Is The Black Bougie Wealthy Class been just as detrimental to Black empowerment?

Ajackson17
Ajackson17 Members Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
I say this because after taking consideration that it was not just the wealthy whites who went against The Honorable Marcus Garvey plan for Pan-Africanism but it was really the black elite who feared for their positions. They were the ones who fought the hardest to keep the empowerment of the lower class blacks from ever reaching such a unity. There has never been anytime in black history where we had a powerful movement since Garvey and yet it has been forgotten. We pay more attention to our entertainers and our wealthy black class than our own history and picking up from the pieces of our true emancipation. What strikes me is that ? Chin Ming used what he learned from Garvey as a poor man and built up his nation and emancipated from colonization. Those same ideals could be our emancipation and to truly lift ourselves up, but you think our bougie class would be the ones to go against it?
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Regulator
    edited March 2014
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 Members Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ? them ? .

    when prah inevitably wears her gated suburb pass out, she will be coming back to us, begging for us to rally behind her.

    same with bill cosby.

    Exactly. Bill Cosby is only lucky because ? Gregory left to support our people and he took that role as that funny ? . If we can apply Marcus Garvey strategy and concept which is still reviewed and looked at people in very high positions then we can probably save our people from being aggressive.
  • optimistic
    optimistic Members Posts: 659 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What do you mean by "save our people from being aggressive"?
  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 Members Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    optimistic wrote: »
    What do you mean by "save our people from being aggressive"?

    Towards each other at our rate. There are always going to. Be disputes and what. Not but minimizing by working as a logical collective group.
  • caddo man
    caddo man Members Posts: 22,476 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2014
    I think it is time for "Us" to stop being "Us". Times has changed. We (Us) dont have the same unifying problem anymore. The poor blacks have the same problems as poor white and other minorities. They did not get there the same way but all can leave on the same change in habits and ideologies.

    Segregation did more to change the dynamics of the black community than anything in history. It fragmented the community by giving the upper class blacks a way to move out from the middle and lowers income blacks. Then the middle class blacks began to move out to suburban areas. What was left is the remains of thriving communities that were only held together by the racial segregation of WASP (White Anglo Saxon Protestants) and other government officials.

    Fixing it can not be the job of Upper income Black people. It actually has to come from the continuing eroding of the mindset of the Lower income Blacks through outreach and mentoring. Showing them how to fish and encouraging the ones take it upon themselves to keep fishing without your assistance. But this outreach and mentoring can not be segregated to one area or races. It has to spread across the nation in different forms and implemented by different organizations. WE are not the same, so the solution can not be.

    It takes centuries for different races to rise up out of the ashes of slavery and torment. I would say that African Americans are on a fast track.
  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 Members Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Didn't say the wealthy need to take care of us, but have they been a road block in the earlier development until now? If you think about they have and given the other thread about black psyche from an objective viewpoint that would be the case. Read what Dubois said about Garvey, he always referred him to his dark pigment. That's just one example on a particular subject. Now I agree, the lower class are the ones that got to rise up on their own. So we must keep teaching the youth.
  • caddo man
    caddo man Members Posts: 22,476 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Didn't say the wealthy need to take care of us, but have they been a road block in the earlier development until now? If you think about they have and given the other thread about black psyche from an objective viewpoint that would be the case. Read what Dubois said about Garvey, he always referred him to his dark pigment. That's just one example on a particular subject. Now I agree, the lower class are the ones that got to rise up on their own. So we must keep teaching the youth.

    On Numerous occasions, Well known blacks have criticized the techniques of prominent African Americans. From Martin Luther King to Malcolm X. Dubois and BT Washington. Even the tactics of White abolitionist John Brown and F. Douglass. Criticism is justified only after action unfold.
  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 Members Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    caddo man wrote: »
    Didn't say the wealthy need to take care of us, but have they been a road block in the earlier development until now? If you think about they have and given the other thread about black psyche from an objective viewpoint that would be the case. Read what Dubois said about Garvey, he always referred him to his dark pigment. That's just one example on a particular subject. Now I agree, the lower class are the ones that got to rise up on their own. So we must keep teaching the youth.

    On Numerous occasions, Well known blacks have criticized the techniques of prominent African Americans. From Martin Luther King to Malcolm X. Dubois and BT Washington. Even the tactics of White abolitionist John Brown and F. Douglass. Criticism is justified only after action unfold.

    What we need is sound strategic action methods. So there needs to be a plan and educational push but first and foremost we have to think of way to put the family structure back together
  • twatgetta
    twatgetta Members Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If by Black Bougie you mean people like:

    Barack Obama
    Will Smith
    Oprah Winfrey
    Debra Lee
    Al Sharpton
    Jessie ?

    and the like, then yes they have been just as detrimental to Black empowerment. because they all sellouts
  • ineedpussy
    ineedpussy Members Posts: 7,252 ✭✭✭✭✭
    yeah thats the reason i hate w.e.b dubois is because he was down with the white establishment that help start the naacp and black frats and sororities. he was and uncle tom waaaaaay before uncle tom hence the boule
  • SneakDZA
    SneakDZA Members Posts: 11,223 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So you're suggesting that Oprah and Will Smith are detrimental to black empowerment simply because they are rich and they exist? Or did you have some kind of connection you were trying to make?
  • jono
    jono Members Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ineedpussy wrote: »
    yeah thats the reason i hate w.e.b dubois is because he was down with the white establishment that help start the naacp and black frats and sororities. he was and uncle tom waaaaaay before uncle tom hence the boule

    You ? can't be serious....
  • manofmorehouse
    manofmorehouse Members Posts: 2,716 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think the wealth disparity between African Americans has been an effective way to divide and conquer but as African Americans, we can't look at successful African Americans as sellouts either. There was nothing wrong with establishing the idea of a talented 10%. The problem came when those talented 10% got jobs and became cushy and comfortable with the same establishment that wouldn't accept them previously. Be bougie (in the original, intended meaning) but extend an olive branch to those that did not have the same access to connections, education, experiences that granted you your current position.

    When I was at Morehouse, there were all kinds of bougie ? there that would turn their noses up. Not the bulk but about 5%. My thing is, we all have the same struggle and are looked at the same way. Focus on the upliftment of your people and everyone wins. ? are short sighted though, rich or poor
  • jono
    jono Members Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think the wealth disparity between African Americans has been an effective way to divide and conquer but as African Americans, we can't look at successful African Americans as sellouts either. There was nothing wrong with establishing the idea of a talented 10%. The problem came when those talented 10% got jobs and became cushy and comfortable with the same establishment that wouldn't accept them previously. Be bougie (in the original, intended meaning) but extend an olive branch to those that did not have the same access to connections, education, experiences that granted you your current position.

    When I was at Morehouse, there were all kinds of bougie ? there that would turn their noses up. Not the bulk but about 5%. My thing is, we all have the same struggle and are looked at the same way. Focus on the upliftment of your people and everyone wins. ? are short sighted though, rich or poor

    Truth.

    DuBois vision had the talented tenth as the core leadership of the community, believing that they would help bring up others through various means.

    What ended up happening is these people became detached from their community and In turn became more bourgeois.

    These folks abandoned where they came from not only physically but culturally and spiritually. Brain drain is a huge problem in urban communities, once they separate physically (moving away) then very thing else just falls into place: they don't care if the schools, transportation systems etc are falling apart because they don't live there and it's not their problem...even if it once was.

  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2014
    I think the wealth disparity between African Americans has been an effective way to divide and conquer but as African Americans, we can't look at successful African Americans as sellouts either. There was nothing wrong with establishing the idea of a talented 10%. The problem came when those talented 10% got jobs and became cushy and comfortable with the same establishment that wouldn't accept them previously. Be bougie (in the original, intended meaning) but extend an olive branch to those that did not have the same access to connections, education, experiences that granted you your current position.

    When I was at Morehouse, there were all kinds of bougie ? there that would turn their noses up. Not the bulk but about 5%. My thing is, we all have the same struggle and are looked at the same way. Focus on the upliftment of your people and everyone wins. ? are short sighted though, rich or poor

    I agree. I say this mostly because I have known well off Blacks and many really did give back to the community....playing divide and conquer isn't going to help matters in my opinion, if rich Blacks don't help out, then pretty much no one will. We gotta stay united as a community and shout those out who really don't give a ? but pretend to once in awhile (Obama, other sell outs like him, etc)
  • onthafly
    onthafly Members Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭✭
    twatgetta wrote: »
    If by Black Bougie you mean people like:

    Barack Obama
    Will Smith
    Oprah Winfrey
    Debra Lee
    Al Sharpton
    Jessie ?

    and the like, then yes they have been just as detrimental to Black empowerment. because they all sellouts

    Just curious. Are their any wealthy black people in your opinion who aren't sellouts?
  • 2stepz_ahead
    2stepz_ahead Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 32,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
    it seems like being black and successful and sellout all go together in some peoples eyes.

    i seen both sides of the coin an unless you have both sides you really cant comment properly.

    on one side you see.....they got money but they dont help. they sellouts.
    on the other you see....i keep helping the poor but they keep ? up or half assing or not doing what they said they gonna do.
    but what the majority sees is ...only the sellout side. they dont see the side where people try to scam you, try to make you feel obligated cause we both black, assume you just gonna give them money an do the work. that ? can get frustrating and wear you out. but people dont care, all they see is your money and you aint helping and why you letting one person fukk it up for everyone.

    then you got the people who worked hard to get to their position and dont want someone coming in to fukk it up for them.
    then you have the people who will allow anyone in and then cant control when they ? gets fukked up.
    you have the people who try to help a few but cant reach they full potential because they are trying to help before they are fully able.
    then you have those who want to help but want to wait until they reach there full potential so they can help more than a few.
    then you have those who invest into the black community thru a third party....but never get recognized for it.
  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 Members Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • 2stepz_ahead
    2stepz_ahead Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 32,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
    you can also look at it like this...

    people ? on jayz for bring the barclays to brooklyn and thus helping regentrification. because it now raises the property value and people cant afford the taxes....right


    but why look at the negative....if i owned property....this man just made me money. if i can hold on long enough to my property...then i can make a huge profit.
    but whos fault is it that some people dont own property? is it really jayz's problem?
  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 Members Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You know people gonna catch feelings @pralims but I agree with you though. We truly didn't want to progress with the rest of the world and this is the end result. I'm thinking of moving to Ghana and try to upstart some businesses and get in the mineral business. I think that would help secure some wealth for me and my descendants, but I know some black people wouldn't take that risk which is fine, but everyone and they mama from china, india, japan and nations from europe are there. So why shouldn't the direct descendants of Africans not be down there collecting that money and have the ability to help build a bridge from there to the diaspora, I'm trying to get everyone rich not just me if you really about it.
  • 2stepz_ahead
    2stepz_ahead Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 32,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You know people gonna catch feelings @pralims but I agree with you though. We truly didn't want to progress with the rest of the world and this is the end result. I'm thinking of moving to Ghana and try to upstart some businesses and get in the mineral business. I think that would help secure some wealth for me and my descendants, but I know some black people wouldn't take that risk which is fine, but everyone and they mama from china, india, japan and nations from europe are there. So why shouldn't the direct descendants of Africans not be down there collecting that money and have the ability to help build a bridge from there to the diaspora, I'm trying to get everyone rich not just me if you really about it.

    you are right. everywhere i have been i have run into africans who travel around the world. i hardly run into black americans.
    I am usually the only black american. I just went to baselworld and was like one of like 10 black people...? is sad. all those white people networking and ? an only a few of us.

    Man i say go for it. you have nothing to lose.
    I have been to zanzibar in africa or right outside tanzania and the africans there was rude as hell until they found out i was american then it was all love.

    go there an scoop up some land and make some connects. ? i might go with you

  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 Members Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    pralims wrote: »
    You know people gonna catch feelings @pralims but I agree with you though. We truly didn't want to progress with the rest of the world and this is the end result. I'm thinking of moving to Ghana and try to upstart some businesses and get in the mineral business. I think that would help secure some wealth for me and my descendants, but I know some black people wouldn't take that risk which is fine, but everyone and they mama from china, india, japan and nations from europe are there. So why shouldn't the direct descendants of Africans not be down there collecting that money and have the ability to help build a bridge from there to the diaspora, I'm trying to get everyone rich not just me if you really about it.

    you are right. everywhere i have been i have run into africans who travel around the world. i hardly run into black americans.
    I am usually the only black american. I just went to baselworld and was like one of like 10 black people...? is sad. all those white people networking and ? an only a few of us.

    Man i say go for it. you have nothing to lose.
    I have been to zanzibar in africa or right outside tanzania and the africans there was rude as hell until they found out i was american then it was all love.

    go there an scoop up some land and make some connects. ? i might go with you

    I gotta do it and I found out there are countries that would help the diaspora acquire land and help build up their nation. That's my goal, I'm trying to execute at least next year.
  • onthafly
    onthafly Members Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2014
    pralims wrote: »
    you can also look at it like this...

    people ? on jayz for bring the barclays to brooklyn and thus helping regentrification. because it now raises the property value and people cant afford the taxes....right


    but why look at the negative....if i owned property....this man just made me money. if i can hold on long enough to my property...then i can make a huge profit.
    but whos fault is it that some people dont own property? is it really jayz's problem?

    He's helpin somebody out but chances are he's only helpin some wealthy white property owner make a profit while runnin all the black people out of town with the high property taxes. Not many black people own property and if you owned property to begin with, chances are you're not the one that needed helping out. Now I'm not sayin Jay-Z doesn't give back cause I've heard of him helpin people out in Africa by installing water pipes n ? but that's not the best example.

    And as far as who's fault it is that some people don't own property. Just remember that a lot of these white people get property handed down to them from past generations that took that ? from native Americans and used our people to farm their land and build this empire that we never made a profit off of.

    The real question is, why is every successful black person all of a sudden responsible for every non successful black person? Wealthy white people don't get treated like garbage for not handing their wealth over to whatever neighborhood they grew up in. People just appreciate the product that they create and 90% of black people callin other black people sellouts still hand their money over to these wealthy white people without a problem. We still hand our money over to wal mart, the movie industry and plenty of other establishments who treat us like ? but we can't support our own because they're not supportin the entire black community. Look at what that ? did to hammer.
  • 2stepz_ahead
    2stepz_ahead Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 32,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
    hammer is the perfect example....he wanted to help out alot of people an went broke in the process but no one wants to look at that...they look at him and laugh cuz he broke now.
    if the man ever gets money again...i bet he wont help no ? body out...an then he will be a sellout
  • NothingButTheTruth
    NothingButTheTruth Members Posts: 10,850 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2014
    pralims wrote: »
    it seems like being black and successful and sellout all go together in some peoples eyes.

    i seen both sides of the coin an unless you have both sides you really cant comment properly.

    on one side you see.....they got money but they dont help. they sellouts.
    on the other you see....i keep helping the poor but they keep ? up or half assing or not doing what they said they gonna do.
    but what the majority sees is ...only the sellout side. they dont see the side where people try to scam you, try to make you feel obligated cause we both black, assume you just gonna give them money an do the work. that ? can get frustrating and wear you out. but people dont care, all they see is your money and you aint helping and why you letting one person fukk it up for everyone.

    then you got the people who worked hard to get to their position and dont want someone coming in to fukk it up for them.
    then you have the people who will allow anyone in and then cant control when they ? gets fukked up.
    you have the people who try to help a few but cant reach they full potential because they are trying to help before they are fully able.
    then you have those who want to help but want to wait until they reach there full potential so they can help more than a few.
    then you have those who invest into the black community thru a third party....but never get recognized for it.

    Dope breakdown, like you said people are always going to focus on the negative but (regarding the bolded), ...

    if you have the connects and the wealth and you make a decision to help others, it's YOUR JOB to come up with a plan so you don't waste your time. Help the people that are in a position to use your help. Help the people who are already helping themselves.

    If you choose the wrong person, that's on you. That doesn't mean you should stop helping in general, it means you should do a better job of picking who to help.

    Knowledge is the key to every successful movement. If you know what you're doing and why you're doing it, you can make it work the right way instead of bullshitting your way to failure and getting mad, when you had no backing to what you were doing in the first place.

    ... The rest of your post is on point. Especially the part about trying to help people before you are fully able. I got caught in that once, and I quickly learned that I wasn't "on" myself enough to help at the magnitude I was trying to help at. Lesson learned, and when I get right I will revisit that project.