Who is the GOAT Underground Rapper/Group/Clique?
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bignorm73
Banned Users Posts: 5,031 ✭✭✭
Think about it, when taking into account "body of work", this argument is as hard to make as the
mainstream goat argument.
I'd like to hear some of yalls, and your reasons.
For me, the goat underground emcee would either be:
Masta Ace or Murs.
I am listening to Love and Rockets, and its a very solid album. Pretty good.
I just realized, Murs could be the best storyteller in rap. When you also add in
his group work, work with 9th, Living Legends, etc, he has a STRONG catalog.
His worst work was his major label album.
As for "group" I'd have to say the Roots, Cannibal Ox or Boot Camp.
As far as "Click or Collective" it would be Native Tongues and Justus League.
When you think of Justus and affilates, they have ALOT of people with good solo
albums/talent.
Little Brother
Big Pooh
Phonte
9th
Scudda
Von Pea
Median etc.
mainstream goat argument.
I'd like to hear some of yalls, and your reasons.
For me, the goat underground emcee would either be:
Masta Ace or Murs.
I am listening to Love and Rockets, and its a very solid album. Pretty good.
I just realized, Murs could be the best storyteller in rap. When you also add in
his group work, work with 9th, Living Legends, etc, he has a STRONG catalog.
His worst work was his major label album.
As for "group" I'd have to say the Roots, Cannibal Ox or Boot Camp.
As far as "Click or Collective" it would be Native Tongues and Justus League.
When you think of Justus and affilates, they have ALOT of people with good solo
albums/talent.
Little Brother
Big Pooh
Phonte
9th
Scudda
Von Pea
Median etc.
Comments
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Good thread, would you class The Roots as underground though? I wouldn't seeing as they're on Def Jam.
GOAT underground group goes to CunninLynguists, IMO. I don't think anyone comes close to them with their body of work. Considering their continual run of 4/5 to 5/5 albums since their inception in 2001. A decade of greatness. Lyrically they're superior to most, but production wise, there's no better than Kno, IMO. APOS, ? Acres (4/5) and Oneirology, their last three albums are all worthy of Album of the Year nominations. Add to that SouthernUnderground and Will Rap for Food and you quickly have a group with 5 albums over a ten year period that match up with anyones catalog, be it independent or mainstream. CunninLynguists are a GOAT consideration for any group mainstream or not.
Greatest underground rapper could arguably go to Masta Ace. He's had considerable albums that make him close to a GOAT mainstream or underground rapper. I have to give it to him, but he's had considerable lukewarm albums too, which perhaps go against him for unreasonable reasons. When considering GOAT underground rapper, there's such a vast selection that it's difficult to make. So much so, that I'll withdraw from making the consideration so soon, without thought.
As for clique, do labels count as cliques to you Norm? Do they have to have a collective release? It's your thread, so I'll take this into consideration before making my decision...
Props, great thread :tu -
Good thread, would you class The Roots as underground though? I wouldn't seeing as they're on Def Jam.
GOAT underground group goes to CunninLynguists, IMO. I don't think anyone comes close to them with their body of work. Considering their continual run of 4/5 to 5/5 albums since their inception in 2001. A decade of greatness. Lyrically they're superior to most, but production wise, there's no better than Kno, IMO. APOS, ? Acres (4/5) and Oneirology, their last three albums are all worthy of Album of the Year nominations. Add to that SouthernUnderground and Will Rap for Food and you quickly have a group with 5 albums over a ten year period that match up with anyones catalog, be it independent or mainstream. CunninLynguists are a GOAT consideration for any group mainstream or not.
Greatest underground rapper could arguably go to Masta Ace. He's had considerable albums that make him close to a GOAT mainstream or underground rapper. I have to give it to him, but he's had considerable lukewarm albums too, which perhaps go against him for unreasonable reasons. When considering GOAT underground rapper, there's such a vast selection that it's difficult to make. So much so, that I'll withdraw from making the consideration so soon, without thought.
As for clique, do labels count as cliques to you Norm? Do they have to have a collective release? It's your thread, so I'll take this into consideration before making my decision...
Props, great thread :tu
I dont think labels should count. I am talking about folks who refer to themselves as a clique/collective.
As for the Roots, yeah, i was trying not to say Little Brother, lol. The Roots are kinda mainstream. But they
keep the underground feel.
As for Cunnylinguists, they never caught me. Dont know why. I feel the same way about Fashawn. People always
give me the side eye for those views lol. -
I dont think labels should count. I am talking about folks who refer to themselves as a clique/collective.
As for the Roots, yeah, i was trying not to say Little Brother, lol. The Roots are kinda mainstream. But they
keep the underground feel.
As for Cunnylinguists, they never caught me. Dont know why. I feel the same way about Fashawn. People always
give me the side eye for those views lol.
Okay, I think Justus League are pretty strong then... but I'll have a consideration period before I go with it lol.
Yeah, I mean, if you include The Roots, I think they're the greatest collective of all time... perhaps second to ATCQ. They've varied with members a lot, so they're debatable for that reason too, but Black Thought is one of the Greatest of All Time...
I'm really surprised that CunninLynguists don't catch everyone's attention. They literally bring something that trumps everyone else... I don't know if you've viewed it, but if you'd give them a shot, my Artist of the Month: CunninLynguists - A Decade of Genius, is worth a look!
Fashawn's forgivable though given his one direction production from Exile, that I think is outstanding, where as others may not; add to that his mix tapes, which are arguably average to good and you can argue your point well. I think his sophomore album may cement his place as a great artist though... he definitely needs to follow up Boy Meets World solidly or he' could fall by the wayside given the long absence. -
IMO, GOAT Underground group of this generation..although they haven't done much as a collective is Justus League. They are the Native Tongues of the '00, anyone involved with them over the past few years... even groups like Tanya Morgan, have all lead good followings.
When it comes to Underground rappers, when we talk about veterans, its a tie between Masta Ace and Kool G Rap...both have been still dropping gems for a long time, since the Juice Crew. When we talk about this generation of GOAT rapper/producer...I can't think of anyone who has had an impact on the mic and beats than J-Dilla, Madlib would've been a pick too, but singlehandedly Dilla was shaping hip hop...even with Slum Village.
I'm post my GOAT Record Label as well later -
Madlib deserves strong consideration.
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CunninLynguists, Atmosphere, The Roots
all good candidates
Tech N9ne is still considered underground right?
if he is then he is the best solo undergound artist -
Ajax McJones wrote: »CunninLynguists, Atmosphere, The Roots
all good candidates
Tech N9ne is still considered underground right?
if he is then he is the best solo undergound artist
Good choice. Yeah, a verse on a Weezy album dont mean he aint underground lol -
Madlib deserves strong consideration.
And normally I would give it to him, but J Dilla deserves it too! However IMO Madlib is the face of Stones Throw!! -
Even though they blew up a little bit in the 90s, I'd have to say Boot Camp Clik.
Their entire roster is strong both individually and as a collective.
Both Sean Price and Buckshot dropped heat in 2011... that's longevity...
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Good drops so far...... kool g rap, big l, immortal tech, canibus
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Also dead prez, Jedi mind tricks and I guess az can be considered underground but my personal goat would be cormega
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Ras Kass- Van Gogh one of the most slept on albums, Institutionalized Vol 2 killer
Yeah My goat underground or even mainstream is Kass -
Rapper
Im Gonna have to go with Blu i think. Below the Heavens is easily in my top 3 albums of all time. When i hear blu rap, i may be wrong, but it just feels honest. Atleast on Below The Heavens. And i appreciate that in an artist. i know a lot of rappers have there "character" but when i hear blu rapping its almost like youd hear it if you had a conversation with dude. only thing i dont like is how he releases his music.
Group
Id have to go with Cunninlynguists. Pretty much all the same reasons as Ruff, first album i heard was will rap for food and everytime after than when they release an album it is on repeat for a minimum of 2 months. I played Southernunderground almost everyday for a year (had a job where i was driving haha) They can give you emotional, political, concious, anything and they can deliver, even there mixtapes (Sloppy seconds/Strange Journey) were great imo. Kno is a amazing producer and his sample flips are crazy. he has albums called Excrementals which are just his instrumentals from different songs, but on some tracks he will preview the sample he used and then itll go to the beat, and he can make a love song turn into a hard ass song.
Click
Probably Justus League. Been listening to everyone of them since LB dropped the Minstrel Show, they got a great group of in house producers and their rappers are great. And a majority of them are from the south and they started popping when the south was gettin ? for being whack. -
Jesus some of the people u guys named makes my list look like glorified mainstream artist lol
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Blue dont have enough work in. But he does to me have my top underground album ever tho, so good drop.
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masterofceremonies wrote: »K-RINO OR APATHY
group-jedi minds
click/collective-ARMY OF THE PHARAOHS
Can't really knock that, they have some of the best lyricists, period. But I feel that my vote is edging ever closer to Justus League still…Lou Cypher wrote: »Rapper
Im Gonna have to go with Blu i think.
Damn, Lou, seriously? I am a fan of dude, but I don't think he's been in my top 5 of the last two years… can't knock it though, as he really does have his place as the potential will forever be there as he continues to find his way in the music biz… I think he has shown what he can do on BTH, but one classic album can't really compete with Masta Ace for instance, IMO. But that's because Masta Ace has been through his career somewhat already; so I can feel that the GOAT independent artist could be someone as fresh as Blu, and perhaps should be. Good choice.Lou Cypher wrote: »Group
Id have to go with Cunninlynguists. Pretty much all the same reasons as Ruff
Nice drop, it's strange that CunninLynguists aren't heralded as much as Atmosphere, IMO.And_So_It_Burns wrote: »Jesus some of the people u guys named makes my list look like glorified mainstream artist lol
Stick around and you'll learn a lot about the underground if you haven't been peeping The Essence :tuBlue dont have enough work in. But he does to me have my top underground album ever tho, so good drop.
I'm with you on this. -
Joey prolly aint the best rapper on his block.
LOL I don't think he's that bad... but he's definitely not deserving of the thread, IMO. -
Madlib
Hes been holding it down. -
Papoose/Hood Hefna
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz3x3XeqDwc
