Spike Lee goes in about Gentrification in Brooklyn drops Real ish...Long Read

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  • dc's teflondon
    dc's teflondon Members Posts: 5,895 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i don't know if this has been said; but one of the factors that lead to gentrification is economic development by the government of these primarily minority dominated areas..the property values are already reasonably low and a lot of the residents become awe struck with all the new stuff coming to their neighborhoods; but don't see what else is coming..a lot of them are renters and the owner of the building that they rent an apartment in gets offered x amount of dollars for the property and they sell, and the new owners says the that building will be turned into condos and current residents cannot afford to purchase the property out right so they have to relocate and add to that mix that white people no longer want to live in the suburbs and want a more walkable lifestyle that city offers and they see that the area is up and coming due to government development which leads to private development
  • Dupac
    Dupac Members, Writer Posts: 68,365 ✭✭✭✭✭
    wow this the first time i agreed with five on a social issue in a minute
  • BEAM
    BEAM Members Posts: 2,560 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2014
    @Darth Sidious
    @S2J‌

    Address what, exactly?
    He brought attention to the obvious.

    Darth ain't saying ? . All he does is come here and spout counterproductive negatives that in no way move the conversation forward, but instead linger on moot, dead-end facts for facts' sake.

    To even supportively post something as ignorant and bougie as to suggest that, "... if Spike Lee wants to see a place where there is no gentrification, he'll also find a place where there are no investments," is laughable, and also quite uninformed all it's own. The obvious fact that Gentrification = Investment is nothing more than a testament to the equally obvious fact that Whites refuse to invest in Us.

    But we've got affluent AA communities across the country that see ample investment, but zero gentrification. Proof that Whites aren't necessary to see advancement, and proof that Rich Blacks, like Lee, don't go hand in hand with gentrification, as also suggested by yet another of one Darth's excerpts.

    So once you fast-forward past all of the history, the motives, the examples, the testimony, the articles, and the criticisms, the only thing that's left to do is suggest what will inevitably sound like a "Black Power infused cliche;" Because these ideas have merit and promise. We just need to invest in them, and ourselves. But alas, yet another cliche, right?

    So again, what are we exactly talking about by avoiding "cliches" and instead droning over articles that leave out very pertinent contextual sensitivities in an attempt to seem progressive?
  • Knock_Twice
    Knock_Twice Members Posts: 4,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
    S2J wrote: »
    Excerpts from a another article. Spike, you want to save your neighborhood? KYS

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/26/us/new-york-spike-lee-gentrification/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

    Mitchell Moss, a professor of urban policy and planning at New York University's Wagner School of Public Service, said the city has witnessed an enormous recovery since 2001, and the greatest change has been felt in Brooklyn, which has drawn newcomers because of its housing, access to Manhattan and improved safety.
    "Cities don't stand still, and the cities that stand still are Detroit," Moss said. "So if Spike Lee wants to see a place where there is no gentrification, he'll also find a place where there are no investments. Obviously, he's someone who knows how to make a movie but doesn't know anything about cities."
    He added: "Brooklyn has become more attractive to more people. Of course, that means some people are going to have to find other places to live, but that's the magic of New York. We create new places. Today, Bushwick, which was an area that people were afraid to go to, now has some of the best restaurants in the city."



    "Let me just ? you right now," Lee, the "Do The Right Thing" director, told D.K. Smith, a Brooklyn homeowner and tech start-up director, at the speech when Smith brought up the subject of the "other side" of gentrification.

    Smith couldn't get a word in during Lee's speech Tuesday night. But the next day he said he was glad the filmmaker got people talking about the issue.
    "What I wanted to do was expand the dialogue," he told CNN's "Erin Burnett OutFront."

    "I'm black, and America is America," he said. "I don't need to moan and groan about it all the time. And some things are bigger than Bed Stuy or Fort Greene or being black in Brooklyn. Gentrification is an issue everywhere. It gets right down to the whole economic scene with the super rich, the 1%, and then the other 99 % of us."
    Smith said that when he bought his parents' four-story brownstone in 1989, he thought he'd be lucky to one day get $450,000 for it. "We passed that some time in the '90s," he said.
    "I'm personally tired of moaning and groaning about being black," he said. "Here's a case where it has its advantages -- for the first time tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of blacks can participate in American wealth creation. My ? , that's what this country is all about."
    Referring to reports that Lee's 9,000-square-foot mansion on Manhattan's Upper East Side is on the market for $32 million, Smith said: "Spike is a causative factor in gentrification. If Spike moves to a swamp ... that land next door goes up immediately."
    But Smith doesn't disagree entirely with Lee.
    "I've had incidents with the dogs of new owners crapping on the sidewalks. They don't think anybody lives there," he said, adding that most are "wonderful new neighbors."

    Lol

    NO REACTIONS TO THIS^^^?!?! See, you nggas dont wanna actually talk about this!

    Yall wanna throw out ill-informed, fake black-power infused cliches.

    Maybe it was too long. Lets address this :


    Smith said that when he bought his parents' four-story brownstone in 1989, he thought he'd be lucky to one day get $450,000 for it. "We passed that some time in the '90s," he said.
    "I'm personally tired of moaning and groaning about being black," he said. "Here's a case where it has its advantages -- for the first time tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of blacks can participate in American wealth creation. My ? , that's what this country is all about."

    "Cities don't stand still, and the cities that stand still are Detroit," Moss said.

    Please. Please, someone intelligently address this.


    Lol...

    it's alot of reason why many blacks have a hard time getting on the ball or in the American wealth creation

    1. bad credit.

    2. lack of knowledge on how to go about getting these resources...(greed, black ppl don't pass nothing down but debt in many cases)

    3. lazyness

  • LPast
    LPast Members Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Are the people in these neighborhoods renting?
  • jetlifebih
    jetlifebih Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 4,655 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Do you have any idea how much it would cost to "own" in the city????

    You gotta be 6 figure's or better easily
  • dc's teflondon
    dc's teflondon Members Posts: 5,895 ✭✭✭✭✭
    LPast wrote: »
    Are the people in these neighborhoods renting?

    you would be surprised at how long some people been renting their homes..i had family that lived around the corner from us and when my aunt died they all had to move out because she was renting the house and she lived in that house for at least 20 years
  • BrazilianHairMoney
    BrazilianHairMoney Members Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2014
    This is where Baltimore become a little advanced than Newyork.. We were one of the first cities to experience this started in the 80's. We have no more high rise "projects".. but in our cases, blacks move in white neighborhoods. So the gentrification is different. The blacks are moving whites out the neighborhoods, and making white areas black. but this is why our hoods are not only project areas. We have a larger hood mentality than New York.. Blacks are all over the place in Baltimore and through out Maryland, its the whites thats running out the neighborhoods.
  • StillFaggyAF
    StillFaggyAF Members Posts: 40,358 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is where Baltimore become a little advanced than Newyork.. We were one of the first cities to experience this started in the 80's. We have no more high rise "projects".. but in our cases, blacks move in white neighborhoods. So the gentrification is different. The blacks are moving whites out the neighborhoods, and making white areas black. but this is why our hoods are not only project areas. We have a larger hood mentality than New York.. Blacks are all over the place in Baltimore and through out Maryland, its the whites thats running out the neighborhoods.


    Thats not what gentrification is
  • Dupac
    Dupac Members, Writer Posts: 68,365 ✭✭✭✭✭
    in baltimore.....

    johns hopkins university is buying up a large share of the real estate...flip the ? , and resell it at a price that is forcing a lot of the black community out...in return bringing in a bunch of folk who are going bananas over this "urban living" craze....

    the ? 's been going on for a while....pushing all the black folk into parts of the surrounding counties with no fresh food, no readily accessible resources....basically every now n then you'll be driving and you'll find yourself in some part of the county where you didn't even know people lived at, and it's full of displaced black folk who have no idea where the ? they at, and no one even knows they're there....


    ? 's weird as ? ....i saw one in howard county, one in harford county, and another in anne arundel county....? 's ridiculous...there's a lotta trailer parks out there too.....something else i didn't even know existed in the baltimore area.....


    these are the forgotten areas, and slowly but surely a large chuck of the impoverished are being pushed out there....in like 10 years, baltimore is going to look nothing like it does today.....people still think that baltimore all looks like the wire....

    but i've been trying to tell yall for years.....come down here to visit, and i can show you a complete different city....
  • LPast
    LPast Members Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So the Actual owners are selling and the renters leases are not being renewed or they raise rent?
  • dc's teflondon
    dc's teflondon Members Posts: 5,895 ✭✭✭✭✭
    LPast wrote: »
    So the Actual owners are selling and the renters leases are not being renewed or they raise rent?

    in some instances they will let you live out your lease; but they won't renew or sign any new leases while informing the tenants that the building will be turned to condos and that have first option to buy

  • Dupac
    Dupac Members, Writer Posts: 68,365 ✭✭✭✭✭
    LPast wrote: »
    So the Actual owners are selling and the renters leases are not being renewed or they raise rent?

    when the old folk die, the house go back to the bank, cuz the families aren't trying to pay up...

    people done took out 3 & 4 mortgages on their homes....

    they couldn't own their ? if they wanted to
  • black caesar
    black caesar Members Posts: 12,036 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2014
    Du_Du wrote: »
    blame the nets

    @Du_Du‌ Its definitely going to happen in B more. Get prepared homie. Land is cheap over there
  • black caesar
    black caesar Members Posts: 12,036 ✭✭✭✭✭
    usmarin3 wrote: »
    Fyi the projects were never meant to be a final stop. I see nothing wrong with gentrification, it's like people love slums. Clean all that shut up, get some aspiration the ghetto, andmove up the economic ladder.

    I understand what you're trying to say, but its coming off the wrong way. Some can't afford to move. Black neiborhoods need to band together so that can buy land in the neighborhood. There needs to be a 2014 Black Wall Street
  • Maximus Rex
    Maximus Rex Members Posts: 6,354 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Embracing Your Inner Uncle Ruckus

    Nostrand Avenue and Eastern Parkway in Brooklyn, New York is a line of demarcation in some respects. I notice the further west you go on Eastern Parkway, the nicer the neighborhood becomes. The buildings seem cleaner, there's fresh sod planted, and the lawns in front of some of the building are nicely manicured. You'll notice this until you get up to museum and Grand Army Plaza, where the neighborhood changes again into the stately manisons and brownstones that make up Park Slope. On the other hand once you Eastern Parkway and Nostrand, you start to see the signs of urban blight. The buildings are dirter, the lawns are ? up, (if there is a lawn,) and there seems to be an overall difference in the standard and quality of life.

    As a matter of fact when then you get out of the train at Utica and walk down Eastern Parkway, or Union Street, there's always rats. Lots of them. The glaring difference between these two differences in same section of Brooklyn is white people, and guess where the white people live? Don't get me wrong, there are whites down by the last stop on the 4 Train, but not as many that's near Nostrand Ave. As anybody will tell you ten years ago there were any white people in that part of Brooklyn. Hell, those good white folks are even in Bed-Stuy, so much so that there's a WINE SHOP IN BEDFORD STUYVESANT! Who would have thought that you'd have a wine shop in what was once one of the roughest parts in New York. Don't get me wrong, there's still ? elements in Crown Heights, Harlem, and Bed-Stuy, but the gentrication is in its infancy and ? are about to get left behind. In about ten years or fifteen years a lot of the black people will have moved down south (to get to "land and higher quality of life," to one of them islands where they're originally from, and the ones that left will have to go to Brownsville or some other neighborhood. These are the n.... that are going to complaining about that they don't have anything and not owning ? .

    Personally, I like seeing the white come. Why is that Rex? Because white folks actually give a ? . White people care about their quality and standard of life. They'll write letters to politicans, go to the PTA meetings, and speak with their kids teachers. White expect and demand more of those around them. It kills me that we always talk about how ? up the public school system is, but in the case of New York's Department of Education, the school system seems to be working just fine for parents of kids go to Stuyvesant, Bronx Science, and Brooklyn Tech and the feeder schools that those good little white children came out of.

    But Rex, you have poor whites that are ? in the game too? With whites they don't seem to embrace and want to be like their poorer, low class counter parts. Kids in Park Slope aren't trying to emulate cranksters and pregnant teens in some trailer park in West Virginia, where as we want to be drug dealers, criminals, high school drop outs, teen mothers etc. and I personally think there's no hope for a youngster over the age of 13. Once a kid is over the age of 13 he's entering high school and the corruption begins. He's beginning bomdarded with these ignorance and nonsense, very few make through these very important and formative years unscathed.

    In the past few weeks I've come to notice all of this and like Uncle Ruckus if have zero desire to around these dumb muthafuckas. I don't would to live in their neighborhoods and when I have them, I damn sure don't want to send my kids to schools mostly populated by blacks. The irony is that I don't want my kids to grow up to "white black"children either.

    My solution to this problem is for adults who don't embrace dumb ? ? to look out of other like minded people and look for children that can be saved. The goal isn't to save every child, you shouldn't and you can't. Some of them will just have to go to the game, besides somebody have has to bag groceries, wash cars, be a security guard, strippers and escorts. As matter of fact, a chick at my school was saying her daughter was taking 3 years to finish a 2 year program, I was like "yeah, that's why strippers are needed," dumb ? thought I was talking about her daughter. She assumed I even thought her daughter was cute enough to be a stripper, but anyway.

    My thing is as people, we need to start distancing ourselves from certain beahavior and the people who do dumb ? ? . That's my main reason for not ? with and encouraging dudes not ? with chicks with kids, to discourage the behavior and if you think I'm doing too much, there are black people think like me, and guess where they live, around white people.


    School Rex on Why Gentrification is Bad

    http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/496271/school-rex-on-why-gentrification-is-bad

    I guess this more or less a Part II to http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/479971/embracing-your-inner-uncle-ruckus. The other day I noticed something rather interesting, I was going towards the train at Schenectady and Eastern Parkway, when I noticed one of those breaded hipster white dudes with some Trader Joe bags. Then it dawned on me that there's been an influx hipster types who have made their way east of Nostrand Ave, the demographics of Crown Heights is changing, rapidly at that. About ten or fifteen years ago the only white people in Crown Heights were Hasadic Jews, now it's Carribean ? , the Lubavitchers, and an infusion of hipsters.

    If y'all have noticed, but Rex tends to go very hard on negros, namely because I see negros as the main source ? problems in America, (but that's another thread,) my issue is that our communities have racthet and ? up for the damn near five decades, sure we had to deal with racism, classism, and bunch of other "isms," but during segregation ? had to deal with those issues hundred fold. We've been derelict in our duty to make our neighborhoods, safe and desirable places to live, work, play and educate our youngsters. So if another group sees the potential in our neighborhoods, who are we to ? and complain when "x" group brings our nieghborhood to it's potential?

    As far as businesses not being able to afford the rent, hey as cold as it sounds, that's economic Darwinism. The business owner's goal should have been able to buy the building his business was in and to formulate a business model that would have generated enough revenue so the proprietor of said business would have been able to withstand the economic changes to the neighborhood.
  • StillFaggyAF
    StillFaggyAF Members Posts: 40,358 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • Maximus Rex
    Maximus Rex Members Posts: 6,354 ✭✭✭✭✭
    gh0st wrote: »
    but like Spike asked why does it seem like it can only get "better" when white folks come along?

    Those "good white folks have all of the ? that ? don't seem to have. I remember one day, I came out of house to go about my daily business. As I approach the corner of Troy and Union, what do I see? A group of ? shooting dice on the corner. Now this is a busy street with all kinds of traffic during the day.

    Now imagine if if a group (not necessarily black,) of dudes want to shoot dice on the corner of 8th Avenue and Union Street in Park Slope or 150th St and 73rd Avein Flushing. Those white folks are calling the police, quick, fast, and in a hurry.

    The problem isn't gentrification per se, the problem is that black people are willing to accept a lower standard of living. These communities were ghettos for forty-five, fifty years, now ? want to complain when another group of people who care about their standard of living and the quality of their neighborhoods want to move in? Get the ? out here with that ? .


  • 2stepz_ahead
    2stepz_ahead Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 32,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
    but because people want to shot dice doesnt mean thats lower living.

    alot of ? people do in the hood is about having fun. its the fukk ? in that hood that take ? too far an fukk it up for everybody.

    white people do the same ? just a different way. they want ? done their way so they call the cops.

    there is no difference from shooting dice and an office pool for march madness.

    both are illegal, both can get people angry. one is outside or in a hallway and one is in an office setting. if played wrong either can lead to someone getting got.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    **Standing ovation for Spike Lee** he told the truth in a blunt and honest way......

    Sadly though, gentrification will continue. Those rich cracka trust fund babies are moving out and they need places to move to. This is happening all over the nation
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2014
    gns wrote: »
    This a fo(ur) page thread, which I haven't read yet. I'll say the prollem is African Americans ask for ? . U ain't never(dn)gonna get ? if u ASK for it, word to Malcolm.

    Powerful post bro but either way we're outnumbered here. Not much else can be done except forge stronger ties with another and own more property in our own neighborhoods, but most Blacks or not enough of us can do that. So gentrification will continue, best thing we can do is save up what we got and get ready for rocky years ahead.....cost of living aint going down.....
  • Mister B.
    Mister B. Members, Writer Posts: 16,172 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2014
    @Rex speaks that real.

    I live in this ? . White people didn't live in my building when I first moved in. There was no Connecticut Muffins on Nostrand Ave. three years ago.

    Go to Nostrand Ave., now from Eastern Parkway on down to Fulton St. It's still some ? ? , but you can see slow signs of gentrification....and progress. Go to Franklin St; that ? looks like a mini Williamsburg and ? , and you know what...I like it. For the most part, the hood ? is kept to a minimum. Franklin St, people picked up the dogshit, people throw away the trash.

    I can't hate I totally hate the idea of white folk moving in, because when they show better care of the neighborhood in six months then the ? who've been in for more than three years....well....how the ? do you combat that ? ??
  • mohamed
    mohamed Members Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mister B. wrote: »
    @Rex speaks that real.

    I live in this ? . White people didn't live in my building when I first moved in. There was no Connecticut Muffins on Nostrand Ave. three years ago.

    Go to Nostrand Ave., now from Eastern Parkway on down to Fulton St. It's still some ? ? , but you can see slow signs of gentrification....and progress. Go to Franklin St; that ? looks like a mini Williamsburg and ? , and you know what...I like it. For the most part, the hood ? is kept to a minimum. Franklin St, people picked up the dogshit, people throw away the trash.

    I can't hate I totally hate the idea of white folk moving in, because when they show better care of the neighborhood in six months then the ? who've been in for more than three years....well....how the ? do you combat that ? ??

    I agree with you and Rex but neighborhoods like carnarsie and flatbush heights are mostly nice black areas

  • 2stepz_ahead
    2stepz_ahead Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 32,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
    why does it need to be seen as progress tho?

    is it really progress?

    i thought progress what getting ahead off hard work. this is getting over by taking advantage.

    most of the people that own sell too fast not understanding the the worth of what they have. they rather take $1ook than sit on it an take $500k.

    if you see it coming then you know they will buy. just sit an wait
  • StillFaggyAF
    StillFaggyAF Members Posts: 40,358 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mister B. wrote: »
    @Rex speaks that real.

    I live in this ? . White people didn't live in my building when I first moved in. There was no Connecticut Muffins on Nostrand Ave. three years ago.

    Go to Nostrand Ave., now from Eastern Parkway on down to Fulton St. It's still some ? ? , but you can see slow signs of gentrification....and progress. Go to Franklin St; that ? looks like a mini Williamsburg and ? , and you know what...I like it. For the most part, the hood ? is kept to a minimum. Franklin St, people picked up the dogshit, people throw away the trash.

    I can't hate I totally hate the idea of white folk moving in, because when they show better care of the neighborhood in six months then the ? who've been in for more than three years....well....how the ? do you combat that ? ??

    Ok tyats great hut then all the roff raff and hoodboogers move out here to the suburbs solving nothing