If Tim Duncan wins his 5th championship, is he the greatest player in the post-Jordan era?
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I don't know. I think people need to separate skill from being a winner. Duncan falls into that Russell argument, a winner but I wouldn't consider the player Kobe is talent wise.
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Depends on what one thinks the word 'greatest' encompasses. Most accomplished? Most talented? The best individual player? Or all in one?
Anyway, I think if he won another Ring, he'd be the most accomplished player since Jordan, but Kobe, Shaq and Lebron are more dominant and better individual players, in fact Lebron and Kobe unlike Tim Duncan both held the label at one point in their careers as the best basketball player on the planet.
Tim Duncan has a career average of 20, 11 and 2(he only averaged over 23.3 points in a season once in his career). Shaq had a career average of 23.7, 11 and 2.3(he averaged over 26 points in season 10 times). Kobe has a career average of 25.5, 5.3 and 4.8. Lebron has a career average of 27.5, 7.2 and 6.9.
All 4 played with future Hall of Famers and multiple all-stars, and won championships with them.
So right now I'd have to say even if he won this year's NBA Title, I'd still give the greatest Post-Jordan label to Kobe and if he lost he's behind Kobe and Shaq and right ahead of Lebron. To me only Lebron truly has a chance to pass Kobe as the greatest player since MJ, which will be extremely hard to do.
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Imo, he already is. Always was. He just doesn't play the popular, exciting position.
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Yeah
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I don't get the Kobe is more skill argument. Because Kobe is a perimeter player so naturally he be more skill. But Duncan is just as skilled on the low block. He can finish with either hand. Post moves and counter moves hook shots...Face up moves.. Bank Shots from 15 feet. Top of the midrange jumper. Was a explosive leaper for his size before the knee injuries. Great passer off the double team and pick and roll. So it's no clear cut argument Kobe is more skilled. It's a reason they call Tim Duncan the Big Fundamental.
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WhoisDonG??? wrote: »I don't get the Kobe is more skill argument. Because Kobe is a perimeter player so naturally he be more skill. But Duncan is just as skilled on the low block. He can finish with either hand. Post moves and counter moves hook shots...Face up moves.. Bank Shots from 15 feet. Top of the midrange jumper. Was a explosive leaper for his size before the knee injuries. Great passer off the double team and pick and roll. So it's no clear cut argument Kobe is more skilled. It's a reason they call Tim Duncan the Big Fundamental.
thats the casual fan argument.
it really comes down to the kareem vs mike as GOAT argument. rather your views on that subject will tell you whether or not you believe duncan or kobe took over that mantle.
duncan has every credential needed and is a greatest of all time player at his position.
but he wont be appreciated until he hangs it up apparently
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WhoisDonG??? wrote: »I don't get the Kobe is more skill argument. Because Kobe is a perimeter player so naturally he be more skill. But Duncan is just as skilled on the low block. He can finish with either hand. Post moves and counter moves hook shots...Face up moves.. Bank Shots from 15 feet. Top of the midrange jumper. Was a explosive leaper for his size before the knee injuries. Great passer off the double team and pick and roll. So it's no clear cut argument Kobe is more skilled. It's a reason they call Tim Duncan the Big Fundamental.
Everything you just said Duncan does, Kobe can also do. You can argue Kobe's post game is better than Duncan's.
Kobe's not one of these standard perimeter players who look lost down low. Kobe is a technician on the block, outside, mid-range, wherever you want to go with it. -
Begrudgingly Ima have to go with Kobe.
Tim had the benefit of playing for a better run franchise tho. -
A$AP_A$TON wrote: »Begrudgingly Ima have to go with Kobe.
Tim had the benefit of playing for a better run franchise tho.
Bruh Kobe ran ? off the team so he could live his Jordan fantasies. If Shaq stayed naturally Kobe would've became the focal point as Shaq got older. All this fuckery with the Lakers is Kobe fault. He runs the building. If he wanted to win so bad he wouldn't take 48 million dollar extension. That's money that can be used for building the team to compete. Don't hold the fact that Tim took a backseat and less money to win and stay competitive. ? forget Kobe ran Phil off the first time as well. -
He already is.......
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WhoisDonG??? wrote: »A$AP_A$TON wrote: »Begrudgingly Ima have to go with Kobe.
Tim had the benefit of playing for a better run franchise tho.
Bruh Kobe ran ? off the team so he could live his Jordan fantasies. If Shaq stayed naturally Kobe would've became the focal point as Shaq got older. All this fuckery with the Lakers is Kobe fault. He runs the building. If he wanted to win so bad he wouldn't take 48 million dollar extension. That's money that can be used for building the team to compete. Don't hold the fact that Tim took a backseat and less money to win and stay competitive. ? forget Kobe ran Phil off the first time as well.
I agree with everything you said. It's just when I compare them player to player, I gotta go Kobe.
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Kobe got that locked up and I don't see anybody surpassing him in a long time. The outcome of one series doesn't change that.
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Kobe Bean Bryant. Both are #2 all-time at their respective positions, IMHO, but I'd have to say Kobe is the greater of the two.
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Kobe Bean Bryant. Both are #2 all-time at their respective positions, IMHO, but I'd have to say Kobe is the greater of the two.
who's a better power forward than Timmy? -
The #2 scorer of all time aka Karl "The Mailman" Malone
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The #2 scorer of all time aka Karl "The Mailman" Malone
Hell naw and that's not a knock.
Malone had the benefit of playing with a pass first PG in Stockton to get him easy points.
Timmy never had that -
Nosign Duncan had more in the bag than Malone
Also if you want to follw the narrative of kobe running shaq off.. the mde couldnt you in the same token say that its not a negative.. seeing to the often repeated sentence... shaq carried him.... I mean thats only if you want to go with the narrative of course -
Malone also never had a scoring pg that can help him with the load like TP does with Duncan... Stockton never scored over 35pts in a game -
So averaging 25 & 10 over a 19 year career is all because of Stockton? I can dig it.
I guess consistency and durability don't mean as much as they used to. -
Malone also never had a scoring pg that can help him with the load like TP does with Duncan... Stockton never scored over 35pts in a game
The ? is that suppose to mean though smh he had a quality supporting cast.. amd stockton was a protoypical pg.. lol at never scored 35 though -
So averaging 25 & 10 over a 19 year career is all because of Stockton? I can dig it.
I guess consistency and durability don't mean as much as they used to.
These ? really think Stockton was solely responsible for Malones success when it's really in reverse, if Malone doesn't make the basket Stockton doesn't get the assist... It doesn't take much talent to pass the ball, especially in Stocktons case b/c he's not even a flashy passer.... If Malone had 2 rings (probly even 1) he would hands down be the GOAT PF -
I still think Kobe better (biased) but I can't be mad at a ? saying he is.
When Duncan and Kobe retire it will truly be an end of an era. I might shed a manly tear on the inside. -
Did I say any of that?
Having someone to help you get easier looks is a great thing.
Like I said its not a knock.
He had to have the ability to finish.
Yes you can say the same about TP carrying the load offensively but that would be downplaying Utah as a whole.
So you're gonna tell me they didn't have good teams and a good coach in Sloan?
I just think Duncan is more impressive.
03 Finals anyone?
He put that team on his gotdamn back
Not mention he was a better defender and shot blocker than Malone -
Kobe is my man but Duncan got him. Parker progressively got nice to the point that he's at now. Pop wanted George Hill over him at one point. Manu was tough but Bruce Bowen held them down a lot. Duncan transformed his game plenty of times over the years, playing PF and then Center and still holding it down. For those who say Shaq was better, there's plenty of clips where Shaq shows nuff respect to Tim.
Guards are supposed to have skills. Kobe ain't better than Mike, but he's close...but Kobe says T-Mac was right there with him. Duncan could've looked at KG for a while, until the calendar rolled to May. I won't say too much more. ? who watch the game and don't pay attention to numbers know - Tim Duncan is special, nh. Top 5 all-time, best player overall post-Jordan and Kobe still my favorite player.
