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BLACK FOLKS: IF THE G'MENT OFFERED YOU 1MILL TO LEAVE AMERICA TO GO TO AFRICA AND NEVER COME BACK

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Replies

  • zombiezombie Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stiff wrote: »
    Stiff wrote: »
    rip.dilla wrote: »
    People always relocate to other countries and become citizens of their new country every day b.. .




    The US is a prime example of mass migration from different nationalities around the world. (it was originally a land stripped of its original inhabitants)



    Why should learning a new language and culture be a problem?

    None at all. If people wish to learn a new language and culture of our African brothers that's not a bad thing at all. My main issue is with this notion that the culture of Black Ameicans is somehow inferior to the cultures of the people of native-born Africans. All of our cultures and histories should be respected equally.

    We got people in here arguing that Blacks in America haven't progressed, that Blacks in America didn't contribute to the prosperity of America and that Blacks in America have no future. Somebody even questioned the very existence of a Black American culture. That's what I'm taking exception to. That's White supremacist rhetoric no matter where it comes from and it's just not true. Acting as if Blacks haven't built ANYTHING in America is crazy to me.

    @Stiff I agree with what you said but personally what do you think when you see the census and the future of us in America. People often talk of the fate of Latin American blacks soon coming for us.

    I don't think more Brown people in the country is automatically bad for Black people, because all that does is weaken the power of white supremacy. I just don't see Brown people coming in and realistically replacing Whites as oppressors. I'd have to see the situation of specific countries in Latin America as examples to speak directly to that. Most hispanics in America have the same political and economic interests as most Blacks and tend to lean liberal like Blacks(except Cubans if I'm not mistaken).

    Also if we look at how much power Jewish people have in this country you can see how the number of people don't necessarily have to be indicative to the amount of power a group has. Time will tell ultimately but I don't think Blacks should be as alarmed as Whites about the influx of of Brown people because it's not OUR power structure that's being threatened.

    Do you travel?? have you been to south and especially central america?? There are black/brown white supremacist latinos share interest with us for now that can and will change especially with certain hispanic nationalities they grow up looking down on us at home they won't start loving us here. jews have unity and economic self reliance the later is a thing black america seems to have traded for integration.

    in capitalism you don't have a friend it's your group vs the others and any alliance is temporary.
    Masterfultechrip.dillaStillFaggyAFblacktux
  • StiffStiff Legion of Trill BG Posts: 7,723 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zombie wrote: »

    question: whats your opinion on Israel,their right of return law, and those that take advantage of that?
    That question really isn't relevant lol...

    Well without going too much in-depth about it (since it’s off topic) I’ll just admit I have a fairly cynical view of Israel overall and in regards to their law of return, its agenda-driven. Although to be fair if you delve deep enough into most diaspora politics, you’ll eventually discover some internal self-serving forces at play.

    zombie wrote: »

    You cannot give slaves the credit for the industrialization of america, true it was the end of slavery that really created the impetus for the industrialization of the south but really it was coming anyway and slaves had no choice in the matter as is often the case blacks were non-willing factors in the direction america takes.

    and america became a global power after ww2 and blacks were not allowed to play a major role in it.

    the 13 colonies were a creation of england not african slaves


    Ah, I see once again this is circling back to the incorrect semantic argument you put forth against stiff regarding what it means to “contribute”. There aren't any parts of the definitions that denote the 'willingness' of a contributor.
    gQh1TrW.jpg
    By definition, one can contribute to something even if it’s against their will or not done on purpose. If a starved, homeless man holds you at gun point, robs you and uses your money to buy food & water, regardless of whether you wanted to or not, you contributed to his survival.


    Moreover, I didn't give slaves sole credit for the industrialization of America, but merely stated they were a salient factor – which is a historically documented, indisputable fact. Everyone knows a multitude of factors lead to the industrialization of America. The slaves had a direct and indirect influence on the industrialization, urbanization and transportation infrastructure of the US.

    You’re incorrect about when the US became a global power. The US became a global power after WW1. By 1920, America’s economic proficiency was among the world’s best.

    I agree with you about the birth of the colonies. However, that self-evident factoid doesn't disapprove or even address my quantifiable assertion that the actually development of the colonies (to the country they eventually transformed into) were critically influenced by African slaves, and it’s documented that roughly 90% of Colonial American population livelihood revolved around agriculture. We've obviously reached a point in this discussion where trivializing our ancestor’s cultivation of cash crops, is a pointless exercise on your part - empirical evidence is simply not in your favor.

    I ANSWERED THIS ALREADY maybe you missed it but your given meaning starts off with by saying a contribution is "A GIFT"

    gift/gift/
    noun
    a thing given willingly to someone without payment; a present.
    a natural ability or talent.
    verb
    give (something) as a gift, especially formally or as a donation or bequest.


    so if a contribution is a gift it has to be willingly given and that's not a matter of semantics, it's what the word actually means

    non willling actors and things with no choice cannot contribute you cannot extort me and claim i contributed to you. the mafia does not get contributions.

    the 13 colonies used slave labor key word being used once again you might as well say that it was the farm animals and crops that deserve the props for their survival and development into america why not give the same respect to the irish that you give to the african slaves in the 13 colonies.

    you believe that the slave that was used like a tractor deserves the props for what he was forced to do, i do not it is irelevlent how much money they made for america or how much capital they created. because they had no choice.

    ok alright you can say america became a global power after ww1 but that depends on what you consider a global power an argument can be made that america became one far before that. one thing is sure it was the winning of ww2 that really made the usa what it if today in terms of it's global influence.

    Lol so you're just going to highlight the first entry of the definition, which supports your argument but completely ignore the second entry which shuts it down

    con·trib·ute
    verb \kən-ˈtri-byət, -(ˌ)byüt also & especially before -ed or -ing -ˈtri-bət; chiefly British also ˈkän-trə-ˌbyüt\

    : to give (something, such as money, goods, or time) to help a person, group, cause, or organization

    : to help to cause something to happen

    : to write (something, such as a story, poem, or essay) for a magazine

    From the nation's founding up until the end of the Civil War, the entire South was a slave-based economy.
    Plantation-grown cotton was the foundation of the antebellum southern economy.

    But the American financial and shipping industries were also dependent on slave-produced cotton. So was the British textile industry

    Source

    Those slaves were pretty much entirely African descent. That means the South DEPENDED on the labor of those Africans to maintain and grow its economy, whether they were whistling as they worked or not is completely irrelevant.

    And stop comparing the recognition owed to inanimate objects to that of human beings. Just because that's the belief that white slaveowners had at the time doesn't mean it's a respectable belief to hold as a Black Man in 2014.

    @Zombie

    The IconoclastMasterfultechJabu_Rulejono
  • zombiezombie Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stiff wrote: »
    People really want to talk "Black-Excellence" but when they get offered money to leave the country, abandon the culture that has derived from their Diasporic ancestors and just go blend in with any African people that they have no cultural ties to after 400 + years of separation, they say "Bet, let's go"

    All while saying "American Blacks aren't doing shit anyway". If you take the money and leave cool. But don't try to claim it's on some Black empowerment.

    Question: When you go back to Africa what tribe will you be apart of? What will be your ethnicity? You've come up with a western train-of-thought and are trying to take that and project it on to African natives, who mostly don't have that train-of-thought.

    Throw some money at a bunch of Yorubas from Nigeria and ask them to pack up and leave their lands and never come back and go all the way down to Namibia. You think they're going to say "it's all good they're all Black like us, no problem let's go".

    African-American is just as much of an ethnicity as Yoruba. We are all one race. We should all be united. We should respect the cultures and accomplishments of EVERY ethnicity that falls under the umbrella of the Black race. So don't shit on one ethnicity while trying to say it's in the name of Black Empowerment. It doesn't work like that.

    Leaving the nation does not mean leaving the culture, you are not tied to america you don't have to be a slave to america. I left jamaica, i am still a jamaican. if you leave america you will still be african american, you don't have to join any tribe just be yourself. namibia is less developed than nigeria so an intelligent yoruba won't go, but give him one million and he just might nigerians are hustlers like that.

    you never been to africa you don't know these people at all, you have to be respectful but be yourself if you go over there trying to be more african than them they are going to laugh at you. the difference between african american and most africans in all the nations i've been to don't amount to much really. especially amongst the younger generation they have actually begin to slowly think like us in there own way that is what i have observed
  • zombiezombie Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2014
    Stiff wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »

    question: whats your opinion on Israel,their right of return law, and those that take advantage of that?
    That question really isn't relevant lol...

    Well without going too much in-depth about it (since it’s off topic) I’ll just admit I have a fairly cynical view of Israel overall and in regards to their law of return, its agenda-driven. Although to be fair if you delve deep enough into most diaspora politics, you’ll eventually discover some internal self-serving forces at play.

    zombie wrote: »

    You cannot give slaves the credit for the industrialization of america, true it was the end of slavery that really created the impetus for the industrialization of the south but really it was coming anyway and slaves had no choice in the matter as is often the case blacks were non-willing factors in the direction america takes.

    and america became a global power after ww2 and blacks were not allowed to play a major role in it.

    the 13 colonies were a creation of england not african slaves


    Ah, I see once again this is circling back to the incorrect semantic argument you put forth against stiff regarding what it means to “contribute”. There aren't any parts of the definitions that denote the 'willingness' of a contributor.
    gQh1TrW.jpg
    By definition, one can contribute to something even if it’s against their will or not done on purpose. If a starved, homeless man holds you at gun point, robs you and uses your money to buy food & water, regardless of whether you wanted to or not, you contributed to his survival.


    Moreover, I didn't give slaves sole credit for the industrialization of America, but merely stated they were a salient factor – which is a historically documented, indisputable fact. Everyone knows a multitude of factors lead to the industrialization of America. The slaves had a direct and indirect influence on the industrialization, urbanization and transportation infrastructure of the US.

    You’re incorrect about when the US became a global power. The US became a global power after WW1. By 1920, America’s economic proficiency was among the world’s best.

    I agree with you about the birth of the colonies. However, that self-evident factoid doesn't disapprove or even address my quantifiable assertion that the actually development of the colonies (to the country they eventually transformed into) were critically influenced by African slaves, and it’s documented that roughly 90% of Colonial American population livelihood revolved around agriculture. We've obviously reached a point in this discussion where trivializing our ancestor’s cultivation of cash crops, is a pointless exercise on your part - empirical evidence is simply not in your favor.

    I ANSWERED THIS ALREADY maybe you missed it but your given meaning starts off with by saying a contribution is "A GIFT"

    gift/gift/
    noun
    a thing given willingly to someone without payment; a present.
    a natural ability or talent.
    verb
    give (something) as a gift, especially formally or as a donation or bequest.


    so if a contribution is a gift it has to be willingly given and that's not a matter of semantics, it's what the word actually means

    non willling actors and things with no choice cannot contribute you cannot extort me and claim i contributed to you. the mafia does not get contributions.

    the 13 colonies used slave labor key word being used once again you might as well say that it was the farm animals and crops that deserve the props for their survival and development into america why not give the same respect to the irish that you give to the african slaves in the 13 colonies.

    you believe that the slave that was used like a tractor deserves the props for what he was forced to do, i do not it is irelevlent how much money they made for america or how much capital they created. because they had no choice.

    ok alright you can say america became a global power after ww1 but that depends on what you consider a global power an argument can be made that america became one far before that. one thing is sure it was the winning of ww2 that really made the usa what it if today in terms of it's global influence.

    Lol so you're just going to highlight the first entry of the definition, which supports your argument but completely ignore the second entry which shuts it down

    con·trib·ute
    verb \kən-ˈtri-byət, -(ˌ)byüt also & especially before -ed or -ing -ˈtri-bət; chiefly British also ˈkän-trə-ˌbyüt\

    : to give (something, such as money, goods, or time) to help a person, group, cause, or organization

    : to help to cause something to happen

    : to write (something, such as a story, poem, or essay) for a magazine

    From the nation's founding up until the end of the Civil War, the entire South was a slave-based economy.
    Plantation-grown cotton was the foundation of the antebellum southern economy.

    But the American financial and shipping industries were also dependent on slave-produced cotton. So was the British textile industry

    Source

    Those slaves were pretty much entirely African descent. That means the South DEPENDED on the labor of those Africans to maintain and grow its economy, whether they were whistling as they worked or not is completely irrelevant.

    And stop comparing the recognition owed to inanimate objects to that of human beings. Just because that's the belief that white slaveowners had at the time doesn't mean it's a respectable belief to hold as a Black Man in 2014.

    @Zombie

    Now you want to argue words?? ok. but all these words connote willful action not being forced

    help/help/
    verb
    make it easier for (someone) to do something by offering one's services or resources.
    serve someone with (food or drink).

    you cannot categorize someone doing something for you as "help" if you are forcing them to to do it and the slaves having no self determination might as well have been inanimate objects, right or wrong has nothing to do with the equation my analysis is an emotionless one . the year we are in is unimportant , the mindsets of white people now or then is unimportant. what actually happened is important

    and what happened is they (whites) used blacks to build the economy much the same way farmers use cows except we were much more profitable cows.
    blacktux
  • MasterfultechMasterfultech Posts: 662 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stiff wrote: »
    Stiff wrote: »
    rip.dilla wrote: »
    People always relocate to other countries and become citizens of their new country every day b.. .




    The US is a prime example of mass migration from different nationalities around the world. (it was originally a land stripped of its original inhabitants)



    Why should learning a new language and culture be a problem?

    None at all. If people wish to learn a new language and culture of our African brothers that's not a bad thing at all. My main issue is with this notion that the culture of Black Ameicans is somehow inferior to the cultures of the people of native-born Africans. All of our cultures and histories should be respected equally.

    We got people in here arguing that Blacks in America haven't progressed, that Blacks in America didn't contribute to the prosperity of America and that Blacks in America have no future. Somebody even questioned the very existence of a Black American culture. That's what I'm taking exception to. That's White supremacist rhetoric no matter where it comes from and it's just not true. Acting as if Blacks haven't built ANYTHING in America is crazy to me.

    @Stiff I agree with what you said but personally what do you think when you see the census and the future of us in America. People often talk of the fate of Latin American blacks soon coming for us.

    I don't think more Brown people in the country is automatically bad for Black people, because all that does is weaken the power of white supremacy. I just don't see Brown people coming in and realistically replacing Whites as oppressors. I'd have to see the situation of specific countries in Latin America as examples to speak directly to that. Most hispanics in America have the same political and economic interests as most Blacks and tend to lean liberal like Blacks(except Cubans if I'm not mistaken).

    Also if we look at how much power Jewish people have in this country you can see how the number of people don't necessarily have to be indicative to the amount of power a group has. Time will tell ultimately but I don't think Blacks should be as alarmed as Whites about the influx of of Brown people because it's not OUR power structure that's being threatened.

    Actually as more Mestizo come in certain jobs are being deferred to them rather than blacks. (There was actually a thread about it not to long ago ( http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/518513/amnesty-for-illegals-to-obliterate-economic-opportunities-for-african-americans#latest ). Also I like to add that mestizo aren't the only ones crossing over as Hispanic/Latino whites are coming too and this all adds to the white supremacist power structure because their own white supremacist power structure. And I reference Latin American blacks because of "the casta" if you have any idea about it and the new socio-economic divides it can bring for blacks.
    Actions have reactions, don't be quick to judge
    You may not know the hardships people don't speak of
    It's best to step back, and observe with couth
    For we all must meet our moment of truth
    -Guru
    The Iconoclast
  • StiffStiff Legion of Trill BG Posts: 7,723 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zombie wrote: »
    Stiff wrote: »
    People really want to talk "Black-Excellence" but when they get offered money to leave the country, abandon the culture that has derived from their Diasporic ancestors and just go blend in with any African people that they have no cultural ties to after 400 + years of separation, they say "Bet, let's go"

    All while saying "American Blacks aren't doing shit anyway". If you take the money and leave cool. But don't try to claim it's on some Black empowerment.

    Question: When you go back to Africa what tribe will you be apart of? What will be your ethnicity? You've come up with a western train-of-thought and are trying to take that and project it on to African natives, who mostly don't have that train-of-thought.

    Throw some money at a bunch of Yorubas from Nigeria and ask them to pack up and leave their lands and never come back and go all the way down to Namibia. You think they're going to say "it's all good they're all Black like us, no problem let's go".

    African-American is just as much of an ethnicity as Yoruba. We are all one race. We should all be united. We should respect the cultures and accomplishments of EVERY ethnicity that falls under the umbrella of the Black race. So don't shit on one ethnicity while trying to say it's in the name of Black Empowerment. It doesn't work like that.

    Leaving the nation does not mean leaving the culture, you are not tied to america you don't have to be a slave to america. I left jamaica, i am still a jamaican. if you leave america you will still be african american, you don't have to join any tribe just be yourself. namibia is less developed than nigeria so an intelligent yoruba won't go, but give him one million and he just might nigerians are hustlers like that.

    you never been to africa you don't know these people at all, you have to be respectful but be yourself if you go over there trying to be more african than them they are going to laugh at you. the difference between african american and most africans in all the nations i've been to don't amount to much really. especially amongst the younger generation they have actually begin to slowly think like us in there own way that is what i have observed

    And every single nation in Africa is less developed than The United States and is less developed than the people of Black America if it were its own country. So by your own words and logic an intelligent Black American wouldn't go. Checkmate I rest my case

    chappelle-mic-drop-o.gif
    MasterfultechThe Iconoclastjonoblacktux
  • zombiezombie Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stiff wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    Stiff wrote: »
    People really want to talk "Black-Excellence" but when they get offered money to leave the country, abandon the culture that has derived from their Diasporic ancestors and just go blend in with any African people that they have no cultural ties to after 400 + years of separation, they say "Bet, let's go"

    All while saying "American Blacks aren't doing shit anyway". If you take the money and leave cool. But don't try to claim it's on some Black empowerment.

    Question: When you go back to Africa what tribe will you be apart of? What will be your ethnicity? You've come up with a western train-of-thought and are trying to take that and project it on to African natives, who mostly don't have that train-of-thought.

    Throw some money at a bunch of Yorubas from Nigeria and ask them to pack up and leave their lands and never come back and go all the way down to Namibia. You think they're going to say "it's all good they're all Black like us, no problem let's go".

    African-American is just as much of an ethnicity as Yoruba. We are all one race. We should all be united. We should respect the cultures and accomplishments of EVERY ethnicity that falls under the umbrella of the Black race. So don't shit on one ethnicity while trying to say it's in the name of Black Empowerment. It doesn't work like that.

    Leaving the nation does not mean leaving the culture, you are not tied to america you don't have to be a slave to america. I left jamaica, i am still a jamaican. if you leave america you will still be african american, you don't have to join any tribe just be yourself. namibia is less developed than nigeria so an intelligent yoruba won't go, but give him one million and he just might nigerians are hustlers like that.

    you never been to africa you don't know these people at all, you have to be respectful but be yourself if you go over there trying to be more african than them they are going to laugh at you. the difference between african american and most africans in all the nations i've been to don't amount to much really. especially amongst the younger generation they have actually begin to slowly think like us in there own way that is what i have observed

    And every single nation in Africa is less developed than The United States and is less developed than the people of Black America if it were its own country. So by your own words and logic an intelligent Black American wouldn't go. Checkmate I rest my case

    chappelle-mic-drop-o.gif

    the difference is there is no nation called black america there is just america the only thing you have proven in this thread is that black americans are still slave minded you love a nation that shits on you and will continue to do so.

    in 50 years your children will be 3rd class citizens
    rip.dilla
  • zombiezombie Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2014
    african americans are rich but you are not more developed than africans because your riches come from other people you don't own shit and the money you make working for other races you quickly give right back to them. but i guess if that's your idea of development you are right
  • ShuffingtonShuffington Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2014
    Nope, This is my home, I aint going nowhere! YMCMB/ABCDEFG
    Y'all Gonna argue this one till the death i see.

    Personally would be scared for blacks world wide if there was a government sponsored program to give
    27-39 million Blacks in America 1 million dollars each ! To move ONLY to an African country. ONLY. Do you know how much money that is!?

    It would probably be some covert slave/debt to sell to China since they own most of it, and they're so deep in Africa
    as far as investment goes.

    This shit wouldn't be pretty… cause nothing is that simple.
    I guess for a thread premise thats been done a few times… its fun to discuss.

    Carry on
  • zombiezombie Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Y'all Gonna argue this one till the death i see.

    Personally would be scared for blacks world wide if there was a government sponsored program to give
    27-39 million Blacks in America 1 million dollars each ! To move ONLY to an African country. ONLY. Do you know how much money that is!?

    It would probably be some covert slave/debt to sell to China since they own most of it, and their so deep in Africa
    as far as investment goes.

    This shit wouldn't be pretty… cause nothing is that simple.
    I guess for a thread premise thats been done a few times… its fun to discuss.

    Carry on

    well, the details of the thread premise is fucking stupid look who created it. but the idea of rich black people going to africa is a golden one
  • StillFaggyAFStillFaggyAF Queer LGBT CommunityPosts: 40,358 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stiff wrote: »
    Stiff wrote: »
    rip.dilla wrote: »
    People always relocate to other countries and become citizens of their new country every day b.. .




    The US is a prime example of mass migration from different nationalities around the world. (it was originally a land stripped of its original inhabitants)



    Why should learning a new language and culture be a problem?

    None at all. If people wish to learn a new language and culture of our African brothers that's not a bad thing at all. My main issue is with this notion that the culture of Black Ameicans is somehow inferior to the cultures of the people of native-born Africans. All of our cultures and histories should be respected equally.

    We got people in here arguing that Blacks in America haven't progressed, that Blacks in America didn't contribute to the prosperity of America and that Blacks in America have no future. Somebody even questioned the very existence of a Black American culture. That's what I'm taking exception to. That's White supremacist rhetoric no matter where it comes from and it's just not true. Acting as if Blacks haven't built ANYTHING in America is crazy to me.

    @Stiff I agree with what you said but personally what do you think when you see the census and the future of us in America. People often talk of the fate of Latin American blacks soon coming for us.

    I don't think more Brown people in the country is automatically bad for Black people, because all that does is weaken the power of white supremacy. I just don't see Brown people coming in and realistically replacing Whites as oppressors. I'd have to see the situation of specific countries in Latin America as examples to speak directly to that. Most hispanics in America have the same political and economic interests as most Blacks and tend to lean liberal like Blacks(except Cubans if I'm not mistaken).

    Also if we look at how much power Jewish people have in this country you can see how the number of people don't necessarily have to be indicative to the amount of power a group has. Time will tell ultimately but I don't think Blacks should be as alarmed as Whites about the influx of of Brown people because it's not OUR power structure that's being threatened.

    I think you should travel/study Latin America and their black history as a clue yo what may happen in the Us. Latinos can he of everyrace BUT in recent census es they have been increasingly identifying as white (simultaneously, in their home countries more and more people are acknowledging their African ancestry) They have a larger population than blacks and are increasing in wealth and power. And while certain latino ethnicities are / can be allied with blacks, many are not and they seek white American acceptance. Personally, I think ligh skin hispanics will be come socially white like italians and irish did in the 20th century and continue white supremacy in the us.

    LvbxPzB.gif

    tumblr_nhmcjbdFri1snb2l4o5_r1_500.gif
    full?d=1430459989


    Masterfultech
  • StiffStiff Legion of Trill BG Posts: 7,723 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2014
    zombie wrote: »
    african americans are rich but you are not more developed than africans because your riches come from other people you don't own shit and the money you make working for other races you quickly give right back to them. but i guess if that's your idea of development you are right

    This statement makes no sense. Our money isn't good because it comes from other people? Unless you own a money printer all of your money is going to come from other people, in exchange for a good or a service. That's how business works. And you also keep ignoring the fact that United States has more Black Millionaires per capita than the entire continent of Africa. So if Black Americans don't own shit, then don't leave out the fact that Black Africans don't own shit either.

    zombie wrote: »
    in capitalism you don't have a friend it's your group vs the others and any alliance is temporary.

    And if this cynical view is the one you carry, cool. But where'd you get the idea that the entire Black race is a monolithic group moving towards the same goals in unison? If that were the case it would be great for us all, but it's not the real situation. Putting a million in the pockets of Black Americans and shipping them over there wouldn't move us toward that.
  • StiffStiff Legion of Trill BG Posts: 7,723 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stiff wrote: »
    Stiff wrote: »
    rip.dilla wrote: »
    People always relocate to other countries and become citizens of their new country every day b.. .




    The US is a prime example of mass migration from different nationalities around the world. (it was originally a land stripped of its original inhabitants)



    Why should learning a new language and culture be a problem?

    None at all. If people wish to learn a new language and culture of our African brothers that's not a bad thing at all. My main issue is with this notion that the culture of Black Ameicans is somehow inferior to the cultures of the people of native-born Africans. All of our cultures and histories should be respected equally.

    We got people in here arguing that Blacks in America haven't progressed, that Blacks in America didn't contribute to the prosperity of America and that Blacks in America have no future. Somebody even questioned the very existence of a Black American culture. That's what I'm taking exception to. That's White supremacist rhetoric no matter where it comes from and it's just not true. Acting as if Blacks haven't built ANYTHING in America is crazy to me.

    @Stiff I agree with what you said but personally what do you think when you see the census and the future of us in America. People often talk of the fate of Latin American blacks soon coming for us.

    I don't think more Brown people in the country is automatically bad for Black people, because all that does is weaken the power of white supremacy. I just don't see Brown people coming in and realistically replacing Whites as oppressors. I'd have to see the situation of specific countries in Latin America as examples to speak directly to that. Most hispanics in America have the same political and economic interests as most Blacks and tend to lean liberal like Blacks(except Cubans if I'm not mistaken).

    Also if we look at how much power Jewish people have in this country you can see how the number of people don't necessarily have to be indicative to the amount of power a group has. Time will tell ultimately but I don't think Blacks should be as alarmed as Whites about the influx of of Brown people because it's not OUR power structure that's being threatened.

    Actually as more Mestizo come in certain jobs are being deferred to them rather than blacks. (There was actually a thread about it not to long ago ( http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/518513/amnesty-for-illegals-to-obliterate-economic-opportunities-for-african-americans#latest ). Also I like to add that mestizo aren't the only ones crossing over as Hispanic/Latino whites are coming too and this all adds to the white supremacist power structure because their own white supremacist power structure. And I reference Latin American blacks because of "the casta" if you have any idea about it and the new socio-economic divides it can bring for blacks.

    Got you. I checked out the article and my take from that is Blacks need to increase our education levels and entrepreneurship levels, to decrease reliance on low paying entry level jobs. Admittedly, I'm not too knowledgeable on race relations in Latin America so I'd have to read up on what you're saying and get back to you because it does sound valid. In any case, I don't think the solution would be us emigrating from the continent en masse.
  • StiffStiff Legion of Trill BG Posts: 7,723 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stiff wrote: »
    Stiff wrote: »
    rip.dilla wrote: »
    People always relocate to other countries and become citizens of their new country every day b.. .




    The US is a prime example of mass migration from different nationalities around the world. (it was originally a land stripped of its original inhabitants)



    Why should learning a new language and culture be a problem?

    None at all. If people wish to learn a new language and culture of our African brothers that's not a bad thing at all. My main issue is with this notion that the culture of Black Ameicans is somehow inferior to the cultures of the people of native-born Africans. All of our cultures and histories should be respected equally.

    We got people in here arguing that Blacks in America haven't progressed, that Blacks in America didn't contribute to the prosperity of America and that Blacks in America have no future. Somebody even questioned the very existence of a Black American culture. That's what I'm taking exception to. That's White supremacist rhetoric no matter where it comes from and it's just not true. Acting as if Blacks haven't built ANYTHING in America is crazy to me.

    @Stiff I agree with what you said but personally what do you think when you see the census and the future of us in America. People often talk of the fate of Latin American blacks soon coming for us.

    I don't think more Brown people in the country is automatically bad for Black people, because all that does is weaken the power of white supremacy. I just don't see Brown people coming in and realistically replacing Whites as oppressors. I'd have to see the situation of specific countries in Latin America as examples to speak directly to that. Most hispanics in America have the same political and economic interests as most Blacks and tend to lean liberal like Blacks(except Cubans if I'm not mistaken).

    Also if we look at how much power Jewish people have in this country you can see how the number of people don't necessarily have to be indicative to the amount of power a group has. Time will tell ultimately but I don't think Blacks should be as alarmed as Whites about the influx of of Brown people because it's not OUR power structure that's being threatened.

    I think you should travel/study Latin America and their black history as a clue yo what may happen in the Us. Latinos can he of everyrace BUT in recent census es they have been increasingly identifying as white (simultaneously, in their home countries more and more people are acknowledging their African ancestry) They have a larger population than blacks and are increasing in wealth and power. And while certain latino ethnicities are / can be allied with blacks, many are not and they seek white American acceptance. Personally, I think ligh skin hispanics will be come socially white like italians and irish did in the 20th century and continue white supremacy in the us.

    I could definitely see that happening. But it's a little more complicated than with the Italians and Irish. With them I think it was really only a matter of time since they were all essentially western Europeans. The majority of people coming here from Latin America are self-identified mestizo though, and they are Brown. The only difference between White hispanics and the Whites that live in America are that instead of having most of their ancestry come from Germany and England as they do here, it comes from Spain (or in the case of Brazil Portugal). So they're going to be White and identify as White regardless. Valid point nonetheless.

    Historically though, there have always been surges into this country from specific area and then they died down. It all depends on where they're coming from. If the economies of Latin American nations begin to develop at a higher rate then immigration from those areas will likely start to decrease. The immigration rate from Mexico as already declined from the levels they were at in the 90s. Time will tell though
  • MasterfultechMasterfultech Posts: 662 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stiff wrote: »
    Stiff wrote: »
    Stiff wrote: »
    rip.dilla wrote: »
    People always relocate to other countries and become citizens of their new country every day b.. .




    The US is a prime example of mass migration from different nationalities around the world. (it was originally a land stripped of its original inhabitants)



    Why should learning a new language and culture be a problem?

    None at all. If people wish to learn a new language and culture of our African brothers that's not a bad thing at all. My main issue is with this notion that the culture of Black Ameicans is somehow inferior to the cultures of the people of native-born Africans. All of our cultures and histories should be respected equally.

    We got people in here arguing that Blacks in America haven't progressed, that Blacks in America didn't contribute to the prosperity of America and that Blacks in America have no future. Somebody even questioned the very existence of a Black American culture. That's what I'm taking exception to. That's White supremacist rhetoric no matter where it comes from and it's just not true. Acting as if Blacks haven't built ANYTHING in America is crazy to me.

    @Stiff I agree with what you said but personally what do you think when you see the census and the future of us in America. People often talk of the fate of Latin American blacks soon coming for us.

    I don't think more Brown people in the country is automatically bad for Black people, because all that does is weaken the power of white supremacy. I just don't see Brown people coming in and realistically replacing Whites as oppressors. I'd have to see the situation of specific countries in Latin America as examples to speak directly to that. Most hispanics in America have the same political and economic interests as most Blacks and tend to lean liberal like Blacks(except Cubans if I'm not mistaken).

    Also if we look at how much power Jewish people have in this country you can see how the number of people don't necessarily have to be indicative to the amount of power a group has. Time will tell ultimately but I don't think Blacks should be as alarmed as Whites about the influx of of Brown people because it's not OUR power structure that's being threatened.

    Actually as more Mestizo come in certain jobs are being deferred to them rather than blacks. (There was actually a thread about it not to long ago ( http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/518513/amnesty-for-illegals-to-obliterate-economic-opportunities-for-african-americans#latest ). Also I like to add that mestizo aren't the only ones crossing over as Hispanic/Latino whites are coming too and this all adds to the white supremacist power structure because their own white supremacist power structure. And I reference Latin American blacks because of "the casta" if you have any idea about it and the new socio-economic divides it can bring for blacks.

    Got you. I checked out the article and my take from that is Blacks need to increase our education levels and entrepreneurship levels, to decrease reliance on low paying entry level jobs. Admittedly, I'm not too knowledgeable on race relations in Latin America so I'd have to read up on what you're saying and get back to you because it does sound valid. In any case, I don't think the solution would be us emigrating from the continent en masse.

    If you want a starting point Prof. Henry Louis Gates ran a special called black in Latin America that touched upon it a little. But I somewhat agree that blacks have to practice better group economics/self reliance as it is truly our path to freedom.
    Actions have reactions, don't be quick to judge
    You may not know the hardships people don't speak of
    It's best to step back, and observe with couth
    For we all must meet our moment of truth
    -Guru
    The Iconoclast
  • StiffStiff Legion of Trill BG Posts: 7,723 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stiff wrote: »
    Stiff wrote: »
    Stiff wrote: »
    rip.dilla wrote: »
    People always relocate to other countries and become citizens of their new country every day b.. .




    The US is a prime example of mass migration from different nationalities around the world. (it was originally a land stripped of its original inhabitants)



    Why should learning a new language and culture be a problem?

    None at all. If people wish to learn a new language and culture of our African brothers that's not a bad thing at all. My main issue is with this notion that the culture of Black Ameicans is somehow inferior to the cultures of the people of native-born Africans. All of our cultures and histories should be respected equally.

    We got people in here arguing that Blacks in America haven't progressed, that Blacks in America didn't contribute to the prosperity of America and that Blacks in America have no future. Somebody even questioned the very existence of a Black American culture. That's what I'm taking exception to. That's White supremacist rhetoric no matter where it comes from and it's just not true. Acting as if Blacks haven't built ANYTHING in America is crazy to me.

    @Stiff I agree with what you said but personally what do you think when you see the census and the future of us in America. People often talk of the fate of Latin American blacks soon coming for us.

    I don't think more Brown people in the country is automatically bad for Black people, because all that does is weaken the power of white supremacy. I just don't see Brown people coming in and realistically replacing Whites as oppressors. I'd have to see the situation of specific countries in Latin America as examples to speak directly to that. Most hispanics in America have the same political and economic interests as most Blacks and tend to lean liberal like Blacks(except Cubans if I'm not mistaken).

    Also if we look at how much power Jewish people have in this country you can see how the number of people don't necessarily have to be indicative to the amount of power a group has. Time will tell ultimately but I don't think Blacks should be as alarmed as Whites about the influx of of Brown people because it's not OUR power structure that's being threatened.

    Actually as more Mestizo come in certain jobs are being deferred to them rather than blacks. (There was actually a thread about it not to long ago ( http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/518513/amnesty-for-illegals-to-obliterate-economic-opportunities-for-african-americans#latest ). Also I like to add that mestizo aren't the only ones crossing over as Hispanic/Latino whites are coming too and this all adds to the white supremacist power structure because their own white supremacist power structure. And I reference Latin American blacks because of "the casta" if you have any idea about it and the new socio-economic divides it can bring for blacks.

    Got you. I checked out the article and my take from that is Blacks need to increase our education levels and entrepreneurship levels, to decrease reliance on low paying entry level jobs. Admittedly, I'm not too knowledgeable on race relations in Latin America so I'd have to read up on what you're saying and get back to you because it does sound valid. In any case, I don't think the solution would be us emigrating from the continent en masse.

    If you want a starting point Prof. Henry Louis Gates ran a special called black in Latin America that touched upon it a little. But I somewhat agree that blacks have to practice better group economics/self reliance as it is truly our path to freedom.

    Bet, thanks for that. Are Blacks over there in general facing systematic discrimination? Or is it more of a lack of opportunities to move up the ladder?
  • StillFaggyAFStillFaggyAF Queer LGBT CommunityPosts: 40,358 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stiff wrote: »
    Stiff wrote: »
    Stiff wrote: »
    Stiff wrote: »
    rip.dilla wrote: »
    People always relocate to other countries and become citizens of their new country every day b.. .




    The US is a prime example of mass migration from different nationalities around the world. (it was originally a land stripped of its original inhabitants)



    Why should learning a new language and culture be a problem?

    None at all. If people wish to learn a new language and culture of our African brothers that's not a bad thing at all. My main issue is with this notion that the culture of Black Ameicans is somehow inferior to the cultures of the people of native-born Africans. All of our cultures and histories should be respected equally.

    We got people in here arguing that Blacks in America haven't progressed, that Blacks in America didn't contribute to the prosperity of America and that Blacks in America have no future. Somebody even questioned the very existence of a Black American culture. That's what I'm taking exception to. That's White supremacist rhetoric no matter where it comes from and it's just not true. Acting as if Blacks haven't built ANYTHING in America is crazy to me.

    @Stiff I agree with what you said but personally what do you think when you see the census and the future of us in America. People often talk of the fate of Latin American blacks soon coming for us.

    I don't think more Brown people in the country is automatically bad for Black people, because all that does is weaken the power of white supremacy. I just don't see Brown people coming in and realistically replacing Whites as oppressors. I'd have to see the situation of specific countries in Latin America as examples to speak directly to that. Most hispanics in America have the same political and economic interests as most Blacks and tend to lean liberal like Blacks(except Cubans if I'm not mistaken).

    Also if we look at how much power Jewish people have in this country you can see how the number of people don't necessarily have to be indicative to the amount of power a group has. Time will tell ultimately but I don't think Blacks should be as alarmed as Whites about the influx of of Brown people because it's not OUR power structure that's being threatened.

    Actually as more Mestizo come in certain jobs are being deferred to them rather than blacks. (There was actually a thread about it not to long ago ( http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/518513/amnesty-for-illegals-to-obliterate-economic-opportunities-for-african-americans#latest ). Also I like to add that mestizo aren't the only ones crossing over as Hispanic/Latino whites are coming too and this all adds to the white supremacist power structure because their own white supremacist power structure. And I reference Latin American blacks because of "the casta" if you have any idea about it and the new socio-economic divides it can bring for blacks.

    Got you. I checked out the article and my take from that is Blacks need to increase our education levels and entrepreneurship levels, to decrease reliance on low paying entry level jobs. Admittedly, I'm not too knowledgeable on race relations in Latin America so I'd have to read up on what you're saying and get back to you because it does sound valid. In any case, I don't think the solution would be us emigrating from the continent en masse.

    If you want a starting point Prof. Henry Louis Gates ran a special called black in Latin America that touched upon it a little. But I somewhat agree that blacks have to practice better group economics/self reliance as it is truly our path to freedom.

    Bet, thanks for that. Are Blacks over there in general facing systematic discrimination? Or is it more of a lack of opportunities to move up the ladder?

    kind of both. depends on the country. that particular series is on youtube btw

    LvbxPzB.gif

    tumblr_nhmcjbdFri1snb2l4o5_r1_500.gif
    full?d=1430459989


    Masterfultech
  • MasterfultechMasterfultech Posts: 662 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stiff wrote: »
    Stiff wrote: »
    Stiff wrote: »
    Stiff wrote: »
    rip.dilla wrote: »
    People always relocate to other countries and become citizens of their new country every day b.. .




    The US is a prime example of mass migration from different nationalities around the world. (it was originally a land stripped of its original inhabitants)



    Why should learning a new language and culture be a problem?

    None at all. If people wish to learn a new language and culture of our African brothers that's not a bad thing at all. My main issue is with this notion that the culture of Black Ameicans is somehow inferior to the cultures of the people of native-born Africans. All of our cultures and histories should be respected equally.

    We got people in here arguing that Blacks in America haven't progressed, that Blacks in America didn't contribute to the prosperity of America and that Blacks in America have no future. Somebody even questioned the very existence of a Black American culture. That's what I'm taking exception to. That's White supremacist rhetoric no matter where it comes from and it's just not true. Acting as if Blacks haven't built ANYTHING in America is crazy to me.

    @Stiff I agree with what you said but personally what do you think when you see the census and the future of us in America. People often talk of the fate of Latin American blacks soon coming for us.

    I don't think more Brown people in the country is automatically bad for Black people, because all that does is weaken the power of white supremacy. I just don't see Brown people coming in and realistically replacing Whites as oppressors. I'd have to see the situation of specific countries in Latin America as examples to speak directly to that. Most hispanics in America have the same political and economic interests as most Blacks and tend to lean liberal like Blacks(except Cubans if I'm not mistaken).

    Also if we look at how much power Jewish people have in this country you can see how the number of people don't necessarily have to be indicative to the amount of power a group has. Time will tell ultimately but I don't think Blacks should be as alarmed as Whites about the influx of of Brown people because it's not OUR power structure that's being threatened.

    Actually as more Mestizo come in certain jobs are being deferred to them rather than blacks. (There was actually a thread about it not to long ago ( http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/518513/amnesty-for-illegals-to-obliterate-economic-opportunities-for-african-americans#latest ). Also I like to add that mestizo aren't the only ones crossing over as Hispanic/Latino whites are coming too and this all adds to the white supremacist power structure because their own white supremacist power structure. And I reference Latin American blacks because of "the casta" if you have any idea about it and the new socio-economic divides it can bring for blacks.

    Got you. I checked out the article and my take from that is Blacks need to increase our education levels and entrepreneurship levels, to decrease reliance on low paying entry level jobs. Admittedly, I'm not too knowledgeable on race relations in Latin America so I'd have to read up on what you're saying and get back to you because it does sound valid. In any case, I don't think the solution would be us emigrating from the continent en masse.

    If you want a starting point Prof. Henry Louis Gates ran a special called black in Latin America that touched upon it a little. But I somewhat agree that blacks have to practice better group economics/self reliance as it is truly our path to freedom.

    Bet, thanks for that. Are Blacks over there in general facing systematic discrimination? Or is it more of a lack of opportunities to move up the ladder?

    They face all that we face and in some opinions more as they have almost no opportunity for the same education and just recently things like programs targeting them positively and ideas of black empowerment are getting to them. Some things even resemble a Faux Jim Crow. (I'll use Brazil as an example to state that being black is equal to being an inconvenience/pest and there is no one drop rule (something commonly found in Latin America) as everyone else kinda embraces white supremacy but as i stated earlier group economics is starting (http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/518559/booming-black-businesses-fuel-brazil-s-new-middle-class).
    Actions have reactions, don't be quick to judge
    You may not know the hardships people don't speak of
    It's best to step back, and observe with couth
    For we all must meet our moment of truth
    -Guru
  • onthaflyonthafly Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭✭
    Hell yeah!, Take my ass to the Mother Land!
    mryounggun wrote: »
    'Hey, this country was built on your backs and your hard work. Now that we no longer need you or want you, here is a very tiny, minuscule portion of what you and your ancestors earned. Please leave everything you have every known, the freedoms that this country affords you and the relative safety of this country and never return'.

    I'll pass.

    I'm just gonna get rich off of this American money and then take it to Africa. Damn these American businesses.
    Help out a struggling white family - http://www.gofundme.com/no11vs

    or

    Support our troops - http://www.gofundme.com/nodk0o
  • zombiezombie Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stiff wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    african americans are rich but you are not more developed than africans because your riches come from other people you don't own shit and the money you make working for other races you quickly give right back to them. but i guess if that's your idea of development you are right

    This statement makes no sense. Our money isn't good because it comes from other people? Unless you own a money printer all of your money is going to come from other people, in exchange for a good or a service. That's how business works. And you also keep ignoring the fact that United States has more Black Millionaires per capita than the entire continent of Africa. So if Black Americans don't own shit, then don't leave out the fact that Black Africans don't own shit either.

    zombie wrote: »
    in capitalism you don't have a friend it's your group vs the others and any alliance is temporary.

    And if this cynical view is the one you carry, cool. But where'd you get the idea that the entire Black race is a monolithic group moving towards the same goals in unison? If that were the case it would be great for us all, but it's not the real situation. Putting a million in the pockets of Black Americans and shipping them over there wouldn't move us toward that.

    You do not understand simply having money is useless for attaining freedom, it's not enough, you need wealth african americans don't actually produce wealth. but as a group you make alot of money. Also why do you take things to the extreme @the bolded i never said or implied the bolded that's your mind telling you that. You have more black millionaires but how do they make their money and what economic effect does it have on the community?? black people in america are consumers not producers. you need to actually run and control the economics of your own community.

    black africans own more than african americans when it comes to things that are actually important they have more wealth you have more money there is an actually distinction. african nations currently lack the ability to easily turn that wealth into profit this will eventually change.

    the black race is not a monolith but our interest run together and yes we all do have the same goal, freedom.
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