What Does It Mean to Be Black?
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lol ? came with a bunch of sob stories....SMH....wtf?
Really tho, ya'll ? ain't familiar with what melanin actually is? -
I dont dro ? you tell me
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2nd chances wrote: »what does it mean to be black.../rant..tl:dr
first we have to realize that being black and identifying yourself as black is only present and needed when you're in an area where there are others...ppl phenotypically different from you..say americas or europe.. in africa the idea of being black doesnt cross the mind of the average african based on conversation i've had..
most, especially the younger generation/african immigrants only realize they''re "black" when they move to america or europe..thats because in africa, africans identify themselves first by familial links...then tribal links..then part of the country that they're from...then the country that they're from...then what section of africa they're in...then AFRICAN...
hence if there's a conflict in a certain part of africa lets say zimbabwe...the african living in liberia doesnt necessarily look at it as their conflict...they look at it as a conflict facing THEM ie Zimbabweans..similarly..the struggle of blacks in america..the victimization of blacks in america isnt looked at as african problem but issues for THEM ie black americans...
its only when you come to europe or america that you get racialized(mental doctrination) to adopt this broad category called being "black"..thats when you start looking at the next man who looks phenotypically like you as a "brother/sister"..then they all of a sudden stop being THEM..and now start being US...You start for example looking at enslavement of black americans and jim crow and segregation not as their problem anymore..but a OUR problem..
once you're racialized to be black for example you start looking at africa and thinking all africa is "yours" because you dont identify yourself anymore as you used to ..you just think im black.. if there's a problem in zimbabwe..its now a black problem..
lets go back to the example of the liberian who may not necessarily care about issues in zimbabwe...lets say before he became racialized ..the issue in zimbabwe was due to the military invasion by say Germany..back then he/she probably would just say "oh its their issue with germany.."..but once he's now "black"..he would be thinking "white ppl.. are invading my black ppl's land this is also my fight"...
thats the reason a lot of africans when they come to america..you would see them fkking hard with or just not having any resentment towards white folks..because in their mind..white folks never hurt THEIR family members..white folks may have hurt The other group(ie black americans) but im not black american so why do i have to be resentful and angry??? but soon after once the blackness indoctrination sinks deep they would start looking at the white folks as perpetrators of evils towards "their ppl".....quite a lot go through taht exact phase..
so basically being black is a mindstate, its indoctrination and conditioning to strip yourself of any other way that you identify yourself and start identifying yourself according to those that phenotypically look like you..even though you might be different as night and day....they are no longer "them"..they are now "you and yours"..their problems and struggle become yours..
not ever phenotypically dark/black person is black...some can be dark as night and still never identify themselves as black..the issue with the african american is he's never figured out a way to identify him/herself deeper than being black..he doesnt have a native tongue..he doesnt have a unique tribe, he doesnt really have an exclusively unique culture...so being black is the only way he can identify himself..where as others have a choice in the matter
2nd chances broke it down for yall like a champ. I goat'ed
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@2nd Chancesfirst we have to realize that being black and identifying yourself as black is only present and needed when you're in an area where there are others...ppl phenotypically different from you..say americas or europe.. in africa the idea of being black doesnt cross the mind of the average african based on conversation i've had..
If I'm not mistaken today aren't those the conditions peoples in S. Africa faced with the Dutch, in Uganda, and Sudan with the arab sudanese and the african Sudanese, and even a growing issue in Nigeria with the Chinese running in their deep for the oil.its only when you come to europe or america that you get racialized(mental doctrination) to adopt this broad category called being "black"..thats when you start looking at the next man who looks phenotypically like you as a "brother/sister"..then they all of a sudden stop being THEM..and now start being US...You start for example looking at enslavement of black americans and jim crow and segregation not as their problem anymore..but a OUR problem..
The men who fought for Independence of their respective countries from colonial rule often identified with Blacks in America though. If one could look back in history they'd be able to see how the lack of national identity is what made Africa as a whole susceptible to invasion. It's why the Zulu tribe warred against the other surrounding tribes in order to thwart this mentality and unify a people against the invading British.so basically being black is a mindstate, its indoctrination and conditioning to strip yourself of any other way that you identify yourself and start identifying yourself according to those that phenotypically look like you..even though you might be different as night and day....they are no longer "them"..they are now "you and yours"..their problems and struggle become yours..
Africa thrived when it had it's own empires from the Egyptian to the Cush to the Coptic these empires forged a national identity and you defended that. Any other way you might identify yourself as according to family line and then tribe, and you could give a damn about anyone else, unless your family and tribe is a million strong that mindset leaves many a person vulnerable to the machinations of anyone even that of an invading people.
When white people first encountered africans thousands of years ago, they encountered the egyptian empire who had a national identity, religion, schools, sciences, resources and it they couldnt come in and just take over ? , they were left no choice but to admit their ignorance and come learn at the feet of egyptian priests. It wasn't until these europeans started interbreeding with the europeans that the vulnerability appeared.
China kicked out Europeans by nationalizing, no matter what village or province you come from ? all that now we're all Chinese. India did the same thing back when India and Pakistan were one nation. Japan did the same thing, before Japan was just five separate islands and they had to be unified and national identity forged.
National identity is essential to survival and thriving. -
PublicEnemigo1 wrote: »@2nd Chancesfirst we have to realize that being black and identifying yourself as black is only present and needed when you're in an area where there are others...ppl phenotypically different from you..say americas or europe.. in africa the idea of being black doesnt cross the mind of the average african based on conversation i've had..
If I'm not mistaken today aren't those the conditions peoples in S. Africa faced with the Dutch, in Uganda, and Sudan with the arab sudanese and the african Sudanese, and even a growing issue in Nigeria with the Chinese running in their deep for the oil.its only when you come to europe or america that you get racialized(mental doctrination) to adopt this broad category called being "black"..thats when you start looking at the next man who looks phenotypically like you as a "brother/sister"..then they all of a sudden stop being THEM..and now start being US...You start for example looking at enslavement of black americans and jim crow and segregation not as their problem anymore..but a OUR problem..
The men who fought for Independence of their respective countries from colonial rule often identified with Blacks in America though. If one could look back in history they'd be able to see how the lack of national identity is what made Africa as a whole susceptible to invasion. It's why the Zulu tribe warred against the other surrounding tribes in order to thwart this mentality and unify a people against the invading British.so basically being black is a mindstate, its indoctrination and conditioning to strip yourself of any other way that you identify yourself and start identifying yourself according to those that phenotypically look like you..even though you might be different as night and day....they are no longer "them"..they are now "you and yours"..their problems and struggle become yours..
Africa thrived when it had it's own empires from the Egyptian to the Cush to the Coptic these empires forged a national identity and you defended that. Any other way you might identify yourself as according to family line and then tribe, and you could give a damn about anyone else, unless your family and tribe is a million strong that mindset leaves many a person vulnerable to the machinations of anyone even that of an invading people.
When white people first encountered africans thousands of years ago, they encountered the egyptian empire who had a national identity, religion, schools, sciences, resources and it they couldnt come in and just take over ? , they were left no choice but to admit their ignorance and come learn at the feet of egyptian priests. It wasn't until these europeans started interbreeding with the europeans that the vulnerability appeared.
China kicked out Europeans by nationalizing, no matter what village or province you come from ? all that now we're all Chinese. India did the same thing back when India and Pakistan were one nation. Japan did the same thing, before Japan was just five separate islands and they had to be unified and national identity forged.
National identity is essential to survival and thriving.
Egypt was conquered by many different people over the centuries, and idk what ur talking about with " white people" admiting their ignorance and being at the feet of egyptian priests....but i'm guessing you mean alexander the great but he came in and conquered egypt and was called a liberator because he freed egpyt from persian rule.... i wouldnt call china and japan's emperors closing their doors to outsides a good thing in fact probably did more harm then good and i believe they already had a sense of identity before they even did that -
Egypt didn't get conquered until late in the game. Alexander the great is late into the game. Kemet existed as an empire spanning dynasties for thousands of years before european contact. Internal strife led to them being overrun by outsiders.
Pick up the book Destruction of Black Civilization by Chancellor WIlliams and you'll see what I'm talking about.
How has china closing it's doors to europe been a bad thing. perhaps the means was not the best but it was reactionary to having been carved up by european interests for the past 100 years.
Japan didn't do the same thing as China, but the five islands were unified as a means of protection.
National identity has always been the key to staving off foreign invaders. Every emperor understood this. -
...because he thinks he's from a country that's not Israel. it's not exactly an ethnic thing.PublicEnemigo1 wrote: »You'll never hear a Palestinian refer to themself as an Israeli.
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Right and we are also from a country not called America. Our continual collective efforts to be accepted and assimilated into a culture that has only peonage in mind has furthered our own situation.
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What does it mean to be white?
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feel free to renounce your citizenship and move, i guess. that said, you're talking about "I see the white identification just in calling ourselves american" and then throwing in the Palestinian-Israeli thing, so while i suppose there's an attempt to equate the two situations, it seems to be reaching.PublicEnemigo1 wrote: »Right and we are also from a country not called America.
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feel free to renounce your citizenship and move, i guess. that said, you're talking about "I see the white identification just in calling ourselves american" and then throwing in the Palestinian-Israeli thing, so while i suppose there's an attempt to equate the two situations, it seems to be reaching.PublicEnemigo1 wrote: »Right and we are also from a country not called America.
The situation is equatable. Israelis and Americans are examples two powers that are aggressively and violently abusive to people who are in a powerless position.
At least Palestinians have enough courage and sense to fight back in the situation.
You sound like a white boy when you say just renounce your citizenship and leave. As an individual, you may be content with your life in America that does not speak for every other black person in this country. My stance is based on a concern for the collective and not just the individual. There is work to be done here I don't know if you are cognizant of this or not.
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there is a distinct difference between the two situations; let's start with the nature of the territorial dispute and the fact that it's not really an ethnic debate between Palestinians and Israelis (even with talk about keeping Israel Jewish).PublicEnemigo1 wrote: »The situation is equatable. Israelis and Americans are examples two powers that are aggressively and violently abusive to people who are in a powerless position.
you sound like someone who doesn't feel confident in his argument when you call names in place of actually debating the topic.PublicEnemigo1 wrote: »You sound like a white boy when you say just renounce your citizenship and leave.
but that is my point. if you're not content and you want to improve your life, go ahead. if you're not content and you feel you CANNOT be accepted and assimilated in America --which is what you're basically saying-- then why would you want to stay in America?PublicEnemigo1 wrote: »As an individual, you may be content with your life in America that does not speak for every other black person in this country.
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@janklow Though the particular issue between Israelis and Palestinians may be territorial the heart of the issue is the classic sense of European entitlement. If Israelis were anyone but europeans the UN would not have militarily or financially backed them in displacing people to set up a territory.
At the heart of the issue between europeans and anyone but especially africans anywhere is this same sense of entitlement, because they are white they feel morally and eugenically justified in any wrong doing. That sensibility is bred into a great majority of them on a subconscious level.
As far as me feeling secure in my argument I'm always confident because at every tier: research, natural observation, and personal experience backs up my argument. I'm I said you come off as a white boy I'm just calling it how I see it. The only people I've ever heard use the go back to africa spiel are white boys.but that is my point. if you're not content and you want to improve your life, go ahead. if you're not content and you feel you CANNOT be accepted and assimilated in America --which is what you're basically saying-- then why would you want to stay in America?
The point is not about me. It's not about the individual it's about the collective. To remain in the mindset of individual achievements you set your progeny up for failure in the grand scheme of things.
Whether we are active or passive Black people are targets of a very active white supremacist system. The only way to overcome such a great foe is to also act as a collective. The system doesn't care about the individual because their time will run out. This system is built to suppress collective movements because that 50 people are stronger than one man and 100 are stronger than that. Which is why the US was shittin it's pants when Marcus Garvey organized 15 million Africans not for protest or marching but to achieve economic self sufficiency. However i know you already know this, you've studied history.
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i'm just going to move past the "anyone but Europeans" part because i'm not talking about the UN setting up Israel as much as i am the fact that Palestinians don't identify as Israelis not being something ethnic. once we go beyond comparing those groups, we start to lose the metaphor.PublicEnemigo1 wrote: »@janklow Though the particular issue between Israelis and Palestinians may be territorial the heart of the issue is the classic sense of European entitlement. If Israelis were anyone but europeans the UN would not have militarily or financially backed them in displacing people to set up a territory.
no one is saying "go back to Africa." what i AM saying is that you're posting how you feel you cannot be accepted and assimilated, so i have to ask why you'd want to stay somewhere where that's the case. if the attitude's constructive, like the current situation sucks but we're moving to X or Y, that's one thing, but when you get to "we'll never be accepted or assimilated," it seems a little different.PublicEnemigo1 wrote: »I'm I said you come off as a white boy I'm just calling it how I see it. The only people I've ever heard use the go back to africa spiel are white boys. -
PublicEnemigo1 wrote: »
My point is America is full of muts.White ppl be mixed w/ hella countries.Some of them got clear blooodlines like Irish ppl in Boston and Jewish ppl for example, but being black is simply a color classification.
We don't know what country we are from, so we are like refugees and our own little culture or tribe created here. We are a combination of American culture and the habits of our ancestors, mixed w/ a lot of pain for a lot of us
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i'm just going to move past the "anyone but Europeans" part because i'm not talking about the UN setting up Israel as much as i am the fact that Palestinians don't identify as Israelis not being something ethnic. once we go beyond comparing those groups, we start to lose the metaphor.PublicEnemigo1 wrote: »@janklow Though the particular issue between Israelis and Palestinians may be territorial the heart of the issue is the classic sense of European entitlement. If Israelis were anyone but europeans the UN would not have militarily or financially backed them in displacing people to set up a territory.
no one is saying "go back to Africa." what i AM saying is that you're posting how you feel you cannot be accepted and assimilated, so i have to ask why you'd want to stay somewhere where that's the case. if the attitude's constructive, like the current situation sucks but we're moving to X or Y, that's one thing, but when you get to "we'll never be accepted or assimilated," it seems a little different.PublicEnemigo1 wrote: »I'm I said you come off as a white boy I'm just calling it how I see it. The only people I've ever heard use the go back to africa spiel are white boys.
It's not about how I feel that I will never be accepted or assimilated the proof is in the pudding. Even before Reconstruction, free Negroes were doing the damnest they could to assimilate, to show that Blacks are just as American as anyone else. Blacks have fought in every war, even when we weren't wanted, acculturated dress, politics, and even standards of beauty. From the up until now that is what every fight has been about, to be accepted and assimilated.
However, if one were to take a psychoanalysis approach to history you'd see why general acceptance and assimilation is never in the cards. Unlike every other ethnic group, Blacks are not the descendants of immigrants, for the majority of us we are the descendants of slaves, and that has a whole different spin on everything. Especially when every other ethnic group in order to to be completely on the bottom, assumed the same social racism against Blacks slave or not. Although immigrants were allowed to come in to be another form of cheap labor they were paid labor, and is totally different from a group of people brought in to be a free source of labor. Then on top of being enslaved scientific minds of the time justified the condition through all sorts of quasi pseudo racist hypothesis that Africans were inherently inferior, on every level intellect, morally, physically, ambition. These continued and became more blatant and ridiculous after the end of slavery with us going from child like creatures unable to self govern to savage beasts on the prowl that must be hunted down.
The point being although every immigrating ethnic group had to deal with some form of racism it was never so continuously and harshly used as against blacks. These pseudo scientific claims are ingrained within the majority of white culture to this day. So while other ethnic groups may have acculturated through by shortening names and moving or by carving out an ethnic enclave that for the most part was unmolested by the socio political powers that be that has never been the case for Blacks, ever. Our every attempt of seeking acceptance of proving we are just as good as has been met with the stiffest of resistance by a majority of people who on a subconscious level believe the ? science that was spouted over 200 years ago. There are still white kids in the burbs who think black people have tails. WTF! Acceptance is not even on the map when subconsciously these people don't even see you as equally human as they are.
I choose to stay here because there is more good I can do here than just uprooting myself and moving to Africa. i've isolated myself from those in america still goin through. I've essentially neutralized myself from the game. Blacks in America are the most influential and wealthy group of Africans on the planet. As we go the rest of Africans go. -
let's be fair: it IS how you feel because not everyone agrees with you. i understand you have your argument for it, but it is what it is.PublicEnemigo1 wrote: »It's not about how I feel that I will never be accepted or assimilated the proof is in the pudding.
i am assuming you are classifying Native Americans as immigrants?PublicEnemigo1 wrote: »Unlike every other ethnic group, Blacks are not the descendants of immigrants, for the majority of us we are the descendants of slaves, and that has a whole different spin on everything.
i don't think non-black but minority-in-some-sense ethnic enclaves went for the most part unmolested. i suppose on some level we can debate the specificsPublicEnemigo1 wrote: »So while other ethnic groups may have acculturated through by shortening names and moving or by carving out an ethnic enclave that for the most part was unmolested by the socio political powers that be that has never been the case for Blacks, ever.
quote="PublicEnemigo1;4370632"]There are still white kids in the burbs who think black people have tails. WTF! Acceptance is not even on the map when subconsciously these people don't even see you as equally human as they are.[/quote]on the other hand, those white kids in the suburbs (or whoever fits that) think ALL KINDS of foolish ? about ALL KINDS of people, so...
