The Real Reasons People Believe in ? : Believers' Reasons for Religion, Theism

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  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2012
    @JadedRighteousness. My bad man. I hit the "feelings" button by mistake on that post. It would be nice if the IC just get rid of those features...anyway, no I haven't read it, but I decided to "Wiki" it and from the skimmings...if you are trying to say the Bible and the Dhammapada are similar then you are mistaken.

    The Dhammapada seems to suggest that mankind ultimately determines fate; that if you do good, then you get good in return; you do bad and you get bad in return. But, the Bible suggest that it doesn't matter if one does good or bad...sin is not pardonable by man's actions.
  • jono
    jono Members Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    **Applauds topic** well done.
  • judahxulu
    judahxulu Members Posts: 3,988 ✭✭✭✭✭
    1. Indoctrination into Religion

    Is it coincidence that people tend to stay with whatever religion they were raised in, and this religion tends to be whatever religion is dominant in the community/nation where they live?

    First of all, we live in a secular society that fiercely enforces separation of church and state so people are not "raised in a religion" in general per se. The people who actually insist on the literal interpretation and full immersion in their religions are labelled cults. The most recent Pew survey on religion in amerikkka found that 28% of all amerikkkans leave the religions they are raised ACQUAINTED WITH. Moreover, there are too many splinters and denominations for there to be large areas of populace who all believe the same a.d consider themselves to be of the same faith even if they are characterized as so from outsiders. Protestants and catholics, sunnis and sufis etc are examples.This is purely a drawn out snide remark and base implication that people believe in ? however they view it because of group-think. Juvenile and very broad strokes being painted. The over all picture is fallacy and here you have set that tone. No wonder bambu called this horseshit.


    2. Indoctrination into Anti-Atheist Bigotry

    If you keep being told that people who don't believe in your ? are evil, immoral, and a threat to the stable social order, then you would never dream of dropping your theistic religion.
    Only evangelical christians give a ? about atheists either way until ya'll get to talking ? , hurling dumb insults that sound smart and just plain being ? about things no one asked you about in the first place. Much like evangelical christians do. How ironic.... Atheists are not a monolithic group though. The disbelieve differently and have different approaches. There is no such thing as anti-atheist bigotry just a balanced response to the atheists that talk ? . I used to work with an atheist dude and I never had a problem with it and didn't know till I worked with him for half a year. He was a ? bag but no less or more than other ? bags that also happened to work there who just happened to be ? bags who (claim to) believe in some kind of ? or gods. Being on the offensive with militant atheism or whatever, will surely garner a justified militant response. Over-inflated sense of self-importance is showing from under your skirt, b.

    3. Peer & Family Pressure
    The role of peer pressure and familial pressure in maintaining at least a veneer of religiosity for many people cannot be denied.

    Whether or not certain ideas, ideologies, and practices can be questioned WITHIN A RELIGION depends on the religion. It is encouraged in Judaism and Buddhism, for example. The mental and/or emotional stimulation from this process STRENGTHENS bonds in different traditions. Youre doing this ? atheist habit of making evangelical christians = all religions= anybody who aint atheist or agnostic and its a gross fallacy through and through. Moreover, a "veneer of religiosity" is not the same as one who practices a religion as religions themselves usually have some kind of ideological filter or system of warning against those people with a "veneer of religiosity" you refer to. Is this about religious people, people who act religious or people who believe in a supreme being(s)? Those are all different things and your mixture of all of them in your tone is dishonest and suggests that you dont have a real platform to stand on, hence your heavy usage of speculative and erroneous notions enforced by fallacy.

    4. Fear of Death

    Many religious theists try to argue atheists into believing in a ? through the fear of what will happen after dying — either going to hell or simply ceasing to exist.

    Once again you are specifically describing an evangelical christian not a "religious theist" in general. They are the only ones who will try to "argue you into believing in a ? ". Moreover, some religions dont believe in afterlives. Either way...no one has ever been back to tell it so its a 50/50 chance theres an afterlife or not so there is no difference between believing or not believing in an afterlife.

  • judahxulu
    judahxulu Members Posts: 3,988 ✭✭✭✭✭

    5. Wishful Thinking

    The wish that physical death isn't the end of life probably isn't the only example of wishful thinking behind religious and theistic belief. There are a number of other ways in which people profess beliefs that appear to be more about what they wish were true than what they can support through good evidence and logic. Many Christians, for example, seem to wish quite strongly that there exists a place of eternal punishment awaiting all those who dare to deny them political and cultural dominion in America. Many conservative believers from many religions seem to wish that there is a ? which wants them to exercise unchecked power over women and minorities.

    Why do you keep using the words religious and theists when you are really referring to evangelical christians? The beliefs you say they have are not supported by the bible. And its been proven the men and women who do have political and cultural dominion are not religious theists anyway, but either some kind of pagan/polytheist/occultist or atheist. Also, you are not giving respect to the fact that they are basing their thinking on experiential evidence, empirical evidence, intuition and logic COMBINED. The strength or existence of each aspect varies per individual but no one seriously gets involved with a religion because of "wishful thinking" .


    6. Fear of Freedom & Responsibility

    One of the most disturbing aspects of many people's religious beliefs is the manner in which these beliefs make it possible for believers to avoid taking personal responsibility for what's going on. They don't have to be responsible for ensuring that justice is done because ? will provide that. They don't have to be responsible for solving environmental problems because ? will do that. They don't have to be responsible for developing strong moral rules because ? has done that. They don't have to be responsible for developing sound arguments in defense of their positions because ? has done that. Believers deny their own freedom because freedom means responsibility and responsibility means that if we fail, no one will rescue us.

    Total dumb ? . Provide evidence of ANY religion that absolves people from the responsibility of ensuring justice is done, from protecting the environment (earth) and from developing moral rules? I know for a fact the bible says the exact opposite. I purposely left out that stupidity on being responsible for having a "strong argument". Thats ? . That has nothing to do with freedom or the previous responsibilities listed. Dont even match the rest of the "responsibilities". A lot of people I know praise the Most High for having FREEDOM OF CHOICE. Totally unfounded statements about some unnamed, non-existent religion and its adherents that exist ENTIRELY IN YOUR HEAD.

    7. Lack of Basic Skills in Logic & Reasoning

    Most people don't learn nearly as much about logic, reason, and constructing sound arguments as they should.

    Hypocrite. How many times you use the phrase "most people" and subjective ? like "..as they should"? Who are these "most people" and how do you know them or of them? How do we quantify and qualify how much people should know or not know by standard rule? The ugly truth that Ive observed from most atheists that Ive encountered is you guys just parrot ? said by atheist celebrities and evangelists, but not as slick as they put it first. You have ego issues. Just because you cant grasp something and/or your own inadequacies prevent you from perceiving something doesnt mean it dont exist. You cats dont realize you ideology is no different than any other one. It has been fed to you and you dont know anything outside of the parameters set for you. There are different models of computing machines available but all require the programming remains in the same general syntax. Sound logic and reasoning should tell you if you havent taken time to individually to disprove every ? that has ever been claimed to exist then you probably shouldnt challenge people on that topic on the grounds of---sound logic and reasoning. Its your subjective assesment versus another. Yall just look lame throwing these atheist circle jerks all the time where you guys blabber pretentious ? about science and fairy tales when you ? are really saying a lot of nothing and have a problem with christians, not the Creator in general..namely because you never took the time to know what it is or isnt..
  • Gold_Certificate
    Gold_Certificate Members Posts: 13,228 ✭✭✭✭✭
    alissowack wrote: »
    @Gold_Certificate. That was what I was suggesting in my post; that the "Biblical Times" stuff is no different from today. The Bible speaks to the issues of this world and man's failed attempt to try to "do what's right".
    How would that give the "Bible" any validity though?
  • supaman4321
    supaman4321 Members Posts: 946
    I couldn't disagree more, in my search for the truth I told myself that if there wasn't anything that completely made sense and that I couldn't poke holes and point out flaw after flaw then I was sincerely ready to completely disbelieve in any ? because I refused to believe that an Almighty ? couldn't adequately explain himself to his creatures.

    I've accepted Islam and before I read about it knew ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about it so that knocks out your first point;

    At the time of the search my best friend was an atheist so i definitely had no bias against them or becoming one;

    I am the only Muslim in my entire family so there was zero peer pressure and I would argue that if somebody is sincere with their self then caving into peer pressure our outside influences shouldn't be a factor;

    on the contrary to absolving people of responsibility Allah informs us in the Qur'an that whoever does an atom's weight worth of good will be rewarded for it and whoever does an atom's weight of evil will be rewarded for it respectively which was very comforting because i strongly disagree with the "get out of jail free" card so to speak that some religions espouse

    once again point seven couldn't be further from the truth, constantly through the Qur'an the believer is commanded to think, ponder, and reflect on the world and their environment around them, also in another verse Allah states that it is He who is responsible for giving us our eyes, our ears, and our brains and we are required to use them to see his signs. I could even go as far as to say that the scientific method was first established by Muslim scholars 1400 years ago. Allah constantly challenges the reader of the Qur'an through sound logic and reason

    It sounds like you have more of a problem with Christians or Christianity than ? , it's ok to reject THEIR concept of view of ? if you don't agree with it but don't just give up there.

    Now to turn this on you, have you sincerely sought out your Lord? Allah says in the Qur'an that their are a people whom even if he came down from His throne and appeared clearly before them they still would not believe because their is a disease in their hearts and they refuse to believe. I pray that Allah keeps all of us here from becoming of those people, Ameen.
  • judahxulu
    judahxulu Members Posts: 3,988 ✭✭✭✭✭
    LOL... ? be funny when they act like I aint posted what I posted..... I know you read it and wept..
  • Disciplined InSight
    Disciplined InSight Members Posts: 13,478 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2012
    judahxulu wrote: »
    LOL... ? be funny when they act like I aint posted what I posted..... I know you read it and wept..

    So true. Feelings have been caught and now everything you posted is nonexistent.
  • judahxulu
    judahxulu Members Posts: 3,988 ✭✭✭✭✭
    judahxulu wrote: »
    LOL... ? be funny when they act like I aint posted what I posted..... I know you read it and wept..

    So true. Feelings have been caught and now everything you posted is nonexistent.

    Exactly. ? know the deal. This is a usual pattern which is no fun which is why I dont go as deep as I used to. You really shut a muthafucka down and they act like you aint said it.... ? gone push the feelings button on my posts but not refute..lol
  • Bodhi
    Bodhi Members Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not everybody has to reply to your ? . You ain't a king around here. That was your opinion on the o.p. and a bunch of feelings, which is why I pressed the feelings button. Ain't nobody got time for all that ? . You mad?

    judahxulu wrote: »
    Once again you are specifically describing an evangelical christian not a "religious theist" in general. They are the only ones who will try to "argue you into believing in a ? ".


    For example, this is false. gtfoh


  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2012
    alissowack wrote: »
    @Gold_Certificate. That was what I was suggesting in my post; that the "Biblical Times" stuff is no different from today. The Bible speaks to the issues of this world and man's failed attempt to try to "do what's right".
    How would that give the "Bible" any validity though?

    That post was really not meant to "validate" ? 's Existence. You went on this "all religions are the same" phase and I just pointed out what it doesn't have in common. Now you want a magic show with it. I can kind of see where this is going so I will take the risk of sounding like an old broken record. ? exist because the Bible says He Exists. Sure, you could continue to question me and maybe cause me to build a cloud of doubt in my head, but it doesn't change what the Bible says.

    I'm no Biblical scholar (and I really don't want to be), but I'm willing to bet that this issue of ? 's Existence is not throroughly sought after on your behalf. You have your trusted resources and you are running with it...no different than what some religious people do.
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm guessing I should've said, "I didn't type this", it's a copy and paste.
  • bambu
    bambu Members Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You know this thread is pure ether when all bambu can say is "horseshit"

    ? please.....
    You know this thread is gonna get ethered when bambu opens the comments with "horseshit"

    FIXED....

    Keep my name out your posts lil' ? ......
  • judahxulu
    judahxulu Members Posts: 3,988 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not everybody has to reply to your ? . You ain't a king around here. That was your opinion on the o.p. and a bunch of feelings, which is why I pressed the feelings button. Ain't nobody got time for all that ? . You mad?


    judahxulu wrote: »
    Once again you are specifically describing an evangelical christian not a "religious theist" in general. They are the only ones who will try to "argue you into believing in a ? ".


    For example, this is false. gtfoh


    name another religion where gaining converts is a central focus of the doctrine that the t/s would be most likely to come across... p[eople arent even ? ito religion that much anyway BUT them. you an old plain jane ass thinker trying to gussy it up with a dash of eastern philosophy and a sprinkle of western scientifc babble but you fail to think outside of the box set for you. i see through you like a philly cheesesteak paper bag. you people are no different from the religionists. youre dishonest, twist ? around, youre insincere with your beliefs or non-beliefs, you preach and prosyletize, neither of you do ? to make ? better but yall ? know everything and both of your positions are supposed to be so elite in your own ways but your ? is straight from the people who control your dumb ? while youre concerned about what a dinosaur shat a million years ago and your religious counterpart is waiting to meet jesus when he die. both of you got your heads so far up your ? yet sucking your own ? too hard to see that ALL YOU THINK YOU KNOW OR ACT LIKE YOU ARE SO SURE OF AND KNOW HAS NO EFFECT. how do i know? because you have no power. the people who manufacture your isms an scchisms of choice know the deal. they tell you relics and biblical archaeology is non-existent but they privately auction them for millions. you do not have it all figured out and my intellect OF THE TOP OF THE DOME reminds you. quit ? fronting like yore learned or something. you talk about ? you aint even investigated like you on that ? . you perpetrating a fraud. talking all that law ? and you govern by lesser noahic law lol. by the same people who told you the ? was a myth...? .
  • Gold_Certificate
    Gold_Certificate Members Posts: 13,228 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2012
    alissowack wrote: »
    alissowack wrote: »
    @Gold_Certificate. That was what I was suggesting in my post; that the "Biblical Times" stuff is no different from today. The Bible speaks to the issues of this world and man's failed attempt to try to "do what's right".
    How would that give the "Bible" any validity though?

    That post was really not meant to "validate" ? 's Existence. You went on this "all religions are the same" phase and I just pointed out what it doesn't have in common. Now you want a magic show with it. I can kind of see where this is going so I will take the risk of sounding like an old broken record. ? exist because the Bible says He Exists. Sure, you could continue to question me and maybe cause me to build a cloud of doubt in my head, but it doesn't change what the Bible says...
    The only statement I previously made to you in this thread was "There are myriads of other religious texts."; which there are. So where/how did I do the bolded?

    You said:
    alissowack wrote: »
    ...
    My reason for belief is that there is a problem that can't be solved by man's efforts and only ? has the answer.
    ...
    I've simply been asking you questions, to try to figure out where you learned of the "problem" in question, and how you determined that "only ? has the answer".
  • Bodhi
    Bodhi Members Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2012
    judahxulu wrote: »
    name another religion where gaining converts is a central focus of the doctrine

    Islam


    The rest of your post I didn't read because it wasn't important. Keep it simple, stupid. I wish that you could control your emotional outbursts and stop ranting all the time. Nobody wants to read that. Trust me. I'm trying to keep my day positive.
  • judahxulu
    judahxulu Members Posts: 3,988 ✭✭✭✭✭
    check my resume....my knowledge been in action and increases exponent
    judahxulu wrote: »
    name another religion where gaining converts is a central focus of the doctrine

    Islam


    The rest of your post I didn't read because it wasn't important. Keep it simple, stupid. I wish that you could control your emotional outbursts and stop ranting all the time. Nobody wants to read that. Trust me. I'm trying to keep my day positive.

    ? please.... i get paid to write....anyway...only pseudo-islamic cults...9/11 shut that ? down..orthodox accepts converts but they dont outreach....people usually volunteer
  • judahxulu
    judahxulu Members Posts: 3,988 ✭✭✭✭✭
    judahxulu wrote: »
    check my resume....
    judahxulu wrote: »
    name another religion where gaining converts is a central focus of the doctrine

    Islam


    The rest of your post I didn't read because it wasn't important. Keep it simple, stupid. I wish that you could control your emotional outbursts and stop ranting all the time. Nobody wants to read that. Trust me. I'm trying to keep my day positive.

    ? please.... i get paid to write....anyway...only pseudo-islamic cults...9/11 shut that ? down..orthodox accepts converts but they dont outreach....people usually volunteer
  • NothingButTheTruth
    NothingButTheTruth Members Posts: 10,850 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2012
    "If we were made in his image then call us by our names
    Most intellects do not believe in ? but they fear us just the same..."


  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2012
    alissowack wrote: »
    alissowack wrote: »
    @Gold_Certificate. That was what I was suggesting in my post; that the "Biblical Times" stuff is no different from today. The Bible speaks to the issues of this world and man's failed attempt to try to "do what's right".
    How would that give the "Bible" any validity though?

    That post was really not meant to "validate" ? 's Existence. You went on this "all religions are the same" phase and I just pointed out what it doesn't have in common. Now you want a magic show with it. I can kind of see where this is going so I will take the risk of sounding like an old broken record. ? exist because the Bible says He Exists. Sure, you could continue to question me and maybe cause me to build a cloud of doubt in my head, but it doesn't change what the Bible says...
    The only statement I previously made to you in this thread was "There are myriads of other religious texts."; which there are. So where/how did I do the bolded?

    You said:
    alissowack wrote: »
    ...
    My reason for belief is that there is a problem that can't be solved by man's efforts and only ? has the answer.
    ...
    I've simply been asking you questions, to try to figure out where you learned of the "problem" in question, and how you determined that "only ? has the answer".

    ...in which suggest to me that there are many texts that say "? Exists" by what you said. I have told you, according to the Bible, what the problem was...but you were more intent on validating that the Bible is true first before you consider what it has to say.
  • Bodhi
    Bodhi Members Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2012
    judahxulu wrote: »
    orthodox accepts converts but they dont outreach....people usually volunteer

    The Islamic crusades? Islam was born with a sword in hand.

    You said no one besides Christians will try to argue you into believing in a ? . That is so false it's not even funny
  • Gold_Certificate
    Gold_Certificate Members Posts: 13,228 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2012
    alissowack wrote: »
    alissowack wrote: »
    alissowack wrote: »
    @Gold_Certificate. That was what I was suggesting in my post; that the "Biblical Times" stuff is no different from today. The Bible speaks to the issues of this world and man's failed attempt to try to "do what's right".
    How would that give the "Bible" any validity though?

    That post was really not meant to "validate" ? 's Existence. You went on this "all religions are the same" phase and I just pointed out what it doesn't have in common. Now you want a magic show with it. I can kind of see where this is going so I will take the risk of sounding like an old broken record. ? exist because the Bible says He Exists. Sure, you could continue to question me and maybe cause me to build a cloud of doubt in my head, but it doesn't change what the Bible says...
    The only statement I previously made to you in this thread was "There are myriads of other religious texts."; which there are. So where/how did I do the bolded?

    You said:
    alissowack wrote: »
    ...
    My reason for belief is that there is a problem that can't be solved by man's efforts and only ? has the answer.
    ...
    I've simply been asking you questions, to try to figure out where you learned of the "problem" in question, and how you determined that "only ? has the answer".

    ...in which suggest to me that there are many texts that say "? Exists" by what you said. I have told you, according to the Bible, what the problem was...but you were more intent on validating that the Bible is true first before you consider what it has to say.
    Yes. I'm not disputing the content of the "Bible", I just want to know if and/or why you believe the "Bible" to be true instead of some other religious text.
  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2012
    alissowack wrote: »
    alissowack wrote: »
    alissowack wrote: »
    @Gold_Certificate. That was what I was suggesting in my post; that the "Biblical Times" stuff is no different from today. The Bible speaks to the issues of this world and man's failed attempt to try to "do what's right".
    How would that give the "Bible" any validity though?

    That post was really not meant to "validate" ? 's Existence. You went on this "all religions are the same" phase and I just pointed out what it doesn't have in common. Now you want a magic show with it. I can kind of see where this is going so I will take the risk of sounding like an old broken record. ? exist because the Bible says He Exists. Sure, you could continue to question me and maybe cause me to build a cloud of doubt in my head, but it doesn't change what the Bible says...
    The only statement I previously made to you in this thread was "There are myriads of other religious texts."; which there are. So where/how did I do the bolded?

    You said:
    alissowack wrote: »
    ...
    My reason for belief is that there is a problem that can't be solved by man's efforts and only ? has the answer.
    ...
    I've simply been asking you questions, to try to figure out where you learned of the "problem" in question, and how you determined that "only ? has the answer".

    ...in which suggest to me that there are many texts that say "? Exists" by what you said. I have told you, according to the Bible, what the problem was...but you were more intent on validating that the Bible is true first before you consider what it has to say.
    Yes. I'm not disputing the content of the "Bible", I just want to know if and/or why you believe the "Bible" to be true instead of some other religious text.

    And as the needle jumps on the record player back into the same groove...because the Bible says so. Sounds narrow minded and maybe even arrogant to say, but it is where many hear this and the focus is not on whether this is being said to gain trust, but whether it is seen as a reason to challenge it. So far, you think I'm saying this as a power play to get what I want; to suck you into my "congregation" so I can mooch off your success by feeding you broken promises by using the Good Book as a front. There is nothing intellectually satisfying or empowering about this claim especially when the religious are seen as "dumb" to the rest of the world anyway. Yet, it can be the very thing that set our minds at ease especially when we see this is all we need to know.
  • loch121
    loch121 Members Posts: 12,884 ✭✭✭✭✭
    get out of the Matrix

    While I believe in some force of life I know religions are just guessing games

    We don't know ?
  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    @loch121. Have you seen the matrix? Only in the matrix, life could be whatever you want it to be. Out of it, you were left with reminders of how man doesn't have a choice...the machines were making them.

    And in Morpheous description of the Matrix...he said it was "everywhere". We ought not think the blinders only exist in religion.