Iraqi troops suffer mass slaughter one mile from Baghdad: the general ISIS Chat thread

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  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zombie wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    @kingblaze84‌

    we still have allies around the world because they know we won't abandon them, but if we show that we can drop israel it means we can drop anybody. We used to have close ties to iran but not any more that bridge has been burnt a long time ago.

    israel has to be an apartheid state for it to exist and i have no issue with that, they cannot give arabs equal citizenship if they did in a generation it won't be israel anymore, it would no longer be a jewish state which would defeat the purpose of there being an israel in the first place. south africa was a totally different situation because religion was not at the core of the problem. You should know how islam works by now the arabs would slaughter/convert the jews if israel did away with apartheid there is no mandela in this situation.

    I don't care how much people hate america or israel, america is going to get hate no matter what because we are the powerful ones and have to make the choices that other nations don't have to, because every time there is some problem in the world every one looks to us. israel is hated because it exist and does what it needs to to keep existing. I am not a christian fundamentalist but like it or not until the middle east changes we are stuck with israel and your cowardly liberal nonsense won't change that.

    If we allow iran to take the lead in this isis situation we risk making iran more powerful and iran is a nation that is hostile to us and our allies also it could mean spreading war and sunni-shia fighting which would risk oil production and ? with the world wide economy. People are going against isis??? who iran is not doing much they ? what to black mail the world for their support against isis, iran cannot be trusted. turkey is not doing much and they are the number one nation that should be fighting isis. but they won't because right now their is political struggles between islamist and secularist in turkey.

    SMH at your views on Israel, they have to be an apartheid state? What ever happened to democracy and equal rights? The Palestinians don't have a Mandela but Mahmoud Abbas, one of the leaders of the Palestinians, has advocated a peaceful way to reach peace. Israel has ignored that and continues to steal the land/water of Palestinians and butcher them like cows on a farm, in front of the whole world. America can reduce the hate it gets worldwide if it STOPS THIS SUPPORT, but you refuse to listen to the Arab League and international community. Your Benjamin Netanyahu attitude, shared by the idiots of American Congress (who have a 12% approval rating), is one of many reasons America gets the hate it sadly deserves.

    You don't trust Iran, but you trust Saudi Arabia? LOL are you high? I said it once and I'll say it AGAIN, SAUDIA ARABIA IS THE HOME OF MANY AL-QAEDA FINANCIERS and they ALSO are helping to to fund ISIS. The princes and emirs doing so are often part of the Saudi GOVT, why do you think the 9/11 report was BLACKED OUT in so many paragraphs when it comes to the Saudis? THINK man THINK. So from an American perspective at least, we might as well let Iran fight ISIS and if the Saudis are serious about being part of this coalition, let them fight as well. It would prove or show at least, that they are serious about "the threat" of ISIS. And Iran is hostile to American interests there because America is causing chaos and destruction all over that region. When that changes, our relations with Iran may change. China gets along great with Iran, it's time America do the same. Iran can be very useful for America.

    There is no equal rights under islam answer this question what do you think is going to happen to the jews if israel is no longer an apartheid state???? mahmoud abbas is willing to partner with hamas, hamas has as part of it's consistution the destruction of israel.

    if it were up to me israel would stop all the settlements i don't care how much people hate america haters are going to hate and at this point they won't stop so what's the point in begging and doing what they want?? there is none. I don't trust the saudis or iran but saudi arabia we at least have relations with and it's not their boldly stated goal to destroy america and israel. WE CANNOT allow the destruction of israel for the reasons i gave you already unless you can give me a proper rebuttal to those reasons what's the point?? you keep saying the say ? and give no possible solutions to the problems that will arise for your run way and hope it all works out plan

    any saudi that funds terrorism should be killed it's that simple.

    I'm glad we've made progress with you by you admitting that Israel should stop the settlements. With that being said, if Israel is that scared of Palestinians one day out breeding the Israelis, then MAYBE Israel should have thought about that before setting up their homeland in the middle of the Arab world. They should have tried to settle their people somewhere in Europe or a more isolated place in the world. Spare me the speech about their ancient homeland, apartheid is not an acceptable thing in today's modern world. I didn't say America can get rid of ALL its haters by the Israeli-Palestinian conflict being solved, but it would get rid of probably most of them. Less cowboy invasions and securing our border would also help solve the terror problem.

    Your fears of Israel using nukes to take out all of its enemies in a ruthless manner is even more reason to isolate and cut off all aid to Israel, and maybe take out Israeli leadership if necessary. Isolating Israel enough would solve your fears of this, I can tell your history knowledge isn't great, remember when apartheid South Africa made vague threats of using its nukes if too many African govts and people gave them problems? America put so much economic pressure on that govt that it eventually disbanded because it wasn't worth the cost to business anymore, and apartheid SA even dismantled its nuclear weapons. SEE how worldwide isolation can work? It doesn't have to be all about bombs and bullets. If Israel is isolated enough, the govt there as it exists would collapse faster then people can imagine, America is really its only friend in the world right now. The only one that matters at least.

    Regarding the Saudis, you are willing to overlook things because of their oil and economy. That's fine, but why the big exception with Iran? Iran has its own intentions in the region but Iran has shown several times lately it is willing to improve relations with America, and America must make every effort to do the same. Iran is actively taking on ISIS, with boots on the ground, while Saudi Arabian princes and emirs give ISIS millions a year. Iran hates Israel true, but so what, so does most of the world lol. Israel is no friend to America, I'd rather choose sides with Iran then Israel. And if Israel wants to act a fool with nuclear weapons, AGAIN, more reason to isolate and take out Israeli leadership if one is desperate to protect the oil in the region.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2014
    The Crusades weren't total wars compared to WW2 but the wars were massive in scope, I'll get more in detail on this later but in the end, America has zero moral authority to wage any total war in the Middle East, too many would be united against us (just like what's happening now); the war would last way too long and Americans would never have the stomach for it
  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Crusades weren't total wars compared to WW2 but the wars were massive in scope, I'll get more in detail on this later but in the end, America has zero moral authority to wage any total war in the Middle East, too many would be united against us (just like what's happening now); the war would last way too long and Americans would never have the stomach for it

    A war having massive death counts does not make it a total war a total war in the mid-east would last a year at most the united states of america has resources of many sorts up the ass, technically we could crush the entire middle east in a heart beat it's just not in our interest to do so right now. These radical muslims don't know what they are asking for they keep pushing AMERICA and they are going to get it, six arab nation could not even beat israel back in the 1960's they don't stand a chance in hell against us now.

    It's only because this generation of american people are so weak that this ? goes on. Moral authority is a joke once war starts morals get thrown out the ? window and people do what they feel they need to win most nations that have fought wars and won give no ? about moral authority.
  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @kingblaze84

    Iran wants the total destruction of israel and america therefore they cannot be trusted all the saudis want is to stay in power and keep influence in the region that's fine with me i have not read anything that would lead me to believe that the saudis want to wipe us off the map. Iran is playing a game it offers help with the isis problem but at the cost of us easing back on letting develop nuclear weapons.

    israel has all right to use it's nukes or any other weapon it has to protect itself, but america can prevent what would be a horror in so many ways by supporting israel now so that they won't feel pushed to the limit. trying to use the south african situation is a horrible comparison because south africa had choices that israel does not have israel has to be that way it is or face extinction.

    when south africa integrated the white people there stayed on top for the most part. that would not happen in israel because culturally speaking muslims have to rule supreme in muslim lands and they consider israel to be muslim land. You don't understand the religious mind these people on both sides of the israel-palestine conflict are never going to stop unless supreme force is used. you have not answered my question so i will ask again what will happen to the jews if israel is no longer an apartheid state???
  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    If America IS SERIOUS about degrading and destroying ISIS, it would also turn its guns and bombs on Saudi Arabia, home of most of the 9/11 hijackers and Al-Qaeda financiers.
    alright, so if Saddam had, hypothetically, financed or housed terrorists, it would be legit for the US to have removed him?
    or, maybe to put this another way, the US should take out SA's government and not worry about a possible destabilized mess to follow?

    because i am detecting some inconsistent concepts here...
    So America abandoning Israel as it turns into a fascist state would not affect us in the negative, in fact the Middle East would love America for it.
    why do you think the US is ? THE MOST HATED but could do something like this and turn all that around?
    The Crusades were not a total war? SMH......I will pretend you didn't say that. You obviously forgot the Crusades lasted 200 years and a huge amount of people died. And the Christians lost overall BADLY in the end, Saladin kicked the ? of Christian armies back and forth like Mike Tyson against a crippled old man. The Middle East, birthplace of Christianity and Judaism, is ironically Muslim now. The total war strategy failed and backfired badly.
    this is a drastically oversimplified version of the Crusades, starting with "the Europeans obviously did SOMETHING right to have all that stuff for Saladin to take" and "you know, some of those Crusades sort of didn't involve the Middle East?"
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2014
    janklow wrote: »
    If America IS SERIOUS about degrading and destroying ISIS, it would also turn its guns and bombs on Saudi Arabia, home of most of the 9/11 hijackers and Al-Qaeda financiers.
    alright, so if Saddam had, hypothetically, financed or housed terrorists, it would be legit for the US to have removed him?
    or, maybe to put this another way, the US should take out SA's government and not worry about a possible destabilized mess to follow?

    because i am detecting some inconsistent concepts here...
    So America abandoning Israel as it turns into a fascist state would not affect us in the negative, in fact the Middle East would love America for it.
    why do you think the US is ? THE MOST HATED but could do something like this and turn all that around?
    The Crusades were not a total war? SMH......I will pretend you didn't say that. You obviously forgot the Crusades lasted 200 years and a huge amount of people died. And the Christians lost overall BADLY in the end, Saladin kicked the ? of Christian armies back and forth like Mike Tyson against a crippled old man. The Middle East, birthplace of Christianity and Judaism, is ironically Muslim now. The total war strategy failed and backfired badly.
    this is a drastically oversimplified version of the Crusades, starting with "the Europeans obviously did SOMETHING right to have all that stuff for Saladin to take" and "you know, some of those Crusades sort of didn't involve the Middle East?"

    Regarding Saudi Arabia and the Middle East in general, my attitude is that America should generally butt out of the problems of the Middle East, at least for awhile. This is my general stance. With that being said, I'm simply telling those who support American war in Iraq that they need to understand if one TRULY wants to get rid of ISIS, war in Iraq and Syria won't solve anything, because Saudi Arabians with connections to the govt are pouring millions and weapons/ammo to ISIS AND Al-Qaeda. Taking on Saudi Arabia and ISIS isn't realistic obviously, so I'm stating there is not an American military solution to this problem, only political in the end. It's a Sunni vs Shiite war that America has no business being involved in (for the most part, we agree ISIS is doing some horrible things there). I have no problem with America providing humanitarian aid though.

    As far as America's reputation in the Middle East, I admit the Israeli issues would not solve all of the problems America has in the region. But it would get rid of most of the problems the region has with us because as the king of Jordan said and as Osama Bin Laden said himself, the American ties to Israel brings negativity because Israel is blatant with its apartheid and America gives money and aid to Israel. CIA officials and American generals said the same thing publicly, American ties to the apartheid state of Israel makes America look evil. I know America isn't at heart an evil nation (some say it is, I won't go that far) but American foreign policy is SEEN as evil in the region and that's bad.

    On the Crusades, yes I know Christians did kick a lot of ass in the beginning but out of the 200 year conflict, it's fair to say Christians lost the most in the region overall. And what do you mean some of the Crusades didn't involve the Middle East, do you mean Muslims were the aggressors several times? If so yes I agree.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2014
    zombie wrote: »
    @kingblaze84

    Iran wants the total destruction of israel and america therefore they cannot be trusted all the saudis want is to stay in power and keep influence in the region that's fine with me i have not read anything that would lead me to believe that the saudis want to wipe us off the map. Iran is playing a game it offers help with the isis problem but at the cost of us easing back on letting develop nuclear weapons.

    israel has all right to use it's nukes or any other weapon it has to protect itself, but america can prevent what would be a horror in so many ways by supporting israel now so that they won't feel pushed to the limit. trying to use the south african situation is a horrible comparison because south africa had choices that israel does not have israel has to be that way it is or face extinction.

    when south africa integrated the white people there stayed on top for the most part. that would not happen in israel because culturally speaking muslims have to rule supreme in muslim lands and they consider israel to be muslim land. You don't understand the religious mind these people on both sides of the israel-palestine conflict are never going to stop unless supreme force is used. you have not answered my question so i will ask again what will happen to the jews if israel is no longer an apartheid state???

    If the Jews of Israel no longer have an apartheid state, they will simply have to do what ALL HUMANS have to do, ADAPT. They may not like how Palestinians and Arabs vote (haha), but Israel AGAIN should have thought about that before settling in the Middle East, land of them being outnumbered 1000-1. That's not my ? problem if Israelis don't like how Palestinians would vote in their land, they would just have to learn how to survive, as the White people of South Africa are surviving in that land. White people in South Africa still have the most money and best land, and the Israelis could learn after them. Plus Jews lived for thousands of years alongside Arabs and while Europe was tormenting them, Jews had solid relations in many parts of the Arab world. If Jews can survive in Iran, then they can survive a non-apartheid state in Israel.

    Apartheid is going nowhere for Israelis, unless Israelis like having rockets fired at them and little kids throwing rocks at them all the time. Doesn't seem like a pleasant life to me.
  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2014
    zombie wrote: »
    @kingblaze84

    Iran wants the total destruction of israel and america therefore they cannot be trusted all the saudis want is to stay in power and keep influence in the region that's fine with me i have not read anything that would lead me to believe that the saudis want to wipe us off the map. Iran is playing a game it offers help with the isis problem but at the cost of us easing back on letting develop nuclear weapons.

    israel has all right to use it's nukes or any other weapon it has to protect itself, but america can prevent what would be a horror in so many ways by supporting israel now so that they won't feel pushed to the limit. trying to use the south african situation is a horrible comparison because south africa had choices that israel does not have israel has to be that way it is or face extinction.

    when south africa integrated the white people there stayed on top for the most part. that would not happen in israel because culturally speaking muslims have to rule supreme in muslim lands and they consider israel to be muslim land. You don't understand the religious mind these people on both sides of the israel-palestine conflict are never going to stop unless supreme force is used. you have not answered my question so i will ask again what will happen to the jews if israel is no longer an apartheid state???

    If the Jews of Israel no longer have an apartheid state, they will simply have to do what ALL HUMANS have to do, ADAPT. They may not like how Palestinians and Arabs vote (haha), but Israel AGAIN should have thought about that before settling in the Middle East, land of them being outnumbered 1000-1. That's not my ? problem if Israelis don't like how Palestinians would vote in their land, they would just have to learn how to survive, as the White people of South Africa are surviving in that land. White people in South Africa still have the most money and best land, and the Israelis could learn after them. Plus Jews lived for thousands of years alongside Arabs and while Europe was tormenting them, Jews had solid relations in many parts of the Arab world. If Jews can survive in Iran, then they can survive a non-apartheid state in Israel.

    Apartheid is going nowhere for Israelis, unless Israelis like having rockets fired at them and little kids throwing rocks at them all the time. Doesn't seem like a pleasant life to me.

    The bold is the most funniest ? you have ever said LOL their is no adaption living under islam especially when islam teaches that jews are pigs. WE ARE not in the world of 700 years ago the jews of today are not going to accept living under the submission of islam especially sunni islam and paying jizah.

    So your answer to my question is we should just let the jews be killed, you have no solution . south africa is not israel the situation and cultures are vastly different. The jews will be slaughtered if what you want happens therefore israel would be in the right to use any means to defend itself. it is no longer palestinian land they lost the wars and don't have the power to take it back it's israel now. The palestinians and the arabs are going to have to learn to except that the sooner they do the closer we will be to peace.

    israelis don't have a pleasant life but at least they have a life and the state of war is actually not that bad for israel because it give them an excuse to take palestinian land, you don't really know ? about islam they cannot accept peace with israel.
  • CracceR
    CracceR Members Posts: 4,346 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zombie wrote: »
    CracceR wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    CracceR wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    let them have it, because if we go back we should own it permenantly.


    i say ? iraq

    That's not an option we would run the risk of wars spreading all over the mid-east eventually threatening american interest in the region. In addition these people are religiously motivated to destroy or convert america so leaving them alone would be like letting a wound fester.

    dude u r hilarious, u support american invasions, wars etc. in the middle east
    but u mad about european colonization of the americas and africa

    I support american invasions in the middle east because those people have a stated goal of taking over the world
    however the nations that were colonized by europe did not have the goal of taking over the ? planet and posed no real threat to europe.

    stay in donkey ? you don't have the education to talk to me about any historical or currently pertinent issues

    ur moms a donkey
    these wars are for oil, money, territories etc..
    and these old wars were for ressources, territories etc..
    same thing basically u r blinded

    Actually, no they are not if america wanted territories in iraq we would have ? stayed and iraq would not be in the situation it's in now. the resources of iraq, oil is sold on the open market.

    when european colonized a place they stayed there and sucked the resources out for themselves the only real resource iraq has is oil and america does not need to buy oil from iraq the war for oil myth is a lie that the liberal media has soul you idiots

    these are u.s. installed goverments, puppets and u.s. trained military in the middle east
    of course its not exactly the same as european colonization but pretty similar
    and iont really care about any media liberal or not u jamaican republican bish

  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    CracceR wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    CracceR wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    CracceR wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    let them have it, because if we go back we should own it permenantly.


    i say ? iraq

    That's not an option we would run the risk of wars spreading all over the mid-east eventually threatening american interest in the region. In addition these people are religiously motivated to destroy or convert america so leaving them alone would be like letting a wound fester.

    dude u r hilarious, u support american invasions, wars etc. in the middle east
    but u mad about european colonization of the americas and africa

    I support american invasions in the middle east because those people have a stated goal of taking over the world
    however the nations that were colonized by europe did not have the goal of taking over the ? planet and posed no real threat to europe.

    stay in donkey ? you don't have the education to talk to me about any historical or currently pertinent issues

    ur moms a donkey
    these wars are for oil, money, territories etc..
    and these old wars were for ressources, territories etc..
    same thing basically u r blinded

    Actually, no they are not if america wanted territories in iraq we would have ? stayed and iraq would not be in the situation it's in now. the resources of iraq, oil is sold on the open market.

    when european colonized a place they stayed there and sucked the resources out for themselves the only real resource iraq has is oil and america does not need to buy oil from iraq the war for oil myth is a lie that the liberal media has soul you idiots

    these are u.s. installed goverments, puppets and u.s. trained military in the middle east
    of course its not exactly the same as european colonization but pretty similar
    and iont really care about any media liberal or not u jamaican republican bish

    NAh, it's nothing alike the purpose of colonization was for each colony to feed the mother nation with resources the united states of america for the most part does not operate like that because today we have a free market system and there is open competition in these market for there resources and access to there consumer markets. Do you care to list these puppet governments??? because iraq kicked us out the u.k is responsible for the existence of
    saudi arabia, jordan and lebanon all three governments do whatever the ? they want so does syria and iran

    we are responsible for saddam, the corruption of iran, and to a lesser degree egypt. most of the nation in the middle east chose there own path or were the creation of european powers from the last century. the populace of these nations hate us because we won't let tiny little israel be destroyed and it's people forced into submission to islam.

    i am an independent
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2014
    zombie wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    @kingblaze84

    Iran wants the total destruction of israel and america therefore they cannot be trusted all the saudis want is to stay in power and keep influence in the region that's fine with me i have not read anything that would lead me to believe that the saudis want to wipe us off the map. Iran is playing a game it offers help with the isis problem but at the cost of us easing back on letting develop nuclear weapons.

    israel has all right to use it's nukes or any other weapon it has to protect itself, but america can prevent what would be a horror in so many ways by supporting israel now so that they won't feel pushed to the limit. trying to use the south african situation is a horrible comparison because south africa had choices that israel does not have israel has to be that way it is or face extinction.

    when south africa integrated the white people there stayed on top for the most part. that would not happen in israel because culturally speaking muslims have to rule supreme in muslim lands and they consider israel to be muslim land. You don't understand the religious mind these people on both sides of the israel-palestine conflict are never going to stop unless supreme force is used. you have not answered my question so i will ask again what will happen to the jews if israel is no longer an apartheid state???

    If the Jews of Israel no longer have an apartheid state, they will simply have to do what ALL HUMANS have to do, ADAPT. They may not like how Palestinians and Arabs vote (haha), but Israel AGAIN should have thought about that before settling in the Middle East, land of them being outnumbered 1000-1. That's not my ? problem if Israelis don't like how Palestinians would vote in their land, they would just have to learn how to survive, as the White people of South Africa are surviving in that land. White people in South Africa still have the most money and best land, and the Israelis could learn after them. Plus Jews lived for thousands of years alongside Arabs and while Europe was tormenting them, Jews had solid relations in many parts of the Arab world. If Jews can survive in Iran, then they can survive a non-apartheid state in Israel.

    Apartheid is going nowhere for Israelis, unless Israelis like having rockets fired at them and little kids throwing rocks at them all the time. Doesn't seem like a pleasant life to me.

    The bold is the most funniest ? you have ever said LOL their is no adaption living under islam especially when islam teaches that jews are pigs. WE ARE not in the world of 700 years ago the jews of today are not going to accept living under the submission of islam especially sunni islam and paying jizah.

    So your answer to my question is we should just let the jews be killed, you have no solution . south africa is not israel the situation and cultures are vastly different. The jews will be slaughtered if what you want happens therefore israel would be in the right to use any means to defend itself. it is no longer palestinian land they lost the wars and don't have the power to take it back it's israel now. The palestinians and the arabs are going to have to learn to except that the sooner they do the closer we will be to peace.

    israelis don't have a pleasant life but at least they have a life and the state of war is actually not that bad for israel because it give them an excuse to take palestinian land, you don't really know ? about islam they cannot accept peace with israel.

    Rush Limbaugh is that you? Sean Hannity, is that you?

    Why are you acting like all the Palestinians are Muslim, there are many Christian and secular Palestinians living in that land. Up to 35% of all Palestinians in the area are Christian according to some sources. You do realize Christianity, your religion, was founded around Bethlehem, Palestinian territory, right?

    And if Israel was to give up apartheid and Palestinians then try to slaughter the Israelis, then Israel would use its military as they always do. And the Jews can't be slaughtered off, stop acting like they are a weak people, the Jews there have way bigger weapons, armor, and fighting capability compared to the Arabs. The Arabs can't beat the Jews for ? , it's obvious and one reason why your paranoid fears of "Jews being slaughtered" is overblown. The Israelis there could build fortified communities and in fact they already do, stop this nonsense of you stating the Jews will be slaughtered off if apartheid there ends. Maybe Israel should enter a dictatorship, so no one votes? Maybe that would keep the Jewish supremacy you want in Israel, but the apartheid, stealing of water/land, and kicking Palestinians and Arabs out of there homes is EVIL and immoral, and must be stopped.

    Again, stop your nonsensical fear of Jews being slaughtered, they have the weapons and armor to a level that it will never happen.
  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2014
    zombie wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    @kingblaze84

    Iran wants the total destruction of israel and america therefore they cannot be trusted all the saudis want is to stay in power and keep influence in the region that's fine with me i have not read anything that would lead me to believe that the saudis want to wipe us off the map. Iran is playing a game it offers help with the isis problem but at the cost of us easing back on letting develop nuclear weapons.

    israel has all right to use it's nukes or any other weapon it has to protect itself, but america can prevent what would be a horror in so many ways by supporting israel now so that they won't feel pushed to the limit. trying to use the south african situation is a horrible comparison because south africa had choices that israel does not have israel has to be that way it is or face extinction.

    when south africa integrated the white people there stayed on top for the most part. that would not happen in israel because culturally speaking muslims have to rule supreme in muslim lands and they consider israel to be muslim land. You don't understand the religious mind these people on both sides of the israel-palestine conflict are never going to stop unless supreme force is used. you have not answered my question so i will ask again what will happen to the jews if israel is no longer an apartheid state???

    If the Jews of Israel no longer have an apartheid state, they will simply have to do what ALL HUMANS have to do, ADAPT. They may not like how Palestinians and Arabs vote (haha), but Israel AGAIN should have thought about that before settling in the Middle East, land of them being outnumbered 1000-1. That's not my ? problem if Israelis don't like how Palestinians would vote in their land, they would just have to learn how to survive, as the White people of South Africa are surviving in that land. White people in South Africa still have the most money and best land, and the Israelis could learn after them. Plus Jews lived for thousands of years alongside Arabs and while Europe was tormenting them, Jews had solid relations in many parts of the Arab world. If Jews can survive in Iran, then they can survive a non-apartheid state in Israel.

    Apartheid is going nowhere for Israelis, unless Israelis like having rockets fired at them and little kids throwing rocks at them all the time. Doesn't seem like a pleasant life to me.

    The bold is the most funniest ? you have ever said LOL their is no adaption living under islam especially when islam teaches that jews are pigs. WE ARE not in the world of 700 years ago the jews of today are not going to accept living under the submission of islam especially sunni islam and paying jizah.

    So your answer to my question is we should just let the jews be killed, you have no solution . south africa is not israel the situation and cultures are vastly different. The jews will be slaughtered if what you want happens therefore israel would be in the right to use any means to defend itself. it is no longer palestinian land they lost the wars and don't have the power to take it back it's israel now. The palestinians and the arabs are going to have to learn to except that the sooner they do the closer we will be to peace.

    israelis don't have a pleasant life but at least they have a life and the state of war is actually not that bad for israel because it give them an excuse to take palestinian land, you don't really know ? about islam they cannot accept peace with israel.

    Rush Limbaugh is that you? Sean Hannity, is that you?

    Why are you acting like all the Palestinians are Muslim, there are many Christian and secular Palestinians living in that land. Up to 35% of all Palestinians in the area are Christian according to some sources. You do realize Christianity, your religion, was founded around Bethlehem, Palestinian territory, right?

    And if Israel was to give up apartheid and Palestinians then try to slaughter the Israelis, then Israel would use its military as they always do. And the Jews can't be slaughtered off, stop acting like they are a weak people, the Jews there have way bigger weapons, armor, and fighting capability compared to the Arabs. The Arabs can't beat the Jews for ? , it's obvious and one reason why your paranoid fears of "Jews being slaughtered" is overblown. The Israelis there could build fortified communities and in fact they already do, stop this nonsense of you stating the Jews will be slaughtered off if apartheid there ends. Maybe Israel should enter a dictatorship, so no one votes? Maybe that would keep the Jewish supremacy you want in Israel, but the apartheid, stealing of water/land, and kicking Palestinians and Arabs out of there homes is EVIL and immoral, and must be stopped.

    Again, stop your nonsensical fear of Jews being slaughtered, they have the weapons and armor to a level that it will never happen.

    there are palestinians christians but so the ? what they don't control their islamic neigorbors who would slaughter every jew in israel if given the chance and i asked you what you would do about the jews.

    the jews can't be slaughtered off because of the system they run in which muslims are kept out of the ranks of power. what you are asking for is the removal of that system. If they integrate muslims are going to be in the military and every area of the state it's too high a risk for a nation that was founded on giving the jewish people a homeland to take. Pay attention to what i am saying and stop acting stupid HOW LONG do you think these fortified communities can hold out if the government decides to integrate?? a few decades at most

    the only thing we agree on is that israel should stop the settlements but for israel to survive they cannot just make the arab muslims in israel full citizens.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2014
    zombie wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    @kingblaze84

    Iran wants the total destruction of israel and america therefore they cannot be trusted all the saudis want is to stay in power and keep influence in the region that's fine with me i have not read anything that would lead me to believe that the saudis want to wipe us off the map. Iran is playing a game it offers help with the isis problem but at the cost of us easing back on letting develop nuclear weapons.

    israel has all right to use it's nukes or any other weapon it has to protect itself, but america can prevent what would be a horror in so many ways by supporting israel now so that they won't feel pushed to the limit. trying to use the south african situation is a horrible comparison because south africa had choices that israel does not have israel has to be that way it is or face extinction.

    when south africa integrated the white people there stayed on top for the most part. that would not happen in israel because culturally speaking muslims have to rule supreme in muslim lands and they consider israel to be muslim land. You don't understand the religious mind these people on both sides of the israel-palestine conflict are never going to stop unless supreme force is used. you have not answered my question so i will ask again what will happen to the jews if israel is no longer an apartheid state???

    If the Jews of Israel no longer have an apartheid state, they will simply have to do what ALL HUMANS have to do, ADAPT. They may not like how Palestinians and Arabs vote (haha), but Israel AGAIN should have thought about that before settling in the Middle East, land of them being outnumbered 1000-1. That's not my ? problem if Israelis don't like how Palestinians would vote in their land, they would just have to learn how to survive, as the White people of South Africa are surviving in that land. White people in South Africa still have the most money and best land, and the Israelis could learn after them. Plus Jews lived for thousands of years alongside Arabs and while Europe was tormenting them, Jews had solid relations in many parts of the Arab world. If Jews can survive in Iran, then they can survive a non-apartheid state in Israel.

    Apartheid is going nowhere for Israelis, unless Israelis like having rockets fired at them and little kids throwing rocks at them all the time. Doesn't seem like a pleasant life to me.

    The bold is the most funniest ? you have ever said LOL their is no adaption living under islam especially when islam teaches that jews are pigs. WE ARE not in the world of 700 years ago the jews of today are not going to accept living under the submission of islam especially sunni islam and paying jizah.

    So your answer to my question is we should just let the jews be killed, you have no solution . south africa is not israel the situation and cultures are vastly different. The jews will be slaughtered if what you want happens therefore israel would be in the right to use any means to defend itself. it is no longer palestinian land they lost the wars and don't have the power to take it back it's israel now. The palestinians and the arabs are going to have to learn to except that the sooner they do the closer we will be to peace.

    israelis don't have a pleasant life but at least they have a life and the state of war is actually not that bad for israel because it give them an excuse to take palestinian land, you don't really know ? about islam they cannot accept peace with israel.

    Rush Limbaugh is that you? Sean Hannity, is that you?

    Why are you acting like all the Palestinians are Muslim, there are many Christian and secular Palestinians living in that land. Up to 35% of all Palestinians in the area are Christian according to some sources. You do realize Christianity, your religion, was founded around Bethlehem, Palestinian territory, right?

    And if Israel was to give up apartheid and Palestinians then try to slaughter the Israelis, then Israel would use its military as they always do. And the Jews can't be slaughtered off, stop acting like they are a weak people, the Jews there have way bigger weapons, armor, and fighting capability compared to the Arabs. The Arabs can't beat the Jews for ? , it's obvious and one reason why your paranoid fears of "Jews being slaughtered" is overblown. The Israelis there could build fortified communities and in fact they already do, stop this nonsense of you stating the Jews will be slaughtered off if apartheid there ends. Maybe Israel should enter a dictatorship, so no one votes? Maybe that would keep the Jewish supremacy you want in Israel, but the apartheid, stealing of water/land, and kicking Palestinians and Arabs out of there homes is EVIL and immoral, and must be stopped.

    Again, stop your nonsensical fear of Jews being slaughtered, they have the weapons and armor to a level that it will never happen.

    there are palestinians christians but so the ? what they don't control their islamic neigorbors who would slaughter every jew in israel if given the chance and i asked you what you would do about the jews.

    the jews can't be slaughtered off because of the system they run in which muslims are kept out of the ranks of power. what you are asking for is the removal of that system. If they integrate muslims are going to be in the military and every area of the state it's too high a risk for a nation that was founded on giving the jewish people a homeland to take. Pay attention to what i am saying and stop acting stupid HOW LONG do you think these fortified communities can hold out if the government decides to integrate?? a few decades at most

    the only thing we agree on is that israel should stop the settlements but for israel to survive they cannot just make the arab muslims in israel full citizens.

    Your post is off on several points: Arabs and Muslims are already serving in Israel's military and Muslims actually hold several positions in Israeli govt already (very small positions I'll admit that). So you're wrong there.

    As far as the fortified communities Israel's Jews can and already are building, they can survive almost any onslaught, Israel's military usually supports the fortified and illegal settlements all over that place. Israeli soldiers are known to walk around the fortified communities as well and they can hold their own, you're making the Jews of Israel look like a bunch of weaklings who can't handle a gun. I see you also aren't familiar with the tons of checkpoints that make it very difficult for Palestinians to even enter Jewish neighborhoods in Israel. Learn some more about Israel's security measures before you say something like this, Israeli Jews will be fine if it ends its terrorist creating apartheid system
  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @kingblaze84

    learn to read i said they are kept out of positions of power there are a few arab muslims in the IDf but they are not in any important positions, so no i am not wrong. Actually read my previous post and put it together with the one before it before you respond. your reading comprehension is horrible you addressed nothing in my post

    let me try to explain this to you again. If america had members of isis, boko haram or hamas walking around and gave them citizenship and excess to all the freedoms of everyone else what do you think would happen??? we would be betrayed and american citizens killed. That is what you propose for israel except it would be even worse for them they know this and that is why they keep an apartheid system

    all those check points and idf patrols would gone OR THEYE would prove ineffective because the enemy would already be in israel your can't be this ? dense. Not to mention the state is of israel is based on judaism allowing muslims full citizenship and national voting right risk giving them the power to erase the jewish character of the state.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2014
    zombie wrote: »
    @kingblaze84

    learn to read i said they are kept out of positions of power there are a few arab muslims in the IDf but they are not in any important positions, so no i am not wrong. Actually read my previous post and put it together with the one before it before you respond. your reading comprehension is horrible you addressed nothing in my post

    let me try to explain this to you again. If america had members of isis, boko haram or hamas walking around and gave them citizenship and excess to all the freedoms of everyone else what do you think would happen??? we would be betrayed and american citizens killed. That is what you propose for israel except it would be even worse for them they know this and that is why they keep an apartheid system

    all those check points and idf patrols would gone OR THEYE would prove ineffective because the enemy would already be in israel your can't be this ? dense. Not to mention the state is of israel is based on judaism allowing muslims full citizenship and national voting right risk giving them the power to erase the jewish character of the state.

    I did address your post, I said Arabs and Muslims do hold positions of power in Israeli govt, military and the Knesset itself. Obviously, the Palestinians don't have the power to actually end the apartheid but if you're that paranoid the Jews there would be killed off if apartheid ends because Palestinians hate them so much, you're again ignoring history. Jews had close ties to MANY Muslims in the Middle East for a long time, not a great relationship but Jews thrived in many parts of the Middle East before the creation of Israel. Hamas does hate Israel but AGAIN, so does half the world basically. Israel can end a lot of that hatred by stopping the BS it's doing over there and listening to the demands of the Arab world, and Americans can end a lot of the hate against it by not aiding directly the apartheid.

    In the end, you're just being paranoid and again ignoring the history of Jewish relations in the Middle East before modern Israel. Research it and see for yourself that relations btw Muslims and Jews were much better before the state of Israel created close to a million refugees in 1948 alone.

    If Israel continues the status quo, then Christians and Jews will continue having a horrible life in the region. Take your pick.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2014
    I'm not religious and I find it humorous the world's 3 most religious peoples are all killing each other and acting like barbarians around each other more then any secular nations that I can think of. It's been a long time since any secular nation like China or Sweden has been involved in the barbarian nonsense that these 3 religious groups are acting a fool about.

    Out of topic but I had to say it
  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zombie wrote: »
    @kingblaze84

    learn to read i said they are kept out of positions of power there are a few arab muslims in the IDf but they are not in any important positions, so no i am not wrong. Actually read my previous post and put it together with the one before it before you respond. your reading comprehension is horrible you addressed nothing in my post

    let me try to explain this to you again. If america had members of isis, boko haram or hamas walking around and gave them citizenship and excess to all the freedoms of everyone else what do you think would happen??? we would be betrayed and american citizens killed. That is what you propose for israel except it would be even worse for them they know this and that is why they keep an apartheid system

    all those check points and idf patrols would gone OR THEYE would prove ineffective because the enemy would already be in israel your can't be this ? dense. Not to mention the state is of israel is based on judaism allowing muslims full citizenship and national voting right risk giving them the power to erase the jewish character of the state.

    I did address your post, I said Arabs and Muslims do hold positions of power in Israeli govt, military and the Knesset itself. Obviously, the Palestinians don't have the power to actually end the apartheid but if you're that paranoid the Jews there would be killed off if apartheid ends because Palestinians hate them so much, you're again ignoring history. Jews had close ties to MANY Muslims in the Middle East for a long time, not a great relationship but Jews thrived in many parts of the Middle East before the creation of Israel. Hamas does hate Israel but AGAIN, so does half the world basically. Israel can end a lot of that hatred by stopping the BS it's doing over there and listening to the demands of the Arab world, and Americans can end a lot of the hate against it by not aiding directly the apartheid.

    In the end, you're just being paranoid and again ignoring the history of Jewish relations in the Middle East before modern Israel. Research it and see for yourself that relations btw Muslims and Jews were much better before the state of Israel created close to a million refugees in 1948 alone.

    If Israel continues the status quo, then Christians and Jews will continue having a horrible life in the region. Take your pick.

    the bolded is not true the arabs serve lowly positions of little influence in israel and connection that the jews had while living under islamic rule have been broken you yourself say israel is the second most hated nation in the world you think that hate is just going to evaporate??? don't be so naive it's too late for that. In this century jewish people will not be willing to live under sunni rule and oppression IN ISLAM only when non-muslims are subduded can they be treated with even the lightest respect jews don't want to live as dhimmi any more

    the demands of the arab world??? they want israel destroyed. This is some of the history of jews in the middle east
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1066_Granada_massacre
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_Fez_massacre
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

    for centuries jews and christians live at the mercy of muslim rulers ? that it's 2014 no more let the ? arabs those days are over
  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    Regarding Saudi Arabia and the Middle East in general, my attitude is that America should generally butt out of the problems of the Middle East, at least for awhile. This is my general stance.
    which is fine. but even if Saudi Arabia is filled with fundamentalist-loving ? (let's agree that this is true), there is still a big, legitimate difference between it and ISIS. maybe they're BOTH a problem on some level, hey, but ISIS is really the more immediate, outrageous threat.
    As far as America's reputation in the Middle East, I admit the Israeli issues would not solve all of the problems America has in the region. But it would get rid of most of the problems the region has with us because as the king of Jordan said and as Osama Bin Laden said himself, the American ties to Israel brings negativity because Israel is blatant with its apartheid and America gives money and aid to Israel.
    the king of Jordan may have a point. UBL, however, can get ? , since he was also furiously offended by things like "Americans defending SA during the Gulf War."
    And what do you mean some of the Crusades didn't involve the Middle East?
    Northern Crusades: taking the fight against pagans in northern Europe
    Fourth Crusade: wherein the fight against Muslims in Jerusalem becomes "eh, let's just sack Orthodox Christian Constantinople"
    Albigensian Crusade: taking the fight to presumably heretical Christians in France (and giving us the saying, "? them all, for the Lord knoweth them that are His")

  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2014
    zombie wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    @kingblaze84

    learn to read i said they are kept out of positions of power there are a few arab muslims in the IDf but they are not in any important positions, so no i am not wrong. Actually read my previous post and put it together with the one before it before you respond. your reading comprehension is horrible you addressed nothing in my post

    let me try to explain this to you again. If america had members of isis, boko haram or hamas walking around and gave them citizenship and excess to all the freedoms of everyone else what do you think would happen??? we would be betrayed and american citizens killed. That is what you propose for israel except it would be even worse for them they know this and that is why they keep an apartheid system

    all those check points and idf patrols would gone OR THEYE would prove ineffective because the enemy would already be in israel your can't be this ? dense. Not to mention the state is of israel is based on judaism allowing muslims full citizenship and national voting right risk giving them the power to erase the jewish character of the state.

    I did address your post, I said Arabs and Muslims do hold positions of power in Israeli govt, military and the Knesset itself. Obviously, the Palestinians don't have the power to actually end the apartheid but if you're that paranoid the Jews there would be killed off if apartheid ends because Palestinians hate them so much, you're again ignoring history. Jews had close ties to MANY Muslims in the Middle East for a long time, not a great relationship but Jews thrived in many parts of the Middle East before the creation of Israel. Hamas does hate Israel but AGAIN, so does half the world basically. Israel can end a lot of that hatred by stopping the BS it's doing over there and listening to the demands of the Arab world, and Americans can end a lot of the hate against it by not aiding directly the apartheid.

    In the end, you're just being paranoid and again ignoring the history of Jewish relations in the Middle East before modern Israel. Research it and see for yourself that relations btw Muslims and Jews were much better before the state of Israel created close to a million refugees in 1948 alone.

    If Israel continues the status quo, then Christians and Jews will continue having a horrible life in the region. Take your pick.

    the bolded is not true the arabs serve lowly positions of little influence in israel and connection that the jews had while living under islamic rule have been broken you yourself say israel is the second most hated nation in the world you think that hate is just going to evaporate??? don't be so naive it's too late for that. In this century jewish people will not be willing to live under sunni rule and oppression IN ISLAM only when non-muslims are subduded can they be treated with even the lightest respect jews don't want to live as dhimmi any more

    the demands of the arab world??? they want israel destroyed. This is some of the history of jews in the middle east
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1066_Granada_massacre
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_Fez_massacre
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

    for centuries jews and christians live at the mercy of muslim rulers ? that it's 2014 no more let the ? arabs those days are over

    Ok but thanks for noting that's only SOME of the history btw Jews and Muslims there. Think about it, Jews are a minority and and managed to build a long history there and survive, being outnumbered 1000-1. For them to survive like that in the region and be in large numbers before modern Israel was created means something.

    As far as you believing Jews must keep their apartheid (which sounds as ridiculous as anything I've ever heard before), it's not helping America's reputation to help and support them doing this. If Israel wants to keep its system, fine but I don't want American taxpayer dollars directly supporting this nonsense. You support an evil policy because of irrational fears of Israel using nuclear weapons, but you foolishly state that you are NOT willing to take out Israeli leadership if your fears are so justified.

    IF ISRAEL is so trigger happy to want to use nuclear weapons if it starts losing wars, then you should be the first one advocating that Israel is a threat to world peace, and support policies that change that situation. But you support apartheid, you having no shame, so I don't expect you to take the right approach to this situation at all.

    And if Israel is so paranoid about Muslim rule in the region, then maybe the Israelis there should move out or learn to live with consequences of being in a region 1000-1. If I was to force myself into your home, take your property and force people in your home to live by my rules because my family owned your home 50-100 years ago, you would think I'm nuts. But you support policies that act just like this. You're a hypocrite of the finest order.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2014
    janklow wrote: »
    Regarding Saudi Arabia and the Middle East in general, my attitude is that America should generally butt out of the problems of the Middle East, at least for awhile. This is my general stance.
    which is fine. but even if Saudi Arabia is filled with fundamentalist-loving ? (let's agree that this is true), there is still a big, legitimate difference between it and ISIS. maybe they're BOTH a problem on some level, hey, but ISIS is really the more immediate, outrageous threat.
    As far as America's reputation in the Middle East, I admit the Israeli issues would not solve all of the problems America has in the region. But it would get rid of most of the problems the region has with us because as the king of Jordan said and as Osama Bin Laden said himself, the American ties to Israel brings negativity because Israel is blatant with its apartheid and America gives money and aid to Israel.
    the king of Jordan may have a point. UBL, however, can get ? , since he was also furiously offended by things like "Americans defending SA during the Gulf War."
    And what do you mean some of the Crusades didn't involve the Middle East?
    Northern Crusades: taking the fight against pagans in northern Europe
    Fourth Crusade: wherein the fight against Muslims in Jerusalem becomes "eh, let's just sack Orthodox Christian Constantinople"
    Albigensian Crusade: taking the fight to presumably heretical Christians in France (and giving us the saying, "? them all, for the Lord knoweth them that are His")

    We agree ISIS is a bigger threat to the region for now then Saudi Arabia, agreed. At least Saudi Arabia isn't forcing out Kurds and others from their homes (directly).

    Osama and Al-Qaeda went too far of course but their grievances shouldn't be ignored, especially when so many around the world share their ideology and opinions. The King of Jordan and other moderate rulers of the region generally say that America can do more to improve its reputation in the region and I think we can agree it can. This will go a long way.

    And yes I know about some of those times when Christians were killing each other and killing off Jews for their treasures, didn't know some of those other things though, interesting stuff I gotta read up on that tonight.
  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2014
    zombie wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    @kingblaze84

    learn to read i said they are kept out of positions of power there are a few arab muslims in the IDf but they are not in any important positions, so no i am not wrong. Actually read my previous post and put it together with the one before it before you respond. your reading comprehension is horrible you addressed nothing in my post

    let me try to explain this to you again. If america had members of isis, boko haram or hamas walking around and gave them citizenship and excess to all the freedoms of everyone else what do you think would happen??? we would be betrayed and american citizens killed. That is what you propose for israel except it would be even worse for them they know this and that is why they keep an apartheid system

    all those check points and idf patrols would gone OR THEYE would prove ineffective because the enemy would already be in israel your can't be this ? dense. Not to mention the state is of israel is based on judaism allowing muslims full citizenship and national voting right risk giving them the power to erase the jewish character of the state.

    I did address your post, I said Arabs and Muslims do hold positions of power in Israeli govt, military and the Knesset itself. Obviously, the Palestinians don't have the power to actually end the apartheid but if you're that paranoid the Jews there would be killed off if apartheid ends because Palestinians hate them so much, you're again ignoring history. Jews had close ties to MANY Muslims in the Middle East for a long time, not a great relationship but Jews thrived in many parts of the Middle East before the creation of Israel. Hamas does hate Israel but AGAIN, so does half the world basically. Israel can end a lot of that hatred by stopping the BS it's doing over there and listening to the demands of the Arab world, and Americans can end a lot of the hate against it by not aiding directly the apartheid.

    In the end, you're just being paranoid and again ignoring the history of Jewish relations in the Middle East before modern Israel. Research it and see for yourself that relations btw Muslims and Jews were much better before the state of Israel created close to a million refugees in 1948 alone.

    If Israel continues the status quo, then Christians and Jews will continue having a horrible life in the region. Take your pick.

    the bolded is not true the arabs serve lowly positions of little influence in israel and connection that the jews had while living under islamic rule have been broken you yourself say israel is the second most hated nation in the world you think that hate is just going to evaporate??? don't be so naive it's too late for that. In this century jewish people will not be willing to live under sunni rule and oppression IN ISLAM only when non-muslims are subduded can they be treated with even the lightest respect jews don't want to live as dhimmi any more

    the demands of the arab world??? they want israel destroyed. This is some of the history of jews in the middle east
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1066_Granada_massacre
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_Fez_massacre
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

    for centuries jews and christians live at the mercy of muslim rulers ? that it's 2014 no more let the ? arabs those days are over

    Ok but thanks for noting that's only SOME of the history btw Jews and Muslims there. Think about it, Jews are a minority and and managed to build a long history there and survive, being outnumbered 1000-1. For them to survive like that in the region and be in large numbers before Israel was created means something.

    As far as you believing Jews must keep their apartheid (which sounds as ridiculous as anything I've ever heard before), it's not helping America's reputation to help and support them doing this. If Israel wants to keep its system, fine but I don't want American taxpayer dollars directly supporting this nonsense. You support an evil policy because of irrational fears of Israel using nuclear weapons, but you foolishly state that you are NOT willing to take out Israeli leadership if your fears are so justified.

    IF ISRAEL is so trigger happy to want to use nuclear weapons if it starts losing wars, then you should be the first one advocating that Israel is a threat to world peace, and support policies that change that situation. But you support apartheid, you having no shame, so I don't expect you to take the right approach to this situation at all.

    survival under oppression is not something jews are willing to accept living at the whim of muslims is not something jews are willing to accept. it's not the year 1222 anymore even if muslims still think it is. I don't think america should give a ? how the arab worlds sees us until they stop acting like savages you keep harping on america being hated and to me that's a non-factor, because at this point they are going to hate no matter what. I support apartheid in israel because without it the state cannot survive.

    israel does not even need to use nuclear bombs to destroy their the arabs the regular army should do just fine but even if they did it would be in self defense israel is literally surrounded by the enemy what the ? do you expect them to do??? if they are invaded. I don't want that to happen. i would prefer the arabs learn to be civilized , it's not on israel to change it's up to the arabs, the power to bring about peace in the middle east is in the hands of the arabs if israel did not want peace they would have took gaza and the west bank by now.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2014
    zombie wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    @kingblaze84

    learn to read i said they are kept out of positions of power there are a few arab muslims in the IDf but they are not in any important positions, so no i am not wrong. Actually read my previous post and put it together with the one before it before you respond. your reading comprehension is horrible you addressed nothing in my post

    let me try to explain this to you again. If america had members of isis, boko haram or hamas walking around and gave them citizenship and excess to all the freedoms of everyone else what do you think would happen??? we would be betrayed and american citizens killed. That is what you propose for israel except it would be even worse for them they know this and that is why they keep an apartheid system

    all those check points and idf patrols would gone OR THEYE would prove ineffective because the enemy would already be in israel your can't be this ? dense. Not to mention the state is of israel is based on judaism allowing muslims full citizenship and national voting right risk giving them the power to erase the jewish character of the state.

    I did address your post, I said Arabs and Muslims do hold positions of power in Israeli govt, military and the Knesset itself. Obviously, the Palestinians don't have the power to actually end the apartheid but if you're that paranoid the Jews there would be killed off if apartheid ends because Palestinians hate them so much, you're again ignoring history. Jews had close ties to MANY Muslims in the Middle East for a long time, not a great relationship but Jews thrived in many parts of the Middle East before the creation of Israel. Hamas does hate Israel but AGAIN, so does half the world basically. Israel can end a lot of that hatred by stopping the BS it's doing over there and listening to the demands of the Arab world, and Americans can end a lot of the hate against it by not aiding directly the apartheid.

    In the end, you're just being paranoid and again ignoring the history of Jewish relations in the Middle East before modern Israel. Research it and see for yourself that relations btw Muslims and Jews were much better before the state of Israel created close to a million refugees in 1948 alone.

    If Israel continues the status quo, then Christians and Jews will continue having a horrible life in the region. Take your pick.

    the bolded is not true the arabs serve lowly positions of little influence in israel and connection that the jews had while living under islamic rule have been broken you yourself say israel is the second most hated nation in the world you think that hate is just going to evaporate??? don't be so naive it's too late for that. In this century jewish people will not be willing to live under sunni rule and oppression IN ISLAM only when non-muslims are subduded can they be treated with even the lightest respect jews don't want to live as dhimmi any more

    the demands of the arab world??? they want israel destroyed. This is some of the history of jews in the middle east
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1066_Granada_massacre
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_Fez_massacre
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

    for centuries jews and christians live at the mercy of muslim rulers ? that it's 2014 no more let the ? arabs those days are over

    Ok but thanks for noting that's only SOME of the history btw Jews and Muslims there. Think about it, Jews are a minority and and managed to build a long history there and survive, being outnumbered 1000-1. For them to survive like that in the region and be in large numbers before Israel was created means something.

    As far as you believing Jews must keep their apartheid (which sounds as ridiculous as anything I've ever heard before), it's not helping America's reputation to help and support them doing this. If Israel wants to keep its system, fine but I don't want American taxpayer dollars directly supporting this nonsense. You support an evil policy because of irrational fears of Israel using nuclear weapons, but you foolishly state that you are NOT willing to take out Israeli leadership if your fears are so justified.

    IF ISRAEL is so trigger happy to want to use nuclear weapons if it starts losing wars, then you should be the first one advocating that Israel is a threat to world peace, and support policies that change that situation. But you support apartheid, you having no shame, so I don't expect you to take the right approach to this situation at all.

    survival under oppression is not something jews are willing to accept living at the whim of muslims is not something jews are willing to accept. it's not the year 1222 anymore even if muslims still think it is. I don't think america should give a ? how the arab worlds sees us until they stop acting like savages you keep harping on america being hated and to me that's a non-factor, because at this point they are going to hate no matter what. I support apartheid in israel because without it the state cannot survive.

    israel does not even need to use nuclear bombs to destroy their the arabs the regular army should do just fine but even if they did it would be in self defense israel is literally surrounded by the enemy what the ? do you expect them to do??? if they are invaded. I don't want that to happen. i would prefer the arabs learn to be civilized , it's not on israel to change it's up to the arabs, the power to bring about peace in the middle east is in the hands of the arabs if israel did not want peace they would have took gaza and the west bank by now.

    Israel already has Gaza and the West Bank though lol, they control their air space and water and their borders. And they are slowly taking more and more of it day by day, and you have to be blind to think America can't improve its reputation if it cuts off aid to Israel. You heard what the CIA officer said, it's simple logic, Arabs outnumber Israel 1000-1, Israel can't make them bow to their every demand. Even if the Arabs and Muslims there to you are "savages", then Israel acting like a vampire will only escalate the situation. I dislike religious fanatics from any religion, but Israelis are using the Torah to commit war crimes with American taxpayer support, you don't seem to care about America's reputation at all.

    As I said, I'll let Israel do what it wants in that region as long as AMERICAN taxpayer dollars and political support don't go to that corrupt and immoral govt. For you to support apartheid is hilarious, you sound like a White cracka from 1800s Rhodesia, Belgium Congo or South Africa.
  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zombie wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    @kingblaze84

    learn to read i said they are kept out of positions of power there are a few arab muslims in the IDf but they are not in any important positions, so no i am not wrong. Actually read my previous post and put it together with the one before it before you respond. your reading comprehension is horrible you addressed nothing in my post

    let me try to explain this to you again. If america had members of isis, boko haram or hamas walking around and gave them citizenship and excess to all the freedoms of everyone else what do you think would happen??? we would be betrayed and american citizens killed. That is what you propose for israel except it would be even worse for them they know this and that is why they keep an apartheid system

    all those check points and idf patrols would gone OR THEYE would prove ineffective because the enemy would already be in israel your can't be this ? dense. Not to mention the state is of israel is based on judaism allowing muslims full citizenship and national voting right risk giving them the power to erase the jewish character of the state.

    I did address your post, I said Arabs and Muslims do hold positions of power in Israeli govt, military and the Knesset itself. Obviously, the Palestinians don't have the power to actually end the apartheid but if you're that paranoid the Jews there would be killed off if apartheid ends because Palestinians hate them so much, you're again ignoring history. Jews had close ties to MANY Muslims in the Middle East for a long time, not a great relationship but Jews thrived in many parts of the Middle East before the creation of Israel. Hamas does hate Israel but AGAIN, so does half the world basically. Israel can end a lot of that hatred by stopping the BS it's doing over there and listening to the demands of the Arab world, and Americans can end a lot of the hate against it by not aiding directly the apartheid.

    In the end, you're just being paranoid and again ignoring the history of Jewish relations in the Middle East before modern Israel. Research it and see for yourself that relations btw Muslims and Jews were much better before the state of Israel created close to a million refugees in 1948 alone.

    If Israel continues the status quo, then Christians and Jews will continue having a horrible life in the region. Take your pick.

    the bolded is not true the arabs serve lowly positions of little influence in israel and connection that the jews had while living under islamic rule have been broken you yourself say israel is the second most hated nation in the world you think that hate is just going to evaporate??? don't be so naive it's too late for that. In this century jewish people will not be willing to live under sunni rule and oppression IN ISLAM only when non-muslims are subduded can they be treated with even the lightest respect jews don't want to live as dhimmi any more

    the demands of the arab world??? they want israel destroyed. This is some of the history of jews in the middle east
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1066_Granada_massacre
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_Fez_massacre
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

    for centuries jews and christians live at the mercy of muslim rulers ? that it's 2014 no more let the ? arabs those days are over

    Ok but thanks for noting that's only SOME of the history btw Jews and Muslims there. Think about it, Jews are a minority and and managed to build a long history there and survive, being outnumbered 1000-1. For them to survive like that in the region and be in large numbers before Israel was created means something.

    As far as you believing Jews must keep their apartheid (which sounds as ridiculous as anything I've ever heard before), it's not helping America's reputation to help and support them doing this. If Israel wants to keep its system, fine but I don't want American taxpayer dollars directly supporting this nonsense. You support an evil policy because of irrational fears of Israel using nuclear weapons, but you foolishly state that you are NOT willing to take out Israeli leadership if your fears are so justified.

    IF ISRAEL is so trigger happy to want to use nuclear weapons if it starts losing wars, then you should be the first one advocating that Israel is a threat to world peace, and support policies that change that situation. But you support apartheid, you having no shame, so I don't expect you to take the right approach to this situation at all.

    survival under oppression is not something jews are willing to accept living at the whim of muslims is not something jews are willing to accept. it's not the year 1222 anymore even if muslims still think it is. I don't think america should give a ? how the arab worlds sees us until they stop acting like savages you keep harping on america being hated and to me that's a non-factor, because at this point they are going to hate no matter what. I support apartheid in israel because without it the state cannot survive.

    israel does not even need to use nuclear bombs to destroy their the arabs the regular army should do just fine but even if they did it would be in self defense israel is literally surrounded by the enemy what the ? do you expect them to do??? if they are invaded. I don't want that to happen. i would prefer the arabs learn to be civilized , it's not on israel to change it's up to the arabs, the power to bring about peace in the middle east is in the hands of the arabs if israel did not want peace they would have took gaza and the west bank by now.

    Israel already has Gaza and the West Bank though lol, they control their air space and water and their borders. And they are slowly taking more and more of it day by day, and you have to be blind to think America can't improve its reputation if it cuts off aid to Israel. You heard what the CIA officer said, it's simple logic, Arabs outnumber Israel 1000-1, Israel can't make them bow to their every demand. Even if the Arabs and Muslims there to you are "savages", then Israel acting like a vampire will only escalate the situation. I dislike religious fanatics from any religion, but Israelis are using the Torah to commit war crimes with American taxpayer support, you don't seem to care about America's reputation at all.

    As I said, I'll let Israel do what it wants in that region as long as AMERICAN taxpayer dollars and political support don't go to that corrupt and immoral govt. For you to support apartheid is hilarious, you sound like a White cracka from 1800s Rhodesia, Belgium Congo or South Africa.

    israel does not have the west bank or gaza they are not part of israel they exist in kind of a gray zone due the the violent acts of their inhabits. If the inhabitants of gaze stop trying to fight israel then i would be on their side until then ? them.

    I don't care too improve the american reputation amongst the arabs, because like i keep telling you at this point it cannot be improved by kissing their ass. Until they stop the fuckery we should not care what they think. The apartheid practiced in israel is literally a matter of survival for them not the continuation of race based supremacy once again you use horrible examples.

    israel should not be bowed to but it has a right to exist and do what it needs to keep existing
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2014
    zombie wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    @kingblaze84

    learn to read i said they are kept out of positions of power there are a few arab muslims in the IDf but they are not in any important positions, so no i am not wrong. Actually read my previous post and put it together with the one before it before you respond. your reading comprehension is horrible you addressed nothing in my post

    let me try to explain this to you again. If america had members of isis, boko haram or hamas walking around and gave them citizenship and excess to all the freedoms of everyone else what do you think would happen??? we would be betrayed and american citizens killed. That is what you propose for israel except it would be even worse for them they know this and that is why they keep an apartheid system

    all those check points and idf patrols would gone OR THEYE would prove ineffective because the enemy would already be in israel your can't be this ? dense. Not to mention the state is of israel is based on judaism allowing muslims full citizenship and national voting right risk giving them the power to erase the jewish character of the state.

    I did address your post, I said Arabs and Muslims do hold positions of power in Israeli govt, military and the Knesset itself. Obviously, the Palestinians don't have the power to actually end the apartheid but if you're that paranoid the Jews there would be killed off if apartheid ends because Palestinians hate them so much, you're again ignoring history. Jews had close ties to MANY Muslims in the Middle East for a long time, not a great relationship but Jews thrived in many parts of the Middle East before the creation of Israel. Hamas does hate Israel but AGAIN, so does half the world basically. Israel can end a lot of that hatred by stopping the BS it's doing over there and listening to the demands of the Arab world, and Americans can end a lot of the hate against it by not aiding directly the apartheid.

    In the end, you're just being paranoid and again ignoring the history of Jewish relations in the Middle East before modern Israel. Research it and see for yourself that relations btw Muslims and Jews were much better before the state of Israel created close to a million refugees in 1948 alone.

    If Israel continues the status quo, then Christians and Jews will continue having a horrible life in the region. Take your pick.

    the bolded is not true the arabs serve lowly positions of little influence in israel and connection that the jews had while living under islamic rule have been broken you yourself say israel is the second most hated nation in the world you think that hate is just going to evaporate??? don't be so naive it's too late for that. In this century jewish people will not be willing to live under sunni rule and oppression IN ISLAM only when non-muslims are subduded can they be treated with even the lightest respect jews don't want to live as dhimmi any more

    the demands of the arab world??? they want israel destroyed. This is some of the history of jews in the middle east
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1066_Granada_massacre
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_Fez_massacre
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

    for centuries jews and christians live at the mercy of muslim rulers ? that it's 2014 no more let the ? arabs those days are over

    Ok but thanks for noting that's only SOME of the history btw Jews and Muslims there. Think about it, Jews are a minority and and managed to build a long history there and survive, being outnumbered 1000-1. For them to survive like that in the region and be in large numbers before Israel was created means something.

    As far as you believing Jews must keep their apartheid (which sounds as ridiculous as anything I've ever heard before), it's not helping America's reputation to help and support them doing this. If Israel wants to keep its system, fine but I don't want American taxpayer dollars directly supporting this nonsense. You support an evil policy because of irrational fears of Israel using nuclear weapons, but you foolishly state that you are NOT willing to take out Israeli leadership if your fears are so justified.

    IF ISRAEL is so trigger happy to want to use nuclear weapons if it starts losing wars, then you should be the first one advocating that Israel is a threat to world peace, and support policies that change that situation. But you support apartheid, you having no shame, so I don't expect you to take the right approach to this situation at all.

    survival under oppression is not something jews are willing to accept living at the whim of muslims is not something jews are willing to accept. it's not the year 1222 anymore even if muslims still think it is. I don't think america should give a ? how the arab worlds sees us until they stop acting like savages you keep harping on america being hated and to me that's a non-factor, because at this point they are going to hate no matter what. I support apartheid in israel because without it the state cannot survive.

    israel does not even need to use nuclear bombs to destroy their the arabs the regular army should do just fine but even if they did it would be in self defense israel is literally surrounded by the enemy what the ? do you expect them to do??? if they are invaded. I don't want that to happen. i would prefer the arabs learn to be civilized , it's not on israel to change it's up to the arabs, the power to bring about peace in the middle east is in the hands of the arabs if israel did not want peace they would have took gaza and the west bank by now.

    Israel already has Gaza and the West Bank though lol, they control their air space and water and their borders. And they are slowly taking more and more of it day by day, and you have to be blind to think America can't improve its reputation if it cuts off aid to Israel. You heard what the CIA officer said, it's simple logic, Arabs outnumber Israel 1000-1, Israel can't make them bow to their every demand. Even if the Arabs and Muslims there to you are "savages", then Israel acting like a vampire will only escalate the situation. I dislike religious fanatics from any religion, but Israelis are using the Torah to commit war crimes with American taxpayer support, you don't seem to care about America's reputation at all.

    As I said, I'll let Israel do what it wants in that region as long as AMERICAN taxpayer dollars and political support don't go to that corrupt and immoral govt. For you to support apartheid is hilarious, you sound like a White cracka from 1800s Rhodesia, Belgium Congo or South Africa.

    israel does not have the west bank or gaza they are not part of israel they exist in kind of a gray zone due the the violent acts of their inhabits. If the inhabitants of gaze stop trying to fight israel then i would be on their side until then ? them.

    I don't care too improve the american reputation amongst the arabs, because like i keep telling you at this point it cannot be improved by kissing their ass. Until they stop the fuckery we should not care what they think. The apartheid practiced in israel is literally a matter of survival for them not the continuation of race based supremacy once again you use horrible examples.

    israel should not be bowed to but it has a right to exist and do what it needs to keep existing

    Do you support America giving financial support to this apartheid?? You think supporting apartheid makes America look good in Iraq, as they fight ISIS.....? Or will you admit that in the region, America looks not much better then ISIS because of this....?
  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    Osama and Al-Qaeda went too far of course but their grievances shouldn't be ignored, especially when so many around the world share their ideology and opinions.
    honestly? i think UBL/al-Qaeda's behavior means their grievances CAN be ignored. they're not making sincere, legitimate arguments. the king of Jordan is US-friendly head of state and thus if HE says something, the US should take it into consideration.
    And yes I know about some of those times when Christians were killing each other and killing off Jews for their treasures, didn't know some of those other things though, interesting stuff I gotta read up on that tonight.
    the Crusades: turns out they weren't well-run