Can Somebody tell me exactly what OWS has achieved?
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Bully_Pulpit
Members Posts: 5,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
Ok so is the movement over, and what did they achieve?*shrug* It had a spark when it started, now its pretty much an afterthought.
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They didn't achieve ? because they are uncoordinated and uneducated to how this system works, therefore their strategy is asinine. They don't know where to hit and how to hit, and I tried to tell them, but you can't tell white folks nothing.
They think all that rah rah siss boom bah is gonna get them something, none of them ever studied political protests in context of global events.
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Nothing.
You can't make the system go away by not believing in it. Instead of camping outside and doing art projects OWS should have been mobilizing to get candidates elected who support their beliefs.
Just another case of Republicans (Tea Party) being more organized and productive than Democrats (OWS). -
I hate internet language, but "Epic Fail" applies to OWS.
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They brought up issues that are very important to the American public at large, issues that weren't talked about much are now being talked about in Washington DC and many people in general. The movement just started anyway, since when do movements make massive change in a span of less than a year??!!!!! WTF lol.....the Civil Rights movement didn't achieve ? for years.....same with most revolutions in history. How can anyone judge a movement within months?? In that case Gandhi and Toussaint L Ouverture wouldv'e been failures in their first 9 months. Silly ass thread bruh, some of ya'll here need to read your history books A LITTLE BIT more.
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I hate internet language, but "Epic Fail" applies to OWS.PublicEnemigo1 wrote: »They didn't achieve ? because they are uncoordinated and uneducated to how this system works, therefore their strategy is asinine. They don't know where to hit and how to hit, and I tried to tell them, but you can't tell white folks nothing.
They think all that rah rah siss boom bah is gonna get them something, none of them ever studied political protests in context of global events.
The movement just started......no movement or transformation of a nation achieves it's complete or majority of goals within its first year, better yet the span of months. Civil War lasted 4 years, Haiti's movement for freedom lasted about 20 years plus.
Civil Rights movement didn't see real progress for DECADES, lol......do I need to go on? ? just started. And threadstarter, many Blacks are part of the OWS movement as well, including myself. I'm a very proud member and supporter. -
@kingblaze, I just knew this ? would come capin in this thread
i gotta be real wit ya brah brah, is that ? even still going? -
Washington_Red wrote: »Nothing.
You can't make the system go away by not believing in it. Instead of camping outside and doing art projects OWS should have been mobilizing to get candidates elected who support their beliefs.
Just another case of Republicans (Tea Party) being more organized and productive than Democrats (OWS).Last Of My Kind wrote: »@kingblaze, I just knew this ? would come capin in this thread
i gotta be real wit ya brah brah, is that ? even still going?
LOL, yeah it is. Many members of OWS marched in NYC just last week for Trayvon Martin. There's been protests this year too. Before OWS, the ONLY talk in Washington DC was cutting the deficit while leaving military spending alone. Now, the talk is more balanced, and Bank Of America and other banks decided to get rid of its plans to institute debit card fees. That's one accomplishment OWS has done.....
Either way, what's the alternative to OWS?? Who else is out there in the streets trying to defend the interests of the working class?? I don't see no other large groups out there demanding less bailouts for the banks and more help for the 99%.
OWS supports an end to endless wars, more money and funding for states, less funding for the Pentagon and blowing up people worldwide for their resources. These are honorable positions, and even if it hasn't succeeded yet, at least people are out there fighting and trying to make a difference. Rome wasn't built in a day......and apartheid didn't end in a couple of months either. In fact, apartheid lasted 40 years, maybe longer......let that marinate brah brah -
you still out there on front lines??
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And what do some of ya'll want OWS to do, nominate a person to run for president RIGHT NOW?? The movement is just starting, it's not even fully organized yet.
Do some others here want OWS to start an armed rebellion against the govt?? OK.....where are your guns? People are asking too much from a movement that barely began last summer. Everything takes time, no matter what the movement or change is. -
in some respects, this confirms the criticism that they lack clear-enough goals to accomplish anythingkingblaze84 wrote: »LOL, yeah it is. Many members of OWS marched in NYC just last week for Trayvon Martin.
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Last Of My Kind wrote: »you still out there on front lines??
I went to the march last week, and many OWS people were there. I shouldve taken pictures but yeah, OWS is very much alive....and still in its early stages. -
in some respects, this confirms the criticism that they lack clear-enough goals to accomplish anythingkingblaze84 wrote: »LOL, yeah it is. Many members of OWS marched in NYC just last week for Trayvon Martin.
OWS is against injustice anywhere it happens. An example is when many OWS members blocked foreclosures all over America, and SUCCEEDED in helping people keep their homes, even if only temporary. If banks can get bailed out, than so should regular Americans who have caught a hard time in this monopoly money economy, in which the federal reserve bails out the rich and leaves everyone else hanging. I was very proud to see OWS support Trayvon Martin's family the way it did, my respect and love for them grew a lot last week.
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Ows failed because they went after the wrong people, they should of of gone after the politicians that bail out the banks and give tax cuts, to keep thier political pockets lined with money.
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I was all for OWS at first, even participated in the Detroit version.. But then I realized that a movement needs a head or at least some committee that voices it's agenda and demands.. In my opinion it's been too unstructured, you can't just collect a bunch of agendas and throw them in a crockpot like that. The movement needs some consistent leaders and spokespersons who can meet with the powers that be and let them know what is demanded. Then march and occupy those places.. The people in power don't give a damn about us sitting in some non-descript park, that causes no interruption to their cash flow nor business.. I hope OWS grows more structured and then I think they can make some real change..
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kingblaze84 wrote: »Washington_Red wrote: »Nothing.
You can't make the system go away by not believing in it. Instead of camping outside and doing art projects OWS should have been mobilizing to get candidates elected who support their beliefs.
Just another case of Republicans (Tea Party) being more organized and productive than Democrats (OWS).Last Of My Kind wrote: »@kingblaze, I just knew this ? would come capin in this thread
i gotta be real wit ya brah brah, is that ? even still going?
LOL, yeah it is. Many members of OWS marched in NYC just last week for Trayvon Martin. There's been protests this year too. Before OWS, the ONLY talk in Washington DC was cutting the deficit while leaving military spending alone. Now, the talk is more balanced, and Bank Of America and other banks decided to get rid of its plans to institute debit card fees. That's one accomplishment OWS has done.....
Either way, what's the alternative to OWS?? Who else is out there in the streets trying to defend the interests of the working class?? I don't see no other large groups out there demanding less bailouts for the banks and more help for the 99%.
OWS supports an end to endless wars, more money and funding for states, less funding for the Pentagon and blowing up people worldwide for their resources. These are honorable positions, and even if it hasn't succeeded yet, at least people are out there fighting and trying to make a difference. Rome wasn't built in a day......and apartheid didn't end in a couple of months either. In fact, apartheid lasted 40 years, maybe longer......let that marinate brah brah
Until they run candidates who support their platform theres no way to measure their success. I'm not going to camp outside cuz I have better things to do. I'm not going to send them money cuz I dont know what it's going to be spent on.
Our political system doesnt start and end with the President. In order to make a lasting change OWS has to develop a political platform and get their candidates elected to school boards and as Governors and Mayors.
So far the only person I've seen running for office who embodies their ideas is Elizabeth Warren. -
Washington_Red wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »Washington_Red wrote: »Nothing.
You can't make the system go away by not believing in it. Instead of camping outside and doing art projects OWS should have been mobilizing to get candidates elected who support their beliefs.
Just another case of Republicans (Tea Party) being more organized and productive than Democrats (OWS).Last Of My Kind wrote: »@kingblaze, I just knew this ? would come capin in this thread
i gotta be real wit ya brah brah, is that ? even still going?
LOL, yeah it is. Many members of OWS marched in NYC just last week for Trayvon Martin. There's been protests this year too. Before OWS, the ONLY talk in Washington DC was cutting the deficit while leaving military spending alone. Now, the talk is more balanced, and Bank Of America and other banks decided to get rid of its plans to institute debit card fees. That's one accomplishment OWS has done.....
Either way, what's the alternative to OWS?? Who else is out there in the streets trying to defend the interests of the working class?? I don't see no other large groups out there demanding less bailouts for the banks and more help for the 99%.
OWS supports an end to endless wars, more money and funding for states, less funding for the Pentagon and blowing up people worldwide for their resources. These are honorable positions, and even if it hasn't succeeded yet, at least people are out there fighting and trying to make a difference. Rome wasn't built in a day......and apartheid didn't end in a couple of months either. In fact, apartheid lasted 40 years, maybe longer......let that marinate brah brah
Until they run candidates who support their platform theres no way to measure their success. I'm not going to camp outside cuz I have better things to do. I'm not going to send them money cuz I dont know what it's going to be spent on.
Our political system doesnt start and end with the President. In order to make a lasting change OWS has to develop a political platform and get their candidates elected to school boards and as Governors and Mayors.
So far the only person I've seen running for office who embodies their ideas is Elizabeth Warren.
Who wouldn't agree with this? What you said is very accurate, but again, the movement just started. Elizabeth Warren is really good, but there are others who can be leaders in the future. OWS started just 9 months ago, give them time. The Civil Rights Movement and anti-apartheid movement didn't have any strong political connections when it first started either. Civil rights leaders eventually won elections all over America (Bobby Rush being an example. the guy wearing the hoodie in Capitol Hill yesterday), but that took DECADES. No civil rights leaders won elections in the 1950s or 60s. They didn't start winning till the 70s.
All good things take time, and I'm willing to be patient, as long as I see the passion is still there. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »They brought up issues that are very important to the American public at large, issues that weren't talked about much are now being talked about in Washington DC and many people in general. The movement just started anyway, since when do movements make massive change in a span of less than a year??!!!!! WTF lol.....the Civil Rights movement didn't achieve ? for years.....same with most revolutions in history. How can anyone judge a movement within months?? In that case Gandhi and Toussaint L Ouverture wouldv'e been failures in their first 9 months. Silly ass thread bruh, some of ya'll here need to read your history books A LITTLE BIT more.
this....the movement has already been hugely successful in thrusting issues of inequality and corporate power into the public discourse...sparked OWS protests around the world...and has spawned groups around the country who are helping to keep thousands of families with little to no means in their homes and educating future home owners on what an what no to do when mortgaging a house....that alone is notable achievement
its a fair critique to note the movement has had no clear focus...but imho instead of engaging in the electoral arena, which could hurt or undermine the movement by running candidates or engaging in lobbying, or focusing on 1 or 2 issues at a time...the movement is better served to stay a movement of the people by the people as a means of putting pressure on corporations and politicians from outside the political system ....
if t/s you feel as though you can do better, start your own movement or maybe join the OWS movement in your area or run for local office ... *shrugs* but don't knock the next man for actually doing something other than sitting around and ?
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let me restate, because i understand you're defensive regarding OWS. one of the things that made people dismissive of OWS was that they appear to be all over the map regarding their goals; whether or not this bothers you (i assume it does not), it IS something that the average random dude finds makes OWS less appealing to him.kingblaze84 wrote: »OWS is against injustice anywhere it happens. -
let me restate, because i understand you're defensive regarding OWS. one of the things that made people dismissive of OWS was that they appear to be all over the map regarding their goals; whether or not this bothers you (i assume it does not), it IS something that the average random dude finds makes OWS less appealing to him.kingblaze84 wrote: »OWS is against injustice anywhere it happens.
Yeah that is a bit of a problem lately. There are so many views in the movement, each time I go to an event, I meet Obama supporters and those who hate Obama with a passion lol. It has many goals within but there are VERY common themes most protestors agree on.....
-An end to all wars that are not for defense....OWS is definitely anti-war
-Spending more bailout money on the working class to building infrastructure here instead of Iraq and Afghanistan.
-Bail out states that need the money more than the Pentagon and Federal Reserve does
-Stop spending money irresponsibly
-Last but not least, legalize or decriminalize marijuana and cut down on the way too expensive War on Drugs
These are ideas any American, and probably most, agree on now. That's the reason so many OWS events are so large. -
The majority of marketing and communications executives at financial services firms said that Occupy Wall Street has impacted their business, according to a study conducted by Echo Research and Makovsky -- a research company and an integrated communications firm specializing in financial services, respectively. The number one challenge for firms this year is dealing with a negative public perception, according to Scott Tangney, an executive at Makovsky. In recent years past, recovering from the financial crisis superseded that concern.
"Banks and financial services firms have now shifted their focus from liquidity and financial performance to customer satisfaction and their own employees," Tangney said. "The Occupy Wall Street Movement has indicated to firms where they need to be focusing."
Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/27/occupy-wall-street-_n_1383083.html
Now can somebody tell me exactly what being a cynical naysayer has achieved? -
this is all well and good, but it's still all over the place ... although, in fairness, your first three are redundant and your fourth one is sort of meaningless. but look at it this way: there are people and organizations who are pro-marijuana-legalization who focus ONLY ON THAT that haven't made it happen yet, so when you have OWS throw "legalize it" into their mix, it sounds like they're talking about it just to talk about it, not so much to resolve the issue.kingblaze84 wrote: »It has many goals within but there are VERY common themes most protestors agree on.....
-An end to all wars that are not for defense....OWS is definitely anti-war
-Spending more bailout money on the working class to building infrastructure here instead of Iraq and Afghanistan.
-Bail out states that need the money more than the Pentagon and Federal Reserve does
-Stop spending money irresponsibly
-Last but not least, legalize or decriminalize marijuana and cut down on the way too expensive War on Drugs
this is not to say they should stop doing whatever they want to do, i'm just saying why the average American doesn't think OWS doesn't stand for something concrete that they can accomplish. -
this is all well and good, but it's still all over the place ... although, in fairness, your first three are redundant and your fourth one is sort of meaningless. but look at it this way: there are people and organizations who are pro-marijuana-legalization who focus ONLY ON THAT that haven't made it happen yet, so when you have OWS throw "legalize it" into their mix, it sounds like they're talking about it just to talk about it, not so much to resolve the issue.kingblaze84 wrote: »It has many goals within but there are VERY common themes most protestors agree on.....
-An end to all wars that are not for defense....OWS is definitely anti-war
-Spending more bailout money on the working class to building infrastructure here instead of Iraq and Afghanistan.
-Bail out states that need the money more than the Pentagon and Federal Reserve does
-Stop spending money irresponsibly
-Last but not least, legalize or decriminalize marijuana and cut down on the way too expensive War on Drugs
this is not to say they should stop doing whatever they want to do, i'm just saying why the average American doesn't think OWS doesn't stand for something concrete that they can accomplish.
Yeah I hear where you're coming from. I agree results are the main thing people look at, but OWS has been very influential in many areas. Obama and the federal govt is being pressured by OWS and other groups to speed up the withdrawal from Afghanistan, and Leon Panetta announced 2 months ago troops would end combat missions by early 2013 (it could be a lie but it's a start). War fever in America has died down big time, and I think OWS plays a roll in that.
Banks also ended their ideas of debit card fees thanks to OWS and the tons of demonstrations by its many supporters. It's just a start of course, but a good one. We'll see how long it lasts, that is the legitimate question. -
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/30/us-usa-tax-japan-idUSBRE82T17R20120330
This might have been a direct cause in the shift of a social movement on capitalism. I think it'd be wrong to say that OWS didn't achieve anything or didn't have an impact on the financial system. They're reforming the financial industry and it's going to be a lot more difficult for banks to make big profits the way many of them did during the crisis. Also, taxes are going to be shot waaay up in a few short years.
I agree, and taxes for the rich should go up, just like they were under Clinton's presidency. Northern European nations generally have higher tax rates on the rich than America does and according to a poll, northern European nations have the happiest populations in the world. The poll could be ? but it's very telling that their societies have less social problems and better safety nets. That's why I'm still mad at your boy Obama for letting the Bush tax cuts continue smh, it added to the deficit a lot too. At least Obama is fighting for higher taxes now but damn, he shouldn't have caved in 2 years ago. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/30/us-usa-tax-japan-idUSBRE82T17R20120330
This might have been a direct cause in the shift of a social movement on capitalism. I think it'd be wrong to say that OWS didn't achieve anything or didn't have an impact on the financial system. They're reforming the financial industry and it's going to be a lot more difficult for banks to make big profits the way many of them did during the crisis. Also, taxes are going to be shot waaay up in a few short years.
I agree, and taxes for the rich should go up, just like they were under Clinton's presidency. Northern European nations generally have higher tax rates on the rich than America does and according to a poll, northern European nations have the happiest populations in the world. The poll could be ? but it's very telling that their societies have less social problems and better safety nets. That's why I'm still mad at your boy Obama for letting the Bush tax cuts continue smh, it added to the deficit a lot too. At least Obama is fighting for higher taxes now but damn, he shouldn't have caved in 2 years ago.
I agree with a lot OWS causes and for example many other Ron Paul supporters would too, but do we really need to raise taxes and promote more bailouts? I'm no economics major but I thought we wanted to lower taxes and avoid bailouts.
I'll be honest and say that I have never understood or really paid attention to OWS, but now after reading this thread, I can say that I'm pretty interested. So does the media cover OWS? The answer seems to be no.That's probably why I'm so ignorant about OWS. My guess is that the "powers that be" don't want this movement to succeed?
Still, I think that the criticism that OWS is spreading itself too thin is very fair. Like some of us have said, some of their alleged causes seem to conflict with each other and can discourage potential supporters. I'm sure that many millions of Americans agree with the movement's general platform and can and should change this country for the better, but the kind of unity of this magnitude doesn't seem to be happening. And that the fact they seem to not have any leaders and organization can only ? potential successes. I do like the fact that it's all grassroots though. -
well, "war fever" has died down for a lot of reasons, not least of which is the fact that these wars have been going on for a long, long time. it's hard to be enthused about/easier to be against a war that's been going on for 10 years.kingblaze84 wrote: »Obama and the federal govt is being pressured by OWS and other groups to speed up the withdrawal from Afghanistan, and Leon Panetta announced 2 months ago troops would end combat missions by early 2013 (it could be a lie but it's a start). War fever in America has died down big time, and I think OWS plays a roll in that.
this is also not something that i would give them sole credit for, because i thought it was more the customers of the banks in question than OWS. but i'll grant you it's much more in keeping with their concept of protesting Wall Street's actions.kingblaze84 wrote: »Banks also ended their ideas of debit card fees thanks to OWS and the tons of demonstrations by its many supporters.
