Eternal Hell
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You are, as they say back home in the k'far (village) you are "dead right" ..so maybe I should re- route. Because of sin, we are "dead" period, to the portion of Yah within to Yah in absoute, Ain Soph. What is sin??
Lexicon Results
Strong's H2398 - chata'
חָטָא
Transliteration
chata'
Pronunciation
khä·tä' (Key)
Part of Speech
verb
Root Word (Etymology)
A primitive root
TWOT Reference
638
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) to sin, miss, miss the way, go wrong, incur guilt, forfeit, purify from uncleanness
a) (Qal)
1) to miss
2) to sin, miss the goal or path of right and duty
3) to incur guilt, incur penalty by sin, forfeit
b) (Piel)
1) to bear loss
2) to make a sin-offering
3) to purify from sin
4) to purify from uncleanness
c) (Hiphil)
1) to miss the mark
2) to induce to sin, cause to sin
3) to bring into guilt or condemnation or punishment
d) (Hithpael)
1) to miss oneself, lose oneself, wander from the way
2) to purify oneself from uncleanness
Key ponts on the primary root of the word sin as it first written with the account of Cain and Abel in B'Raysheet (Genesis) n the Hebraic thought---miss, miss the way, go wrong, incur guilt, forfeit, purify from uncleanness miss the mark
BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY to miss ONESELF, lose oneself. You are dead to you in sin. The shows we were given the ultimate power. To be able to choose life or death. You looking at the whole paradigm pessimistically and that aint the proper wisdom on the subject of sin because it locks you into it indefinitely.
There isn't enough knowledge or discipline to give any sort of life to our standing with ? BUT if you add joy and giving it don't hurt. People should stop studying their Bible and demonstrate it in Spirit and Truth which results in a prosperous and righteous life...and I'm saying we can enjoy the feelings of enlightenment and in respect to the Yah within and YHWH Elohekha in the absolute, Ain soph=they mean everything. Stringing together the lifestyle (observable worship/work) with the thread of the series of "nows" in a joyful, knowledgable, disciplined, righteous and enlightened frame of mind= eternal life.
My pessimistic view was only half the story. I went that route because we have this notion that ? is as knowable or reachable as a matter of utilizing thought and actions; that if you just follow the rules, then it makes sin null and void. The price for sin would still have to be paid regardless of how "good" we perceive ourselves to be. People can sincerely want to do good, but in respect to ? , their goodness can't save them from ? 's Wrath. It is believing that He has done something about our standing that is more "reviving". -
I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? Luke 12:49
Not the conventional hot hot heat that we know of!!!!!
Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?
Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour.
Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith.
Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD.
And when this people, or the prophet, or a priest, shall ask thee, saying, What is the burden of the LORD? thou shalt then say unto them, What burden? I will even forsake you, saith the LORD.
And as for the prophet, and the priest, and the people, that shall say, The burden of the LORD, I will even punish that man and his house.
Thus shall ye say every one to his neighbour, and every one to his brother, What hath the LORD answered? and, What hath the LORD spoken?
And the burden of the LORD shall ye mention no more: for every man's word shall be his burden; for ye have perverted the words of the living ? , of the LORD of hosts our ? .
Thus shalt thou say to the prophet, What hath the LORD answered thee? and, What hath the LORD spoken?
But since ye say, The burden of the LORD; therefore thus saith the LORD; Because ye say this word, The burden of the LORD, and I have sent unto you, saying, Ye shall not say, The burden of the LORD;
Therefore, behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you, and I will forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and cast you out of my presence:
And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame, which shall not be forgotten. Jeremiah 23:29-40
.......That's eternal fire!
PEACE -
The True Flesh wrote: »I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? Luke 12:49
Not the conventional hot hot heat that we know of!!!!!
Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?
Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour.
Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith.
Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD.
And when this people, or the prophet, or a priest, shall ask thee, saying, What is the burden of the LORD? thou shalt then say unto them, What burden? I will even forsake you, saith the LORD.
And as for the prophet, and the priest, and the people, that shall say, The burden of the LORD, I will even punish that man and his house.
Thus shall ye say every one to his neighbour, and every one to his brother, What hath the LORD answered? and, What hath the LORD spoken?
And the burden of the LORD shall ye mention no more: for every man's word shall be his burden; for ye have perverted the words of the living ? , of the LORD of hosts our ? .
Thus shalt thou say to the prophet, What hath the LORD answered thee? and, What hath the LORD spoken?
But since ye say, The burden of the LORD; therefore thus saith the LORD; Because ye say this word, The burden of the LORD, and I have sent unto you, saying, Ye shall not say, The burden of the LORD;
Therefore, behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you, and I will forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and cast you out of my presence:
And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame, which shall not be forgotten. Jeremiah 23:29-40
.......That's eternal fire!
PEACE
Are you trying to convince yourself that these are scriptures about an everlasting hell?
These are not scriptures about any everlasting hell... Show me scriptures from the Old Testament "warning" people of an everlasting hell of fire and brimstone?
peace -
These are not scriptures about any everlasting hell... Show me scriptures from the Old Testament "warning" people of an everlasting hell of fire and brimstone?
peace
Now why ever would I want to do that?
I have never promoted the mainstream manmade concept of literal eternal "burning"
I already tried to explain that The Almighty ? transcends space and time and therefore words like eternal aren't really applicable to anything outside of THIS LIFE as it is still a unit of LINEAR TIME.
.......You REALLY misunderstood where I was going with posting these particular scriptures.
PEACE -
Who wrote Corinthians? Who are they writing to in that letter? (baptized believers) So what is the implication here? That the Spirit of ? dwells in the believers body. Don't assume that means the Spirit of ? dwells in a non-believer's body. it doesn't. at least not in the way Paul is talking about here. The Spirit of ? dwelling in the believers body is something ppl have to ALLOW to happen, and it just don't won't happen when a person doesn't allow the word of ? to dwell in them. He didn't touch on that in THIS paticular verse tho. THAT BASE is covered in other verses.(ask for scripture if needed) So like i said, don't assume that the Spirit of ? dwelling in man applies to a non believer of the Bible. The word of ? and the Holy Spirit is the same thing bruh. Also, just like a person can choose to listen to ? voice they can choose to listen to Satan voice also. How you think Satan spit G in cats ears all day? and how can one (you) be so sure who you listening to at any given time and who's voice you're obeying in a given decision??1 Corinthians 3:16-17
16Know ye not that ye are the temple of ? , and that the Spirit of ? dwelleth in you?
17If any man defile the temple of ? , him shall ? destroy; for the temple of ? is holy, which temple ye are.
1 Corinthians 6:19-20
19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of ? , and ye are not your own?
20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify ? in your body, and in your spirit, which are ? 's.
I'm not sure how true they are but you should do some research into the gnostic gospels if interested. They are said to have spiritual teachings for humanity but had been suppressed by the powers that be.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnostic_Gospels
The Gnostic Gospels are a collection of about fifty-two texts supposedly based upon the ancient wisdom teachings of several prophets and spiritual leaders including Jesus, written from the 2nd to the 4th century AD.[1] These gospels are not part of the standard Biblical canon of any major Christian denomination, and as such are part of what is called the New Testament apocrypha. Recent novels and films that refer to the gospels have recently increased public interest.[2][3]
The word gnostic comes from the Greek word gnosis, meaning "knowledge", which is often used in Greek philosophy in a manner more consistent with the English "enlightenment". Some scholars continue to maintain traditional dating for the emergence of Gnostic philosophy and religious movements.[4] It is now generally believed that the evidence suggests that Gnosticism was a Jewish movement which subsequently reacted to Christianity or that Gnosticism emerged directly in reaction to Christianity.[5] The name "Christian gnostics" came to represent a segment of the Early Christian community that believed that salvation lay not in merely worshipping Christ, but in psychic or pneumatic souls learning to free themselves from the material world via the revelation.[6] According to this tradition, the answers to spiritual questions are to be found within, not without.[2] Furthermore, the gnostic path does not require the intermediation of a church for salvation. Some scholars, such as Edward Conze and Elaine Pagels, have suggested that gnosticism blends teachings like those attributed to Jesus Christ with teachings found in Eastern traditions.[1]
And please get that Gnostic junk allll the way up outta here kid. Those teaching been out even since the time of the early church and the early church much less ? never cosigned none of them joints. All it was was a bunch of shady writings that came out of nowhere. ? has always confirmed His word through miracles. -
cats is rly up in here closing their eyes tite wide shut to the scriptures that mention the second death? i'm done.
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solid analysis wrote: »Who wrote Corinthians? Who are they writing to in that letter? (baptized believers) So what is the implication here? That the Spirit of ? dwells in the believers body. Don't assume that means the Spirit of ? dwells in a non-believer's body. it doesn't. at least not in the way Paul is talking about here. The Spirit of ? dwelling in the believers body is something ppl have to ALLOW to happen, and it just don't won't happen when a person doesn't allow the word of ? to dwell in them. He didn't touch on that in THIS paticular verse tho. THAT BASE is covered in other verses.(ask for scripture if needed) So like i said, don't assume that the Spirit of ? dwelling in man applies to a non believer of the Bible. The word of ? and the Holy Spirit is the same thing bruh. Also, just like a person can choose to listen to ? voice they can choose to listen to Satan voice also. How you think Satan spit G in cats ears all day? and how can one (you) be so sure who you listening to at any given time and who's voice you're obeying in a given decision??
And please get that Gnostic junk allll the way up outta here kid. Those teaching been out even since the time of the early church and the early church much less ? never cosigned none of them joints. All it was was a bunch of shady writings that came out of nowhere. ? has always confirmed His word through miracles.
lol U dont even understand scripture... Show me where ? told men about the punishment of an "eternal hell" thousands of years ago when the world began and when Moses gave the law? Why would ? wait thousands of years AFTER many civilizations have already came and fell and then all of a sudden say there is an "eternal hell" now?
If there was an eternal hell then why did King David murder people and commit adultery and ? did not say anything to him about an eternal hell?
Show me ? giving the Ancient Egyptians, Ancient Israelites, Native Americans, Ancient Olmelecs, Ancient Mayans, Sumerians, Cannanites, Mesphotamians and all these ancient people a teaching of an eternal hell? Show me hell in the Old Testament?
You are indoctrinated under Roman Catholic teachings and if you want to believe the lies of men then do you. Just dont push your fear of hell propaganda over here. And if the gnostic teachings were false why was there millions of people following it during the 2nd and 3rd centuries and why were they slaughtered off by the Romans? What were the Romans trying to hide? If anything is shady its your Roman Catholic religion.
The king james version is NOT original its a book that has been tampered with by men. Someone could have come out with a King Denzel Washington "version" Bible but it dont mean its the truth.
Proverbs 14:15
The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.
2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto ? , a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. -
You see solid analysis I understand that you are apart of the Roman Catholic religion but I have some questions for you.
Why was Apostle Paul persecuting Christians and involved in murder if he knew that he could go to an eternal hell afterwards?
If Hell is real why is it that those who preach it the most look more like Pharisees and the devil, while those who believe in the salvation of all mankind seem to be more loving and merciful than strong Hell-fire believers? It's a plain fact that the colder less loving one is the easier it is to teach Hell while the more loving one becomes the harder it is to talk about Hell. Is heaven full of cold unloving people?
If Hell is real and if good people go to heaven and bad people go to Hell, why does EVERYONE, good or bad, go to the same place in the Old Testament? They ALL go to Sheol which the King James Version translated "Hell" thirty-0ne times, "grave" thirty-one times and "pit" three times? Are we all destined to go to Hell or did the King's translators make some gross translational errors?
If Hell is real, why don't the Jews, many who know the Old Testament better than most Christians, not believe in the modern Christian concept of Hell? They say they don't believe it because it is not in their Scriptures. Most scholars today can not find Hell in the Old Testament. Most leading Bible translations no longer contain the word Hell in the entire Old Testament. (Genesis through Malachi.)
If Hell as a place of everlasting tortures was the real fate of all mankind unless they did something here on earth to prevent it, why didn't ? make that warning plain right at the beginning of the Bible? ? said the penalty for eating of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was DEATH. He did NOT define death as eternal life being forever tortured in burning fire and brimstone.
If Hell was real why didn't Moses warn about this fate in the Ten Commandments or the Mosaic Covenant consisting of over 600 laws, ordinances, and warnings? The Mosaic Law simply stated blessings and cursings IN THIS LIFETIME for failure to keep the Mosaic Law.
If Hell doesn't exist in the Old Testament, how could Jesus and his disciples teach that salvation was deliverance from a place that is not even found in their Scriptures? (There was only the Old Testament at that time.) Would that not make Him appear like a false teacher? Or could it be that Jesus never taught such a concept in the first place? Could it be that this concept has been added to the church and SOME Bibles through "traditions of men?"
If Hell is real, since SOME English translations use the word Hell for the Greek word "Gehenna," in the New Testament, why didn't this same place (Gehenna) get translated Hell in the many places where it appears in the Hebrew form "ga ben Hinnom" in the Old Testament? If the Jews did not understand this valley as a symbol of everlasting torture, why do SOME English translations give this word such a meaning? And who burned who in this valley? And what was ? 's response for Israel doing such a horrible thing to their children? (Jer. 32:33-35) And how could ? say "such a thing never entered His mind" if in fact He is going to do the very same thing to most of His own children?
If Hell is real why do some of the best Bible scholars and Bible teachers say it is NOT in the Greek or Hebrew text? (William Barclay, John A.T. Robinson, Lightfoot, Westcott, F.W. Farrar, Marvin Vincent, etc.) -
lol U dont even understand scripture... Show me where ? told men about the punishment of an "eternal hell" thousands of years ago when the world began and when Moses gave the law? Why would ? wait thousands of years AFTER many civilizations have already came and fell and then all of a sudden say there is an "eternal hell" now?
If there was an eternal hell then why did King David murder people and commit adultery and ? did not say anything to him about an eternal hell?
Show me ? giving the Ancient Egyptians, Ancient Israelites, Native Americans, Ancient Olmelecs, Ancient Mayans and all these ancient cultures a teaching of an eternal hell? Show me hell in the Old Testament?
You are indoctrinated under Roman Catholic teachings and if you want to believe the lies of men then do you. Just dont push your fear of hell propaganda over here. And if the gnostic teachings were false why was there millions of people following it during the 2nd and 3rd centuries and why were they slaughtered off by the Romans? What were the Romans trying to hide? If anything is shady its your Roman Catholic religion.
The king james version is NOT original its a book that has been tampered with by men. Someone could have come out with a King Denzel Washington "version" Bible but it dont mean its the truth.
Proverbs 14:15
The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.
2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto ? , a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Would it be fair to say as much as you declare someone's misunderstanding of scripture, that you are just as prone to that same misunderstanding? There is just this sense that the gaining of knowledge is dignified; a show of progress towards a better state. However, it could just as well lead to someone's destruction especially if it is seen as a way to get to ? . Maybe for our sakes it isn't about what we know about ? ...but whether we know ? ; whether we fear (or respect) ? . For if it is about intelligence, then we will never gain infinity in a lifetime. -
alissowack wrote: »Would it be fair to say as much as you declare someone's misunderstanding of scripture, that you are just as prone to that same misunderstanding? There is just this sense that the gaining of knowledge is dignified; a show of progress towards a better state. However, it could just as well lead to someone's destruction especially if it is seen as a way to get to ? . Maybe for our sakes it isn't about what we know about ? ...but whether we know ? ; whether we fear (or respect) ? . For if it is about intelligence, then we will never gain infinity in a lifetime.
When you don't find ? speaking of hell at any time after many civilizations have already came and fell and billions of souls have already died then all of a sudden there is a teaching of an eternal hell in a Roman Catholic "version" of a Bible that doesn't spark anything in your mind to research into this discrepancy? If we have respect of ? do we teach the traditions of men or the truth of ? ? People need to stop looking to a man in the sky and realize that ? is within.
Luke 17:21
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of ? is within you.
Saddam Hussien, Mumar Ghadafi, and Ghandi were not Christians so are they in hell for not being a Christian? -
When you don't find ? speaking of hell at any time after many civilizations have already came and fell and billions of souls have already died then all of a sudden there is a teaching of an eternal hell in a Roman Catholic "version" of a Bible that doesn't spark anything in your mind to research into this discrepancy? If we have respect of ? do we teach the traditions of men or the truth of ? ? People need to stop looking to a man in the sky and realize that ? is within.
Luke 17:21
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of ? is within you.
Saddam Hussien, Mumar Ghadafi, and Ghandi were not Christians so are they in hell for not being a Christian?
There is a verse in the Bible that speaks of ? being beyond understanding and another that speaks of man's heart being deceitful and desperately wicked. The issue is not with the Roman Catholic Church (thought it has played a role). It is our deceitful hearts to think we can comphrend ? . Hell exists...just not in the way the Roman Catholic Church supposedly taught it. -
alissowack wrote: »There is a verse in the Bible that speaks of ? being beyond understanding and another that speaks of man's heart being deceitful and desperately wicked. The issue is not with the Roman Catholic Church (thought it has played a role). It is our deceitful hearts to think we can comphrend ? . Hell exists...just not in the way the Roman Catholic Church supposedly taught it.
yea hell exist as a condition on earth that's why the scripture speaks of death and hell being destroyed in revelations. You can seek ? within you... You dont have to always restort outside of you to books tampered with by men to know who ? is... ? is love. Jesus did not teach people to be Bible thumpers he told taught people to be spiritually renewed and to live by the spirit. But now a days most people are religious Bible thumpers that dont live by the spirit nor seek ? within. They seek ? in a book.
2 Corinthians 3:6
He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant. This is a covenant not of written laws, but of the Spirit. The old written covenant ends in death; but under the new covenant, the Spirit gives life.
Matthew 28:20
Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age." -
yea hell exist as a condition on earth that's why the scripture speaks of death and hell being destroyed in revelations. You can seek ? within you... You dont have to always restort outside of you to books tampered with by men to know who ? is... ? is love. Jesus did not teach people to be Bible thumpers he told taught people to be spiritually renewed and to live by the spirit. But now a days most people are religious Bible thumpers that dont live by the spirit nor seek ? within. They seek ? in a book.
2 Corinthians 3:6
He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant. This is a covenant not of written laws, but of the Spirit. The old written covenant ends in death; but under the new covenant, the Spirit gives life.
Matthew 28:20
Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
I would have to disagree with you. No one can and will seek ? on their own merit. Our hearts want no part of ? .
With those verses you posted, what to they mean in light of this passage of scripture?
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. (Jeremiah 17:9, 10 KJV) -
alissowack wrote: »I would have to disagree with you. No one can and will seek ? on their own merit. Our hearts want no part of ? .
With those verses you posted, what to they mean in light of this passage of scripture?
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. (Jeremiah 17:9, 10 KJV)
Did you know your heart was wicked before u read the king james Bible? I swear some of you walk around brainwashed. The same book also tells u to seek ? within and u shall find him. The heart has the potential to be desperately wicked if u let it and it also has the potential to be good if u let it, understand the context of scripture.
Jeremiah 29:12
Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.
And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
Matthew 12:35
A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
Proverbs 17:22
A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones.
Joel 2:12
Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning:
And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your ? : for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. -
Actually yes i do understand scripture.lol U dont even understand scripture...Show me where ? told men about the punishment of an "eternal hell" thousands of years ago when the world began and when Moses gave the law? Why would ? wait thousands of years AFTER many civilizations have already came and fell and then all of a sudden say there is an "eternal hell" now?
The Law of Moses barely even touches on the idea of eternal salvation in Heaven also. It wasn't til around Jesus time that ? decided to explain that aspect of the law in more detail. Does that make the reality of eternal salvation any less real? No. So what are you getting at??? The Old Law in a lot of ways served as an introductory of the full and complete law that was to come through Christ. If you my friend had any truly thorough Biblical background maybe you would know that.
And that the OT scriptures don't go into detail about eternal Hell or Heaven doesn't mean that ? people in that time didn't have knowledge of it even if it was only vague.
I touched on part of why eternal Hell or Heaven isn't really mentioned in OT above.If there was an eternal hell then why did King David murder people and commit adultery and ? did not say anything to him about an eternal hell?
umm. i think ima go with a, No? on that one. is that ok?Show me ? giving the Ancient Egyptians, Ancient Israelites, Native Americans, Ancient Olmelecs, Ancient Mayans, Sumerians, Cannanites, Mesphotamians and all these ancient people a teaching of an eternal hell? Show me hell in the Old Testament?
You the one building a case...the burden of proof is on you. Meanwhile while u continue to bring forth evidence - the parts of the Bible that you continue to misconcrue - i'll just continue to expose your folly on that. how about that?
First off are you rly going to argue the legitimacy or rightfullness of a religious text from a numeric figure?You are indoctrinated under Roman Catholic teachings and if you want to believe the lies of men then do you. Just dont push your fear of hell propaganda over here. And if the gnostic teachings were false why was there millions of people following it during the 2nd and 3rd centuries and why were they slaughtered off by the Romans? What were the Romans trying to hide? If anything is shady its your Roman Catholic religion.
Second, bruh just stop talking plz. Why would the Roman Catholic church create a book that goes against the vast majority of it's own teachings? You either look at the Bible as a book from men or from ? , you can't have both. You yourself quote the Bible, maybe we should assume you yourself are a covert Catholic.
Again, you the one making a case so the proof falls on you. you the one coming with propaganda. i never seen anyone in here make such a claim anyway...so i hope you having fun playing with all that straw, building those scarecrows over there.The king james version is NOT original its a book that has been tampered with by men. Someone could have come out with a King Denzel Washington "version" Bible but it dont mean its the truth. -
Did you know your heart was wicked before u read the king james Bible? I swear some of you walk around brainwashed. The same book also tells u to seek ? within and u shall find him. The heart has the potential to be desperately wicked if u let it and it also has the potential to be good if u let it, understand the context of scripture.
Jeremiah 29:12
Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.
And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
Matthew 12:35
A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
Proverbs 17:22
A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones.
Joel 2:12
Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning:
And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your ? : for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.
When I try to present scripture, I try not use it as scripture that single out somebody. The "deceitful heart" verse applies to me as well so if you felt offended by it, then for our sakes it ought to strike a nerve. And there are other verses that speak on our hopeless state. I'm not trying to discourage studying to attain knowledge for scripture encourages it. But, to think you have gained ? 's Divinity because of it is to deceive yourself. For anybody to think it, including myself, is to bring "Hell" upon ourselves. -
No one in R&R that i know openly claims Catholic. So no need to start bearin false witness.You see solid analysis I understand that you are apart of the Roman Catholic religion but I have some questions for you.
Why was Apostle Paul persecuting Christians and involved in murder if he knew that he could go to an eternal hell afterwards?
And Paul admited his prior position towards the church was done so out of ignorance (see 1 Timothy 1:13)
The fuller understanding given in other scriptures is that Paul believed that by persecuting Christians he was doing ? 's will. But the one in 1 Timothy 1:13 pretty much answers your question. So why would someone think they're headed to Hell when they believe what they are doing is right? that doesn't make sense.
First answer the question: By what standard do you judge whether something is right or wrong??If Hell is real why is it that those who preach it the most look more like Pharisees and the devil, while those who believe in the salvation of all mankind seem to be more loving and merciful than strong Hell-fire believers? It's a plain fact that the colder less loving one is the easier it is to teach Hell while the more loving one becomes the harder it is to talk about Hell. Is heaven full of cold unloving people?
I have no clue as to why some places in the OT have Hell when grave would be the better word. But 'the grave' represents the realm of the dead. In the NT we learn the the land of the dead is divided into two sections: those in torments, and those in comfort. See the story of the rich man and Lazarus the beggar as told by Christ Himself.If Hell is real and if good people go to heaven and bad people go to Hell, why does EVERYONE, good or bad, go to the same place in the Old Testament? They ALL go to Sheol which the King James Version translated "Hell" thirty-0ne times, "grave" thirty-one times and "pit" three times? Are we all destined to go to Hell or did the King's translators make some gross translational errors?
Hell is a Biblical Concept. More detail about what Hell is and what it's like can be found in the NT section of the Bible.If Hell is real, why don't the Jews, many who know the Old Testament better than most Christians, not believe in the modern Christian concept of Hell? They say they don't believe it because it is not in their Scriptures. Most scholars today can not find Hell in the Old Testament. Most leading Bible translations no longer contain the word Hell in the entire Old Testament. (Genesis through Malachi.)
What does it matter why a person may believe something that is contrary to ? 's word?
The concept of Salvation wasn't much mentioned in the OT either. So what's your point?If Hell as a place of everlasting tortures was the real fate of all mankind unless they did something here on earth to prevent it, why didn't ? make that warning plain right at the beginning of the Bible? ? said the penalty for eating of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was DEATH. He did NOT define death as eternal life being forever tortured in burning fire and brimstone.
When did ? ever say He would just lay the whole plan out for man all at one time??
1. That doesn't say one thing or another regarding the children of Israel knowledge of there being an afterlife. Just because it's not written in detail doesn't mean they didn't have some sense of an afterlife in which they will continue to live, or be separated from ? .If Hell was real why didn't Moses warn about this fate in the Ten Commandments or the Mosaic Covenant consisting of over 600 laws, ordinances, and warnings? The Mosaic Law simply stated blessings and cursings IN THIS LIFETIME for failure to keep the Mosaic Law.
2. The OT represents on a fraction of ? 's plan, so again, i don't know what your point is.
No it's not possible that it was added. The fact is that Jesus himself taught about Hell. You need a scripture for that?If Hell doesn't exist in the Old Testament, how could Jesus and his disciples teach that salvation was deliverance from a place that is not even found in their Scriptures? (There was only the Old Testament at that time.) Would that not make Him appear like a false teacher? Or could it be that Jesus never taught such a concept in the first place? Could it be that this concept has been added to the church and SOME Bibles through "traditions of men?"
Well since you didn't cite scripture i would have to assume the scriptures you are referring to. So do you rly want an answer or is this just rhetoric?If Hell is real, since SOME English translations use the word Hell for the Greek word "Gehenna," in the New Testament, why didn't this same place (Gehenna) get translated Hell in the many places where it appears in the Hebrew form "ga ben Hinnom" in the Old Testament?
It would be easier to be more specific by directly citing scriptures and make your point breaking it down the part you talking about into Greek or whatever.If the Jews did not understand this valley as a symbol of everlasting torture, why do SOME English translations give this word such a meaning? And who burned who in this valley? And what was ? 's response for Israel doing such a horrible thing to their children? (Jer. 32:33-35) And how could ? say "such a thing never entered His mind" if in fact He is going to do the very same thing to most of His own children?
Best Bible scholars by what standard of measurement??If Hell is real why do some of the best Bible scholars and Bible teachers say it is NOT in the Greek or Hebrew text? (William Barclay, John A.T. Robinson, Lightfoot, Westcott, F.W. Farrar, Marvin Vincent, etc.) -
solid analysis wrote: »No one in R&R that i know openly claims Catholic. So no need to start bearin false witness.
And Paul admited his prior position towards the church was done so out of ignorance (see 1 Timothy 1:13)
The fuller understanding given in other scriptures is that Paul believed that by persecuting Christians he was doing ? 's will. But the one in 1 Timothy 1:13 pretty much answers your question. So why would someone think they're headed to Hell when they believe what they are doing is right? that doesn't make sense.
First answer the question: By what standard do you judge whether something is right or wrong??
I have no clue as to why some places in the OT have Hell when grave would be the better word. But 'the grave' represents the realm of the dead. In the NT we learn the the land of the dead is divided into two sections: those in torments, and those in comfort. See the story of the rich man and Lazarus the beggar as told by Christ Himself.
Hell is a Biblical Concept. More detail about what Hell is and what it's like can be found in the NT section of the Bible.
What does it matter why a person may believe something that is contrary to ? 's word?
The concept of Salvation wasn't much mentioned in the OT either. So what's your point?
When did ? ever say He would just lay the whole plan out for man all at one time??
1. That doesn't say one thing or another regarding the children of Israel knowledge of there being an afterlife. Just because it's not written in detail doesn't mean they didn't have some sense of an afterlife in which they will continue to live, or be separated from ? .
2. The OT represents on a fraction of ? 's plan, so again, i don't know what your point is.
No it's not possible that it was added. The fact is that Jesus himself taught about Hell. You need a scripture for that?
Well since you didn't cite scripture i would have to assume the scriptures you are referring to. So do you rly want an answer or is this just rhetoric?
It would be easier to be more specific by directly citing scriptures and make your point breaking it down the part you talking about into Greek or whatever.
Best Bible scholars by what standard of measurement??
You are making this more complicated than it needs to be because you are uncomfortable in your indoctrinated belief system now that u are faced with facts.
Show me ? or any prophet warning ANYONE about the threat of a eternal hell in the Old Testament?
If there was no warning or scripture of an eternal hell in the Old Testament and for the thousands of years that man has walked the earth but now all of a sudden a white man version of scripture says there is one and u act as if you are too brainwashed to study the facts?
Like I said you are an evil demon that thinks he will be rewarded to be in heaven based on his belief in Jesus Christ and the majority of others will be damned eternally. Have fun in your Roman Catholic delusions.
peace -
Not to mention there are hundreds of so called holy books in the world but you happen to think that the king james "version" is the only true one on earth. Why don't you believe in the other books of the Bible like Enoch, Jasher, and the gnostic text? Why dont you believe in the Quran?
According to what you are saying you only believe 1 book out of the hundreds that are on the earth so therefore you believe that someone took the time to write these hundreds of other books you claim to be false scripture yet you don't think anyone touched the king james version Bible even tho evidence shows it doesn't add up for there to be NO MENTION OF THE EXISTENCE OF ETERNAL HELL for thousands upon thousands of years and then all of a sudden there is a eternal hell in Roman Catholic religion. talk about hypocrite and brainwash.
And besides the Apocryphal books eliminated from the Bible used by Protestant Church
there are, at least, 28 other books mentioned in scripture, which do not appear in the Bible. Why don't u believe in those other books? -
The Evil of religion in the hands of unlearned pastors spreading poison to the masses and not practicing what they preach.
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The lack of info would actually go to say that rly neither one of us knows and we can't rightly make a judgment from the lack thereof. we gotta be careful not to make big assumptions when we don't have all the facts. that's how ppl fall for okie dokes left and right.You are making this more complicated than it needs to be because you are uncomfortable in your indoctrinated belief system now that u are faced with facts.
Show me ? or any prophet warning ANYONE about the threat of a eternal hell in the Old Testament?
A mention of eternal destruction in the OT: "The sinners in Zion are afraid; Fearfulness has seized the hypocrites: "Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?" (Isaiah 33:14)
1) What follows here after 'IF' is an assumption. One that is already proven false above.If 1) there was no warning or scripture of an eternal hell in the Old Testament and for the thousands of years that man has walked the earth but now 2) all of a sudden a white man version of scripture says there is one and 3) u act as if you are too brainwashed to study the facts?
2) The KJV is a translation. There are several translations of the Book in hundreds (or is it thousands) of diff languages. The original Greek copies we have says there is one too.
3)So safe to say this whole rhetorical question is false?
That's fine. You can sit up here and call me a demon or whatever you like based on my acceptance of ? word as taught in scripture. Are you gonna stand before ? on the throne and tell Him HE'S a demon?Like I said you are an evil demon that thinks he will be rewarded to be in heaven based on his belief in Jesus Christ and the majority of others will be damned eternally. Have fun in your Roman Catholic delusions. -
the portion i bolded is EXTRA paramount. dont trip though on ur development- we are like the earth..there are seasons to sow, to rap, for the earth to rest etc. you just going through a long winter thats all...
Shalom and thanks for the kinds word and encouragment, Because truth be told you with your hebrew knowledge and science and lessons you woke me up and got me to study again and study deeper and remember who am i as a person and Hebrew and how happy and at peace i was when i was studying and praising and following YAHUWAH. -
solid analysis wrote: »The lack of info would actually go to say that rly neither one of us knows and we can't rightly make a judgment from the lack thereof. we gotta be careful not to make big assumptions when we don't have all the facts. that's how ppl fall for okie dokes left and right.
A mention of eternal destruction in the OT: "The sinners in Zion are afraid; Fearfulness has seized the hypocrites: "Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?" (Isaiah 33:14)
1) What follows here after 'IF' is an assumption. One that is already proven false above.
2) The KJV is a translation. There are several translations of the Book in hundreds (or is it thousands) of diff languages. The original Greek copies we have says there is one too.
3)So safe to say this whole rhetorical question is false?
That's fine. You can sit up here and call me a demon or whatever you like based on my acceptance of ? word as taught in scripture. Are you gonna stand before ? on the throne and tell Him HE'S a demon?
lol i hope u are not twiting scripture to make it seem as if that is talking about a eternal hell.... show me a straight forward "warning" in the Old Testament about an eternal hell. This is not a warning but a scripture u are taking out of context. All trained Biblical scholars and those learned in in the Old Testament know that there is no mention of an eternal hell in the Old Testament. You just happen to do a google search for the word "eternal fire" in the Old Testament and dont understand the context or meaning of the scripture.
peace -
*sigh*lol i hope u are not twiting scripture to make it seem as if that is talking about a eternal hell.... show me a straight forward "warning" in the Old Testament about an eternal hell. This is not a warning but a scripture u are taking out of context. All trained Biblical scholars and those learned in in the Old Testament know that there is no mention of an eternal hell in the Old Testament. You just happen to do a google search for the word "eternal fire" in the Old Testament and dont understand the context or meaning of the scripture.
peace
Show me where it specifically mention BMWs in the Old Testament. And if it doesn't, guess what? BMW's don't exist! <---your argument.
Of course you will reject that scripture, but your rejection is based on nothing other than what you personally want to accept. So what it comes down to is that you really don't want to accept that Hell exists. In reality, the problem is that you don't fully believe the Bible; You don't have to say it, it shows in your posts and your flip flop approach to scripture.
and another problem you having is Jesus. Jesus is a stumbling block (1 Corinthians 1:23). And you will continue to stumble untill you fully accept His message; That my friend is what you struggling with.
Now surely you would agree that when Jesus was walking the earth, the law of Moses was the law that was in effect at that time, no? Well, during the time of THE LAW OF MOSES Jesus discussing the two possible fates of mankind said: "And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matthew 25:46). Now when it comes to the audience Jesus was speaking to at that time did any of them ask for a scripture from the law of Moses as proof that eternal destruction exist? No. So why are you asking for one? Could it be that you would have us believe that Jesus told a lie? Don't worry, I won't hold my breath waiting for an honest response. -
solid analysis wrote: »*sigh*
Show me where it specifically mention BMWs in the Old Testament. And if it doesn't, guess what? BMW's don't exist! <---your argument.
Of course you will reject that scripture, but your rejection is based on nothing other than what you personally want to accept. So what it comes down to is that you really don't want to accept that Hell exists. In reality, the problem is that you don't fully believe the Bible; You don't have to say it, it shows in your posts and your flip flop approach to scripture. and another problem you having is Jesus. Jesus is a stumbling block (1 Corinthians 1:23). And you will continue to stumble untill you fully accept His message; That my friend is what you struggling with.
Now surely you would agree that when Jesus was walking the earth, the law of Moses was the law that was in effect at that time, no? Well, during the time of THE LAW OF MOSES Jesus discussing the two possible fates of mankind said: "And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matthew 25:46). Now when it comes to the audience Jesus was speaking to at that time did any of them ask for a scripture from the law of Moses as proof that eternal destruction exist? No. So why are you asking for one? Could it be that you would have us believe that Jesus told a lie? Don't worry, I won't hold my breath waiting for an honest response.
what do u mean Jesus is a stumbling block? The fact is that there is no mention of a eternal hell nor a warning given in the Old Testament. You are making that up yourself. Most of those learned in the scripture on this forum know that there is no mention of hell in the Old Testament... Biblical scholars know that as well. Hell, the people in Israel the fake Jews know that there is no hell in the Old Testament so how is it possible that after 2,000 years u are claiming that there is an eternal hell in the Old Testament?
The Lake of Fire is NOT an Eternal hell. Hence you see in Revelations death and hell were emptied into the Lake of Fire. These are two SEPERATE places.
Jude 1:7
Even as ? and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Do you see ? and Gomorrha still burning today? No, its not burning but as you see it says eternal fire. They use the term "eternal fire" because this is a fire coming directly from the Most High.
And the scripture you are speaking of in Isaiah 33:14 is talking about the day of judgement NOT an everlasting hell. The Bible says the earth will be cleansed with fire and the sinners/wicked will be burnt on earth NOT in a everlasting hell.
2 Peter 3:7
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Malachi 4:1
For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
^^^^^ As you see it says the fire will burn on the earth and will leave them neither root nor branch so how is this an eternal hell?
If you watch the end of movies like "Terminator 2" or 'Knowing" it shows a similar scenario to the type of fire that will burn the earth.
As you see you are wrong...
peace
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qsdI_DTLHg