What is Religion?

whar67
whar67 Members Posts: 542
edited January 2010 in R & R (Religion and Race)
I often see people claim that my atheism or trust in science is a religion. I thought I would create a thread address the definition of religion.

According to Websters the Religion means ; (1) the service and worship of ? or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance. Secondary meanings include " a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices" and " a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith"

Faith 1. allegiance to duty or a person which is not the definition in regards to religious beliefs but instead " firm belief in something for which there is no proof"

Belief - for the sake of this post will use both conventional meanings including " a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing" and "conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence"

I believe in ? .
I believe I will have tacos for dinner tonight.

Both statements use 'belief' correctly but differently.

In a religion a set of beliefs are defined and presented as truths. Often these ideas are quite sound and have merit, like "Do unto others as you would have done unto you". However their merit is not intrinsically defined but rather assigned merit by claim it to be divine revelation or sacred. The concept of sacred and holy is very much limited to religion. It only finds its way into secular realms to identify 'bad' or rigid thinking. Therefore to call something a religion it must have a set of beliefs and, at least some of these, must by sacred.

Both faith and the religious use of the term belief are uncumbered by evidence. In fact evidence need play no part in religion. Zororasterism have been waiting for their messiah for almost 4,000 years. You would think they would have given up by now, but they keep chugging along. Mormons had thier faith invented whole cloth not 150 years ago without a shred of evidence and they have their own state now.

So to sum up as I do not have much time

1. Religions have sets of beliefs shared by their followers
2. Faith is a needed component to accept these beliefs

Therefore atheism is not a religion since it has only one tenet, namely there are no supernatural answers. And it does not require faith to reach this conclusion.

Comments

  • BOSS KTULU
    BOSS KTULU Banned Users Posts: 978 ✭✭
    edited January 2010
    Tacos don't exist.
  • Focal Point
    Focal Point Members Posts: 16,307 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2010
    religion= a club for believers in a particular idea and thought
  • Mr. AJ
    Mr. AJ Members Posts: 1,706 ✭✭
    edited January 2010
    Religion is ritual slavery
  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2010
    Everyone is a slave to something. It just depends whether or not a religion (or whatever) is oppressive in it's nature.
  • And Step
    And Step Members Posts: 3,726 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2010
    A way of life that keeps you in harmony with creation.

    You see the validity of this when people live a ignorant, licentious based lifestyle and it catches up to them.
  • Hyde Parke
    Hyde Parke Members Posts: 2,573 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2010
    hmmm...

    lets see,

    I believe in ?
    I believe I will have tacos tonight.

    I think i see what your problem is. There is no difference in these statements. Actually, the answer is in the question. Look at those two statements and you can see that they are not equal, for the latter statement has the introduction of time. The first does not. Without getting to scientific here. What you are failing to reason, or maybe not understanding, is that just as you may have your tacos tonight, that originated from your belief, the person who believes in ? will see ? , at a certain point in space/ time. We are a three dimensional people, and I would strongly encourage you to educate yourself on fourth dimension and beyond. That is if you are really serious. It seems your whole premise, here in this thread is centered around the concept of time.
  • whar67
    whar67 Members Posts: 542
    edited January 2010
    "So to sum up as I do not have much time

    1. Religions have sets of beliefs shared by their followers
    2. Faith is a needed component to accept these beliefs

    Therefore atheism is not a religion since it has only one tenet, namely there are no supernatural answers. And it does not require faith to reach this conclusion. "

    I actually wrote "to sum up" and you got time as the point of my post?

    My premise in this post is faith is a requirement of religion. The difference between the two beliefs is one requires faith the other does not.
  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2010
    I like to think that there is also a faith element to knowledge as well. We may not call it faith, but there is a certain blindness we have. Atheism trust that this understanding is true because by mere observation, no supernatural entity exists. However, there is the tendency put a lot more on this observation: If you can't see ? when you live, you definitely can't see ? when you die. An atheist nor a Christian can say they know ? will be there in Death, but there is the confidence that one of these things are true.
  • Hyde Parke
    Hyde Parke Members Posts: 2,573 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2010
    Wow..you did not read my post at all. Or it went completely over your head.. This just goes to show that you have already arrived at the conclusion. So why post a thread posing a question if you already have the answers?
  • whar67
    whar67 Members Posts: 542
    edited January 2010
    Hyde Parke wrote: »
    Wow..you did not read my post at all. Or it went completely over your head.. This just goes to show that you have already arrived at the conclusion. So why post a thread posing a question if you already have the answers?

    Time has nothing to do with this post.

    Drop 'tonight' from my statement and nothing materially changes.

    If you are agrueing the theist think 'I will see ? when I am dead' and therefore the statements are similar since they express a belief that will occur at a certain point in time you again miss the premise.

    I will see ? tonight
    I will have tacos tonight

    The first statement requires faith while the second does not.
  • Hyde Parke
    Hyde Parke Members Posts: 2,573 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2010
    Explain how the first statement requires faith, yet the second does not.

    If time has nothing to do with your post, then why did you make reference to it?


    Please answer thoroughly.
  • Hyde Parke
    Hyde Parke Members Posts: 2,573 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2010
    and when pulling definitions,it is best to post them all, not just the ones that support your "beliefs". Doing otherwise, strongly suggests that you are trying to persuade the reader to think a certain way. Faith has more than one meaning. Its not soley religious.

    faith-

    religion: a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; "he lost his faith but not his morality"

    complete confidence in a person or plan etc; "he cherished the faith of a good woman"; "the doctor-patient relationship is based on trust"

    religion: an institution to express belief in a divine power; "he was raised in the Baptist religion"; "a member of his own faith contradicted him"

    loyalty or allegiance to a cause or a person; "keep the faith"; "they broke faith with their investors"
  • whar67
    whar67 Members Posts: 542
    edited January 2010
    Faith b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof
    Proof the cogency of evidence that compels acceptance by the mind of a truth or a fact

    When I use faith in this post I am using faith according to this defintion. When using proof I am using its meaning as a set of evidence and not an absolute mathmatical truth.

    Also I should not have used the open 'I believe ? exists' in my first post as one can structure arguements to support that statement that do not rely on faith. I believe all these arguements are invalid but to avoid rehashing any of them I will concede the point.

    However if we use 'I will see ? tonight' or 'I believe the Holy Bible to be the word of ? '. These beliefs require faith.

    'I will have tacos tonight' simply requires a desire to have tacos, the free will to achieve this, and the opportunity.

    While the statement may ultimately turn out false it does not require faith to believe when it is uttered.
  • whar67
    whar67 Members Posts: 542
    edited January 2010
    As for why I went with 'I will have tacos tonight' I had just talked with my girlfriend and I was very hungry. My mind moved to her daughter who loves to make tacos for dinner. This lead to using a statement that would be in response to 'What will you have for dinner?" ... "I beleive I will have tacos tonight." Though full disclosure this was either the night we went out for steak or I had cold pizza. Either case tacos were not for dinner.