Did the book of Exodus really happen?

soul rattler
soul rattler Members Posts: 18,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited August 2014 in The Social Lounge
Why is there no proof of the supposed plagues, a parted Red Sea, Jewish slaves in Egypt, Moses, etc?

Why does the bible mention Egyptian cities that didn't even exist at the same time?

How could thousands of people live wandering through a desert for 40 years?

Somebody get in here and make up an excuse for this imaginary tale.
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Comments

  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 Members Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No thread needed but let the feelings be felt.
  • bignorm
    bignorm Members Posts: 5,410 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Did the Trojan War really happen?
  • The_Jackal
    The_Jackal Members Posts: 3,628 ✭✭✭✭✭
    1 Faith. Though their is proof of Jewish Shepard being in the area.

    2. It was the more widely known name so the scribes used it.

    3 They didnt. Most of them died.
  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 Members Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Exodus the story is fiction but the Hebrews did live there but not as slaves but conquerors.
  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    the story is most likely a disjointed tale of events that really happened to people living in egypt that descended from immigrants to that land.
  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    i mean, i am sure there ARE people who take every word of the Bible as literal, but somehow i suspect it's not a majority opinion even among religious types. just seems a little desperate, man
  • soul rattler
    soul rattler Members Posts: 18,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • LUClEN
    LUClEN Members Posts: 20,559 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It did happen and I can prove it


    It says so right in this book
  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 Members Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why is there no proof of the supposed plagues, a parted Red Sea, Jewish slaves in Egypt, Moses, etc?

    Why does the bible mention Egyptian cities that didn't even exist at the same time?

    How could thousands of people live wandering through a desert for 40 years?

    Somebody get in here and make up an excuse for this imaginary tale.

    The reason the cities were named but didn't exist at the time comes down to the Roman adaptation of the Septaguint, which was basically the Greek name for their translation of the Bible. So in the translation process they changed the names from what they were originally to what they became known as and were called by the Romans.

    Do you know a proper translated Hebrew Bible, I remember @waterproof said something about it and @judahxulu‌
  • The_Jackal
    The_Jackal Members Posts: 3,628 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ignore everything else except one statement I made in order to discredit the legitimate points I made. Faith is one of the major tenants of Christianity can't be one without having faith. I personally think the number was overestimate d
  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 Members Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    Ignore everything else except one statement I made in order to discredit the legitimate points I made. Faith is one of the major tenants of Christianity can't be one without having faith. I personally think the number was overestimate d

    Grossly overestimated too, I think there was like 10,000. But the archeology is interesting.
  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 Members Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The thing is the hyskos weren't that big
  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 Members Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why is there no proof of the supposed plagues, a parted Red Sea, Jewish slaves in Egypt, Moses, etc?

    Why does the bible mention Egyptian cities that didn't even exist at the same time?

    How could thousands of people live wandering through a desert for 40 years?

    Somebody get in here and make up an excuse for this imaginary tale.

    The reason the cities were named but didn't exist at the time comes down to the Roman adaptation of the Septaguint, which was basically the Greek name for their translation of the Bible. So in the translation process they changed the names from what they were originally to what they became known as and were called by the Romans.

    Do you know a proper translated Hebrew Bible, I remember @waterproof said something about it and @judahxulu‌

    http://www.mechanical-translation.org/

    They sell a book, but if you just want a straight link to the Tanakh in full...

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Bible/jpstoc.html

    Thanks bro, I appreciate it!
  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 Members Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    After reading some of the translation, i have more questions. So I take it there were humans prior to Adama but he was different and eden was definitely in africa.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In before Waterproof mentions the Armenians
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 Members Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Also, that Yahweh isn't the only Elohim. In fact it appears to be a race after studying from what I head on Canaan history. It's interesting.
  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 Members Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm going to get this book though. So much information and researching that Abraham was related to the hyskos kings
  • soul rattler
    soul rattler Members Posts: 18,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    janklow wrote: »
    i mean, i am sure there ARE people who take every word of the Bible as literal, but somehow i suspect it's not a majority opinion even among religious types. just seems a little desperate, man

    I would bet money that any person that goes on television saying that the story of Exodus did not actually happen would be called anti-Semetic. The bible was meant to be taken literally, whether you agree it's ? or not.
    Why is there no proof of the supposed plagues, a parted Red Sea, Jewish slaves in Egypt, Moses, etc?

    Why does the bible mention Egyptian cities that didn't even exist at the same time?

    How could thousands of people live wandering through a desert for 40 years?

    Somebody get in here and make up an excuse for this imaginary tale.

    The reason the cities were named but didn't exist at the time comes down to the Roman adaptation of the Septaguint, which was basically the Greek name for their translation of the Bible. So in the translation process they changed the names from what they were originally to what they became known as and were called by the Romans.

    So, at best, it was an inaccurate description of events that may or may not have occurred. Nice.
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    Ignore everything else except one statement I made in order to discredit the legitimate points I made. Faith is one of the major tenants of Christianity can't be one without having faith. I personally think the number was overestimate d

    Faith is not a necessity in acknowledging historical events. All you need are facts.
  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 Members Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Abraham was basically the surviving son of a dead empire, an uncrowned king empowered by divine right, so basically the story is really about testing his devotion to his divine right by being willing to ? his sole potential rival, his own son and heir, and by showing that abject devotion he was promised a new empire that would last through the ages. That empire is still going based on faith. It's all adapted allegorical tales of previous faiths.

    From that debate link...
    Saint Augustine, the eminent early Church leader, himself admitted "That which is known as the Christian religion existed among the ancients, and never did not exist", i.e. that christianity is simply a retelling of the ancient savior mythologies that have always existed among civilizations. The Christian Father Justin Martyr (c. 100-165 CE) even admitted that christianity offered nothing new that did not exist in ancient pagan religions. In Justin Martyr's First Apology and his Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, Justin Martyr admits to similarities between Christianity and the many ancient savior gods; he admits to ? births, of miraculous healings, and deaths and resurrections, of other savior gods outside of christianity (e.g. Justin admits to Hercules' ? birth, resurrection, and ascension to heaven. Justin admits to Perseus' ? birth, and how Aesculapius raised the dead and did miraculous healings and imitated the prophecies about Christ). Lactantius (240-330 CE), an early Church writer, wrote, so as to convince the pagan elite to convert to christianity, about how the ancient pagan savior-? stories were proof that christianity was a valid religion, since christianity was thus as valid as those religions

    So it's basically a case of "well they told a story, why can't I? WTF is plagiarism? It's inspiration and a homage!" but then in later years it turned into a case of trying to claiming original ownership. It's why the Romans feared the Moors so much when they came as conquerors, why they destroyed and "reinterpreted" so many texts, why the different empires fought for influence using the same basic ideals, whether Byzantine or Roman or any other.

    It all seems to be originally rooted in Akkadian myths.

    Right. That's really dope!
  • soul rattler
    soul rattler Members Posts: 18,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Abraham was basically the surviving son of a dead empire, an uncrowned king empowered by divine right, so basically the story is really about testing his devotion to his divine right by being willing to ? his sole potential rival, his own son and heir, and by showing that abject devotion he was promised a new empire that would last through the ages. That empire is still going based on faith. It's all adapted allegorical tales of previous faiths.

    From that debate link...
    Saint Augustine, the eminent early Church leader, himself admitted "That which is known as the Christian religion existed among the ancients, and never did not exist", i.e. that christianity is simply a retelling of the ancient savior mythologies that have always existed among civilizations. The Christian Father Justin Martyr (c. 100-165 CE) even admitted that christianity offered nothing new that did not exist in ancient pagan religions. In Justin Martyr's First Apology and his Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, Justin Martyr admits to similarities between Christianity and the many ancient savior gods; he admits to ? births, of miraculous healings, and deaths and resurrections, of other savior gods outside of christianity (e.g. Justin admits to Hercules' ? birth, resurrection, and ascension to heaven. Justin admits to Perseus' ? birth, and how Aesculapius raised the dead and did miraculous healings and imitated the prophecies about Christ). Lactantius (240-330 CE), an early Church writer, wrote, so as to convince the pagan elite to convert to christianity, about how the ancient pagan savior-? stories were proof that christianity was a valid religion, since christianity was thus as valid as those religions

    So it's basically a case of "well they told a story, why can't I? WTF is plagiarism? It's inspiration and a homage!" but then in later years it turned into a case of trying to claiming original ownership. It's why the Romans feared the Moors so much when they came as conquerors, why they destroyed and "reinterpreted" so many texts, why the different empires fought for influence using the same basic ideals, whether Byzantine or Roman or any other.

    It all seems to be originally rooted in Akkadian myths.

    [img]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/1635874/oh-? -o.gif[/img]
    bomb-explosion-o.gif

    If this doesn't hurt some feelings or change some minds, nothing will.
  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2014
    The story of the bible is really the story of gods creation of a people, an ethnic group that he would use to bring knowledge of who he is to the whole world . ? basically made these people nomads so of course you are going to have bits and pieces of all kinds of belief from all over the area.

    now if you believe in this ? then that creates no problem for you but if you don't well then you are going to see a problem with how the religion was created
  • soul rattler
    soul rattler Members Posts: 18,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zombie wrote: »
    The story of the bible is really the story of gods creation of a people, an ethnic group that he would use to bring knowledge of who he is to the whole world . ? basically made these people nomads so of course you are going to have bits and pieces of all kinds of belief from all over the area.

    now if you believe in this ? then that creates no problem for you but if you don't well then you are going to see a problem with how the religion was created

    Here you go apologizing again. Christianity presumes monotheism to be the legitimate state of godhood. That alone is in direct contradiction to earlier Afrikan, Asian, and European folklore which Christianity "borrows" heavily from.
  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 Members Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm doing research right now and try to find a way to download the mechanical bible now, ? really put things in a total perspective.
  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 Members Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think by reading the original hebrew text it kinda confirms that the hebrew people didn't in a one ? , but supreme ? , but they believe that other gods existed and knew of their existence, but only bowed to Yahwah. I think that thinking is really changes everything and plus the fact they weren't the first ones with monotheism in fact it was Kemet.