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Hillary Clinton Equates Gun Control Opponents With Terrorists

janklowjanklow god's lonely man.Posts: 8,613 Regulator
i mean, beyond the fact that i don't like being called a terrorist, and that the statement on gun control implies she doesn't know THAT much about what she wants to ban... this IS the person who complained about people saying it was unpatriotic to disagree with them...

Hillary Clinton Equates Gun Control Opponents With Terrorists
During a CNN "town hall" yesterday, Hillary Clinton said she was disappointed that Congress did not pass new gun control legislation following the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre in December 2012. "I believe that we need a more thoughtful conversation," said the former secretary of state and presumptive presidential candidate. "We cannot let a minority of people—and that's what it is, it is a minority of people—hold a viewpoint that terrorizes the majority of people." Evidently Clinton's idea of a more thoughtful conversation about gun control involves equating disagreement with terrorism while claiming some opinions are so dangerous that "we cannot let" people hold them.

I am not sure how Clinton plans to implement this new opinion control policy. As for gun control, she says she wants "background checks that work." If she means background checks that block gun purchases by people with no disqualifying criminal or psychiatric records (a description that fits the perpetrators of almost all mass shootings, including the Sandy Hook massacre), she might as well wish for a unicorn. If she means background checks that strip harmless people of their Second Amendment rights based on irrational criteria, that much surely could be achieved.

Clinton, by the way, twice referred to mass shooters with "automatic" weapons, meaning she does not understand the difference between semi-automatic firearms and machine guns, even after eight years as first lady in an administration that supported a highly contentious "assault weapon" ban and eight years as a senator who supported further restrictions. Her confusion on that point, which President Obama seems to share, in itself would be enough reason to take her advice about gun policy with a grain of salt.

Replies

  • Mainstream_rap_sucksMainstream_rap_sucks Posts: 210
    edited June 2014
    its amazing how little progress has been made in the gun control debate. neither side will admit that the other side may have a point. liberals wont admit that guns do, in fact, save lives when used properly and all these restrictions they want to implement only makes it harder for honest people who want to protect their family to do so. conservatives won't admit that there is a problem with gun violence, and that a few well-calibrated tweaks in the law books may actually go a long way.

    all these democrats really need to change their antagonistic rhetoric if they really plan on changing the laws, considering how strong the gun lobby is. why is banning assault rifles even being talked about? how many people are killed by assault rifles every year compared to the total gun deaths?
    nex ginkingblaze84PlutarchAjackson17
  • Maximus RexMaximus Rex Pulchritudo in Conspectu Regis The EmpreyanPosts: 6,355 ✭✭✭✭✭
    conservatives won't admit that there is a problem with gun violence, and that a few well-calibrated tweaks in the law books may actually go a long way.

    Gun violence isn't a problem, the lack of an armed citizenry is.

    all these democrats really need to change their antagonistic rhetoric if they really plan on changing the laws, considering how strong the gun lobby is. why is banning assault rifles even being talked about? how many people are killed by assault rifles every year compared to the total gun deaths?[/quote]

    It's isn't about banning assault weapons, it's about rescinding the Second Amendment via attrition.

    Oakland+Athletics+1200.jpg

    “There are three types of baseball players: those who make it happen, those who watch it happen, and those who wonder what happens.”―Tommy Lasorda
    janklowSoloman_The_WiseAjackson17
  • janklowjanklow god's lonely man. Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    conservatives won't admit that there is a problem with gun violence, and that a few well-calibrated tweaks in the law books may actually go a long way.
    the problem with the notion of well-calibrated tweaks is a combination of "the solutions presented are not really addressing anything" and "to be fair, we have a lot of laws on the books that pro-gun dudes see as a compromise."

    personally, i think you address gun violence by ending the damn war on drugs and otherwise addressing poverty/mental health issues BUT HEY that's just me
    why is banning assault rifles even being talked about? how many people are killed by assault rifles every year compared to the total gun deaths?
    because it's the current thing that's easy to demonize (that's why we just got a ban around these here parts). when i was a kid, it was all about banning handguns, banning handguns, banning handguns, because "cheap handguns" and "Saturday Night Specials" were the problem. but now...

    Soloman_The_Wisekingblaze84
  • Mainstream_rap_sucksMainstream_rap_sucks Posts: 210
    edited June 2014
    conservatives won't admit that there is a problem with gun violence, and that a few well-calibrated tweaks in the law books may actually go a long way.

    Gun violence isn't a problem, the lack of an armed citizenry is.


    no, gun violence IS a problem, an armed citizenry is a possible solution.

    moron.

    your lack of acknowledging an issue when tens of thousands of people are getting killed every year is exactly what i was talking about.

    if there werent so many deaths from street violence, you wouldnt say that the lack of an armed citizenry was a problem. they are separate issues that affect each other.
    Soloman_The_Wise
  • janklow wrote: »
    conservatives won't admit that there is a problem with gun violence, and that a few well-calibrated tweaks in the law books may actually go a long way.
    the problem with the notion of well-calibrated tweaks is a combination of "the solutions presented are not really addressing anything" and "to be fair, we have a lot of laws on the books that pro-gun dudes see as a compromise."

    personally, i think you address gun violence by ending the damn war on drugs and otherwise addressing poverty/mental health issues BUT HEY that's just me

    i agree, but more could be done to prevent straw purchases too, imo. other than that, i say make it easy to have a gun, but invest in microstamping, so the forensic ballistics can be traced to your gun. but i realize im in the minority for believing that a gun registry would be a good idea. most people like to say that it will lead to confiscation, which i don't think the government would risk that many potential "waco" situations unless shit really hit the fan. basically i don't think you should be worried about registering your gun unless you have something to hide.
  • janklowjanklow god's lonely man. Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    i agree, but more could be done to prevent straw purchases too, imo.
    the first thing i think when someone says this is "does your local jurisdiction prosecute straw purchasers properly?" because you can still make straw purchases despite a lot of the "make them harder to do" nonsense, which often seems like it's meant solely for the purpose of making gun ownership inconvenient.
    other than that, i say make it easy to have a gun, but invest in microstamping, so the forensic ballistics can be traced to your gun.
    well, for starters, microstamping is a shit idea, really: it's not really reliable but it DOES add cost and results in large-scale gun bans (hello, California); what you end up with is a feature a criminal could defeat but which absolutely fucks with the average Joe.
    but i realize im in the minority for believing that a gun registry would be a good idea. most people like to say that it will lead to confiscation, which i don't think the government would risk that many potential "waco" situations unless shit really hit the fan.
    well, you have states like CT where the only thing stopping confiscation is the fear of bad press... but remember that states like NY shot down confiscation because they deemed it "too expensive."

    and really, registries DON'T STOP CRIME. take a look at how that worked out in Canada. or better yet, take Maryland: for years now, we've had a "ballistic database" requiring all new handguns to have a shell casing submitted to the state police. it's cost millions and millions of dollars. and yet, it has literally NEVER helped solve a crime.
    Plutarch
  • janklow wrote: »
    i agree, but more could be done to prevent straw purchases too, imo.
    the first thing i think when someone says this is "does your local jurisdiction prosecute straw purchasers properly?" because you can still make straw purchases despite a lot of the "make them harder to do" nonsense, which often seems like it's meant solely for the purpose of making gun ownership inconvenient.
    other than that, i say make it easy to have a gun, but invest in microstamping, so the forensic ballistics can be traced to your gun.
    well, for starters, microstamping is a shit idea, really: it's not really reliable but it DOES add cost and results in large-scale gun bans (hello, California); what you end up with is a feature a criminal could defeat but which absolutely fucks with the average Joe.
    but i realize im in the minority for believing that a gun registry would be a good idea. most people like to say that it will lead to confiscation, which i don't think the government would risk that many potential "waco" situations unless shit really hit the fan.
    well, you have states like CT where the only thing stopping confiscation is the fear of bad press... but remember that states like NY shot down confiscation because they deemed it "too expensive."

    and really, registries DON'T STOP CRIME. take a look at how that worked out in Canada. or better yet, take Maryland: for years now, we've had a "ballistic database" requiring all new handguns to have a shell casing submitted to the state police. it's cost millions and millions of dollars. and yet, it has literally NEVER helped solve a crime.
    Interesting. So so you propose no regulations period? Not even a background check for violent offenders or anything? Closing of gun show loopholes at least?
    I'm impressed by your knowledge nut feel like your unwilling to grant that the violence problem is containable with any laws, when other industrialized countries have shown that it is, And they still have drug and poverty problems. Only difference is that they completely banned firearms for self defense. Do you not think anything short of that will help in America?
  • janklowjanklow god's lonely man. Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    Interesting. So so you propose no regulations period? Not even a background check for violent offenders or anything?
    well, let's start here: we HAVE federal background checks mandated for licensed dealers. i personally live in a state with pretty severe regulations. so from my perspective, we don't need any additional regulations. now, i would actually be willing to wheel and deal background checks for an end to "assault weapon bans" and magazine restrictions... but i don't trust the other side to be satisfied with whatever they call common sense regulations.

    i can give some petty-sounding examples of how these laws fuck with guys like me without doing a damn thing for crime, but i'll just say that there's low grade stuff that doesn't bother me and leave it at that.
    Closing of gun show loopholes at least?
    going to be honest: the "gun show loophole" as commonly stated is bullshit. not trying to say what you personally mean is the standard belief that i call BS on, but to be honest, it's often one of those things where i think most people getting worked up about it simply aren't that familiar with the relevant laws. still usually comes down to how your state regulates private sellers, because a licensed FFL must run federal background checks.
    I'm impressed by your knowledge nut feel like your unwilling to grant that the violence problem is containable with any laws, when other industrialized countries have shown that it is, And they still have drug and poverty problems. Only difference is that they completely banned firearms for self defense. Do you not think anything short of that will help in America?
    i don't think America has a violence problem because they have guns. you have countries like Finland with a ton of guns and the same violence doesn't exist; you have countries like, oh, Russia where the laws are much stricter but the violence problem is WORSE.

    obviously i am biased for a reason, but i want to address social issues that cause the trouble, not freak out about guns guns guns
  • GSonIIGSonII Posts: 2,689 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2014
    Hilary is ignorant. She is also power and control hungry just like most politicians. She does not know anything to do other than label more people dangerous. That's her big idea, even when the current labeling is not effective. She simply wants you to give government more power and control over who owns guns so that they can eventually get it to no-one other than the police has guns.

    The media is making a fool of fools trying to tie these mass shootings to mental health issues. When mental health is not even a legit field. They don't even have tests to prove that mental illnesses nor chemical imbalances exist. It is the perfect lie to tell a fool.

  • earth two supermanearth two superman ladies please dont fight. E2S is here all night! Posts: 17,149 ✭✭✭✭✭
    bunch of black joe the plumbers in this thread. " your dead kids don’t trump my Constitutional rights."
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    Mainstream_rap_sucksSoloman_The_Wise
  • Black Boy KingBlack Boy King Posts: 6,984 ✭✭✭✭✭
    bunch of black joe the plumbers in this thread. " your dead kids don’t trump my Constitutional rights."

    What do dead kids have to do with constitutional rights?
    Soloman_The_Wise
  • Swiffness!Swiffness! PART OF THE CONSPIRACY Posts: 10,128 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "The nationwide gun death rate was 10.38 per 100,000. The total number of Americans killed by gunfire rose to 32,351 in 2011 from 31,672 in 2010.

    America’s gun death rates — both nationwide and in the states — dwarf those of most other Western industrialized nations. The gun death rate in the United Kingdom in 2011 was 0.23 per 100,000 while in Australia it was 0.86 per 100,000."


    I'm really done with both sides of the debate. We're clearly just accustomed to the concept of mowing each other down like dogs in the country. H Rap Brown told the truth when he said violence is as American as cherry pie. No other nation on Earth was crazy enough to make gun ownership an individual, absolute, RIGHT. In other high firearm ownership countries - the ones that aren't war-torn hellholes - your gun ownership is CONDITIONAL on you being a non-crazy fuck who can demonstrate that they can actually use it responsibly. The Founding Fathers fucked up and had no idea what they were doing because they were old slave owning crackas living in the 18th Century - not these All Knowing Wise Philosopher Gods that motherfuckers try to make them out to be. If their opinions about the Right To Vote are any indication, they would've written the 2nd Amendment way differently or trashed it altogether the moment you showed them a modern pistol than doesn't take a half fucking hour to reload.

    As a result, any REAL gun control is impossible in this country because REAL gun control means little to no guns. No getting around that. Thugs in Britain can barely get their hands on a modified starter pistol when they wanna clap someone. But with centuries of gun culture and literally hundreds of millions of guns floating around, ha, good luck trying that in America without Drug War 2 at best and Civil War 2 at worst. It's impossible. The best you can do is enforce what laws you have more tightly, increase background checks, increase penalties for straw purchases (iirc the worst a gun shop owner can get for this is like 6 months in jail and a $20k fine SMH), MASSIVELY increase mental health resources, etc.

    The Left doesn't understand this point. They really think some piddly-ass shit outlawing little things here and there that gun manufacturers can easily sneak around anyway will make some huge difference. They really think outlawing guns in one city inside a large state full of guns will fix things lol. Magic Wands seem to be very popular in Gun Control Land. You ask them about Adam Lanza's "assault" rifle being legal under the state and federal AWBs and they stare at you blankly before muttering something.
    how many people are killed by assault rifles every year compared to the total gun deaths?

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    The truth is, The Left had sorta given up on Gun Control for pragmatic reasons until a gun nut (and Worst Mom Ever™) let her psycho son steal her rifle and mow down a few dozen toddlers. Now, they know they can't get anything passed, but they're happy to point out how utterly fucked our society is and laugh at Janklow when he shoots himself in the foot during a drunken bar argument.

    AND THEN THERE'S THE RIGHT WING....

    I mean we already know these people are beyond crazy and basically a few decades and 9/11 sequels away from supporting genocide of every brown person in this country, but they really wanna pretend that an ideal human society is one where every man, woman, and child is strapped up and constantly ready to shoot the next man when they get outta line. They really think this is desirable outside of say, a lawless post-apocalyptic wasteland.

    They actually EMBRACE the 'Wild West' argument and cite it as proof that everyone being armed can lead to safety. Nevermind that you strapped up in the Wild West because there was no other way to prevent bandits and indian tribes from skinning your ass alive because it literally WAS a lawless wasteland. The whole fucking point of a CIVILIZATION is that average people can feel safe enough to go about their business without having to worry about killing to stay alive 24/7.

    I swear, its like they want Americans to be this Klingon warrior race where every child is trained from birth to kill like that Kurt Russell flick "Soldier".

    They also refuse to admit that guns also make suicide easier. That "if they wanna do it, they'll do it anyway" shit is disproven by psychologists - suicide is almost always impulsive and a gun is like a "Quit Game?" button. Same reason San Francisco is barbaric for not constructing a suicide barrier on the Golden Gate Bridge decades ago.
    internet-reality.gif
    Soloman_The_WiseMainstream_rap_sucks
  • Swiffness! wrote: »
    "The nationwide gun death rate was 10.38 per 100,000. The total number of Americans killed by gunfire rose to 32,351 in 2011 from 31,672 in 2010.

    America’s gun death rates — both nationwide and in the states — dwarf those of most other Western industrialized nations. The gun death rate in the United Kingdom in 2011 was 0.23 per 100,000 while in Australia it was 0.86 per 100,000."


    I'm really done with both sides of the debate. We're clearly just accustomed to the concept of mowing each other down like dogs in the country. H Rap Brown told the truth when he said violence is as American as cherry pie. No other nation on Earth was crazy enough to make gun ownership an individual, absolute, RIGHT. In other high firearm ownership countries - the ones that aren't war-torn hellholes - your gun ownership is CONDITIONAL on you being a non-crazy fuck who can demonstrate that they can actually use it responsibly. The Founding Fathers fucked up and had no idea what they were doing because they were old slave owning crackas living in the 18th Century - not these All Knowing Wise Philosopher Gods that motherfuckers try to make them out to be. If their opinions about the Right To Vote are any indication, they would've written the 2nd Amendment way differently or trashed it altogether the moment you showed them a modern pistol than doesn't take a half fucking hour to reload.

    As a result, any REAL gun control is impossible in this country because REAL gun control means little to no guns. No getting around that. Thugs in Britain can barely get their hands on a modified starter pistol when they wanna clap someone. But with centuries of gun culture and literally hundreds of millions of guns floating around, ha, good luck trying that in America without Drug War 2 at best and Civil War 2 at worst. It's impossible. The best you can do is enforce what laws you have more tightly, increase background checks, increase penalties for straw purchases (iirc the worst a gun shop owner can get for this is like 6 months in jail and a $20k fine SMH), MASSIVELY increase mental health resources, etc.

    The Left doesn't understand this point. They really think some piddly-ass shit outlawing little things here and there that gun manufacturers can easily sneak around anyway will make some huge difference. They really think outlawing guns in one city inside a large state full of guns will fix things lol. Magic Wands seem to be very popular in Gun Control Land. You ask them about Adam Lanza's "assault" rifle being legal under the state and federal AWBs and they stare at you blankly before muttering something.
    how many people are killed by assault rifles every year compared to the total gun deaths?

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    The truth is, The Left had sorta given up on Gun Control for pragmatic reasons until a gun nut (and Worst Mom Ever™) let her psycho son steal her rifle and mow down a few dozen toddlers. Now, they know they can't get anything passed, but they're happy to point out how utterly fucked our society is and laugh at Janklow when he shoots himself in the foot during a drunken bar argument.

    AND THEN THERE'S THE RIGHT WING....

    I mean we already know these people are beyond crazy and basically a few decades and 9/11 sequels away from supporting genocide of every brown person in this country, but they really wanna pretend that an ideal human society is one where every man, woman, and child is strapped up and constantly ready to shoot the next man when they get outta line. They really think this is desirable outside of say, a lawless post-apocalyptic wasteland.

    They actually EMBRACE the 'Wild West' argument and cite it as proof that everyone being armed can lead to safety. Nevermind that you strapped up in the Wild West because there was no other way to prevent bandits and indian tribes from skinning your ass alive because it literally WAS a lawless wasteland. The whole fucking point of a CIVILIZATION is that average people can feel safe enough to go about their business without having to worry about killing to stay alive 24/7.

    I swear, its like they want Americans to be this Klingon warrior race where every child is trained from birth to kill like that Kurt Russell flick "Soldier".

    They also refuse to admit that guns also make suicide easier. That "if they wanna do it, they'll do it anyway" shit is disproven by psychologists - suicide is almost always impulsive and a gun is like a "Quit Game?" button. Same reason San Francisco is barbaric for not constructing a suicide barrier on the Golden Gate Bridge decades ago.

    they embrace all kinds of crazy arguments. i agree that suggesting little to no guns would result in a civil war, because people cling to this belief that the liberals are out to round them up like jews to cook them, so they need assault rifles, like that would protect them against a standing army coming to take them. also what you said about the founding fathers and people idolizing them was fully on point

    but im not convinced that a few things being tighter and more strongly enforced could go a long way. the two things that would prevent someone from killing someone would be the fear of being killed in the process and the fear of jail being a result, so if we could really trace guns to people and confiscate ones that arent registered, but also make it less difficult for anyone to have a gun, i think those two factors could help the problem, not fully, but at least bring the rate of violence down significantly.
  • janklowjanklow god's lonely man. Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    bunch of black joe the plumbers in this thread. " your dead kids don’t trump my Constitutional rights."
    well, they don't. but it's not like saying "Joe the Plumber said something rude" is an argument that my rights should be infringed either.

  • janklowjanklow god's lonely man. Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    Swiffness! wrote: »
    "The nationwide gun death rate was 10.38 per 100,000. The total number of Americans killed by gunfire rose to 32,351 in 2011 from 31,672 in 2010.
    America’s gun death rates — both nationwide and in the states — dwarf those of most other Western industrialized nations. The gun death rate in the United Kingdom in 2011 was 0.23 per 100,000 while in Australia it was 0.86 per 100,000."
    do these numbers include suicides? because if they do ... and i think we both know that they do ... then let's remove them from the numbers and see where we stand.
    Swiffness! wrote: »
    The best you can do is enforce what laws you have more tightly, increase background checks, increase penalties for straw purchases (iirc the worst a gun shop owner can get for this is like 6 months in jail and a $20k fine SMH), MASSIVELY increase mental health resources, etc.
    no, you can get slammed worse than that for a straw purchase. but it's not really about licensed dealers unless the dealer is literally doing the fictitious purchase.

    but really, maybe we could also do shit like end the War on Drugs and see if that helps.
    Swiffness! wrote: »
    The Left doesn't understand this point. They really think some piddly-ass shit outlawing little things here and there that gun manufacturers can easily sneak around anyway will make some huge difference.
    but there's also something you're overlooking here: some of these people WANT your huge sweeping bans and are more about lying and making ridiculous claims than thinking some little things here and there will make a difference. that's why politicians like Feinstein trot out the exact same "BAN ALL THIS SHIT" legislation in response to ANYTHING, no matter what.
    Swiffness! wrote: »
    The truth is, The Left had sorta given up on Gun Control for pragmatic reasons until a gun nut (and Worst Mom Ever™) let her psycho son steal her rifle and mow down a few dozen toddlers. Now, they know they can't get anything passed-
    so people on the left like to say "since Newton, gun laws have only been relaxed!" bullshit. they didn't get relaxed in MD or NY or CT or NJ or CA or CO or... well, i think you see my point.
    Swiffness! wrote: »
    I mean we already know these people are beyond crazy and basically a few decades and 9/11 sequels away from supporting genocide of every brown person in this country, but they really wanna pretend that an ideal human society is one where every man, woman, and child is strapped up and constantly ready to shoot the next man when they get outta line. They really think this is desirable outside of say, a lawless post-apocalyptic wasteland.
    personally, i just want them to stop banning my guns, stop banning my magazines, and stop making me pay fees designed solely to punish me and jump through unnecessary hoops. i'll settle for that instead of the wasteland.
    Swiffness! wrote: »
    They also refuse to admit that guns also make suicide easier. That "if they wanna do it, they'll do it anyway" shit is disproven by psychologists - suicide is almost always impulsive and a gun is like a "Quit Game?" button.
    no, i admit they make it easier. i also think you have the right to kill yourself if you really want. and i ALSO think it's complete bullshit to count suicides in the "killed by gunfire" numbers, but hey.

  • janklowjanklow god's lonely man. Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    but im not convinced that a few things being tighter and more strongly enforced could go a long way. the two things that would prevent someone from killing someone would be the fear of being killed in the process and the fear of jail being a result, so if we could really trace guns to people and confiscate ones that arent registered, but also make it less difficult for anyone to have a gun, i think those two factors could help the problem, not fully, but at least bring the rate of violence down significantly.
    if you build your pipe dream registration system, it WILL be abused to fuck with people down the line. just sayin'.

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