LOOKS LIKE ITS A WRAP FOR GHADAFFI (Tripoli falling, Qadaffi fleeing w/ sons?)
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i guess i should repeat myself. "you might not like to spend the money for that reason as much as OTHER reasons --it's totally fine to prioritize-- but that's also not the same thing as "no good reason."" i admit that DID save me some time.
i don't expect you to give America credit for anything, as your internet identity is 100% tied up in being an anti-American rebel. but shouldn't you want America to spend money fixing other countries since you're moving out of here as soon as you make those millions of dollars here in America?
whoops, looks like you accidentally found that good reason
i'd love it if you realized that we all understood your argument as stated
wait, do you? because you said we didn't have to get involved... but you also said we were the backbone of NATO...
and if it could NOT have been, is the answer really "? the rebels, let Gaddafi beat them?"
because here is LITERALLY the argument you would be making right now if that happened: "see, America can get involved when they want to steal IRAQ'S OIL or AFGHANISTAN'S ... POMEGRANATES, but when they have a chance to do an unselfish thing, they let Gaddafi win. WHY DOESN'T AMERICA CARE ABOUT LIYBA?!"
you might as well run with the BLOOD FOR OIL internet thing because the actual steady theme between your posts on Libya is "America = always bad"
I'm not anti-American and I never said America is always bad. There are many great things about this country, no one would deny that (ok maybe some would). But I know the American govt is not on my side, it is on the side of corporations and big business. Everyone else is cannon fodder, ask yourself why the fed reserve gives trillions to big business at zero percent interest and why social security and other govt programs are about to get cut due to "low funding", lmao. Why cant the govt give out those trillions to states and cities that REALLY need the money? Our govt is corrupt as ? , come on man I know what's going on. **Jay-Z voice** you sound a little naive in them articles that you wrote
Our foreign policy is not much better, and I have little problem admitting that. It's no coincidence most Americans, 73%, think America is on the wrong track now. 73% dog.....73 ? percent.
I'm not anti-American, I just know where my priorities are.....here at home. -
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^lol ghaddafi been talking about that since the early 90's and little has happened....he talked one hell of a game but in reality was a fraud.........
most his props came from being anti-western....... -
Think what you like...building a gold currency to match the dollar and euro cannot be a simple task. Say what you want about ghaddafi, but he was more willing to work with Africans than any European or Arabic nation.
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MSNBC just reported that Ghadafi was on an arabic tv station vowing to fight NATO to the death.
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if gaddafi was so pro-black, why was he accepting money from berlusconi to help keep Africans out of Europe?
dude was a fraud and lots of fake afrocentrics online who get their worldview from youtube conspiracy videos are caping for him now that he's taking an L -
Berlusconi wanted illegals out of his nation and to stop coming in, since when is keeping illegals out of one's nation a bad thing lol
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i'm still trying to figure out what countries are on this listone_manshow wrote: »Adds another country to the list that the U.S goes into and steals resources from...
too tired to search for a good quote right now, but come on, this statement here seems very contrary to some of your most angry hyperbolekingblaze84 wrote: »I'm not anti-American and I never said America is always bad.
well, look, honestly, i'd rather talk about Libya in the Libya thread instead of the Fed in EVERY damn thread. but let me state this a different way: the point is that while it's perfectly fine and good and necessary to question the government and criticize the government, it makes your criticism suspect when your position is ALWAYS "the US is no good at all times." i can come back to my general "there is NO government free of selfish interests" sentiment if you like.kingblaze84 wrote: »But I know the American govt is not on my side, it is on the side of corporations and big business. Everyone else is cannon fodder, ask yourself why the fed reserve gives trillions to big business at zero percent interest and why social security and other govt programs are about to get cut due to "low funding", lmao.
general statements like that don't mean much because you can have a left-wing progressive who hates war and a right-wing reactionary who hates Obama both telling you that "America is on the wrong track now" for reasons that are completely different and not necessarily related to foreign policy.kingblaze84 wrote: »Our foreign policy is not much better, and I have little problem admitting that. It's no coincidence most Americans, 73%, think America is on the wrong track now. 73% dog.....73 ? percent.
i think this is why i've been saying that i get the argument of "i'd rather focus on the US than foreign nations with our dollars," but i don't get claiming there was NO reason to help in Libya.kingblaze84 wrote: »I'm not anti-American, I just know where my priorities are.....here at home.
Chavez should, because even now he's taking current events as a reason to defend Gaddafi and rail against the US/NATO/whoever. for a man who claims to have all this respect for the people, he certainly seems to care much more about his buddy Gaddafi. i am not surprised.kingblaze84 wrote: »I will say this though, Chavez and Ahmadinejad must be VERY nervous right now.
also, i just want to point out that many people on this forum were ranting how we'd be at war with Iran YEARS ago. where are these posters now? -
Said it before and I'll say it again: That panAfrican currency conspiracy is not convincing
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I find it odd that we were hearing about this everyday about two or three months ago, we stop hearing, then I literally woke up on Monday morning and the news was talking about those ? was at Mommar's door.
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i'm still trying to figure out what countries are on this list
too tired to search for a good quote right now, but come on, this statement here seems very contrary to some of your most angry hyperbole
well, look, honestly, i'd rather talk about Libya in the Libya thread instead of the Fed in EVERY damn thread. but let me state this a different way: the point is that while it's perfectly fine and good and necessary to question the government and criticize the government, it makes your criticism suspect when your position is ALWAYS "the US is no good at all times." i can come back to my general "there is NO government free of selfish interests" sentiment if you like.
general statements like that don't mean much because you can have a left-wing progressive who hates war and a right-wing reactionary who hates Obama both telling you that "America is on the wrong track now" for reasons that are completely different and not necessarily related to foreign policy.
i think this is why i've been saying that i get the argument of "i'd rather focus on the US than foreign nations with our dollars," but i don't get claiming there was NO reason to help in Libya.
Chavez should, because even now he's taking current events as a reason to defend Gaddafi and rail against the US/NATO/whoever. for a man who claims to have all this respect for the people, he certainly seems to care much more about his buddy Gaddafi. i am not surprised.
also, i just want to point out that many people on this forum were ranting how we'd be at war with Iran YEARS ago. where are these posters now?
It doesn't make one anti-American to criticize the worst of American policies. MLK Jr criticized many of America's policies, ESPECIALLY our never ending wars. MLK Jr told the truth when he said "America is the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today". That's not an anti-American belief, it's a legitimate opinion. And I have plenty of evidence to back me up. MLK Jr also said the same things I'm saying in this thread, we are quick to spend money to ? and destroy, and extremely hesitant to spend money to build up our infrastructure and our poor/middle class. When America is in dire straits the way it is now, sorry, there is NO solid reason to help these rebels. Let other nations who are not in two wars help, I'm sure the Libyans would understand. Again, if 73% of Americans think the nation is on the wrong track, something is very wrong, regardless of one's political affiliation or position.
As far as Iran, I will give Obama credit, he's the main reason I believe America hasn't fought Iran. Republicans would have bombed Iran to hell if Mccain won in 2008. -
Maximus Rex wrote: »I find it odd that we were hearing about this everyday about two or three months ago, we stop hearing, then I literally woke up on Monday morning and the news was talking about those ? was at Mommar's door.
Why did you stop hearing about it? There have been reports in the news every day for the last six months. -
Jonas.dini wrote: »Why did you stop hearing about it? There have been reports in the news every day for the last six months.
LOL I was just about to say this. -
What killed me in this whole Libyan thing is the blatant hyprocrisy of the Nation of Islam, i.e. Louis Farrakhan. Farrakhan is one of the first people to point out these ? up political alliances that the U.S. have with various ? up political dictators; however, if the ? up totalitarian dictator is somebody you're cool with, was trying to give you a billion dollars and supports you and your cause, suddenly all of those human rights violations don't seem to mean anything.
I heard Farrakhan on a 98.7 KISS FM a few weeks ago actually coming to the defense of and being an apologist for Gaddafi. Minister Farrakhan was saying how Khadfi raised literacy rates, provided nationalized healthcare, and just improved the overall quality of life of the average Libyan. Personally, I was like this ? . I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Why is wrong for the U.S. to support brutal and corrupt regimes, but it isn't for the Nation. To paraphase Georgeous Dre from the great film documentary "American ? ," "If it's wrong here, it's wrong every where."
That's another thing that had me ? in the game concerning Farrkhan and his defense of Quady, what Farrakhan was doin that Sunday morning, if we was doing that on Libyan radio, he would've been possibly arrested, tortured, or even killed. Personally, I'd happily trade of f nationalized medicine for freedom of the press, assembly, religion, and speech.
Another question I would have for Minister Farrakhan, how great can an society be if they can't pick their leader? You're not saying that a country should have the same leader for forty years are you? -
Lets see what will happen to America aka Babylon at the hand of Iran aka Biblical Medes.... Also many other nations will be joined up with Iran/Medes such as Russia, China, North Korea etc against Babylon aka America.
Isaiah 13:13-22
King James Version (KJV)
13Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
14And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.
15Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.
16Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.
17Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.
18Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the ? ; their eyes shall not spare children.
19And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when ? overthrew ? and Gomorrah.
20It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.
21But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there.
22And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged.
America definitely is an empire and it certainly is a borderline evil one.....America's arrogance, as Martin Luther King Jr said, will be its downfall. -
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Foreign Minister Franco Frattini of Italy said on state television on Monday that the Italian oil company Eni “will have a No. 1 role in the future” in the North African country.
We all know why they invaded Libya, the imperialistic rule of Africa continues. -
Maximus Rex wrote: »What killed me in this whole Libyan thing is the blatant hyprocrisy of the Nation of Islam, i.e. Louis Farrakhan. Farrakhan is one of the first people to point out these ? up political alliances that the U.S. have with various ? up political dictators; however, if the ? up totalitarian dictator is somebody you're cool with, was trying to give you a billion dollars and supports you and your cause, suddenly all of those human rights violations don't seem to mean anything.
I heard Farrakhan on a 98.7 KISS FM a few weeks ago actually coming to the defense of and being an apologist for Gaddafi. Minister Farrakhan was saying how Khadfi raised literacy rates, provided nationalized healthcare, and just improved the overall quality of life of the average Libyan. Personally, I was like this ? . I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Why is wrong for the U.S. to support brutal and corrupt regimes, but it isn't for the Nation. To paraphase Georgeous Dre from the great film documentary "American ? ," "If it's wrong here, it's wrong every where."
That's another thing that had me ? in the game concerning Farrkhan and his defense of Quady, what Farrakhan was doin that Sunday morning, if we was doing that on Libyan radio, he would've been possibly arrested, tortured, or even killed. Personally, I'd happily trade of f nationalized medicine for freedom of the press, assembly, religion, and speech.
Another question I would have for Minister Farrakhan, how great can an society be if they can't pick their leader? You're not saying that a country should have the same leader for forty years are you?
This whole post is full of ? , sit down brother your mind has clearly been decimated by the propaganda you see in the media. -
i have some evidence that you did not read my post before responding. let me quote that post:kingblaze84 wrote: »It doesn't make one anti-American to criticize the worst of American policies.
"it's perfectly fine and good and necessary to question the government and criticize the government"
so i guess you missed that part?
again, "i think this is why i've been saying that i get the argument of "i'd rather focus on the US than foreign nations with our dollars," but i don't get claiming there was NO reason to help in Libya." there are things that no nation BUT the US can do that were done to support the rebels in this conflict. so in some respects it sounds like the real argument should be "other nations should have footed the bill for the US to do that stuff." maybe so.kingblaze84 wrote: »When America is in dire straits the way it is now, sorry, there is NO solid reason to help these rebels. Let other nations who are not in two wars help, I'm sure the Libyans would understand.
still, "removing Gaddafi so that Libyans can have some say in their government" is a solid reason even if you would prioritize differently.
...unless the reason it's 73% is that if you ask enough people, they will all claim SOME reason that America's "on the wrong track," even if no individual opinion as to why is in the majoritykingblaze84 wrote: »Again, if 73% of Americans think the nation is on the wrong track, something is very wrong, regardless of one's political affiliation or position.
an absolutely ridiculous opinion. you had posters on this site guaranteeing that we'd be fighting Iran "soon" back in 2004. so let's not act like we were about to attack Iran and Obama stopped it.kingblaze84 wrote: »As far as Iran, I will give Obama credit, he's the main reason I believe America hasn't fought Iran. Republicans would have bombed Iran to hell if Mccain won in 2008. -
i have always gotten the impression that Farrakhan is not a great supporter of variation in leadershipMaximus Rex wrote: »Another question I would have for Minister Farrakhan, how great can an society be if they can't pick their leader? You're not saying that a country should have the same leader for forty years are you?
good thing Italy invaded Libya! wait...Foreign Minister Franco Frattini of Italy said on state television on Monday that the Italian oil company Eni “will have a No. 1 role in the future” in the North African country. We all know why they invaded Libya, the imperialistic rule of Africa continues.
also, what kind of invasion has no ground troops? meh -
http://www.voltairenet.org/spip.php?page=liste-article&id_article=171174&lang=en&date_debut=&date_fin=&var_mode=recalcul
NATO carnage in Tripoli
by Thierry Meyssan
From Tripoli, Thierry Meyssan reports on the carnage he is witnessing. Article posted on Monday, at 0:35 AM.
Voltaire Network | Tripoli (Libya) | 21 August 2011
On Saturday, 20 August 2011, at 8:00 PM, that is to say just after the Iftar, the breaking of the Ramadan fast, the Atlantic Alliance launched "Operation Mermaid Dawn."
The Sirens were the mosque loud speakers which were used to launch Al Qaeda’s call to revolt against the Gaddafi government. Immediately, rebel "sleeper cells" went into action. Organized in small, highly mobile, groups, they carried out multiple attacks. The overnight combats left 350 dead and 3000 wounded.
The situation stabilized on Sunday during the course of the day.
A NATO ship docked near Tripoli unloaded heavy weapons and disembarked Al Qaeda jihadi forces, supervised by NATO officers.
The fighting started on Sunday night, reaching a rare degree of violence. NATO drones and aircraft kept bombarding in all directions. NATO helicopters strafed civilians in the streets with machine guns to clear the way for the jihadis.
In the evening, a motorcade of official cars carrying top government figures came under attack. It pulled into the Rixos Hotel where the foreign press is based. NATO did not dare to bomb the hotel to avoid killing its own journalists. Nevertheless the hotel, which is where I am staying, is now under heavy fire.
At 11:30 PM, the Ministry of Health could only announce that the hospitals were full to overflowing. By early evening there were 1300 additional dead and 5000 wounded.
NATO has been entrusted by the Security Council to protect civilians. In reality, France and the UK have just re-started their colonial massacres.
Monday, 1:00 AM: Khamis Qaddafi came to the Rixos Hotel personally to deliver weapons for the defense of the hotel. He then left. There is now heavy fighting all around the hotel.
Thierry Meyssan -
RT NATO Blew a hole through Tripoli.
Journalist says that the Rebels are the real threat. -
The war crimes committed by NATO will never be prosecuted.
less than half of the tribes in Libya supports the Transitional National Council. To say that Libya is divided is an understatement.
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Interesting that there are two entirely different narratives out there on libya.
RT is having a loud voice on this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhoGNlWsObg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O35_Ai6EsMU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HbbTNpsjo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKR_psM-Y4E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y34-kJbSNQE