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evoljeanyes wrote: »You made some great ass points. And I appreciate you having this conversation with me...
My point is that I think the fundamental different between Dems and Reps right now is that the dems want to teach us better how to manage our money put it back in our hands and hope they we delegate it properly this time around in hopes that the system doesn't crumble. The republicans are like man "? them folks" they have their chance they over spend, they are under educated, and they have been highly influenced by pop culture, so they will never save anything, they want to look the part" Neither of those arguments are invalid. Also if you're intelligent enough (as you seem to be) then you won't allow people to tell you how to distribute your money. (You feel me) Dog I applaud you for being only 200 bucks in debt. Let me ask you a question and i mean this respectfully bruh I promise, but did you go to college? (I ask because of your limited amount of debt, its not me questioning your intellect). Occupy Wall Street is cool, WS needs to accept some responsibility. But we also need to be strong enough to make our own decisions. You feel me. The argument could go either way. There is just too much blame placed on politicians I believe. That's why I usually end up taking their sides.
Responsibility is on both ends...we need to get together to clean this mess up and not be waiting for Barack to do it for us, because he can't if we're going to continue spending irresponsibly
No problem bro I always enjoy a nice, intellectual conversation. You have made great points yourself......
For the record I have such low debt because I graduated from Hunter College with grants and a scholarship. I didn't pay a dime for college, except to buy books. And you are right about Democrats and Republicans missing the ball when it comes to the problems facing America today, although in some ways I think Democrats are a LITTLE bit better than Republicans. Democrats seem to care more about the social safety nets that used to make America truly great, but now Democrats seem to also favor endless wars and irresponsible spending that is bankrupting America's future. I do agree that people in general should be more responsible with how they spend money and not be too concerned with looking fancy and catching up with the latest Oprah Winfrey fashion tips. Or the latest Jordan sneakers. Fiscal responsibility must be a bigger priority for govt officials AND citizens, no debate from me there. But politicians can help more by taking money citizens are PAYING through taxes and help better strengthen the social safety nets. Social Security is in trouble, why not spend less on war and more on funding ss??
Why not spend less money in Iraq and Afghanistan and spend more here building infrastructure and saving jobs?? Why bail out banks and corporations and not ALSO help bail out Americans who truly need one? That's all I ask. Overall I agree with you, this is bigger than Obama, it's a nationwide issue. But with great power comes great responsibility, and I expect more from our politicians, who have great power. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »No problem bro I always enjoy a nice, intellectual conversation. You have made great points yourself......
For the record I have such low debt because I graduated from Hunter College with grants and a scholarship. I didn't pay a dime for college, except to buy books. And you are right about Democrats and Republicans missing the ball when it comes to the problems facing America today, although in some ways I think Democrats are a LITTLE bit better than Republicans. Democrats seem to care more about the social safety nets that used to make America truly great, but now Democrats seem to also favor endless wars and irresponsible spending that is bankrupting America's future. I do agree that people in general should be more responsible with how they spend money and not be too concerned with looking fancy and catching up with the latest Oprah Winfrey fashion tips. Or the latest Jordan sneakers. Fiscal responsibility must be a bigger priority for govt officials AND citizens, no debate from me there. But politicians can help more by taking money citizens are PAYING through taxes and help better strengthen the social safety nets. Social Security is in trouble, why not spend less on war and more on funding ss??
Why not spend less money in Iraq and Afghanistan and spend more here building infrastructure and saving jobs?? Why bail out banks and corporations and not ALSO help bail out Americans who truly need one? That's all I ask. Overall I agree with you, this is bigger than Obama, it's a nationwide issue. But with great power comes great responsibility, and I expect more from our politicians, who have great power.
Do you not feel like the politicians are handcuffed by all the different directions we're pulling them in. Our ideas are unorganized. Conspiracy theorists, dems, republicans, they have to answer to all of this ? . What do you think the current staff is doing poorly? -
[QUOTE=kingblaze84;3919766]Inflation being below 3% now is only showing some of the picture. The bigger part of the picture is inflation and its effect on the dollar in America since the 1970s and 80s. When Reagan blew up the deficit thanks to irresponsible tax cuts and ridiculous defense spending, the dollar began losing its purchasing power. America in the 80s went from being the biggest lender of money to being the biggest borrower. That has had dramatic and disastrous effects on Americans, since the dollar now in America isn't worth very much. Most presidents since Reagan have only contributed to the problem due to continuing endless wars and stupid tax cuts for the rich that only help further bankrupt the nation. The video may be a joke in some ways, true.....but it's overall message is on point and that is the dollar isn't what it used to be. Even people who are employed are having a hard time in this economy. Why? Because a dollar doesn't go as far as it used to. Today, half of all Americans are now low income or in poverty. That is a devastating stat on America's behalf, much of it attributable to the dying breaths of the American dollar in America. Some here have said the dollar in Canada doesn't exchange well like it used to be. Ask yourself why....this isn't just doom and gloom, this is reality. There's a reason Americans hate Congress and DC right now.[/QUOTE]
(quick sidenote: the US dollar to CAD dollar exchange is 1.0384 meaning 1US$ to 1.04CAD$ so the claim made in here that the CAD dollar is somehow stronger is not true
> http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/currencies/ .. yes the dollar used to be stronger relative to the CAD dollar but remember other countries also grow economically not the the US.. its not the 50's anymore which the US & Europe were the only superpowers)
to the underlined: I assume you didnt look at my graphs bc if you had you would have noticed they all actually go back to the 1950's... inflation in the 70's was caused by OPEC (every person who's taken at least intro to micro/macro knows this).. And even though Reagan did blow up the deficit (3x over i believe) he did actually pass many tax increases, but thats besides the point (hopefully you realize I am in no way shape or form defending Reagan AT ALL [no sarcasm either]).. What I am getting at is even though the deficit was large inflation was actually subsiding in the 80's ----> http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=3Um .. which means debt/deficits and vast defense spending (which was as you stated ridiculous as so were/are the tax cuts to the rich) did not fuel inflation (or debasement of the dollar). It seems as you are stating the deficit (national & trade) fueled a depreciation in the dollar but by economic definition a trade or national deficit could only be sustained by a strong currency (artifically kept afloat or not). But you are right when you stated " America in the 80s went from being the biggest lender of money to being the biggest borrower."
Now are there many in poverty? Yes. But because "the dollar doesnt go far enough"? Again. No. Even if the dollar went far enough as you stated, they still would still be in poverty bc in our current state, most of them do not have jobs - I repeat - most of them do not have jobs/employment or are underemployed (working part-time when they would rather work full time) AND are suffering from sever debt over hang (which is why I stated earlier inflation is needed since it would erode the real value of debt making it easier for debtors to pay back loans).
"There's a reason Americans hate Congress and DC right now." And its not bc inflation &/or deficits/debt no matter how much Ron Paul/Schiff/ or any other investor screams it is (the bush years more than prove this).. Its literally because there are not enough jobs which is why direct government investment such as an infrastructure bank (i think I saw you say something like this before... i cannot remember) is greatly needed especially when nominal rates are below 3% & real rates are actually negative (which means it actually costs us more NOT to spend than it does TO spend). Best believe if the unemployment rate were below say 6%, EVERYONE would not care so much about whats going on in Congress (which is pretty sad but the cold reality) -
evoljeanyes wrote: »Do you not feel like the politicians are handcuffed by all the different directions we're pulling them in. Our ideas are unorganized. Conspiracy theorists, dems, republicans, they have to answer to all of this ? . What do you think the current staff is doing poorly?
Well with Americans so divided you have a very solid point. One thing is for sure though, Americans want us out of Afghanistan and most want all of our troops home from overseas. Most want SS and Medicare protected. Most want wasteful spending on wars and building stuff in Iraq and Afghanistan ceased. Politicians can take a look at what most of us want and start from there. I'm just scratching the surface on what most Americans want really. -
(quick sidenote: the US dollar to CAD dollar exchange is 1.0384 meaning 1US$ to 1.04CAD$ so the claim made in here that the CAD dollar is somehow stronger is not true
> http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/currencies/ .. yes the dollar used to be stronger relative to the CAD dollar but remember other countries also grow economically not the the US.. its not the 50's anymore which the US & Europe were the only superpowers)
to the underlined: I assume you didnt look at my graphs bc if you had you would have noticed they all actually go back to the 1950's... inflation in the 70's was caused by OPEC (every person who's taken at least intro to micro/macro knows this).. And even though Reagan did blow up the deficit (3x over i believe) he did actually pass many tax increases, but thats besides the point (hopefully you realize I am in no way shape or form defending Reagan AT ALL [no sarcasm either]).. What I am getting at is even though the deficit was large inflation was actually subsiding in the 80's ----> http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=3Um .. which means debt/deficits and vast defense spending (which was as you stated ridiculous as so were/are the tax cuts to the rich) did not fuel inflation (or debasement of the dollar). It seems as you are stating the deficit (national & trade) fueled a depreciation in the dollar but by economic definition a trade or national deficit could only be sustained by a strong currency (artifically kept afloat or not). But you are right when you stated " America in the 80s went from being the biggest lender of money to being the biggest borrower."
Now are there many in poverty? Yes. But because "the dollar doesnt go far enough"? Again. No. Even if the dollar went far enough as you stated, they still would still be in poverty bc in our current state, most of them do not have jobs - I repeat - most of them do not have jobs/employment or are underemployed (working part-time when they would rather work full time) AND are suffering from sever debt over hang (which is why I stated earlier inflation is needed since it would erode the real value of debt making it easier for debtors to pay back loans).
"There's a reason Americans hate Congress and DC right now." And its not bc inflation &/or deficits/debt no matter how much Ron Paul/Schiff/ or any other investor screams it is (the bush years more than prove this).. Its literally because there are not enough jobs which is why direct government investment such as an infrastructure bank (i think I saw you say something like this before... i cannot remember) is greatly needed especially when nominal rates are below 3% & real rates are actually negative (which means it actually costs us more NOT to spend than it does TO spend). Best believe if the unemployment rate were below say 6%, EVERYONE would not care so much about whats going on in Congress (which is pretty sad but the cold reality)
I see what you're saying, but inflation has more negatives than positives. Inflation never helps Americans in the long run. Many people have full time jobs and still struggle to pay the bills because the dollar is so weakened by inflation. Ron Paul has given many good speeches on the minefields and dangers of long term inflation, so have many other economists. I have a date tonight but I'll pull off some facts later on why inflation is destroying the dollar and why it is never a good thing in the long run. The rich may not mind inflation, but the poor and middle class will always suffer brutally under the disastrous effects of a weakened currency. People seem to be working longer and harder for the same if not less pay. Inflation is one of the key culprits of this extremely major problem. A janitor back in the 1960s and 70s and even early 80s could work full time hours and live a decent middle class life. A janitor working full time hours now will be lucky to have his own apartment. I would know, I know a couple. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »Well with Americans so divided you have a very solid point. One thing is for sure though, Americans want us out of Afghanistan and most want all of our troops home from overseas. Most want SS and Medicare protected. Most want wasteful spending on wars and building stuff in Iraq and Afghanistan ceased. Politicians can take a look at what most of us want and start from there. I'm just scratching the surface on what most Americans want really.
Word, my thing about the war is I don't have any idea where the money is going. So, I am not sure how they could cut the spending on it. In GA they just spent 1.2bil to fix the lining on the highways and ? . Those types of things need to stop.
Are you going to be voting next time around?
How do you feel about Ron Paul? -
Watch the video, it's long but I'm sure you guys can find an hour some time in a week to sit down and watch this. (you spend that typing and reading ? )
(basically talking about the value of the US dollar right now and its future, and how other countries want nothing to do w our money. Collapse of the US dollar is eminent and we are screwed.)
Discuss.
No one has any thoughts?
i thought they were trying to make a world currency anyway ............. -
evoljeanyes wrote: »Word, my thing about the war is I don't have any idea where the money is going. So, I am not sure how they could cut the spending on it. In GA they just spent 1.2bil to fix the lining on the highways and ? . Those types of things need to stop.
Are you going to be voting next time around?
How do you feel about Ron Paul?
I'll be voting third party next year, most likely for the Green Party. They seem to favor most of my views, especially when it comes to legalizing or decriminalizing marijuana, higher taxes on the wealthy, and ending the wars. I like Ron Paul in some ways, I really love his foreign policy ideas. I wouldn't vote for him though because he wants to eliminate the EPA and other govt institutions that protect the health of the American people. -
its over: 2012! wrote: »quickest-sidenote: I made that reference, as a model as an example as a tangible element, but not as an exact number when I was just making the point... that the dollar's worth has shrunk, drastically. that's all.
Skinny: think about it, just 9 years ago, the CAD xchg. rate was $1.58 to $1US...now today, they're about even
Let's not split hairs, for discourse
Exactly why inflation in the long run is a horrible thing. Goods and services become more and more expensive, it does force Americans to spend but how can people save money when they are constantly being forced to spend more for basic services??? The dollar is dying and that should be very clear by now to the avg person. The euro isn't doing much better though......that spells trouble for America big time. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »I see what you're saying, but inflation has more negatives than positives. Inflation never helps Americans in the long run. Many people have full time jobs and still struggle to pay the bills because the dollar is so weakened by inflation. Ron Paul has given many good speeches on the minefields and dangers of long term inflation, so have many other economists. I have a date tonight but I'll pull off some facts later on why inflation is destroying the dollar and why it is never a good thing in the long run. The rich may not mind inflation, but the poor and middle class will always suffer brutally under the disastrous effects of a weakened currency. People seem to be working longer and harder for the same if not less pay. Inflation is one of the key culprits of this extremely major problem. A janitor back in the 1960s and 70s and even early 80s could work full time hours and live a decent middle class life. A janitor working full time hours now will be lucky to have his own apartment. I would know, I know a couple.
to bolded: the rich HATE inflation, since inflation erodes the real value of their investments (i interned for a few financial consultants & cannot count how many times I had to answer questions about inflation).
But like i've beeeeeeeen saying the middle class NEEDS inflation through wages (ie an increase in real wages). Yes, ppl in the 60s-70s worked regular blue collar jobs and could afford a decent living because wages kept up with inflation for the most part. Starting around the 80's real wages began to stagnate have have since (and have been declining ---> http://www.econbrowser.com/archives/2005/12/declining_real.html ). So its not because the dollar became sooo weak (which according to your own logic should have actually been reversed in the 90's during Rubin/Clinton/Summers strong dollar policy/agenda) or that inflation was reaching Zimbabwe levels.
And actually what we need right now is a weakened currency (which wont happen because of Ron Paul and his disciples plus manipulation via China) because without direct government intervention or adjustments in expected inflation created by the Fed, the only way to grow our economy would be through exports.
Now im not saying inflation all-the-time-every-time is good. On the contrary, inflation can be a bad thing (whether its through cost-pull or demand-push). In the long run the best thing for everyone is stable inflation (of around 3-4%) with wages rising modestly to match prices, which has not been happening since the 80s. -
its over: 2012! wrote: »quickest-sidenote: I made that reference, as a model as an example as a tangible element, but not as an exact number when I was just making the point... that the dollar's worth has shrunk, drastically. that's all.
Skinny: think about it, just 9 years ago, the CAD xchg. rate was $1.58 to $1US...now today, they're about even
Let's not split hairs, for discourse
Oh okay. Yeah I know thats why I was careful to state "yes the dollar used to be stronger relative to the CAD dollar but remember other countries also grow economically not the the US.. its not the 50's anymore which the US & Europe were the only superpowers"
I cant help it. Economics is more technical than people actually realize, but I get the point you were eluding to. -
that's currently
it's been fluctuating a lot lately
last year at one point i saw on XE.com that the exchange rate was somethin like 1.20 for every CDN dollar
considering 1 american dollar used to be equal to 1.5 X a canadian dollar tho, your dollar has lost immense power.
XE.com?? *add to favorites* .. Yeah the dollar has gotten weaken (as countries have gotten stronger economically) but that is bound to happen.. cant stay king of the hill forever, sooner or later your competitors will get stronger. -
to bolded: the rich HATE inflation, since inflation erodes the real value of their investments (i interned for a few financial consultants & cannot count how many times I had to answer questions about inflation).
But like i've beeeeeeeen saying the middle class NEEDS inflation through wages (ie an increase in real wages). Yes, ppl in the 60s-70s worked regular blue collar jobs and could afford a decent living because wages kept up with inflation for the most part. Starting around the 80's real wages began to stagnate have have since (and have been declining ---> http://www.econbrowser.com/archives/2005/12/declining_real.html ). So its not because the dollar became sooo weak (which according to your own logic should have actually been reversed in the 90's during Rubin/Clinton/Summers strong dollar policy/agenda) or that inflation was reaching Zimbabwe levels.
And actually what we need right now is a weakened currency (which wont happen because of Ron Paul and his disciples plus manipulation via China) because without direct government intervention or adjustments in expected inflation created by the Fed, the only way to grow our economy would be through exports.
Now im not saying inflation all-the-time-every-time is good. On the contrary, inflation can be a bad thing (whether its through cost-pull or demand-push). In the long run the best thing for everyone is stable inflation (of around 3-4%) with wages rising modestly to match prices, which has not been happening since the 80s.
I hear you but a weakened currency without rising wages spells a national disaster. If wages were to be increased throughout the nation in a dramatic fashion than I wouldn't mind inflation but that's not happening now (although I recently got hired by a company paying me higher wages than my last job). The sad reality is that unemployment among veterans is now 30%, and unemployment still holds 14 million Americans at least hostage. Because of that, inflation is not a good thing for society right now. Too many people are being priced out of the American Dream. -
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kingblaze84 wrote: »I hear you but a weakened currency without rising wages spells a national disaster. If wages were to be increased throughout the nation in a dramatic fashion than I wouldn't mind inflation but that's not happening now (although I recently got hired by a company paying me higher wages than my last job). The sad reality is that unemployment among veterans is now 30%, and unemployment still holds 14 million Americans at least hostage. Because of that, inflation is not a good thing for society right now. Too many people are being priced out of the American Dream.
Iight..seems like we are on the same side of most things.. I feel you on the undelined. Im abdicating inflation right now bc we need higher real wages AND inflation (at modest levels of course) erodes real debt levels that are currently constraining consumer consumption (most ppl are struggling to pay off loans whether its a school loan or mortgage)... -
Good posts fam.
@ the bolded interestingly enough, last April I spoke with Prem Watsa - Chairman & CEO of Fairfax Financial & he shared a similar view. He thinks that the U.S. is going to de-leverage it's debt & as a result it's currency will deflate & a deflationary period will occur. Dude is betting $1 billion dollars on it. It's gonna be some very interesting times in the short & long run.
Good lookin... Yea I remember you saying this back awhile ago in a different thread... Not to slight him but I hope we dont get deflation ala Japan-style (Japan is still struggling to get out of the deflation trap). But I think we are gunna be forced to de-leverage in this weak economy, thus forcing millions through un-needed (at this time anyways) hardship. -
Iight..seems like we are on the same side of most things.. I feel you on the undelined. Im abdicating inflation right now bc we need higher real wages AND inflation (at modest levels of course) erodes real debt levels that are currently constraining consumer consumption (most ppl are struggling to pay off loans whether its a school loan or mortgage)...
Yep the middle class and working class are being squeezed from two sides, rising costs of living and lower wages. It's a set up that is almost guaranteeing America's downfall in the long run. -
Here are some facts that show just how ? up the American dollar is right now.......this may shock some of you but it's all real.
http://news.yahoo.com/50-facts-u-economy-shock-205804459.html
1. A staggering 48 percent of all Americans are either considered to be “low income” or are living in poverty.
2. Approximately 57 percent of all children in the United States are living in homes that are either considered to be “low income” or impoverished.
3. If the number of Americans that “wanted jobs” was the same today as it was back in 2007, the “official” unemployment rate put out by the U.S. government would be up to 11 percent.
4. The average amount of time that a worker stays unemployed in the United States is now over 40 weeks.
5. One recent survey found that 77 percent of all U.S. small businesses do not plan to hire any more workers.
6. There are fewer payroll jobs in the United States today than there were back in 2000 even though we have added 30 million extra people to the population since then.
7. Since December 2007, median household income in the United States has declined by a total of 6.8 percent once you account for inflation.
8. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 16.6 million Americans were self-employed back in December 2006. Today, that number has shrunk to 14.5 million.
9. A Gallup poll from earlier this year found that approximately one out of every five Americans that do have a job consider themselves to be underemployed.
10. According to author Paul Osterman, about 20 percent of all U.S. adults are currently working jobs that pay poverty-level wages.
11. Back in 1980, less than 30 percent of all jobs in the United States were low income jobs. Today, more than 40 percent of all jobs in the United States are low income jobs.
12. Back in 1969, 95 percent of all men between the ages of 25 and 54 had a job. In July, only 81.2 percent of men in that age group had a job.
13. One recent survey found that one out of every three Americans would not be able to make a mortgage or rent payment next month if they suddenly lost their current job.
14. The Federal Reserve recently announced that the total net worth of U.S. households declined by 4.1 percent in the 3rd quarter of 2011 alone.
15. According to a recent study conducted by the BlackRock Investment Institute, the ratio of household debt to personal income in the United States is now 154 percent.
There are more shocking facts in the link, for just a hint of how bad things are, 53% of all kids in Detroit and Cleveland live in poverty.
-Of course, after going through all these numbers, the obvious question is, “how has it come to this?” The Economic Collapse has a simple answer:
. . . the heart of our economic problems is the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve is a perpetual debt machine, it has almost completely destroyed the value of the U.S. dollar and it has an absolutely nightmarish track record of incompetence. If the Federal Reserve system had never been created, the U.S. economy would be in far better shape. The federal government needs to shut down the Federal Reserve and start issuing currency that is not debt-based. -
sion thinking of buying AMR while its in the dumps...what u think ?
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American housing market is coming back stronger than ever....
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-21/u-s-existing-homes-sold-since-2007-revised-down-by-14-magnifying-slump.html
Guess Buffett was right.... he said housing would bounce back by late 2012, I thought it'd take longer.
I hope this info is right. I saw a report the other day that companies were exaggerating housing sales and building for years. Hope this isn't the case again..... -
Sad story here. Other countries aren't that much better off though are they? If it's not one thing its another.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM-c8PxPZXQ
