Past, Present, Future - Does time exist?
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oliverlang wrote: »I would say the only thing that exists is NOW, the past doesn't exist - it already happened, the future doesn't exist - it hasn't happened.
that's my take on it. Time is a man made concept. The sun, moon, stars don't validate the existence of time. Time is just a convenient tool for us to use. The past does not exist, the future does not exist, only the present...only this very moment. -
theillestrator wrote: »this very moment.
that's what it's about... -
Another reason why time is only a man made illusion is that our time is measured by the earth revolving around the sun. You go from years, to months, to days, to hours, to minutes, to seconds, and so forth. But, how would you measure time in space? Or on another planet?
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oliverlang wrote: »I agree with the infinite thing you say...however, can you live in the past? Do you exist in the past? The present always turns into "the past," but the present is the only thing that continually exists. You only live and exist in the current moment. All there is, is an ever changing present.
From certain perspectives or point of views these statements or questions could lead you to believe there is only one present that we exist in, but I believe that to be a Naive thought. Look at demensions, drawing a square on paper gives you one flat plane then drawing one behind it and connecting it with a few lines gives that same square an extra demension. Another example, a sheet of paper lying on a table is perhaps just a rectangular sheet on the table but if you stand it up and turn it side ways you hardly see it at all...
Its hard for our minds to even comprehend that every moment that exist happens at once because we have created time which is a masking of the number one. Their is only 1. 2 is 1,1. 3 is 1,1,1. 4 is 1,1,1,1, and so on... Whether you call it past or present I agree there is only one our conscious minds exist in, but I do believe there to be other moments that are happening simultaneously as we live in what we call are present. Its the infinite that is everything. Being that we are everywhere at once. -
perspective@100 wrote: »In all of them... Are counting system does not make any sense. Its pretty simple with only ten digits, but yet you can use these to go on forever with no end? How can you measure something that never ends? You cant. So using it to measure makes no sense to me. Using this sytem to measure time we can never reach 1 in anything. its not year 1 its still .0000000000000000000000000000001 and further and further back so much so we will never see a whole digit...
The past is the only thing are minds can process though. The so called present is actually the past. Imagine one equal plane where everything happens at all at once, no difference in moment. Just 1 so called "time"
Ok I get what you're saying and you're right. But it's a form of measurement within our own capable comprehension. For example, let's say we put cookie dough in the oven and it takes 5 minutes to cook. We can use that 'time' to measure how long it takes to cook a cookie and then set a timer for 5 minutes so we know when the cookie is done. We use this to measure the seasons and full moons and etc... In your context, it would be impossible to measure the universe if it is believed that the universe has always been and always will be. -
Time does exists but I think only the future and the past exist and 'now' is an illusion.
Everything you percieve right 'now' is actually a fraction of a second old. The light from the computer needs a nanosecond or so to reach you eye. The sound of your friend saying 'hello' needs micro second to reach you. All our perception are based on a time delay of some kind. While we can not see it while we exist in 'now' we are all looking at the most recent echo of the past.
There is no simulatanity to 'now'. What I think is happening right now is slightly different than a person across the street. If we could freeze time and build the picture of 'now' two people hold they would differ slightly in the length of time sounds and images need to reach that person. -
Time does exists but I think only the future and the past exist and 'now' is an illusion.
Everything you percieve right 'now' is actually a fraction of a second old. The light from the computer needs a nanosecond or so to reach you eye. The sound of your friend saying 'hello' needs micro second to reach you. All our perception are based on a time delay of some kind. While we can not see it while we exist in 'now' we are all looking at the most recent echo of the past.
There is no simulatanity to 'now'. What I think is happening right now is slightly different than a person across the street. If we could freeze time and build the picture of 'now' two people hold they would differ slightly in the length of time sounds and images need to reach that person.
In other words, the only thing that exists is the ever changing present moment. -
The fact that you are here in the present suggest you have a past and thus, will have a future. Technically you can argue that each person exist in these states of existence simultaneously.
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bless the child wrote: »The fact that you are here in the present suggest you have a past and thus, will have a future. Technically you can argue that each person exist in these states of existence simultaneously.
But can someone really exist now, while existing 30 years from now, simultaneously? -
bless the child wrote: »The fact that you are here in the present suggest you have a past and thus, will have a future. Technically you can argue that each person exist in these states of existence simultaneously.
You only have a past in the sense of memories. You cannot go to the past, you can't take a train and visit for a while. You cannot go to the future, you can't take a train and visit for a while. These two things don't have life. You can only access these states of 'time' when you think about them. You cannot simultaneously have your mind in the 'past', 'future' and present. You can only be in one of the three at any given moment. -
Punisher__ wrote: »But can someone really exist now, while existing 30 years from now, simultaneously?
If you can exist now, and potentially exist one second from now then you can potentially exist 30 years from now. Future time is undetermined but it exist. You may not be able to put a number on it but just being here guarantees you a future. Because you cant put a number on it, you constantly have a simultaneous state of being because the future can be one second or one year. Either way, its guaranteed to come thus giving you multiple states of existence at the same time. -
BiblicalAtheist wrote: »You only have a past in the sense of memories. You cannot go to the past, you can't take a train and visit for a while. You cannot go to the future, you can't take a train and visit for a while. These two things don't have life. You can only access these states of 'time' when you think about them. You cannot simultaneously have your mind in the 'past', 'future' and present. You can only be in one of the three at any given moment.
Im not saying that you can be physically present in the past, present and future at the same time. I'm saying that you exist in all three at the same time. I was born in 1985, which means I have a state of existence in the past, today is 2010 and im still alive typing on this message board. This means I have a state of existence right now in the present. In a few minutes you can potentially respond to my post, and I can respond back. That gives me another state of being at the same time even though physically im here in the year 2010. -
bless the child wrote: »Im not saying that you can be physically present in the past, present and future at the same time. I'm saying that you exist in all three at the same time. I was born in 1985, which means I have a state of existence in the past, today is 2010 and im still alive typing on this message board. This means I have a state of existence right now in the present. In a few minutes you can potentially respond to my post, and I can respond back. That gives me another state of being at the same time even though physically im here in the year 2010.
That is not state of being, that is state of mind.
Adjective
state of being (not comparable)
Positive
state of being
Comparative
not comparable
Superlative
none (absolute)
1. Regarding a person's physical condition
[edit] Derived terms
* state of beingness
[edit] Noun
Singular
state of being
Plural
states of being
state of being (plural states of being)
1. As opposed to mental condition (state of mind), the overall physical condition of a person.
You can only have state of being in the present, and state of mind in the past(memories) and state of mind in the future(imagination). -
If you are a psychic can you be in a state of being during the past and future? They can be somewhere in either time, tell you exactly whos there and whats happening, the only thing is they are not physically there. They ARE there, just not in physical form.
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ThaChozenWun wrote: »If you are a psychic can you be in a state of being during the past and future? They can be somewhere in either time, tell you exactly whos there and whats happening, the only thing is they are not physically there. They ARE there, just not in physical form.
Word to That's So Raven. -
It exists to us because we a mortal. So we have a start and a finish therefore we have a TIME to live.
BUt time is just what we define whatever that start and finish is. -
BiblicalAtheist wrote: »That is not state of being, that is state of mind.
Adjective
state of being (not comparable)
Positive
state of being
Comparative
not comparable
Superlative
none (absolute)
1. Regarding a person's physical condition
[edit] Derived terms
* state of beingness
[edit] Noun
Singular
state of being
Plural
states of being
state of being (plural states of being)
1. As opposed to mental condition (state of mind), the overall physical condition of a person.
You can only have state of being in the present, and state of mind in the past(memories) and state of mind in the future(imagination).
State-1 a : mode or condition of being <a state of readiness> b (1) : condition of mind or temperament <in a highly nervous state> (2) : a condition of abnormal tension or excitement
2 a : a condition or stage in the physical being of something <insects in the larval state> <the gaseous state of water> b : any of various conditions characterized by definite quantities (as of energy, angular momentum, or magnetic moment) in which an atomic system may exist
3 a : social position; especially : high rank b (1) : elaborate or luxurious style of living (2) : formal dignity : pomp —usually used with in
4 a : a body of persons constituting a special class in a society : estate 3 b plural : the members or representatives of the governing classes assembled in a legislative body c obsolete : a person of high rank (as a noble)
5 a : a politically organized body of people usually occupying a definite territory; especially : one that is sovereign b : the political organization of such a body of people c : a government or politically organized society having a particular character <a police state> <the welfare state>
6 : the operations or concerns of the government of a country
7 a : one of the constituent units of a nation having a federal government <the fifty states> b plural capitalized : The United States of America
8 : the territory of a state
Being-1 a : the quality or state of having existence b (1) : something conceivable as existing (2) : something that actually exists (3) : the totality of existing things c : conscious existence : life
2 : the qualities that constitute an existent thing : essence; especially : personality
3 : a living thing; especially : person
I said state of existence, not state of being, but anyhow... If i was to use that terminolgy I would use them individually. If I was to say his "state of being", "was" or "is" something, then I would be restricting a person to a time and place, which would suggest a physical state of being. By using "being" im simple expressing a state of existence, or potiental state of existence. Im not restricting a person to a particular time or place. The past, present and future are broad, so you cant really put it in the box of "state of being". "State of being"refers to the physical world. "Being" does not. Thats why I said "state of existence" rather than, "state of being". -
oliverlang wrote: »These are man made concepts...what were they before they were minutes, hours, days, or years? Animals don't consider seconds, minutes, hours, days, or years. Only man.
Time is not a man made concept. The descriptive terms or words applied to them are man made. But not the concept
Time is a measure of motion, which is not an illusion. Anything that doesn't grow, move, or evolve or displays some type of motion will die. Mentally, then physically.
And animals do consider time. Some animals migrate based on time and seasonal changes. Some animals lay eggs, leave, and return based on time. Some Female snakes lay eggs and leave right before they hatch because she has to be there to protect it as long as she can so predators don't get to them and she leaves because she knows that she may be overpowered and eat her own young. Ah, a mother's love!
Time is really the yardstick by which we measure our actions because it can lead to life or death. -
Time is not a man made concept. The descriptive terms or words applied to them are man made. But not the concept
Time is a measure of motion, which is not an illusion. Anything that doesn't grow, move, or evolve or displays some type of motion will die. Mentally, then physically.
And animals do consider time. Some animals migrate based on time and seasonal changes. Some animals lay eggs, leave, and return based on time. Some Female snakes lay eggs and leave right before they hatch because she has to be there to protect it as long as she can so predators don't get to them and she leaves because she knows that she may be overpowered and eat her own young. Ah, a mother's love!
Time is really the yardstick by which we measure our actions because it can lead to life or death.
That's nature and instinct...not time. A Hippo does not say it's 1130, so let me move up north a bit. This is what I mean by man made concept. Time and the way we measure it. How can we measure time in space? in other galaxies? on other planets?
Also, the future is not gauranteed and hasn't happened yet...it cannot exist...the past has already happened how can it exist? You cannot exist in the future or the past, how can they exist? The past only exists in your memory and the future only exists in your dreams. The current moment that is ever changing is the only thing that truely exists. -
bless the child wrote: »I said state of existence, not state of being, but anyhow... If i was to use that terminolgy I would use them individually. If I was to say his "state of being", "was" or "is" something, then I would be restricting a person to a time and place, which would suggest a physical state of being. By using "being" im simple expressing a state of existence, or potiental state of existence. Im not restricting a person to a particular time or place. The past, present and future are broad, so you cant really put it in the box of "state of being". "State of being"refers to the physical world. "Being" does not. Thats why I said "state of existence" rather than, "state of being".
The state you posted, yes it said state of mind, but if you look at the example it gave, doesn't really mean what we are talking about here. Two if you look up existence, the being you posted doesn't really fit here either. And as far as being not necessarily referring to the physical world, uhhh, they all constitute an existent thing. Being, as far as we know, can only have existence in the physical world. Look at the definition you posted, all have to do with physical world. -
oliverlang wrote: »That's nature and instinct...not time. A Hippo does not say it's 1130, so let me move up north a bit. This is what I mean by man made concept. Time and the way we measure it. How can we measure time in space? in other galaxies? on other planets?
Also, the future is not gauranteed and hasn't happened yet...it cannot exist...the past has already happened how can it exist? You cannot exist in the future or the past, how can they exist? The past only exists in your memory and the future only exists in your dreams. The current moment that is ever changing is the only thing that truely exists.
Natural instinct based on time(measure of motion).
O, I made no mention of numbers and other man made concepts. I said time as a measure of motion. This goes beyond simple numerical attribution .
And I can exist in the future. Siddartma is not here, but he is here. Muhammad is not here but he is here. I live on through my work and my mind which is an extension of me.
And you can guarantee certain things if you perceptive enough. Prophecy is real.
I think your making the past, present, and future separate and distinct, which in my view it is not. They are connected. A continuum if you will.
I'm sonning you, but in a good way. LOL -
Natural instinct based on time(measure of motion).
O, I made no mention of numbers and other man made concepts. I said time as a measure of motion. This goes beyond simple numerical attribution .
And I can exist in the future. Siddartma is not here, but he is here. Muhammad is not here but he is here. I live on through my work and my mind which is an extension of me.
And you can guarantee certain things if you perceptive enough. Prophecy is real.
I disagree, instinct is not based on time. Instinct happens naturally. That is not a measure of motion, and even if it was...a measurement of any sort must include numbers and scales which are most definitely man made concepts. Also, Buddha and Muhammad only exist in your memory. They are not here existing physically. The idea of them and their teachings exist, but THEY don't. This is clinging onto an idea, but it's not physical. How can the past exist when it's gone...there is no way to go back to it. You cannot exist in it. You cannot exist in the future because once you get there it's now the present and within a 0.00000000001 second it becomes the past. Can you go back and change anything that happened in the past?I think your making the past, present, and future separate and distinct, which in my view it is not. They are connected. A continuum if you will.
I'm sonning you, but in a good way. LOL
I don't look at them separately because I don't acknowledge that the three exist. Only one...the present moment which never ceases and is forever changing like a running river.
You never have and never will son me. But, if you one day happen to luck up, I will be looking forward to learning something new. haha. -
If we consider "time" as something "real" we must also consider that it can be broken down into something smaller as everything in the universe can. Matter, atoms, energy etc... On that note, once time is at its most minute level it becomes inconsistent like everything else and contains gaps or holes. The gaps and holes are examples that show there is more than one "time" and are actuially multiple "times" interlaced that we have no ability to see or travel to because we do not have that kind of technology and apparently not even that kind of comprehension. There is a past yes, and we exist in it, as well as a present and future. Like I said before, we don't have the ability to comprehend that every thing happens at once. Pertaining to the size of the Universe being infinite what we consider "time" is not time at all.
If "Time" is just measurement to you and not a real thing then I tell you your scale is a terrible tool to measure something so large. Your ten digits are rediculous. Try to measure the circumfrence of a circle without using any of the same symbols that represent numbers and digits and then I say you have a powerful form of measurement. -
BiblicalAtheist wrote: »The state you posted, yes it said state of mind, but if you look at the example it gave, doesn't really mean what we are talking about here. Two if you look up existence, the being you posted doesn't really fit here either. And as far as being not necessarily referring to the physical world, uhhh, they all constitute an existent thing. Being, as far as we know, can only have existence in the physical world. Look at the definition you posted, all have to do with physical world.
Existence- 1 a obsolete : reality as opposed to appearance b : reality as presented in experience c (1) : the totality of existent things (2) : a particular being <all the fair existences of heaven — John Keats> d : sentient or living being : life
2 a : the state or fact of having being especially independently of human consciousness and as contrasted with nonexistence <the existence of other worlds> b : the manner of being that is common to every mode of being c : being with respect to a limiting condition or under a particular aspect
3 : actual or present occurrence <existence of a state of war>
Existence isnt restricted to the physical world. If you look at the definition I highlighted, it speaks of human consciousness and as contrasted with nonexistence. The future and the past may not phyiscally be here now but they do have a state of existence. The future is guaranteed to come as long as we are here in the present. Although it doesnt have a physical reality at the moment, it will have one. Even though the past no longer has a physical state of existence, it once had one, and it still does maintain a form of existence; and that form of existence is based solely on that fact that it existed as opposed to not existing at all. It once had a physical existence therefore it exists, therefore it has a state of being side by side with the present's state of being. Since the past existed it always has a state of existence, because the future exists it will have a state of existence, which means it already maintains that state even while we are in the present. You have to measure things in terms of nonexistence vs existence. If not, then because the past and the future arent here, is to say that one, the past, did not exist; and the other, the future, will not exist. To define these as such is to make it absolute.
I understand what you're saying about them dealing with the physical. Its true, each of these states of existence need the physical world to vaildate their existence. Once they exist however, the will forever maintain a state of existence. You cant say the past never existed because that would be the same as saying the present doesnt exist, which would mean the future wont exist; which would mean we wouldnt have a state of existence altogether. If you try to separate these three states, it would disrupt the entire construct. They are all dependent on each other for each of their existences, which means they all exist at the same time. They cant exist separate from each other. Its like the REAL holy trinity, Man, Woman and Child. They are all dependent on each other, one cannot exist with out the other. Although a child is not here, the promise of the child, or the potential creation of a child is always present so long as man and woman exist. As long as time exist-past, present and future, a child will grew into a man or a woman, which would vaildate the existence of another child. -
@bless the child
I'm not religious at all but this is also what I've been trying to explain in a scientific manner. They all must co-exist together in order for any "one" to exist. Its just seems most can't comprhend past being one conscious in one set time like its impossible. With the way they think we can never actually be here because the past never happened because we cant touch or feel it it never existed which makes no sense.
