In Your Opinion, Who was/is the Greatest Military Commander of All-Time?
Plutarch
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And explain why.
I may be going with the conventional norm here but I have to say Alexander the Great. I heard that he never lost a battle in his life. Regardless, the amount of accomplishments he made in such a short amount of time is very impressive.
Erwin Rommel (yes he was technically a "? " but apparently he was against ? and ? and ended up dying for it), Napoleon, Benedict Arnold (traitorous but still good), Hannibal, Ghengis Kahnn, Spartacus, and Caesar are all notables I respect.
On the other hand, ? , George Washington?, Marcus Junius Brutus, and a lot of French dudes were known for thier failures.
I may be going with the conventional norm here but I have to say Alexander the Great. I heard that he never lost a battle in his life. Regardless, the amount of accomplishments he made in such a short amount of time is very impressive.
Erwin Rommel (yes he was technically a "? " but apparently he was against ? and ? and ended up dying for it), Napoleon, Benedict Arnold (traitorous but still good), Hannibal, Ghengis Kahnn, Spartacus, and Caesar are all notables I respect.
On the other hand, ? , George Washington?, Marcus Junius Brutus, and a lot of French dudes were known for thier failures.
Comments
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Shaka Zulu
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bornnraisedoffCMR wrote: »Shaka Zulu
damn beat me to it....oh well....Master P lol -
Khalid Bin Walid
or
Genghis Khan -
Khalid Bin WalidbornnraisedoffCMR wrote: »Shaka Zulu
will definitely read up on these guys because sadly I don't know to much about them. I blame American schools. -
50 cent....
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----Tutmosis III
Qin Shi Huangdi
maybe Cyrus of achaemenid -
the guy who was the brains behind genghis khan's military operations: Subutai.
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Genghis Khan without question.......2nd I give to Alexander the Great, although he just used his father's army really well.
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@My_nameaintearl wrote: »the guy who was the brains behind genghis khan's military operations: Subutai.
He was good but Genghis was the one with the charisma and intelligence to bring everyone together. -
KING DAVID
Sun TZU
Hannibal Barca
Shaka Zulu
Alexander the Great
Julius Cesar
Toussaint Louverture
Vo Nguyen Giap
Georgi Zhukov
Chief Sitting Bull
Robert E Lee
Gangis Khan -
well, guys, the correct answer is Saladin.I may be going with the conventional norm here but I have to say Alexander the Great.Erwin Rommel (yes he was technically a "? " but apparently he was against ? and ? and ended up dying for it), Napoleon, Benedict Arnold (traitorous but still good), Hannibal, Ghengis Kahnn, Spartacus, and Caesar are all notables I respect.On the other hand, ? -bornnraisedoffCMR wrote: »Shaka Zulu@My_nameaintearl wrote: »the guy who was the brains behind genghis khan's military operations: Subutai.waterproof wrote: »Vo Nguyen Giapwaterproof wrote: »Georgi Zhukovwaterproof wrote: »Chief Sitting Bullwaterproof wrote: »Robert E Lee
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well, guys, the correct answer is Saladin.
also a good selection
Rommel's overrated on this list (probably Spartacus too) and Arnold probably doesn't have enough to compare
? shouldn't even qualify as all he did was meddle
also very good, but i think he gets beaten out by otherwise-mentioned people
also a good selection
overrated
not in the same caliber as the rest
as a military commander? no
overrated, especially on any list that neglects Grant
you are the first person i heard say Robert E. Lee is overated, i know some say Stonewall Jackson might of been better, but why you believe Robert E. Lee, General Giap is overrated and why you feel the Zhukov is not in the same class as Patton, Mcauthur, Ike, Marshall, Mao Zedong, The desert Fox, Yamamoto ect.. and why you think Grant is a top military minded general -
Toussaint L'Ouverture deserves another mention. He took on Napoleon's armies and made Haiti the first independent slave state ever in 1804. Napoleon at the time had the most powerful empire in the world, and Toussaint's armies eventually defeated them. Doesn't get more impressive than that. Toussaint is on Waterproof's avy.
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waterproof wrote: »you are the first person i heard say Robert E. Lee is overated, i know some say Stonewall Jackson might of been better, but why you believe Robert E. Lee, General Giap is overrated and why you feel the Zhukov is not in the same class as Patton, Mcauthur, Ike, Marshall, Mao Zedong, The desert Fox, Yamamoto ect.. and why you think Grant is a top military minded general
I've heard some people say that Nathan Bedford Forrest (who would later be one of the first members of the KKK) was the most brilliant Confederate General in the Civil War. I don't really know enough to say. All I know is that the south got sonned into oblivion so any of those rebel ? had room for improvement. -
shootemwon wrote: »I've heard some people say that Nathan Bedford Forrest (who would later be one of the first members of the KKK) was the most brilliant Confederate General in the Civil War. I don't really know enough to say. All I know is that the south got sonned into oblivion so any of those rebel ? had room for improvement.
LOL!!!!!!! i dont give a ? about they ? either but they know war....Abe should of hung Robert E Lee for treason and not accpeting his offer to join the union -
kingblaze84 wrote: »Toussaint L'Ouverture deserves another mention. He took on Napoleon's armies and made Haiti the first independent slave state ever in 1804. Napoleon at the time had the most powerful empire in the world, and Toussaint's armies eventually defeated them. Doesn't get more impressive than that. Toussaint is on Waterproof's avy.
Toussaint L'Ouverture dies in French custody in 1803. He never fought Napoleon. He only fought the French from 1789 to 1793 when the Governor of Haiti abolished slavery and for a few months in 1802. Though the Governor exceeded his authority when the French revolution abolished all slavery in French controlled lands the act became permanent. When the French issued this decree Toussaint switch his allegiances from Spain back to the French.
This switch dramatically increased his enemies. The Spanish were on his border. Most of his former comrades did not follow him when he switched sides and the British took this opportunity to land 4000 troops on his doorstep. Toussaint drove the Spaniards out and bottle the British up in the port they had landed at. Eventually most that remain sided with the Spaniards return to support Toussaint. From 1794 to 1801 Haiti remained a french colony with Toussaint declaring himself a loyal French subject. With the rise of Napoleon France attempted to reassert it authority in Haiti, Toussaint had made treaties with French enemies which went against French wishes, sending 20,000 troops.
Toussaint response was to destroy the ports burn the central plains and retreat to the mountains trusting that disease would decimate the French. Unfortunately mis-communication had some ports destroyed while others allowed the French access. With the French on haiti soil several monthes of inconclusive engagements followed until Toussaint negotiated a peace that included his promise to retire. Betrayed a few weeks later Toussaint was arrested and sent to France.
It was Jean-Jacques Dessalines who then lead Haitian forces and eventually defeated the French. He placed himself in charge changed the name of the land to Haiti, declared it an all black nation, forbade whites from owning land, and then forcibly put people to work on the plantations. Dessalines image would be rehabilitated in the 20th century however he was assassinated in 1806 and reviled for effectively returning people to slavery. -
Toussaint L'Ouverture dies in French custody in 1803. He never fought Napoleon. He only fought the French from 1789 to 1793 when the Governor of Haiti abolished slavery and for a few months in 1802. Though the Governor exceeded his authority when the French revolution abolished all slavery in French controlled lands the act became permanent. When the French issued this decree Toussaint switch his allegiances from Spain back to the French.
This switch dramatically increased his enemies. The Spanish were on his border. Most of his former comrades did not follow him when he switched sides and the British took this opportunity to land 4000 troops on his doorstep. Toussaint drove the Spaniards out and bottle the British up in the port they had landed at. Eventually most that remain sided with the Spaniards return to support Toussaint. From 1794 to 1801 Haiti remained a french colony with Toussaint declaring himself a loyal French subject. With the rise of Napoleon France attempted to reassert it authority in Haiti, Toussaint had made treaties with French enemies which went against French wishes, sending 20,000 troops.
Toussaint response was to destroy the ports burn the central plains and retreat to the mountains trusting that disease would decimate the French. Unfortunately mis-communication had some ports destroyed while others allowed the French access. With the French on haiti soil several monthes of inconclusive engagements followed until Toussaint negotiated a peace that included his promise to retire. Betrayed a few weeks later Toussaint was arrested and sent to France.
It was Jean-Jacques Dessalines who then lead Haitian forces and eventually defeated the French. He placed himself in charge changed the name of the land to Haiti, declared it an all black nation, forbade whites from owning land, and then forcibly put people to work on the plantations. Dessalines image would be rehabilitated in the 20th century however he was assassinated in 1806 and reviled for effectively returning people to slavery.
Yeah I know Toussaint himself never fought Napoleon (I read a book on him just last month) but he did fight French forces, along with Spaniards and some British (always or usually won). I just said his forces fought Napoleon's forces. Toussaint's discipline and bravery rubbed off on the Haitian military, and that military would remain strong enough to kick Napoleon's ass.
Good post though, and Dessalines doesn't get enough credit. -
waterproof wrote: »LOL!!!!!!! i dont give a ? about they ? either but they know war....Abe should of hung Robert E Lee for treason and not accpeting his offer to join the union
Hanging Robert E. Lee would have been a bad idea, as much as I truly hate the son of a ? . Lee was still very popular in the south, and hanging him probably would have created guerrilla warfare in the south. Americans don't fight guerrilla wars very well, as Afghanistan proves. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »Hanging Robert E. Lee would have been a bad idea, as much as I truly hate the son of a ? . Lee was still very popular in the south, and hanging him probably would have created guerrilla warfare in the south. Americans don't fight guerrilla wars very well, as Afghanistan proves.
......Because if my memomry is correct, i believe it was on the history channel on one of their Civil War shows and they was saying that ABE wanted every confederate general after the war to be brought to Washington to be charged with Treason and some he wanted hanged.. He had a liking to Robert E Lee because Lee was One of Abe's Frst Choice to lead the Union Troops since Lee wasnt Pro Slavery, but Lee was pro State and he went with his state, So Abe thought about hanging them southern generals.
Yeah U.S aint built for Guerilla Warfare Giap in Vietnam taught U.S. a good lesson on that, Im reading up on Toussaint Louverture right now and he's one of the brilliant mind in tatical war the world ever known for picking out the weakness of the other forces and exposing them. There's a lot of Black Military men in history that dont get the mention on greatest list. That's why i put him with, King David, Shaka and Hannibal even Ramese II was a good war general. -
great posts guys. lots of knowledge being dropped here...kingblaze84 wrote: »Hanging Robert E. Lee would have been a bad idea, as much as I truly hate the son of a ? . Lee was still very popular in the south, and hanging him probably would have created guerrilla warfare in the south. Americans don't fight guerrilla wars very well, as Afghanistan proves.
or Vietnam...
Edit: oh, just read waterproof's post. Yeah, Vietnam dealt a pretty sharp blow to America's ego. -
waterproof wrote: »you are the first person i heard say Robert E. Lee is overated, i know some say Stonewall Jackson might of been better-waterproof wrote: »but why you believe Robert E. Lee, General Giap is overratedwaterproof wrote: »-and why you feel the Zhukov is not in the same class as Patton, Mcauthur, Ike, Marshall, Mao Zedong, The desert Fox, Yamamoto ect..waterproof wrote: »and why you think Grant is a top military minded generalkingblaze84 wrote: »Toussaint L'Ouverture deserves another mention. He took on Napoleon's armies and made Haiti the first independent slave state ever in 1804. Napoleon at the time had the most powerful empire in the world, and Toussaint's armies eventually defeated them. Doesn't get more impressive than that. Toussaint is on Waterproof's avy.shootemwon wrote: »I've heard some people say that Nathan Bedford Forrest (who would later be one of the first members of the KKK) was the most brilliant Confederate General in the Civil War.waterproof wrote: »Yeah U.S aint built for Guerilla Warfare Giap in Vietnam taught U.S. a good lesson on that
01. North Vietnam did not have stunning success MILITARILY winning the war. a good comparison is Dien Bien Phu versus Khe Sanh: Giap absolutely shamed the French at the former, but could not defeat the US at the latter. offensives like Tet and Easter were more casualty-causing failures than successes (especially Tet). now you can defend him on some counts (different rank for Khe Sanh and/or "didn't mean to capture it," for example), but i wouldn't say it's accurate to say he bested the US ... militarily.
02. consider that Giap oversaw the PAVN, which was a conventional military. people often understate the North Vietnamese military side of the equation, which makes guys like Giap look better, but the fact is that we weren't just talking about guerrilla warfare. -
Nobody mentioned Patton or Hannibal.
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The King of Kings and Lord of Lords of Course. He destroys with the word of His mouth. All who oppose Him will be crushed without Him breaking a sweat. Plus He is undefeated on the battle field. And all who trust in Him will also ride on white steads in victory at the end of this age. Do you know Him?
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Maximus Rex wrote: »Nobody mentioned Patton or Hannibal.
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DoUwant2go2Heaven? wrote: »The King of Kings and Lord of Lords of Course. He destroys with the word of His mouth. All who oppose Him will be crushed without Him breaking a sweat. Plus He is undefeated on the battle field. And all who trust in Him will also ride on white steads in victory at the end of this age. Do you know Him?
Are you talking about Jesus? He never fought battles, and if you are talking about spiritual battles, his own followers still whine about Satan's "mighty power" until this very day......some winner he is. And by the way, there are more Muslims and Hindus worldwide than Christians. I guess Mohammed and Krishna are the winner of spiritual wars than.