Why Don't People Want Usher To Grow Up??

2

Comments

  • Mrslim1
    Mrslim1 Members Posts: 2,614 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2010
    Well, he should make an album with good content that doesn't bore us to death. Here I Stand just wasn't good to me. I often go and listen to it again when someone says it was a great album, but I still have the same opinion. He shouldn't go with club bangers either. There can be a happy medium, i.e Maxwell.

    Usher is not as MUSICALLY talented as Maxwell. Maxwell always made a sophisticated brand of music. Urban Hang Suite was made by a 23 year old Maxwell. Usher is looking for hits , Maxwell is making music that comes from the heart and stands the test of time. Usher cant do what Maxwell does he aint that good
  • quietaskept
    quietaskept Members Posts: 333 ✭✭
    edited April 2010
    Mrslim1 wrote: »
    Usher is not as MUSICALLY talented as Maxwell. Maxwell always made a sophisticated brand of music. Urban Hang Suite was made by a 23 year old Maxwell. Usher is looking for hits , Maxwell is making music that comes from the heart and stands the test of time. Usher cant do what Maxwell does he aint that good

    lol
    Yeah I know, but I just mentioned Maxwell to say it is possible that music can be made with both content and excitement.
  • Mrslim1
    Mrslim1 Members Posts: 2,614 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2010
    lol
    Yeah I know, but I just mentioned Maxwell to say it is possible that music can be made with both content and excitement.

    Oh ok . Well if Usher actually was a songwriter I think he could do both. A true artist has integrity and because Usher has 0 songwriting ability and musical talent outside of singing , he is just a puppet waiting for a team of songwriters to write him a hit.
  • blackrain
    blackrain Members, Moderators Posts: 27,269 Regulator
    edited April 2010
    Mrslim1 wrote: »
    Oh ok . Well if Usher actually was a songwriter I think he could do both. A true artist has integrity and because Usher has 0 songwriting ability and musical talent outside of singing , he is just a puppet waiting for a team of songwriters to write him a hit.

    you know how many great singers didn't write their own songs...if you got that attitude then I guess you discount the artistic integrity of the majority of Motown artist cuz few of them wrote their own music...and as far as Usher it's not that he got married cuz women had no issue when he was dating Chilli...it's who he got married to that ? his career up...his female fans turned on him cuz they didn't approve of the woman he married...if he married Chilli Here I Stand woulda sold millions too
  • Mrslim1
    Mrslim1 Members Posts: 2,614 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2010
    blackrain wrote: »
    you know how many great singers didn't write their own songs...if you got that attitude then I guess you discount the artistic integrity of the majority of Motown artist cuz few of them wrote their own music...and as far as Usher it's not that he got married cuz women had no issue when he was dating Chilli...it's who he got married to that ? his career up...his female fans turned on him cuz they didn't approve of the woman he married...if he married Chilli Here I Stand woulda sold millions too

    But main different between the Motown artist and artist like Usher is that even though the Temptaions etc didn't write alot of songs , they were musically inclined , they played instrument , harmonized etc . Marvin Gaye was in the house band for Motown before he got his break. I know that Holland Dozier Holland wrote alot of material for the those acts but those acts also were able to write their own material , read the music they were given etc. You give Usher a piece of sheet music he will ? in his pants With that Motown artist still wrote more than Usher did
  • blackrain
    blackrain Members, Moderators Posts: 27,269 Regulator
    edited April 2010
    Mrslim1 wrote: »
    But main different between the Motown artist and artist like Usher is that even though the Temptaions etc didn't write alot of songs , they were musically inclined , they played instrument , harmonized etc . Marvin Gaye was in the house band for Motown before he got his break. I know that Holland Dozier Holland wrote alot of material for the those acts but those acts also were able to write their own material , read the music they were given etc. You give Usher a piece of sheet music he will ? in his pants With that Motown artist still wrote more than Usher did

    and how do you know Usher doesn't know music? You been in the studio with him? You really think all this time he's been making music he hasn't picked up ANY musical talent?
  • Mrslim1
    Mrslim1 Members Posts: 2,614 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2010
    blackrain wrote: »
    and how do you know Usher doesn't know music? You been in the studio with him? You really think all this time he's been making music he hasn't picked up ANY musical talent?

    Do you listen to his music at all ? A person with musical talent , real musical talent wouldn't make these mediocre ass songs like he does. Have you ever heard of an Usher produced track ? Usher has been in the game or years and I am sure by this time he should have some type of artistic freedom. If you can find a clip of him playing an instrument or a hit that he has written let me know . But you are right I dont know for sure . If he does and he is coming up with this bs that makes him even more weak.
  • blackrain
    blackrain Members, Moderators Posts: 27,269 Regulator
    edited April 2010
    Mrslim1 wrote: »
    Do you listen to his music at all ? A person with musical talent , real musical talent wouldn't make these mediocre ass songs like he does. Have you ever heard of an Usher produced track ? Usher has been in the game or years and I am sure by this time he should have some type of artistic freedom. If you can find a clip of him playing an instrument or a hit that he has written let me know . But you are right I dont know for sure . If he does and he is coming up with this bs that makes him even more weak.

    @ the bolded..exactly you're going off you're own speculation...im sure certain artist you love aren't the best writers or producers either...I listen to alot of music and people with musical talent make ? songs all the time, it's called trying to appeal to the public (and yes Usher's female fan base is to blame for that)...there's artists I love that have made songs I think are ? terrible but there's no denying their talent...Alicia Keys makes amazing music, writes and produces it, but there's some ? songs in her catalouge as well...
  • Mrslim1
    Mrslim1 Members Posts: 2,614 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2010
    blackrain wrote: »
    @ the bolded..exactly you're going off you're own speculation...im sure certain artist you love aren't the best writers or producers either...I listen to alot of music and people with musical talent make ? songs all the time, it's called trying to appeal to the public (and yes Usher's female fan base is to blame for that)...there's artists I love that have made songs I think are ? terrible but there's no denying their talent...Alicia Keys makes amazing music, writes and produces it, but there's some ? songs in her catalouge as well...

    The artist I like write and produce music. My favorite singer Maxwell writes and produces. He wrote and produced Pretty Wings 9 years ago and it is better than any song Usher has ever made lyrically and musically. I lean more toward artist such as Curtis Mayfield , EWF , KEM , Marvin Gaye , Stevie Wonder , Sade etc . So I am in the music part of it. As far as the A. Keys reference, even though as a fan of music I would like her to go deeper in her talent pool with her songs. Her worst songs , whatever you think they maybe have more musical value than anything that Usher can make.
  • blackrain
    blackrain Members, Moderators Posts: 27,269 Regulator
    edited April 2010
    Mrslim1 wrote: »
    The artist I like write and produce music. My favorite singer Maxwell writes and produces. He wrote and produced Pretty Wings 9 years ago and it is better than any song Usher has ever made lyrically and musically. I lean more toward artist such as Curtis Mayfield , EWF , KEM , Marvin Gaye , Stevie Wonder , Sade etc . So I am in the music part of it. As far as the A. Keys reference, even though as a fan of music I would like her to go deeper in her talent pool with her songs. Her worst songs , whatever you think they maybe have more musical value than anything that Usher can make.

    I never said they didn't...you're so caught up on saying "so and so is better"...when that's not even the argument...the point is pretty much every artist has song/s that some part of their fan base will say "Why the ? did they make that song?"...
  • Mrslim1
    Mrslim1 Members Posts: 2,614 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2010
    blackrain wrote: »
    I never said they didn't...you're so caught up on saying "so and so is better"...when that's not even the argument...the point is pretty much every artist has song/s that some part of their fan base will say "Why the ? did they make that song?"...

    I can agree with that statement to an extent . Where i disagree with it is , if you have a fanbase that is musically inclined even though they might not like a certain song from their favorite artist , they can understand what the artist is trying to do and give that artist the room for growth and experiment. But artst in the mold of Usher who are making music for the hit not specifically for the quality always have a tough time keeping their so called fans because the less musically inclined fans tend to be more fical
  • rapmastermind
    rapmastermind Members Posts: 5,574 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2010
    Listen, for this generation, Usher has made Forever music but yes he's not Marvin or Michael. And Yes, I would put Maxwell over him musically. But that doesn't mean Usher isn't the ? cause he is. He's the type of RnB artist that has the potenial to be with the greats. I do think he needs to stop with the generic/formula type of RnB. He needs to dig deep like he did on "Confessions" and pour more soul into his art. Yes "Here I Stand" had elements of that maturity but the songs weren't strong enough. He better get his act together though or his catalog will suffer for it. Like I said, I wouldn't say Justin stole his thunder but "Future Sex" >>> The last 2 Usher albums easily, musically, everything.
  • Mrslim1
    Mrslim1 Members Posts: 2,614 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2010
    Listen, for this generation, Usher has made Forever music but yes he's not Marvin or Michael. And Yes, I would put Maxwell over him musically. But that doesn't mean Usher isn't the ? cause he is. He's the type of RnB artist that has the potenial to be with the greats. I do think he needs to stop with the generic/formula type of RnB. He needs to dig deep like he did on "Confessions" and pour more soul into his art. Yes "Here I Stand" had elements of that maturity but the songs weren't strong enough. He better get his act together though or his catalog will suffer for it. Like I said, I wouldn't say Justin stole his thunder but "Future Sex" >>> The last 2 Usher albums easily, musically, everything.

    But thats my point Confessions which is arguably Usher's best work , He didnt write anything on it. The songwriters were able to tap into his emotions because of the things he was going thru at the time, however that his hard to do consistently. If he wrote and played like a Justin Timberlake he wold be able to to put his heart and soul on every track even if they aren't his best songs.
  • blackrain
    blackrain Members, Moderators Posts: 27,269 Regulator
    edited April 2010
    Mrslim1 wrote: »
    I can agree with that statement to an extent . Where i disagree with it is , if you have a fanbase that is musically inclined even though they might not like a certain song from their favorite artist , they can understand what the artist is trying to do and give that artist the room for growth and experiment. But artst in the mold of Usher who are making music for the hit not specifically for the quality always have a tough time keeping their so called fans because the less musically inclined fans tend to be more fical

    fans have to allow an artist to grow...if that growth doesn't translate into record sales then it's back to the old formula...this is the music BUSINESS and it's about selling records at the end of the day
  • Mrslim1
    Mrslim1 Members Posts: 2,614 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2010
    blackrain wrote: »
    fans have to allow an artist to grow...if that growth doesn't translate into record sales then it's back to the old formula...this is the music BUSINESS and it's about selling records at the end of the day

    It is about sales. But maybe i am naive but I think if your formula is making quality music you will no doubt have longevity . Your sales may not go diamond , but you will still have such a strong following you will be able to sell out shows for the rest of your life because your fans have such a deep connection with your music .
  • Miltown Marauder
    Miltown Marauder Members Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2010
    Listen, for this generation, Usher has made Forever music but yes he's not Marvin or Michael. And Yes, I would put Maxwell over him musically. But that doesn't mean Usher isn't the ? cause he is. He's the type of RnB artist that has the potenial to be with the greats. I do think he needs to stop with the generic/formula type of RnB. He needs to dig deep like he did on "Confessions" and pour more soul into his art. Yes "Here I Stand" had elements of that maturity but the songs weren't strong enough. He better get his act together though or his catalog will suffer for it. Like I said, I wouldn't say Justin stole his thunder but "Future Sex" >>> The last 2 Usher albums easily, musically, everything.

    Is this joke? DEEP? CONFESSIONS?? That was one of the most poppiest albums he ever created...well I haven't heard the new one, but there's not a deep song on that whole album.
  • blackrain
    blackrain Members, Moderators Posts: 27,269 Regulator
    edited April 2010
    Mrslim1 wrote: »
    It is about sales. But maybe i am naive but I think if your formula is making quality music you will no doubt have longevity . Your sales may not go diamond , but you will still have such a strong following you will be able to sell out shows for the rest of your life because your fans have such a deep connection with your music .

    It used to be like that, that's why so many older artists can continue to tour off songs they made 2-3 decades ago...but most artists today won't have that longevity...look at an artist like The Dream, he's popular now but I can't honestly see somebody 20 years from now saying "You remember that song Shawty Is a 10, that was a classic back in the day" lol
  • Punisher__
    Punisher__ Members Posts: 3,031 ✭✭
    edited April 2010
    blackrain wrote: »
    It used to be like that, that's why so many older artists can continue to tour off songs they made 2-3 decades ago...but most artists today won't have that longevity...look at an artist like The Dream, he's popular now but I can't honestly see somebody 20 years from now saying "You remember that song Shawty Is a 10, that was a classic back in the day" lol

    Most artists today won't have that longevity because they're not making timeless music. The Dream doesn't make timeless music; he makes music for the charts.

    Usher is better than what he's putting out...but, like The Dream, he's choosing to release material that's congruent with the Billboard charts. And that's going to hurt him, in the grand scheme of things.

    At this point in his career, Usher really shouldn't be concerned about record sales...because he's already proven to a big seller. His primary concern now should be releasing classics...not pop fluff.

    When does it stop being about record sales?
  • blackrain
    blackrain Members, Moderators Posts: 27,269 Regulator
    edited April 2010
    Punisher__ wrote: »
    Most artists today won't have that longevity because they're not making timeless music. The Dream doesn't make timeless music; he makes music for the charts.

    Usher is better than what he's putting out...but, like The Dream, he's choosing to release material that's congruent with the Billboard charts. And that's going to hurt him, in the grand scheme of things.

    At this point in his career, Usher really shouldn't be concerned about record sales...because he's already proven to a big seller. His primary concern now should be releasing classics...not pop fluff.

    When does it stop being about record sale
    s?

    When labels stop needing money to produce albums...it's always been about record sales...if Usher or insert artist here doesn't sell albums then he doesn't get to make any music...
  • Punisher__
    Punisher__ Members Posts: 3,031 ✭✭
    edited April 2010
    blackrain wrote: »
    When labels stop needing money to produce albums...it's always been about record sales...if Usher or insert artist here doesn't sell albums then he doesn't get to make any music...

    Once you reach a certain level of success, it has to stop being about sales.

    For a new artist, I'd understand...because you're still trying to get label support, and the more label support you have, the greater chances you'll have to be able to take artistic risks.

    But someone like Usher, who has been in the game for over a decade, has too much clout within the industry already to be a puppet to his label.

    This is my problem with Mariah Carey. She's been in the industry for 20 years, sold records, and topped every chart imaginable. But she's still trying to be that blockbuster seller...and her material has suffered because of it.

    You're either going to sell records or make classics. The latter is how artists build their legacy.
  • blackrain
    blackrain Members, Moderators Posts: 27,269 Regulator
    edited April 2010
    Punisher__ wrote: »
    Once you reach a certain level of success, it has to stop being about sales.

    For a new artist, I'd understand...because you're still trying to get label support, and the more label support you have, the greater chances you'll have to be able to take artistic risks.

    But someone like Usher, who has been in the game for over a decade, has too much clout within the industry already to be a puppet to his label.

    This is my problem with Mariah Carey. She's been in the industry for 20 years, sold records, and topped every chart imaginable. But she's still trying to be that blockbuster seller...and her material has suffered because of it.

    You're either going to sell records or make classics. The latter is how artists build their legacy.

    In theory you're right and I agree with you, it SHOULD be that way...but since producing, promoting, and recording records takes alot of money, sales will always be at the forefront of an artists goals...plus given the fact that fans seem to get even more fickle as times goes on and doesn't like to see artists change or grow, it's only gonna increase...the age group Usher and Mariah Carey could be appealing to don't buy records, so they appeal to those who do and that's teenagers...the reason an artist like Toni Braxton sold 10 million albums in the 90's is because older people brought her albums...older people aren't buying albums so they aren't being catered to by musicians or record labels
  • Miltown Marauder
    Miltown Marauder Members Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2010
    I think Usher's fanbase longevity plan to latch on the teen demographic continuously, girl 1 at 16 loves usher,ect. as girl 1 gets older and probably out grows Usher, he still has her little sister to become a fan, and the cycle continues and continues. It's no doubt that he's had crazy longevity, but at being 30+ you can't spin and breakdance all of that foolishness like you were in your teens-20's.
  • boat1580
    boat1580 Members Posts: 200
    edited May 2010
    well usher isn't the only over 30 making pop music as stated earlier (fyi, he's 32 this year). mariah carey, jennifer lopez, and the list goes on.

    but the whole point is that his music sucks now, his whole sound has changed completely. ? is not usher, it just isn't.i remember when i first heard that song i was a little surprised,just another case of another artist trying to stay relevant by jumping on the pop bandwagon. i'm sure usher himself is aware of this. to me ever since he broke up with chili his music hasn't been the same
  • quietaskept
    quietaskept Members Posts: 333 ✭✭
    edited May 2010
    boat1580 wrote: »
    well usher isn't the only over 30 making pop music as stated earlier (fyi, he's 32 this year). mariah carey, jennifer lopez, and the list goes on.

    but the whole point is that his music sucks now, his whole sound has changed completely. ? is not usher, it just isn't.i remember when i first heard that song i was a little surprised,just another case of another artist trying to stay relevant by jumping on the pop bandwagon. i'm sure usher himself is aware of this. to me ever since he broke up with chili his music hasn't been the same

    ? is a cool song, but I won't listen to it because like you said its not Usher. Has anyone heard the entire album? What do you think?
  • mrjun18
    mrjun18 Members Posts: 207
    edited May 2010
    the real question is why won't usher grow up?