What's up everybody! Just a quick message. We will be relaunching AllHipHop.com with the goal of keeping the community front and center. I have worked with Jamal and select moderators, to make sure The Illl Community's needs are being addressed as we evolve. We are encouraging you to use the new platform.

We will NOT be closing the current community, but we will be porting user data over to the new system over time, so please get used to using the new community!

We will be working on it every single day until it's exactly what you want!

Please feel free to join now, test, as we are in beta:

https://www.allhiphop.com

why was jay-z such a late bloomer?

13

Replies

  • Me1971Me1971 Posts: 232 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    BoYBe$T wrote: »
    look at o.g. juan (chasinbenjamins) and ty ty (Me1971) in here defending jigga ....

    niggas popping up with fresh acounts out the blue giving posts like they jigga's right hand and shit ....

    Im not defending Jay Z, it's just I have a vast knowledge of hip hop in general so I would try to correct the thread starter even if he said something innacurate about Waka Flaka lol. Im not taking sides, I just don't like misinformation.
  • CainCain The audacity of you fuck niggas Cyttorax DimensionPosts: 44,542 Regulator
    edited September 2011
    Word nas aint went plat since 04 while jay z is on his 12th #1 album and wtt will go plat

    Jiggas "peers" are way behind in this rap shit

    They are either washed,irrelevant or cant sell half of what he sells now

    Longevity>>>>>>Dropping a classic at age 20


    I'm a Nas fan but I still cosign
    I mod without feelings or remorse.


    Just been through it all man
    Blood sweat and tears
    Niggaz is dead and shit
    What the fuck else can happen yo?
    I dont think much more son, word to mother yo
    We done seen it all, and been through it all yo
    Let y'all niggaz know right now
    Word to mother, for real, for real
    I aint ever goin back
  • Kwan DaiKwan Dai Posts: 6,929 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    Word nas aint went plat since 04 while jay z is on his 12th #1 album and wtt will go plat

    Jiggas "peers" are way behind in this rap shit

    They are either washed,irrelevant or cant sell half of what he sells now

    Longevity>>>>>>Dropping a classic at age 20


    You have to realize that your criteria is, going to be different then others.i can accept your criteria being sales and mainstream relevance although, I don't agree with it. My criteria is rhyming ability and I certainly do not believe for one minute that Jay has surpassed his peers in this category.
  • Treize117Treize117 Posts: 1,112
    edited September 2011
    Last i checked its kind of hard to drop an album without a deal...
  • MorganFreemanKingMorganFreemanKing Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    Treize117 wrote: »
    Last i checked its kind of hard to drop an album without a deal...

    right.... niggas had to do it themselves then and couldnt even get a deal until after RD dropped
    King Of The South = Gold Medalist @ the Special Olympics
  • KeepinItHundredKeepinItHundred Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    this thread isn't about relevancy or jay-z's buisness skills or bank account. we know all of that already, thats obvious. but if we go by relevancy and sales, then eminem has always been better than jay-z since 1999. but anyway...

    this thread is about why was jay-z such a late bloomer.
  • KeepinItHundredKeepinItHundred Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    Me1971 wrote: »
    Don't most rappers follow trends to stay relevant? Was Jay going out his way to do tracks with Akon, T-Pain, Lil Mo or whoever when it was the trendy thing to do? Look at Em, he raps on more southern sounding beats now and he did a collab with Rhianna which seems to be the industry standard, isn't he hoping on a trend? You ever notice how Nas was following the flashy trend from 96-2001, a trend that people swore Jay monopolized. Ya'll not giving him enough credit for his risk taking, you guys are overlooking things out of biasdness. People don't remember that Jay put out a classic album with two relatively unknown producers doing a majority of the production (Kanye and Just Blaze), those dudes definitely weren't indemand at the time (they weren't even signed). The Blueprint sound changed the sound of hip hop for a while because then other groups started putting they're spin on the soulful sound; who came after them, the Diplomats with the Heatmakers, Terror Squad with the early Cool N Dre Production ect ect. Jay even had the Hitmen produce a large majority of the American Gangster album, what trend was he following with that? Was Roc Boy's a trendy record? Was Kingdom Come a trendy album? The dude was like the first rapper to do songs with Chris Martin. There wasn't even a mainstream hip hop realease that year (2007) that sounded like American gangster.....and it was succesful. He featured UGK on Big Pimping, that wasn't trendy (for the time). What trend was he hoping on with Can I Get A with putting Amil and unknown Ja Rule on the track? or Nigga What Nigga Who when he featured Jaz-O on the track?

    nothing to do with why jay was a late bloomer
  • thesynthesisthesynthesis Posts: 9,230 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    nas dont bandwagon whatever is hot and jack styles
  • thesynthesisthesynthesis Posts: 9,230 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    JokerzWyld wrote: »
    Because Jay-Z is not an artist, he is an imitator. He has to wait for a trend to develop so he can follow it. He observes a formula and then he applies it. He sees who's hot in the game and he latches on to them for success.

    Case & Point:

    The criminal tales Jay-Z was spittin on Reasonable Doubt wasn't his lane previous to that album. "I Can't Get With That" nor "Da Graveyard" were anything like "D'Evils". It's not until you heard stuff like G Rap's "4, 5, 6", Raekwon's "Only Built 4 Cuban Linx" etc, did you hear him follow suit. Nas did the same, however, What makes him different from so many others was that he was invited into it. He was on G Rap's album, as well as AZ's "Doe Or Die" on "Mo Money, Mo Murder, Mo Homocide" which began The Firm. Jay just jumped in like he was everybody else.

    Diddy was dancin' around all dumb with bright videos and flashy gimmicks so Jay-Z made "Sunshine". Ruff Ryders came around and started deadin' that shiny suit shit and Jay-Z released "Money Cash Hoes" ft. DMX. When Hot Boys got play in 99, Jay invited Juvenile to do the hoot on "Snoopy Track". So on and so forth. To answer your question Jay-Z adapts to the times by emulating whatever is popular. He doesn't create anything. So it's not that he's a late bloomer, he just needs something popular to feed off of.

    thread shud have been closed after this post
  • KeepinItHundredKeepinItHundred Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    If jay is a late bloomer so is em,big pun,50,dmx and kanye west

    All have classics,most have multiple #1 albums all have sold mad records and made good music

    Seems like u desperately nitpickin even tho your premise got shitted on

    And nas made a song wit lil john in 03 which is following who's hot cuz lil john trash music ran the clubs and radio in 2003

    my premise never got shitted on. i didn't ask who else came into the game late, or if any other late blooming emcee's dropped classics, you added that. i asked why was jay-z, who is so "godly and great and unfuckwitable" such a late bloomer. why did he need to watch niggas come up and soak styles up? nas did a song with lil john to put the brave hearts on, it;s not on any of his albums, nor did he ever do a crunk song on any of his albums.
  • KeepinItHundredKeepinItHundred Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    If jay is a late bloomer so is em,big pun,50,dmx and kanye west

    All have classics,all (except big pun) have multiple #1 albums all have sold mad records and made good music

    Seems like u desperately nitpickin even tho your premise got shitted on

    And nas made a song wit lil john in 03 which is following who's hot cuz lil john trash music ran the clubs and radio in 2003

    "Trend follower" who has no business doin songs wit lil john

    Nas also got kanye production after jigga,made a collab album after jigga,got eminem production after jigga

    But yea nobody else do that shit but jay z

    Lmao reason posters stay losin

    nas did the firm colab album in 1997
    i believe kanye west produced poppa was a playa, which was suppossed to come out 1999, not sure.
    jay-z got premo and dr.dre production after nas, and so what?
    still doesn't explain why jay was a late bloomer.
  • SionSion Moderator, Legion of Trill, AHH Content Producer, AHH Editor Posts: 45,664 Regulator
    edited September 2011
    Somehow he starts late but always comes in first place. I think them other niggas was just more fortunate. A lot of those niggas who had all those big records fell off or been able keep generating the interest they did back then consistently. Nothing wrong with being a late bloomer, for some ppl it just takes longer than others to come up. What he lost (or could have gained) in youth he definitely gained in experience tho which helped him out a great deal, he was able to see how niggas like Jaz, Big Daddy Kane & others were working BEHIND the scenes where record deals and things were signed. It also helped that he had Dame & Biggs, he may not have been the key guy in the managing of artists on his label but ud be hating if u said he aint learn a thing. Most artists sacrifice things like their masters (look at Big & Puff's case although true say Big did croak) in order to stay/get signed Hov took his.

    Niggas didn't wanna sign him cuz he wasnt like Nas, Big, Pac, Wu, Busta, the infamous, snoop, redman, etc. dont matter tho cuz look at where he is now.....
    IC Moderator and AHH Editor

    http://community.allhiphop.com/categories/site-help

    ^^^ If you need anything go here

    jono wrote: »
    This is the folly of the internet. Its become a bastion of misinformation, rumors, conspiracies and propaganda. A place where a person with no face or name can make accusations at any time with no verification or credentials and brainwash a small segment of people.
    T. Sanford wrote: »
    Message to the trills of the IC: May Legion Of Trill be your enemies downfall
  • south4lifesouth4life Bama Repesenta! Posts: 9,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    Because Record labels didn't want nothing to do with Jay-Z.
    That was the reason why they started Roc-A Fella, nobody was fucking with Jay.
    Then when Pac and Big died, he started getting the looks.
    MY SQUADS

    MIAMI HEAT - 2006, 2012 & 2013 NBA Champions
    NEW ORLEANS SAINTS - 2010 XLIV Super Bowl Champions
    ALABAMA CRIMSON TIDE - 2010, 2012 & 2013 BCS National Champions, 2015 CFB Champions

  • SionSion Moderator, Legion of Trill, AHH Content Producer, AHH Editor Posts: 45,664 Regulator
    edited September 2011
    If jay is a late bloomer so is em,big pun,50,dmx and kanye west

    All have classics,all (except big pun) have multiple #1 albums all have sold mad records and made good music

    Seems like u desperately nitpickin even tho your premise got shitted on

    And nas made a song wit lil john in 03 which is following who's hot cuz lil john trash music ran the clubs and radio in 2003

    "Trend follower" who has no business doin songs wit lil john

    Nas also got kanye production after jigga,made a collab album after jigga,got eminem production after jigga

    But yea nobody else do that shit but jay z

    Lmao reason posters stay losin

    Good post fam, I almost forgot that Yeezy started late too, niggas think Fif came in and blew the fuck up but aint see wen he was on Columbia/Full Clip records & released 2 albums b4 GRODT. Nigga was struggling hes been dropped, kicked down & had to start from stratch b4 GRODT. I don't see what difference it makes to his claim of being 'Godly, Great & unfuckwitable' if he aint blew up earlier, nigga is still top 2 most successful rappers of all time. Every great man in history at some point was small, & most great men in history even down to Napoleon watched & learned b4 they got their start & look where they are today....

    I don't like Jay-Z but got dayum only on the Reason will niggas come up & say some shit like Jay is a loser cuz he started later than others LOLOL SMH.
    IC Moderator and AHH Editor

    http://community.allhiphop.com/categories/site-help

    ^^^ If you need anything go here

    jono wrote: »
    This is the folly of the internet. Its become a bastion of misinformation, rumors, conspiracies and propaganda. A place where a person with no face or name can make accusations at any time with no verification or credentials and brainwash a small segment of people.
    T. Sanford wrote: »
    Message to the trills of the IC: May Legion Of Trill be your enemies downfall
  • JokerzWyldJokerzWyld Fazer o que você gosta é liberdade. Gostar do que você faz é felicidade Chocolate CityPosts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    nas did the firm colab album in 1997
    i believe kanye west produced poppa was a playa, which was suppossed to come out 1999, not sure.
    jay-z got premo and dr.dre production after nas, and so what?
    still doesn't explain why jay was a late bloomer.

    Good post. There so much more to say but there's no point wasting it on a troll.
    "Our mistake, the mistake we Africans made, was to have forgotten that the enemy never withdraws sincerely. He never understands. He capitulates, but he does not become converted

    Our mistake is to have believed that the enemy had lost his combativeness and his harmfulness" Frantz Fanon


    31-drapetomania.jpg
  • smoothballa81smoothballa81 Posts: 157
    edited September 2011
    This is not the same exact thing. But, I got two good late bloomers for you. Even though this was not their first releases. Marvin Gaye's 12th album at Age 31 was ''What's Going On?'' And Prince at age 26 in 1984 his 6th album was ''Purple Rain''

    Rather be a late bloomer and be a legend instead of have on great album early and live off of that.
  • KeepinItHundredKeepinItHundred Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    This is not the same exact thing. But, I got two good late bloomers for you. Even though this was not their first releases. Marvin Gaye's 12th album at Age 31 was ''What's Going On?'' And Prince at age 26 in 1984 his 6th album was ''Purple Rain''

    Rather be a late bloomer and be a legend instead of have on great album early and live off of that.

    you bodied your own argument number one
    2. that doesn't explain why jay was a late bloomer
    sionb55 had a legit post though.
  • JokerzWyldJokerzWyld Fazer o que você gosta é liberdade. Gostar do que você faz é felicidade Chocolate CityPosts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    This is not the same exact thing. But, I got two good late bloomers for you. Even though this was not their first releases. Marvin Gaye's 12th album at Age 31 was ''What's Going On?'' And Prince at age 26 in 1984 his 6th album was ''Purple Rain''

    Rather be a late bloomer and be a legend instead of have on great album early and live off of that.

    Good ones. Motown was afraid to take a chance on Marvin's "What's Going On?", but now it's viewed as his magnum opus by many. Did his 40th anniversary edition of "What's Going On?" drop yet?
    "Our mistake, the mistake we Africans made, was to have forgotten that the enemy never withdraws sincerely. He never understands. He capitulates, but he does not become converted

    Our mistake is to have believed that the enemy had lost his combativeness and his harmfulness" Frantz Fanon


    31-drapetomania.jpg
  • smoothballa81smoothballa81 Posts: 157
    edited September 2011
    JokerzWyld wrote: »
    Good ones. Motown was afraid to take a chance on Marvin's "What's Going On?", but now it's viewed as his magnum opus by many. Did his 40th anniversary edition of "What's Going On?" drop yet?

    Yup, And the shit still sounds brand new. And ''What's Going On'' is considered by many to be the best album ever made in music history. Its up for argument. But, sometimes it takes time to find who you are.

    When Marvin Gaye made What's Going On it's the equivalent of Trey Songz making a introspective deep album. Marvin Gaye was seen as a sex symbol and just a pretty boy who had a good voice. Dude became a visionary and one of the most important artist in the history of music after that album.


    So, It took Jay a time to find himself. He found his groove and moved on. But, honestly I think Reasonable Doubt is overrated and I think The Blueprint is his true magnum opus and he was 31 when that came out.
  • Kwan DaiKwan Dai Posts: 6,929 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    This is not the same exact thing. But, I got two good late bloomers for you. Even though this was not their first releases. Marvin Gaye's 12th album at Age 31 was ''What's Going On?'' And Prince at age 26 in 1984 his 6th album was ''Purple Rain''

    Rather be a late bloomer and be a legend instead of have on great album early and live off of that.

    Those are poor examples. Prince and Marvin Gaye both had very good success as artists before these break out albums. Prince was able to Play 15+ instruments before the age of 20 while having songs that charted. Little Red Corvette, 1999 as, well Chaka Khan remaking "I feel for you". Marvin had recorded #1 hits for Motown before what's going on and was an established artist. Jayz had no such success before RD which, didn't drop with any fan fair or anticipation.
  • 2Fresh2def2Fresh2def Posts: 935 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    does it really matter why he was a late bloomer.... everybody is so concerned with instant success, well think about this for a min, all the niggas yall comparing him to who had instant success and instant classics..... where are they in their carrers cuz im willing to bet that they are not doing as well as he is and im not just talking bout sales either im talking overall hes doing better, so at the end of the day does it matter when he bloomed cuz i could give a rats ass if i were him
  • Kwan DaiKwan Dai Posts: 6,929 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    2Fresh2def wrote: »
    does it really matter why he was a late bloomer.... everybody is so concerned with instant success, well think about this for a min, all the niggas yall comparing him to who had instant success and instant classics..... where are they in their carrers cuz im willing to bet that they are not doing as well as he is and im not just talking bout sales either im talking overall hes doing better, so at the end of the day does it matter when he bloomed cuz i could give a rats ass if i were him

    Why does it matter where is now? Some of those artists had there runs in the genre. So, will Jayz. So, while you may not be talking about his sales, you are at least attempting to point out his fame and riches. As, I said, Jayz has not surpassed his peers Lyrically, or creatively.
  • CirocObamaCirocObama Posts: 3,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    25 ,26 we talkin bout a matter of months who cares they still were similar in age

    I read the 1st sentence then stopped cuz it was some bullshit plus duke wack and I dont read essays from wack niggas

    Well Jay-Z was about to turn 27 when his joint dropped. Also The Documentary was supposed to come out when Game was 24 but it got pushed back due to legal shit with Ruthless Records and Eazy-E's wife amongst other things.

    Well you should read it cuz dude was spitting the same truth i've been saying. Still Jay-Z has dope records here and there but let's keep it real if y'all wanna be real. I remember i was one of the only niggas who pointed out the whole Juvenile argument on the IC a while ago.
  • Kwan DaiKwan Dai Posts: 6,929 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    I dint wna be ignorant but fine..... Cuz he was selllin crack gtn money in da streets derlic, dats why! While pussies like nas nd albert aka twinkle toes was in ballet class nd lookin out they window, so of course they had time to hit a studio nd spit tales bout other ppls lives, lol, cuz them nigz dont know wut crack cook rite look like... Maybe if he wasnt knee deep in da streets he wudda came out as a teen too..

    Forget being ignorant. You are so misinformed it's pathetic.
  • CirocObamaCirocObama Posts: 3,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2011
    I dint wna be ignorant but fine..... Cuz he was selllin crack gtn money in da streets derlic, dats why! While pussies like nas nd albert aka twinkle toes was in ballet class nd lookin out they window, so of course they had time to hit a studio nd spit tales bout other ppls lives, lol, cuz them nigz dont know wut crack cook rite look like... Maybe if he wasnt knee deep in da streets he wudda came out as a teen too..

    Boring troll. Get a new hobby.
Sign In or Register to comment.