Educate Me On The Origins Of The White Jew/Hebrew
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I can't seem to find any reliable or consensual information on the subject of how these particular Caucasians came to be defined and internationally recognized as the original Hebrews from scripture (when used outside of strict religious context.) This isn't a religion based thread, but rather a matter of anthropology, so please use sources outside of scripture if possible. I'm not really looking for proof of how they aren't the original Hebrews (for example, the descriptions of these people in the scriptures which don't fit these Caucasians,) but rather who they really are.
I'm specifically interested in the time frame of "mass conversion," their native land, and the process of how they came to be known as the true Hebrews as viewed by the world at large.
Please drop whatever sources you can as well, for the purpose of further study and analyzation of info presented by others.
I understand this thread is predicated on an assumption that the current worldview is incorrect, so if you have reason to believe otherwise outside of conjecture, please feel free to drop what you without derailing the convo (or point out that the thread premise isn't based on anything at this point. Start a new thread if that's what you'd like to discuss.)
Let's all stay on topic please, and thanks in advance for any info.
I'm specifically interested in the time frame of "mass conversion," their native land, and the process of how they came to be known as the true Hebrews as viewed by the world at large.
Please drop whatever sources you can as well, for the purpose of further study and analyzation of info presented by others.
I understand this thread is predicated on an assumption that the current worldview is incorrect, so if you have reason to believe otherwise outside of conjecture, please feel free to drop what you without derailing the convo (or point out that the thread premise isn't based on anything at this point. Start a new thread if that's what you'd like to discuss.)
Let's all stay on topic please, and thanks in advance for any info.
Comments
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Check out Arthur Koestler's book "The Thirteenth Tribe."
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Most of these converts were Khazars that migrated thru parts of Eastern Europe and Asia. Basically pre-Russian Russians. That's the gist of it, but there's a LOT more to it. Also your Woody Allen type jews were converts from Germany and other European countries.
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Read up on the Khazars, that's who they were before they adopted Judaism.
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I've seen a lot of online sources bring up Khazars as the ancestors of the modern Ashkenazi Jews, but then there's just as many sources disputing it, and neither side seems to have a great deal of solid historical records (online anyway) to back anything up. Even DNA "proof" from both sides seems to be highly skewed in application.
I made the thread because while my intuition is telling me that the Khazar case seems legit, and that the disputes are likely disinformation created by those that would wish to keep that info secret, I still can't bring myself to fully accept that without some historical sources to back it up. It just seems odd since the matter only apparently dates back to the 8th century at the earliest, and neither side can produce solid records on anything.
I'll check out that book, though, as it would seem that search engines aren't very helpful here.
Any other books or just knowledge anyone wants to drop is still very much appreciated. -
going to be honest: given how popular this theory is on the internet, it's probably the other way aroundI made the thread because while my intuition is telling me that the Khazar case seems legit, and that the disputes are likely disinformation created by those that would wish to keep that info secret
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going to be honest: given how popular this theory is on the internet, it's probably the other way aroundI made the thread because while my intuition is telling me that the Khazar case seems legit, and that the disputes are likely disinformation created by those that would wish to keep that info secret
What makes it so probable? -
percentage of questionable opinions found on the internetWhat makes it so probable?
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Simple matter really, follow the languege, "Yidish", is basically ol dutch/german Gypsy babble lol. West Rijnland people. They adopted the hebrew alphabet and converted to judaism. (pretty much like how non arab countries adapted the arab alphabet or how many countries adopted the roman alphabet).
not that complex, general knowledgde out in Holland/Germany actually.
to this day, there are still many Gypsie people all over Europe. -
What percentage is it?
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The gypsies come from India
But the white jews ddon't really look Indian -
Read the Torah
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Or read my Hebrew thread you find the answer
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The gypsies come from India
But the white jews ddon't really look Indian
there are many different kinds of gypsie groups natives to europe. Basically every nation has its gypsies lol. I believe the Roma originally came from India though, if those are the gypsies you meant.
in dutch we call them Zigeuners lol. -
The gypsies come from India
But the white jews ddon't really look Indian
there are many different kinds of gypsie groups natives to europe. Basically every nation has its gypsies lol. I believe the Roma originally came from India though, if those are the gypsies you meant.
in dutch we call them Zigeuners lol.
I thought they were all Roma
Is there a difference between the Gypsies in Holland and the ones the Nazis were exterminating? -
Nah bro, gypsies are basically stateless people, eventhough a lot (like in holland for example "kampers") are people that have a passport and all that, but they refuse to pay taxes and/or live in kamps/tents, or mobile homes. Traveling from site to site, allmost like circusfolk.
The Nazis exterminated gypsies/jews, any minority or groups that they wanted. %wise the death toll of dutch jews and gypsies are amongst the highest of all countries in ww2. Many dutch people(part of the NSB) were down with the Nazis. -
I'm still looking for ancient Hebrew dna. I don't ? with them though.
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Uncle_Jackson wrote: »I'm still looking for ancient Hebrew dna. I don't ? with them though.I've seen a lot of online sources bring up Khazars as the ancestors of the modern Ashkenazi Jews, but then there's just as many sources disputing it, and neither side seems to have a great deal of solid historical records (online anyway) to back anything up. Even DNA "proof" from both sides seems to be highly skewed in application.
I made the thread because while my intuition is telling me that the Khazar case seems legit, and that the disputes are likely disinformation created by those that would wish to keep that info secret, I still can't bring myself to fully accept that without some historical sources to back it up. It just seems odd since the matter only apparently dates back to the 8th century at the earliest, and neither side can produce solid records on anything.
I'll check out that book, though, as it would seem that search engines aren't very helpful here.
Any other books or just knowledge anyone wants to drop is still very much appreciated.Highlight: Out of Khazaria—Evidence for “Jewish Genome” Lacking
Danielle Venton*
↵*Corresponding author: E-mail: danielle.venton@gmail.com.
Accepted December 20, 2012.
Hebrew language and Jewish culture have been around for thousands of years. For much of that history, the Jews managed to maintain their heritage and cultural identity in the absence of a geographical state. Wanderings, settlements, and dispersal were thus a big part of their history. Is evidence for that history preserved in genome data?
Eran Elhaik, a geneticist at the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health, thinks so. In a recently published study in Genome Biology Evolution (Elhaik 2012), he is calling for a rewrite of commonly held assumptions about Jewish ancestry. Instead of being primarily the descendants of the 12 tribes of Israel, present-day Jewish populations are, finds Elhaik, primarily the children of a Turkish people who lived in what is now Russia, north of Georgia, east of Ukraine. This civilization, the Khazars, converted from tribal religions to Judaism between the 7th and 9th centuries.
The controversy cut into by Elhaik's work runs deep, far past the lab bench. Among some circles, his conclusions are bound to be unpopular. “This is the first scientific paper to prove the Khazarian Hypothesis and reject the Rhineland Hypothesis,” he says, “and with it about 40 years of research.” Although his findings will not be welcome in all circles, Elhaik's interest is more medical than political.
http://gbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/5/1/75.full
The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses
Eran Elhaik1,2,*
+ Author Affiliations
1Department of Mental Health, Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg School of Public Health
2McKusick-Nathans Institute of Genetic Medicine, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine
↵*Corresponding author: E-mail: eelhaik@jhsph.edu.
Accepted December 5, 2012.
http://gbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/5/1/61
Where are The Ten Lost Tribes of Israel?
http://www.geni.com/projects/Where-are-The-Ten-Lost-Tribes-of-Israel/3474 -
So what are the hebrew haplogroup, no one gives me that.
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Uncle_Jackson wrote: »So what are the hebrew haplogroup, no one gives me that.
To my knowledge (and I could be wrong), there hasn't been any tests done only on Black Americans (where the results have been made public), testing them for the Hebrew haplogroups, with the results either rejecting or confirming the connection.
However, there have been tests done on European Jews currently in Israel, that contradicts their assertion that they are the direct descendants of ancient Israelites.
Haplogroup J-M267
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J1_(Y-DNA)
The Original Genetic Study on Sephardic Jewish Ancestry in The Dominican Republic - Results
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/dominicansephardim/default.aspx?section=results
A MOSAIC OF PEOPLE: THE JEWISH STORY AND A REASSESSMENT OF THE DNA EVIDENCE
http://www.jogg.info/11/coffman.htm
Charting the Ancestry of African Americans
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1275617/
Israelite and Noahic Haplogroup Hypothesis
http://jewsandjoes.com/israelite-and-noahic-haplogroup-hypotheses.html
The DNA of Albert Perry may change the story of human origins. Perry was an African-American born into slavery in South Carolina. An analysis of the DNA of his descendants produced results that came as quite a surprise and have raised questions for geneticists around the world.
https://theconversation.com/albert-and-adam-rewrite-the-story-of-human-origins-15835
Genes Tell Tale of Jewish Ties to Africa
Exchange Between Groups Took Place About 2,000 Years Ago
http://forward.com/articles/140721/genes-tell-tale-of-jewish-ties-to-africa/Lachish relief:
Stone panel from the South-West Palace of Sennacherib
The story continues from the previous panel (no. 9) of the relief. This section decorated a corner of the room.
Having been exiled from their city, the people of Lachish move through the countryside to be resettled elsewhere in the Assyrian Empire. Below them high officials and foreigners are being tortured and executed. It is likely that they are being flayed alive.
The foreigners are possibly officers from Nubia. The Nubians were seen as sharing responsibility for the rebellion. Much of Egypt at this time was ruled by a line of kings from Nubia (the Twenty-fifth Dynasty) who were keen to interfere in the politics of the Levant, to contain the threat of Assyrian expansion.
As Sennacherib's forces laid siege to Lachish, an Egyptian army appeared, led by a man called Taharqa, according to the Old Testament. He may be the later pharaoh of Egypt with the same name (690-664 BC).
Sennacherib's account claims that the rebels had called on the support of the kings of Egypt (Delta princes) and the Kings of Kush (Nubia). The armies clashed on the plain of Eltekeh. While Sennacherib claimed victory, he was still not able to capture Jerusalem.
The story continues on the next panel (no. 11) of the relief.
http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_objects/me/s/panel,_palace_of_sennacherib-4.aspx -
Hmm, so the dna of the ancient Hebrews is J1 so then African Americans do not possess the dna to be those people.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews
European Jews break into a few groups Ashkenazi Jews have paternal links to the Mid East but maternal links to Europe. This indicates this group was mostly male and these males found mates from the surrounding population.
The Khazar link and the convert origin is debunk by DNA evidence. If you actually read some of Cobbland links you find things like this
"Additionally, many other haplogroups among the Ashkenazim, and among the Cohanim in particular, appear to be of Israelite/Middle Eastern origin."
DNA and language both support the conclusion that most modern Jews have ancestral ties to ancient Hebrews. -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews
European Jews break into a few groups Ashkenazi Jews have paternal links to the Mid East but maternal links to Europe. This indicates this group was mostly male and these males found mates from the surrounding population.
The Khazar link and the convert origin is debunk by DNA evidence. If you actually read some of Cobbland links you find things like this
"Additionally, many other haplogroups among the Ashkenazim, and among the Cohanim in particular, appear to be of Israelite/Middle Eastern origin."
DNA and language both support the conclusion that most modern Jews have ancestral ties to ancient Hebrews.
False....the modern Jew have no ties to ancient Hebrews, not only DNA testing already proved it many of times also but Scripture don't lie -
I can not speak to the validity of scripture but the DNA shows ties to the Levant. If you want to argue against facts go ahead but I have no desire too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94CWcNmoyZ4