Chuck D "Jay Z And Kanye West's Bases Are "Corrupt To Rap"

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  • bankrupt baller
    bankrupt baller Members Posts: 12,927 ✭✭✭✭✭
    watch the throne is boo boo
  • usmarin3
    usmarin3 Members Posts: 38,013 ✭✭✭✭✭
    lol at Kanye's fanbase being struggling college kids, yeah right ? .

    I find it amazing how people can say they don't relate to all the so call bourgeois topics of WTT but yet ya'll relate to that gang banging, thug music,etc ? that ? like Mobb Deep, CNN,Compton's Most Wanted,etc rap about. Ya'll find some way to relate to the ignorant ? that we know these ? ain't rely doing. smh
  • Washington_Red
    Washington_Red Members Posts: 255
    edited March 2012
    Who knew a song called ? in Paris would be so controversial?

    Seems like a lot of misdirected hate to me.
  • StoneColdMikey
    StoneColdMikey Members, Moderators Posts: 33,543 Regulator
    "Usually if you have this much taste you European. Thats the end of that thinking ? never again"
    "the scales was lopsided, im just restoring order"
    "we aint even supposed to be here"
    "she said 'You goin to school ill give you a summer'/Then she met No I.D. and gave me his number/Ten years later she driving a hummer"
    "now all my ? designing and we all swaggin.."
    "Im shocked too, im supposed to be locked up too. If u escaped what i escaped, YOU'D be in Paris getting ? up too"
    "Marilyn Monroe shes quite nice but all the pretty icons always all white"

    Tell the whole story.
    These are just a few lines. But ? only choose to hear what suits their bias.
    Bragging has been far and away the norm in hiphop yet Jay and Kanye are the ones we have to examine and decipher literally then blow out of proportion. Yea right
    What has Europe almost always represented culturally in American history?
    Economically, what does a vacation to Europe say about you or the job you hold/status in life?
    Contrast that- What does being from Bedstuy usually mean? How about black from chicago?
    Are black men growing up in the late 70s-80s frequently allowed to travel/vacation in ANY other continent much less one seen as so "first world/high class" as Europe?
    You can answer these questions yourself. Is this right? No. SHOULD it be that way? Hell no. Is that how it is? Yes. Does the imagery and symbolism of what 'Europe' represents to the average ear effective? Yes

    yall ? can go rant and snap ur fingers at poetry slams all u want. Your claims are unfounded. If u need to build the erroneous straw man that Jay/Ye are white washing and speakin on having money and being in europe is a sac relig to the culture theres the counterpoints right there. While you're fishing for co-signs on the internet you missed the point patting yourself on the back.

    1st I gave this an ether but then i gave this GOAT.

    great drop, i been saying this for a minute but people dont listen to me.
  • supersajinfo
    supersajinfo Members Posts: 461 ✭✭
    the so called struggling college kids should have graduated by now... I did...

    True they are now either looking for jobs and or have them .I don't expect them to be on the same ? they were on in college.Nigfas have stepped into a new world what appealed to them back then is probably different now if Kanyes sound didn't evolve he probably wouldn't continue to have such a huge fanbase.
  • a.mann
    a.mann Members Posts: 19,746 ✭✭✭✭✭
    who the ? can "RATIONALLY" argue with this:


    Chuck D:

    "Alright, you have somebody who comes up in a local [scene], at least they should be heard on local radio. But corporate radio and corporations have dominated over that existence, wiping out that foundation [for fairness]. And therefore the little business can’t even start up right, unless it’s corrupt and just totally, violently opposed to what the community is evolved from. So you gotta be national to even make it locally, where you should be local to make it locally."
  • supersajinfo
    supersajinfo Members Posts: 461 ✭✭
    Chuck is completely right about that.
  • Washington_Red
    Washington_Red Members Posts: 255
    a.mann wrote: »
    who the ? can "RATIONALLY" argue with this:


    Chuck D:

    "Alright, you have somebody who comes up in a local [scene], at least they should be heard on local radio. But corporate radio and corporations have dominated over that existence, wiping out that foundation [for fairness]. And therefore the little business can’t even start up right, unless it’s corrupt and just totally, violently opposed to what the community is evolved from. So you gotta be national to even make it locally, where you should be local to make it locally."

    He's halfway right. The internet changed all that years ago.

    If rapper wants to go indie there's nothing stopping them from getting their message out there. You can complain about radio and TV being corporate controlled or you can work outside of that system and put yourself on.

    Part of the problem with getting older is that you tend to fight the last battle instead of the next one.
  • H-Rap 180
    H-Rap 180 Members Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I didn't like watch the throne and was one of the first to say that ? had no replay value .The few gems they drop get washed out by the overrall wall of sound vibe I get from this album.Yes this album is Eurocentric and xenocentric.These guys could have dropped a boom bap album with the same title with the same lyrics and I guarantee they would have got universal praise on this site.I think a lot of folks don't like bourgeois vibe that they are putting on it does come across as snooty when the majority of kanyes fans were at first struggling college kids .I don't need for a rapper to remind me every five seconds that I live in a ? up world at the same time I don't mind him telling me that he is successful.

    This is what people don't understand but you stated it: THE OVERALL SOUND VIBE.


    In this case I don't care if JayZ wears Givenchy, Gucci, Versace, and Yves Saint Laurent, and drives Bentleys, Beemers & Benzes he can have a bromance with Chris Martin, speak in French, move to Italy, and watch reruns of "Austin Powers" while eating sauerkraut on a Belgian waffle.


    All I care about is the music and the musical direction of the culture:


    Let's give rappers the benefit of the doubt;



    you wanna wear all the over-priced Italian fashion then cool
    you wanna obsess over German engineering and Euro-cars, cool
    you wanna name yourselves after Europeon-Italian gangsters, cool
    you wanna sign a rapper from the U.K. and collab with EUROPEONS, cool


    All that ish is cool but when your album has a Eurocentric vibe with it's musical elements its only going to neutralize any type of Black empowerment lyrics or street/community vibe that you may want to convey, and then you add the Europeon-art covers, the song titles, and the guests and you have one big Europeon orgy that many HipHop fans ain't gonna feel.


    I don't want artists to wallow in self-pity and celebrate misery and poverty, I enjoy hearing the celebrations of success and excess, but is the soundtrack to our success based on Europeon validation and white folks acceptance? That's dangerous territory.



    Hey look Ma' we finally made it, we are in a Europeon country wearing Europeon clothes, driving Europeon cars, sleeping with Europeon women and listening to a Europeon-themed rap album about "Ni99ers in Paris".



    Yeah, you made it to Paris but you still a ? /NI99ER.















  • CapitalC
    CapitalC Members Posts: 2,056
    ? in Pars is a good song, and when I think about it, I try to imagine ? I know from round the way being there and being ? , rolling j's and talking ? ...which is a really cool lil image to me....about as inspirational as you can get...
    And I've been to Paris btw (as a kid, gotta go back now that I'm grown)...it's really nice....*shrug*
  • FlightKing
    FlightKing Members Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭✭✭
    a.mann wrote: »
    who the ? can "RATIONALLY" argue with this:


    Chuck D:

    "Alright, you have somebody who comes up in a local [scene], at least they should be heard on local radio. But corporate radio and corporations have dominated over that existence, wiping out that foundation [for fairness]. And therefore the little business can’t even start up right, unless it’s corrupt and just totally, violently opposed to what the community is evolved from. So you gotta be national to even make it locally, where you should be local to make it locally."

    He's halfway right. The internet changed all that years ago.

    If rapper wants to go indie there's nothing stopping them from getting their message out there. You can complain about radio and TV being corporate controlled or you can work outside of that system and put yourself on.

    Part of the problem with getting older is that you tend to fight the last battle instead of the next one.

    What else is there besides radio and TV? Not everybody wants to beg and dickride trends just to be on TV. Urban artists barely getting their albums released. Majors don't want to waste money on rap albums anymore, rap videos, there are no big rap tours - because the major label formula was killed because of the internet. It's not a stretch to say that Eminem, Jay-Z, Kanye West, Nas and Lil Wayne DO NOT need a major label to sell their music.

    106th and Park is the main music tv show and MTV Jams is the only video show. Ratings are not spectacular like they used to be.
    Radio is not booming like it used to be.

    So without that vehicle driving it, what's stopping the leaders of the genre from changing the game and putting the business of rap back into the hands of the ones who create it, understand it and support it (artists, fans and hip hop heads of all styles) versus corporate suits?

    ? scared of not accruing 50 million dollars a year, I guess...
  • H-Rap 180
    H-Rap 180 Members Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2012
    Chuck is completely right about that.
    M
    Yes but at the same time alot of Ni99ers fantasize about being a Ni99er in Paris, France.

    Every wannabe white man fantasizes about being a ni99er in a Europeon country were they can feel as if they are accepted by whites, applauded by whites and seen as entertainment for whites....many field slaves greatest desire was to be a house slave and accepted by their Slavemaster...thats why they learned how to play the fiddle and buckdance.


    If you are a ? /ni99er with a ? /ni99er mentality then the greatest validation of your existence would be a co-sign from your slavemaster, boss, or colonial master...thats the difference between a ni99er and a non-ni99er.



    Thats why some Ni99ers can Listen to "Kingdom Come", "Blueprint 3" & "Watch the Throne" and never recognize that JayZ put a Europeon artist at the end of all those albums...White-Negroes dont notice the subliminal meaning behind that symbolism because they are either mentally grafted and have ? in their blood or suck on so much white ? and eat so much white ass that it goes right over their wannbee -blond heads.


    Yall Kneegrows can go dance and snap ur fingers at Euro-worship all u want. Your white-washed behavior is expected and a natural manifestation of what you are on the inside. If u need to build the erroneous straw man that Jay/Ye are not putting Europeon culture on a pedastle then you are either white, half-white, white-washed, or raised white by a white woman.


    While you're fishing for co-signs on the internet you missed the underlaying ramifications of this sickness either due to having recessive genes, a calcified Pineal gland or just a white-washed mentality that originated by your lack of melanin, or finesse and cultural understanding.

    Hallelujah






  • rip.dilla
    rip.dilla Members Posts: 17,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    *? In London (over 200 miles from Paris) post*
  • Wild Self
    Wild Self Members Posts: 4,226 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A heated topic. Wow. I agree with some posters in here saying that people need to go beyond that prototypical street raps and gun slaying, but going 100% European isnt the total answer. Chuck D needs to understand that many of the problems back in the ? epidemic have decreased and not as prevalent as it used to be. Kinda hard to adapt to seeing black people turning Euro when you spent most of ya life traumatized by that street ? thinking that black folk need to be there and nowhere else.
  • H-Rap 180
    H-Rap 180 Members Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2012
    rip.dilla wrote: »
    *? In London (over 200 miles from Paris) post*

    If you are a Black man of indigenous origin on the Europeon continent then you can subscribe to the culture of your origin but if you are an Afrikan-American pandering to the culture that enslaved your people and ? & pillaged your homeland then you are a white-washed individual.

    Is it an accident that the last successful and accepted Europeon-born artist was Slick Rick back in the 80's?


    You ever notice how Nas embraces his Afrikan roots and his Afrikan culture? Nas isnt going to sell millions of records with the direction of his music but he caters to his own Afrikan culture and doesnt feel the need to seek acceptance from whites and white Europeons.

    Nas doesnt have to pander to whites with his music and eat white ? like Chris Martin and Mr Hudson when he can recognize his own brothers like K'naan, and the Marley brothers.


    ...however many white-washed Kneegrows and whites will heap all sorts of accolades upon JayZ for being a cog in the machinery of white supremacy and a posterboy of the so-called superiority of White-Europeon culture.

  • High Revolutionary
    High Revolutionary Members Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "That ether, that ? that make your soul burn slow."
  • MC The Rapper
    MC The Rapper Members Posts: 8,140 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All i'm saying is this, with out the fans(who for the most part are not rich or well off) supporting these cats and buying they music they wouldn't be ? . All ? in paris showed is how outta touch they are with the everyday person. Its nice to be ambitious and there is nothing wrong with having money but you gotta be sensitive to the people that are putting money in your pocket . Without the every day person putting money in their hand there would be no Jay-Z or Kanye. We(the fans) were the ones that put them in the position to be in paris in the first place. Respect the people that spend they hard earn on you. That really goes for any rapper/musician you can think of .
  • MC The Rapper
    MC The Rapper Members Posts: 8,140 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All i'm saying is this, with out the fans(who for the most part are not rich or well off) supporting these cats and buying they music they wouldn't be ? . All ? in paris showed is how outta touch they are with the everyday person. Its nice to be ambitious and there is nothing wrong with having money but you gotta be sensitive to the people that are putting money in your pocket . Without the every day person putting money in their hand there would be no Jay-Z or Kanye. We(the fans) were the ones that put them in the position to be in paris in the first place. Respect the people that spend they hard earn on you. That really goes for any rapper/musician you can think of .

    lol...
    how r they out of touch when people love that song?
    its gets the people going...
    Don't confuse people feeling the beat with people liking the messages present in the track. I definitely like the beat but like most of that album I can do with out them dudes rapping.
    did you listen to lyrical content of the song? Are you aware of the messages in the song and the album in general? The gold plated album at that.
  • rip.dilla
    rip.dilla Members Posts: 17,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My whole take on the issue

    1. It's a fun song, DOPE ASS BEAT, with a nasty flow from Jay, a foul flow from 'Ye ... at the end of the day, the star of that song is HitBoy (the video for the song is another matter)

    2. The lyrical content was meh

    3. The title of the song has to be in my opinion the most ? -ish ever titles for a hip hop song, so I agree whole-heartily with Chuck D

    4. On a political note, the current French president, Nicolas Sarkozy who is currently campaigning for re-election has said France is filled up with immigrants and he wants their numbers halted. That, presumably is directed mostly at African nationals of Francophone nations and who are BLACK and Arabs from the Northern part of the continent. His closest rival in the race Dominique de Villepin, who is female is born from a family of far-right fascists. I hope KanYe pulls through in that country.
  • MC The Rapper
    MC The Rapper Members Posts: 8,140 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All i'm saying is this, with out the fans(who for the most part are not rich or well off) supporting these cats and buying they music they wouldn't be ? . All ? in paris showed is how outta touch they are with the everyday person. Its nice to be ambitious and there is nothing wrong with having money but you gotta be sensitive to the people that are putting money in your pocket . Without the every day person putting money in their hand there would be no Jay-Z or Kanye. We(the fans) were the ones that put them in the position to be in paris in the first place. Respect the people that spend they hard earn on you. That really goes for any rapper/musician you can think of .

    lol...
    how r they out of touch when people love that song?
    its gets the people going...
    Don't confuse people feeling the beat with people liking the messages present in the track. I definitely like the beat but like most of that album I can do with out them dudes rapping.
    did you listen to lyrical content of the song? Are you aware of the messages in the song and the album in general? The gold plated album at that.

    I have addressed several of the lyrics and what they mean to me in this thread... so yes...
    ball so hard...

    and that line doesn't even make sense if you balling hard they not gon wanna fine you , they gon wanna put media attention on you , they gonna wanna sign you to endorsement deals. But i'm guessing jay saying that he balling so hard its foul/fowl and I agree with him He is a foul ass ? .
  • Disciplined InSight
    Disciplined InSight Members Posts: 13,478 ✭✭✭✭✭
    H-Rap 180 wrote: »
    Chuck is completely right about that.
    M
    Yes but at the same time alot of Ni99ers fantasize about being a Ni99er in Paris, France.

    Every wannabe white man fantasizes about being a ni99er in a Europeon country were they can feel as if they are accepted by whites, applauded by whites and seen as entertainment for whites....many field slaves greatest desire was to be a house slave and accepted by their Slavemaster...thats why they learned how to play the fiddle and buckdance.


    If you are a ? /ni99er with a ? /ni99er mentality then the greatest validation of your existence would be a co-sign from your slavemaster, boss, or colonial master...thats the difference between a ni99er and a non-ni99er.



    Thats why some Ni99ers can Listen to "Kingdom Come", "Blueprint 3" & "Watch the Throne" and never recognize that JayZ put a Europeon artist at the end of all those albums...White-Negroes dont notice the subliminal meaning behind that symbolism because they are either mentally grafted and have ? in their blood or suck on so much white ? and eat so much white ass that it goes right over their wannbee -blond heads.


    Yall Kneegrows can go dance and snap ur fingers at Euro-worship all u want. Your white-washed behavior is expected and a natural manifestation of what you are on the inside. If u need to build the erroneous straw man that Jay/Ye are not putting Europeon culture on a pedastle then you are either white, half-white, white-washed, or raised white by a white woman.


    While you're fishing for co-signs on the internet you missed the underlaying ramifications of this sickness either due to having recessive genes, a calcified Pineal gland or just a white-washed mentality that originated by your lack of melanin, or finesse and cultural understanding.

    Hallelujah






    Damn.....

    **Shots Fired**
  • SlickestR
    SlickestR Members Posts: 2,787 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "Success is the best revenge"...

    that's basically what that ? In Paris mean...
  • SlickestR
    SlickestR Members Posts: 2,787 ✭✭✭✭✭
    some of y'all ? hate to see ? become successful...

  • rip.dilla
    rip.dilla Members Posts: 17,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    SlickestR wrote: »
    some of y'all ? hate to see ? become successful...

    Are JayZ and KanYe West the 'The Throne' 'cos they ball so ? hard in Paris, France or because they make good undiluted HipHop music?
  • Wild Self
    Wild Self Members Posts: 4,226 ✭✭✭✭✭
    rip.dilla wrote: »
    My whole take on the issue

    1. It's a fun song, DOPE ASS BEAT, with a nasty flow from Jay, a foul flow from 'Ye ... at the end of the day, the star of that song is HitBoy (the video for the song is another matter)

    2. The lyrical content was meh

    3. The title of the song has to be in my opinion the most ? -ish ever titles for a hip hop song, so I agree whole-heartily with Chuck D

    4. On a political note, the current French president, Nicolas Sarkozy who is currently campaigning for re-election has said France is filled up with immigrants and he wants their numbers halted. That, presumably is directed mostly at African nationals of Francophone nations and who are BLACK and Arabs from the Northern part of the continent. His closest rival in the race Dominique de Villepin, who is female is born from a family of far-right fascists. I hope KanYe pulls through in that country.

    Kanye better watch his back. haha

    I agree with H Rap that Jay is catering too much to Euros. And artists that shout out African people and its roots often get shunned and laughed at in the Hip Hop audience.
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