Someone Please break down for me the different offensive systems in the NFL
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i agree. but im sayin systems dont hide flaws. if anything they expose them. see kurt warner.
i dont know why yall seem to think im sayin every great QB in existence is a system QB. i named one name.
im not just saying you , im talking about what i see around CS ....seems like every current Successful QB is being labeled a "System QB'
Guys like Joe Flacco and Carson Palmer right now are mediocre guys , there's no way they could do what Brady,Brees,Rodgers does if u were to switch them out just based off a "System" -
sorry, us regular joes aint all got time to be sittin in the basement analyzing game film. do enlighten everyone, from your extensive experience as an offensive coordinator in the NFL.
I'm a regular Joe. My answer would be I don't know. Nobody sitting home watching TV, with no high level playing experience or connection to the game, can intelligently speak on the intricasies of NFL systems (routes, play calls, the jargon, protection, audibles, etc.)
Speaking in general is fine but anything more than that you look like a clown... -
no you over simplifying.
some do better in certain systems. some are good no matter what. a great deal are just mediocre and bad QB's.
im not part of the brady and rodgers are "system QBs" crowd, but there is a reason that term exists. its not a myth.
systems arent supposed to hide QB flaws, it (is supposed to) accentuates your TEAMS strengths.
You're absolutely right some QB's are a better fit for certain systems. Some fit better in the West Coast Offense ( ex. Brett Favre, John Elway, Joe Montana etc) and some fit better in The Air Coryell/Vertical Offense like the Chargers and '99 rams run or ran(Dan Marino, Phillip Rivers, Kurt Warner etc) and some like Brady and roethlisberger (I think the steelers use a similar system as the Pats but Steelers fans feel free to correct me) play in a hybridized system called the Erhardt-Perkins offensive system.
A good example of your point is Brett Favre and Kurt Warner for example, Brett played in the WCO in GB, when he got traded to the Jets who ran a Variation of the Coryell Offense, he wasn't as good, not because he couldn't push the ball down the field vertically like the coryell asks, but the terminology was different then the WCO (The offense uses a specific naming system, with the routes for wide receivers and tight ends receiving three digit numbers, and routes for backs having unique names. For example, a pass play in 3 digit form might be "Split Right 787 check swing, check V") which can be very complex for someone that's a gunslinger like brett, and likes to move out of the pocket, which the coryell typically is for "pocket passers". Also you're supposed to throw to a certain spot on the field before the receiver gets there, it's based on timing and rhythm whereas Brett was used to throwing what he sees, or at the receiver.
Now Kurt Warner was the opposite, coming from the Air Coryell System that Mike Martz and ? Vermil employed. The passing game was based on timing and rhythm, and coaching the system required a lot of repetition. It often puts receivers in motion. With the new defensive rules limiting contact to near the line of scrimmage, receivers in motion would be virtually impossible to jam. Coryell not only placed wide receivers in motion, he did so with tight ends and running backs as well. Putting the players in motion also had the advantage of allowing the quarterback to determine pre-snap if the defense would be playing zone or man-to-man defense, which Martz does a lot of. After getting beat to a pulp in the Martz version of the coryell system, when he went to the Giants he sucked because it wasn't the same system, when he went to Arizona and Wisenhunt took over it was a hybrid system that employed a lot of the coryell language and "system".
As a Bears fan I feel the Cutler would be a better fit in the WCO, with the roll outs, audibles, and quick strikes, thats why I think it works so well for Aaron Rodgers because he's a mobile QB, that's allowed to audible and hit quick strikes, whereas Phillip Rivers is
perfect for the Air Coryell, because he is a pocket passer who fits in Norv's "system"
Overall, you're correct in your point, but If I'm wrong about the systems please feel free to correct me. -
**********************You're absolutely right some QB's are a better fit for certain systems. Some fit better in the West Coast Offense ( ex. Brett Favre, John Elway, Joe Montana etc) and some fit better in The Air Coryell/Vertical Offense like the Chargers and '99 rams run or ran(Dan Marino, Phillip Rivers, Kurt Warner etc) and some like Brady and roethlisberger (I think the steelers use a similar system as the Pats but Steelers fans feel free to correct me) play in a hybridized system called the Erhardt-Perkins offensive system.
A good example of your point is Brett Favre and Kurt Warner for example, Brett played in the WCO in GB, when he got traded to the Jets who ran a Variation of the Coryell Offense, he wasn't as good, not because he couldn't push the ball down the field vertically like the coryell asks, but the terminology was different then the WCO (The offense uses a specific naming system, with the routes for wide receivers and tight ends receiving three digit numbers, and routes for backs having unique names. For example, a pass play in 3 digit form might be "Split Right 787 check swing, check V") which can be very complex for someone that's a gunslinger like brett, and likes to move out of the pocket, which the coryell typically is for "pocket passers". Also you're supposed to throw to a certain spot on the field before the receiver gets there, it's based on timing and rhythm whereas Brett was used to throwing what he sees, or at the receiver.
Now Kurt Warner was the opposite, coming from the Air Coryell System that Mike Martz and ? Vermil employed. The passing game was based on timing and rhythm, and coaching the system required a lot of repetition. It often puts receivers in motion. With the new defensive rules limiting contact to near the line of scrimmage, receivers in motion would be virtually impossible to jam. Coryell not only placed wide receivers in motion, he did so with tight ends and running backs as well. Putting the players in motion also had the advantage of allowing the quarterback to determine pre-snap if the defense would be playing zone or man-to-man defense, which Martz does a lot of. After getting beat to a pulp in the Martz version of the coryell system, when he went to the Giants he sucked because it wasn't the same system, when he went to Arizona and Wisenhunt took over it was a hybrid system that employed a lot of the coryell language and "system".
As a Bears fan I feel the Cutler would be a better fit in the WCO, with the roll outs, audibles, and quick strikes, thats why I think it works so well for Aaron Rodgers because he's a mobile QB, that's allowed to audible and hit quick strikes, whereas Phillip Rivers is
perfect for the Air Coryell, because he is a pocket passer who fits in Norv's "system"
Overall, you're correct in your point, but If I'm wrong about the systems please feel free to correct me.
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A good example of your point is Brett Favre and Kurt Warner for example, Brett played in the WCO in GB, when he got traded to the Jets who ran a Variation of the Coryell Offense, he wasn't as good, not because he couldn't push the ball down the field vertically like the coryell asks, but the terminology was different then the WCO (The offense uses a specific naming system, with the routes for wide receivers and tight ends receiving three digit numbers, and routes for backs having unique names. For example, a pass play in 3 digit form might be "Split Right 787 check swing, check V") which can be very complex for someone that's a gunslinger like brett, and likes to move out of the pocket, which the coryell typically is for "pocket passers". Also you're supposed to throw to a certain spot on the field before the receiver gets there, it's based on timing and rhythm whereas Brett was used to throwing what he sees, or at the receiver.
lmao or maybe its cause he was fuckn 40 yrs old and not worth a ? at that point
your example is horrible, you do realize he was injured half of the year right -
lmao or maybe its cause he was fuckn 40 yrs old and not worth a ? at that point
your example is horrible, you do realize he was injured half of the year right
he had one of his best season of his career AFTER that in minnesota tho lol
i wish matt ryan was that "worthless" -
right. the league is def. pass oriented and more specifically, vertical passing. so to that, i'd say players like Sanchez, alex smith and flacco could not survive in a vertical, pass heavy offense. but players like Brees, Brady, Rodgers would be just fine running the Jets, niners, or ravens offense.
this to me closed the thread
because to assert that a QB is a system qb is to assert that you can plug anyone in at his position and keep the machine running. In science and math, if an equation works to the right, it has to work to the left.
The moment you call "so and so" a system QB you have to:
A) state the system
state who else could excel in that system
C) state whether said "system player" would put the other team in a better position to win than the QB he's being compared to
Now you'll notice step B is where you have to do a front to back analysis. So if someone says, "Matthew Stafford could dominate if he was on the Packers."
My immediate response would be, probably, but would the Lions be better with Aaron Rodgers? If the answer is yes, ARod is no longer "just" a system QB.
That comparison has exposed that its ARods personal intangibles that would make the difference regardless of the team. -
i dont know why yall seem to think im sayin every great QB in existence is a system QB.
Because you are just an average joe sports fan. You aint puttin in the work that we do. Breaking down game film and what not -
he had one of his best season of his career AFTER that in minnesota tho lol
i wish matt ryan was that "worthless"
nah but he had serious shoulder problems that year -
Because you are just an average joe sports fan. You aint puttin in the work that we do. Breaking down game film and what not
/thread........... -
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lmao or maybe its cause he was fuckn 40 yrs old and not worth a ? at that point
your example is horrible, you do realize he was injured half of the year right
Yes he was injured but he even said learning the coryell system that the Jets employed was difficult, and after he went to the vikings who ran a very similar version of the WCO as GB did he flourished that year, and actually had a career year. Again certain QB's are better in certain system than others, it doesn't mean they couldn't play in any system, they just wouldn't be as effective, and some systems are a better fit than others -
How about the fact that he doesnt have a ring....all those 3 have a ring. Get a ring then you get into the convo. Romo hasnt done ? to be considered in the same league as those three.
no ? stupid....but give him a line and watch what he does....brees and brady wouldnt be what they are if they played behind the cowboys line....do you watch cowboys games? how many times do you see romo running aroud as soon as the ball is snapped because the line broke down and still making plays? answer is all the time -
bankrupt baller wrote: »no ? stupid....but give him a line and watch what he does....brees and brady wouldnt be what they are if they played behind the cowboys line....do you watch cowboys games? how many times do you see romo running aroud as soon as the ball is snapped because the line broke down and still making plays? answer is all the time
I get sick of watching Brady just drop back and turn into a statue. He is legitimately shocked when he is pressured. ? is mind blowing. -
I get sick of watching Brady just drop back and turn into a statue. He is legitimately shocked when he is pressured. ? is mind blowing.
i hate stupid sports fans that act like every qb in the nfl is in the same exact situation....romo is on the level of top qb's he just doesnt have anything that resembles a quality line yet still had the 4th best qb rating this year.....instead lets call him a ? and talk about a fumbled field goal hold from years ago.
im hoping the cowboys draft decastro or go out and sign nicks....that should help. -
cam newton plays behind the same line that jimmy clausen had. the same line that surrendered 127 sacks last year. great qbs make great plays
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cam newton plays behind the same line that jimmy clausen had. the same line that surrendered 127 sacks last year. great qbs make great plays
yeah but cams a whole different animal ......but yeah obviously romo made great plays because like i said he had 102 qb rating with no line....and only 10 ints(Less than brees and brady)....just like cam made plays without a good line also......but obviously if they both had better lines they would preform better correct? -
So Cam is an animal now? Raycess!
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bankrupt baller wrote: »no ? stupid....but give him a line and watch what he does....brees and brady wouldnt be what they are if they played behind the cowboys line....do you watch cowboys games? how many times do you see romo running aroud as soon as the ball is snapped because the line broke down and still making plays? answer is all the time
Again, ? cowgirl fans showing out again
Romo 36 sacks on the year. Brady 34, Rodgers 36...
Keep coppin pleas for Romo, no wonder you ? get bounced every year. -
Again, ? cowgirl fans showing out again
Romo 36 sacks on the year. Brady 34, Rodgers 36...
Keep coppin pleas for Romo, no wonder you ? get bounced every year.
so one qb cant avoid a sack that another would have taken?
shut your stupid ass up....brady would have taken about 50 ? sacks behind the cowboys line. -
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I get sick of watching Brady just drop back and turn into a statue. He is legitimately shocked when he is pressured. ? is mind blowing.
1. all QBs get shocked when they are pressured, that's the point of rushing the QB...how A.Rodgers or D.brees looks this past weekend
2. if you seen Brady play this year, he's been sacked and rushed and move out the pocket plenty of times and made plays.. -
bankrupt baller wrote: »so one qb cant avoid a sack that another would have taken?
shut your stupid ass up....brady would have taken about 50 ? sacks behind the cowboys line.
and you know this how?
you talk about this subject and keep ignoring the one simple important think..."excution" what does the QB do when he is rushed
do we really need to show all the bone headed mistakes Romo's made this year, it's been said way too much..the top tier QBs even rushed make better decisions...romo...ahh no doesnt
proven fact. ? romo throws stupid ints even when he is not rushed. -
Again, ? cowgirl fans showing out again
Romo 36 sacks on the year. Brady 34, Rodgers 36...
Keep coppin pleas for Romo, no wonder you ? get bounced every year.
interesting to see, for the posters talking about brady's line being better, or Rodgers is better because he can rush out the pocket.....they both just about equal in sacks...a -
lol oh you mean romos 10 ints to bradys 12?and you know this how?
you talk about this subject and keep ignoring the one simple important think..."excution" what does the QB do when he is rushed
do we really need to show all the bone headed mistakes Romo's made this year, it's been said way too much..the top tier QBs even rushed make better decisions...romo...ahh no doesnt
proven fact. ? romo throws stupid ints even when he is not rushed.
