BLACK FOLKS: IF THE G'MENT OFFERED YOU 1MILL TO LEAVE AMERICA TO GO TO AFRICA AND NEVER COME BACK
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JerryfromJerz wrote: »NothingButTheTruth wrote: »
Of course you can trace the roots of hip-hop back to Africa. You can trace alot of our culture back to Africa...we did in fact come from Africa. No denying that.
America is home to 30,000 Black millionaires out of 42 million total black people. The entire continent of Africa has 1.6 billion people and only 100,000 millionaires (even including non-black Arabs, and whites that moved to Africa). If you really think Black people are in control of the majority of Africa I suggest you do some research. The same war that exists on Black people in U.S. exists in Africa, don't be delusional.
You don't think exploitation exists in Africa at the hands of Europeans and now Chinese on an extremely large scale? Do some research on who's getting rich off of the resources of Africa. Also, please don't compare what happened in Ferguson to some of the violence that happens in Africa to Africans. Alot of these new nations are still dealing with problems that were created during the colonialism era. Of course that's not the entire continent but I don't see what you're getting at when you bring up Ferguson.
What is this "move the goal post" style of posting you're using? Stay in the context of what this thread is about.
Are you forgetting that we start with a million US dollars on top of our current net worth before we make the trip? So the millionaire thing doesn't mean anything in the context of this thread, nor does being a millionaire mean the same thing in certain countries in Africa vs. the US, given important factors like the cost of living and currency conversion.
Not to mention, what does how many millionaire stats have to do with how well a nation is doing as a people? If everyone becomes a millionaire, the market adjusts, prices shoot up, purchasing power shoots down.
... My post was comparing the 2 situations. No one said exploitation didn't exist, I said there is a war on black people in the US and we're not even the majority, so we are at a lost no matter which way we try to move. In comparison to Africa and certain countries in Africa, where we are by far the majority.
The Ferguson thing was to show the blatant racism and how they have no problem escalating any issue when it comes to us and only us. It supports my war on black people statement. It has nothing to do with violence in certain areas in Africa, because once again, you can choose which country, city, neighborhood you live in. No one said you have to live in a war driven village, going through civil war.
Everything in my post was a direct response to each point you made.I didn't "move any goal posts". I brought up millionaires to counter where you said "So yeah, I don't see how the U.S is any better for us than Africa. Africa has a long list of black presidents or people in power, plenty of opportunity business-wise, limitless potential, and black is the norm. "
Also this Africa that you dream of where everybody is united and there's one Black African race working for the greater good of all Black people isn't what the situation is. Each African nation is home to various ethnic groups and tribes that are in many cases working to better their own situation. There's discrimination and conflicts that happen within the Black race in Africa. There's examples of systematic oppression that Blacks impose on other Blacks. My point is that everything you're running from by leaving America, you can find examples of over there. So I'm saying if that's why you're leaving then it's not a good reason. Africa isn't hell on earth at all--but it has its share of challenges as well.
I've heard Ghana is a great place though so :shrug:
My main issue was with people saying that Blacks didn't help build this country or that we haven't built anything worthwhile here. Hence I point out the amount of Black millionaires, which per capita is way more than the amount of millionaires in Africa. You accused me of looking down on Blacks, while in the same post you deny the existence of a distinct African-American culture. It seems to me you're looking down on Blacks in America while bigging up those in Africa. I'm not looking down on anybody, just don't ? on what we've accomplished as a people in this nation. Our ancestors deserve better.
Again what are tangible results of that tho?
An increased black middle class
A higher amount of black students in college
A higher life expectancy
A higher standard of living on average compared to EVERY country in Africa
Must I go on? We really just gonna ? on Blacks in America here like we just haven't progressed at all.
life expectancy has increased for all people generally speaking.
It's increased at a higher rate for Blacks in America than for those living in Sub-Saharan Africa. Don't just disregard that fact
blacks go to school and learn how to make other people rich because blacks own next to nothing.
So now we're going to minimize the benefits of a college educated population...aite
the so called back middle class is a creation of the government. government jobs made the black middle class.
No they didn't. Government jobs helped create the middle class, along with numerous other factors. But regardless, not getting your point. Are you suggesting that the government contributed directly to upward mobility of Blacks in this country? How dare they
most of the things you mentioned are not a result of black work. they simply come with living in America.
So basically more of you ? on American Blacks, when actually per capita American Blacks are currently the most prosperous Blacks in the entire world. Again, we're nowhere close to where we need to be. But don't say we haven't progressed or haven't worked for what we got.
If Black America was its own country we would be richer per capita than every country in Africa except Equatorial Guinea and that's only slightly. -
JerryfromJerz wrote: »NothingButTheTruth wrote: »
Of course you can trace the roots of hip-hop back to Africa. You can trace alot of our culture back to Africa...we did in fact come from Africa. No denying that.
America is home to 30,000 Black millionaires out of 42 million total black people. The entire continent of Africa has 1.6 billion people and only 100,000 millionaires (even including non-black Arabs, and whites that moved to Africa). If you really think Black people are in control of the majority of Africa I suggest you do some research. The same war that exists on Black people in U.S. exists in Africa, don't be delusional.
You don't think exploitation exists in Africa at the hands of Europeans and now Chinese on an extremely large scale? Do some research on who's getting rich off of the resources of Africa. Also, please don't compare what happened in Ferguson to some of the violence that happens in Africa to Africans. Alot of these new nations are still dealing with problems that were created during the colonialism era. Of course that's not the entire continent but I don't see what you're getting at when you bring up Ferguson.
What is this "move the goal post" style of posting you're using? Stay in the context of what this thread is about.
Are you forgetting that we start with a million US dollars on top of our current net worth before we make the trip? So the millionaire thing doesn't mean anything in the context of this thread, nor does being a millionaire mean the same thing in certain countries in Africa vs. the US, given important factors like the cost of living and currency conversion.
Not to mention, what does how many millionaire stats have to do with how well a nation is doing as a people? If everyone becomes a millionaire, the market adjusts, prices shoot up, purchasing power shoots down.
... My post was comparing the 2 situations. No one said exploitation didn't exist, I said there is a war on black people in the US and we're not even the majority, so we are at a lost no matter which way we try to move. In comparison to Africa and certain countries in Africa, where we are by far the majority.
The Ferguson thing was to show the blatant racism and how they have no problem escalating any issue when it comes to us and only us. It supports my war on black people statement. It has nothing to do with violence in certain areas in Africa, because once again, you can choose which country, city, neighborhood you live in. No one said you have to live in a war driven village, going through civil war.
Everything in my post was a direct response to each point you made.I didn't "move any goal posts". I brought up millionaires to counter where you said "So yeah, I don't see how the U.S is any better for us than Africa. Africa has a long list of black presidents or people in power, plenty of opportunity business-wise, limitless potential, and black is the norm. "
Also this Africa that you dream of where everybody is united and there's one Black African race working for the greater good of all Black people isn't what the situation is. Each African nation is home to various ethnic groups and tribes that are in many cases working to better their own situation. There's discrimination and conflicts that happen within the Black race in Africa. There's examples of systematic oppression that Blacks impose on other Blacks. My point is that everything you're running from by leaving America, you can find examples of over there. So I'm saying if that's why you're leaving then it's not a good reason. Africa isn't hell on earth at all--but it has its share of challenges as well.
I've heard Ghana is a great place though so :shrug:
My main issue was with people saying that Blacks didn't help build this country or that we haven't built anything worthwhile here. Hence I point out the amount of Black millionaires, which per capita is way more than the amount of millionaires in Africa. You accused me of looking down on Blacks, while in the same post you deny the existence of a distinct African-American culture. It seems to me you're looking down on Blacks in America while bigging up those in Africa. I'm not looking down on anybody, just don't ? on what we've accomplished as a people in this nation. Our ancestors deserve better.
Again what are tangible results of that tho?
An increased black middle class
A higher amount of black students in college
A higher life expectancy
A higher standard of living on average compared to EVERY country in Africa
Must I go on? We really just gonna ? on Blacks in America here like we just haven't progressed at all.
life expectancy has increased for all people generally speaking.
It's increased at a higher rate for Blacks in America than for those living in Sub-Saharan Africa. Don't just disregard that fact
blacks go to school and learn how to make other people rich because blacks own next to nothing.
So now we're going to minimize the benefits of a college educated population...aite
the so called back middle class is a creation of the government. government jobs made the black middle class.
No they didn't. Government jobs helped create the middle class, along with numerous other factors. But regardless, not getting your point. Are you suggesting that the government contributed directly to upward mobility of Blacks in this country? How dare they
most of the things you mentioned are not a result of black work. they simply come with living in America.
So basically more of you ? on American Blacks, when actually per capita American Blacks are currently the most prosperous Blacks in the entire world. Again, we're nowhere close to where we need to be. But don't say we haven't progressed or haven't worked for what we got.
If Black America was its own country we would be richer per capita than every country in Africa except Equatorial Guinea and that's only slightly.
I am not ? on you I am just saying that what you have here would pale in comparison.
black people have progressed but it amounts to little because the state is not under your control. -
NothingButTheTruth wrote: »
Of course you can trace the roots of hip-hop back to Africa. You can trace alot of our culture back to Africa...we did in fact come from Africa. No denying that.
America is home to 30,000 Black millionaires out of 42 million total black people. The entire continent of Africa has 1.6 billion people and only 100,000 millionaires (even including non-black Arabs, and whites that moved to Africa). If you really think Black people are in control of the majority of Africa I suggest you do some research. The same war that exists on Black people in U.S. exists in Africa, don't be delusional.
You don't think exploitation exists in Africa at the hands of Europeans and now Chinese on an extremely large scale? Do some research on who's getting rich off of the resources of Africa. Also, please don't compare what happened in Ferguson to some of the violence that happens in Africa to Africans. Alot of these new nations are still dealing with problems that were created during the colonialism era. Of course that's not the entire continent but I don't see what you're getting at when you bring up Ferguson.
What is this "move the goal post" style of posting you're using? Stay in the context of what this thread is about.
Are you forgetting that we start with a million US dollars on top of our current net worth before we make the trip? So the millionaire thing doesn't mean anything in the context of this thread, nor does being a millionaire mean the same thing in certain countries in Africa vs. the US, given important factors like the cost of living and currency conversion.
Not to mention, what does how many millionaire stats have to do with how well a nation is doing as a people? If everyone becomes a millionaire, the market adjusts, prices shoot up, purchasing power shoots down.
... My post was comparing the 2 situations. No one said exploitation didn't exist, I said there is a war on black people in the US and we're not even the majority, so we are at a lost no matter which way we try to move. In comparison to Africa and certain countries in Africa, where we are by far the majority.
The Ferguson thing was to show the blatant racism and how they have no problem escalating any issue when it comes to us and only us. It supports my war on black people statement. It has nothing to do with violence in certain areas in Africa, because once again, you can choose which country, city, neighborhood you live in. No one said you have to live in a war driven village, going through civil war.
Everything in my post was a direct response to each point you made.I didn't "move any goal posts". I brought up millionaires to counter where you said "So yeah, I don't see how the U.S is any better for us than Africa. Africa has a long list of black presidents or people in power, plenty of opportunity business-wise, limitless potential, and black is the norm. "
Also this Africa that you dream of where everybody is united and there's one Black African race working for the greater good of all Black people isn't what the situation is. Each African nation is home to various ethnic groups and tribes that are in many cases working to better their own situation. There's discrimination and conflicts that happen within the Black race in Africa. There's examples of systematic oppression that Blacks impose on other Blacks. My point is that everything you're running from by leaving America, you can find examples of over there. So I'm saying if that's why you're leaving then it's not a good reason. Africa isn't hell on earth at all--but it has its share of challenges as well.
I've heard Ghana is a great place though so :shrug:
My main issue was with people saying that Blacks didn't help build this country or that we haven't built anything worthwhile here. Hence I point out the amount of Black millionaires, which per capita is way more than the amount of millionaires in Africa. You accused me of looking down on Blacks, while in the same post you deny the existence of a distinct African-American culture. It seems to me you're looking down on Blacks in America while bigging up those in Africa. I'm not looking down on anybody, just don't ? on what we've accomplished as a people in this nation. Our ancestors deserve better.
? already forgot about the Hutus and the Tutsis? Hundreds of young girls were snatched off the streets just recently.
So is that all of Africa, or just a section of Nigeria?
Going country by country isn't even necessary. What is relevant however is that this rosy, black paradise you people keep going on about doesn't exist and has never existed.
Y'all really making this conversation more negative than it needs to be. If you guys just understood the big picture that Africa has way more problems culturally, politically, and economically than most of these people are willing to admit.
Folks want to run away from racism but run into tribalism and all sorts of other culture clashes with little understanding of what's going on. -
like I said African-Americans have lots of money but no wealth. the black dollar does not bounce in the community. you own nothing
and ironically Africa seems to have the opposite problem. -
at the end of the day Africa has more potential. all who wants to stay here a pass down the same never ending struggle to future generations good luck to you.
keep being proud of being slaves forever. and defending your ancestors legacy at the expense of your descendants future.
Asians and Hispanics are rapidly increasing in number and influence so I hop you guys will be happy going from top minority to third place. the writing is on the wall
There's a reason why more Africans are immigrating to America than the other way around. And there's a reason why in the chase for prosperity you yourself came to America from Jamaica and didn't go to Africa first.
African economies are absolutely showing potential and growth at great rates, not arguing against that. -
the rosy black paradise is something we have to have the courage to create with the native africans
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at the end of the day Africa has more potential. all who wants to stay here a pass down the same never ending struggle to future generations good luck to you.
keep being proud of being slaves forever. and defending your ancestors legacy at the expense of your descendants future.
Asians and Hispanics are rapidly increasing in number and influence so I hop you guys will be happy going from top minority to third place. the writing is on the wall
There's a reason why more Africans are immigrating to America than the other way around. And there's a reason why in the chase for prosperity you yourself came to America from Jamaica and didn't go to Africa first.
African economies are absolutely showing potential and growth at great rates, not arguing against that.
I didn't go to Africa because I didn't have one million dollars. or the education necessary to use it. I do now.but I'm tied here for now and if I knew what I know now I would have went to Ghana with my brother. -
America makes immigration easy when in comparison to places in Africa. you can't just get up and go to Africa. but you can America. and America wants this because it benefits the state.
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the rosy black paradise is something we have to have the courage to create with the native africans
We need to create that here. There's no guarantee that this hypothetical influx of a foreign millionaire Black-American class into these African nations will not create tension with these native African and further complicate often delicate ethnic/tribal situations. Again, see how Liberia played out. You had Blacks from America coming into an area to build a nation where Black Africans were already living. It ended up becoming extremely tumultuous and civil war plagued the country for 30 + years. All of these people with money simply coming into Africa would create the situation of us being a dominant minority over there, just like African-Americans became in Liberia. That didn't work out for anybody. -
NothingButTheTruth wrote: »
Of course you can trace the roots of hip-hop back to Africa. You can trace alot of our culture back to Africa...we did in fact come from Africa. No denying that.
America is home to 30,000 Black millionaires out of 42 million total black people. The entire continent of Africa has 1.6 billion people and only 100,000 millionaires (even including non-black Arabs, and whites that moved to Africa). If you really think Black people are in control of the majority of Africa I suggest you do some research. The same war that exists on Black people in U.S. exists in Africa, don't be delusional.
You don't think exploitation exists in Africa at the hands of Europeans and now Chinese on an extremely large scale? Do some research on who's getting rich off of the resources of Africa. Also, please don't compare what happened in Ferguson to some of the violence that happens in Africa to Africans. Alot of these new nations are still dealing with problems that were created during the colonialism era. Of course that's not the entire continent but I don't see what you're getting at when you bring up Ferguson.
What is this "move the goal post" style of posting you're using? Stay in the context of what this thread is about.
Are you forgetting that we start with a million US dollars on top of our current net worth before we make the trip? So the millionaire thing doesn't mean anything in the context of this thread, nor does being a millionaire mean the same thing in certain countries in Africa vs. the US, given important factors like the cost of living and currency conversion.
Not to mention, what does how many millionaire stats have to do with how well a nation is doing as a people? If everyone becomes a millionaire, the market adjusts, prices shoot up, purchasing power shoots down.
... My post was comparing the 2 situations. No one said exploitation didn't exist, I said there is a war on black people in the US and we're not even the majority, so we are at a lost no matter which way we try to move. In comparison to Africa and certain countries in Africa, where we are by far the majority.
The Ferguson thing was to show the blatant racism and how they have no problem escalating any issue when it comes to us and only us. It supports my war on black people statement. It has nothing to do with violence in certain areas in Africa, because once again, you can choose which country, city, neighborhood you live in. No one said you have to live in a war driven village, going through civil war.
Everything in my post was a direct response to each point you made.I didn't "move any goal posts". I brought up millionaires to counter where you said "So yeah, I don't see how the U.S is any better for us than Africa. Africa has a long list of black presidents or people in power, plenty of opportunity business-wise, limitless potential, and black is the norm. "
Also this Africa that you dream of where everybody is united and there's one Black African race working for the greater good of all Black people isn't what the situation is. Each African nation is home to various ethnic groups and tribes that are in many cases working to better their own situation. There's discrimination and conflicts that happen within the Black race in Africa. There's examples of systematic oppression that Blacks impose on other Blacks. My point is that everything you're running from by leaving America, you can find examples of over there. So I'm saying if that's why you're leaving then it's not a good reason. Africa isn't hell on earth at all--but it has its share of challenges as well.
I've heard Ghana is a great place though so :shrug:
My main issue was with people saying that Blacks didn't help build this country or that we haven't built anything worthwhile here. Hence I point out the amount of Black millionaires, which per capita is way more than the amount of millionaires in Africa. You accused me of looking down on Blacks, while in the same post you deny the existence of a distinct African-American culture. It seems to me you're looking down on Blacks in America while bigging up those in Africa. I'm not looking down on anybody, just don't ? on what we've accomplished as a people in this nation. Our ancestors deserve better.
? already forgot about the Hutus and the Tutsis? Hundreds of young girls were snatched off the streets just recently.
So is that all of Africa, or just a section of Nigeria?
Going country by country isn't even necessary. What is relevant however is that this rosy, black paradise you people keep going on about doesn't exist and has never existed.
Y'all really making this conversation more negative than it needs to be. If you guys just understood the big picture that Africa has way more problems culturally, politically, and economically than most of these people are willing to admit.
Folks want to run away from racism but run into tribalism and all sorts of other culture clashes with little understanding of what's going on.
This post right here pretty much sums up the meat of the whole discussion. I don't personally believe that taking the million would necessarily be a bad decision but don't make it seem like you're escaping a perilous hell-hole situation here in America and going to the Land of Milk and Honey. Nah bro there's going to be PLENTY of challenges over there too, even with an extra million dollars. -
Nope, This is my home, I aint going nowhere! YMCMB/ABCDEFG
Well you’re now soliciting an entirely different argument. A debate about the socioeconomic progression of African-Americans is entirely different from an argument suggesting that the ancestors of African-Americans didn’t contribute at all to building America.The Iconoclast wrote: »
Exactly.NothingButTheTruth wrote: »
Of course you can trace the roots of hip-hop back to Africa. You can trace alot of our culture back to Africa...we did in fact come from Africa. No denying that.
America is home to 30,000 Black millionaires out of 42 million total black people. The entire continent of Africa has 1.6 billion people and only 100,000 millionaires (even including non-black Arabs, and whites that moved to Africa). If you really think Black people are in control of the majority of Africa I suggest you do some research. The same war that exists on Black people in U.S. exists in Africa, don't be delusional.
You don't think exploitation exists in Africa at the hands of Europeans and now Chinese on an extremely large scale? Do some research on who's getting rich off of the resources of Africa. Also, please don't compare what happened in Ferguson to some of the violence that happens in Africa to Africans. Alot of these new nations are still dealing with problems that were created during the colonialism era. Of course that's not the entire continent but I don't see what you're getting at when you bring up Ferguson.
What is this "move the goal post" style of posting you're using? Stay in the context of what this thread is about.
Are you forgetting that we start with a million US dollars on top of our current net worth before we make the trip? So the millionaire thing doesn't mean anything in the context of this thread, nor does being a millionaire mean the same thing in certain countries in Africa vs. the US, given important factors like the cost of living and currency conversion.
Not to mention, what does how many millionaire stats have to do with how well a nation is doing as a people? If everyone becomes a millionaire, the market adjusts, prices shoot up, purchasing power shoots down.
... My post was comparing the 2 situations. No one said exploitation didn't exist, I said there is a war on black people in the US and we're not even the majority, so we are at a lost no matter which way we try to move. In comparison to Africa and certain countries in Africa, where we are by far the majority.
The Ferguson thing was to show the blatant racism and how they have no problem escalating any issue when it comes to us and only us. It supports my war on black people statement. It has nothing to do with violence in certain areas in Africa, because once again, you can choose which country, city, neighborhood you live in. No one said you have to live in a war driven village, going through civil war.
Everything in my post was a direct response to each point you made.I didn't "move any goal posts". I brought up millionaires to counter where you said "So yeah, I don't see how the U.S is any better for us than Africa. Africa has a long list of black presidents or people in power, plenty of opportunity business-wise, limitless potential, and black is the norm. "
Also this Africa that you dream of where everybody is united and there's one Black African race working for the greater good of all Black people isn't what the situation is. Each African nation is home to various ethnic groups and tribes that are in many cases working to better their own situation. There's discrimination and conflicts that happen within the Black race in Africa. There's examples of systematic oppression that Blacks impose on other Blacks. My point is that everything you're running from by leaving America, you can find examples of over there. So I'm saying if that's why you're leaving then it's not a good reason. Africa isn't hell on earth at all--but it has its share of challenges as well.
I've heard Ghana is a great place though so :shrug:
My main issue was with people saying that Blacks didn't help build this country or that we haven't built anything worthwhile here. Hence I point out the amount of Black millionaires, which per capita is way more than the amount of millionaires in Africa. You accused me of looking down on Blacks, while in the same post you deny the existence of a distinct African-American culture. It seems to me you're looking down on Blacks in America while bigging up those in Africa. I'm not looking down on anybody, just don't ? on what we've accomplished as a people in this nation. Our ancestors deserve better.
If one holds such a perspective, you're striving to strip away the only fruits of our ancestors' oppression.
what exactly has been this fruit?? African-Americans are still at the bottom where is the path up? when all you have is money and no wealth after hundreds of years of work. you still remain a resource to make other people rich.
In essence, you’ve went from arguing that past blacks didn’t give a single contribution during the formation of America, to arguing that current blacks aren’t progressing as fast as you’d like them to.
Even if I were to agree with your cynical outlook (admittedly you've raise some reasonable issues) toward our progression.
Our current socioeconomic progression (or lack thereof) has no relevance to the quantifiable fact that our ancestors helped built this nation and impacted the fabric of American society. -
Hell yeah!, Take my ass to the Mother Land!ok here it is I been drinking but i know by the time im 35 ill be a millionaire if the good Lord spares me, lets combine wealth and collab to make more money here or in Africa im serious if anybody else is
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Hell yeah!, Take my ass to the Mother Land!im just tired of others having it all im taking my slice of the pie one way or the other
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the rosy black paradise is something we have to have the courage to create with the native africans
We need to create that here. There's no guarantee that this hypothetical influx of a foreign millionaire Black-American class into these African nations will not create tension with these native African and further complicate often delicate ethnic/tribal situations. Again, see how Liberia played out. You had Blacks from America coming into an area to build a nation where Black Africans were already living. It ended up becoming extremely tumultuous and civil war plagued the country for 30 + years. All of these people with money simply coming into Africa would create the situation of us being a dominant minority over there, just like African-Americans became in Liberia. That didn't work out for anybody.
that cannot be created here. because you don't control the state and even worse that state seems to be in violent opposition to us in many areas. liberia is a bad example because it was created by former slaves in this situation we would be going into established nations. there are already thousands of african americans over there already and african americans of today are not like the former slaves who created liberia. -
The Iconoclast wrote: »
Well you’re now soliciting an entirely different argument. A debate about the socioeconomic progression of African-Americans is entirely different from an argument suggesting that the ancestors of African-Americans didn’t contribute at all to building America.The Iconoclast wrote: »
Exactly.NothingButTheTruth wrote: »
Of course you can trace the roots of hip-hop back to Africa. You can trace alot of our culture back to Africa...we did in fact come from Africa. No denying that.
America is home to 30,000 Black millionaires out of 42 million total black people. The entire continent of Africa has 1.6 billion people and only 100,000 millionaires (even including non-black Arabs, and whites that moved to Africa). If you really think Black people are in control of the majority of Africa I suggest you do some research. The same war that exists on Black people in U.S. exists in Africa, don't be delusional.
You don't think exploitation exists in Africa at the hands of Europeans and now Chinese on an extremely large scale? Do some research on who's getting rich off of the resources of Africa. Also, please don't compare what happened in Ferguson to some of the violence that happens in Africa to Africans. Alot of these new nations are still dealing with problems that were created during the colonialism era. Of course that's not the entire continent but I don't see what you're getting at when you bring up Ferguson.
What is this "move the goal post" style of posting you're using? Stay in the context of what this thread is about.
Are you forgetting that we start with a million US dollars on top of our current net worth before we make the trip? So the millionaire thing doesn't mean anything in the context of this thread, nor does being a millionaire mean the same thing in certain countries in Africa vs. the US, given important factors like the cost of living and currency conversion.
Not to mention, what does how many millionaire stats have to do with how well a nation is doing as a people? If everyone becomes a millionaire, the market adjusts, prices shoot up, purchasing power shoots down.
... My post was comparing the 2 situations. No one said exploitation didn't exist, I said there is a war on black people in the US and we're not even the majority, so we are at a lost no matter which way we try to move. In comparison to Africa and certain countries in Africa, where we are by far the majority.
The Ferguson thing was to show the blatant racism and how they have no problem escalating any issue when it comes to us and only us. It supports my war on black people statement. It has nothing to do with violence in certain areas in Africa, because once again, you can choose which country, city, neighborhood you live in. No one said you have to live in a war driven village, going through civil war.
Everything in my post was a direct response to each point you made.I didn't "move any goal posts". I brought up millionaires to counter where you said "So yeah, I don't see how the U.S is any better for us than Africa. Africa has a long list of black presidents or people in power, plenty of opportunity business-wise, limitless potential, and black is the norm. "
Also this Africa that you dream of where everybody is united and there's one Black African race working for the greater good of all Black people isn't what the situation is. Each African nation is home to various ethnic groups and tribes that are in many cases working to better their own situation. There's discrimination and conflicts that happen within the Black race in Africa. There's examples of systematic oppression that Blacks impose on other Blacks. My point is that everything you're running from by leaving America, you can find examples of over there. So I'm saying if that's why you're leaving then it's not a good reason. Africa isn't hell on earth at all--but it has its share of challenges as well.
I've heard Ghana is a great place though so :shrug:
My main issue was with people saying that Blacks didn't help build this country or that we haven't built anything worthwhile here. Hence I point out the amount of Black millionaires, which per capita is way more than the amount of millionaires in Africa. You accused me of looking down on Blacks, while in the same post you deny the existence of a distinct African-American culture. It seems to me you're looking down on Blacks in America while bigging up those in Africa. I'm not looking down on anybody, just don't ? on what we've accomplished as a people in this nation. Our ancestors deserve better.
If one holds such a perspective, you're striving to strip away the only fruits of our ancestors' oppression.
what exactly has been this fruit?? African-Americans are still at the bottom where is the path up? when all you have is money and no wealth after hundreds of years of work. you still remain a resource to make other people rich.
In essence, you’ve went from arguing that past blacks didn’t give a single contribution during the formation of America, to arguing that current blacks aren’t progressing as fast as you’d like them to.
Even if I were to agree with your cynical outlook (admittedly you've raise some reasonable issues) toward our progression.
Our current socioeconomic progression (or lack thereof) has no relevance to the quantifiable fact that our ancestors helped built this nation and impacted the fabric of American society.
i would say this african americans impacted society but i would not go so far to say you built america and actually the formation of america was done by white people. they wrote the bill of rights and the other documents that formed the government. -
the rosy black paradise is something we have to have the courage to create with the native africans
Not gonna happen. For every 1 African you may help you will ? off 10...guaranteed. I say tat because with limited knowledge of the culture (and just plain general xenophobia which will occur), there's no idea how certain people will react to any sort of modernization.
On that subject You have no idea how European this concept of being a savior to Africans is. To assume they don't have the intellectual infrastructure necessary to handle their own affairs.
Africans don't need our help, they have everything they need they just have to take better care of their own resources. If their governments nationalized resources instead of letting outside "investors" (vultures) own them (or if the governments weren't so ? corrupt in the first place) progress would move quicker. Just like blacks in America have everything we need but there's some changes that need to be made as far as entrepreneurship and financial management in the community.
Trust me, there's more than enough Africans who know what these resources are worth but whose side are those Africans on? Like I said pages ago, most of them are in the pockets of outsiders and their allegiance isn't to Africa but to themselves and their benefactors. It's nothing for a collection of billionaires to buy off a chieftain to ensure their "interests" in a region.
It's ignorant as hell to think with a few people emigrating (even with $1 million each) that they can change the landscape of Africa. Dude the IMF/World Bank are basically writing the ? laws, they are making sure certain people are getting the lion's share of that wealth. -
Hell yeah!, Take my ass to the Mother Land!We aint trying to save Africa. Everyone who gets the 1.5 (no tax) should have to give up 500 racks off top. Thats 20 Trillion. What can be done with 20 trillion?
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the rosy black paradise is something we have to have the courage to create with the native africans
Not gonna happen. For every 1 African you may help you will ? off 10...guaranteed. I say tat because with limited knowledge of the culture (and just plain general xenophobia which will occur), there's no idea how certain people will react to any sort of modernization.
On that subject You have no idea how European this concept of being a savior to Africans is. To assume they don't have the intellectual infrastructure necessary to handle their own affairs.
Africans don't need our help, they have everything they need they just have to take better care of their own resources. If their governments nationalized resources instead of letting outside "investors" (vultures) own them (or if the governments weren't so ? corrupt in the first place) progress would move quicker. Just like blacks in America have everything we need but there's some changes that need to be made as far as entrepreneurship and financial management in the community.
Trust me, there's more than enough Africans who know what these resources are worth but whose side are those Africans on? Like I said pages ago, most of them are in the pockets of outsiders and their allegiance isn't to Africa but to themselves and their benefactors. It's nothing for a collection of billionaires to buy off a chieftain to ensure their "interests" in a region.
It's ignorant as hell to think with a few people emigrating (even with $1 million each) that they can change the landscape of Africa. Dude the IMF/World Bank are basically writing the ? laws, they are making sure certain people are getting the lion's share of that wealth.
we don't need all of them to love us, my family is married into african families and trust me you have just characterized them wrongly. i said it before i will say it again moving to africa is not for the stupid
you ? can say what you want but i have personal experience, i know what can happen when blacks move to africa it's not us saving them it's both of us helping each other. -
It honestly bafflrs my mind that you guys love the us this much.
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JerryfromJerz wrote: »NothingButTheTruth wrote: »
Of course you can trace the roots of hip-hop back to Africa. You can trace alot of our culture back to Africa...we did in fact come from Africa. No denying that.
America is home to 30,000 Black millionaires out of 42 million total black people. The entire continent of Africa has 1.6 billion people and only 100,000 millionaires (even including non-black Arabs, and whites that moved to Africa). If you really think Black people are in control of the majority of Africa I suggest you do some research. The same war that exists on Black people in U.S. exists in Africa, don't be delusional.
You don't think exploitation exists in Africa at the hands of Europeans and now Chinese on an extremely large scale? Do some research on who's getting rich off of the resources of Africa. Also, please don't compare what happened in Ferguson to some of the violence that happens in Africa to Africans. Alot of these new nations are still dealing with problems that were created during the colonialism era. Of course that's not the entire continent but I don't see what you're getting at when you bring up Ferguson.
What is this "move the goal post" style of posting you're using? Stay in the context of what this thread is about.
Are you forgetting that we start with a million US dollars on top of our current net worth before we make the trip? So the millionaire thing doesn't mean anything in the context of this thread, nor does being a millionaire mean the same thing in certain countries in Africa vs. the US, given important factors like the cost of living and currency conversion.
Not to mention, what does how many millionaire stats have to do with how well a nation is doing as a people? If everyone becomes a millionaire, the market adjusts, prices shoot up, purchasing power shoots down.
... My post was comparing the 2 situations. No one said exploitation didn't exist, I said there is a war on black people in the US and we're not even the majority, so we are at a lost no matter which way we try to move. In comparison to Africa and certain countries in Africa, where we are by far the majority.
The Ferguson thing was to show the blatant racism and how they have no problem escalating any issue when it comes to us and only us. It supports my war on black people statement. It has nothing to do with violence in certain areas in Africa, because once again, you can choose which country, city, neighborhood you live in. No one said you have to live in a war driven village, going through civil war.
Everything in my post was a direct response to each point you made.I didn't "move any goal posts". I brought up millionaires to counter where you said "So yeah, I don't see how the U.S is any better for us than Africa. Africa has a long list of black presidents or people in power, plenty of opportunity business-wise, limitless potential, and black is the norm. "
Also this Africa that you dream of where everybody is united and there's one Black African race working for the greater good of all Black people isn't what the situation is. Each African nation is home to various ethnic groups and tribes that are in many cases working to better their own situation. There's discrimination and conflicts that happen within the Black race in Africa. There's examples of systematic oppression that Blacks impose on other Blacks. My point is that everything you're running from by leaving America, you can find examples of over there. So I'm saying if that's why you're leaving then it's not a good reason. Africa isn't hell on earth at all--but it has its share of challenges as well.
I've heard Ghana is a great place though so :shrug:
My main issue was with people saying that Blacks didn't help build this country or that we haven't built anything worthwhile here. Hence I point out the amount of Black millionaires, which per capita is way more than the amount of millionaires in Africa. You accused me of looking down on Blacks, while in the same post you deny the existence of a distinct African-American culture. It seems to me you're looking down on Blacks in America while bigging up those in Africa. I'm not looking down on anybody, just don't ? on what we've accomplished as a people in this nation. Our ancestors deserve better.
Again what are tangible results of that tho?
An increased black middle class
A higher amount of black students in college
A higher life expectancy
A higher standard of living on average compared to EVERY country in Africa
Must I go on? We really just gonna ? on Blacks in America here like we just haven't progressed at all.
Tangible was the key word -
JerryfromJerz wrote: »It honestly bafflrs my mind that you guys love the us this much.
I hope you're not talking about me because I don't love America that much. I really love Black America though. It baffles me how easily you all can disregard it. But to each his own.JerryfromJerz wrote: »Tangible was the key word
Oh, I was going off the meriam-webster definition of tangible. What does tangible mean to you? -
What you said was vague and un quantifiable
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Lol no it wasn't. A larger Black middle class is specific and quantifiable. A longer life expectancy is specific and quantifiable. More Blacks in College is specific and quantifiable. I don't know what you're looking for
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im looking for data
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Nope, This is my home, I aint going nowhere! YMCMB/ABCDEFGThe Iconoclast wrote: »
Well you’re now soliciting an entirely different argument. A debate about the socioeconomic progression of African-Americans is entirely different from an argument suggesting that the ancestors of African-Americans didn’t contribute at all to building America.The Iconoclast wrote: »
Exactly.NothingButTheTruth wrote: »
Of course you can trace the roots of hip-hop back to Africa. You can trace alot of our culture back to Africa...we did in fact come from Africa. No denying that.
America is home to 30,000 Black millionaires out of 42 million total black people. The entire continent of Africa has 1.6 billion people and only 100,000 millionaires (even including non-black Arabs, and whites that moved to Africa). If you really think Black people are in control of the majority of Africa I suggest you do some research. The same war that exists on Black people in U.S. exists in Africa, don't be delusional.
You don't think exploitation exists in Africa at the hands of Europeans and now Chinese on an extremely large scale? Do some research on who's getting rich off of the resources of Africa. Also, please don't compare what happened in Ferguson to some of the violence that happens in Africa to Africans. Alot of these new nations are still dealing with problems that were created during the colonialism era. Of course that's not the entire continent but I don't see what you're getting at when you bring up Ferguson.
What is this "move the goal post" style of posting you're using? Stay in the context of what this thread is about.
Are you forgetting that we start with a million US dollars on top of our current net worth before we make the trip? So the millionaire thing doesn't mean anything in the context of this thread, nor does being a millionaire mean the same thing in certain countries in Africa vs. the US, given important factors like the cost of living and currency conversion.
Not to mention, what does how many millionaire stats have to do with how well a nation is doing as a people? If everyone becomes a millionaire, the market adjusts, prices shoot up, purchasing power shoots down.
... My post was comparing the 2 situations. No one said exploitation didn't exist, I said there is a war on black people in the US and we're not even the majority, so we are at a lost no matter which way we try to move. In comparison to Africa and certain countries in Africa, where we are by far the majority.
The Ferguson thing was to show the blatant racism and how they have no problem escalating any issue when it comes to us and only us. It supports my war on black people statement. It has nothing to do with violence in certain areas in Africa, because once again, you can choose which country, city, neighborhood you live in. No one said you have to live in a war driven village, going through civil war.
Everything in my post was a direct response to each point you made.I didn't "move any goal posts". I brought up millionaires to counter where you said "So yeah, I don't see how the U.S is any better for us than Africa. Africa has a long list of black presidents or people in power, plenty of opportunity business-wise, limitless potential, and black is the norm. "
Also this Africa that you dream of where everybody is united and there's one Black African race working for the greater good of all Black people isn't what the situation is. Each African nation is home to various ethnic groups and tribes that are in many cases working to better their own situation. There's discrimination and conflicts that happen within the Black race in Africa. There's examples of systematic oppression that Blacks impose on other Blacks. My point is that everything you're running from by leaving America, you can find examples of over there. So I'm saying if that's why you're leaving then it's not a good reason. Africa isn't hell on earth at all--but it has its share of challenges as well.
I've heard Ghana is a great place though so :shrug:
My main issue was with people saying that Blacks didn't help build this country or that we haven't built anything worthwhile here. Hence I point out the amount of Black millionaires, which per capita is way more than the amount of millionaires in Africa. You accused me of looking down on Blacks, while in the same post you deny the existence of a distinct African-American culture. It seems to me you're looking down on Blacks in America while bigging up those in Africa. I'm not looking down on anybody, just don't ? on what we've accomplished as a people in this nation. Our ancestors deserve better.
If one holds such a perspective, you're striving to strip away the only fruits of our ancestors' oppression.
what exactly has been this fruit?? African-Americans are still at the bottom where is the path up? when all you have is money and no wealth after hundreds of years of work. you still remain a resource to make other people rich.
In essence, you’ve went from arguing that past blacks didn’t give a single contribution during the formation of America, to arguing that current blacks aren’t progressing as fast as you’d like them to.
Even if I were to agree with your cynical outlook (admittedly you've raise some reasonable issues) toward our progression.
Our current socioeconomic progression (or lack thereof) has no relevance to the quantifiable fact that our ancestors helped built this nation and impacted the fabric of American society.
i would say this african americans impacted society but i would not go so far to say you built america and actually the formation of america was done by white people. they wrote the bill of rights and the other documents that formed the government.
We both know that the US wasn't created in a vacuum. It didn't just magically ? out of thin air after a piece of paper was signed with a quill pen dipped in ink during the late 1700s.
Before the implementation of the US constitution, the actual development of the thirteen colonies was critically influenced by African slaves and after the implementation of the US constitution they proceeded to play a leading role in precipitating the industrialization of America - which ushered us into the modern era of being a technologically advanced global power.
It's not about our love for the US.JerryfromJerz wrote: »It honestly bafflrs my mind that you guys love the us this much.
Jono and Stiff conveyed it perfectly in their posts. It's simply intellectually dishonest to simplify this topic's hypothetical by glossing over the intricate details and prematurely attaching oneself to the "grass is always greener on the other side" outlook.
