Muhammad Ali 1964-1967 Greatest Boxer and Heavyweight of All Times (Who can beat 64-67 Ali)
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Shizlansky wrote: »Money can't beat no heavyweights.
Pound for pound he's the most polish boxer ever.
lol that ? lucky he never had to fight a sweet pea -
1964-1967 Muhammad Ali is the Greatest Boxer and Heavyweight of All TimesTyson age 18-21 vs. ali '64-'67 a good debate tho - they both thought the other would win...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3_i3mS8r4E
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NothingButTheTruth wrote: »Foreman >>>... there's a reason why Ali had to do that little rope a dope ? . He couldn't box with dude head up so he had to use a "strategy."
P.S. We all saw what happened to Frazier when he tried to box head up with Foreman. Dun got KO'd in the 2nd round LOL.
Foreman made that ? do the river dance
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1964-1967 Muhammad Ali is not the Greatest Boxer and Heavyweight of All TimesBrown Bomber>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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1964-1967 Muhammad Ali is not the Greatest Boxer and Heavyweight of All TimesAll I'm going to say is, there's a reason why Ali didn't want that rematch with Foreman. That wackass rope a dope ? wasn't going to work twice. Ali knew what he was doing.
Also, by beating Foreman the first time through use of wack tactics only proves that Ali was a smarter fighter not a better fighter. Y'all over here catching feelings because y'all fell in love with what Ali was inside AND OUTSIDE of the ring. I'm strictly talking boxing skills. Foreman>>>> -
1964-1967 Muhammad Ali is the Greatest Boxer and Heavyweight of All Timesali all the way. from that 36 and g to that 34 and g. ? we click clack.
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1964-1967 Muhammad Ali is not the Greatest Boxer and Heavyweight of All TimesSugar Ray Robinson.
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1964-1967 Muhammad Ali is not the Greatest Boxer and Heavyweight of All TimesLet me be more specific, I think Ray Robinson is the best boxer of all time. But Ali is best heavyweight though
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Foreman prolly could've punched through a brick wall....most powerful jab in boxing
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most people...
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1964-1967 Muhammad Ali is the Greatest Boxer and Heavyweight of All Timesdont know ? .....
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about boxing
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there's a special place in hell for don king...
right next to bob arum....
them ? the devil..
only reason king wanted mike away from the d'amato camp was to have more 24/7 access to him....
they kept mike in check, and on an allowance, curfew, low tolerance for fuckery..all that...
they kept the beast at bay, and allowed him to be the best fighter he could possibly be..
king, said ? that, and let him self destruct, just to make him more of a celebrity..
I heard that don king bought tyson a house right next to his
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the most frustrating argument in the ali/tyson debate is when you try to break down the importance of having the perfect corner for a fighter, and how much weight that corner holds.....
mike's corner up until he was 21 was the absolute best and the perfect corner for his entire career.....at 21.. could mike have beaten the GOAT ali???.....it's very debatable....
but the biggest what if in boxing is this....
what if mike's corner that started him in boxing had stayed with him throughout his career??
i don't think your casual fan grasps how much of an immediate difference you see in mikes entire ring demeanor once the corner was fired after the spinks fight.....he just wasn't the same fighter....
all he was after that fight was a brawler....the technician was gone, the fundamentals gone, the conditioning gone, the combos, gone, the speed diminishing, the power underutilized,...his patience, execution, discipline, all gone...everything that made mike..mike...left...
simply because he had a bunch of people around him who had no idea how to to train, nutture, prepaper im or harness and build off his natural talent.. not to mention his fragile mindset...
and don king basically gave him access to all his money whenever he wanted it....
you give any 21year old the keys to the world.. he gonna go ham....
had mike stayed with kevin rooney n them throughout his 20's......
the argument of tyson/ali woulda been completely different,.....
cuz i to this day honestly believe, a rooney trained tyson was the closet thing to an invincible warrior boxing has ever seen..
i just looked at this from his wiki, cuz i was looking for the year rooney left the camp and i saw this...Kevin Rooney was the trainer of world heavyweight champion Mike Tyson from the start of his professional career in 1985, up until Tyson's bout with Michael Spinks in 1988. During the period when Rooney was Tyson's trainer, Tyson had a record of 35 fights, 35 wins (31 wins by KO). Rooney was then fired at the urging of Don King, who had successfully urged Tyson to break all ties with the D'Amato stable. Tyson's mobility skills in the boxing ring noticeably declined after Rooney's firing and Tyson suffered his first loss in a professional fight just 18 months after Rooney's departure.
Rooney was the second closest trainer to young Mike Tyson, followed by Teddy Atlas, and is most familiar with ? D'Amato's famed "Peek-a-Boo" boxing style. Rooney has continued to train fighters, working most notably with Vinny Paz who after hooking up with Rooney, won the 154 pound title.
i swear...? like this breaks a ? heart.. nh
damn tyson could have been top 10 doa -
1964-1967 Muhammad Ali is the Greatest Boxer and Heavyweight of All TimesThe user and all related content has been deleted.
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1964-1967 Muhammad Ali is not the Greatest Boxer and Heavyweight of All Timestyson was the most humble champ in the world imo only because he thinks the decline as he got older was all his fault...as a man you take responsibility for your actions...so mike not blaming don...but ? that..
I'M BLAMING DON!!
all the greats recognize that tyson at 21 was not to be ? with.......
besides ali..only great i see giving tyson a run is fraizer.....
tyson murders foreman's body imo...way too much speed......way too much -
1964-1967 Muhammad Ali is the Greatest Boxer and Heavyweight of All Timesdont forget jack johnson. he was a beast too. jack, ali, and mike. man thats a deadly combination.
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Prime Ali before the exile that beat Liston and Cleveland Williams Id favor over all heavys.... handspeed of a welter/middle weight but had the power to hurt u with defense and footspeed.... the Ali that banged and faught flatfooted with the rope a dope could lose to Holmes,Tyson in the 80s, and Joe Louis Bowe, Evander, and maybe Lewis but that is it
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1964-1967 Muhammad Ali is not the Greatest Boxer and Heavyweight of All TimesJoe Louis
Rocky Marciano
Ezzard Charles -
1964-1967 Muhammad Ali is the Greatest Boxer and Heavyweight of All TimesCashmoneyDux wrote: »Brown Bomber>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Brown Bomber is a great, have power in both hands and can knock you out at any given moment from the 1st to 15 round his power is the same at any time he will knock your ass out, the Ali that fought Foreman and Smoking Joe i say yes Prime Joe Louis will win 1 out of 3 against Ali but 64-67 Ali, Joe Lewis is to slow footed Ali would tag him at will and have Joe face looking ? up by the 5 round, But those damn quick hands and unheard of power in both hand I put it like this if Joe Louis tagged Ali chin any version of Ali flush, Ali aint getting up. Tyson, Foreman power aint go ? on the Brown Bomber -
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1964-1967 Muhammad Ali is the Greatest Boxer and Heavyweight of All Timesdouble post
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1964-1967 Muhammad Ali is the Greatest Boxer and Heavyweight of All TimesJack Johnson on Joe Louis
"That Joe has a lot to learn," Johnson had said. Louis, he claimed, was a "mechanical fighter" who didn't know how to think in the ring, a "clumsy greenhorn" with an "off-balance stance." And Johnson had continually pointed out the flaw that had proved to be Louis's undoing. " Louis holds his left too low," Johnson had warned before the Schmeling fight, "and the first fellow who makes him step back and then throws a right at his chin will knock him out." -
1964-1967 Muhammad Ali is the Greatest Boxer and Heavyweight of All TimesJoe Louis said of Ali in his autobiography (Louis p 260), “Ali’s a great fighter, (but) he made too many mistakes, his hands are down a lot, and he takes too many punches to the body. I know what I’m talking about.”
Joe Louis once described how he would have fought Ali, The Ring, Feb. 1967:
“The kid has speed and there’s no one around to outbox him, and the opponent who tries is in his grave. Especially in the middle if the ring. I’d see to it that Clay didn’t stay in ring center. No. He’d be hit into those ropes as near a corner as I could get him. If he stayed on the ropes he would get hurt. Sooner or later he’d try to bounce off, when he did he would get hurt more. I’d press him, cut down his speed, and bang him around the ribs. I’d punish the body. “? the body and the head will die”, Chappie use to tell me. It figures. Sooner or later he’d forget about that face of his and he would start dropping that left hand like he did against Mildenberger and Chuvalo. Those fellows got their openings by accident, and fouled it up. I would work for it and wouldn’t reckon to miss when it arrived. Cassius Clay is a nice boy and a smart fighter. But I am sure Joe Louis would have licked him.” -
1964-1967 Muhammad Ali is the Greatest Boxer and Heavyweight of All TimesMY 2ND FIGHTER THAT HAVE A CHANCE TO BEAT 64-67 ALI is...........
JACK JOHNSON
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSFnFS1snmk
One of the greatest Heavyweights of All Time's (The Slow footage and Camera work does not capture the speed and the defense art of Jack Johnson) A Master Technician, The Greatest Heavyweight Defensive Boxer ever and one of the greatest defensive boxer. The Science in Sweet Science, A Nasty Inside Boxer with crushing Power with BRUTE UNMATCHED STRENGTH
Those Hall of Fame Great Boxing Writers who seen Johnson and ALI said Johnson one of the few that can beat 64-67 Ali..... Let their words speak for themselves.
Johnson was like a bigger, stronger and more technically sound version of Roy Jones Jr, but with greater defensive capability. Johnson, like Jones was exceptionally fast, able to leap in with quick counters, was a strong puncher, and was a master feinter. His opponents were weary of his speed and power and he was able to dominate them without taking great risks. Unlike Jones, Johnson did not throw wide looping punches that exposed himself to counters, but instead held his hands properly and threw lightning quick straight punches outside and uppercuts safely from the inside.
John Durant wrote in The Heavyweight Champions of Johnson, “He was a genius in the ring. He was a flawless boxer with an almost perfect defense, and he could hit hard with either hand. A superb counter puncher, he was never off balance, always in position to hit, and he was a master of the art of feinting."
The Ring Magazine, in an article, The 50 greatest heavyweights of all time (1998 Holiday Issue p 32), said that Johnson was “years ahead of his time stylistically, he revolutionized boxing footwork, defense, and the concept of ring generalship.”
Consider that Nat Fleischer, the founder of Ring Magazine, who saw Johnson fight and those up to the Ali era, said, in his book Black Dynamite Vol 4., p. 6), “Jack Johnson boxed on his toes, could block from most any angle, was lightning fast on his feet, could feint an opponent into knots…he possessed everything a champion could hope for punch, speed, brains, cleverness, boxing ability and sharp-shooting.”
Fleischer also reported in 1958, that Johnson’s “mastery of ring science, his ability to block, counter, and feint, are still unexcelled.”
Jack Johnson is widely regarded as the greatest defensive heavyweight of all time. In recent years some revisionists have tried to downplay Johnson’s defensive capabilities, which is an injustice to both the man and those who saw him fight. The key to understanding the defensive mastery of men like Johnson, Joe Gans, and George Dixon comes in their ability to block an opponent's leads. That is where the old masters like Johnson truly shined. You have to jab to get inside and to set up your punches and they could block and pick off an opponent's jabs and counter. Trainer Eddie Futch said, that Ken Norton gave Ali 3 very tough fights because he knew how to block a jab with an open glove and counter-jab.
An interesting comparison can be made by looking at two different boxing training manuals one published in 2000 and the other published in 1943 (Naval Aviation Training Manual 1st edition). The old National Police Gazette’s often had famous boxers demonstrate their techniques. Some of these types of techniques can be seen in the Naval Aviator boxing manual but are absent from the modern instruction book. The modern manual is not at all bad showing parries, covering, and ducking, slipping, as well as shoulder and forearm blocks. The older book however also explains stopping (or pinning/trapping), cuffing, weaving, shifting (quick shift, drop shift, rear shift), folding, and open glove blocking –catching the opponent’s leads in the butt of the glove. The older masters had a greater variety of defensive techniques at their disposal than what is being taught in most gyms today.
It is noteworthy that although Johnson fought often and with only 5 ounce gloves, his defensive skills kept his face largely unmarked. This demonstrates his effectiveness as a defensive fighter.
Johnson also used some unique tactics in the ring. Mike Aoki wrote that Johnson liked to “shoot a punch at a foe’s bicep while the fellow began to launch a haymaker. This not only kept the blow from arriving, but it gradually numbed or paralyzed the arm.”
Jack Dempsey said of Johnson, “He was the greatest catcher of punches that ever lived (glove blocker). And he could fight all night. He was a combination of Jim Corbett and Louis. I’m glad I didn’t have to fight him.”
Trevor Wignall agrees saying, "He could box as well as fight. He was a tremendously hard hitter, while, for a man his size, he was amazingly swift on his feet."
BOXING WRITER WHO SEEN JACK JOHNSON and ALI
Charley Rose who saw both Johnson and Ali fight said, (July 1966 Ring), "Johnson would have caught Clay's jabs like Willie Mays catches a baseball." Ali’s lack of properly placed parrying hand to block a jab (he held his right hand out to the side when he jabbed) would allow Johnson to counter Ali's jab. Johnson’s superior defense and technical superiority would offset some of Ali’s natural gifts of speed, and quick reflexes. When Ali made a mistake Johnson had the hand speed to exploit it with a quick counter. Observors such as Archie Moore and Eddie Futch also picked Johnson in a dream fight against Ali. It would be a very interesting fight.
and......
Nat Fleischer rated Johnson as the greatest heavyweight up to the time of his death in 1972. He picked Johnson in a dream fight over Joe Louis. The reason is given in 50 Years at Ringside pp 80-81. Fleischer quotes Johnson as saying that Louis was "always off balance" and to beat a counter-puncher like Schmeling he had to "change his stance." Johnson said a "clever sharp shooter" with a good "right hand" could beat Louis. And that is precisely what happened in the first Schmeling fight. It was because of Johnson's prediction that Nat always thought that Johnson could beat Louis.
Johnson could also give Muhammad Ali a lot of trouble in a tactical boxing match. Johnson in his 1902 “colored heavyweight championship” match against Denver Ed Martin easily defeated a man who was said to have “the best footwork in the business.” In the first ten rounds they boxed with caution, but in the 11th round Johnson exploded with a right hand to the neck that dropped Martin. He went down four more times in the 11th round. Martin had a pretty good chin and his legs allowed him to survive the distance but Johnson won the 20 round decision and the title. The ease with Johnson could defeat a man with good footwork and a good chin demonstrates he could give Ali a mass of technical problems to solve.
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