The US/Israel Declared war on Iran

Alkindus

no no not yet, but thats what we're all expecting right?

Netanyahu saying they will launch a preemptive strike in april? the ? is a nation not even half the size of The Netherlands thinking it can attack a nation 30 times it size and expectin big bro the US to help them out? Wtf are they thinking they can cause a war like that? Why aren't international leaders worldwide trippin over this you think?

The US defense minister also talking ? about they're ready for war with Iran over the straight of Hormuz oil blockade ? ....I mean really?

It's seems like this is a war just waiting to happen, Israel/US really want to get in and are waiting for an excuse....

whats your view on this? don't talk about economic sanctions that much, Iran has been economically sanctioned before we were all born lol, they don't give a damn about the sanctions no more.

anyway drop that knowledge

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Bully_Pulpit

im surprised it hasnt happened already

ustreet_monsta

This SHOULD be the #1 issue in the election this year. The President has much more control over what our military does than the economy.

The whole thing is ? . Iran can build a nuke if they want. ? Israel.

1. Pakistan already has them and they were hiding Bin Laden from us.
2. Israel already has them and lied about it for years.
3. We're the only country who's ever used them on anybody.
4. Iran is not going to nuke Palestine or the holy sites in Israel.
5. They're not going to nuke the US and they couldn't if they wanted to.

Lou Cypher

I assume another 9/11 type event will happen to pursuade everyone to battle.

Wild Self

^^well that is obvious. A decade ago, most people never had access to info like this on the net.

Alkindus

thought it was a decent read, it's to large to post 2, so check the link:

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/02/201221510012473174.html

dalyricalbandit

Man this war ? getting old

StoneColdMikey

By the end of the year we will be in world war III

janklow

well...

#01. no, i am not expecting war with Iran. but then it's been promised around these here parts (along with a draft) for about 5-6 years, so maybe i am a little jaded.

#02. i don't see why Netanyahu and/or Israel in general saying they'll launch a preemptive strike and expect the US to back them up is a ridiculous theory, if we're speaking strictly about the "why would they expect support" part. whether or not it's a great idea is a separate issue.

#03. i REALLY don't see why you wouldn't expect Panetta to talk big in the face of Iran declaring they could blockade something. if you're the US, you're going to let Iran say they could do that and then give the impression you could do nothing about it?

saying Iran doesn't give a damn about sanctions is misleading.

Alkindus

janklow wrote:

well...

#01. no, i am not expecting war with Iran. but then it's been promised around these here parts (along with a draft) for about 5-6 years, so maybe i am a little jaded.

#02. i don't see why Netanyahu and/or Israel in general saying they'll launch a preemptive strike and expect the US to back them up is a ridiculous theory, if we're speaking strictly about the "why would they expect support" part. whether or not it's a great idea is a separate issue.

#03. i REALLY don't see why you wouldn't expect Panetta to talk big in the face of Iran declaring they could blockade something. if you're the US, you're going to let Iran say they could do that and then give the impression you could do nothing about it?

saying Iran doesn't give a damn about sanctions is misleading.

1, yeah I was amongst those that expected war back in 05 lol, been sceptical about it ever since but lately, with all the uprisings/revolutions a lot of previously believed impossible things are occuring, the EU/US wants to get in Syria via the UN at the moment for example....

2. I get what you mean but find it absurd that a nation(any nation at all, especially such a miniscule nation like Israel) can commit acts of war and get their allies into it, blowing it outta proportions and ruining the lifes of millions upon millions...for what exactly? dominance in the regions energy/fossil resources market? I don't believe the Israeli state propaganda that it's all about stopping a war thats bound to happen and they have the right to defend themselves lol

3. Yeah but couldnt this be expected? I mean really, the US has been sanctioning Iran for years, now the EU boycots Iranian oil.....Iran responds with, well ? you, than we will block (their waters btw) the straight of Hormuz.....Panetta than responds with, well we are ready for war if you do lol....its provocation..

I don't think it's misleading to say Iran doesn't care about sanctions, cause really, they have been under sanctions ever since their revolution, offcourse they want the embargos to stop, but I don't believe for a second that they will stop their uranium enrichment due to economic and/or political sanctions(cause they're becoming more energy independent, u could say the enrichment program is a direct consequence of the sanctions/embargos which forces them to be selfpreserving)...which anno 2012 is the US/EU's excuse of saying why they have the economic sanctions....10/20 years ago it was all about protectionism from the EU side....

janklow

01. that said, we shouldn't assume that people wanting to get into Syria --and i noticed you left the Arab League out for some reason-- as an indication war with Iran is coming. the fact is, people having been saying the West was just about to go to war with Iran for years and years now. we should MAYBE demand a little more support before declaring it eminent at this point.

02. well, this IS what small nations do: drag in their larger allies.

03. "could this be expected" should also tell you there's no way Panetta (or any major power) would back down in the face of Iran declaring they would block the Strait of Hormuz. it's also worth noting that while a PORTION of the strait is Iranian water, Iran has ratified the UN convention allowing transit of that territory, so... but that said, you actually have the provocation reversed in this case. a response of "we're ready for war" to "we'll block transit" is a response to provocation.

it's misleading to say they don't care about sanctions IF they are affected by them (true) and IF they want them to stop (true). this is not the same thing as declaring that sanctions will make them cave in on anything.

cobbland

I'm pretty sure world leaders have access to either an Xbox 360 or PS3, so why don't they link up with their allies, and battle their enemies on Battlefield 3 or Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3?

It'll save countless people from getting maimed in the process.

Alkindus

janklow wrote:

01. that said, we shouldn't assume that people wanting to get into Syria --and i noticed you left the Arab League out for some reason-- as an indication war with Iran is coming. the fact is, people having been saying the West was just about to go to war with Iran for years and years now. we should MAYBE demand a little more support before declaring it eminent at this point.

02. well, this IS what small nations do: drag in their larger allies.

03. "could this be expected" should also tell you there's no way Panetta (or any major power) would back down in the face of Iran declaring they would block the Strait of Hormuz. it's also worth noting that while a PORTION of the strait is Iranian water, Iran has ratified the UN convention allowing transit of that territory, so... but that said, you actually have the provocation reversed in this case. a response of "we're ready for war" to "we'll block transit" is a response to provocation.

it's misleading to say they don't care about sanctions IF they are affected by them (true) and IF they want them to stop (true). this is not the same thing as declaring that sanctions will make them cave in on anything.

1 Yeah the Arab Liga has no credibility at all, all of if not most regimes are under fire, they're trying to save their own hides(s.arabia cough cough). Anyway, both Russia's and China's 'opinion' on Syria are changing now according to the Arab Liga lol. I understand why your sceptic though, I have no support as to why the war with Iran is eminent, except theories(regarding that with the uprisings, there might be a UN intervention in Iran), but thats not really proof lol.

2 yeah I understand thats what nations do, but it's pathetic that such a extremly small azz nation can drag entire continents into war. I mean if Israel would strike Iran, Iran will strike back, which means the US/EU will back Israel lol, thats pathetic. If Israel wants to go to war, let them do it by themselves imo, they won't cause the persians will have them for breakfast.

3 provocation reversed? come on now Jank, who is sanctioning who here? who tried a coupe on the other? the US has been salty at the persians for decades now. How can you have a US allie talking about attacking a sovereign nation, other allies boycotting persian products/oil and not expect a reaction of the persians themselves? they saying they will block the transit is a direct reaction of the sanctions/boycots...

Alkindus

cobbland wrote:

I'm pretty sure world leaders have access to either an Xbox 360 or PS3, so why don't they link up with their allies, and battle their enemies on Battlefield 3 or Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3?

It'll save countless people from getting maimed in the process.

lol yeah I can respect cats that are willing to die for their cause, if cats want to get serious and be pro war, ask them if they are willing to sacrifice their kids/themselves, like really give up their lifes for the cause. 9 times outta 10 they hesitate/? out the argument, if they say yes, then simply say than well than ? yourself, that way nobody else has to get hurt lol.

Swiffness!

I'll make this simple.

If you don't know.......

The Israelis were ready to GO in spring of 2008. April, I think it was. And they went to Dubya Bush and asked him for the go ahead and HE SAID NO. If that muhfucka didn't want no parts of it, what makes you think Obama is suddenly gonna do something that he knows is gonna A) send oil to $200/barrel, ? off his base, C) get US sailors killed, D) really ? around and send oil to $200/barrel, E) NOT STOP IRAN FROM GETTING A NUKE, F) strengthen Iran's rulers and give them casus belli for a really nasty, ? purge of those Green rebels that first showed the world how to fight evil with Twitter, G) ? you really will be lucky to pay FIVE at the pump

No, the real threat is Israel. If Israel's crazy enough to just go dolo and try bombing them via the Saudi Arabia route.....I mean, think about it hypothetically: The U.S could not help them at all,right? and ppl would just NOT believe it. Muhfuckas from Tehran to The SL wouldn't believe it. We'd get ? blowback even if tried to stop them from bombing. Israel would just be dumping a hot bowl of ? soup into America's lap and watching us clean it up.

Alkindus

lol ay, yeah thats what I'm saying, Israel doesn't give a ? , they might try via EU/Nato/UN intervention/force it via the crooked Arab Liga etc one way or the other, they will make the states/eu bound to follow suit lol

janklow

#01. well, my other point about not mentioning the Arab League is that when we say it's the EU/US, we're implying the old "THEY'RE THERE FOR OIL" theory; bringing the Arab League (and others) into it sounds different. the Arab League obviously has much selfish motivation... as does the EU/US... but then so does Russia, and China, and on and on. i do remain skeptical of the war with Iran concept, though; see also the initial part of Swiffness' post.

#02. it's not so much "pathetic" as what small nations HAVE to do in some respect. Georgia sucked up to the US to prevent Russia from kicking the ? out of it (and that didn't totally work). Syria sucks up to Russia and China for the same reason. and then there's the additional reason of "well, Israel drug us into this, but Iran gives us NOTHING worthwhile to make up for not backing them, so..."

and this is not a defense of letting Israel do whatever the ? they want. the concept of "no daylight between us and Israel" INFURIATES me. but Israel's the small country that is allied to the US, so of course we're going to favor them.

#03. first off, let's not go back to every single thing the US has done when we're talking about the current situation... and let's ESPECIALLY not do it without mentioning anything Iran's done in the past. both countries like to needle the other. but in the case of closing the Strait, the provocation is "we'll close it" and the US response --which is really all talk, just like the Strait closing talk-- is "we'll keep it open." i'm specifically talking about THIS EXCHANGE here.

Alkindus

1. I can dig it, I admit I lost a great portion of my sceptism ever since the uprisings last year though, I'm probably being a lil naive here.

2. Yeah I think it's time the US stops holding Israels hand and gain a more neutral position worthy of such a titan/global power. We've discussed this before, I still think the world would be a better place if the US stops backing Israel/face the consequences of their humanitarian/war crimes via UN resolutions/int boycots/peace keepers etc, our views don't really differ here, israel is a liability for the US imo

3. This is where we do differ lol, I think we can't speak on this subject in the moment, cause it are ongoing/contiously chains of events, for one this didnt start last week, it started years ago and they cannot let it go. The danger of seeing it as a single exchange is that you lose sight of the broader picture + are feeble for propaganda/selective messaging...

Its like the entire Israel problem, people hate Israel with a passion, not(only) for what they have done the last ten years or this week, but ever since the injustice that occured in 48(even before). That is the entire essence of the conflicts, thats where fatah/hamas are born from, same as the likud etc... So same goes for the US/Iran dilemma, we can't forget where the hate is coming from and why these exchanges take place.

Knives Amilli

Swiffness! wrote:

I'll make this simple.

If you don't know.......

The Israelis were ready to GO in spring of 2008. April, I think it was. And they went to Dubya Bush and asked him for the go ahead and HE SAID NO. If that muhfucka didn't want no parts of it, what makes you think Obama is suddenly gonna do something that he knows is gonna A) send oil to $200/barrel, ? off his base, C) get US sailors killed, D) really ? around and send oil to $200/barrel, E) NOT STOP IRAN FROM GETTING A NUKE, F) strengthen Iran's rulers and give them casus belli for a really nasty, ? purge of those Green rebels that first showed the world how to fight evil with Twitter, G) ? you really will be lucky to pay FIVE at the pump

No, the real threat is Israel. If Israel's crazy enough to just go dolo and try bombing them via the Saudi Arabia route.....I mean, think about it hypothetically: The U.S could not help them at all,right? and ppl would just NOT believe it. Muhfuckas from Tehran to The SL wouldn't believe it. We'd get ? blowback even if tried to stop them from bombing. Israel would just be dumping a hot bowl of ? soup into America's lap and watching us clean it up.

This. When this ? first popped off in the fall of last year, I believe that the US was actively trying to talk Israel down and tell 'em "its not worth it mannnnnnn" like you tell your ? friend about to fight over some ? at the club. That didn't work. ? the US prolly was the ones who killed that Iranian Nuclear scientist in hopes that his death would be enough to quell Israels fear/bloodlust. If thats the case, that didn't work either.

So now the US is going the "PROPAGANDA, POSTURING, PROPAGANDA, POSTURING" route hopefully to scare Iran and/or its allies to ? out. The US has never really had it out for Iran like that (we KNOW they're not crazy enough to launch the nukes whether they have them or not) and at this point in time, we have far more to lose by engaging in conflict with them than to gain. Especially since this is an election year.

So yeah, the question is how froggy is Israel?

janklow

Alkindus wrote:

1. I can dig it, I admit I lost a great portion of my sceptism ever since the uprisings last year though, I'm probably being a lil naive here.

it's never going to be IMPOSSIBLE to happen because the US has to keep the option on the table, and when you do that, ? can go wrong. i'm just personally holding out for far more than big talk before i declare it likely.

Alkindus wrote:

2. Yeah I think it's time the US stops holding Israels hand and gain a more neutral position worthy of such a titan/global power. We've discussed this before, I still think the world would be a better place if the US stops backing Israel/face the consequences of their humanitarian/war crimes via UN resolutions/int boycots/peace keepers etc, our views don't really differ here, israel is a liability for the US imo

well, i don't think it'd be the best idea to have Israel in a position where they feel they have NO support; part of their problem is they act as if at any moment their allies might abandon them. would it be better if the US was more neutral? yeah, i think so, but some of that is our domestic politics as well... as well as the fact that there's no really neutral global power.

Alkindus wrote:

3. This is where we do differ lol, I think we can't speak on this subject in the moment, cause it are ongoing/contiously chains of events, for one this didnt start last week, it started years ago and they cannot let it go. The danger of seeing it as a single exchange is that you lose sight of the broader picture + are feeble for propaganda/selective messaging...

the problem with saying we have to discuss the WHOLE picture is that we then have to always thrash out stuff that will never, ever be resolved. so i'd rather focus on what's going on right now. and as always, let's not pretend that propaganda comes from one side?

Alkindus wrote:

Its like the entire Israel problem, people hate Israel with a passion, not(only) for what they have done the last ten years or this week, but ever since the injustice that occured in 48(even before).

of course, the "injustice that occurred in 1948" involves a lot more than just Israel, so...

kingblaze84

Israel really ? sucks........I'm hoping American govt doesn't follow Israel's suicidal plans for war. But than again, this is America we're talking about. If Israel ever does go to war, it will do so without warning America, as they told Obama and his generals. With that being said, America will obviously back up Israel in anything it does. America is Israel's slave, and the world knows it.

dalyricalbandit

damn title had me thing we started already.