Iraqi troops suffer mass slaughter one mile from Baghdad: the general ISIS Chat thread
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kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »America fighting all these wars worldwide reminds me of Germany's last few years of the Third ? , and we all know how that ended up....
You have to be ? kidding me has anti-americanism finally rotted your sick brain. america technically speaking if it really wanted to could fight even more wars if the people wanted to, no one is bombing america nor are they in a position to do so.
who taught you history at hunter that ? failed you
LOL do you remember reading about the last few years of the Third ? ? It started LOSING its wars, just like America has been losing its wars. America isn't getting bombed the way ? Germany did in the 1940s but it's losing its wars in a similar fashion. Afghanistan is a disaster, we have power over Kabul and the Taliban own the rest of the nation.
We took out Gaddafi, and now anti-American jihadists are the ones running wild in Libya. In fact, to this day, American embassies are not allowed to open there, that's how strong the hate is against Americans there. And we all know how Iraq is turning out, a complete disaster that is slowly bankrupting America silly. America can fight more wars against 3rd world nations if it chooses, but notice it won't dare ? with a real powerful military, like Russia's. Russia is invading Ukraine RIGHT NOW, and despite the "protection deal" Ukraine signed with America, America ain't doing ? lol. And Americans in govt don't really want troops fighting ISIS head on, so don't get too arrogant over there. America isn't winning ANYTHING lately. NOTHING, except bankruptcy, inflation, and more enemies in the region.
America has not lost iraq when we departed things were under control it's the iraqi government that ? up and lost iraq. germany lost it's wars by invasion. it's not like there is actually anything worth holding onto in afghanistan anyway. america never went to war in libya and russia has traditionally had it's sphere of influence over ukraine so them taking parts of it makes perfect sense to me and ukraine is not part of nato so tuff ? for them ,who cares how much eneimes in the region we make they can't step on and american ant.
Stop with the bankruptcy myth please i went over this with you at least twice -
I really think you underestimate the level of power america has both on the battlefield and in economics. THE NATIONS that can ? with us either don't have a motivation to go to actual war with us or are so tied to us economically that they would only be hurting themselves it they destroyed us. @kingblaze84
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kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »America fighting all these wars worldwide reminds me of Germany's last few years of the Third ? , and we all know how that ended up....
You have to be ? kidding me has anti-americanism finally rotted your sick brain. america technically speaking if it really wanted to could fight even more wars if the people wanted to, no one is bombing america nor are they in a position to do so.
who taught you history at hunter that ? failed you
LOL do you remember reading about the last few years of the Third ? ? It started LOSING its wars, just like America has been losing its wars. America isn't getting bombed the way ? Germany did in the 1940s but it's losing its wars in a similar fashion. Afghanistan is a disaster, we have power over Kabul and the Taliban own the rest of the nation.
We took out Gaddafi, and now anti-American jihadists are the ones running wild in Libya. In fact, to this day, American embassies are not allowed to open there, that's how strong the hate is against Americans there. And we all know how Iraq is turning out, a complete disaster that is slowly bankrupting America silly. America can fight more wars against 3rd world nations if it chooses, but notice it won't dare ? with a real powerful military, like Russia's. Russia is invading Ukraine RIGHT NOW, and despite the "protection deal" Ukraine signed with America, America ain't doing ? lol. And Americans in govt don't really want troops fighting ISIS head on, so don't get too arrogant over there. America isn't winning ANYTHING lately. NOTHING, except bankruptcy, inflation, and more enemies in the region.
America has not lost iraq when we departed things were under control it's the iraqi government that ? up and lost iraq. germany lost it's wars by invasion. it's not like there is actually anything worth holding onto in afghanistan anyway. america never went to war in libya and russia has traditionally had it's sphere of influence over ukraine so them taking parts of it makes perfect sense to me and ukraine is not part of nato so tuff ? for them ,who cares how much eneimes in the region we make they can't step on and american ant.
Stop with the bankruptcy myth please i went over this with you at least twice
LOL things were under control when America left Iraq? That's a Fox News LIE, Americans were being shot and killed and blown up right up until the time American forces left in 2011. Things did calm down a bit but Americans were still being hunted down there in 2011. And the war in Iraq was lost because all the gains that were made have been...
**DRUM ROLL**
LOST lol. Of course, Americans are slowly being sent there again and it's only a matter of time before all out shooting takes place btw ISIS, Al-Qaeda and American troops, so what did America really gain from Iraq? As far as America in Libya, we took out Gaddafi, only to create ANOTHER terrorist safe haven. And Yemen is slowly becoming an anti-American terror safe haven too. See the pattern?
With Russia and Ukraine, yeah Ukraine isn't a NATO member but America and Ukraine still signed a protection deal that said Ukraine would be protected in the event Russia invades. WELLL.....Russia has invaded, and Americans ain't gonna do ? militarily, don't think Putin and the world haven't noticed. They know America is so tied down losing in the Middle East that it doesn't have the time to fight a REAL military power. And considering ISIS is now a real military power too, things are messier then ever. This is the losing I am talking about, the strategy is a complete failure so far. And with the bankruptcy mess, America is spending money it really doesn't have to wage this war. Or did you forget America is 17 trillion in debt? This money we're spending isn't being used to pay down the debt, that's for sure lol -
I really think you underestimate the level of power america has both on the battlefield and in economics. THE NATIONS that can ? with us either don't have a motivation to go to actual war with us or are so tied to us economically that they would only be hurting themselves it they destroyed us. @kingblaze84
I'm aware America still has lots of leverage around the world of course but that leverage isn't getting us anywhere in the Middle East, is it? Plus, America will not have the reserve currency forever, that 17 trillion in debt, if not put under control, will fall on America's lap pretty hard one day. According to most American economists I've read up on, it already is hurting America. Cost of living isn't getting any cheaper, word to the food and housing prices that go up every year. Spending money non stop on fighting never ending wars isn't helping America get anywhere. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »America fighting all these wars worldwide reminds me of Germany's last few years of the Third ? , and we all know how that ended up....
You have to be ? kidding me has anti-americanism finally rotted your sick brain. america technically speaking if it really wanted to could fight even more wars if the people wanted to, no one is bombing america nor are they in a position to do so.
who taught you history at hunter that ? failed you
LOL do you remember reading about the last few years of the Third ? ? It started LOSING its wars, just like America has been losing its wars. America isn't getting bombed the way ? Germany did in the 1940s but it's losing its wars in a similar fashion. Afghanistan is a disaster, we have power over Kabul and the Taliban own the rest of the nation.
We took out Gaddafi, and now anti-American jihadists are the ones running wild in Libya. In fact, to this day, American embassies are not allowed to open there, that's how strong the hate is against Americans there. And we all know how Iraq is turning out, a complete disaster that is slowly bankrupting America silly. America can fight more wars against 3rd world nations if it chooses, but notice it won't dare ? with a real powerful military, like Russia's. Russia is invading Ukraine RIGHT NOW, and despite the "protection deal" Ukraine signed with America, America ain't doing ? lol. And Americans in govt don't really want troops fighting ISIS head on, so don't get too arrogant over there. America isn't winning ANYTHING lately. NOTHING, except bankruptcy, inflation, and more enemies in the region.
America has not lost iraq when we departed things were under control it's the iraqi government that ? up and lost iraq. germany lost it's wars by invasion. it's not like there is actually anything worth holding onto in afghanistan anyway. america never went to war in libya and russia has traditionally had it's sphere of influence over ukraine so them taking parts of it makes perfect sense to me and ukraine is not part of nato so tuff ? for them ,who cares how much eneimes in the region we make they can't step on and american ant.
Stop with the bankruptcy myth please i went over this with you at least twice
LOL things were under control when America left Iraq? That's a Fox News LIE, Americans were being shot and killed and blown up right up until the time American forces left in 2011. Things did calm down a bit but Americans were still being hunted down there in 2011. And the war in Iraq was lost because all the gains that were made have been...
**DRUM ROLL**
LOST lol. Of course, Americans are slowly being sent there again and it's only a matter of time before all out shooting takes place btw ISIS, Al-Qaeda and American troops, so what did America really gain from Iraq? As far as America in Libya, we took out Gaddafi, only to create ANOTHER terrorist safe haven. And Yemen is slowly becoming an anti-American terror safe haven too. See the pattern?
With Russia and Ukraine, yeah Ukraine isn't a NATO member but America and Ukraine still signed a protection deal that said Ukraine would be protected in the event Russia invades. WELLL.....Russia has invaded, and Americans ain't gonna do ? militarily, don't think Putin and the world haven't noticed. They know America is so tied down losing in the Middle East that it doesn't have the time to fight a REAL military power. And considering ISIS is now a real military power too, things are messier then ever. This is the losing I am talking about, the strategy is a complete failure so far. And with the bankruptcy mess, America is spending money it really doesn't have to wage this war. Or did you forget America is 17 trillion in debt? This money we're spending isn't being used to pay down the debt, that's for sure lol
There are people being shot right now in america when i said things were under control i did not mean ? was perfect but generally speaking things were within limits. bands of crazy arabs were not chopping heads off.
THE GAINS WERE LOST BUT NOT BY US. The iraqi government ? up what we gave them. i see the pattern of america not engaging fully as we should and leaving too soon thats what i see had we never left iraq there would be no isis there today.
do you have the details of that protection deal??? i don't think europe wants us to deal with this situation i think they are more than willing to sacrafice ukraine. america will never fight russia never has except through proxy which we might be seeing shortly. Isis a real military power LOL THEY would have been washed the ? up long ago is there were fighting the american military.
You keep talking about that 17 trillion debt i am sick of it when i told you already most of that debt we owe to our ? self. You think if we were not at war that money would be spent on reducing the debt??? lol ? no.
i respond to you because your comment that america was like nazis or that we would end it like germany was total utter ? , we could lose ten more wars in the middle east and still not end up like germany. -
And the american dollar is trending up thank you very ? much
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And the american dollar is trending up thank you very ? much
Okay, let's see how the rest of this operation works out and affects the national debt. I predict it will increase it, like the last war did. And yes most American debt is owned by American corporations and individuals, but American debt holders are quite ruthless in America, word to all the people with eviction notices on their homes and apartments. Word to all the people who go bankrupt in the nation because American hospitals are brutal to those who go through accidents and worse. Americans mostly owning the debt means more cutbacks for states and federal limits on what it wants to spend money on and not spend money on (social security increases are at record lows compared to inflation).
Now I'll be honest and say, if the war in Iraq was beneficial in a way that we GAINED enough to pay down the debt or at least not have it be as expensive as it has been so far, I wouldn't talk about it as much. But the Saudi Arabians and Turks don't seem to be paying for this war, despite it being in their own region. So in the end this is all wasteful, it's digging a pit of more and more unified enemies. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »America fighting all these wars worldwide reminds me of Germany's last few years of the Third ? , and we all know how that ended up....
You have to be ? kidding me has anti-americanism finally rotted your sick brain. america technically speaking if it really wanted to could fight even more wars if the people wanted to, no one is bombing america nor are they in a position to do so.
who taught you history at hunter that ? failed you
LOL do you remember reading about the last few years of the Third ? ? It started LOSING its wars, just like America has been losing its wars. America isn't getting bombed the way ? Germany did in the 1940s but it's losing its wars in a similar fashion. Afghanistan is a disaster, we have power over Kabul and the Taliban own the rest of the nation.
We took out Gaddafi, and now anti-American jihadists are the ones running wild in Libya. In fact, to this day, American embassies are not allowed to open there, that's how strong the hate is against Americans there. And we all know how Iraq is turning out, a complete disaster that is slowly bankrupting America silly. America can fight more wars against 3rd world nations if it chooses, but notice it won't dare ? with a real powerful military, like Russia's. Russia is invading Ukraine RIGHT NOW, and despite the "protection deal" Ukraine signed with America, America ain't doing ? lol. And Americans in govt don't really want troops fighting ISIS head on, so don't get too arrogant over there. America isn't winning ANYTHING lately. NOTHING, except bankruptcy, inflation, and more enemies in the region.
America has not lost iraq when we departed things were under control it's the iraqi government that ? up and lost iraq. germany lost it's wars by invasion. it's not like there is actually anything worth holding onto in afghanistan anyway. america never went to war in libya and russia has traditionally had it's sphere of influence over ukraine so them taking parts of it makes perfect sense to me and ukraine is not part of nato so tuff ? for them ,who cares how much eneimes in the region we make they can't step on and american ant.
Stop with the bankruptcy myth please i went over this with you at least twice
LOL things were under control when America left Iraq? That's a Fox News LIE, Americans were being shot and killed and blown up right up until the time American forces left in 2011. Things did calm down a bit but Americans were still being hunted down there in 2011. And the war in Iraq was lost because all the gains that were made have been...
**DRUM ROLL**
LOST lol. Of course, Americans are slowly being sent there again and it's only a matter of time before all out shooting takes place btw ISIS, Al-Qaeda and American troops, so what did America really gain from Iraq? As far as America in Libya, we took out Gaddafi, only to create ANOTHER terrorist safe haven. And Yemen is slowly becoming an anti-American terror safe haven too. See the pattern?
With Russia and Ukraine, yeah Ukraine isn't a NATO member but America and Ukraine still signed a protection deal that said Ukraine would be protected in the event Russia invades. WELLL.....Russia has invaded, and Americans ain't gonna do ? militarily, don't think Putin and the world haven't noticed. They know America is so tied down losing in the Middle East that it doesn't have the time to fight a REAL military power. And considering ISIS is now a real military power too, things are messier then ever. This is the losing I am talking about, the strategy is a complete failure so far. And with the bankruptcy mess, America is spending money it really doesn't have to wage this war. Or did you forget America is 17 trillion in debt? This money we're spending isn't being used to pay down the debt, that's for sure lol
There are people being shot right now in america when i said things were under control i did not mean ? was perfect but generally speaking things were within limits. bands of crazy arabs were not chopping heads off.
THE GAINS WERE LOST BUT NOT BY US. The iraqi government ? up what we gave them. i see the pattern of america not engaging fully as we should and leaving too soon thats what i see had we never left iraq there would be no isis there today.
do you have the details of that protection deal??? i don't think europe wants us to deal with this situation i think they are more than willing to sacrafice ukraine. america will never fight russia never has except through proxy which we might be seeing shortly. Isis a real military power LOL THEY would have been washed the ? up long ago is there were fighting the american military.
You keep talking about that 17 trillion debt i am sick of it when i told you already most of that debt we owe to our ? self. You think if we were not at war that money would be spent on reducing the debt??? lol ? no.
i respond to you because your comment that america was like nazis or that we would end it like germany was total utter ? , we could lose ten more wars in the middle east and still not end up like germany.
I'll have to look up the details but I'm 100% sure America signed a military protection deal with Ukraine after it agreed to give up its nukes.
And I didn't say America WILL end up like Germany's Third ? , but the path it's on is very similar. Germany was at war with 6 or so nations during the 1940s: Czechoslovakia, Russia, France, England, America and parts of northern Africa. Eventually, Germany got tied down fighting all these wars and it was ? arrogance that put them down. They thought they could take on the world, and they couldn't. America is on a similar track because it is spending WAAAYY too much money fighting all these operations, and eventually it can break us because it leaves us open to other threats. You underestimate the anger America is creating with all these policies, it's spreading across the world AND many of these angry people are pledging allegiance to ISIS. Do you know how scary this could be? You saw what happened in Egypt 2 weeks ago? A huge terror attack killed a bunch of Egyptian soldiers, soldiers who get funding from America. That's in an America allied nation, with terrorists ALLIED with ISIS. And look what happened in Turkey the other day, ANOTHER America allied nation....Germany thought they were invincible until it was too late.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sq7M4z0wJK0
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US Military is considering sending the troops Obama sent to Iraq last week DIRECTLY into battle
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/13/us-military-considers-troops-iraq-general
The top-ranking officer in the American military said on Thursday that the US is actively considering the direct use of troops in the toughest upcoming fights against the Islamic State (Isis) in Iraq, less than a week after Barack Obama doubled troop levels there.
General Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, indicated to the House of Representatives armed services committee that the strength of Isis relative to the Iraqi army may be such that he would recommend abandoning Obama’s oft-repeated pledge against returning US ground troops to combat in Iraq.
With last week’s ordered US troop increases, designed to aid Iraqi campaign planning against Isis and to prop up 12 Iraqi and Kurdish brigades, US troop levels in Iraq will soon stand at 3,000.
Dempsey and Hagel were more definitive about a looming expansion of the US air war, which has delivered approximately 800 air strikes since August. Hagel told the panel that “the tempo and intensity of our coalition’s air campaign will accelerate” as the Iraqi forces “build strength” under renewed US mentorship.
Representative Walter Jones, a North Carolina Republican who opposes a new congressional war authorization, said Hagel’s rhetoric about Isis was reminiscent of 2002 arguments for invading Iraq.
“It looks like we’re going down the same road that Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told us that we had to do,” Jones said.
In a 17-minute audio recording released online on Thursday, which could not be independently verified, Isis leader Baghdadi cited Obama’s deployment orders for an additional 1,500 troops in Iraq last week as evidence that the US campaign was failing.
--Obama, one of the better liars I have seen in my time. Props.
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okay, let's get some quotes from AQ proper instead of the local branch now.kingblaze84 wrote: »As I predicted would happen, ISIS and Al-Qaeda have been united due to American air strikes targeting both groups in Iraq and Syria...
seriously, this is the worst, stupidest analogy you have ever used. it has the whole Godwin's Law thing AND the part where the comparison fails on multiple levels. jesus christ.kingblaze84 wrote: »America fighting all these wars worldwide reminds me of Germany's last few years of the Third ? , and we all know how that ended up....
no, it isn't losing its wars "in a similar fashion." Germany lost its wars to a worldwide alliance of the USSR and the US. is it not IMMEDIATELY apparent to you how this comparison is ? TRASH?kingblaze84 wrote: »America isn't getting bombed the way ? Germany did in the 1940s but it's losing its wars in a similar fashion.
wait, who are these powerful nations that want to ? with the US's military?kingblaze84 wrote: »=but notice it won't dare ? with a real powerful military, like Russia's.
also, here's your reminder that Russia THEMSELVES signed a deal to protect Ukraine's sovereignty.
against a lot more than six nations, actually. i'm not sure you were actually paying attention to this documentary.kingblaze84 wrote: »YES, America losing all these wars lately does remind me of the Third ? losing its wars (against 6 nations I believe)
because the US spent years annexing territory it had lost to its neighbors in prior war, then made an alliance to carve up Poland? also the Holocaust?kingblaze84 wrote: »And I didn't say America WILL end up like Germany's Third ? , but the path it's on is very similar.
THIS REMAINS THE STUPIDEST ? ANALOGY
...where to begin with this:kingblaze84 wrote: »Germany was at war with 6 or so nations during the 1940s: Czechoslovakia, Russia, France, England, America and parts of northern Africa. Eventually, Germany got tied down fighting all these wars and it was ? arrogance that put them down.
-it was more than "6 or so nations," France is more complicated than this, why did Poland get skipped, what does "parts of northern Africa mean," do we remember there we colonies during this war, did you notice Germany didn't get "tied down" so much as exhausted fighting to the extreme? ugh.
America did not invade a neighboring nation to start the conflict while running the Holocaust and acting on other full-scale invasions of neighboring nations. NOT A SIMILAR TRACK.kingblaze84 wrote: »America is on a similar track because it is spending WAAAYY too much money fighting all these operations, and eventually it can break us because it leaves us open to other threats. -
okay, let's get some quotes from AQ proper instead of the local branch now.kingblaze84 wrote: »As I predicted would happen, ISIS and Al-Qaeda have been united due to American air strikes targeting both groups in Iraq and Syria...
seriously, this is the worst, stupidest analogy you have ever used. it has the whole Godwin's Law thing AND the part where the comparison fails on multiple levels. jesus christ.kingblaze84 wrote: »America fighting all these wars worldwide reminds me of Germany's last few years of the Third ? , and we all know how that ended up....
no, it isn't losing its wars "in a similar fashion." Germany lost its wars to a worldwide alliance of the USSR and the US. is it not IMMEDIATELY apparent to you how this comparison is ? TRASH?kingblaze84 wrote: »America isn't getting bombed the way ? Germany did in the 1940s but it's losing its wars in a similar fashion.
wait, who are these powerful nations that want to ? with the US's military?kingblaze84 wrote: »=but notice it won't dare ? with a real powerful military, like Russia's.
also, here's your reminder that Russia THEMSELVES signed a deal to protect Ukraine's sovereignty.
against a lot more than six nations, actually. i'm not sure you were actually paying attention to this documentary.kingblaze84 wrote: »YES, America losing all these wars lately does remind me of the Third ? losing its wars (against 6 nations I believe)
because the US spent years annexing territory it had lost to its neighbors in prior war, then made an alliance to carve up Poland? also the Holocaust?kingblaze84 wrote: »And I didn't say America WILL end up like Germany's Third ? , but the path it's on is very similar.
THIS REMAINS THE STUPIDEST ? ANALOGY
...where to begin with this:kingblaze84 wrote: »Germany was at war with 6 or so nations during the 1940s: Czechoslovakia, Russia, France, England, America and parts of northern Africa. Eventually, Germany got tied down fighting all these wars and it was ? arrogance that put them down.
-it was more than "6 or so nations," France is more complicated than this, why did Poland get skipped, what does "parts of northern Africa mean," do we remember there we colonies during this war, did you notice Germany didn't get "tied down" so much as exhausted fighting to the extreme? ugh.
America did not invade a neighboring nation to start the conflict while running the Holocaust and acting on other full-scale invasions of neighboring nations. NOT A SIMILAR TRACK.kingblaze84 wrote: »America is on a similar track because it is spending WAAAYY too much money fighting all these operations, and eventually it can break us because it leaves us open to other threats.
You almost completely misread my post. Notice I never said America is exactly like the Third ? 's last days, I said it is on a SIMILAR path militarily. YES I KNOW the obvious differences but to call it a stupid analogy means you're missing my point.....the Third ? was fighting multiple nations and yes you're right it was more then 6 nations at the same damn time. And my BASIC point is that America is getting tied down in these wars in similar ways the Third ? was getting tied down. Not on the same level and yes we're all grateful we aren't getting bombed the way arrogant Nazis thought they never could be bombed. But hey, let's all hope it stays that way.
And as far as Russia, yes we all know they're breaking the deal they signed but they know America is so tied down and losing in Iraq that it can get away with what it wants. 32 Russian tanks in Ukraine now, and America isn't doing anything. Not that I'm complaining but it's funny how America isn't even trying to back up the military deal now. And you are being naive if you don't see ANY similarities in how many wars ? Germany was in the 40s and the many wars America is fighting or HAS fought in the last few years or decade:
Iraq (not going well, was invaded)
Syria (not going well)
Yemen (capital of Yemen now run by anti-American forces)
Afghanistan (Taliban rules most of the nation)
Pakistan (most Pakistanis dislike Americans)
Libya for awhile (now a place where Americans can't even open an embassy)
Now look at Germany in the 40s during its last few years fighting losing campaigns.....again, America is much stronger then the Third ? was in its last days obviously but militarily, the similarities are striking and IN FACT, will become more obvious in the months and years to come. I say that because America has a FAKE coalition in Syria and Iraq. The Kurds are the only ones who really have America's back in btw both nations.
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i think you're missing MY point: this is a terrible ? analogy that undermines your point and has the rest of us wasting time pointing out reasons why the military defeat of ? Germany is not, in fact, comparable to the US circa 2014.kingblaze84 wrote: »You almost completely misread my post. Notice I never said America is exactly like the Third ? 's last days, I said it is on a SIMILAR path militarily. YES I KNOW the obvious differences but to call it a stupid analogy means you're missing my point...
no, the US was not "getting tied down in these wars in similar ways the Third ? was getting tied down." what part of your analogy compares to the US invading Russia in 1941 after chopping up Poland with them and getting into an awe-inspiring consumption of men and material with them while liquidating thousands upon thousands of civilians?
right, i'm not worried we're not "getting bombed the way arrogant Nazis thought they never could be bombed" because the conflicts in question are NOT comparable. yes, it will stay that way because WORLD WAR ? TWO is not happening right now.
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i am not being "naive." i am listening to a top-five all-time stupid SL analogy.kingblaze84 wrote: »And you are being naive if you don't see ANY similarities in how many wars ? Germany was in the 40s and the many wars America is fighting or HAS fought in the last few years or decade
let's look at some brief comparisons:
-numerous countries on your list were not invaded and annexed by the US, whereas this would be a key component of 1940s Germany;
-you're substituting "most Pakistanis dislike Americans" for things like "AND THEN THE AMERICANS OPENED A THIRD FRONT WITH THOUSANDS OF SOLDIERS IN NORTH AFRICA."
the similarities are NOT striking. they will not become more obvious if they never start. this ? is terrible.kingblaze84 wrote: »but militarily, the similarities are striking and IN FACT, will become more obvious in the months and years to come. I say that because America has a FAKE coalition in Syria and Iraq. The Kurds are the only ones who really have America's back in btw both nations.
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more topically, let me source a more specific response to this:kingblaze84 wrote: »As I predicted would happen, ISIS and Al-Qaeda have been united due to American air strikes targeting both groups in Iraq and Syria....
ISTANBUL (AP) — Militant leaders from the Islamic State group and al-Qaida gathered at a farm house in northern Syria last week and agreed on a plan to stop fighting each other and work together against their opponents, a high-level Syrian opposition official and a rebel commander have told The Associated Press.
The Islamic State and Jabhat al-Nusra: A Looming Grand Jihadi Alliance?By Aymenn Jawad Al-Tamimi
The international coalition- led by the U.S.- against the Islamic State [IS], with additional American airstrikes targeting the ‘Khorasan’ al-Qa’ida group in Syria (in reality just al-Qa’ida veterans from the Afghanistan-Pakistan embedded with Syria’s al-Qa’ida affiliate Jabhat al-Nusra [JN])- has prompted media speculation of a wider truce, alliance or even merger between IS and JN. For example, on 28 September, Martin Chulov of The Guardian cited a “senior source” claiming “war planning meetings” held between JN and IS leaders.
More recently, a report in The Daily Beast cited “senior Syrian opposition sources” claiming merger talks between JN, IS and ‘Khorasan’, with further allegations, also claimed by the Syrian Observatory on Human Rights, that IS provided military assistance to JN in the recent JN moves against the Syrian Revolutionaries Front [SRF], Harakat Hazm and other perceived Western-backed rebel groups in Idlib province, noting that this development was supposedly the result of an agreement struck just west of Aleppo between IS and JN in a meeting overseen by ‘Khorasan’, attended also by the independent, anti-jihadi infighting group Jund al-Aqsa, and some members of Ahrar al-Sham. Finally, a report for the Associated Press has just come out, citing an ‘FSA’ commander in Aleppo province and an opposition official, claiming an agreement between IS and JN to end infighting and cooperate to destroy common enemies, including the Kurds and SRF. Present at the meeting, as in the Daily Beast report’s claims, were ‘Khorasan’, Jund al-Aqsa and some members of Ahrar al-Sham.
Are these reports credible? In a word: No. The following should be noted: -
The Islamic State and Jabhat al-Nusra: A Looming Grand Jihadi Alliance?– The rift between JN and IS is too great to heal at this point beyond the highly localized alliance between IS and JN in Qalamoun that reflects an exceptional situation where neither group can hold territory alone and both contingents are geographically isolated from members of their groups elsewhere in Syria, in addition to being preoccupied with constant fighting with regime forces and Hezbollah. At the broader level, IS still believes that JN is guilty of “defection” (‘inshiqāq) from IS in refusing to be subsumed under what was then the Islamic State of Iraq [ISI] to form the Islamic State in Iraq and al-Sham [ISIS] back in April 2013. The zero-sum demands of IS have only solidified with the claimed Caliphate status since 29 June demanding the allegiance of all the world’s Muslims.
In turn, JN refuses even to recognize IS’ claim to be an actual state, let alone a Caliphate. This was made apparent in JN leader Abu Muhammad al-Jowlani’s recent official interview on the “White Minaret” in which he made constantly referred to IS as jamaat ad-dawla (“the group of the state”), which can only be interpreted as an insult by IS, even as Jowlani made clear he believes the international coalition is intending to destroy both JN and IS.
In this context, a careful distinction needs to be made between the situation on the ground and attempts by al-Qa’ida branches elsewhere to engage in some form of solidarity outreach to IS in the face of the international coalition as a supposed war on Islam. Thus, contrasting with Jowlani’s constant use of ‘jamaat ad-dawla’ to refer to IS, both al-Qa’ida in the Islamic Maghreb [AQIM] and al-Qa’ida in the Arabian Peninsula [AQAP] simply refer to IS as IS refers to itself: ‘ad-dawla al-islamiya’ . However, such attempts at jihadi solidarity are ultimately incoherent ideologically: will AQAP and AQIM actually be willing to extend recognition of the Caliphate if pressed on this issue? Indeed, in the very same areas where AQAP and AQIM are operating, IS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi in his al-Furqan Media speech released yesterday rejoiced in new pledges of allegiance to IS in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Sinai, Algeria and Libya, calling for the annulment of any separate group identities and the creation of new wilayāt of IS. Will AQAP and AQIM be willing to lose their names and merge with these wilayāt? Nothing suggests any development of this sort. -
The Islamic State and Jabhat al-Nusra: A Looming Grand Jihadi Alliance?– The nature of the sourcing and content of the ‘JN-IS alliance’ reports is highly suspect. Chulov’s first report in particular is to be noted for its incoherence. While he has a source claiming war planning meetings between JN and IS, a “senior al-Nusra figure” is also mentioned as having told The Guardian that 73 members of JN had just defected to IS. What sense would there be in holding joint conferences to discuss war strategy if members of JN are at the same time leaving JN to join IS? As for the Daily Beast and Associated Press reports, the degree of overlap in the content of the two pieces- such as which groups are attending the supposed merger talks/alliance discussions- strongly suggests they are relying on the same sources. When one looks at these sources, linked as they are to the opposition-in-exile, it is clear they have an agenda to play on Western concerns about dangers of ‘Khorasan’ and the possibility, however remote, of some kind of unification between JN and IS in order to insist on the urgency of more Western support for ‘FSA’ groups to push back against jihadi forces.
On further examination, details of how this agreement between JN and IS is supposed to work come across as impractical, to put it mildly. For example, how would a joint front against Kurdish forces be opened? Would JN and IS participate in a joint offensive on Afrin? But IS is still not even in the vicinity of Afrin, and needs to retake its former border stronghold of Azaz to get there, or at least secure an access agreement through Azaz. Yet the local group that controls Azaz- Northern Storm- is currently affiliated with the Islamic Front, of which Ahrar al-Sham is still a part. Will members of Ahrar al-Sham now send a request Northern Storm to provide access to IS and cease working with other rebels to fight IS for control of Dabiq and other northern Aleppo localities? As for the other two main areas where there is a Kurdish military presence to fight- Kobani and north-east Hasakah province- there is no JN presence whatsoever, having disappeared in the vicinity of Kobani last year as members of JN in nearby towns such as Jarabulus defected to what was then ISIS, and having disappeared in Hasakah province after being subjugated under what was then ISIS at the start of this year.
On the subject of alleged JN-IS cooperation in Idlib province against SRF, there is no evidence whatsoever beyond hearsay to substantiate the claim, with any supposed photos of an IS presence in this case being the result of photoshop manipulation on social media. More importantly, the Dawn of Freedom Brigades- an ex-Liwa al-Tawheed/Islamic Front grouping primarily based in northern Aleppo province and Kobani but which also had an Idlib contingent- has denied to me the claims of IS military assistance to JN in Idlib, as IS withdrew from the province in the face of infighting with rebels at the start of this year. There might be IS sleeper cells intended to conduct sabotage operations against its rivals, but that does not satisfy the need for reliable evidence for active and open IS assistance to JN as is being claimed.
Interestingly, Dawn of Freedom had initially hoped to push back against JN for its moves against SRF and other Western-backed rebels in Idlib, originally intending to issue a 72-hour deadline for JN to withdraw from Jabal Zawiya or face war. However, realizing it was too weak to confront JN militarily, Dawn of Freedom has instead intended to focus its efforts on north Aleppo province, even as its members have now been targeted there too by JN on accusations of being Western-backed. Nonetheless, the group is not playing up any notions of a supposed new JN-IS alliance.
– In questioning the veracity of these reports, I do not intend to imply that there has been no outreach to IS by non-IS affiliated jihadis. As I have outlined previously with respect to the independent jihadi coalition Jabhat Ansar al-Din , ‘neither IS nor JN’ jihadis have generally tried to avoid fighting with IS as far as possible and have tried to avoid getting into any specifics of the JN-IS rift. It would not be surprising if members of these groups and coalitions might try- most likely on their own initiative or perhaps on an unofficial request from some members of other groups- to seek some outreach to and truce with IS on behalf of non-IS jihadis in Syria on the basis of working with IS on the grounds of common ideological end goal or enemies. However, all evidence shows that these initiatives have invariably failed (cf. Muheisseni’s failed ‘Ummah Initiative’ in January and the ‘And don’t separate’ joint jihadi offensive on Kweiris airbase that quickly collapsed), rooted in IS’ absolutism which seeks recognition of IS as the sole authority. This was so even when IS was just ISIS and ISI, which, as members of rival jihadi group Jamaat Ansar al-Islam have noted, consistently insisted on its status as a state and superior authority over others.
In short, the recent reports of supposed merger and alliance talks between JN and IS need to be taken with a pinch of salt as rebel disinformation. From JN’s perspective anyway, an alliance with IS would be strategically disastrous in the long-run, as IS will seek to subjugate it. That JN, Jabhat Ansar al-Din, al-Qa’ida branches and even more mainstream Islamists in general might see the international coalition as a war on Islam is only to be expected, and is certainly relevant to the question of whether the U.S. can build an effective local Sunni fighting force against IS in Iraq, for example. But this debate needs to be distinguished from sensationalist talk of IS-JN mergers and the like that fails to understand IS’ self-perception and how it relates to its interactions at the grand level with other groups. -
i think you're missing MY point: this is a terrible ? analogy that undermines your point and has the rest of us wasting time pointing out reasons why the military defeat of ? Germany is not, in fact, comparable to the US circa 2014.kingblaze84 wrote: »You almost completely misread my post. Notice I never said America is exactly like the Third ? 's last days, I said it is on a SIMILAR path militarily. YES I KNOW the obvious differences but to call it a stupid analogy means you're missing my point...
no, the US was not "getting tied down in these wars in similar ways the Third ? was getting tied down." what part of your analogy compares to the US invading Russia in 1941 after chopping up Poland with them and getting into an awe-inspiring consumption of men and material with them while liquidating thousands upon thousands of civilians?
right, i'm not worried we're not "getting bombed the way arrogant Nazis thought they never could be bombed" because the conflicts in question are NOT comparable. yes, it will stay that way because WORLD WAR ? TWO is not happening right now.
...
i am not being "naive." i am listening to a top-five all-time stupid SL analogy.kingblaze84 wrote: »And you are being naive if you don't see ANY similarities in how many wars ? Germany was in the 40s and the many wars America is fighting or HAS fought in the last few years or decade
let's look at some brief comparisons:
-numerous countries on your list were not invaded and annexed by the US, whereas this would be a key component of 1940s Germany;
-you're substituting "most Pakistanis dislike Americans" for things like "AND THEN THE AMERICANS OPENED A THIRD FRONT WITH THOUSANDS OF SOLDIERS IN NORTH AFRICA."
the similarities are NOT striking. they will not become more obvious if they never start. this ? is terrible.kingblaze84 wrote: »but militarily, the similarities are striking and IN FACT, will become more obvious in the months and years to come. I say that because America has a FAKE coalition in Syria and Iraq. The Kurds are the only ones who really have America's back in btw both nations.
You are missing the forest for the trees, again. America is much stronger then the Third ? 's last days and I don't need a history lesson, I know the obvious differences. Now the similarities I am speaking about:
In the Third ? 's last few days, it was tied down in LOSING CONFLICTS and was very hated in many parts of the world. America, in 2014, is VERY HATED IN MANY PARTS OF THE WORLD and is tied down in losing conflicts across the planet. On top of this, America's rivals across the world KNOW THIS and are able to capitalize on it (Russia in Ukraine, etc).
Germany during its last Third ? days, lost moral authority and therefore the respect of many around the world. In 2014, SEVERAL world polls show America as the greatest threat to world peace around the world. In the 1940s, general public opinion of many around the world showed THE THIRD ? as being the greatest threat to world peace.
Germany in its last Third ? days, was frustrated and surprised that its great military prowess was NOT SUCCEEDING against its various enemies. America, in 2014, is feeling the same way about its military and John Mccain himself said ISIS is winning against America so far. And I mentioned the other nations which are seeing America's efforts fail MISERABLY, including the invaded nations of Iraq and Afghanistan. Obama never ended the war in Iraq, and it's a failed effort so far, the Iraqi govt has almost no control of the nation outside Baghdad. America's foreign policy of destruction and massive hypocrisy has done very well creating more enemies than America can handle. Something the Third ? did very well in its last days as well.
Ignore those SIMILARITIES at your own peril. You would be foolish to do so. I'll add ONE MORE similarity. Germany's massive spy program against its own citizens and America's OWN massive spy program against its own citizens. Of course America's moral authority is much stronger then the Third ? and America is not as depraved a nation as Germany's Third ? was (to most Americans at least). And America did not annex land the way the Third ? did.....it did so in the 1800s, not in the 1940s as Germany did (lol). If anyone else has any other similarities that I am missing, please back me up here. -
The Islamic State and Jabhat al-Nusra: A Looming Grand Jihadi Alliance?– The nature of the sourcing and content of the ‘JN-IS alliance’ reports is highly suspect. Chulov’s first report in particular is to be noted for its incoherence. While he has a source claiming war planning meetings between JN and IS, a “senior al-Nusra figure” is also mentioned as having told The Guardian that 73 members of JN had just defected to IS. What sense would there be in holding joint conferences to discuss war strategy if members of JN are at the same time leaving JN to join IS? As for the Daily Beast and Associated Press reports, the degree of overlap in the content of the two pieces- such as which groups are attending the supposed merger talks/alliance discussions- strongly suggests they are relying on the same sources. When one looks at these sources, linked as they are to the opposition-in-exile, it is clear they have an agenda to play on Western concerns about dangers of ‘Khorasan’ and the possibility, however remote, of some kind of unification between JN and IS in order to insist on the urgency of more Western support for ‘FSA’ groups to push back against jihadi forces.
On further examination, details of how this agreement between JN and IS is supposed to work come across as impractical, to put it mildly. For example, how would a joint front against Kurdish forces be opened? Would JN and IS participate in a joint offensive on Afrin? But IS is still not even in the vicinity of Afrin, and needs to retake its former border stronghold of Azaz to get there, or at least secure an access agreement through Azaz. Yet the local group that controls Azaz- Northern Storm- is currently affiliated with the Islamic Front, of which Ahrar al-Sham is still a part. Will members of Ahrar al-Sham now send a request Northern Storm to provide access to IS and cease working with other rebels to fight IS for control of Dabiq and other northern Aleppo localities? As for the other two main areas where there is a Kurdish military presence to fight- Kobani and north-east Hasakah province- there is no JN presence whatsoever, having disappeared in the vicinity of Kobani last year as members of JN in nearby towns such as Jarabulus defected to what was then ISIS, and having disappeared in Hasakah province after being subjugated under what was then ISIS at the start of this year.
On the subject of alleged JN-IS cooperation in Idlib province against SRF, there is no evidence whatsoever beyond hearsay to substantiate the claim, with any supposed photos of an IS presence in this case being the result of photoshop manipulation on social media. More importantly, the Dawn of Freedom Brigades- an ex-Liwa al-Tawheed/Islamic Front grouping primarily based in northern Aleppo province and Kobani but which also had an Idlib contingent- has denied to me the claims of IS military assistance to JN in Idlib, as IS withdrew from the province in the face of infighting with rebels at the start of this year. There might be IS sleeper cells intended to conduct sabotage operations against its rivals, but that does not satisfy the need for reliable evidence for active and open IS assistance to JN as is being claimed.
Interestingly, Dawn of Freedom had initially hoped to push back against JN for its moves against SRF and other Western-backed rebels in Idlib, originally intending to issue a 72-hour deadline for JN to withdraw from Jabal Zawiya or face war. However, realizing it was too weak to confront JN militarily, Dawn of Freedom has instead intended to focus its efforts on north Aleppo province, even as its members have now been targeted there too by JN on accusations of being Western-backed. Nonetheless, the group is not playing up any notions of a supposed new JN-IS alliance.
– In questioning the veracity of these reports, I do not intend to imply that there has been no outreach to IS by non-IS affiliated jihadis. As I have outlined previously with respect to the independent jihadi coalition Jabhat Ansar al-Din , ‘neither IS nor JN’ jihadis have generally tried to avoid fighting with IS as far as possible and have tried to avoid getting into any specifics of the JN-IS rift. It would not be surprising if members of these groups and coalitions might try- most likely on their own initiative or perhaps on an unofficial request from some members of other groups- to seek some outreach to and truce with IS on behalf of non-IS jihadis in Syria on the basis of working with IS on the grounds of common ideological end goal or enemies. However, all evidence shows that these initiatives have invariably failed (cf. Muheisseni’s failed ‘Ummah Initiative’ in January and the ‘And don’t separate’ joint jihadi offensive on Kweiris airbase that quickly collapsed), rooted in IS’ absolutism which seeks recognition of IS as the sole authority. This was so even when IS was just ISIS and ISI, which, as members of rival jihadi group Jamaat Ansar al-Islam have noted, consistently insisted on its status as a state and superior authority over others.
In short, the recent reports of supposed merger and alliance talks between JN and IS need to be taken with a pinch of salt as rebel disinformation. From JN’s perspective anyway, an alliance with IS would be strategically disastrous in the long-run, as IS will seek to subjugate it. That JN, Jabhat Ansar al-Din, al-Qa’ida branches and even more mainstream Islamists in general might see the international coalition as a war on Islam is only to be expected, and is certainly relevant to the question of whether the U.S. can build an effective local Sunni fighting force against IS in Iraq, for example. But this debate needs to be distinguished from sensationalist talk of IS-JN mergers and the like that fails to understand IS’ self-perception and how it relates to its interactions at the grand level with other groups.
For the sake of America not embarrassing itself further in this conflict, I sincerely hope this report is correct. With that being said, ISIS has 200,000 fighters now according to Kurdish officials. So whether ISIS has joined with Al-Qaeda or not, ISIS members are growing day by day in a way that WILL make it inevitable that Obama will send troops directly to fight.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/war-with-isis-islamic-militants-have-army-of-200000-claims-kurdish-leader-9863418.html
War with Isis: Islamic militants have army of 200,000, claims senior Kurdish leader
-
Peter Kassig, former American Iraq War veteran and ISIS hostage, died today.
http://www.clarionproject.org/news/gruesome-islamic-state-video-announces-death-peter-kassig# -
kingblaze84 wrote: »
i think you're missing MY point: this is a terrible ? analogy that undermines your point and has the rest of us wasting time pointing out reasons why the military defeat of ? Germany is not, in fact, comparable to the US circa 2014.kingblaze84 wrote: »You almost completely misread my post. Notice I never said America is exactly like the Third ? 's last days, I said it is on a SIMILAR path militarily. YES I KNOW the obvious differences but to call it a stupid analogy means you're missing my point...
no, the US was not "getting tied down in these wars in similar ways the Third ? was getting tied down." what part of your analogy compares to the US invading Russia in 1941 after chopping up Poland with them and getting into an awe-inspiring consumption of men and material with them while liquidating thousands upon thousands of civilians?
right, i'm not worried we're not "getting bombed the way arrogant Nazis thought they never could be bombed" because the conflicts in question are NOT comparable. yes, it will stay that way because WORLD WAR ? TWO is not happening right now.
...
i am not being "naive." i am listening to a top-five all-time stupid SL analogy.kingblaze84 wrote: »And you are being naive if you don't see ANY similarities in how many wars ? Germany was in the 40s and the many wars America is fighting or HAS fought in the last few years or decade
let's look at some brief comparisons:
-numerous countries on your list were not invaded and annexed by the US, whereas this would be a key component of 1940s Germany;
-you're substituting "most Pakistanis dislike Americans" for things like "AND THEN THE AMERICANS OPENED A THIRD FRONT WITH THOUSANDS OF SOLDIERS IN NORTH AFRICA."
the similarities are NOT striking. they will not become more obvious if they never start. this ? is terrible.kingblaze84 wrote: »but militarily, the similarities are striking and IN FACT, will become more obvious in the months and years to come. I say that because America has a FAKE coalition in Syria and Iraq. The Kurds are the only ones who really have America's back in btw both nations.
You are missing the forest for the trees, again. America is much stronger then the Third ? 's last days and I don't need a history lesson, I know the obvious differences. Now the similarities I am speaking about:
In the Third ? 's last few days, it was tied down in LOSING CONFLICTS and was very hated in many parts of the world. America, in 2014, is VERY HATED IN MANY PARTS OF THE WORLD and is tied down in losing conflicts across the planet. On top of this, America's rivals across the world KNOW THIS and are able to capitalize on it (Russia in Ukraine, etc).
Germany during its last Third ? days, lost moral authority and therefore the respect of many around the world. In 2014, SEVERAL world polls show America as the greatest threat to world peace around the world. In the 1940s, general public opinion of many around the world showed THE THIRD ? as being the greatest threat to world peace.
Germany in its last Third ? days, was frustrated and surprised that its great military prowess was NOT SUCCEEDING against its various enemies. America, in 2014, is feeling the same way about its military and John Mccain himself said ISIS is winning against America so far. And I mentioned the other nations which are seeing America's efforts fail MISERABLY, including the invaded nations of Iraq and Afghanistan. Obama never ended the war in Iraq, and it's a failed effort so far, the Iraqi govt has almost no control of the nation outside Baghdad. America's foreign policy of destruction and massive hypocrisy has done very well creating more enemies than America can handle. Something the Third ? did very well in its last days as well.
Ignore those SIMILARITIES at your own peril. You would be foolish to do so. I'll add ONE MORE similarity. Germany's massive spy program against its own citizens and America's OWN massive spy program against its own citizens. Of course America's moral authority is much stronger then the Third ? and America is not as depraved a nation as Germany's Third ? was (to most Americans at least). And America did not annex land the way the Third ? did.....it did so in the 1800s, not in the 1940s as Germany did (lol). If anyone else has any other similarities that I am missing, please back me up here.
America is not tied down in losing conflicts across the planet where the ? do you get this ? we have had recent armed conflicts in one part of the world. GERMANY was hated in europe even before WW1 AND during ww2 it never had any moral authority. During the 1940"s germany launched wars of outright aggression to take control of surrounding nations and they allied with nations who did the same so of course they were going to be seen as a threat to world peace. The iraq war was an attempt at nation building ww2 was a WAR of conquest. THERE IS NO SIMILARITY.
The germans knew the war was lost years before they actually lost it there are far less similarities than you think. You failed history class. You are going to compare the nsa reading our e-mail and overseas communications to the actions of the gestapo?? does that seem like a valid comparison to you??? YOU FAILED HISTORY CLASS -
i actually don't think the report being true or not is what will or won't save the US from embarrassing itselfkingblaze84 wrote: »For the sake of America not embarrassing itself further in this conflict, I sincerely hope this report is correct. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »
i think you're missing MY point: this is a terrible ? analogy that undermines your point and has the rest of us wasting time pointing out reasons why the military defeat of ? Germany is not, in fact, comparable to the US circa 2014.kingblaze84 wrote: »You almost completely misread my post. Notice I never said America is exactly like the Third ? 's last days, I said it is on a SIMILAR path militarily. YES I KNOW the obvious differences but to call it a stupid analogy means you're missing my point...
no, the US was not "getting tied down in these wars in similar ways the Third ? was getting tied down." what part of your analogy compares to the US invading Russia in 1941 after chopping up Poland with them and getting into an awe-inspiring consumption of men and material with them while liquidating thousands upon thousands of civilians?
right, i'm not worried we're not "getting bombed the way arrogant Nazis thought they never could be bombed" because the conflicts in question are NOT comparable. yes, it will stay that way because WORLD WAR ? TWO is not happening right now.
...
i am not being "naive." i am listening to a top-five all-time stupid SL analogy.kingblaze84 wrote: »And you are being naive if you don't see ANY similarities in how many wars ? Germany was in the 40s and the many wars America is fighting or HAS fought in the last few years or decade
let's look at some brief comparisons:
-numerous countries on your list were not invaded and annexed by the US, whereas this would be a key component of 1940s Germany;
-you're substituting "most Pakistanis dislike Americans" for things like "AND THEN THE AMERICANS OPENED A THIRD FRONT WITH THOUSANDS OF SOLDIERS IN NORTH AFRICA."
the similarities are NOT striking. they will not become more obvious if they never start. this ? is terrible.kingblaze84 wrote: »but militarily, the similarities are striking and IN FACT, will become more obvious in the months and years to come. I say that because America has a FAKE coalition in Syria and Iraq. The Kurds are the only ones who really have America's back in btw both nations.
You are missing the forest for the trees, again. America is much stronger then the Third ? 's last days and I don't need a history lesson, I know the obvious differences. Now the similarities I am speaking about:
In the Third ? 's last few days, it was tied down in LOSING CONFLICTS and was very hated in many parts of the world. America, in 2014, is VERY HATED IN MANY PARTS OF THE WORLD and is tied down in losing conflicts across the planet. On top of this, America's rivals across the world KNOW THIS and are able to capitalize on it (Russia in Ukraine, etc).
Germany during its last Third ? days, lost moral authority and therefore the respect of many around the world. In 2014, SEVERAL world polls show America as the greatest threat to world peace around the world. In the 1940s, general public opinion of many around the world showed THE THIRD ? as being the greatest threat to world peace.
Germany in its last Third ? days, was frustrated and surprised that its great military prowess was NOT SUCCEEDING against its various enemies. America, in 2014, is feeling the same way about its military and John Mccain himself said ISIS is winning against America so far. And I mentioned the other nations which are seeing America's efforts fail MISERABLY, including the invaded nations of Iraq and Afghanistan. Obama never ended the war in Iraq, and it's a failed effort so far, the Iraqi govt has almost no control of the nation outside Baghdad. America's foreign policy of destruction and massive hypocrisy has done very well creating more enemies than America can handle. Something the Third ? did very well in its last days as well.
Ignore those SIMILARITIES at your own peril. You would be foolish to do so. I'll add ONE MORE similarity. Germany's massive spy program against its own citizens and America's OWN massive spy program against its own citizens. Of course America's moral authority is much stronger then the Third ? and America is not as depraved a nation as Germany's Third ? was (to most Americans at least). And America did not annex land the way the Third ? did.....it did so in the 1800s, not in the 1940s as Germany did (lol). If anyone else has any other similarities that I am missing, please back me up here.
America is not tied down in losing conflicts across the planet where the ? do you get this ? we have had recent armed conflicts in one part of the world. GERMANY was hated in europe even before WW1 AND during ww2 it never had any moral authority. During the 1940"s germany launched wars of outright aggression to take control of surrounding nations and they allied with nations who did the same so of course they were going to be seen as a threat to world peace. The iraq war was an attempt at nation building ww2 was a WAR of conquest. THERE IS NO SIMILARITY.
The germans knew the war was lost years before they actually lost it there are far less similarities than you think. You failed history class. You are going to compare the nsa reading our e-mail and overseas communications to the actions of the gestapo?? does that seem like a valid comparison to you??? YOU FAILED HISTORY CLASS
America IS losing in conflicts across the world, the Middle East is part of the world in case you don't know that. ISIS is gaining recruits FROM ACROSS THE WORLD and America is BADLY losing the propaganda war. Even America's phony coalition isn't doing much to help America out.
You call Iraq a winning effort? You call Afghanistan a winning effort? Yemen?! LOL......I'm not saying the NSA is as bad as the Gestapo but its massive spying program has similarities (and don't forget feds can confiscate money and property WITHOUT charges, look it up yourself). -
kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »
i think you're missing MY point: this is a terrible ? analogy that undermines your point and has the rest of us wasting time pointing out reasons why the military defeat of ? Germany is not, in fact, comparable to the US circa 2014.kingblaze84 wrote: »You almost completely misread my post. Notice I never said America is exactly like the Third ? 's last days, I said it is on a SIMILAR path militarily. YES I KNOW the obvious differences but to call it a stupid analogy means you're missing my point...
no, the US was not "getting tied down in these wars in similar ways the Third ? was getting tied down." what part of your analogy compares to the US invading Russia in 1941 after chopping up Poland with them and getting into an awe-inspiring consumption of men and material with them while liquidating thousands upon thousands of civilians?
right, i'm not worried we're not "getting bombed the way arrogant Nazis thought they never could be bombed" because the conflicts in question are NOT comparable. yes, it will stay that way because WORLD WAR ? TWO is not happening right now.
...
i am not being "naive." i am listening to a top-five all-time stupid SL analogy.kingblaze84 wrote: »And you are being naive if you don't see ANY similarities in how many wars ? Germany was in the 40s and the many wars America is fighting or HAS fought in the last few years or decade
let's look at some brief comparisons:
-numerous countries on your list were not invaded and annexed by the US, whereas this would be a key component of 1940s Germany;
-you're substituting "most Pakistanis dislike Americans" for things like "AND THEN THE AMERICANS OPENED A THIRD FRONT WITH THOUSANDS OF SOLDIERS IN NORTH AFRICA."
the similarities are NOT striking. they will not become more obvious if they never start. this ? is terrible.kingblaze84 wrote: »but militarily, the similarities are striking and IN FACT, will become more obvious in the months and years to come. I say that because America has a FAKE coalition in Syria and Iraq. The Kurds are the only ones who really have America's back in btw both nations.
You are missing the forest for the trees, again. America is much stronger then the Third ? 's last days and I don't need a history lesson, I know the obvious differences. Now the similarities I am speaking about:
In the Third ? 's last few days, it was tied down in LOSING CONFLICTS and was very hated in many parts of the world. America, in 2014, is VERY HATED IN MANY PARTS OF THE WORLD and is tied down in losing conflicts across the planet. On top of this, America's rivals across the world KNOW THIS and are able to capitalize on it (Russia in Ukraine, etc).
Germany during its last Third ? days, lost moral authority and therefore the respect of many around the world. In 2014, SEVERAL world polls show America as the greatest threat to world peace around the world. In the 1940s, general public opinion of many around the world showed THE THIRD ? as being the greatest threat to world peace.
Germany in its last Third ? days, was frustrated and surprised that its great military prowess was NOT SUCCEEDING against its various enemies. America, in 2014, is feeling the same way about its military and John Mccain himself said ISIS is winning against America so far. And I mentioned the other nations which are seeing America's efforts fail MISERABLY, including the invaded nations of Iraq and Afghanistan. Obama never ended the war in Iraq, and it's a failed effort so far, the Iraqi govt has almost no control of the nation outside Baghdad. America's foreign policy of destruction and massive hypocrisy has done very well creating more enemies than America can handle. Something the Third ? did very well in its last days as well.
Ignore those SIMILARITIES at your own peril. You would be foolish to do so. I'll add ONE MORE similarity. Germany's massive spy program against its own citizens and America's OWN massive spy program against its own citizens. Of course America's moral authority is much stronger then the Third ? and America is not as depraved a nation as Germany's Third ? was (to most Americans at least). And America did not annex land the way the Third ? did.....it did so in the 1800s, not in the 1940s as Germany did (lol). If anyone else has any other similarities that I am missing, please back me up here.
America is not tied down in losing conflicts across the planet where the ? do you get this ? we have had recent armed conflicts in one part of the world. GERMANY was hated in europe even before WW1 AND during ww2 it never had any moral authority. During the 1940"s germany launched wars of outright aggression to take control of surrounding nations and they allied with nations who did the same so of course they were going to be seen as a threat to world peace. The iraq war was an attempt at nation building ww2 was a WAR of conquest. THERE IS NO SIMILARITY.
The germans knew the war was lost years before they actually lost it there are far less similarities than you think. You failed history class. You are going to compare the nsa reading our e-mail and overseas communications to the actions of the gestapo?? does that seem like a valid comparison to you??? YOU FAILED HISTORY CLASS
America IS losing in conflicts across the world, the Middle East is part of the world in case you don't know that. ISIS is gaining recruits FROM ACROSS THE WORLD and America is BADLY losing the propaganda war. Even America's phony coalition isn't doing much to help America out.
You call Iraq a winning effort? You call Afghanistan a winning effort? Yemen?! LOL......I'm not saying the NSA is as bad as the Gestapo but its massive spying program has similarities (and don't forget feds can confiscate money and property WITHOUT charges, look it up yourself).
the middle east is one part of the world so it alone does not qualify as all across the planet like you are trying to make it seem. Also isis is only fighting there, we won the iraq war, iraq only fell apart after the iraqi government took over we are not at war in yemen and afghanistan it still stable. the nsa is nothing like the gestapo you failed history class.
ultimately propaganda does not win wars killing the enemy does ? germany which you clearly know very little about had great propaganda they still lost. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »
i think you're missing MY point: this is a terrible ? analogy that undermines your point and has the rest of us wasting time pointing out reasons why the military defeat of ? Germany is not, in fact, comparable to the US circa 2014.kingblaze84 wrote: »You almost completely misread my post. Notice I never said America is exactly like the Third ? 's last days, I said it is on a SIMILAR path militarily. YES I KNOW the obvious differences but to call it a stupid analogy means you're missing my point...
no, the US was not "getting tied down in these wars in similar ways the Third ? was getting tied down." what part of your analogy compares to the US invading Russia in 1941 after chopping up Poland with them and getting into an awe-inspiring consumption of men and material with them while liquidating thousands upon thousands of civilians?
right, i'm not worried we're not "getting bombed the way arrogant Nazis thought they never could be bombed" because the conflicts in question are NOT comparable. yes, it will stay that way because WORLD WAR ? TWO is not happening right now.
...
i am not being "naive." i am listening to a top-five all-time stupid SL analogy.kingblaze84 wrote: »And you are being naive if you don't see ANY similarities in how many wars ? Germany was in the 40s and the many wars America is fighting or HAS fought in the last few years or decade
let's look at some brief comparisons:
-numerous countries on your list were not invaded and annexed by the US, whereas this would be a key component of 1940s Germany;
-you're substituting "most Pakistanis dislike Americans" for things like "AND THEN THE AMERICANS OPENED A THIRD FRONT WITH THOUSANDS OF SOLDIERS IN NORTH AFRICA."
the similarities are NOT striking. they will not become more obvious if they never start. this ? is terrible.kingblaze84 wrote: »but militarily, the similarities are striking and IN FACT, will become more obvious in the months and years to come. I say that because America has a FAKE coalition in Syria and Iraq. The Kurds are the only ones who really have America's back in btw both nations.
You are missing the forest for the trees, again. America is much stronger then the Third ? 's last days and I don't need a history lesson, I know the obvious differences. Now the similarities I am speaking about:
In the Third ? 's last few days, it was tied down in LOSING CONFLICTS and was very hated in many parts of the world. America, in 2014, is VERY HATED IN MANY PARTS OF THE WORLD and is tied down in losing conflicts across the planet. On top of this, America's rivals across the world KNOW THIS and are able to capitalize on it (Russia in Ukraine, etc).
Germany during its last Third ? days, lost moral authority and therefore the respect of many around the world. In 2014, SEVERAL world polls show America as the greatest threat to world peace around the world. In the 1940s, general public opinion of many around the world showed THE THIRD ? as being the greatest threat to world peace.
Germany in its last Third ? days, was frustrated and surprised that its great military prowess was NOT SUCCEEDING against its various enemies. America, in 2014, is feeling the same way about its military and John Mccain himself said ISIS is winning against America so far. And I mentioned the other nations which are seeing America's efforts fail MISERABLY, including the invaded nations of Iraq and Afghanistan. Obama never ended the war in Iraq, and it's a failed effort so far, the Iraqi govt has almost no control of the nation outside Baghdad. America's foreign policy of destruction and massive hypocrisy has done very well creating more enemies than America can handle. Something the Third ? did very well in its last days as well.
Ignore those SIMILARITIES at your own peril. You would be foolish to do so. I'll add ONE MORE similarity. Germany's massive spy program against its own citizens and America's OWN massive spy program against its own citizens. Of course America's moral authority is much stronger then the Third ? and America is not as depraved a nation as Germany's Third ? was (to most Americans at least). And America did not annex land the way the Third ? did.....it did so in the 1800s, not in the 1940s as Germany did (lol). If anyone else has any other similarities that I am missing, please back me up here.
America is not tied down in losing conflicts across the planet where the ? do you get this ? we have had recent armed conflicts in one part of the world. GERMANY was hated in europe even before WW1 AND during ww2 it never had any moral authority. During the 1940"s germany launched wars of outright aggression to take control of surrounding nations and they allied with nations who did the same so of course they were going to be seen as a threat to world peace. The iraq war was an attempt at nation building ww2 was a WAR of conquest. THERE IS NO SIMILARITY.
The germans knew the war was lost years before they actually lost it there are far less similarities than you think. You failed history class. You are going to compare the nsa reading our e-mail and overseas communications to the actions of the gestapo?? does that seem like a valid comparison to you??? YOU FAILED HISTORY CLASS
America IS losing in conflicts across the world, the Middle East is part of the world in case you don't know that. ISIS is gaining recruits FROM ACROSS THE WORLD and America is BADLY losing the propaganda war. Even America's phony coalition isn't doing much to help America out.
You call Iraq a winning effort? You call Afghanistan a winning effort? Yemen?! LOL......I'm not saying the NSA is as bad as the Gestapo but its massive spying program has similarities (and don't forget feds can confiscate money and property WITHOUT charges, look it up yourself).
the middle east is one part of the world so it alone does not qualify as all across the planet like you are trying to make it seem. Also isis is only fighting there, we won the iraq war, iraq only fell apart after the iraqi government took over we are not at war in yemen and afghanistan it still stable. the nsa is nothing like the gestapo you failed history class.
ultimately propaganda does not win wars killing the enemy does ? germany which you clearly know very little about had great propaganda they still lost.
You are only bringing up the differences which everyone knows about regarding old Germany, I am merely speaking about the similarities, do you know what the word similarity means? We all know the differences btw the Gestapo and fed programs but ignore the fact the feds can seize property and assets WITHOUT charges and ignore all the abuses of power that comes with the ridiculous surveillance programs in America, the feds threatened Google and Yahoo for crying out loud and the worst part is despite their protests, they illegally hacked into emails and personal accounts of all kinds throughout the nation. According to many law experts all this is illegal but whatever I don't feel like arguing now. Either way, most Americans aren't happy with the massive hacking and surveillance.
ANYWAY, if you REALLY believe America's efforts in the Middle East are succeeding (HAHAHA), then keep on believing that. In a meanwhile, I'll hope things don't get any worse there. Things can't be that good in Iraq if Obama is breaking his campaign pledge to remove all troops from Iraq, he's sending them back in lol. Hope this goes well!!
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@kingblaze84
The similarities are so insignificant that there can be no serious comparison between america and ? germany, both nations had spy agencies and all the other organs of a modern state and that's about it, learn to take a ? L your comparison is ?
? i said we won the war in iraq and we did what's going on now in iraq is looking like what could be the start of a new war. which we will also win and will last only a few months. -
@kingblaze84
The similarities are so insignificant that there can be no serious comparison between america and ? germany, both nations had spy agencies and all the other organs of a modern state and that's about it, learn to take a ? L your comparison is ?
? i said we won the war in iraq and we did what's going on now in iraq is looking like what could be the start of a new war. which we will also win and will last only a few months.
John Kerry himself admitted the war against ISIS will take at least a year you ? idiot. He even suggested 3 years a few months ago dum dum. US generals on the ground also admit the war against ISIS will take years, has your stupid ass figured out America hasn't even defeated Al-Qaeda yet? What makes you think Americans can beat ISIS in a few months?
And America didn't win any war in Iraq, if they did win it Americans wouldn't be sending troops back in there AND TALKING ABOUT A WAR AGAIN. Iraqi troops were trained with billions of American dollars and all the gains were lost by Iraqi troops AND Americans because AMERICANS AIDED THE IRAQI GOVT WITH WEAPONS AND MONEY. YOU need to learn to take an L and accept it but of course, you don't know any better.
Regarding the scary similarities btw the Third ? 's final days and America losing conflict after conflict in the Middle East, read up on how Germany kept losing campaigns in its final Third ? days, and how America is STILL losing in Afghanistan (Taliban has most of the nation), Iraq (obvious by now) and other losing efforts in Yemen and Syria. If you would have said America is in a stalemate in the nations I mentioned, I probably wouldn't even debate with you because it's a more legit case. Read a ? book
