Can We All Agree That There Is Fundamentally Little Difference Between Republicans and Democrats?

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  • Plutarch
    Plutarch Members Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    jono wrote: »
    That's real ? . The republic form of government isn't working because its easier to corrupt one than one hundred. Take an issue like the Keystone pipeline for instance, where the people of the state don't get a choice, their "representative" does and whatever (s)he says will effect the lives of thousands, possibly millions. These are the people who will have to live with the inevitable leaks and being displaced.

    Whether our system isn’t working because it’s our fault or the system’s fault is still unknown to me. But if your state representative doesn’t represent your state well, then isn’t it the state’s fault for voting him in office in the first place? And surely when his term comes up again, he won’t be re-elected. And then another ? whom the state will vote in will take his place. And this is essentially my problem. That we bounce back between these ? when we should look elsewhere and/or try to run ourselves.

    Imo I think that the biggest problem about the Keystone pipeline issue was that there was pressure that the federal government would ultimately make the decision. But that violates the 10th Amendment. A state should generally decide on matters that involve it. And if the senators or governor vote against the people whom they represent, then they commit political suicide. If they vote for what they clearly campaigned on, and it’s against what the people want, then the people shouldn’t have voted them in office. And that’s why I think that single-issue voting is dangerous. If I vote for a governor just because I like that he is pro-gun rights, then I deserve to get ? on if he gets a pro-life state law passed if I’m pro-choice. We have to take careful responsibility on who we support and vote for.
    jono wrote: »
    At least in a system of democracy they have a direct opportunity to change the situation, even if they lose. Now the situation is out of their hands and kicking the guy out of office isn't likely nor does it change the eventual damage.

    Yeah, mostly agreed. It’s an unfortunate situation that needs to change. But I’m still hesitant on blaming republicanism and seeing democracy as the solution.
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  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
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    Plutarch wrote: »
    Yeah, I and millions of others are experiencing the same problem. The system seems to not be working well. I’m still not sure whether the solution is mass activism and education or reform. But I’m not opting out just yet.
    right, but this ALSO means that until there's a solution i can sit back on my angry, angry principles. CHECKMATE
    Plutarch wrote: »
    Ok, few non-mainstream politicians (you vote for third party candidates but won’t vote for nonmainstream Republican and Democrat candidates who are similar?) are truly different and actually good for the nation.
    now, i've voted for third-party candidates and non-mainstream Republicans and Democrats for years now. doesn't seem to be doing a lot. although from this point out i will not ever vote for a Democrat for an office in this state again.
    Plutarch wrote: »
    But I’m saying voting (and supporting) the ones who aren’t the ? . But ok, I can understand what you’re saying about your single-voting. I honestly believe (and know) that there are politicians (regardless of how few of them there are) who are genuine when it comes to helping the nation.
    yeah, i don't believe that there are. make a list for me so i can consider voting for them when the time comes.
    Plutarch wrote: »
    Well damn.
    this is how janklow lives his life
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  • Big James
    Big James Members Posts: 345 ✭✭✭✭
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    The illusion of choice.
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  • Plutarch
    Plutarch Members Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Some guy told me that Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. supported gun control, so I did some research, and it seems to be true:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7M3rLWLoVY

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF0OAvxDND0

    So if Bush supports an AWB, Obama does, and quite possibly Romney and his flip-flopping ass would've, then doesn't that just reinforce my opinion that Reps and Dems are generally the same thing, and more so that single-issue voting isn't even safe from this "illusion of choice"? You can't even trust mainstream Republicans when it comes to gun rights?
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  • Plutarch
    Plutarch Members Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2013
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    janklow wrote: »
    Plutarch wrote: »
    Yeah, I and millions of others are experiencing the same problem. The system seems to not be working well. I’m still not sure whether the solution is mass activism and education or reform. But I’m not opting out just yet.
    right, but this ALSO means that until there's a solution i can sit back on my angry, angry principles. CHECKMATE

    Yeah, I guess you could…
    janklow wrote: »
    Plutarch wrote: »
    Ok, few non-mainstream politicians (you vote for third party candidates but won’t vote for nonmainstream Republican and Democrat candidates who are similar?) are truly different and actually good for the nation.
    now, i've voted for third-party candidates and non-mainstream Republicans and Democrats for years now. doesn't seem to be doing a lot. although from this point out i will not ever vote for a Democrat for an office in this state again.

    Yes, “alternative” voting hasn’t changed a lot, but it has changed some. And I predict that it will changed a lot more as new generations displace old ones (like the baby-boomers). It’s very apparent, and it just takes patience and dedication. It’s this patience and dedication that I’m trying to advocate in order to get rid of the unproductive apathy that I see everywhere.

    There are a few “good” Democrats imo heh.
    janklow wrote: »
    Plutarch wrote: »
    But I’m saying voting (and supporting) the ones who aren’t the ? . But ok, I can understand what you’re saying about your single-voting. I honestly believe (and know) that there are politicians (regardless of how few of them there are) who are genuine when it comes to helping the nation.
    yeah, i don't believe that there are. make a list for me so i can consider voting for them when the time comes.

    Heh, ok. But this list certainly isn’t perfect, but then again, nothing is perfect:
    - Governor Gary Johnson
    - Congressman Ron Paul
    - Congressman Denis Kucinich
    - Economist Jim Grant
    - Judge Alex Napalitano
    - Governor Jesse Ventura
    - Congressman Jim Demint
    - Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur
    - Congressman Bernie Sanders
    - Congressman Barney Frank
    - Congressman Mike Gravel
    - Governor John Huntsman
    - Congressman Walter Jones
    - Activist Ralph Nader
    - And millions of educated local delegates and other representatives like, say, up-and-coming-youngster-from-Massachusetts Evan Kenney. Hell, I’d support/vote for you and a couple of posters here on the SL if you all were to run for elections.
    janklow wrote: »
    Plutarch wrote: »
    Well damn.
    this is how janklow lives his life

    Heh yup...
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  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    edited July 2013
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    Plutarch wrote: »
    So if Bush supports an AWB, Obama does, and quite possibly Romney and his flip-flopping ass would've, then doesn't that just reinforce my opinion that Reps and Dems are generally the same thing, and more so that single-issue voting isn't even safe from this "illusion of choice"? You can't even trust mainstream Republicans when it comes to gun rights?
    actually, Bush Junior is the only president going back to Ford that hasn't promoted some anti-gun ? seriously. i have to give him that. really, you think i voted for ROMNEY in the last election? don't be fooled by the fact that i wouldn't vote for Obama due to him being an ? about guns.

    ...but here's the distinction: Obama/Biden ran as Democrats, who include their desire for an AWB/more gun control in the national platform and specifically touted how they wanted to reintroduce it on their web site. i don't trust Romney, but i will grant that he didn't actively promote how he wanted to ban guns.

    i mean, you know i'm fuming on this issue so it's not like i miss it when these presidents get slick about it.
    Plutarch wrote: »
    Yeah, I guess you could…
    can and will.
    Plutarch wrote: »
    There are a few “good” Democrats imo heh.
    yeah, i used to vote for some of them. but then their party moved me out of a district where i liked their candidate(s) and, as of 2013, i won't vote for a Democrat in this state (okay, with some select exemptions). it is what it is.
    Plutarch wrote: »
    Heh, ok. But this list certainly isn’t perfect, but then again, nothing is perfect:
    - Governor Gary Johnson
    - Congressman Ron Paul
    - Congressman Denis Kucinich
    - Economist Jim Grant
    - Judge Alex Napalitano
    - Governor Jesse Ventura
    - Congressman Jim Demint
    - Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur
    - Congressman Bernie Sanders
    - Congressman Barney Frank
    - Congressman Mike Gravel
    - Governor John Huntsman
    - Congressman Walter Jones
    - Activist Ralph Nader
    - And millions of educated local delegates and other representatives like, say, up-and-coming-youngster-from-Massachusetts Evan Kenney. Hell, I’d support/vote for you and a couple of posters here on the SL if you all were to run for elections.
    your list includes the guy i voted for in last year's primaries, the guy i voted for for president last year ... and an assortment of people i would never, EVER vote for. see also: single-issue voter.

    also, Jesse Ventura is a crazy person.
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