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perspective@100
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Does your education make you "better", than a poorly educated individual?
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Higher education usually gives people an advantage economically but as a person, no it doesn't make one better, of course not
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Being better off economically puts you in a higher class. From my experience people in higher classes think they are better than people in lower classes. Do you ever personally feel guilt when you see a ? on the street? I'm not trying to attack you personally by the way just looking for some insight.
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It may not always be the case, but I do agree there is a prejudice that some people take on when it comes to economic (or to stay on topic...academic) status. There is a false perception that if they are smarter or richer that they are entitled to whatever they want and can do whatever they want...even if it compromises their morals and values.
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@alissowack
So by what you are saying the feeling or false perception of entitlement from being smart or rich causes immoral action and less principled values?
Is this why the tree of Knowledge in the bible is percieved as evil?
How is it that our society allows the wealthy and so called smarter individuals to lead us when by default they are less moral then an uneducated/poor individual?
The prejudice you speak of, is that not blatant discrimination? -
The uneducated and poor are no different. We must question their actions as well. Some who are uneducated and poor think they are entitled to have the best things in life even at the expense of taking something they really don't deserve to have.
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Imo, the tree of knowledge is representative of our conscience mind(or rather the development of). However without wisdom and understanding preceding that knowledge we suffer. Its the knowledge of right and wrong, but without wisdom and understanding of whats right and wrong in the first place we are unable to make the right choice the first time and are forced to learn through our mistakes after gathering some wisdom and understanding.perspective@100 wrote: »Is this why the tree of Knowledge in the bible is percieved as evil?
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alissowack wrote: »The uneducated and poor are no different. We must question their actions as well. Some who are uneducated and poor think they are entitled to have the best things in life even at the expense of taking something they really don't deserve to have.
From the bold it would seem that everyone feels entitled in some way or the other. If even through many years of education our collective morality never reaches a principled level then it only seems like a tool used to trick the less fortunate.
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BiblicalAtheist wrote: »
Imo, the tree of knowledge is representative of our conscience mind(or rather the development of). However without wisdom and understanding preceding that knowledge we suffer. Its the knowledge of right and wrong, but without wisdom and understanding of whats right and wrong in the first place we are unable to make the right choice the first time and are forced to learn through our mistakes after gathering some wisdom and understanding.perspective@100 wrote: »Is this why the tree of Knowledge in the bible is percieved as evil?
So would you say the way to gather wisdom and understanding would be through scientific trials and data collection? Seems to me the only way we are learning these days is through science and technology. What role does religion play in our education? If the bible has been written from the stand point of past experience, and we have learned not to make those similar mistakes here in the present, what kind of guide can it be for our future?
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Science has definatly helped with our understanding of the world. But even in that route, we often make the mistake first, gather the understanding after. I was meaning more the wisdom and understanding that comes from quiet reflection after experiences(everything is an experience).perspective@100 wrote: »So would you say the way to gather wisdom and understanding would be through scientific trials and data collection?
Religion or rather religious books appear to be more the psychology books of the past. They could be used to help us understand how the human mind was, and where it is going(possibly). But as far as a functional organized part of our society where people are trying to get back to the good ol biblical days is causing and causes a psychosis of sorts imo.What role does religion play in our education?
I think it should only be a personal guide to understanding your own mind.If the bible has been written from the stand point of past experience, and we have learned not to make those similar mistakes here in the present, what kind of guide can it be for our future? -
@BiblicalAtheist,
Not to go far off topic, but I like your interpretation of the tree of knowledge. I have another bible story I would like to hear your thoughts on.
Feel free to correct me as I don't practice reading the bible. I don't really remember names but its the story of a man taking his child to the mountain top to sacrifice him because the lord told him to do so. I don't believe he had to go through with it and I cant fully remember the story, but I do remember the feeling it gave me when I was young. Frankly I thought it was some BS. Does that ring a bell for you or do I need to go buy a bible?
More so on topic. People who interpret the bible professionally, priest, pastors, rabbi's etc... Are they using their wisdom to manipulate the masses or truly guide? Do they really grasp an understanding of what is right or wrong or are they pushing their own subliminal agenda?
Satan was cast from heaven never to return and stated its better to rule in hell than to serve in heaven. Its kind of a paradox when you apply that analogy to everyday life. You see any deeper meaning to that particular statement? -
Feel free to correct me as I don't practice reading the bible. I don't really remember names but its the story of a man taking his child to the mountain top to sacrifice him because the lord told him to do so. I don't believe he had to go through with it and I cant fully remember the story, but I do remember the feeling it gave me when I was young. Frankly I thought it was some BS. Does that ring a bell for you or do I need to go buy a bible?
Yes Abraham and his son. Humans do not like to give up things easily. Be it for good rewards or bad punishments. If ? asked, BA, what would you give up to obtain the kingdom of heaven? I would say anything. But here I am keeping all my things and loved ones, because those things, for now are more important than a heaven(heaven and hell being states of mind). And then I think to myself, if not now, then when? I won't even give up my attachment to a coffee and rid myself of the burden of being 'cranky'(mind in hell) if I didn't get my morning coffee. Did a man literally go to sacrifice his son? No, its just an extreme example of our reluctance or vice versa to obtain peace in mind.More so on topic. People who interpret the bible professionally, priest, pastors, rabbi's etc... Are they using their wisdom to manipulate the masses or truly guide?
Its like psychologists. The bests one are the ones who use the material they have learned, turn inward and decipher their own minds. A psychologist who merely regurgitates what he has learned really has a basic understanding of the human mind. So I find it is with a number of religious leaders, they lack the understanding and wisdom because they didn't turn inward and so misguide unknowingly, sometimes knowingly. I find if literal interpretations of the bible are used there is a good deal of room for fear to arise, which also goes along with the psychosis issue. With that fear and psychosis the opportunity to manipulate is high and most definitely has happened and still does happen.Do they really grasp an understanding of what is right or wrong or are they pushing their own subliminal agenda?
I think there is an agenda to keep the literal interpretations of the bible alive. It serves the church and society a purpose still. As I said humans do not give up things easily, I think even if the church said tomorrow that they have been interpreting the bible incorrectly, its more metaphoric than literal, a large number of people would revolt, maybe even violently towards the church. If you look at some of the books left out of the bible, they leave you with the impression its a personal journey, and only you can ultimately save yourself, this doesn't help the church at all however.Satan was cast from heaven never to return and stated its better to rule in hell than to serve in heaven. Its kind of a paradox when you apply that analogy to everyday life. You see any deeper meaning to that particular statement?
Imo satan represents our ego. Satan not being a being, but a way. It is very adversarial in nature. As opposed to christ(for the greater good) in contrast to satan/ego which is for the self. Christ(as a concept not a person) was willing to die if it meant saving humanity, ego would rather sacrifice the world to save itself, and does so on a daily basis. So for 'satan' to say it is better to reign in hell than serve in heaven makes sense because ego does not like to submit. -
perspective@100 wrote: »Being better off economically puts you in a higher class. From my experience people in higher classes think they are better than people in lower classes. Do you ever personally feel guilt when you see a ? on the street? I'm not trying to attack you personally by the way just looking for some insight.
Oh I don't take anything as a personal attack on here (unless it's an obvious attack), I just look at it as one asking a question. From my experience, some people in higher classes do consider those of lower class lazier and less capable, but I would hope most aren't like that. I dated a pathologist when I was doing security years ago, and I would hope she didn't look down on me, and the same for her friends and family, who were all very educated and making very good money. She wanted to marry me and her family liked me, so I would hope most higher educated people are like her and her fam......
As far as me feeling guilt when I see a homeless person, no, why should I feel guilt? It's not like I made that person homeless, HOWEVER, I do feel sympathy for any homeless person I see. Anyone can become homeless, all it takes is one serious illness and one single catastrophe. Even one with a bunch of money can lose it, ask Sylvester from that 70s disco band. He was a millionaire and now lives a mini van. -
I see the convo has somehow turned toward the Bible and in my personal opinion, very little can be learned from such a book. Perhaps in more ancient days it held valuable lessons, but considering the Bible supports slavery, discrimination, genocide, and the killing of innocent children in so many passages, I don't think we should hold the Bible as a book to learn from. The Bible supports negativity and evil in my opinion, although there are some positive sides to it.....just like ? had some positives to him as well.
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perspective@100 wrote: »alissowack wrote: »The uneducated and poor are no different. We must question their actions as well. Some who are uneducated and poor think they are entitled to have the best things in life even at the expense of taking something they really don't deserve to have.
From the bold it would seem that everyone feels entitled in some way or the other. If even through many years of education our collective morality never reaches a principled level then it only seems like a tool used to trick the less fortunate.
It's one thing to know our morals...and another to have a respect for them. -
Thanks for the responses everyone. Gives me a better understanding of things regarding our society.
@ BiblicalAtheist, I may give a second read to the bible now that I am an adult.
@ Kingblaze84 glad to hear there are still respectable people around. I've had my own situations with homeless people that left a bitter taste in my mouth. Not toward them but to the factors that lead to them being homeless.
@alissowack I think its a shame that our own predisposition is what ultimately influences our morality regardless of the education we receive at this point. I guess not even education can cure a sick mind...
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perspective@100 wrote: »Thanks for the responses everyone. Gives me a better understanding of things regarding our society.
@ BiblicalAtheist, I may give a second read to the bible now that I am an adult.
@ Kingblaze84 glad to hear there are still respectable people around. I've had my own situations with homeless people that left a bitter taste in my mouth. Not toward them but to the factors that lead to them being homeless.
@alissowack I think its a shame that our own predisposition is what ultimately influences our morality regardless of the education we receive at this point. I guess not even education can cure a sick mind...
Yeah I do feel bad when it comes to factors leading to someone living on the streets. There should be more money for shelters and a social safety net here, less for wars and the prison industrial complex. I used to think the homeless were just lazy growing up but around 17, I realized some of my very intelligent and hard working friends were at one point homeless. Bad luck and a bad economy can affect anyone, no matter one's education or family background. -
Then I would recommend reading it as a history book more than anything.perspective@100 wrote: »@ BiblicalAtheist, I may give a second read to the bible now that I am an adult.
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perspective@100 wrote: »Does your education make you "better", than a poorly educated individual?
Not at all. It opens up more opportunity and more connections to better opportunities but it doesn't make one person inherently "better" than another. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »Higher education usually gives people an advantage economically but as a person, no it doesn't make one better, of course notperspective@100 wrote: »Does your education make you "better", than a poorly educated individual?
Not at all. It opens up more opportunity and more connections to better opportunities but it doesn't make one person inherently "better" than another.
^^^ yeah, these.
I'm just going to go ahead and assume how exactly we're defining "education" and "better." Imo, education can help an individual become a "better" person, but it doesn't autmoatically make that individual a better person. Some educated people use their education to do "evil" things. Some "uneducated" people are street-smart, sensible (i.e. they have common sense), etc, and are genuinely "good" people.
I still think that education is one of the most important assets to have in life though.
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what do you mean by "better"
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More.education doesn't make one better than anyone... just better off
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Value is subjective.
Initially i'd say those who contribute more to society are more valuable humans but then whether one considers being a doctor more valuable than being a rocket scientist comes down to an issue of personal perspective.
We could try to judge people on character but once again personal preference dictates what is considered greater.
Many people who manage to pursue high levels of education tend to be able to do so only because they have been able to enjoy many priveleges and advantages that others do not. To say someone is more valuable because they lucked out in the genetic lottery and managed to be born into a well off nuclear family sounds dumb though. Success via accident of birth is not really much of an achievement. The person who grinded and went from
Bottom to top is the truly more valuable person.
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No... It just helps you get the type of job you want to get. People can not go to college and get blue collar jobs that earn a wage that is just as fair as a college educated job.
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JDSTAYWITIT. wrote: »what do you mean by "better"
I'll give you some examples...
Lets say I have a Bacheleor of Science and you have a GED, Am I better than you?
I have a Masters in Business and you dropped out of junior high, Am I better than you?
My high school was a top private school and you went to a ? hole public school, Am I better?
I went to MIT or Harvard, you went to a community college, am I better?
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I think he's asking: better morally? better ethically? better how?
