Battle Thread: Odin vs Trigon
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The Lonious, Galactus's max capacity for destruction, ever in his life, was Galaxy level. You say he's not interested in destroying universes, but that's literally exactly what he's doing right now against the Ultimate Universe. So you're wrong. If he could consume entire Universes as Trigon did, he would as it'd sate his hunger for much, much longer clearly.
And btw Temper Tantrum implies A LOT of energy. I don't know about you ? , but most people when angry end up trying a good amount. So he woke up, threw a temper tantrum (read tried) and destroyed Star Systems. Not impressive.
And yeah, if you lose to entities that aren't universal, if you can't beat universal level entities, if you can't beat entities that can't destroy and conquer universes, that makes you less than Universal in power. This is where Galactus falls.
Strange beat Galactus by making him feel the pain/terror of all his victims. Considering he'd have trillions or more victims, it makes sense. No plot stupidity at all.
@evoljeanyes ? , Doom is shown specifically fighting Galactus, stealing his power, and then going on to fight and drain The Beyonder. He used that ? as a stepping stone. And to this day, Galactus can't ? with Doom.
Oh so Jim Jaspers can destroy the ominverse through warping but he can't warp Galactus? Ok, prove it. Prove that Galactus is somehow immune to reality warping that affects all of creation as Jasper's ? was said to do.
He might be a necessity, who cares, he's still weaker than most entities and that's the facts, them the brakes. Galactus is weaker than Trigon, no matter how "essential" he is. We talking about strength not about necessity.
@jaxn
Doom beat Galactus 2/2 times and has tech to drain him. Without plot, he should win everytime. Ask Surfer (who's actually defeated Galactus before), as Thor (who's beaten Galactus before), as Reed (who's beaten Galactus before). Hell Reed was beating an anti-Galactus Robot at one time, and there were rumors of Galactus Buster armor for Tony.
Franklin's not even top 5 on Earth b. Jim Jaspers is stronger, Legion is stronger (what part of the Universe in a box don't you get?), Doom kidnapped him and drained his powers, ? like Mr. M and ? too. Galactus can't even ? with Gaia (however you spell it) who'd an Elder ? in herself, as in Cthton level, who's also above Galactus.
And wrong. Odin stalemated Darkseid already in the DC Universe, and that Odin seemed more powerful as he literally opened up a Pocket Universe to trap Surtur in. Unlike Marvel Odin who's Galaxy level at best.
Also fix that mess of quotes. ? looks like jibberish.
So yeah it goes like this. Shuma's multiversal. Trigon's low multiversal, high universal, Galactus is high Galaxy level fully fed, Odin's mid Galaxy level aka skyfather. So Shuma>Trigon>Galactus>Odin. Period. -
DarkRaiden wrote: »The Lonious, Galactus's max capacity for destruction, ever in his life, was Galaxy level. You say he's not interested in destroying universes, but that's literally exactly what he's doing right now against the Ultimate Universe. So you're wrong. If he could consume entire Universes as Trigon did, he would as it'd sate his hunger for much, much longer clearly.
And btw Temper Tantrum implies A LOT of energy. I don't know about you ? , but most people when angry end up trying a good amount. So he woke up, threw a temper tantrum (read tried) and destroyed Star Systems. Not impressive.
And yeah, if you lose to entities that aren't universal, if you can't beat universal level entities, if you can't beat entities that can't destroy and conquer universes, that makes you less than Universal in power. This is where Galactus falls.
Strange beat Galactus by making him feel the pain/terror of all his victims. Considering he'd have trillions or more victims, it makes sense. No plot stupidity at all.
I don't think you understand how nonsensical most of the ? you say is.
Galactus hasn't entered the Ultimate Universe to destroy the universe. He entered it to find new worlds to feed on, the same way he does in the 616 universe. It's being billed as the end of the Ultimate Universe because besides Earth and the remnants of the Kree and Skrulls, there isn't much else in that universe because of the Gah Lak Tus swarm.
Nowhere does a temper tantrum imply a lot of energy. My baby daughter throws temper tantrums and then gets up and runs around full energized when she's finished. Galactus let out his energy wave and then left fully powered with no signs of exertion.
You're making up definitions to fit your point. A "Universal" power just means the character is powerful enough to create/destroy/manipulate/etc... on a universal scale. Galactus has already demonstrated that power, so your argument is just stupid.
Strange beat a Galactus weakened by hunger (the usual plot device used with Galactus) by pulling a random spell out of nowhere to make Galactus feel the pain from all his victims (the usual DEM that Strange always came up with in the past). That proves nothing. Strange also has wins over Shuma Gorath. Does that mean Shuma isn't a universal being even though he's already conquered universes? Hell, Conan has defeated Shuma before.
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DarkRaiden wrote: »The Lonious, Galactus's max capacity for destruction, ever in his life, was Galaxy level. You say he's not interested in destroying universes, but that's literally exactly what he's doing right now against the Ultimate Universe. So you're wrong. If he could consume entire Universes as Trigon did, he would as it'd sate his hunger for much, much longer clearly.
And btw Temper Tantrum implies A LOT of energy. I don't know about you ? , but most people when angry end up trying a good amount. So he woke up, threw a temper tantrum (read tried) and destroyed Star Systems. Not impressive.
And yeah, if you lose to entities that aren't universal, if you can't beat universal level entities, if you can't beat entities that can't destroy and conquer universes, that makes you less than Universal in power. This is where Galactus falls.
Strange beat Galactus by making him feel the pain/terror of all his victims. Considering he'd have trillions or more victims, it makes sense. No plot stupidity at all.
Galactus can't ? with Doom? are you serious man? See i can just leave this alone right now due to the sheer ignorance of this post. Before you debate Galactus you need to learn about him@evoljeanyes ? , Doom is shown specifically fighting Galactus, stealing his power, and then going on to fight and drain The Beyonder. He used that ? as a stepping stone. And to this day, Galactus can't ? with Doom.Oh so Jim Jaspers can destroy the ominverse through warping but he can't warp Galactus? Ok, prove it. Prove that Galactus is somehow immune to reality warping that affects all of creation as Jasper's ? was said to do.
JJ cannot ? with Galactus. He cannot even begin to comprehend Galactus
Who are all of these entities that are stronger than Galactus? You do realize that many of these entities don't want none of him right?He might be a necessity, who cares, he's still weaker than most entities and that's the facts, them the brakes. Galactus is weaker than Trigon, no matter how "essential" he is. We talking about strength not about necessity.
utter nonsense. Without plot, Doom dies along with everyone on Earth. Surfer has never beaten Galactus, ever. The closest he's ever come is in the future when he was the Keeper..how in the hell can Surfer defeat Galactus when Galactus can remove his power with the wave of his hand? Thor has never beaten Galactus. In the meeting I think you're referring to is when Thor drove Galan back?? yeah in that arc it was said Odin was helping Thor and later was retconned. If you think Thor can beat Galactus then something is seriously wrong here. What the ? is an anti-Galactus robot and what does it have to do with Galan...a Galactus buster armor for Tony? bwahahahahaha I assume you're talking about the armor in this latest arc for Ironman?@jaxn
Doom beat Galactus 2/2 times and has tech to drain him. Without plot, he should win everytime. Ask Surfer (who's actually defeated Galactus before), as Thor (who's beaten Galactus before), as Reed (who's beaten Galactus before). Hell Reed was beating an anti-Galactus Robot at one time, and there were rumors of Galactus Buster armor for Tony.
there's so much failure in this post, I don't know where to begin..Franklin is stronger than all that you've named. Legion nor JJ are stronger..the hell, do you not realize that Franklin has also created his own pocket universe complete with cosmic characters and kept this universe in his pants pocket..what part about that do you not get?? What's even more impressive is that Franklin actually saved the real 616 heroes lives by doing this and had dopplegangers in this new universe with the same power levels as their counterparts
Franklin's not even top 5 on Earth b. Jim Jaspers is stronger, Legion is stronger (what part of the Universe in a box don't you get?), Doom kidnapped him and drained his powers, ? like Mr. M and ? too. Galactus can't even ? with Gaia (however you spell it) who'd an Elder ? in herself, as in Cthton level, who's also above Galactus.And wrong. Odin stalemated Darkseid already in the DC Universe, and that Odin seemed more powerful as he literally opened up a Pocket Universe to trap Surtur in. Unlike Marvel Odin who's Galaxy level at best.
This is idiocy..you're comparing the Odin from DC to the Odin from Marvel. Odin, from Marvel, you know the one in this thread, has never faced DS and would absolutely humilate him if he did.
your entire thought process is jibberishAlso fix that mess of quotes. ? looks like jibberish.So yeah it goes like this. Shuma's multiversal. Trigon's low multiversal, high universal, Galactus is high Galaxy level fully fed, Odin's mid Galaxy level aka skyfather. So Shuma>Trigon>Galactus>Odin. Period.
yeah it goes that you have absolutely no clue about what you're talking about....yet again -
Well Thor did beat Galactus technically. Of course just saying that pretty much hides the events. The sequence went like this:
Thor attacks Galactus with no effect other than making Galactus feel pain.
Galactus grabs Thor and throws him at Ego so hard that it would have killed Thor.
Ego saves Thor's life.
Thor sets Mjolnir up on an altar on Ego's surface and powers up his godblast.
Thor hits Galactus with the godblast while Galactus is distracted fighting Ego.
Galactus retreats because the godblast somehow steals his energy weakening him. (Hey look, that plot device again) -
oh yeah, I remember the instance..It's just that during that time, there was either an editor's note or another issue in that storyline that suggested Thor was tapping into the Odinforce to perform that feat
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@jaxn when you were gone...I had this same battle with @darkraiden he just doesn't understand comics. Doom and surfer are peons to Galactus...Jim Jasper's...really? Anyways...Odin is at least equal to Trigon. And when he decides to beat those of his equal he does. So...that's that. This man saying Galactus can only destroy a universe makes him stupid. He beat the ? out of inbetweener after he destroyed universes. Galactus is above death. He is below only living tribunal in a class with sise neg eternity and obivion death infinity and phoenix force. Anyways...Odin wins...Galactus is possibly top 5 sure top 10
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@evoljeanyes word...Doom's a peon to Galactus, but he took his powers and has dwarfed him in power many times. Word, Surfer didn't defeat 2 beings that whooped Galactus's ass. Surfer didn't one time turn Galactus's machines against him, killing him for what he thought was the greater good. Jaspers wasn't tated to be a Multiversal threat right?
As for Odin, lets look at when he fights Darkseid level people. He fought Thanos, man to man and no matter what he threw at him, he couldn't put him down. Odin has been hurt by Thor before, someone of much lower class than Trigon. And no galactus can't destroy a universe, why? Because the universe has Eternity, oblivion, Death, etc. in it.
And Sise-neg is Omnipotent, far above LT and above Galactus by a long shot. And tell me, if Galactus is so powerful, why does he CONSTANTLY lose to weaker beings, when none of the other entities do? Galctus has been blasted on his ass by Thanos, head up. He won the fight, but still, that ? 's embarrassing. phoenix has embarrassed Galactus, Thor has busted his helmet with one strike (in the recent Odin vs. Galactus, Surfer vs. Thor fight), and Odin headbutted him (killed himself) and KO'd Galactus momentarily.
Why did he lose to Ego the living Planet while Thor defeated him? Why does Surfer constantly protect him from Thor as if he fears he'll die if he faces him? How does he get turned into a mere herald by Franklin Richards? How does Mephisto stalemate him when they fought in his realm? He's the only entity that his happens to, and that's because he's far weaker than the other names you threw out there.
BTW Phoenix force is weaker than Jim Jaspers, weaker than the Goblin Force and others in that list are Chaos and Order (their herald, their silver surfer is In-Betweener), Galactus was stalemated vs. only 1 Vishanti, this is till a fact, and he's been beaten far too many times to be as powerful as you want to claim he is. Also, he's diead before, meaning he can lose to Death. If one is more powerful than Death, one cannot die.
The Lonious, b, you're young daughter doesn't even have her full functions and thought processes behind her. Not the same as soMeone in full control of themselves. Anger and tantrums imply a fair amount of power automatically. When you're angry you try to send a message and try to damage people.
And no, Galactus has never shown Universal capabilities, especially not consistently. He's always shown to be galaxy level or below. Hell, he doesn't even have the Ultimate Nullifier as normal gear, as he gave it to Reed IIRC. He has never, under his own power, proven to do anything on universal scale. Period.
@jaxn get your quote game better, cause that ? is terrible b. And maybe you don't understand logic, but I'll try and break it down for you. IN DC, Darkseid stalemated Odin. In DC, Odin displayed universal level powers, more than Odin in Marvel has. In DC, Trigon easily beat the very people that beat Darkseid, by just showing up, and he was weakened IIRC. Thus, Trigon>>>>>>Darkseid=Odin DC>Odin Marvel. See? It's a comparison of power level shown, aka feats and that's it. Also I could bring up how Odin couldn't put down Thanos, who's Darkseid level as I did before. Either way, Trigon eclipses him.
Let's see, It's been stated in Marvel before that the 616 universe, the main universe we see, is the nexus of the Marvel Omniverse, that if the 616 universe is destroyed, it could rupture the Multiverse, or similar statements. Franklin has universes where people are weaker for the most part, but still he has his own entities or w/e and it's impressive. Legion has the nexus of the Multiverse, the 616 Universe in his shoebox at home. That's far, far more impressive.
Other entities more powerful than Galactus? Jim Jaspers, stated multiversal threat, at least universal threat when at his weakest. The Fury, killed the other universe Jaspers who was a universal threat. The Beyonder, Molecule Man, Eternity, Infinity, Death, Phoenix Force, Goblin force, Cyttroak in his dimension, Legion, Franklin Richards, Chaos, Order, M'kaan Crystal, anyone with the Infinity Gauntlet, Oblivion, Chaos King, Celestials, apparently tenebrous and Aegis should they combine, Living tribunal, TOAA, and more. People like Mister M are debatable.
And again, if Galactus can beat Doom, why was he beaten twice and had his powers stolen? Why does Galactus have a tough fight with Odin, but Doom with Galactus's powers, nearly oneshots him? Why does Doom constantly obtain omnipotence and only lose when plot demands it? Doom is above Galactus and has proven it time and time again.
And no, Galactus can't touch Earth. He can't beat Franklin Richards, can't get past Reed Richards, can't bet Dr. Strange at his best, if Thor can drive him back, wonder what Thor, Hulk, Hyperion, Sentry, and Captain universe will do combined? Can't beat Legion, can't beat Mister M possibly, can't beat Molecule Man, can't beat Phoenix, and more. I know all about Galactus. You guys just seem to boost him and take only the best about him, boost it more and decide that that's where his power level is. But nah, he's nowhere near top anything and would be demolished by Marvel Earth in a secon flat, without plot. -
DarkRaiden wrote: »The Lonious, b, you're young daughter doesn't even have her full functions and thought processes behind her. Not the same as soMeone in full control of themselves. Anger and tantrums imply a fair amount of power automatically. When you're angry you try to send a message and try to damage people.
And no, Galactus has never shown Universal capabilities, especially not consistently. He's always shown to be galaxy level or below. Hell, he doesn't even have the Ultimate Nullifier as normal gear, as he gave it to Reed IIRC. He has never, under his own power, proven to do anything on universal scale. Period.
What are you talking about? You are really making up ? and it's pathetic. Your argument is completely unfounded. Galactus let out that energy wave in a fit of rage and there was absolutely nothing suggesting it drained him at all. In fact, it's to the contrary because the image of him after he released the wave showed him still brimming with power. Stop this nonsense man. You're clearly just grasping at straws here and it's unnecessary. You're wrong on this point, so just leave it at that.
And you're showing that you don't read at all because everything you say in contradicted by what's said in the comics. The UN is not "gear." It's specifically stated in the comic that it is Galactus' own power. And he doesn't need to have it with him at all times, because he's already demonstrated that since it's his power, he can summon it to him at any time as he did when he took it away from Abraxas. And yes, Galactus gave it to Reed to use because it's just that dangerous. Again they explicitly state this in the comics. In Reed's hands the UN could be used to restart and correct the Universe, which pales in comparison to what it would do in Galactus' hands. So basically rewriting the Universe is trivial compared to what Galactus can do with the UN.
There is no point in discussing this though because you have no idea what you're talking about. Without plot, Marvel Earth could never stop Galactus. The heroes have NEVER beaten a reasonably fed Galactus. You keep on naming these people that are supposed to beat him. Have you forgotten about Hyperstorm? He's arguably the most powerful mutant to ever exist. He was the son of Franklin Richards and Rachel Summers and had both of their powers and more. No one on earth could do ? to him, so what was their big plan to beat him? They basically found Galactus and Galactus ate him. No one is saying Galactus is the strongest being there is or that he's unbeatable. He's clearly not, but you have no idea what you're talking about and are not assessing his power correctly. -
exactlyThe Lonious Monk wrote: »DarkRaiden wrote: »The Lonious, b, you're young daughter doesn't even have her full functions and thought processes behind her. Not the same as soMeone in full control of themselves. Anger and tantrums imply a fair amount of power automatically. When you're angry you try to send a message and try to damage people.
And no, Galactus has never shown Universal capabilities, especially not consistently. He's always shown to be galaxy level or below. Hell, he doesn't even have the Ultimate Nullifier as normal gear, as he gave it to Reed IIRC. He has never, under his own power, proven to do anything on universal scale. Period.
What are you talking about? You are really making up ? and it's pathetic. Your argument is completely unfounded. Galactus let out that energy wave in a fit of rage and there was absolutely nothing suggesting it drained him at all. In fact, it's to the contrary because the image of him after he released the wave showed him still brimming with power. Stop this nonsense man. You're clearly just grasping at straws here and it's unnecessary. You're wrong on this point, so just leave it at that.
And you're showing that you don't read at all because everything you say in contradicted by what's said in the comics. The UN is not "gear." It's specifically stated in the comic that it is Galactus' own power. And he doesn't need to have it with him at all times, because he's already demonstrated that since it's his power, he can summon it to him at any time as he did when he took it away from Abraxas. And yes, Galactus gave it to Reed to use because it's just that dangerous. Again they explicitly state this in the comics. In Reed's hands the UN could be used to restart and correct the Universe, which pales in comparison to what it would do in Galactus' hands. So basically rewriting the Universe is trivial compared to what Galactus can do with the UN.
There is no point in discussing this though because you have no idea what you're talking about. Without plot, Marvel Earth could never stop Galactus. The heroes have NEVER beaten a reasonably fed Galactus. You keep on naming these people that are supposed to beat him. Have you forgotten about Hyperstorm? He's arguably the most powerful mutant to ever exist. He was the son of Franklin Richards and Rachel Summers and had both of their powers and more. No one on earth could do ? to him, so what was their big plan to beat him? They basically found Galactus and Galactus ate him. No one is saying Galactus is the strongest being there is or that he's unbeatable. He's clearly not, but you have no idea what you're talking about and are not assessing his power correctly. -
DarkRaiden wrote: »@evoljeanyes word...Doom's a peon to Galactus, but he took his powers and has dwarfed him in power many times. Word, Surfer didn't defeat 2 beings that whooped Galactus's ass. Surfer didn't one time turn Galactus's machines against him, killing him for what he thought was the greater good. Jaspers wasn't tated to be a Multiversal threat right?
As for Odin, lets look at when he fights Darkseid level people. He fought Thanos, man to man and no matter what he threw at him, he couldn't put him down. Odin has been hurt by Thor before, someone of much lower class than Trigon. And no galactus can't destroy a universe, why? Because the universe has Eternity, oblivion, Death, etc. in it.
And Sise-neg is Omnipotent, far above LT and above Galactus by a long shot. And tell me, if Galactus is so powerful, why does he CONSTANTLY lose to weaker beings, when none of the other entities do? Galctus has been blasted on his ass by Thanos, head up. He won the fight, but still, that ? 's embarrassing. phoenix has embarrassed Galactus, Thor has busted his helmet with one strike (in the recent Odin vs. Galactus, Surfer vs. Thor fight), and Odin headbutted him (killed himself) and KO'd Galactus momentarily.
Why did he lose to Ego the living Planet while Thor defeated him? Why does Surfer constantly protect him from Thor as if he fears he'll die if he faces him? How does he get turned into a mere herald by Franklin Richards? How does Mephisto stalemate him when they fought in his realm? He's the only entity that his happens to, and that's because he's far weaker than the other names you threw out there.
BTW Phoenix force is weaker than Jim Jaspers, weaker than the Goblin Force and others in that list are Chaos and Order (their herald, their silver surfer is In-Betweener), Galactus was stalemated vs. only 1 Vishanti, this is till a fact, and he's been beaten far too many times to be as powerful as you want to claim he is. Also, he's diead before, meaning he can lose to Death. If one is more powerful than Death, one cannot die.
The Lonious, b, you're young daughter doesn't even have her full functions and thought processes behind her. Not the same as soMeone in full control of themselves. Anger and tantrums imply a fair amount of power automatically. When you're angry you try to send a message and try to damage people.
And no, Galactus has never shown Universal capabilities, especially not consistently. He's always shown to be galaxy level or below. Hell, he doesn't even have the Ultimate Nullifier as normal gear, as he gave it to Reed IIRC. He has never, under his own power, proven to do anything on universal scale. Period.
@jaxn get your quote game better, cause that ? is terrible b. And maybe you don't understand logic, but I'll try and break it down for you. IN DC, Darkseid stalemated Odin. In DC, Odin displayed universal level powers, more than Odin in Marvel has. In DC, Trigon easily beat the very people that beat Darkseid, by just showing up, and he was weakened IIRC. Thus, Trigon>>>>>>Darkseid=Odin DC>Odin Marvel. See? It's a comparison of power level shown, aka feats and that's it. Also I could bring up how Odin couldn't put down Thanos, who's Darkseid level as I did before. Either way, Trigon eclipses him.
Let's see, It's been stated in Marvel before that the 616 universe, the main universe we see, is the nexus of the Marvel Omniverse, that if the 616 universe is destroyed, it could rupture the Multiverse, or similar statements. Franklin has universes where people are weaker for the most part, but still he has his own entities or w/e and it's impressive. Legion has the nexus of the Multiverse, the 616 Universe in his shoebox at home. That's far, far more impressive.
Other entities more powerful than Galactus? Jim Jaspers, stated multiversal threat, at least universal threat when at his weakest. The Fury, killed the other universe Jaspers who was a universal threat. The Beyonder, Molecule Man, Eternity, Infinity, Death, Phoenix Force, Goblin force, Cyttroak in his dimension, Legion, Franklin Richards, Chaos, Order, M'kaan Crystal, anyone with the Infinity Gauntlet, Oblivion, Chaos King, Celestials, apparently tenebrous and Aegis should they combine, Living tribunal, TOAA, and more. People like Mister M are debatable.
And again, if Galactus can beat Doom, why was he beaten twice and had his powers stolen? Why does Galactus have a tough fight with Odin, but Doom with Galactus's powers, nearly oneshots him? Why does Doom constantly obtain omnipotence and only lose when plot demands it? Doom is above Galactus and has proven it time and time again.
And no, Galactus can't touch Earth. He can't beat Franklin Richards, can't get past Reed Richards, can't bet Dr. Strange at his best, if Thor can drive him back, wonder what Thor, Hulk, Hyperion, Sentry, and Captain universe will do combined? Can't beat Legion, can't beat Mister M possibly, can't beat Molecule Man, can't beat Phoenix, and more. I know all about Galactus. You guys just seem to boost him and take only the best about him, boost it more and decide that that's where his power level is. But nah, he's nowhere near top anything and would be demolished by Marvel Earth in a secon flat, without plot.
we can agree to just disagree -
Yo for real I am usually a peacekeeper on here, but @darkraiden is the W.O.A.T. QC poster
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The Lonious, I never said galactus was drained, just that he exerted effort. He tried when he destroyed the star systems. Period. And yeah UN is gear, because Galactus doesn't have it on him or use it much. in character, he almost never even lays hands on it. Where was it when the Celestials combined and beat his ass? Where was it when Tenebrous and Aegis ? him up? Where was it when Odin drove him away from Asgard? Going by comics, he more often than not, elects to not use the UN, ever. So spare me the ? .
Hyperstorm? He was essentially just energy IIRC so Galactus ate him, plus he's never done anything on Franklin Richards' level so I don't see your point. He's not even top 5 mutants btw with Franklin Richards, Shaman Nate Grey, Legion, Mister M, Jim Jaspers, Hope Summers (potentially), and more I'm probably forgetting. He was hard to beat for Earth, probably because of plot (not as familiar with him) as Thor can absorb and redirect galaxy busting energy, Photon has absorbed interdimensional energy, Surfer (if he wants to help) can manipulate the Crunch, Darwin can adapt to it, Doom can absorb his energy, and more. If logic were used instead of plot of course.
As for reasonably fed Galactus, guess what? He never shows up, so it's all a what if? An assumption. Regardless it shouldn't change vs. Doom who has machines that absorbed the Beyonder's powers, someone far above Galactus. It really shouldn't change things
And I'll say it again, he's never even gotten close to proving he'd be even top 5 in Marvel Earth. When he stops losing to Ego and being beat by people Surfer beats, then I might believe it. When he starts beating people who warp universes, I might believe it. Until then, he's not taking Marvel Earth.
And @jaxn sure agree to disagree.
@evoljeanyes lol please ? . You said Galactus was >Death, and you said Martian Manhunter was >Silver Surfer. You have no room to speak.
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DarkRaiden wrote: »The Lonious, I never said galactus was drained, just that he exerted effort. He tried when he destroyed the star systems. Period. And yeah UN is gear, because Galactus doesn't have it on him or use it much. in character, he almost never even lays hands on it. Where was it when the Celestials combined and beat his ass? Where was it when Tenebrous and Aegis ? him up? Where was it when Odin drove him away from Asgard? Going by comics, he more often than not, elects to not use the UN, ever. So spare me the ? .
Again, you have no proof that Galactus put any substantial effort into that attack. You basically want him to have done that, so you're saying he did even if you have absolutely no proof.
The UN is not gear. Just because you continue to say something doesn't mean it's true. It was stated in a comic that the UN is part of Galactus' power, so that's canonical fact. You sitting here trying to argue against that is just silly. And again, I don't think you understand what the UN is. As I stated before, rewriting the universe was considered a rudimentary usage of the UN. And I'm now convinced you don't read the comics and just talk out of your ass. Why would Galactus bring out the UN for the Celestials? He was handling them solo without it and only lost when they unexpectedly merged and blasted him. He had also beaten T&A and all of the primordial gods before so he had no reason to think he needed a power that could potentially destroy the entire universe if used wrong. The question was not "Does Galactus use his universal power a lot?" Again, I've already stated that Galactus has no reason to do such a thing. The question was "Does Galactus have universal level power?" And the answer is "yes." That's proven fact and nothing you can say will change that.Hyperstorm? He was essentially just energy IIRC so Galactus ate him, plus he's never done anything on Franklin Richards' level so I don't see your point. He's not even top 5 mutants btw with Franklin Richards, Shaman Nate Grey, Legion, Mister M, Jim Jaspers, Hope Summers (potentially), and more I'm probably forgetting. He was hard to beat for Earth, probably because of plot (not as familiar with him) as Thor can absorb and redirect galaxy busting energy, Photon has absorbed interdimensional energy, Surfer (if he wants to help) can manipulate the Crunch, Darwin can adapt to it, Doom can absorb his energy, and more. If logic were used instead of plot of course.
Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. Hyperstorm had high level psionic abilities and reality warping. He was most certainly as powerful as all those people you named. And again, I've got to laugh at you using the plot argument against one character all the while bashing Galactus who has pretty much only ever lost to lower characters because of plot. Come on bruh.As for reasonably fed Galactus, guess what? He never shows up, so it's all a what if? An assumption. Regardless it shouldn't change vs. Doom who has machines that absorbed the Beyonder's powers, someone far above Galactus. It really shouldn't change things
And I'll say it again, he's never even gotten close to proving he'd be even top 5 in Marvel Earth. When he stops losing to Ego and being beat by people Surfer beats, then I might believe it. When he starts beating people who warp universes, I might believe it. Until then, he's not taking Marvel Earth.
Did you just say that Galactus wouldn't even be top 5 on Marvel Earth? Why didn't you say that at the very beginning, so we could all know to completely ignore everything from you on this matter. Yeah, this discussion is done. -
Galactus is above death and also, I said Martian wouldn't get stomped by Surfer. I never said he was above him. But until next time we see your ? post stupid ? . Later
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The Lonious, b, come on son.
Galactus threw a temper tantrum, aka he was angry. When you're angry some effort is put into whatever you're doing. It's a fact, it's logic, it's common sense. No one said he went 100% ham on ? , but he still tried. To pretend it was no effort is misrepresenting it. It's like when Surfer threw tantrums, he's destroyed planets IIRC and one time it actually amped him up to Galactus level (that ? happened for like...1 second though so not too impactful). Anger usually leads to some effort, Galactus destroyed Star Systems with effort. He also destroyed Galaxies with effort, but he's not universe level.
UN is gear, cool, but he never uses it when he needs it, so it's inconsequential. Why would he have it against Celestials? Because there are single Celestials stronger than him maybe? And if it was standard gear, why didn't he just pull it out after they fused together? Same with T & A, why not pull it out and beat them with it? Why does Surfer have to be the one to do it? Why not use a tool that can rewrite universes to sate his hunger? Or to beat Thanos when he took the Infinity Gauntlet? Or to beat Beyonder when he tried to fight him? Or to take over Asgard (He even said it would fill his hunger for damn near ever so he had stakes)? Or to take over Marvel Earth which he's failed to do about 100 times, Or to get his powers back from Doom, etc. There's been too many situation where loses, and a few where he DIES and yet never pulls out the UN. It's essentially not even gear for him.
Let me see something Hyperstorm did. Tell me his feats. Did he create pocket universes? Was he an omniversal threat? Did he warp ? on a high level? Because I've never heard anyone ever say Hyperstorm is on Franklin Richards' level. Franklin's done more, waay more, including taking on Celestials and actually beating/humbling Galactus. Cause Jim Jaspers, Legion, Franklin Richards, Mister M, etc. all have high end reality warping and some have created their own universes.
Word.....he's top 5 on Marvel Earth?
Ok tell me what Galactus did better than Legion having a universe in a box, creating his own universe, and killing Limbo's Elder Gods? I'll wait.
Tell me what Galactus did better than Franklin Richards creating his own universes? I'll wait
Tell me what Galactus did better than HOM Scarlet Witch with her omniversal chaos warp that depowered mutants and revived Jim Jaspers? I'll wait
Tell me what Galactus did better than Jim Jaspers not only warping all of reality, but replacing Eternity and becoming an actual universe and having his warp said to be an omniversal threat? I'll wait.
You see this, the list of high end reality warpers on Marvel Earth? There's more and more and even characters who straight up beat Galactus head up (Doom, Phoenix). Most cosmic entities maybe even Death and Eternity might not be top 5 on Marvel Earth. It's not a bad thing at all b. stop underestimating just how powerful Marvel Earth is.
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Hyperstorm beat Franklin
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DarkRaiden wrote: »The Lonious, b, come on son.
Galactus threw a temper tantrum, aka he was angry. When you're angry some effort is put into whatever you're doing. It's a fact, it's logic, it's common sense. No one said he went 100% ham on ? , but he still tried. To pretend it was no effort is misrepresenting it. It's like when Surfer threw tantrums, he's destroyed planets IIRC and one time it actually amped him up to Galactus level (that ? happened for like...1 second though so not too impactful). Anger usually leads to some effort, Galactus destroyed Star Systems with effort. He also destroyed Galaxies with effort, but he's not universe level.
UN is gear, cool, but he never uses it when he needs it, so it's inconsequential. Why would he have it against Celestials? Because there are single Celestials stronger than him maybe? And if it was standard gear, why didn't he just pull it out after they fused together? Same with T & A, why not pull it out and beat them with it? Why does Surfer have to be the one to do it? Why not use a tool that can rewrite universes to sate his hunger? Or to beat Thanos when he took the Infinity Gauntlet? Or to beat Beyonder when he tried to fight him? Or to take over Asgard (He even said it would fill his hunger for damn near ever so he had stakes)? Or to take over Marvel Earth which he's failed to do about 100 times, Or to get his powers back from Doom, etc. There's been too many situation where loses, and a few where he DIES and yet never pulls out the UN. It's essentially not even gear for him.
Let me see something Hyperstorm did. Tell me his feats. Did he create pocket universes? Was he an omniversal threat? Did he warp ? on a high level? Because I've never heard anyone ever say Hyperstorm is on Franklin Richards' level. Franklin's done more, waay more, including taking on Celestials and actually beating/humbling Galactus. Cause Jim Jaspers, Legion, Franklin Richards, Mister M, etc. all have high end reality warping and some have created their own universes.
Word.....he's top 5 on Marvel Earth?
Ok tell me what Galactus did better than Legion having a universe in a box, creating his own universe, and killing Limbo's Elder Gods? I'll wait.
Tell me what Galactus did better than Franklin Richards creating his own universes? I'll wait
Tell me what Galactus did better than HOM Scarlet Witch with her omniversal chaos warp that depowered mutants and revived Jim Jaspers? I'll wait
Tell me what Galactus did better than Jim Jaspers not only warping all of reality, but replacing Eternity and becoming an actual universe and having his warp said to be an omniversal threat? I'll wait.
You see this, the list of high end reality warpers on Marvel Earth? There's more and more and even characters who straight up beat Galactus head up (Doom, Phoenix). Most cosmic entities maybe even Death and Eternity might not be top 5 on Marvel Earth. It's not a bad thing at all b. stop underestimating just how powerful Marvel Earth is.
Dog being able to create a pocket universe is not the end all be all of power. Pretty much ever Demon out there has created his own pocket realm, and we've seen that those realms are massive. Something like that is exceptional on Marvel Earth, but in the greater Marvel Universe, it's not all that special.
The ability of those reality warpers to create their own universes has absolutely no bearing on how they'd do in an encounter with a cosmic being. That's what you don't seem to understand. Tell me one time when the Living Tribunal has stepped forward to comment on the actions of these reality warpers. Every time Thanos gets a major power and threatens the Universe, the LT pops up to make a judgement on what should be done. Has the LT ever given a ? about Franklin Richards or Scarlet Witch or Jim Jaspers? Have the high level Cosmics ever convened to figure out what they should do like they have when real threats to the universe have popped up? No. In fact, every thin we've seen suggests that the Cosmics don't give a ? about reality warpers because in most cases shown, the reality warping doesn't even affect them. In fact, if I'm not mistaken it was flat out stated that Scarlet Witch's warp bubble went completely beneath the notice of the higher Cosmic beings.
The only one of those reality warpers you've named that has consistently been able to stand against high level Cosmic threats is Franklin Richards, and even then, it's only future Franklin not the current version. Think about when Abraxas was running wild. Frankin couldn't just blink him out of existence. Franklin had to bring Galactus out of stasis so Galactus could provide them with what they needed to beat him.
You are overrating these reality warpers. They are always shown to be crazy powerful, but that is almost always in comparison to characters on Earth. None of those dudes are running around on the Cosmic Marvel scene causing the same havoc. And therein lies what you don't seem to see. Marvel is not DC where the Earth powers and the Cosmic powers are roughly the same level. In Marvel, the Cosmic arena is on a much higher plane. The same characters that premiere heroes on Earth are typically fodder in the Cosmic events. Hell, this point should be clear to anyone reading Infinity. Damn, near all the Earth heroes are out in space for this War including a lot of heavy hitters. They aren't the leaders or the exceptional powerhouses. They are just grunts in the army. And this isn't even an event involving Cosmics. In fact, they made a point of sending Galactus to the Ultimate Universe while this even goes on because they know the Builders wouldn't be much of a threat when Galactus wipes them out for destroying potential food sources.
Honestly, if you think that Marvel Earth has even one character that is more powerful than Eternity, you should just stop posting here for good. -
let's be fair here..LT may have only shown up with Thanos during the End..Even when he had the IG, iirc, the LT didn't care enough about the battle to pass judgement, because it didn't matter if Thanos won. I haven't looked at the book in awhile, but i'm pretty sure when the cosmics came to LT for assistance, he told them to ? off because Thanos wasn't really doing anything worthy of his judgement
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@jaxn naw he knew it was happening it was an effect he just said he wasn't jumping in because he said Thanos had the tight to take over the universe because power switches in the universe that's how it goes. So he was on LT'S RADAR. He just didn't feel he had the right to impede.
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I didn't say he didn't notice. I said he didn't bother to interfere. the LT notices everything, that's his role
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let's be fair here..LT may have only shown up with Thanos during the End..Even when he had the IG, iirc, the LT didn't care enough about the battle to pass judgement, because it didn't matter if Thanos won. I haven't looked at the book in awhile, but i'm pretty sure when the cosmics came to LT for assistance, he told them to ? off because Thanos wasn't really doing anything worthy of his judgement
The point is, the Cosmics cared enough to take it to the LT and the LT acknowledged it enough to make a judgement. This isn't quite true. The events of the IG Saga along with what Adam Warlock did afterward played into the LT's judgement to make it so that the gems couldn't be used together again. So LT did see them as threats, he just didn't go with the initial argument that the Cosmics brought. If I'm not mistaken Eternity guessed that Thanos would try and be the new Eternity, and LT was like "Oh well, sucks to be you." However, after he saw how much damage people were causing with the IG, he acted.
The Cosmics didn't give a flying ? about M day or the fact that there are people on Earth running around creating pocket universes or creating multiversal ripples. Only the Earth characters are awed by those things.
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »let's be fair here..LT may have only shown up with Thanos during the End..Even when he had the IG, iirc, the LT didn't care enough about the battle to pass judgement, because it didn't matter if Thanos won. I haven't looked at the book in awhile, but i'm pretty sure when the cosmics came to LT for assistance, he told them to ? off because Thanos wasn't really doing anything worthy of his judgement
I'm addressing the Thanos portion of your comments. He didn't make a judgment on Thanos. He didn't care about Thanos and regardless, Thanos was in possession of all the gems. Those gems combined are more powerful than JJ or Franklin..The point is, the Cosmics cared enough to take it to the LT and the LT acknowledged it enough to make a judgement. This isn't quite true. The events of the IG Saga along with what Adam Warlock did afterward played into the LT's judgement to make it so that the gems couldn't be used together again. So LT did see them as threats, he just didn't go with the initial argument that the Cosmics brought. If I'm not mistaken Eternity guessed that Thanos would try and be the new Eternity, and LT was like "Oh well, sucks to be you." However, after he saw how much damage people were causing with the IG, he acted.The Cosmics didn't give a flying ? about M day or the fact that there are people on Earth running around creating pocket universes or creating multiversal ripples. Only the Earth characters are awed by those things.
why would they care about M day though? It affected a tiny fraction of the universe. It had no bearing on anything. And I wouldn't quite say that only Earthlings are in awe of things such as pocket universes..that's basically why the Celestials came to Franklin in the first place..because he possessed power that rivaled their own. -
@jaxn I believe you stated that Thanos wasn't doing enough for LT to feel the need to pass judgement. Well that's not true...he just didn't feel Thanos was out of line. You feel me. Thanos was wrecking ? . The gems are more powerful than most ? .
Celestials hollered at Franklin because he saved every with his pocket universe he didn't just have one. He used it with purpose. I would agree though its an impressive feat for warpers its impressive beyond just Earth -
The Celestials hollering at Franklin for anything isn't a good example since Franklin and mutants in general are supposed to be the fruits of Celestial experimentation.
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evoljeanyes wrote: »@jaxn I believe you stated that Thanos wasn't doing enough for LT to feel the need to pass judgement. Well that's not true...he just didn't feel Thanos was out of line. You feel me. Thanos was wrecking ? . The gems are more powerful than most ? .
Celestials hollered at Franklin because he saved every with his pocket universe he didn't just have one. He used it with purpose. I would agree though its an impressive feat for warpers its impressive beyond just Earth
my point still stands though, the LT didn't pass judgement on Thanos..in other words he wasn't too concerned about what Thanos was doing. If you can point out where in IG arc the LT decided to step in and actually judge Thanos I will happily concede the point. Being the LT, he's aware of everything that goes on though. Celestials came to Franklin because they knew how powerful he was
