Aaliyah vs. Brandy - Who is more of an icon?

2

Comments

  • Pun1sher
    Pun1sher Members Posts: 424
    edited October 2011
    sboogie wrote: »
    I'm no expert on r7b record sales...
    so u tell me who was in her lane...
    MJB was the Queen, Aaliyah was the princess...
    there is a lot of revisionist history on the internet... that chick was/is beloved in the streets and industry...
    cats also forget she was doing movies too...

    Brandy and Monica both outsold Aaliyah, when they were at their peaks...and charted more hits.

    In terms of "in demand" status...it would go Brandy, then Monica, then Aaliyah.

    If Mary's the Queen, then Brandy is the Princess.
  • Pun1sher
    Pun1sher Members Posts: 424
    edited October 2011
    The fact that Drake and J. Cole, neither of whom are R&B artists are directly influenced by Aaliyah, speaks volumes of Aaliyah's legacy. She was sampled by artists just shortly after One In A Million was released. She's also been listed as an influence of Rihanna. She's even been cited as an influence on Brandy (see Afrodisiac). Keri Hilson and Ciara are also obvious offsprings of Aaliyah.

    Brandy's record sales and arguably her voice>>>>> Aaliyah, but one could make a good argument that Aaliyah's more of an icon musically.

    I've never heard nor seen Rihanna imply that Aaliyah was a direct influence on her and her career. Perhaps you're willing to provide proof of this claim...?

    Here's Rihanna, speaking on the influence Brandy had on her when she was recording GGGB, however...

    "Brandy's Afrodisiac album really helped to inspire that as well, because that album I listen to all day, all night. When I was in the studio that was the album that I listened to all the time and I really admired that every song was a great song. You could listen to the entire album. And I was like, ''You know what? I have to make an album like this.''
    http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20043298,00.html
  • Pun1sher
    Pun1sher Members Posts: 424
    edited October 2011
    sboogie wrote: »
    man, Aaliyah made some joints...
    I can't throw on a random Brandy joint that bangs like Aaliyah joints...
    I just thru on Pandora and this came on:man this ? is heat....
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
  • Pun1sher
    Pun1sher Members Posts: 424
    edited October 2011
    sboogie wrote: »
    lets agree to disagree....

    What's there to disagree with?
  • TRILLip Brooks
    TRILLip Brooks Members Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    neither, if aaliyah was alive she'd be ciara
  • georgia boi
    georgia boi Members Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    Pun1sher wrote: »
    I've never heard nor seen Rihanna imply that Aaliyah was a direct influence on her and her career. Perhaps you're willing to provide proof of this claim...?

    Here's Rihanna, speaking on the influence Brandy had on her when she was recording GGGB, however...

    "Brandy's Afrodisiac album really helped to inspire that as well, because that album I listen to all day, all night. When I was in the studio that was the album that I listened to all the time and I really admired that every song was a great song. You could listen to the entire album. And I was like, ''You know what? I have to make an album like this.''
    http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20043298,00.html

    "What came next would completely change the face of R&B music. We talk to Craig Kallman, who decided to introduce Aaliyah to little known producer-writer duo Timbaland and Missy Elliott. Artists such as Sway, Brenmar and Ny reflect on how the relationship between Timbaland and Aaliyah has affected the way they write music. Here we learn how the risks Aaliyah took to experiment with pop music have influenced the biggest artists of today such as Rihanna and Katy B."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b015bddr

    It's also fitting that Rihanna cited the Brandy album that many critics compared to Aaliyah albums as inspiration:

    "Brandy's exciting fourth disc, Afrodisiac, is the best Aaliyah album that Aaliyah never made. Indeed, it sounds like a follow-up to the stellar self-titled CD released by Aaliyah before her death in a plane crash in 2001"

    http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20150459,00.html
  • booty-gif-dot-com
    booty-gif-dot-com Members Posts: 1,357 ✭✭
    edited October 2011
    Pun1sher wrote: »
    Just exactly what type of impact did One In a Million have on the game? Let's get a little more into specifics...

    And to my recollection, it was What's the 411 that made what was hip hop and what was r&b completely indistinguishable...not One in a Million...

    Mary's uptempo songs fused 80's Break beat hip hop and then threw some Keyboards on top to smooth it out and then add Mary's Passionate Chaka Khan/Aretha Franklin-esque Yonkers Around The Way Girl vibe to it and yes you did have something fresh and original. like REAL LOVE the beat is Top Billin By Audio 2 and its a classic! The Difference is that when Mary sung Ballads it wasnt a Rap and R&B hybird. The tune Love Without A limit On that album is the NOT HIP HOP its R&B with a jazz fill to it.. or SLow Down. They were all conventional R&B on the ballads.

    AALIYAH on the other hand singing One In A Million is a BALLAD and it feels and bumps like a RAP RECORD! Timbaland was inspired by British Trip Hop Music from artist like PortisHead that are not known in the states but are big in the UK. Timbo didnt sample 80's Famous Breakbeats he programmed his Trippy double time sound scapes and the sampling he did do was from random sounds. The background on One In A Million has the sound of CRICKETS.. On Are You That Somebody Its sound of a Babys voice!!

    This was all in 1996. and it was Ground Breaking! Other future hip hop ballads learned from it and got hits too like Usher singing Nice and Slow which was 1998.
    One In A million is MONUMENTAL!
  • Pun1sher
    Pun1sher Members Posts: 424
    edited October 2011
    "What came next would completely change the face of R&B music. We talk to Craig Kallman, who decided to introduce Aaliyah to little known producer-writer duo Timbaland and Missy Elliott. Artists such as Sway, Brenmar and Ny reflect on how the relationship between Timbaland and Aaliyah has affected the way they write music. Here we learn how the risks Aaliyah took to experiment with pop music have influenced the biggest artists of today such as Rihanna and Katy B."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b015bddr

    It's also fitting that Rihanna cited the Brandy album that many critics compared to Aaliyah albums as inspiration:

    "Brandy's exciting fourth disc, Afrodisiac, is the best Aaliyah album that Aaliyah never made. Indeed, it sounds like a follow-up to the stellar self-titled CD released by Aaliyah before her death in a plane crash in 2001"

    http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20150459,00.html

    Again...did Rihanna say that she was influenced by Aaliyah? Or is that something that was just assumed by critics that like to bestow impact on Aaliyah that doesn't exist due to pity?
  • Pun1sher
    Pun1sher Members Posts: 424
    edited October 2011
    Mary's uptempo songs fused 80's Break beat hip hop and then threw some Keyboards on top to smooth it out and then add Mary's Passionate Chaka Khan/Aretha Franklin-esque Yonkers Around The Way Girl vibe to it and yes you did have something fresh and original. like REAL LOVE the beat is Top Billin By Audio 2 and its a classic! The Difference is that when Mary sung Ballads it wasnt a Rap and R&B hybird. The tune Love Without A limit On that album is the NOT HIP HOP its R&B with a jazz fill to it.. or SLow Down. They were all conventional R&B on the ballads.

    AALIYAH on the other hand singing One In A Million is a BALLAD and it feels and bumps like a RAP RECORD! Timbaland was inspired by British Trip Hop Music from artist like PortisHead that are not known in the states but are big in the UK. Timbo didnt sample 80's Famous Breakbeats he programmed his Trippy double time sound scapes and the sampling he did do was from random sounds. The background on One In A Million has the sound of CRICKETS.. On Are You That Somebody Its sound of a Babys voice!!

    This was all in 1996. and it was Ground Breaking! Other future hip hop ballads learned from it and got hits too like Usher singing Nice and Slow which was 1998.
    One In A million is MONUMENTAL!

    As a Mary fan, I have to say that I find this post somewhat disrespectful to her.

    Mary's music was not an R&B/Hip Hop hybrid? What was it, exactly? Or better yet, maybe you can explain what "hip hop soul" speaks to as it pertains to her? Looking for loopholes is not going to help you here. To your own admission, if Mary was the first to merge r&b vocals with hip hop backing tracks then, by default, she was the first to blur the lines between the two genres...not Aaliyah.

    "What's the 411?...a stunning album that bridged the gap between R&B and rap in a way that no female singer had before."
    http://www.billboard.com/#/artist/mary-j-blige/bio/43746

    One In a Million was not a groundbreaking album. It was landmark for Aaliyah's career...not for the music industry itself. The synths that you speak of that were prevalent in Aaliyah's music in 1996, was a sound that was already popular in the 80's, with artists like Janet, and Michel'le. In fact, albums like "Control" and "Miche'le" were most likely templates that Timbaland used when he was doing Aaliyah's album...
  • booty-gif-dot-com
    booty-gif-dot-com Members Posts: 1,357 ✭✭
    edited October 2011
    Pun1sher wrote: »
    As a Mary fan, I have to say that I find this post somewhat disrespectful to her..

    Im a HUGE Mary fan too. but you are starting to sound like a Mary "Stan"
    Pun1sher wrote: »
    if Mary was the first to merge r&b vocals with hip hop backing tracks then, by default, she was the first to blur the lines between the two genres...not Aaliyah.

    The first real Soul/Hip Hop Hybird blur was 1984's "I Feel For You" by Chaka Khan. It was a old Prince Song that she she flipped and it samples Stevie Wonders Finger TIps Part 2. and added Grandmster Melle Mel rapping on it. Chaka was experimenting and didnt go to this sound in the future. So realisitcally FEEL FOR YOU is the first Hip Hop Soul record before either GUY, or MARY J or AALIYAH
    Pun1sher wrote: »
    One In a Million was not a groundbreaking album.

    I didnt say One I A million THE ALBUM was ground breaking. I said ONE IN A MILLION THE SINGLE... please dont twist my words. the 411 is a 5 mic undisputed classic and EVERY SONG on there is a Banger its a much better album over all than Aaliyah's Million record thats still strong enough to get about 4.25 off the power of Million and If Your Girl Only Knew Im 36 years old you dont have to lecture me about this stuff. I am a DJ and I know what is and what was good, and what happened.
    Pun1sher wrote: »
    In fact, albums like "Control" and "Miche'le" were most likely templates that Timbaland used when he was doing Aaliyah's album..

    Yes Aaliyah is influenced by Janet stylistically, and vocally and the choegraphy. but the SOUND is nothing alike. Janet's Control. Thats was Janet's INDUSTRIAL period with the big loud Snare drums and Michelle'??? Cmon Son? Aaliyah got nothing in terms of anything relating to her. and Timbo sonically is more influenced by European producers than American and English Trip Hop In particular. I mentioned PortisHead which you apparently dont know anything about!

    I think you twisted my words on this whole thing! heres the real truth!!

    Mary J 91-92 was hugely influential on the Hip Hop/Soul merger for Uptempo Songs that everyone copied

    Aalliyah's work in 1996 with Timbo. redefined the HIP HOP BALLAD that everyone copied

    someone you took it that i was downgrading Mary which is not even remotely true!!
  • Pun1sher
    Pun1sher Members Posts: 424
    edited October 2011
    The first real Soul/Hip Hop Hybird blur was 1984's "I Feel For You" by Chaka Khan. It was a old Prince Song that she she flipped and it samples Stevie Wonders Finger TIps Part 2. and added Grandmster Melle Mel rapping on it. Chaka was experimenting and didnt go to this sound in the future. So realisitcally FEEL FOR YOU is the first Hip Hop Soul record before either GUY, or MARY J or AALIYAH

    Even if what you say here is correct, you're still contradicting yourself. Whether Mary was the first to blur the lines between the two genres, or whether it was Chaka, or Alyson Williams, or Janet...the point is, it wasn't Aaliyah. And that's who you originally gave the credit to which is, obviously, incorrect. And the fact that we can argue about artists from the 80's and early 90's having merged the two, is mere testament to the fact that Aaliyah was only a product of the fusion. She did not start it, she did not revolutionize it, and she did not redefine it.
    I didnt say One I A million THE ALBUM was ground breaking. I said ONE IN A MILLION THE SINGLE... please dont twist my words. the 411 is a 5 mic undisputed classic and EVERY SONG on there is a Banger its a much better album over all than Aaliyah's Million record thats still strong enough to get about 4.25 off the power of Million and If Your Girl Only Knew Im 36 years old you dont have to lecture me about this stuff. I am a DJ and I know what is and what was good, and what happened.

    No lecturing here...just trying to correct you on a few things. Looking for loopholes, like I said, is not going to make your argument any more or less coherent. So you were talking One in a Million, the single...which was a hip hop influenced ballad that you claim everyone followed and Aaliyah started. Who is this "everyone" that you speak of, exactly? Or better yet, can you name an artist post 1996 that was doing something that wasn't already done in 1992, or 1995, or 1989, or 1986?

    Yes Aaliyah is influenced by Janet stylistically, and vocally and the choegraphy. but the SOUND is nothing alike. Janet's Control. Thats was Janet's INDUSTRIAL period with the big loud Snare drums and Michelle'??? Cmon Son? Aaliyah got nothing in terms of anything relating to her. and Timbo sonically is more influenced by European producers than American and English Trip Hop In particular. I mentioned PortisHead which you apparently dont know anything about!

    The sound is nothing alike, because it evolved, with the times. But the formula is STILL very much the same. The synthesized production, which was pretty much the anti-thesis to the sample heavy "hip hop soul", was a popular formula with New Jack Swing in the 80's...which Janet forged the template for.
    Mary J 91-92 was hugely influential on the Hip Hop/Soul merger for Uptempo Songs that everyone copied

    ...including Aaliyah.
  • georgia boi
    georgia boi Members Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    Pun1sher wrote: »
    Again...did Rihanna say that she was influenced by Aaliyah? Or is that something that was just assumed by critics that like to bestow impact on Aaliyah that doesn't exist due to pity?

    She doesn't really have to say that though. It would be different if it was just Aaliyah stans and fans saying Aaliyah is an influence on Rihanna. For example, when T.I. first came out, he didn't say Cool Breeze was one of his influences even though, it's obvious to people familiar with both artists that T.I. is clearly influenced by Cool Breeze stylistically. Aaliyah's influence on Rihanna may not be as obvious, but that's not to say that it it's nonexistent.
  • booty-gif-dot-com
    booty-gif-dot-com Members Posts: 1,357 ✭✭
    edited October 2011
    no sense with arguing with you dude. you hear what you wanna hear and will just keep posting until you feel youve won some argument on a message board. I'll just sum up what I was trying to say in this short burst!!

    Chaka's Feel For You in 1984 was the first real successful hybird of Hip Hop and R&B... GUY starting around late 1988 followed up blending Marley Marl Style Hip Hop Beats, mixed with Doo ? Throwbacks, Gap Band style Soul (Aaron Hall sounds just like Charlie Wilson) and Mixed with a DC area Go Go Swing.. This mash up of Rap, Doo ? , Soul, and Go Go was called NEW JACK SWING!!

    The Mary Project had some of the same influences in Marley Marl-esque Rugged Beats, and Soul Music on top (especially Aretha Franklin and Chaka Khan) and it didnt have the Doo ? harmony or a Go Go swing it hit much harder and blurred what was Hip hop and what was R&B on the uptempo songs. On the Mary Ballads it was traditional R&B

    on the Aaliyah project the Ballads were not traditional. They were just as much Hip Hop as the uptempto songs. They influenced future Hip Hop Ballads like Usher NICE AND SLOW and Kanye and Jaime and Twista on SLOW JAMS!

    so my point all along was that

    Aaliyahs work with Timbo on Hip Hop ballads hadnt been done before!!

    The uptempo Hip Hop/RB blur MARY ALL THE WAY

    The hip Hop ballad. AALIYAH ALL THE WAY

    if you dont believe that then you must live in an alternative universe or so in love with Mary its twisted your rational thinking!!
    Pun1sher wrote: »
    Even if what you say here is correct, you're still contradicting yourself. Whether Mary was the first to blur the lines between the two genres, or whether it was Chaka, or Alyson Williams, or Janet...the point is, it wasn't Aaliyah. And that's who you originally gave the credit to which is, obviously, incorrect. And the fact that we can argue about artists from the 80's and early 90's having merged the two, is mere testament to the fact that Aaliyah was only a product of the fusion. She did not start it, she did not revolutionize it, and she did not redefine it.



    No lecturing here...just trying to correct you on a few things. Looking for loopholes, like I said, is not going to make your argument any more or less coherent. So you were talking One in a Million, the single...which was a hip hop influenced ballad that you claim everyone followed and Aaliyah started. Who is this "everyone" that you speak of, exactly? Or better yet, can you name an artist post 1996 that was doing something that wasn't already done in 1992, or 1995, or 1989, or 1986?




    The sound is nothing alike, because it evolved, with the times. But the formula is STILL very much the same. The synthesized production, which was pretty much the anti-thesis to the sample heavy "hip hop soul", was a popular formula with New Jack Swing in the 80's...which Janet forged the template for.



    ...including Aaliyah.
  • Pun1sher
    Pun1sher Members Posts: 424
    edited October 2011
    no sense with arguing with you dude. you hear what you wanna hear and will just keep posting until you feel youve won some argument on a message board. I'll just sum up what I was trying to say in this short burst!!

    Chaka's Feel For You in 1984 was the first real successful hybird of Hip Hop and R&B... GUY starting around late 1988 followed up blending Marley Marl Style Hip Hop Beats, mixed with Doo ? Throwbacks, Gap Band style Soul (Aaron Hall sounds just like Charlie Wilson) and Mixed with a DC area Go Go Swing.. This mash up of Rap, Doo ? , Soul, and Go Go was called NEW JACK SWING!!

    The Mary Project had some of the same influences in Marley Marl-esque Rugged Beats, and Soul Music on top (especially Aretha Franklin and Chaka Khan) and it didnt have the Doo ? harmony or a Go Go swing it hit much harder and blurred what was Hip hop and what was R&B on the uptempo songs. On the Mary Ballads it was traditional R&B

    on the Aaliyah project the Ballads were not traditional. They were just as much Hip Hop as the uptempto songs. They influenced future Hip Hop Ballads like Usher NICE AND SLOW and Kanye and Jaime and Twista on SLOW JAMS!

    so my point all along was that

    Aaliyahs work with Timbo on Hip Hop ballads hadnt been done before!!

    The uptempo Hip Hop/RB blur MARY ALL THE WAY

    The hip Hop ballad. AALIYAH ALL THE WAY

    if you dont believe that then you must live in an alternative universe or so in love with Mary its twisted your rational thinking!!

    Just as long as you know Mary's the Queen, and Aaliyah isn't...that's all that matters.
  • MonRoch
    MonRoch Members Posts: 73
    edited October 2011
    I am a huge Brandy fan. I also love Aalyiah. i would say neither of them are icons. i will say this though, Brandy has influenced so many people. she has also helped so many people with her music (people using her music to get through relationship problems). right now, Brandy is helping kids who are trying to get in the the business (Majors and Minors show). Brandy has always put out amazing music, and she will do the same with this 6th album comin' up.

    so, it really doesn't matter if Brandy reaches icon status or not (although Brandy is highly praised by many of her peers and upcoming artists), as long as she is giving back to the community what ? gave to her. so you guys don't see it for Brandy's voice, but Brandy ? and many people see that. take care!
  • young chad
    young chad Members Posts: 1,771 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    Wooowww....so ? 's acting like Aaliyah wasn't on top when she passed? Aaliyah as far as RnB chicks goes, was on top, winning Grammy's for soundtrack songs, she had undeniable classics AND she was stepping her movie game up, I truly believe Aaliyah would either be on some Will Smith or AT LEAST LL Cool J type ish with her acting resume right now (which says a LOT about an RnB artist because you really can't name too many chicks that went from multi platinum albums to being A-list actors)...

    Not to mention Aaliyah's impact on 90's fashion was ICONIC, maybe cuz I'm 2 weeks from being 28, I remember how EVERY girl at school wore their hair like Aaliyah and EVERY girl wanted to wear the baggy pants and tube tops or whatever it was. Aaliyah was absolutely revered by her peers and idolized (even before death) by her fans. Gotta remember there weren't a lot of solo rnb chicks who were "entertainers AND singers" at the time Aaliyah died, she was bringing the dancing AND singing to the table...and no she didn't have a particularly strong singing voice, but she mastered that "pillow talk" sound and played her lane perfectly.

    Brandy definitely did her thing in her hay day but to be honest she did a little too much "following" and not enough leading....where as Aaliyah was the total opposite..she set trends, she didn't follow them...and like it or not, the fact that she died did boost her to icon status, sorry
  • Pun1sher
    Pun1sher Members Posts: 424
    edited October 2011
    young chad wrote: »
    Wooowww....so ? 's acting like Aaliyah wasn't on top when she passed? Aaliyah as far as RnB chicks goes, was on top, winning Grammy's for soundtrack songs, she had undeniable classics AND she was stepping her movie game up, I truly believe Aaliyah would either be on some Will Smith or AT LEAST LL Cool J type ish with her acting resume right now (which says a LOT about an RnB artist because you really can't name too many chicks that went from multi platinum albums to being A-list actors)...

    Not to mention Aaliyah's impact on 90's fashion was ICONIC, maybe cuz I'm 2 weeks from being 28, I remember how EVERY girl at school wore their hair like Aaliyah and EVERY girl wanted to wear the baggy pants and tube tops or whatever it was. Aaliyah was absolutely revered by her peers and idolized (even before death) by her fans. Gotta remember there weren't a lot of solo rnb chicks who were "entertainers AND singers" at the time Aaliyah died, she was bringing the dancing AND singing to the table...and no she didn't have a particularly strong singing voice, but she mastered that "pillow talk" sound and played her lane perfectly.

    Brandy definitely did her thing in her hay day but to be honest she did a little too much "following" and not enough leading....where as Aaliyah was the total opposite..she set trends, she didn't follow them...and like it or not, the fact that she died did boost her to icon status, sorry

    Aaliyah has never won a Grammy, first of all. And just what type of trends did she set musically, that wasn't already being done years prior?

    And let's not forget...Brandy went from multi-platinum artist to A-list actor...before Aaliyah did. Lls
  • georgia boi
    georgia boi Members Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    Pun1sher wrote: »
    Aaliyah has never won a Grammy, first of all. And just what type of trends did she set musically, that wasn't already being done years prior?

    And let's not forget...Brandy went from multi-platinum artist to A-list actor...before Aaliyah did. Lls

    Aaliyah as a trendsetter:

    "Following a successful transition to a more mature image, Aaliyah played a major role in popularizing the stuttering, futuristic production style that consumed hip-hop and urban soul in the late '90s. " http://www.allmusic.com/artist/aaliyah-p44722

    LOL @ Brandy being an A-List actor. Back when she was in Double Platinum, Cinderella, and I Still Know What You Did Last Summer, she wasn't A-List. Brandy back when she had big acting roles still wasn't cast in the bigger roles like Halle Berry, Angela Basset, or even Nia Long.
  • Pun1sher
    Pun1sher Members Posts: 424
    edited October 2011
    Aaliyah as a trendsetter:

    "Following a successful transition to a more mature image, Aaliyah played a major role in popularizing the stuttering, futuristic production style that consumed hip-hop and urban soul in the late '90s. " http://www.allmusic.com/artist/aaliyah-p44722

    That isn't trendsetting, considering nobody in here can name the "trend" it actually started. I'm not here for pity quotes from empathetic critics. If we can't name artists that started doing something that wasn't already being done in 1992, or 1986...it's futile. And if we can't name artists, outside of the Tim/Missy/Aaliyah/Ginuwine camp that incorporated similar production techniques into their own music, then it's not as much a "trend" as it something that was just being done amongst the same 2 or 3 artists.
    LOL @ Brandy being an A-List actor. Back when she was in Double Platinum, Cinderella, and I Still Know What You Did Last Summer, she wasn't A-List. Brandy back when she had big acting roles still wasn't cast in the bigger roles like Halle Berry, Angela Basset, or even Nia Long.

    The same applies for Aaliyah...but it's okay for dude to refer to her as "A-list", though, correct?
  • Just2C
    Just2C Members Posts: 931 ✭✭
    edited October 2011
    Alliyah easily. People still talk about her music to this day. Brandy hasnt been poppin since "The Boy Is Mine". aint nobody studying Brandy.
  • georgia boi
    georgia boi Members Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    Pun1sher wrote: »
    That isn't trendsetting, considering nobody in here can name the "trend" it actually started. I'm not here for pity quotes from empathetic critics. If we can't name artists that started doing something that wasn't already being done in 1992, or 1986...it's futile. And if we can't name artists, outside of the Tim/Missy/Aaliyah/Ginuwine camp that incorporated similar production techniques into their own music, then it's not as much a "trend" as it something that was just being done amongst the same 2 or 3 artists.



    The same applies for Aaliyah...but it's okay for dude to refer to her as "A-list", though, correct?

    Isn't it safe to say that since people were either going to Timbaland for the signature sound that he introduced with Aaliyah or biting that sound, that Aaliyah played a part in that trend? Artists outside of just the Timbaland/Missy/Ginuwine circle jumped on that sound whether it was for singles or album cuts.

    As for the acting thing, dude didn't refer to Aaliyah as A-List. He implied that she could have been, if she hadn't died. In fact he compared Aaliyah's acting resume to LL's and he's not an A List actor. Of course, Aaliyah wasn't an A List actor either even though her acting career was just taking off before she died.
  • DRO
    DRO Members Posts: 9,943 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    Monicas voice, face, and body! >>>>>>>>
  • young chad
    young chad Members Posts: 1,771 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    Isn't it safe to say that since people were either going to Timbaland for the signature sound that he introduced with Aaliyah or biting that sound, that Aaliyah played a part in that trend? Artists outside of just the Timbaland/Missy/Ginuwine circle jumped on that sound whether it was for singles or album cuts.

    As for the acting thing, dude didn't refer to Aaliyah as A-List. He implied that she could have been, if she hadn't died. In fact he compared Aaliyah's acting resume to LL's and he's not an A List actor. Of course, Aaliyah wasn't an A List actor either even though her acting career was just taking off before she died.

    Exactly...and the question clearly states who is more of an ICON (not a musical icon)....how are we just going to blatantly deny Aaliyah's trend setting fashion, which, like it or not helps with icon status...when you can change the way an entire generation (even if it's just the minorities) dress based solely on YOUR style...that's setting a trend. Let's not use revisionist history and act like that didn't happen.

    As for acting, again, when Aaliyah died, she was just taking off...."Queen of the Damned" was critically acclaimed and my apologies for the Grammy mistake, I was thinking of her performance of "Journey to the Past" from the Anastasia soundtrack. But yes, I truly believe that she would've climbed the acting ranks and therefore not "fallen off" like say a "Monica" or Brandy. Why you ask? Because neither of them were ever taken seriously for their acting..and when I say that, I mean by the people that matter (casting directors)...people were never running to Brandy or Monica for big time Hollywood productions....Aaliyah was CARRYING movies as the top billed star in actual THEATRICAL released films. (Maybe because I'm into film I understand the impact of this more than some) but to be honest...that goes a HUGE way in insuring you don't "fade" away. When a black artist can successfully go from singing/rapping to being cast in legitimate movies (no not Ja Rule) ..they are usually there to stay. You don't believe me? Look at LL Cool J, Queen Latifa, Mos Def, Will Smith, Ice Cube, Ice T, Bow Wow etc.....all of them started out just like Aaliyah and some even the same time as her, and guess what, none of them have faded. And the thing is, the reason I say Aaliyah probably would've been A-list...is because it took most of those names I listed a LOT longer time to get an A-List role, than it took Aaliyah. She was cast as Nyrobi in the freakin Matrix....let's see what that spawned, hmmm 2 movies AND a video game based around the character. That would've been Aaliyah...and maybe you're not familiar with Hollywood, but when THAT happens...the actor usually gets about 3 more movies just as big offered to them to film back to back so they can all come out around the same time.

    Unless you think it's a coincidence when rising stars appear in 5 blockbuster movies in the span of 2 months...here let me provide proof so that I don't have to be quoted and misunderstood again: Sam Worthington - Terminator, Avatar, Clash of the Titans.....Ryan Gosling - Crazy, Stupid, Love..Drive, Ides of March...only a fool would think that with 2 back to back Matrix Films (The biggest films at that time) Hollywood wouldn't want to capitalize on Aaliyah's star power

    So yes, I believe Aaliyah was on her way to being a "black entertainment icon"...I believe she changed the way girls viewed what was "possible" in this society for them...and I think, in my eyes, and the eyes of many she was more iconic than Brandy (who was on a good ride for a long while but chose to play it safe and didn't blaze any trails)
  • Pun1sher
    Pun1sher Members Posts: 424
    edited October 2011
    young chad wrote: »
    Exactly...and the question clearly states who is more of an ICON (not a musical icon)....how are we just going to blatantly deny Aaliyah's trend setting fashion, which, like it or not helps with icon status...when you can change the way an entire generation (even if it's just the minorities) dress based solely on YOUR style...that's setting a trend. Let's not use revisionist history and act like that didn't happen.

    As for acting, again, when Aaliyah died, she was just taking off...."Queen of the Damned" was critically acclaimed and my apologies for the Grammy mistake, I was thinking of her performance of "Journey to the Past" from the Anastasia soundtrack. But yes, I truly believe that she would've climbed the acting ranks and therefore not "fallen off" like say a "Monica" or Brandy. Why you ask? Because neither of them were ever taken seriously for their acting..and when I say that, I mean by the people that matter (casting directors)...people were never running to Brandy or Monica for big time Hollywood productions....Aaliyah was CARRYING movies as the top billed star in actual THEATRICAL released films. (Maybe because I'm into film I understand the impact of this more than some) but to be honest...that goes a HUGE way in insuring you don't "fade" away. When a black artist can successfully go from singing/rapping to being cast in legitimate movies (no not Ja Rule) ..they are usually there to stay. You don't believe me? Look at LL Cool J, Queen Latifa, Mos Def, Will Smith, Ice Cube, Ice T, Bow Wow etc.....all of them started out just like Aaliyah and some even the same time as her, and guess what, none of them have faded. And the thing is, the reason I say Aaliyah probably would've been A-list...is because it took most of those names I listed a LOT longer time to get an A-List role, than it took Aaliyah. She was cast as Nyrobi in the freakin Matrix....let's see what that spawned, hmmm 2 movies AND a video game based around the character. That would've been Aaliyah...and maybe you're not familiar with Hollywood, but when THAT happens...the actor usually gets about 3 more movies just as big offered to them to film back to back so they can all come out around the same time.

    Unless you think it's a coincidence when rising stars appear in 5 blockbuster movies in the span of 2 months...here let me provide proof so that I don't have to be quoted and misunderstood again: Sam Worthington - Terminator, Avatar, Clash of the Titans.....Ryan Gosling - Crazy, Stupid, Love..Drive, Ides of March...only a fool would think that with 2 back to back Matrix Films (The biggest films at that time) Hollywood wouldn't want to capitalize on Aaliyah's star power

    So yes, I believe Aaliyah was on her way to being a "black entertainment icon"...I believe she changed the way girls viewed what was "possible" in this society for them...and I think, in my eyes, and the eyes of many she was more iconic than Brandy (who was on a good ride for a long while but chose to play it safe and didn't blaze any trails)

    There was nothing groundbreaking, or trendsetting about Aaliyah's fashion. TLC, Mary J. Blige, and the like...were ALL responsible for pioneering that "street but sweet" look, with the baggy clothes, sunglasses, and baseball caps, while managing to keep it feminine...years before Aaliyah did.

    By saying Aaliyah changed the way an entire generation dressed, based solely on her style...you're completely ignoring what Mary and TLC did in 1992. If a car stops on the highway, and another car hits it, then another, and another, and the chain reaction continues. You can't just pick the 4th car, for example, and say that is what caused the accident (teehehe). And if you really wanted to be technical, we can argue that Mary's Northern Urban-city influenced style became the blueprint for artists like Aaliyah...and I can guarantee you, georgia boi, and EVERYONE else in this thread...that there is absolutely NOTHING you can say Aaliyah did in 1994 or 1996, that Mary didn't already do (be it musically or stylistically) in 1992. And that's why Mary has the title...and Aaliyah doesn't.

    Now, moving on...Queen of the Damned was NOT critically acclaimed. That ? was shunned by critics, and even Anne Rice herself dismissed that ? , and didn't support it. So, Aaliyah was the top billed star of ONE movie, that got awful reviews...Brandy carried a sitcom for 6 seasons, which happened to have been one of the highest rated shows with a predominantly African American cast on a major television network. And that in itself is more trendsetting and "iconic", then what Aaliyah did in terms of acting...and that's why, of the two, Brandy's the icon.
  • young chad
    young chad Members Posts: 1,771 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    Pun1sher wrote: »
    There was nothing groundbreaking, or trendsetting about Aaliyah's fashion. TLC, Mary J. Blige, and the like...were ALL responsible for pioneering that "street but sweet" look, with the baggy clothes, sunglasses, and baseball caps, while managing to keep it feminine...years before Aaliyah did.

    By saying Aaliyah changed the way an entire generation dressed, based solely on her style...you're completely ignoring what Mary and TLC did in 1992. If a car stops on the highway, and another car hits it, then another, and another, and the chain reaction continues. You can't just pick the 4th car, for example, and say that is what caused the accident (teehehe). And if you really wanted to be technical, we can argue that Mary's Northern Urban-city influenced style became the blueprint for artists like Aaliyah...and I can guarantee you, georgia boi, and EVERYONE else in this thread...that there is absolutely NOTHING you can say Aaliyah did in 1994 or 1996, that Mary didn't already do (be it musically or stylistically) in 1992. And that's why Mary has the title...and Aaliyah doesn't.

    Now, moving on...Queen of the Damned was NOT critically acclaimed. That ? was shunned by critics, and even Anne Rice herself dismissed that ? , and didn't support it. So, Aaliyah was the top billed star of ONE movie, that got awful reviews...Brandy carried a sitcom for 6 seasons, which happened to have been one of the highest rated shows with a predominantly African American cast on a major television network. And that in itself is more trendsetting and "iconic", then what Aaliyah did in terms of acting...and that's why, of the two, Brandy's the icon.

    Sorry but I don't agree...yes Mary was street (was she sweet?) Yes TLC was loud/bright and a little raunchy...but Aaliyah was more "model" then either of them...it was her that was chosen to carry the style and be the "spokesperson" for it. I do agree TLC set a trend as well, T-Boz with her hair especially...but it doesn't matter who else was doing it, when most of the girls that were mimicking it, were doing so BECAUSE of AALIYAH...we gonna just act like EVERY girl in school wasn't walking around with the hair over 1 eye? We gonna act like Aaliyah wasn't modeling AND singing?

    TLC made dressing in guys clothes "cool"...Mary made being from the hood "cool"...Aaliyah came off as more of a model who was singing and dancing, and girls bought into that. I mean geez the proof is in the pudding, this isn't just "opinion". Read magazne articles from BEFORE she died etc.

    Of course there were icons that came before icons...if you talking influence, let's say Mary J didn't do ? that most artists in the 70's hadn't already done...it goes without saying that Aaliyah was influenced by people that came before her, most people are..that's life. Denzel was influenced by Sidney Poitier, does that make Denzel less of an icon?

    Aaliyah's acting in QOTD was critically acclaimed, she died before the film was completed perhaps that effected the final product, I'm not entirely sure. Aaliyah was the top billed star in Romeo Must Die as well...and again, both of those movies were simply groundwork for what she was about to undertake...it's not like I'm "speculating" on if her next movie role would've been big or not...it was FACT that she was going to be in both Matrix movies, and the matrix video game..I'm pretty sure that would've made her a household name (outside of the suburbs) something that "Moesha" didn't do for Brandy. Charles S. Dutton did "Roc" did that make him a bigger icon than Denzel? 6 Seasons on Moesha might've fattened Brandy's pockets but it did NOTHING for her acting career, sorry but that's just fact. 1 role in a top box office smash >>> 6 seasons on UPN...a recurring role in a top billed Sci-fi trilogy and a spin off video game>>>> 6 Seasons on UPN and a made for tv Cinderella movie..