Linsanity

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  • Meta_Conscious
    Meta_Conscious Members Posts: 26,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    there is no precedent for this "if he was black" theory... he grew up with two parents and played against weak players... he went to harvard and made it to the league... where is the "struggle"?
  • A Talented One
    A Talented One Members Posts: 4,202 ✭✭✭
    S2J wrote: »
    He doesnt get hate. He gets a pretty fair shake really. He took a chance from Mike Dantoni, the NY stage, and turned it into a 30 mill. contract and a lifetime of name reocgnition.

    There is absolutely nothing struggley about his story. If he was about to get cut and 'barely made it' theres a reason for it. There are D league and overseas players who could do what he does. But they dont have the confidence and green light to shoot and create like he does or any other player with a name does.

    Thats the league in a nutshell. The most crowded position in maybe all of sports is the undersized 2 guard/combo guard. And even the ones in the league shoot around 40% ...theres dozens of guys who can do that. Its all about a name and opportunity, and green light.

    The bolded is dumb. Like even if you're right about the NBA, which you're not, this still ignores the lower levels of play. He would excel at one level, and people would say that he couldn't excel at the next. When excelled there, they would say the same thing about the next level. You can't conclude anything about his struggles over the course of his basketball career from what happened in the NBA alone. And even in the NBA, like I said about, he had some good workouts and good games in the summer league and yet still struggled.
  • Valentinez A. Kaiser
    Valentinez A. Kaiser Members Posts: 9,028 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • A Talented One
    A Talented One Members Posts: 4,202 ✭✭✭
    there is no precedent for this "if he was black" theory... he grew up with two parents and played against weak players... he went to harvard and made it to the league... where is the "struggle"?

    You're being disingenuous now. What does going to Harvard have to do with sports? We are talking about his struggle on the court, not in the classroom. He didn't even want to go to Harvard. I mean are you serious? If you are thinking of the possibility of playing in the NBA, are you going to go Harvard? Not even academically-minded players would do that, as there are other good schools with much better basketball programs.

    In certain sports, you will be given the benefit of the doubt if you're black. Or at least, being black won't hurt you. Being Asian will.
  • Meta_Conscious
    Meta_Conscious Members Posts: 26,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    he wasnt that good bruh... I watched the movie... he was playing against bums in high school....
    not only is his story wack, the documentary is cheap looking... its like some christian propaganda film...
  • A Talented One
    A Talented One Members Posts: 4,202 ✭✭✭
    So him being Asian didn't hurt him as far as basketball is concerned?
  • RAPH
    RAPH Members Posts: 3,169 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2014
    he wasnt that good bruh... I watched the movie... he was playing against bums in high school....
    not only is his story wack, the documentary is cheap looking... its like some christian propaganda film...

    Was he playing against bums as a Knick?

    Jeremy Lin, 38 Pts, 7 Ast, 2 Stl
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iWWFk6TX18
  • Meta_Conscious
    Meta_Conscious Members Posts: 26,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    he averages 12 points a game... so what?
  • Billy_Poncho
    Billy_Poncho Members Posts: 22,382 ✭✭✭✭✭
    His come-up was a lot easier than most. Foh wit that "because he was black" ? , hell he wouldn't have gotten this documentary if he were.
  • Matt-
    Matt- Members Posts: 21,585 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So him being Asian didn't hurt him as far as basketball is concerned?

    it didn't really hurt him cause he's in the nba, but i'm sure that there are alot of other asians out there up north better than jordan that didn't get that break.
  • A Talented One
    A Talented One Members Posts: 4,202 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2014
    His come-up was a lot easier than most. Foh wit that "because he was black" ? , hell he wouldn't have gotten this documentary if he were.

    That sounds really stupid right now. Did you read my last few posts?

    But yeah, he gets more attention because he's Asian. But that's consistent with having more obstacles to deal with on the way to the NBA, and once there initially.

  • A Talented One
    A Talented One Members Posts: 4,202 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2014
    Ok, let me try to break it down again, cause some of y'all sounding real dumb right now. Maybe an example will help.

    Take Neil Degrasse Tyson, the astrophysicist, author and host of Cosmos. Tyson has become a kind of cultural phenomenon, with people with little interest in science knowing about him. I think that being black is a factor with his current fame.

    But does that mean that Tyson had an easier time in getting to his Columbia PhD?

    Foh, of course not. I am sure dude had to put up with all kinds of ? along the way.

    So we have to distinguish between the rewards of success of underrepresented minorities -- which can indeed be more because they are minorities in their chosen endeavor -- and the obstacles they face in their efforts to become successful.

    It's not that complicated fellas.
  • Meta_Conscious
    Meta_Conscious Members Posts: 26,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2014
    again... since when has "lets not recruit this great player because he's asian" been a thing ever?
  • A Talented One
    A Talented One Members Posts: 4,202 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2014
    again... since when has "lets not recruit this great player because he's asian" been a thing ever?

    It's not "lets not recruit this great player because he's asian," but more "Yeah, he's really good at this level, but [subconsciously perhaps: since he's an Asian point guard] he probably won't excel at the next level."

  • almighty breeze
    almighty breeze Members Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2014
    so none of it was because other players were better? they held meetings to cut dude and in the board room stuck at the top of the list "Asian"

    so we debating peoples perceived subconscious with no backing or precedent of behavior or discrimination against a group of people

    maybe socially its a joke- "ha he's asian he cant ball" but it has never on a professional/college level been a thing to go "he wont be able to excel because of his background" if there was a super athletic freak who was white it would show and people (read:recruiters and scouts) would not be sayin "his whiteness will hold him back"

    Point is dude came from zero hardship in life. went to literally the best school in the country and played basketball simply because it was just...yanno... a choice for him, however passionate he is. He was not bein cut because he was asian. it was cause he was not the best available.

    There is zero comparison to him being black. Stop trying to equate real documented prejudice and unfounded perception with "What Ifs"- Black players and black professionals in other fields were being purposely looked over despite proving themselves to be more than capable. There is no Asian Affirmative action for the NBA. If you're that good, they will find u.

    If he was dominating in college and high school and blowing starters away in practice this may be valid.

    dude was not ? on players on any level before D'antoni and Linsanity and the reason there is no sympathy is because Linsanity was the most intense forced sports story this decade- 3 games in and it took over ESPNs whole 24/7 programming for about a month. Had them comparing him to Tebow and sayin ? like "Who will be the Jeremy Lin of this MLB season"
  • almighty breeze
    almighty breeze Members Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭✭✭
    whatever school his parents made him go to it would be the same- the Ivy League is not a power basketball conference so expecting to be some highyl touted recruit from there reeks of delusion or entitlement.

    theres plenty of players going to Penn or Princeton that arent going to be viewed the same as a prospect from Kentucky or Kansas..theres a reason for that and its not about Asia
  • greenwood1921
    greenwood1921 Members Posts: 47,115 ✭✭✭✭✭
    so none of it was because other players were better? they held meetings to cut dude and in the board room stuck at the top of the list "Asian"

    so we debating peoples perceived subconscious with no backing or precedent of behavior or discrimination against a group of people

    maybe socially its a joke- "ha he's asian he cant ball" but it has never on a professional/college level been a thing to go "he wont be able to excel because of his background" if there was a super athletic freak who was white it would show and people (read:recruiters and scouts) would not be sayin "his whiteness will hold him back"

    Point is dude came from zero hardship in life. went to literally the best school in the country and played basketball simply because it was just...yanno... a choice for him, however passionate he is. He was not bein cut because he was asian. it was cause he was not the best available.

    There is zero comparison to him being black. Stop trying to equate real documented prejudice and unfounded perception with "What Ifs"- Black players and black professionals in other fields were being purposely looked over despite proving themselves to be more than capable. There is no Asian Affirmative action for the NBA. If you're that good, they will find u.

    If he was dominating in college and high school and blowing starters away in practice this may be valid.

    dude was not ? on players on any level before D'antoni and Linsanity and the reason there is no sympathy is because Linsanity was the most intense forced sports story this decade- 3 games in and it took over ESPNs whole 24/7 programming for about a month. Had them comparing him to Tebow and sayin ? like "Who will be the Jeremy Lin of this MLB season"

    [/thread]
  • Beta
    Beta Members Posts: 65,596 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Documentary for gerald green if there was one>>>>> Lin who got cut I believe twice and then played for the Knicks against teams who had no scouting report on..

    Sun yue>>>>>
  • A Talented One
    A Talented One Members Posts: 4,202 ✭✭✭
    so none of it was because other players were better? they held meetings to cut dude and in the board room stuck at the top of the list "Asian"

    so we debating peoples perceived subconscious with no backing or precedent of behavior or discrimination against a group of people

    maybe socially its a joke- "ha he's asian he cant ball" but it has never on a professional/college level been a thing to go "he wont be able to excel because of his background" if there was a super athletic freak who was white it would show and people (read:recruiters and scouts) would not be sayin "his whiteness will hold him back"

    Point is dude came from zero hardship in life. went to literally the best school in the country and played basketball simply because it was just...yanno... a choice for him, however passionate he is. He was not bein cut because he was asian. it was cause he was not the best available.

    There is zero comparison to him being black. Stop trying to equate real documented prejudice and unfounded perception with "What Ifs"- Black players and black professionals in other fields were being purposely looked over despite proving themselves to be more than capable. There is no Asian Affirmative action for the NBA. If you're that good, they will find u.

    If he was dominating in college and high school and blowing starters away in practice this may be valid.


    dude was not ? on players on any level before D'antoni and Linsanity and the reason there is no sympathy is because Linsanity was the most intense forced sports story this decade- 3 games in and it took over ESPNs whole 24/7 programming for about a month. Had them comparing him to Tebow and sayin ? like "Who will be the Jeremy Lin of this MLB season"

    The bolded proves that you don't know what you are talking about. If it is true, the rest of your post is nullified. So how can you post all of this ? when you don't know if the bolded is true or not? Well, I am saying that it is true, at least to some extent. Watch the movie.
  • A Talented One
    A Talented One Members Posts: 4,202 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2014
    whatever school his parents made him go to it would be the same- the Ivy League is not a power basketball conference so expecting to be some highyl touted recruit from there reeks of delusion or entitlement.

    theres plenty of players going to Penn or Princeton that arent going to be viewed the same as a prospect from Kentucky or Kansas..theres a reason for that and its not about Asia

    Watch the movie, or even read my posts above. He led his team to the California state championship and only got the offer from Harvard. He did not want to go to Harvard.

    You are just talking out of your ass based on preconceived notions based on him being Asian.
  • A Talented One
    A Talented One Members Posts: 4,202 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2014
    And being white in basketball is not the same as being Asian. A dude's whiteness would not be held against him the way that a dude's Asianness would.
  • A Talented One
    A Talented One Members Posts: 4,202 ✭✭✭
    Parallel wrote: »
    Lin really isn't that great. Arguing that Linsanity had a lot to do with Lin's talent is pointless. It had about as much to do with his talent as Tebow's talent did with Tebow mania.

    Even during Linsanity he had a lot of points but averaged like 6 turnovers a game.... Just stop.

    Him being Asian made him a ton of money so to say it is what kept him from being sought after is dead wrong, he should be a back up in the NBA.
    Ok, let me try to break it down again, cause some of y'all sounding real dumb right now. Maybe an example will help.

    Take Neil Degrasse Tyson, the astrophysicist, author and host of Cosmos. Tyson has become a kind of cultural phenomenon, with people with little interest in science knowing about him. I think that being black is a factor with his current fame.

    But does that mean that Tyson had an easier time in getting to his Columbia PhD?

    Foh, of course not. I am sure dude had to put up with all kinds of ? along the way.

    So we have to distinguish between the rewards of success of underrepresented minorities -- which can indeed be more because they are minorities in their chosen endeavor -- and the obstacles they face in their efforts to become successful.

    It's not that complicated fellas.
  • RAPH
    RAPH Members Posts: 3,169 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2014
    Parallel wrote: »
    If Jeremy Lin were black we would have likely never even heard of him. He'd basically just have had a week of highlights on sportscaster 2 years ago and he definitely wouldn't have received 25 million from the Rockets.

    Not true, people forget that Lin was out there breaking records. Anybody that could of did what he did would of got the proper recognition.

    But no one did what Lin did. If you can, name one black player who put up the numbers that Lin did under the same circumstances.

    If you can do that then you'll have a point.

    In his first 5 NBA starts Lin has scored 136 points and now holds the record for the most points scored for an NBA player in their first 5 NBA starts, breaking Shaquille O'Neal's record.

    How many other D-Leaguers have done that?

  • #1hiphopjunki3
    #1hiphopjunki3 Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 3,557 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I had heard a bit of Lin when he was coming out of Harvard for the NBA and I even seen the Summer League game where he gave John Wall a hellavu competition. That game helped him be able to choose going to Golden State which was a bad choice because they had better guards in front of him on the depth chart.


    But for the people cosigning the fuckery that he didn't get all that fair of a shake because he was asian is full of ? . Lin was hanging on by a thread in the NBA because he couldn't guard point guards that well, has trouble driving and finishing with his left hand, isn't that good of an outside shooter and has turnover problems.

    Like somebody else stated earlier in this thread Lin is pretty much an undersized 2 guard in a point guards body with a shaky jumper. There are thousands of those types of guys trying to make the league or riding the pine in the league. Lin had a great run with the Knicks because of the coaches offensive system, no true scouting report on him and the fact that they needed him to shoot.

    Lin is a solid player but he has never been able to duplicate that run he had with the Knicks because teams have film on him and he regressed to the mean.
  • A Talented One
    A Talented One Members Posts: 4,202 ✭✭✭
    Parallel wrote: »
    Dr. Neil Tyson actually has talent and chose to go to Harvard himself. He knows what he is doing and has been arguably at the top of his field for a decade now. Bill Nye being buddies with him has more to do with his pop culture fame than him being black. Poor example.

    Listen man, you are wasting my time now, but I will it break it down for you one last time.

    I am claiming that there is a parallel between what Lin experienced on the way to the NBA and what many blacks experience in certain fields where blacks have only a small presence and which require high intelligence, fields like math, economics, medicine, engineering, astrophysics and so on.

    For the parallel to work, you don't have to be among the best of your field. In fact, that's not how things normally work, especially when the group is first starting to break into a field; people doubt your basic competence, so you being among the best is not even up for consideration. Since you are black, people don't think you can be even an average engineer or an average astrophysicist, and so there is no question of you being among the best.

    It's the same with Asians and basketball. It's not that people doubt that Lin could be among the very best guards (though that doubt is implied by what they do doubt); they doubt that he could even be a solid player, or perhaps even that he could play in the NBA. If that was the doubt, he would not have had the same kind of obstacles that he had.

    And if you were paying attention to what I am saying you'll know that I am not saying that Lin is the GOAT. This is what I said on page 1:
    I don't know if anybody is saying he's the GOAT, or that him being Asian doesn't attract him more attention than he would otherwise get.

    The questions are:

    1) Is he good enough to be a solid player in the NBA?

    2) Did him being Asian negatively impact his path to a secure position in the NBA?

    I think the answers to both questions are yes.

    That said, I don't want to say that it would have made no difference if Lin had talents that obviously placed him among the top point guards of his era. But he still would have encountered more obstacles just because people aren't used to seeing Asians play ball at the NBA level, especially dudes who aren't 7'.

    So Tyson being at the "top of his field" is completely irrelevant. He would have encountered more obstacles whether he was average or at the top of his field. At the same time, if he were just an average astrophysicist, his fame would probably be incommensurate with his talents. But that incommensurate reward does not mean that he did not face more obstacles on the road to success, just as the fact that Lin's Asianness has produced a certain benefit now doesn't mean that he didn't face more obstacles on the way to the NBA and in the NBA itself initially.

    By the way, as far as I know Tyson isn't regarded as some extraordinary researcher; he doesn't even write academic papers any more. He is thought of as someone who is very good at communicating complex ideas to the general public but who showed no signs that he would have been anything better than solid researcher if he had stuck with that.

    As far as his fame is concerned, I wasn't even thinking about his friendship with Nyre. I was thinking about his general popularity.