Global poll: America is the most hostile country in the world

2

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  • Jik Jikkles
    Jik Jikkles Members Posts: 95 ✭✭
    http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/patrick-goodenough/and-country-posing-greatest-threat-peace-2013-ends

    And The Country Posing The Greatest Threat to Peace as 2013 Ends is …
    December 31, 2013 - 1:03 AM

    (CNSNews.com) – The past year witnessed bloodshed in Syria and Iraq, turmoil in Egypt, anarchy in Central Africa, threats by a nuclear-armed North Korea and Chinese military posturing, but as 2013 ends a global poll finds that the country seen as representing the greatest threat to peace today is ... the United States.

    Not only did the U.S. top the list with an aggregate of 24 percent, but the runner-up threat country, Pakistan, was way behind at eight percent. China was third at six percent, followed by North Korea, Iran and Israel at five percent each.

    The survey of opinions across 65 countries by pollster Win/Gallup International recorded some of the strongest anti-American sentiment, predictably, in countries widely regarded as rivals, led by Russia (where 54 percent of respondents said the U.S. was the greatest threat to peace) and China (49 percent).

    But the view that the U.S. poses the greatest threat to peace was also strongly held in some purported U.S. allies – such as NATO partners Greece and Turkey (45 percent each), and Pakistan (44 percent),
    which is also a top recipient of U.S. aid.

    --Damn not good

    I mean there's no money in peace. do I agree? no but were to smart for our own good & I think that gets in the way alot when it comes to how we treat others who are different. idk just my 2 cents
  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    Good points about the espionage, yes other nations do it. But the way America spied on others is beyond outrageous, even for espionage.
    not really. first off, consider the fact that every other nation would do it if they could, so complaining about it on that level is straight ? . second, hacking emails worldwide? China has done this ? beyond a doubt, and i have no reason to suspect Russia or anyone else hasn't. we're just talking about distinctions in efficiency and scale, so MAYBE that "imagine if the Russians" theory could be scaled back a little.

    again, wrong is wrong; this is, however, a poor thing to specifically fault the US for
    Regarding the deaths of civilians in Iraq, well, we did create the circumstances that led to roughly one million civilians who have been killed over there.
    first off, i bet that's the HIGH estimate for some reason. second, that means we, you know, didn't actually do the killing. maybe when we're talking about aggression we could at least bash the people LITERALLY doing the killing as much as the US?
    The war in Iraq has made America look like a bloodthirsty empire hellbent on taking resources by force, same with the neverending war in Afghanistan.
    except for the part where we're out of Iraq and no one can make an argument what all these "resources" we now control are?
    You call the imperialist war in Vietnam moral, a war that killed about 400,000 civilians, all for the sake of stopping the spread of communism?
    seems a little overstated given the particular circumstances of the war...

  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2014
    janklow wrote: »
    Good points about the espionage, yes other nations do it. But the way America spied on others is beyond outrageous, even for espionage.
    not really. first off, consider the fact that every other nation would do it if they could, so complaining about it on that level is straight ? . second, hacking emails worldwide? China has done this ? beyond a doubt, and i have no reason to suspect Russia or anyone else hasn't. we're just talking about distinctions in efficiency and scale, so MAYBE that "imagine if the Russians" theory could be scaled back a little.

    again, wrong is wrong; this is, however, a poor thing to specifically fault the US for
    Regarding the deaths of civilians in Iraq, well, we did create the circumstances that led to roughly one million civilians who have been killed over there.
    first off, i bet that's the HIGH estimate for some reason. second, that means we, you know, didn't actually do the killing. maybe when we're talking about aggression we could at least bash the people LITERALLY doing the killing as much as the US?
    The war in Iraq has made America look like a bloodthirsty empire hellbent on taking resources by force, same with the neverending war in Afghanistan.
    except for the part where we're out of Iraq and no one can make an argument what all these "resources" we now control are?
    You call the imperialist war in Vietnam moral, a war that killed about 400,000 civilians, all for the sake of stopping the spread of communism?
    seems a little overstated given the particular circumstances of the war...

    America invaded Iraq for several reasons to be fair, and yes it wasn't all about resources. There are links out there that show American companies have done very well in Iraq since the invasion, and many observers have noted Saddam did not want to use the dollar to do trades anymore....the same thing Gaddafi was looking into doing. Both were taken out and either way, the war in Iraq has been ? and a complete disaster. America created the building blocks to the absolute chaos going on in Iraq right now. Has America killed all of those one million civilians in Iraq, no. But it killed over one hundred thousand and created the conditions that has allowed the deaths of many more, a despicable stain on America's record.

    Al-Qaeda and other groups in Iraq deserve blame too for the chaos, but again, America set up the building blocks of chaos. Destroying tons of homes and people will cause a nation to turn chaotic, something America has a long track record of.

    Regarding Vietnam, what was the war fought for then?

  • Jabu_Rule
    Jabu_Rule Members Posts: 5,993 ✭✭✭✭✭
    janklow wrote: »
    Good points about the espionage, yes other nations do it. But the way America spied on others is beyond outrageous, even for espionage.
    not really. first off, consider the fact that every other nation would do it if they could, so complaining about it on that level is straight ? . second, hacking emails worldwide? China has done this ? beyond a doubt, and i have no reason to suspect Russia or anyone else hasn't. we're just talking about distinctions in efficiency and scale, so MAYBE that "imagine if the Russians" theory could be scaled back a little.

    again, wrong is wrong; this is, however, a poor thing to specifically fault the US for
    Regarding the deaths of civilians in Iraq, well, we did create the circumstances that led to roughly one million civilians who have been killed over there.
    first off, i bet that's the HIGH estimate for some reason. second, that means we, you know, didn't actually do the killing. maybe when we're talking about aggression we could at least bash the people LITERALLY doing the killing as much as the US?
    The war in Iraq has made America look like a bloodthirsty empire hellbent on taking resources by force, same with the neverending war in Afghanistan.
    except for the part where we're out of Iraq and no one can make an argument what all these "resources" we now control are?
    You call the imperialist war in Vietnam moral, a war that killed about 400,000 civilians, all for the sake of stopping the spread of communism?
    seems a little overstated given the particular circumstances of the war...

    America invaded Iraq for several reasons to be fair, and yes it wasn't all about resources. There are links out there that show American companies have done very well in Iraq since the invasion, and many observers have noted Saddam did not want to use the dollar to do trades anymore....the same thing Gaddafi was looking into doing. Both were taken out and either way, the war in Iraq has been ? and a complete disaster. America created the building blocks to the absolute chaos going on in Iraq right now. Has America killed all of those one million civilians in Iraq, no. But it killed over one hundred thousand and created the conditions that has allowed the deaths of many more, a despicable stain on America's record.

    Al-Qaeda and other groups in Iraq deserve blame too for the chaos, but again, America set up the building blocks of chaos. Destroying tons of homes and people will cause a nation to turn chaotic, something America has a long track record of.

    Regarding Vietnam, what was the war fought for then?

    Maybe you don't realize this, but America and Russia were fighting a proxy war in may countries at the time. It was a war extended from WWII and before when Russia wanted to exercise their ideology on the world stage and America wasn't down with that. Basically, two titans trying their best to ensure their survival by any means regardless of morality. Russia is anything but innocent in that situation as they supplied the Vietnamese and hyped them to fight the same as Korea and many other places around the globe. The very fact that Russia was in South America and then Cuba and tried to send nukes there made America nervous. The US was not innocent either because we had nukes in places in Europe, but those countries were down with the cause for plausible reasons post ww2 even though it was to keep Russia under raps. As much as ideology and propaganda was at play, you can't hide the fact that every country under the USSR was ? up and those that aligned with America did well. We are still in Japan since ww2, why is Afghanistan less of a candidate to be rebuilt regardless of an active enemies opinion? They struck first regardless of the United States covert action. Plausible deniability is always the game and Afghanistan played the wrong hand support Osama and then foolishly asking for evidence. Iraq is not Afghanistan and it would have been handled better if we never went into Iraq in the first place.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2014
    FuriousOne wrote: »
    janklow wrote: »
    Good points about the espionage, yes other nations do it. But the way America spied on others is beyond outrageous, even for espionage.
    not really. first off, consider the fact that every other nation would do it if they could, so complaining about it on that level is straight ? . second, hacking emails worldwide? China has done this ? beyond a doubt, and i have no reason to suspect Russia or anyone else hasn't. we're just talking about distinctions in efficiency and scale, so MAYBE that "imagine if the Russians" theory could be scaled back a little.

    again, wrong is wrong; this is, however, a poor thing to specifically fault the US for
    Regarding the deaths of civilians in Iraq, well, we did create the circumstances that led to roughly one million civilians who have been killed over there.
    first off, i bet that's the HIGH estimate for some reason. second, that means we, you know, didn't actually do the killing. maybe when we're talking about aggression we could at least bash the people LITERALLY doing the killing as much as the US?
    The war in Iraq has made America look like a bloodthirsty empire hellbent on taking resources by force, same with the neverending war in Afghanistan.
    except for the part where we're out of Iraq and no one can make an argument what all these "resources" we now control are?
    You call the imperialist war in Vietnam moral, a war that killed about 400,000 civilians, all for the sake of stopping the spread of communism?
    seems a little overstated given the particular circumstances of the war...

    America invaded Iraq for several reasons to be fair, and yes it wasn't all about resources. There are links out there that show American companies have done very well in Iraq since the invasion, and many observers have noted Saddam did not want to use the dollar to do trades anymore....the same thing Gaddafi was looking into doing. Both were taken out and either way, the war in Iraq has been ? and a complete disaster. America created the building blocks to the absolute chaos going on in Iraq right now. Has America killed all of those one million civilians in Iraq, no. But it killed over one hundred thousand and created the conditions that has allowed the deaths of many more, a despicable stain on America's record.

    Al-Qaeda and other groups in Iraq deserve blame too for the chaos, but again, America set up the building blocks of chaos. Destroying tons of homes and people will cause a nation to turn chaotic, something America has a long track record of.

    Regarding Vietnam, what was the war fought for then?

    Maybe you don't realize this, but America and Russia were fighting a proxy war in may countries at the time. It was a war extended from WWII and before when Russia wanted to exercise their ideology on the world stage and America wasn't down with that. Basically, two titans trying their best to ensure their survival by any means regardless of morality. Russia is anything but innocent in that situation as they supplied the Vietnamese and hyped them to fight the same as Korea and many other places around the globe. The very fact that Russia was in South America and then Cuba and tried to send nukes there made America nervous. The US was not innocent either because we had nukes in places in Europe, but those countries were down with the cause for plausible reasons post ww2 even though it was to keep Russia under raps. As much as ideology and propaganda was at play, you can't hide the fact that every country under the USSR was ? up and those that aligned with America did well. We are still in Japan since ww2, why is Afghanistan less of a candidate to be rebuilt regardless of an active enemies opinion? They struck first regardless of the United States covert action. Plausible deniability is always the game and Afghanistan played the wrong hand support Osama and then foolishly asking for evidence. Iraq is not Afghanistan and it would have been handled better if we never went into Iraq in the first place.

    Good post, yes I'm aware Russia was spreading its web across many places so America wanted to counteract to check its aggression or influence. With that being said, America still had no business getting involved in Vietnam and our involvement there created much more chaos then positive. Most Americans were against the war in the 70s and it's why Nixon pulled out.

    I supported the war in Afghanistan when it first started but we have definitely overstayed our welcome. Nothing good is gonna come out of there, we've created too much bad blood killing many civilians, look at how much the Afghan president talks ? about America. He compared America to Satan several times last year. I agree though Afghanistan would have been better handled if it wasn't for Iraq, but sending those extra troops in 2010 was a disaster and a waste of time. When America pulls out, the Taliban will be in control in no time, thanks to all the bad blood we've caused. The war was winnable until our lack of moral authority destroyed our respectability in the eyes of our enemies. America's moral authority is at zero now, best option is to get our troops out of the Middle East and take care of home now.

  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    America invaded Iraq for several reasons to be fair, and yes it wasn't all about resources. There are links out there that show American companies have done very well in Iraq since the invasion-
    i have no doubt about this, but the question i'd ask is, are we talking companies that profited off the war directly, or companies that have profited because the war has given them access to resources? i mean, it's splitting hairs a little, i suppose.
    -and many observers have noted Saddam did not want to use the dollar to do trades anymore....the same thing Gaddafi was looking into doing.
    honestly, this notion --which comes up whenever a dictator is deposed, it seems-- strikes me as ? CONSPIRACY bait every time it does. i can't help it.
    Has America killed all of those one million civilians in Iraq, no. But it killed over one hundred thousand and created the conditions that has allowed the deaths of many more, a despicable stain on America's record.
    all i'm saying is that we're not talking about the US going into Iraq and literally killing ONE MILLION PEOPLE, so we shouldn't act as such. frankly --and we don't agree, maybe-- i primarily blame whoever's actually killing people. it's not like anyone has a moral obligation to shoot civilians because the US ? a country's infrastructure up.
    Regarding Vietnam, what was the war fought for then?
    defending an allied nation that had been attacked in addition to all the communism stuff.

    also note that Nixon didn't just pull out, he signed a treaty with North Vietnam that essentially left things as they were when we entered: two sovereign nations, blah blah blah. fighting the war was never going to fix that country's political problems.
  • Jabu_Rule
    Jabu_Rule Members Posts: 5,993 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2014
    FuriousOne wrote: »
    janklow wrote: »
    Good points about the espionage, yes other nations do it. But the way America spied on others is beyond outrageous, even for espionage.
    not really. first off, consider the fact that every other nation would do it if they could, so complaining about it on that level is straight ? . second, hacking emails worldwide? China has done this ? beyond a doubt, and i have no reason to suspect Russia or anyone else hasn't. we're just talking about distinctions in efficiency and scale, so MAYBE that "imagine if the Russians" theory could be scaled back a little.

    again, wrong is wrong; this is, however, a poor thing to specifically fault the US for
    Regarding the deaths of civilians in Iraq, well, we did create the circumstances that led to roughly one million civilians who have been killed over there.
    first off, i bet that's the HIGH estimate for some reason. second, that means we, you know, didn't actually do the killing. maybe when we're talking about aggression we could at least bash the people LITERALLY doing the killing as much as the US?
    The war in Iraq has made America look like a bloodthirsty empire hellbent on taking resources by force, same with the neverending war in Afghanistan.
    except for the part where we're out of Iraq and no one can make an argument what all these "resources" we now control are?
    You call the imperialist war in Vietnam moral, a war that killed about 400,000 civilians, all for the sake of stopping the spread of communism?
    seems a little overstated given the particular circumstances of the war...

    America invaded Iraq for several reasons to be fair, and yes it wasn't all about resources. There are links out there that show American companies have done very well in Iraq since the invasion, and many observers have noted Saddam did not want to use the dollar to do trades anymore....the same thing Gaddafi was looking into doing. Both were taken out and either way, the war in Iraq has been ? and a complete disaster. America created the building blocks to the absolute chaos going on in Iraq right now. Has America killed all of those one million civilians in Iraq, no. But it killed over one hundred thousand and created the conditions that has allowed the deaths of many more, a despicable stain on America's record.

    Al-Qaeda and other groups in Iraq deserve blame too for the chaos, but again, America set up the building blocks of chaos. Destroying tons of homes and people will cause a nation to turn chaotic, something America has a long track record of.

    Regarding Vietnam, what was the war fought for then?

    Maybe you don't realize this, but America and Russia were fighting a proxy war in may countries at the time. It was a war extended from WWII and before when Russia wanted to exercise their ideology on the world stage and America wasn't down with that. Basically, two titans trying their best to ensure their survival by any means regardless of morality. Russia is anything but innocent in that situation as they supplied the Vietnamese and hyped them to fight the same as Korea and many other places around the globe. The very fact that Russia was in South America and then Cuba and tried to send nukes there made America nervous. The US was not innocent either because we had nukes in places in Europe, but those countries were down with the cause for plausible reasons post ww2 even though it was to keep Russia under raps. As much as ideology and propaganda was at play, you can't hide the fact that every country under the USSR was ? up and those that aligned with America did well. We are still in Japan since ww2, why is Afghanistan less of a candidate to be rebuilt regardless of an active enemies opinion? They struck first regardless of the United States covert action. Plausible deniability is always the game and Afghanistan played the wrong hand support Osama and then foolishly asking for evidence. Iraq is not Afghanistan and it would have been handled better if we never went into Iraq in the first place.

    Good post, yes I'm aware Russia was spreading its web across many places so America wanted to counteract to check its aggression or influence. With that being said, America still had no business getting involved in Vietnam and our involvement there created much more chaos then positive. Most Americans were against the war in the 70s and it's why Nixon pulled out.

    I supported the war in Afghanistan when it first started but we have definitely overstayed our welcome. Nothing good is gonna come out of there, we've created too much bad blood killing many civilians, look at how much the Afghan president talks ? about America. He compared America to Satan several times last year. I agree though Afghanistan would have been better handled if it wasn't for Iraq, but sending those extra troops in 2010 was a disaster and a waste of time. When America pulls out, the Taliban will be in control in no time, thanks to all the bad blood we've caused. The war was winnable until our lack of moral authority destroyed our respectability in the eyes of our enemies. America's moral authority is at zero now, best option is to get our troops out of the Middle East and take care of home now.

    Vietnam was no different from any other war we fought against Russia. It was just the bloodiest but Russia still expended their capital and it ? them in the end. That was the point as horrid as it was. Still, I'd rather not live on a USSR proxy state. There was also a treaty with France which we took serious because treaties are what keeps allies. They did save our ? a number of times which is why there is a United States. Still keeping communism at bay was the entire cause even though it failed, you can blame them for trying when it worked in Korea and other places. Nixon ? up the war before he pulled out. He actually destroyed any chance of peace in order to get elected. That man was a two faced snake oil salesman who only did things to preserve his power.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21768668
    Declassified tapes of President Lyndon Johnson's telephone calls provide a fresh insight into his world. Among the revelations - he planned a dramatic entry into the 1968 Democratic Convention to re-join the presidential race. And he caught Richard Nixon sabotaging the Vietnam peace talks... but said nothing.

    Who gives a damn about Moral authority when you are attacked openly with strategic cause to destroy our financial and military capabilities. All that ? goes out the window. If it wasn't for the world keeping tabs, they would have gotten the Japan treatment. Like i said, we've been there since ww2 and they really hated us. They ok now. We are rebuilding basically because we destroyed it and the president there is just pandering to keep the people on his side to look tough. If the Taliban will take over as soon as we leave, what makes you think behind closed doors that guy really wants us to leave. We are creating enough stability to give that idiot a platform to mouth off.
  • The Lonious Monk
    The Lonious Monk Members Posts: 26,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    To be fair, an entity in a position of power will always look more aggressive than those that lack power. The U.S. is like the head of a police force. The task to keep other countries in line basically falls on us to some degree. That is not wholly our doing either. Other countries basically look at us as if it's our responsibility. When it's your role to keep others in line, you're going to look more aggressive because you're going to have to take a stance that others don't.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2014
    Furious One,

    Moral authority is ALWAYS important when fighting an enemy though. If America doesn't have moral authority, and we don't, why would the Taliban or Al-Qaeda take us seriously? Why would they surrender to an enemy that is hated worldwide? We can't keep rebuilding a nation like Afghanistan for 12 years or longer, we haven't gotten much out of it, aside from more hatred in the Middle East and a more determined enemy. For all the fighting we've done there and all the bloodshed, Karzai has almost no power outside the capital of Kabul lol. It's an embarrassment. With that being said, even if Karzai really wants us to stay there, he's publicly calling America Satan and devils to not just his people, he's also telling this to world reporters. He obviously is not grateful for everything America is doing (likely because so many innocent civilians are being killed by Americans or he's scared of a Taliban come back) so it's time to come home and stop being looked upon as hostile invaders.

    Japan is not Afghanistan, because during WW2, America had moral authority (and the atom bomb). America obviously won't use an atom bomb in Afghanistan.....America ruined its moral authority after Iraq and it's constant support of apartheid in Israel. Bombs and bullets will not fix this situation, only the people of Afghanistan can. America owes 17 trillion in debt and all we seem to get from these wars is MORE debt and more hatred.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2014
    To be fair, an entity in a position of power will always look more aggressive than those that lack power. The U.S. is like the head of a police force. The task to keep other countries in line basically falls on us to some degree. That is not wholly our doing either. Other countries basically look at us as if it's our responsibility. When it's your role to keep others in line, you're going to look more aggressive because you're going to have to take a stance that others don't.

    I would agree except the world really DOESN'T want us to keep invading this land or that land anymore. The Al-Qaeda linked Syrian rebels wanted us to fight for them, true, and so does Israel in Iran, but most people worldwide want America to end its constant aggression and mind its own business. The almost weekly protests against America in the Middle East and the poll show what I mean. And America doesn't have to take a violent stance so often, America needs to mind its own home instead of being so quick to do the ? work of others. Constant warmongering has gotten us more debt, more dead American soldiers and more future Osama Bin Ladens. I can put up links showing terrorists and anti-Americanism has grown during the past 5 years if you want me to.......

    Never forget, more money spent overseas means less money taking care of home.
  • Soloman_The_Wise
    Soloman_The_Wise Members Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭✭✭
    in politics just like the rest of life what is said in public is rarely the same behind closed doors...
  • Jabu_Rule
    Jabu_Rule Members Posts: 5,993 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2014
    Furious One,

    Moral authority is ALWAYS important when fighting an enemy though. If America doesn't have moral authority, and we don't, why would the Taliban or Al-Qaeda take us seriously? Why would they surrender to an enemy that is hated worldwide? We can't keep rebuilding a nation like Afghanistan for 12 years or longer, we haven't gotten much out of it, aside from more hatred in the Middle East and a more determined enemy. For all the fighting we've done there and all the bloodshed, Karzai has almost no power outside the capital of Kabul lol. It's an embarrassment. With that being said, even if Karzai really wants us to stay there, he's publicly calling America Satan and devils to not just his people, he's also telling this to world reporters. He obviously is not grateful for everything America is doing (likely because so many innocent civilians are being killed by Americans or he's scared of a Taliban come back) so it's time to come home and stop being looked upon as hostile invaders.

    Japan is not Afghanistan, because during WW2, America had moral authority (and the atom bomb). America obviously won't use an atom bomb in Afghanistan.....America ruined its moral authority after Iraq and it's constant support of apartheid in Israel. Bombs and bullets will not fix this situation, only the people of Afghanistan can. America owes 17 trillion in debt and all we seem to get from these wars is MORE debt and more hatred.

    That's ? . How did America have moral authority when they were practicing Jim Crow, lynching blacks, and putting the Japanese in an interment camps. Even still, blacks were willing to fight and die for something that was a hell of a lot better (or had the potential to be better) then what the ? 's was offering. You gotta take your wins where you can get them and align with the lesser evil to set yourself up for a better potential outcome for your people. Matterfact, America didn't give a ? about the Jews dieing, it was all about stopping ? before the Russians could. I wasn't even talking about the atom bomb. If you look at what we did to Japan (fire bombing) before we got to that point, you would know how hard America can go in on it's perceived enemies. We had to decimate them to stop them. It had nothing to do with Morals. It had everything to do with might. The bottom line is Japan attacked us and so did the people who were harbored in Afghanistan. These people are diehard and they aren't just attacking America. Handling them with kid gloves and pursuing peace isn't going to stop a people who want their religion to rule the earth. This doesn't include everyone over there though and it makes no sense to leave them to plot an plan our destruction no matter who started it.
  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    Moral authority is ALWAYS important when fighting an enemy though. If America doesn't have moral authority, and we don't, why would the Taliban or Al-Qaeda take us seriously?
    you know, don't think the USSR had the moral authority in invading Afghanistan... but the Afghans sure as ? had to take their tanks and bombs and other martial assets seriously.

    i mean, i get your point but still
    America ruined its moral authority after Iraq and it's constant support of apartheid in Israel.
    you MIGHT want to pump the brakes there a little because the US has obviously been in situations where they had the moral authority --say, the commencement of hostilities in Afghanistan which even you admit you supported at the time-- after supporting Israel.

    look, i get that you HATE Israel but it might be better to just argue how Afghanistan is ? up on its own merits?
    I would agree except the world really DOESN'T want us to keep invading this land or that land anymore. The Al-Qaeda linked Syrian rebels wanted us to fight for them, true, and so does Israel in Iran, but most people worldwide want America to end its constant aggression and mind its own business.
    actually, what you should take away from this is that people worldwide want America to blow ? up when it's what they want blown up. otherwise, OUTRAGE
  • allanwright
    allanwright Members Posts: 1
    edited January 2014
    wow... so it's only between china and the us, we're quite doomed here

    tripp
  • Jabu_Rule
    Jabu_Rule Members Posts: 5,993 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2014
    Syria's Rebels' Fight With Al Qaeda Group Spreads

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/06/syrian-rebels-fight-al-qaeda_n_4550623.html
    BEIRUT (AP) — Syrian rebels surrounded a compound held by al-Qaida-linked fighters and freed at least 50 people from a nearby prison Monday as clashes between rival factions in the country's northern provinces spread to the largest city controlled by the opposition.

    The rebel-on-rebel fighting in Raqqa — a stronghold of the al-Qaida-linked group known as the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant — reflects a widening war within a war in Syria, this one against radical extremists. It also adds yet another layer of complexity to the broader Syrian conflict less than three weeks ahead of a planned international peace conference to try to broker a political solution to the civil war.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    in politics just like the rest of life what is said in public is rarely the same behind closed doors...

    True, although I take pride in that I'm not afraid to state my opinions in public. With the exception of a few, I'm lucky my opinions are shared by most these days
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2014
    FuriousOne wrote: »
    Furious One,

    Moral authority is ALWAYS important when fighting an enemy though. If America doesn't have moral authority, and we don't, why would the Taliban or Al-Qaeda take us seriously? Why would they surrender to an enemy that is hated worldwide? We can't keep rebuilding a nation like Afghanistan for 12 years or longer, we haven't gotten much out of it, aside from more hatred in the Middle East and a more determined enemy. For all the fighting we've done there and all the bloodshed, Karzai has almost no power outside the capital of Kabul lol. It's an embarrassment. With that being said, even if Karzai really wants us to stay there, he's publicly calling America Satan and devils to not just his people, he's also telling this to world reporters. He obviously is not grateful for everything America is doing (likely because so many innocent civilians are being killed by Americans or he's scared of a Taliban come back) so it's time to come home and stop being looked upon as hostile invaders.

    Japan is not Afghanistan, because during WW2, America had moral authority (and the atom bomb). America obviously won't use an atom bomb in Afghanistan.....America ruined its moral authority after Iraq and it's constant support of apartheid in Israel. Bombs and bullets will not fix this situation, only the people of Afghanistan can. America owes 17 trillion in debt and all we seem to get from these wars is MORE debt and more hatred.

    That's ? . How did America have moral authority when they were practicing Jim Crow, lynching blacks, and putting the Japanese in an interment camps. Even still, blacks were willing to fight and die for something that was a hell of a lot better (or had the potential to be better) then what the ? 's was offering. You gotta take your wins where you can get them and align with the lesser evil to set yourself up for a better potential outcome for your people. Matterfact, America didn't give a ? about the Jews dieing, it was all about stopping ? before the Russians could. I wasn't even talking about the atom bomb. If you look at what we did to Japan (fire bombing) before we got to that point, you would know how hard America can go in on it's perceived enemies. We had to decimate them to stop them. It had nothing to do with Morals. It had everything to do with might. The bottom line is Japan attacked us and so did the people who were harbored in Afghanistan. These people are diehard and they aren't just attacking America. Handling them with kid gloves and pursuing peace isn't going to stop a people who want their religion to rule the earth. This doesn't include everyone over there though and it makes no sense to leave them to plot an plan our destruction no matter who started it.

    Might did win the war in Japan and Germany, but America still had moral authority against its ENEMIES. It's one of the main reasons why you didn't see the guerrilla warfare there that's ongoing in Iraq and Afghanistan all the time, the population of Japan and Germany respected the moral authority of America IN COMPARISON to the Nazis and Japanese empires who enslaved and slaughtered millions. Sun Tzu said one of the keys to ending a war is for the winning side to have moral authority in comparison to its enemies. Specifically, the moral RESPECT of the enemy. You can disagree if you wish, but my wider point is that few enemies will completely surrender to an enemy they don't respect.

    As far as the radical Muslims who do want their religion to rule the earth, yes they are a problem and they have to be put down. But staying in neverending wars that are bankrupting America's future is no way to solve the problem. Ask yourself, why does America have to do so much of this fighting? Other nations can't fight to stop radical Muslims?? I don't mind America helping other nations fight radicalism but not with our troops, enough is enough and most Americans agree with me. There has to be more efficient ways to combat terror then blowing two billion a week in Afghanistan lol.....I don't see Germany or Switzerland doing that, and both nations are in much better financial shape then America (debt wise). Getting to the root causes of terrorism is much more cost effective.......
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2014
    wow... so it's only between china and the us, we're quite doomed here.

    Nah there's hope I think. If America stops acting like a wild cowboy with a serial killer streak, and improves its foreign policy, there's a great chance America can become less hated worldwide. Other nations have problems with terrorism but everyone notices America is spending so much on defense and war because its foreign policy has created legions of enemies........the American people fought back against war in Syria, and hopefully, fight back against any attempt to bomb Iran in the future.
  • Jabu_Rule
    Jabu_Rule Members Posts: 5,993 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2014
    FuriousOne wrote: »
    Furious One,

    Moral authority is ALWAYS important when fighting an enemy though. If America doesn't have moral authority, and we don't, why would the Taliban or Al-Qaeda take us seriously? Why would they surrender to an enemy that is hated worldwide? We can't keep rebuilding a nation like Afghanistan for 12 years or longer, we haven't gotten much out of it, aside from more hatred in the Middle East and a more determined enemy. For all the fighting we've done there and all the bloodshed, Karzai has almost no power outside the capital of Kabul lol. It's an embarrassment. With that being said, even if Karzai really wants us to stay there, he's publicly calling America Satan and devils to not just his people, he's also telling this to world reporters. He obviously is not grateful for everything America is doing (likely because so many innocent civilians are being killed by Americans or he's scared of a Taliban come back) so it's time to come home and stop being looked upon as hostile invaders.

    Japan is not Afghanistan, because during WW2, America had moral authority (and the atom bomb). America obviously won't use an atom bomb in Afghanistan.....America ruined its moral authority after Iraq and it's constant support of apartheid in Israel. Bombs and bullets will not fix this situation, only the people of Afghanistan can. America owes 17 trillion in debt and all we seem to get from these wars is MORE debt and more hatred.

    That's ? . How did America have moral authority when they were practicing Jim Crow, lynching blacks, and putting the Japanese in an interment camps. Even still, blacks were willing to fight and die for something that was a hell of a lot better (or had the potential to be better) then what the ? 's was offering. You gotta take your wins where you can get them and align with the lesser evil to set yourself up for a better potential outcome for your people. Matterfact, America didn't give a ? about the Jews dieing, it was all about stopping ? before the Russians could. I wasn't even talking about the atom bomb. If you look at what we did to Japan (fire bombing) before we got to that point, you would know how hard America can go in on it's perceived enemies. We had to decimate them to stop them. It had nothing to do with Morals. It had everything to do with might. The bottom line is Japan attacked us and so did the people who were harbored in Afghanistan. These people are diehard and they aren't just attacking America. Handling them with kid gloves and pursuing peace isn't going to stop a people who want their religion to rule the earth. This doesn't include everyone over there though and it makes no sense to leave them to plot an plan our destruction no matter who started it.

    Might did win the war in Japan and Germany, but America still had moral authority against its ENEMIES. It's one of the main reasons why you didn't see the guerrilla warfare there that's ongoing in Iraq and Afghanistan all the time, the population of Japan and Germany respected the moral authority of America IN COMPARISON to the Nazis and Japanese empires who enslaved and slaughtered millions. Sun Tzu said one of the keys to ending a war is for the winning side to have moral authority in comparison to its enemies. Specifically, the moral RESPECT of the enemy. You can disagree if you wish, but my wider point is that few enemies will completely surrender to an enemy they don't respect.

    As far as the radical Muslims who do want their religion to rule the earth, yes they are a problem and they have to be put down. But staying in neverending wars that are bankrupting America's future is no way to solve the problem. Ask yourself, why does America have to do so much of this fighting? Other nations can't fight to stop radical Muslims?? I don't mind America helping other nations fight radicalism but not with our troops, enough is enough and most Americans agree with me. There has to be more efficient ways to combat terror then blowing two billion a week in Afghanistan lol.....I don't see Germany or Switzerland doing that, and both nations are in much better financial shape then America (debt wise). Getting to the root causes of terrorism is much more cost effective.......

    There actually was gorilla warfare in Japan but since most of them committed suicide and got massacred to the last man, there wasn't much of an effort. The same can be said for Germany being that most of the soldiers were sent to the front and only kids were left to fight. ? killed himself rather then end the war honorably. The rest been wanted to get rid of ? or there wasn't much of an infrastructure left to fight for. There was no Moral respect. There was an understanding that they lost because it was all to obvious. Like i said, with the ? going on in America, they didn't have a moral ground to stand on. ? propaganda actually focused on this a lot. America had millions in servitude and less then 100 years before, millions enslaved and thousands of natives slaughtered. Time doesn't erase that impact. For someone always claiming moral high ground, you do a lot to overlook these facts. I'm starting to think that you're a ? talking about taking America back to the good times when it was Moral. When was that?

    What sort of respect do you expect if you just massacred millions and dropped nukes that poisoned millions more. They quit because they didn't want to see their homeland erased. It was going to come to that until more level heads prevailed. America went into a recession from internal fuckery like shady housing practices. How you gonna say the Muslim extremist have to be put down and complain about never ending wars? We been giving them that light work which is why they been around so long. What's your plan? Are you saying war is the only thing going on in Afghanistan? We gave them the first government they had since the lost of their monarchs. Their women can learn and change minds without getting acid burned. What do you want to do to solve the issue exactly other then cut tail and run? That is the only war we should be fighting. That dropped our towers and we dropped their country. Simple as that. If they get overran because we leave when they weren't ready (unlike iraq they didn't have a military or government structure previously) then those soldiers died in vain and we back to square one going in because they harboring more people who attack us.
  • The Lonious Monk
    The Lonious Monk Members Posts: 26,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    To be fair, an entity in a position of power will always look more aggressive than those that lack power. The U.S. is like the head of a police force. The task to keep other countries in line basically falls on us to some degree. That is not wholly our doing either. Other countries basically look at us as if it's our responsibility. When it's your role to keep others in line, you're going to look more aggressive because you're going to have to take a stance that others don't.

    I would agree except the world really DOESN'T want us to keep invading this land or that land anymore. The Al-Qaeda linked Syrian rebels wanted us to fight for them, true, and so does Israel in Iran, but most people worldwide want America to end its constant aggression and mind its own business. The almost weekly protests against America in the Middle East and the poll show what I mean. And America doesn't have to take a violent stance so often, America needs to mind its own home instead of being so quick to do the ? work of others. Constant warmongering has gotten us more debt, more dead American soldiers and more future Osama Bin Ladens. I can put up links showing terrorists and anti-Americanism has grown during the past 5 years if you want me to.......

    Never forget, more money spent overseas means less money taking care of home.

    We've gotten to the point where we've pushed things too far, but it wasn't always like that.

  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2014
    Furiousone,


    I never once said America was a "moral" country, what I did say though was that America had moral authority over its enemies at the time, Japan and Germany. We all obviously know of the many crimes America has been guilty of throughout history, especially as a Black man. America though didn't commit the same crimes ? Germany and Japan did during the 1940s. And either way, I can respect a difference of opinion on the moral authority America had against its ENEMIES during WW2. You also seem to forget Japan bombed America first, with Germany wrecking havoc in Europe but whatever. We won't agree on moral authority here, although you should really read what Sun Tzu had to say about moral authority in wartime.

    As far as Afghanistan, YES it is time to cut our losses and get out of there. I know you don't like polls lately because poll after poll shows your opinions on many subjects are unpopular as ? , but most Americans want us out of Afghanistan now. There's a reason for that. If the threat of terrorism is so strong, then surely another nation can spend two billion dollars a week in Afghanistan right? I mean after all, every nation has to spend two billion dollars a week to protect itself from terror lol......

    I don't want American soldiers dying in vain either but the problem, as I've always said, is that America overstayed its welcome in Afghanistan. How long do you think America should be spending two billion dollars a week in Afghanistan? Until the year 3055? We're only creating more problems staying over there, it's a perfect recruitment tool for terrorists at this point. The longer we stay, the more hatred America is building in that part of the world. If you think bombing a Middle Eastern nation for 12 years is the way to create less terrorism in that part of the world, I have a ? Cheney and John Mccain poster I wana send to you. Cuz those are the crackas you sound like right now.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    To be fair, an entity in a position of power will always look more aggressive than those that lack power. The U.S. is like the head of a police force. The task to keep other countries in line basically falls on us to some degree. That is not wholly our doing either. Other countries basically look at us as if it's our responsibility. When it's your role to keep others in line, you're going to look more aggressive because you're going to have to take a stance that others don't.

    I would agree except the world really DOESN'T want us to keep invading this land or that land anymore. The Al-Qaeda linked Syrian rebels wanted us to fight for them, true, and so does Israel in Iran, but most people worldwide want America to end its constant aggression and mind its own business. The almost weekly protests against America in the Middle East and the poll show what I mean. And America doesn't have to take a violent stance so often, America needs to mind its own home instead of being so quick to do the ? work of others. Constant warmongering has gotten us more debt, more dead American soldiers and more future Osama Bin Ladens. I can put up links showing terrorists and anti-Americanism has grown during the past 5 years if you want me to.......

    Never forget, more money spent overseas means less money taking care of home.

    We've gotten to the point where we've pushed things too far, but it wasn't always like that.

    I agree and I want America to return to those days, like the 90s, back when America (for the most part) took care of home. That's what people are yearning for.
  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    edited January 2014
    As far as the radical Muslims who do want their religion to rule the earth, yes they are a problem and they have to be put down. But staying in neverending wars that are bankrupting America's future is no way to solve the problem. Ask yourself, why does America have to do so much of this fighting? Other nations can't fight to stop radical Muslims??
    actually, in complete seriousness, i do wonder who else could effectively do the fighting.
    FuriousOne wrote: »
    There actually was gorilla warfare in Japan but since most of them committed suicide and got massacred to the last man, there wasn't much of an effort. The same can be said for Germany being that most of the soldiers were sent to the front and only kids were left to fight.
    perhaps a fair point is that both Japan and Germany had set plans for continuing guerrilla campaigns... but neither of them came to much of anything.

  • Jabu_Rule
    Jabu_Rule Members Posts: 5,993 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2014
    Furiousone,


    I never once said America was a "moral" country, what I did say though was that America had moral authority over its enemies at the time, Japan and Germany. We all obviously know of the many crimes America has been guilty of throughout history, especially as a Black man. America though didn't commit the same crimes ? Germany and Japan did during the 1940s. And either way, I can respect a difference of opinion on the moral authority America had against its ENEMIES during WW2. You also seem to forget Japan bombed America first, with Germany wrecking havoc in Europe but whatever. We won't agree on moral authority here, although you should really read what Sun Tzu had to say about moral authority in wartime.

    As far as Afghanistan, YES it is time to cut our losses and get out of there. I know you don't like polls lately because poll after poll shows your opinions on many subjects are unpopular as ? , but most Americans want us out of Afghanistan now. There's a reason for that. If the threat of terrorism is so strong, then surely another nation can spend two billion dollars a week in Afghanistan right? I mean after all, every nation has to spend two billion dollars a week to protect itself from terror lol......

    I don't want American soldiers dying in vain either but the problem, as I've always said, is that America overstayed its welcome in Afghanistan. How long do you think America should be spending two billion dollars a week in Afghanistan? Until the year 3055? We're only creating more problems staying over there, it's a perfect recruitment tool for terrorists at this point. The longer we stay, the more hatred America is building in that part of the world. If you think bombing a Middle Eastern nation for 12 years is the way to create less terrorism in that part of the world, I have a ? Cheney and John Mccain poster I wana send to you. Cuz those are the crackas you sound like right now.

    We've been spending as much everywhere else including japan for the last 50 something years to ensure they don't revert to their old ways which is very possible. As far as what moral authority America has over our enemies versus japan well, there was the fact that they DID attack us (live on tv and overtly). That would be equivalent to pearl harbor and actually worse since they explicitly attacked civilians. Game on. You keep glossing over that fact. This same outfit (the Taliban) still works hand and hand with the people who did it and they have spread their wings further since. We use drones to prevent soldier death, but even that's not good enough for some people. America had Jim Crow laws and the great depression made America change it's tactics of creating Banana Republics. Stop acting like their ? didn't stink and some Moral cause was the reason to go to war. We didn't give a ? about Europe even as he destroyed civilian supply ships. Matter of fact, Bush grand daddy supported the Nazis.

    It wasn't until we were attacked that we entered the war and Europe was already conquered other then Britain and Russia. Bottom line is, I'm aware of America's fuckery then and now but once you attack us indiscriminately, all bets are off. The Afghan war is the only valid war currently. Polls mean nothing when they are created with leading questions for news points. As i said before, Nate Silver showed how flawed those polling methods are. All of America was down with Afghanistan, and Cheney and his homies ? it up and made it go this far by going to Iraq at the same damn time. How exactly do i agree with them? Now they using it to win elections acting like they are concerned about the soldiers. Two faced ? . If they was concerned, they wouldn't have stretched the soldiers thin going into Iraq, standing on aircraft carriers talking bout mission accomplished while Osama was chilling with his ladies. The hilarious part of that is, Bush Jr. was mad that we didn't finish the job with Sadam and ended the war after he left Kuwait. They didn't take this war serious in the first place.

    Fortunately Iraq had many military factions still functioning and a semblance of government so they can fight on. They still getting our money though. I'm saying, lets make sure the government and military is capable which is what we've been doing. I thought we agreed that terrorist want to make the world in their own image whether we there or not. Religious extremism is the reason for more terrorist. More terrorist are being made because we allow their daddies to live and our hands are tied going after them in Pakistan. That's even more cause to go after them because an unstable country next to a potentially unstable country with nukes is a no go. They attacking Pakistan on the low low too and Pakistan likes to saber rattle like the rest of them while taking our billions and accepting our help with their very real problem form the same damn people. You can say in reverse that we are recruiting more allies with every Taliban incursion into a village that is trying to teach their kids. Nobody else is willing to get the job done, that's why they look at us to do it while complaining from their armchair about our tactics.
  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    One of the best things that ever happened to japan was losing ww2 and being occupied by america is it had been the russians history would have been much much different.