Can lebron be better than mj?
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blackjack2012 wrote: »blackjack2012 wrote: »
It took lebron 9 yrs and a different team, Jordan took 7 yrs...let's keep things in perspective now.blackjack2012 wrote: »Yes, people need to shut the ? up with that ring argument and then conveniently dismiss Bill Russell's accomplishments. I think individually Lebron will win as many if not more mvps than MJ and break alot of scoring records, i don't see him winning 6 rings though but he will come close.
I hear what you sayin, but they also talked about Jordan being six for six champion and six finals mvps. I don't think lebron will have any scoring records maybe equal his reg. season mvps but that's it...remember he played in two finals and never scored over 24 points in those games and was swept out his frist appearance
Lebron actually made it to the finals...twice before the age of 26 and won his first at the age of 27. Jordan got eliminated by the Pistons three straight times in the ECF before he won his first chip at the age of 28. Lets keep things in perspective.
And this is a knock against Lebron how? You're essentially saying Bron was better at a younger age.
91 Bulls had Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant and Phil. Before these three arrived Jordan wasnt getting out of the ECF.
What? I said it took Jordan less years in the league and if I remember he didn't choke his first two tries
You can't use that years in the league argument when Jordan never had to carry a franchise at 18 years old, a terrible team at that. I mean when Lebron was 18 dude was the best player on his team and carrying some bums, when Kobe was 18 he was piggybacking off of Shaq and some established good players. -
-Jordan never lost in an NBA finals, let alone 2
-Jordan didn't have to leave his team and go join ANOTHER guy who already won a ring to win his. Jordan has the most rings on the bulls... Wade will always have 1 more than lebron.
-Jordan dominated in Eras that had dominant big man and he was a small guy... Lebron playing in an Era with 1 legit center.
Lebron will never be better than jordan, this ? ? is stupid, need to stop talking about it... He still has a lot of proving to do before he can even pass kobe. At least 3 more rings. -
What does NBA titles/finals have to do with individual greatness, those are two different things.
NBA titles are a reflection of team accomplishments and timing.
Michael Jordan played in the 3rd biggest market in the country, why would he have to leave Chicago. It's easy to talk about staying with the Cavs when you don't have to live in ? ass Cleveland where free agents didn't want to come. I mean Jordan, Kobe,etc can chill in their cities because free agents want to play in Chicago and LA.
I doesn't matter if Wade has 1 more ring, the question is better player, not champion. Same ? for Kobe, MVP and statistics are a reflection of indvidual greatness, not rings.
When it's all said and done i bet you Lebron will be individually more accomplished, i'm not talking about rings either. I'm talking MVP's, points scored, etc.
As for rings i can see him winning 3-4 more rings, depending on if he stays with Miami because i don't see Wade being great 4-5 years from now.
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blackjack2012 wrote: »blackjack2012 wrote: »
It took lebron 9 yrs and a different team, Jordan took 7 yrs...let's keep things in perspective now.blackjack2012 wrote: »Yes, people need to shut the ? up with that ring argument and then conveniently dismiss Bill Russell's accomplishments. I think individually Lebron will win as many if not more mvps than MJ and break alot of scoring records, i don't see him winning 6 rings though but he will come close.
I hear what you sayin, but they also talked about Jordan being six for six champion and six finals mvps. I don't think lebron will have any scoring records maybe equal his reg. season mvps but that's it...remember he played in two finals and never scored over 24 points in those games and was swept out his frist appearance
Lebron actually made it to the finals...twice before the age of 26 and won his first at the age of 27. Jordan got eliminated by the Pistons three straight times in the ECF before he won his first chip at the age of 28. Lets keep things in perspective.
And this is a knock against Lebron how? You're essentially saying Bron was better at a younger age.
91 Bulls had Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant and Phil. Before these three arrived Jordan wasnt getting out of the ECF.
What? I said it took Jordan less years in the league and if I remember he didn't choke his first two tries
It took less years in the League because Jordan started in the league later. If you look at what each has achieved at equivalent ages.
Lebron at age 18 playing in the NBA. Jordan at age 18 Jordan was still playing in College
Lebron at age 19 was Rookie of the Year. Jordan won Rookie of the Year at age 21
Lebron's first triple double was at age 20. Jordan's first triple double was at age 22
Lebron's first triple double in the playoffs was at 21. Jordan's first triple double was at 26
Lebron at 23 was in the NBA Finals. Jordan at age 23 was getting swept by the Celtics (again)
Lebron at age 26 was again in the NBA finals. Jordan at age 26 was losing to the Pistons in the ECF
At age 27 Lebron is a 3 time MVP, Finals MVP, and World Champion. Jordan at age 28 was a 2 time MVP and won his first Finals MVP and championship.
I am NOT saying Bron is better than Mike or even will BE better than Mike (nobody knows for sure)....but to say he's not on pace to be the best ever is idiotic. -
UPTOWN CONNEXX wrote: »blackjack2012 wrote: »
It took lebron 9 yrs and a different team, Jordan took 7 yrs...let's keep things in perspective now.blackjack2012 wrote: »Yes, people need to shut the ? up with that ring argument and then conveniently dismiss Bill Russell's accomplishments. I think individually Lebron will win as many if not more mvps than MJ and break alot of scoring records, i don't see him winning 6 rings though but he will come close.
I hear what you sayin, but they also talked about Jordan being six for six champion and six finals mvps. I don't think lebron will have any scoring records maybe equal his reg. season mvps but that's it...remember he played in two finals and never scored over 24 points in those games and was swept out his frist appearance
Lebron actually made it to the finals...twice before the age of 26 and won his first at the age of 27. Jordan got eliminated by the Pistons three straight times in the ECF before he won his first chip at the age of 28. Lets keep things in perspective.
And this is a knock against Lebron how? You're essentially saying Bron was better at a younger age.
91 Bulls had Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant and Phil. Before these three arrived Jordon wasnt getting out of the ECF.
well rage .... each and every person you named came to the chicago bulls in 1987
meaning they were all there when "jordan wasnt getting out of the ECF"
before those three arrived, jordan was in his 3rd season
they were all there when the bulls got eliminated twice by detroit in the ECF. so actually those players/coach werent added and then jordan suddenly started winning
this was a while ago so maybe you need to google this stuff, get your facts straight, then come with your arguement
Yeah and?? Is Phil Jackson not the GOAT coach? Is Scottie Pippen not a 50 greatest all time NBA player? Is Horace Grant not better than any team mate Bron ever had on the Cavs? Who on those Cav's teams could even COME CLOSE to that? -
Even if he is better than Jordan. Folks in this generation won't acknowledge it. It may take years after LeBron retires.
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No, James can't.
I think the most damning thing between then is when people bring up how Jordan never lost in the finals. That's a powerful enough to derail that argument in itself.
Also, talent wise, James is a hell of an athlete but Jordan set the bar when it comes to skills. -
unspoken_respect wrote: »No, James can't.
I think the most damning thing between then is when people bring up how Jordan never lost in the finals. That's a powerful enough to derail that argument in itself.
Also, talent wise, James is a hell of an athlete but Jordan set the bar when it comes to skills.
That argument is dumb as ? though.
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blackjack2012 wrote: »blackjack2012 wrote: »
It took lebron 9 yrs and a different team, Jordan took 7 yrs...let's keep things in perspective now.blackjack2012 wrote: »Yes, people need to shut the ? up with that ring argument and then conveniently dismiss Bill Russell's accomplishments. I think individually Lebron will win as many if not more mvps than MJ and break alot of scoring records, i don't see him winning 6 rings though but he will come close.
I hear what you sayin, but they also talked about Jordan being six for six champion and six finals mvps. I don't think lebron will have any scoring records maybe equal his reg. season mvps but that's it...remember he played in two finals and never scored over 24 points in those games and was swept out his frist appearance
Lebron actually made it to the finals...twice before the age of 26 and won his first at the age of 27. Jordan got eliminated by the Pistons three straight times in the ECF before he won his first chip at the age of 28. Lets keep things in perspective.
And this is a knock against Lebron how? You're essentially saying Bron was better at a younger age.
91 Bulls had Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant and Phil. Before these three arrived Jordan wasnt getting out of the ECF.
What? I said it took Jordan less years in the league and if I remember he didn't choke his first two tries
It took less years in the League because Jordan started in the league later. If you look at what each has achieved at equivalent ages.
Lebron at age 18 playing in the NBA. Jordan at age 18 Jordan was still playing in College
Lebron at age 19 was Rookie of the Year. Jordan won Rookie of the Year at age 21
Lebron's first triple double was at age 20. Jordan's first triple double was at age 22
Lebron's first triple double in the playoffs was at 21. Jordan's first triple double was at 26
Lebron at 23 was in the NBA Finals. Jordan at age 23 was getting swept by the Celtics (again)
Lebron at age 26 was again in the NBA finals. Jordan at age 26 was losing to the Pistons in the ECF
At age 27 Lebron is a 3 time MVP, Finals MVP, and World Champion. Jordan at age 28 was a 2 time MVP and won his first Finals MVP and championship.
I am NOT saying Bron is better than Mike or even will BE better than Mike (nobody knows for sure)....but to say he's not on pace to be the best ever is idiotic.
I agree lebron is on pace to accomplish the same things mike did but this is a Terrible way to get a point across
When lebron was in his 3rd year in the nba mike was a junior at Nc.Compare what they accomplished by their 2nd,3rd,4th seasons etc not their ages -
I think ESPN should give Jordan/Bulls a 1 to 2 hour special to reminds everybody how good they were. There are a lot of great players without rings because of Jordan.
No diss to t/s but this shouldn't even be a question. I think the days of Jordans Bulls are so far gone that people forget how raw they were. It makes old heads sound like they are putting them on a pedestal when they are not. They were just that good. -
unspoken_respect wrote: »I think ESPN should give Jordan/Bulls a 1 to 2 hour special to reminds everybody how good they were. There are a lot of great players without rings because of Jordan.
No diss to t/s but this shouldn't even be a question. I think the days of Jordans Bulls are so far gone that people forget how raw they were. It makes old heads sound like they are putting them on a pedestal when they are not. They were just that good.
no they really shouldn't.. its been beatin to death brought to life and beatin to death again has nothing to do with people forgetting.. this is just what it is right now in terms of pop culture. -
Tommy bilfiger wrote: »blackjack2012 wrote: »blackjack2012 wrote: »
It took lebron 9 yrs and a different team, Jordan took 7 yrs...let's keep things in perspective now.blackjack2012 wrote: »Yes, people need to shut the ? up with that ring argument and then conveniently dismiss Bill Russell's accomplishments. I think individually Lebron will win as many if not more mvps than MJ and break alot of scoring records, i don't see him winning 6 rings though but he will come close.
I hear what you sayin, but they also talked about Jordan being six for six champion and six finals mvps. I don't think lebron will have any scoring records maybe equal his reg. season mvps but that's it...remember he played in two finals and never scored over 24 points in those games and was swept out his frist appearance
Lebron actually made it to the finals...twice before the age of 26 and won his first at the age of 27. Jordan got eliminated by the Pistons three straight times in the ECF before he won his first chip at the age of 28. Lets keep things in perspective.
And this is a knock against Lebron how? You're essentially saying Bron was better at a younger age.
91 Bulls had Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant and Phil. Before these three arrived Jordan wasnt getting out of the ECF.
What? I said it took Jordan less years in the league and if I remember he didn't choke his first two tries
It took less years in the League because Jordan started in the league later. If you look at what each has achieved at equivalent ages.
Lebron at age 18 playing in the NBA. Jordan at age 18 Jordan was still playing in College
Lebron at age 19 was Rookie of the Year. Jordan won Rookie of the Year at age 21
Lebron's first triple double was at age 20. Jordan's first triple double was at age 22
Lebron's first triple double in the playoffs was at 21. Jordan's first triple double was at 26
Lebron at 23 was in the NBA Finals. Jordan at age 23 was getting swept by the Celtics (again)
Lebron at age 26 was again in the NBA finals. Jordan at age 26 was losing to the Pistons in the ECF
At age 27 Lebron is a 3 time MVP, Finals MVP, and World Champion. Jordan at age 28 was a 2 time MVP and won his first Finals MVP and championship.
I am NOT saying Bron is better than Mike or even will BE better than Mike (nobody knows for sure)....but to say he's not on pace to be the best ever is idiotic.
I agree lebron is on pace to accomplish the same things mike did but this is a Terrible way to get a point across
When lebron was in his 3rd year in the nba mike was a junior at Nc.Compare what they accomplished by their 2nd,3rd,4th seasons etc not their ages
But we are talking about being on PACE...not what their respective accomplishments were individually. There is no limit as to how many years someone can play in the NBA. If anything it shows that Lebron was playing at a higher level than Jordan at the same age. Again Bron could regress in two years and this becomes a moot point. But if you look at the progression of two individuals A and B. If A is playing at a higher level and accomplishing more than B at the same age (or younger) it wouldnt be unreasonable to assume that he is on pace to be a better player than B. -
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kobe got carried to 3 rings. what u talmbout?
If Bron only wins 1 more ring and 1 more finals mvp he should EASILY surpass kobe
Shut the ? up -
unspoken_respect wrote: »No, James can't.
I think the most damning thing between then is when people bring up how Jordan never lost in the finals. That's a powerful enough to derail that argument in itself.
Also, talent wise, James is a hell of an athlete but Jordan set the bar when it comes to skills.
That argument is dumb as ? though.
how? -
unspoken_respect wrote: »No, James can't.
I think the most damning thing between then is when people bring up how Jordan never lost in the finals. That's a powerful enough to derail that argument in itself.
Also, talent wise, James is a hell of an athlete but Jordan set the bar when it comes to skills.
That argument is dumb as ? though.
Explain -
I'll wait, take your time. Everyone consigning him, you can answer it too.unspoken_respect wrote: »unspoken_respect wrote: »No, James can't.
I think the most damning thing between then is when people bring up how Jordan never lost in the finals. That's a powerful enough to derail that argument in itself.
Also, talent wise, James is a hell of an athlete but Jordan set the bar when it comes to skills.
That argument is dumb as ? though.
Explain -
Ill play.. because you dont take into account the times one has lost before they got there...for starters.. and take into accont the strength/ depth of the team.. your circumstances who you were surrounded with.. Jordan does go undefeated the bulls do.
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Jordan didn't win a title or make the Finals until his 7th year, therefore he was losing playoff series.
? will condemn a person more for losing in the Finals than losing before the Finals, which makes no sense at all.
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I can understand that but how can people just brush aside his failures like they mean nothing?
The better team won 2 years ago, not the most talented. Once again, he made it to the big show and was shook.
Now back track to the year he made it with the Cavs. Put some talent around him. Who is to say he wouldn't have disappeared again?
Like I said, he had the talent with the Heat and still lost. The guy we saw this year in the finals, that's the first time we've seen him. He didn't exist with the Cavs.
Jordan was just as lethal in his first as he was in his last. -
Lebron wont be as good as mj and this has nothing to do with rings.. winning rings doesnt all the sudden make you a better player never has and never will.. being a better player makes you a better player and that comes from your attributes and the application of those attributes not a batch of stats.. and not 1000000 follower or likes on a facebook or a loud opinion of talking heads
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if he can win as many championships as jordan, and carry his team and his stats are better than jordans.. then why not... Next5-8 years will say it all. Enjoy the ride. Right nowtho.. ? no.
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unspoken_respect wrote: »I can understand that but how can people just brush aside his failures like they mean nothing?
The better team won 2 years ago, not the most talented. Once again, he made it to the big show and was shook.
Now back track to the year he made it with the Cavs. Put some talent around him. Who is to say he wouldn't have disappeared again?
Like I said, he had the talent with the Heat and still lost. The guy we saw this year in the finals, that's the first time we've seen him. He didn't exist with the Cavs.
Jordan was just as lethal in his first as he was in his last.
So you can just brush away Jordan getting swept by the Celtics and the Pistons?? While Lebron was losing in the Finals...Jordan was as you put it "shook" in the ECF. According to your logic Jordan "disappeared" earlier in the playoffs than Bron did. According to your logic the first time we saw lethal Jordan only after he was "shook" of the Pistons or "disappeared" vs the Celtics....IN THE Eastern conference playoff rounds.
It makes 0 sense. -
unspoken_respect wrote: »I can understand that but how can people just brush aside his failures like they mean nothing?
The better team won 2 years ago, not the most talented. Once again, he made it to the big show and was shook.
Now back track to the year he made it with the Cavs. Put some talent around him. Who is to say he wouldn't have disappeared again?
Like I said, he had the talent with the Heat and still lost. The guy we saw this year in the finals, that's the first time we've seen him. He didn't exist with the Cavs.
Jordan was just as lethal in his first as he was in his last.
So you can just brush away Jordan getting swept by the Celtics and the Pistons?? While Lebron was losing in the Finals...Jordan was as you put it "shook" in the ECF. According to your logic Jordan "disappeared" earlier in the playoffs than Bron did. According to your logic the first time we saw lethal Jordan only after he was "shook" of the Pistons or "disappeared" vs the Celtics....IN THE Eastern conference playoff rounds.
It makes 0 sense.
Lmao come on man.I'm a lebron fan but duke froze the fucc up in the '11 finals.In 07 he was young and faced a superior,more experienced, better coached 3x championship team,cavs didn't stand a chance
Same thing happened to jordan the pistons and celtics were better TEAMS.Jordan never froze up like lebron(8 points in a finals game,2 points in a 4th quarter) he was droppin 50-60 points on them ? the bulls teams were trash
I never understood how people hold that against jordan you expected an 8th seed to beat a celtics squad that been to 3 finals already?
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Honestly i hate any comparison with a player that has to deal with Jordan , it almost seems like it Devalues the other player almost and it seems like we don't truely respect their greatness for who they are.
Lebron can go out and post 24 points , 8 assist and 9 Rebounds in a game and barely win and all folks will say is "Yea but Jordan wouldnt have even been in that situation , Jordan would have blown them out"
same goes for Kobe , yea Kobe has a lot of Jordan Mannerisms on the court but it's like no matter what he does or what Lebron does the first thing anyone wants to say "But Jordan......" ...Jordan didn't invent basketball , he wasn't the first N*gga to play it , do i think he is the best? yes....and this is coming from someone who didn't like Jordan i just wasn't really a fan of his like that but i respected his game , But any n*gga that has been after Jordan that is any good people hold to his standard is just dumb as ? in my opinion it's almost as if people think "Welp he wasn't as good as Jordan he wasn't that damn nice" ....As good as Lebron is people really don't appreciate that guy for what he is ...this ? is 6'8 250+ moving like a ? guard out there doing what he wants.
i just get fed up with the Media and how other people fall for the bait and we don't even enjoy the performances that are happening right now. -
Nah, Michael Jordan is made out to be some type of ? when it comes to basketball but if you really look at it this era its probably more difficult to win then it was in jordan era of 1 or 2 superstar per team. Jordan didn't win when the Lakers and Celtics had those star studded teams not until Bird/Magic were almost out of the league were the Bulls winning championships. Also the league is fundmentally different you could be a lottery team and 8th seed in the playoffs. Jordan first 3 seasons in the the league the bulls were a losing team but were still in the playoffs. Lebron made the cavs a winning team by his second season and took them to finals in his fourth. He made the cavs team a contender but at the same time that hurt the team because they couldn't build any more in the draft . Where as the bulls were in the playoffs and were still able to pick in the lottery . Think about that for a second if lebron could have at least one more player that was good to great in those cleveland days how different things would be. So honestly you can't compare players from one era from another. All I know is lebron is a great player
