So..........Is it time for the Federal Govt to

blakfyahking
blakfyahking Members Posts: 15,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited August 2012 in The Social Lounge
stop subsidizing the cost of college?

Are tuition rates only increasing because of the availability of govt assistance?

Will the job market become more reasonable if everyone can't afford college?

http://www.stlouisfed.org/publications/itv/articles/?id=1722

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/top-graduate-schools/paying/articles/2012/03/13/grad-students-to-lose-federal-loan-subsidy

what do you think?
«1

Comments

  • Bully_Pulpit
    Bully_Pulpit Members Posts: 5,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No...it aint changing no time soon. A shakedown is happening before our very eyes.
  • heyslick
    heyslick Members Posts: 1,179
    IMO

    Fundamentally changing America has taken place & if U don't believe it? or if this is the direction you want the country to go - vote to re-elect Mister Transformer - & let him spread the wealth around. FYI he's coming for mister and misses suburbia next & those entities tax monies will be given to the poorer cities - spread the wealth around.
  • heyslick
    heyslick Members Posts: 1,179
    Has anyone noticed the POTUS and his Vice President scare tactics of late - spread the wealth around & the VP talking about some folks being chained - WOW! SORRY! I forgot those two individuals can always claim there words were taken out of context - FYI when serious ?'s start taking place about President Obama's REAL HIDDEN agenda - remember he did say these things below - of course hes so transparent he'll deny it.

    For more than two decades, Obama and his fellow radical community activists, agitators have been working toward punishing all those people who voted with their feet and fled the cities and left them filled with only poor and minority residents. "Suburbs are for sellouts...For Obama, the suburbs are a defect in the very structure of American life. That is why the president backs his old friends' movement to abolish them."


    BTW this government will do whatever it wants.
  • blakfyahking
    blakfyahking Members Posts: 15,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    so nobody thinks that college tuition rates are inflated by all the extra subsidies?

    SMH @ having to have a college degree just to compete for a job that only needs a high-school education
  • High Revolutionary
    High Revolutionary Members Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2012
    I'm no expert on the topic, but I've learned that generally the more the government intervenes in markets the more damage is done.

    So to your question my answer is yes.
  • Plutarch
    Plutarch Members Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    so nobody thinks that college tuition rates are inflated by all the extra subsidies?

    SMH @ having to have a college degree just to compete for a job that only needs a high-school education

    I'm no expert too, but I've heard this, and it seems true. But again, I'm not expert. What would be a good alternative if we take away government assistance for those economically disadvantaged?

    It's a travesty how expensive higher education is in America because I personally think that education is one of the most important values to have in this world. What's more unsettling is that education seems to be a commodity exclusively and seemlessly accessible to a small minority.

    However, isn't lesser known/prestigous and thus less expensive schools always an option to those who can't afford big name schools?
  • blakfyahking
    blakfyahking Members Posts: 15,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2012
    Plutarch wrote: »
    so nobody thinks that college tuition rates are inflated by all the extra subsidies?

    SMH @ having to have a college degree just to compete for a job that only needs a high-school education

    I'm no expert too, but I've heard this, and it seems true. But again, I'm not expert. What would be a good alternative if we take away government assistance for those economically disadvantaged?

    It's a travesty how expensive higher education is in America because I personally think that education is one of the most important values to have in this world. What's more unsettling is that education seems to be a commodity exclusively and seemlessly accessible to a small minority.

    However, isn't lesser known/prestigous and thus less expensive schools always an option to those who can't afford big name schools?

    I think that money being spent on college would probably be better served by putting it in public schools

    what's killing us is that the federal govt is half ass trying to support both college and public education (high school and below) at the same time




    both corporations and colleges take advantage of the Fed govt by raising tuition and requiring workers to have more education..............

    college degrees are generally a luxury considering that companies claim they want workers to have experience on top of getting a degree SMH

    if corporations want educated workers, they should be forced to pay for them.................instead of forcing citizens to take on ridiculous debt and waste time trying to find a job that won't even utilize the ? they learned in a degree program
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The federal govt should not stop giving grants, loans, or scholarships to those who have earned it and need it. We don't want to be like so many nations around the globe where if you are born poor, you will stay poor. This is usually the way it is worldwide, I've met people from overseas, and this is very common. There is only ONE problem with college tuition now, well, two.....

    Number one, TOO MANY PEOPLE are getting degrees or are going for them. It is diluting the worth of a degree, and as a result, prices are rising. The 2nd reason is GREED. Plain and simple. You can even argue it's just greed, but these are the main two reasons in my opinion. Welcome to capitalism.........
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2012
    I'm no expert on the topic, but I've learned that generally the more the government intervenes in markets the more damage is done.

    So to your question my answer is yes.

    This is true in many cases but the alternatives are often even more worse. Like housing for example. Subsidized housing is the reason so many people aren't homeless in the streets. The projects often have higher crime rates and other issues, but better they have housing with good utilities than living in a shelter with many people in the same room as your child or your girl. But I will say this, the govt has bankrupted America thanks to selfish politicians and stupid policies.

  • blakfyahking
    blakfyahking Members Posts: 15,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2012
    The federal govt should not stop giving grants, loans, or scholarships to those who have earned it and need it. We don't want to be like so many nations around the globe where if you are born poor, you will stay poor. This is usually the way it is worldwide, I've met people from overseas, and this is very common. There is only ONE problem with college tuition now, well, two.....

    Number one, TOO MANY PEOPLE are getting degrees or are going for them. It is diluting the worth of a degree, and as a result, prices are rising. The 2nd reason is GREED. Plain and simple. You can even argue it's just greed, but these are the main two reasons in my opinion. Welcome to capitalism.........

    the bolded is why I think the Fed govt should stop subsidizing college and should invest in public schools at a lower level to bring parity back to basic education for kids

    too many people are getting degrees because it's too cheap with fed loans, and companies who claim they need college educated workers save money by not having to pay for their worker's education

    it makes no sense to require a college degree AND experience if companies aren't willing to spend the money to train employees that make them money...........especially when companies refuse to pay decent salaries for entry level workers

    the greed comes from these professors and administrators at college who's focus is running the school like a business instead of actually educating folks

    so in the end, workers end up with wasted valuable time, a boatload of debt, and a degree that doesn't get them a decent job............and if they get a job, the company refuses to pay workers a decent salary just to save the company more money

    I'm no expert on the topic, but I've learned that generally the more the government intervenes in markets the more damage is done.

    So to your question my answer is yes.

    This is true in many cases but the alternatives are often even more worse. Like housing for example. Subsidized housing is the reason so many people aren't homeless in the streets. The projects often have higher crime rates and other issues, but better they have housing with good utilities than living in a shelter with many people in the same room as your child or your girl. But I will say this, the govt has bankrupted America thanks to selfish politicians and stupid policies.

    housing is a different animal then education

    citizens who pay/have paid taxes should always have access to decent housing no matter what
  • jono
    jono Members Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You'll never get me to agree to put a chain around the ankles of certain people to benefit others. Your idea is to purposely hold certain people back to increase the "value" of others? That's ridiculous.

    Colleges need to start teaching people how to better use their degrees and not to rely on the greedy corporations to hire. That is of course in certain cases, some people have niche degrees (like Art, Music etc) that doesn't translate outside of a small circle, those people could go looking for a job (they should have something in mind before graduation) if that doesn't work, go into business for themselves or end up out here doing nothing because nobody needs a person with a bachelors in music.

    Stop catering to people and cut out the middle man. There's no demand? ? it, create a demand. That's what everyone else does. If you have a degree in something open up a shop, if it fails, so what? you tried. College debt isn't like credit card debt its not held against you the same way.

    The idea that only certain people should be able to attain anything is improper to me. I have no intention of creating a permanent lower caste. This county's educational system is totally ? up and its because its centered around purposely holding back certain kids.
  • blakfyahking
    blakfyahking Members Posts: 15,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2012
    jono wrote: »
    You'll never get me to agree to put a chain around the ankles of certain people to benefit others. Your idea is to purposely hold certain people back to increase the "value" of others? That's ridiculous.

    Colleges need to start teaching people how to better use their degrees and not to rely on the greedy corporations to hire. That is of course in certain cases, some people have niche degrees (like Art, Music etc) that doesn't translate outside of a small circle, those people could go looking for a job (they should have something in mind before graduation) if that doesn't work, go into business for themselves or end up out here doing nothing because nobody needs a person with a bachelors in music.

    Stop catering to people and cut out the middle man. There's no demand? ? it, create a demand. That's what everyone else does. If you have a degree in something open up a shop, if it fails, so what? you tried. College debt isn't like credit card debt its not held against you the same way.

    The idea that only certain people should be able to attain anything is improper to me. I have no intention of creating a permanent lower caste. This county's educational system is totally ? up and its because its centered around purposely holding back certain kids.

    you think saddling folks with debt that they can't discharge in bankruptcy isn't putting a chain around their ankles fam?


    nobody said anything about holding someone back..............asking the govt to give you entitlement to something that should be exclusive lessens its worth: attempting to fix prices to make college affordable makes everybody's degree less valuable


    if not enough people can afford college, then who is going to pay this high ass tuition that goes to professor salaries?

    professors didn't go thru the ed system just to give up their jobs because the real price of college is too high.........if enrollment falls guarantee tuition rates will comeback down to reasonable levels that will provide everyone an opportunity to get a decent college degree without the crazy debt
  • jono
    jono Members Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭✭

    you think saddling folks with debt that they can't
    discharge in bankruptcy isn't putting a chain
    around their ankles fam?

    nobody said anything about holding someone
    back..............asking the govt to give you
    entitlement to something that should be exclusive
    lessens it's worth: attempting to fix prices to make
    college affordable makes everybody's degree less
    valuable

    if not enough people can afford college, then who
    is going to pay this high ass tuition that goes to
    professor salaries?
    professors didn't go thru the ed system just to give
    up their jobs because the real price of college is
    too high.........if enrollment falls guarantee tuition
    rates will comeback down to reasonable levels that
    will provide everyone an opportunity to get a
    decent college degree without the crazy debt

    1-underlined> College is a choice first of all, second you pretty much have to hold back those that want to go if they can't afford it. Also like I said college debt is not the same as credit card debt, college debt is an investment in yourself.

    2-bolded>first you said you not trying to hold anyone back and now you expressing that its necessary to hold people back. Your degree means as much as you make it mean anyway, you aren't guaranteed ? out here. I shun the entire concept of "exclusivity" in education, how dare you attempt to set barriers on people out here? Who then gets to make the choice of who is "worthy"? This nonsense falls into the good old two tier system that has kept entire families behind for generations.

    3-underlined> Again talking about debt that people choose to incur because THEY WANT to go to school. "Tuition back down to reasonable levels" reasonable to whom? There's still going to be college debt you will just have fewer people with it. Incredibly short-sighted commentary on your part.

    College aint free, therefore people will have to pay, and therefore only those that can afford to go will able to. Its creating a permanent caste system featuring lower class plebeians that can only watch and serve, never to be even given an opportunity to participate in pulling themselves up.
  • blakfyahking
    blakfyahking Members Posts: 15,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @jono

    are you a communist fam? you do realize this is America............and with capitalism the premise is about competition

    the govts job isn't to guarantee anything for participants in the market, it's role is to ensure that the operations of a free market is fair as much as possible


    now apply these real-life facts to what is happening with the college ed system

    in order to propose what you are saying, we might as well get rid of loans and make college free for everyone..........but the problem is that all you will do is create a two-tier system where the poor will be excluded regardless (the same caste system you are trying to avoid)

    you can't subsidize an industry and then be surprised that prices are inflated.......



  • blakfyahking
    blakfyahking Members Posts: 15,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    the justification why corporations desire college graduates now is because firms claim the basic qualifications expected of workers are not provided by lower public education alone..........so colleges stepped up to fill a void in the market

    but the problem now is that companies aren't being forced to pay for workers getting educated thru either appropriate salaries to reasonably pay off loans, or thru on-the-job training


    so why not take the money being spent to subsidize college and instead spend it on lower public education (that everyone has access to)................then not only will you improve access to quality education to everyone (at earlier ages), but then you also have the ability to force companies to spend the money necessary to get college educated workers if they need them so bad



    it will lead to less unnecessary degrees and will have the ability to improve access of quality education to disadvantaged groups

    it will also lead to more quality teachers for children instead of more unnecessary professors in fields that don't help people get employment
  • jono
    jono Members Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @jono
    are you a communist fam? you do realize this is
    America............and with capitalism the premise is
    about competition
    the govts job isn't to guarantee anything for
    participants in the market, it's role is to ensure that
    the operations of a free market is fair as much as
    possible

    Like I said Gov't doesn't guarantee you ? . You borrow, you work, you get the degree and then you pay for it. ? not free at all, not in the least. Don't try to brow-beat me with capitalist propaganda, there's nothing "fair" about markets and competition barely exists in the world as it is. Its all fairy tales so moving on...
    now apply these real-life facts to what is
    happening with the college ed system
    in order to propose what you are saying, we might
    as well get rid of loans and make college free for
    everyone..........but the problem is that all you will
    do is create a two-tier system where the poor will
    be excluded regardless
    (the same caste system
    you are trying to avoid)

    Again nope. People borrow, they work, they get the degree and then they go forward. What's so hard to understand about that? Nobody is being forced to go to college. Those people choose to take on that responsibility.
    you can't subsidize an industry and then be
    surprised that prices are inflated.......
    Like oil, coal, electricity, defense contractors, Walmart shall I continue? Tons of industries are subsidized already in fact you'd be hard pressed to find one that isn't.

    Using your logic we should we then abolish public schools? How about the Small Business Administration? HUD's gotta go, basically anything that's designed to uplift people should be taken away so that a few people can feel better about themselves under a false pretense.
  • jono
    jono Members Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    the justification why corporations desire college
    graduates now is because firms claim the basic
    qualifications expected of workers are not
    provided by lower public education
    alone..........so colleges stepped up to fill a void in
    the market
    but the problem now is that companies aren't
    being forced to pay for workers getting educated
    thru either appropriate salaries to reasonably pay
    off loans, or thru on-the-job training

    so why not take the money being spent to
    subsidize college and instead spend it on lower
    public education (that everyone has access to)
    ................then not only will you improve access
    to quality education to everyone (at earlier ages),
    but then you also have the ability to force
    companies to spend the money necessary to get
    college educated workers if they need them so
    bad

    it will lead to less unnecessary degrees and will
    have the ability to improve access of quality
    education to disadvantaged groups
    it will also lead to more quality teachers for
    children instead of more unnecessary professors
    in fields that don't help people get employment

    One thing I've noticed is that you insist on people working for others, I insist that working for others is merely an option. That's the beauty in a college degree, you have options and that is also why I disagree with your entire premise.

    However you are correct inasmuch as corporations aren't paying for on the job training, which is merely a sign of their own greed and has nothing to do with colleges. A college is not a robot factory that just pumps out empty suits. A college should not exist to ONLY fill voids in corporations, that's your and the corporations problem. They want workers they should PAY for workers, period.

    Not everyone wants to be a cog in the wheel, some people want to be the ? wheel. With a college degree they have the option of being a wheel or a cog or anything else. They have knowledge of something that is interesting to THEM. It enriches THEIR life.

    That last point just goes to show you have no respect for creative endeavors. You think everyone is out looking to be apart of a corporate boardroom when they aren't. As I mentioned already...

    There was a time when the arts, things like dance, literature, painting, music were held in high esteem in this country and someone could do it and live off of it for the length of their lifespan. Now unless it makes you a millionaire within 5 years its "unnecessary"...go figure.
  • blakfyahking
    blakfyahking Members Posts: 15,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    you reaching cause I'm actually advocating to take the money currently used for college loans and instead spend it on public education so younger kids can get a better education


    why should my tax dollars go to some grown cat borrowing money to get an exclusive ? degree? when that same money could be used to improve public schools for all kids who need a better basic education?

    you claiming you trying to uplift people but then you basically advocating for them to be in debt, while continuing to let companies off the hook to pay for the human resources they get to exploit

    companies are still going to have a preference for graduates from private schools, so helping mofos get generic degrees ain't doing ? but raising the value of private school degrees anyway (and further degrades all other degrees)



    those other industries you used in your argument are different and have subsidies for different reasons bruh.........you think it's cool we got $1trillion in unpaid student loans hanging over the economy just cause Apple/Microsoft/Google wants engineers without having to pay for their education?

  • jono
    jono Members Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Your bias is showing now. I figured you'd get emotional.
    you reaching cause I'm actually advocating to take
    the money currently used for college loans and
    instead spend it on public education so younger
    kids can get a better education
    why should my tax dollars go to some grown cat
    borrowing money to get an exclusive ?
    degree? when that same money could be used to
    improve public schools for all kids who need a
    better basic education?

    We could play the "why should my tax dollars..." game all day because I have a laundry list but I bet you don't give a ? , and quite frankly I don't care for your bellyaching either. Quit crying your taxes aren't going down in any event.

    You call people doing what they want ? ? Did someone ? all over your dreams and now you want to be a big man and do the same to others?

    Kids need better education in elementary schools, no doubt about that, but you've shown your hand, its not about helping kids. Its about you being a hater. If you really wanted to help kids you would call for the closing of tax loopholes on major corporations sitting on huge profits, if you really wanted to help kids this topic would actually be about ya know....helping kids.
    you claiming you trying to uplift people but then
    you basically advocating for them to be in debt,

    while continuing to let companies off the hook to
    pay for the human resources they get to exploit
    companies are still going to have a preference for
    graduates from private schools,
    so helping mofos
    get generic degrees ain't doing ? but raising the
    value of private school degrees anyway
    (and
    further degrades all other degrees)

    I'm advocating people being able to do more with themselves. It just so happens they have to go into debt to do it but then again they have to go into debt to get a house and a car too. I suppose they shouldn't be able to....?

    You defeat your own argument with the bolded. If companies are going to automatically pick private school grads then..well, we all ? up anyway so you might as well leave the current system in place. Like I said nobody forcing anyone to do anything.

    With the underlined again your bias shows. Who cares what they get degrees in? They have to pay it back anyway. Its essentially their own money. You want people to be told what they can study?

    And I'm hardly letting companies off the hook, you want them to be widgets for corporate America. Just pieces on a chess board, I want them to have options and opportunity.
    those other industries you used in your argument
    are different and have subsidies for different
    reasons bruh
    .........you think it's cool we got $
    1trillion in unpaid student loans hanging over the
    economy just cause Apple/Microsoft/Google
    wants engineers without having to pay for their
    education?

    Remember when you said "why should my tax dollars..."? That's how I felt when I read that ? retort I underlined.

    Can't force people to be what they don't want to be. Nothing is stopping those businesses from paying for workers, go apply pressure to them, leave everyone else alone. If your beef is with Apple and Microsoft then you need to ? to Apple and Microsoft.

    Those damn business wouldn't pay for it anyway, it would be the same ? . People borrowing money from the gov't to go to school and then being forced to pay it back. They expect people to come to them and cater to them. Like I said not everyone wants to do that, if they see talent they need to go to it, why wait for it to come to you? Talk about your sense of entitlement.
  • jono
    jono Members Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This conversation has lost its luster for me. I'll consider your proposal and look into further. I can tell you right now that all the capitalist propaganda doesn't do you any good, all that ? is based on theory and not what really happens in the real world.

    There should be no profit motive for colleges, see that's the ? that's inflating tuition right there! A college's goal should be the same as a high school, producing educated students with options and opportunity, not ? production.

    If corporations want pawns they need to produce them themselves. You going on about it not being the gov'ts job to give grants..hey I can flip that too, its not the gov'ts job to educate Apple workers either, considering you have a problem with one and not the other tells me you have an issue with Apple.

    Really, who is stopping these corporations from fronting scholarships to kids who are awesome in math and science? They can step in and take pressure off the gov't by doing that, hell make it tax deductible (they get tax reduction for everything else)...but no, no, no. We have to hold some folks back instead. Why doesn't Apple or Microsoft open a school specifically for what they need? Nope, too much like right, let's just blame the gubment, its easier.

    So I'm done. Good conversation though.
  • blakfyahking
    blakfyahking Members Posts: 15,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @jono

    you are trying to twist my argument and displaying your own bias

    of course the arts are valuable...........but do you really need college to pursue anything in the arts?

    the same logic also applies to science disciplines as well............if companies need workers with scientific degrees, then those companies should pay for them............not the taxpayers when tax money should be spent to benefit everyone

    you wouldn't need college to follow your dreams if you got a better education in public schools...........otherwise we wouldn't have so many millionaires without college degrees while there are people with Master's degrees busing tables

    and just like you said, if corporations want "pawns", I have stated repeatedly that they should pay for them which is why I don't understand the premise of your argument




    and you can act as if "capitalist propaganda" has no root in reality, but we all are forced to acknowledge that the market sets the price of a product.............and if sellers are capable of collusion, it's pretty much a guarantee that they will raise the price of a product higher than its intrinsic value out of the sake of greed

    which is why colleges currently charge high ass tuition rates now, cause they know they can get away with it when the fed govt will supplement it................meanwhile corporations don't have a need to front scholarships, cause what incentive do they have to pay if the fed govt is already willing to?
  • blakfyahking
    blakfyahking Members Posts: 15,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jono wrote: »

    Can't force people to be what they don't want to be. Nothing is stopping those businesses from paying for workers, go apply pressure to them, leave everyone else alone. If your beef is with Apple and Microsoft then you need to ? to Apple and Microsoft.

    Those damn business wouldn't pay for it anyway, it would be the same ? . People borrowing money from the gov't to go to school and then being forced to pay it back. They expect people to come to them and cater to them. Like I said not everyone wants to do that, if they see talent they need to go to it, why wait for it to come to you? Talk about your sense of entitlement.

    ^^^obviously does not understand basic economics
  • blakfyahking
    blakfyahking Members Posts: 15,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    tabatha_ wrote: »
    No, the government should not stop subsidising college loans. What first needs to be addressed is the degrees offered, and the colleges out there. The problem is not that too many people are trying to go to college, it's that the quality of the degree and the college is subpar.

    Students are leaving university (this is a worldwide problem) with debt and a degree that really isn't worth ? . The UK government is taking steps to close down very low-level universities and do away with useless degrees. This needs to be done on a worldwide scale.

    On top of that, the whole "university is the only way to go" mentality needs to be changed. A lot of people go just because they feel they must.

    And I don't want to see any generalised criticism thrown towards the Liberal Arts. SMH.


    the bolded is contradictory tho

    cause what do you think the standard will be if we leave it up to the govt to evaluate which degrees are valuable?

    how will they value a degree? that right there is a slippery slope that will lead to quantifying a degree


    the underlined is why I say corporations/individuals should be the ones paying for college if a degree is so necessary

    why should taxpayers be forced to pay for a degree just at the discretion of an individual to benefit a private corporation? I think college should either be free, or the govt should pay only for degrees that the govt deems useful.............which it already does thru many current existing programs

    but to just give mofos a loan to choose a degree that is only for the individual seems selfish and wasteful


    besides I would rather pay for more teachers and give them raises for teaching kids vs. paying fewer professors to teach adults and encouraging them to be in debt
  • jono
    jono Members Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lol, okay broski whatever you say.
    meanwhile corporations don't have a
    need to front scholarships, cause what incentive
    do they have to pay if the fed govt is already willing
    to?

    Didn't you say they are low on talent? You think corporations should just sit and complain and not be active in finding their own talent? Ridiculous. They have a full bank of talent...I'll discuss this later.

    Your argument isn't being twisted at all, I countered everything you said and you aren't saying anything I haven't heard already. Your going in circles.

    The NCAA sponsors college sports teams to search for talent to give away scholarships and help kids go through college (even though NCAA has its own problems) yet other huge corporations with billions in profit cannot? That's too much to ask for huh?
    and if sellers are capable of
    collusion, it's pretty much a guarantee that they
    will raise the price of a product higher than its
    intrinsic value out of the sake of greed
    which is why colleges currently charge high ass
    tuition rates now

    Who is seliing something? The problem with your entire argument is that you believe that a college is a corporation selling goods, a student isn't a "good". Selling widgets and education are two different things.


    China will have 200 million college
    graduates—more than the entire U.S. workforce.
    Chinese national goals are ambitious and inspiring.

    By 2020 China plans to:
    Enroll 40 million children in preschool, a 50 percent
    increase from today
    Provide 70 percent of children in China with three
    years of preschool
    Graduate 95 percent of Chinese youths through
    nine years of compulsory education (that’s 165
    million students, more than the U.S. labor force)
    Ensure that no child drops out of school for
    financial reasons

    More than double enrollment in higher education
    Double the share of the working-age population
    that completes higher education to 195 million
    workers.

    To achieve these goals, China is deploying a
    coordinated set of strategies that directly track the
    policy levers economists and experts have identified
    as critical to boosting human capital and economic
    competitiveness.

    Specifically:
    Families and early childhood education. The
    1988 “Act of Protecting Female Staff and Workers”
    gave women, employed by public enterprises, a
    minimum of 90 days paid maternity leave, and
    covered related medical costs, which was increased
    to 98 days in 2011. The 2010 “National Plan for
    Medium and Long Term Education Reform and
    Development” established a target of near universal
    coverage for one year of kindergarten over the
    following decade.
    Kindergarten-through-12th grade education.
    Chinese children compete in a global economy.
    Foreign language classes, often English, are often
    begun in the third grade and studied through
    middle school. The government’s goal is for 90
    percent of eligible students to be enrolled in high
    school by 2020, up from 80 percent today.
    Higher education. In 2010 China became the
    world’s largest provider of higher education— and
    will grant degrees to more than 200 million people
    over the next two decades. It’s improving its state-
    run universities accordingly.
    Today, China ranks
    sixth in the world among countries with the most
    universities ranked in the world’s top 500
    universities.

    Teacher quality. China is improving the quality of
    its teachers, even as their numbers explode. The
    number of teachers with bachelor’s degree has
    increased 66 percent in just eight years, with almost
    two-thirds of primary school teachers with a higher
    degree. There are nearly 6 million secondary school
    teachers in China, up from about 3 million in 1980.
    And the number of university-level teachers has
    grown to nearly 1 million from 250,000.

    To be sure, China faces massive challenges,
    including rising inequality and inferior educational
    quality and access to schools in rural and migrant
    populations. But despite these obstacles, China’s
    momentum and its education- focused economic
    strategy will make the country increasingly
    competitive in sophisticated industries—precisely
    those where U.S. workers now lead the
    competition.

    http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/economy/report/2012/08/21/11983/the-competition-that-really-matters/

    Now you see the answer to my question. Corporations run to China & India because of the skilled labor BUT WHY does China & India have such amounts of skilled labor? BECAUSE THEY FUND EDUCATION from elementary (primary) school through college
    End of story, like I said before, this isn't going anywhere.
  • blakfyahking
    blakfyahking Members Posts: 15,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @jono

    if corporations are searching for so much talent

    then why are there so many jobless folks with degrees right now when there are several companies sitting on record levels of cash?

    I see on this forum that mofos like to think in terms of black and white, but never consider the gray

    being against subsidizing loans doesn't equate to not investing in college education SMH




    you used China as an example which is way different then the US...........plus ironically you overlook that even China has invested heavily at lower grades before their people get to college..............how many public schools in the US on average are teaching a second language to 3rd graders?

    like I said, you still haven't refuted my argument.............and SMH @ you thinking colleges ain't selling a "good" to these corporations.............the problem is the fed govt pays for it and private companies profit from it......all at the expense of the student being shackled by debt to encourage them to work for the company

    but you are arguing that you are ok with this? you looking real republican right now fam LOL