Ain't This About a ? , Dominicans Are Out Here Lynching Haitians

Maximus Rex
Maximus Rex Members Posts: 6,354 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited February 2015 in The Social Lounge
Thousands march in Haiti over Dominican racism

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/haiti/article11180039.html

BY JACQUELINE CHARLESJCHARLES@MIAMIHERALD.COM
02/25/2015


Haitiburn.JPG
Protesters march to the embassy of the Dominican Republic in Port-au-Prince, Haiti, Wednesday, Feb. 25, 2015. The protesters are outraged over a Feb. 11 lynching of young man of Haitian descent in the Dominican city of Santiago and are demanding that the neighboring country respect the human rights of Haitians.

Two weeks after a Haitian man was lynched in the Dominican Republic, thousands marched through the streets of Port-au-Prince on Wednesday, demanding justice and denouncing rising anti-Haitian sentiment in the neighboring Spanish-speaking country.

“Despite our diversity, despite our differences, we are a country, we exist and we deserve respect,” said Roman Catholic Monsignor Pierre-André Dumas, who helped planned the march. “We are neighbors, sharing the same island. The question of racism and barbarism need to be finished with on this island.”

It was a rare display of unity that attracted a cross-section of Haitians, including professionals, former presidential candidates, musicians and everyday citizens. With flags draped around their shoulders, they walked alongside school children who sang the country’s national anthem, La Dessalinienne, as they made their way from the Champ de Mars to Haiti’s Foreign Ministry to finally, the Dominican Embassy in Petionville.

At the Foreign Ministry, workers in a silent display of solidarity displayed the Haitian flag and handed out miniature flags to marchers, including police officers, who waved them while escorting the protest.

At the Dominican consulate, a small group ignored organizers’ call not to follow in the footsteps of an ultra-nationalist Dominican rights group that earlier this month burned a Haitian flag in the city of Santiago in the Dominican Republic. They removed the Dominican flag at the consulate and burned it, while two men tried to hoist a Haitian flag in its place.

“We strongly condemned this,’’ Dumas said. “A country’s flag is its symbol and needs to be respected. We cannot answer one act of barbarism with another.”

The burning of the Haitian flag occurred just days after a Haitian immigrant was found hanging from a tree, his feet and hands bound, in Santiago’s Ercilla Pepin Park. The man, nicknamed “Tulile,” has been identified by Haitian officials as Henry Claude Jean.

The Dominican authorities have told local reporters that Jean was lynched by fellow Haitians over a winning lottery ticket; his family disputes that claim.

It was the second time in four years that Haitians took to the streets to denounce perceived racism in a neighboring country. But unlike in 2011 when Haitians marched to decry Jamaica’s treatment of Haiti’s Under-17 soccer players amid a cholera outbreak, this show of solidarity comes amid heightened tensions between Haiti and the Dominican Republic, and rising concerns about the mistreatment of Haitian migrants in the Bahamas.

Coincidentally, the Bahamas will host a meeting of Caribbean Community (Caricom) leaders on Thursday and Friday where the issues are expected to be discussed. But President Michel Martelly will not be there. He has canceled his appearance to stay in Haiti to address the rising tensions with the Dominican Republic, Foreign Minister Duly Brutus said.

Last week, Brutus acknowledged there was a rise in “anti-Haitianism” in the Dominican Republic, which shares the island of Hispaniola with Haiti. Speaking at a news conference in Port-au-Prince, he was joined by Haiti’s ambassador to the Dominican Republic, Fritz Cinéas. Cinéas’ residence in Santo Domingo had recently been burglarized. Cinéas resigned Wednesday, the government said.

In a letter to Dominican Foreign Minister Andrés García Navarro, Brutus condemned the Haitian flag burning, and called on Dominican authorities “to respect the fundamental rights of every Haitian in the Dominican Republic.”

“We think it is extremely important for the Dominican government to make its voice heard on all these acts committed against Haitians in the Dominican Republic,” Brutus wrote.

A similar message was delivered Wednesday to Dominican Ambassador Ruben Silié Valdez by march organizer Rosny Desroches. Desroches delivered to the embassy a declaration signed by dozens of organizations.

“Our message is clear and it is to all of the Caribbean countries and all of our neighbors,” said Desroches, a leading member of Haitian civil society. “Haitians’ human rights need to be respected. Haitians have a right to dignity; a right to life; and a right to respect regardless of our economic situation. When you look at the role Haiti played in the fight for freedom, the fight against colonialism, Haitians are owed that respect.”

Wade McMullen, managing attorney with the Robert F. Kennedy Center for Justice and Human Rights in Washington, called the Haitian mobilization “a huge step forward.”

“We hope that this march will encourage and embolden the Haitian government to keep human rights concerns — including the denationalization of hundreds of thousands of Dominican citizens of Haitian descent — at the forefront of their bilateral relations with the Dominican Republic,” McMullen said.

Tens of thousands of Dominican citizens of Haitian descent, and Haitian migrants, are at risk of deportation come June. This is when Dominican authorities have said they will resume deportations for anyone who failed to legalize their status.

RKC has voiced concerns about the possible deportations and the treatment of Haitians in the Bahamas. It recently co-filed a complaint with the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights alleging that detainees at the Carmichael Detention Center in Nassau were being housed in inhumane conditions. This month the commission called on Bahamian officials to improve the center’s conditions. The majority of the detainees are Haitian migrants who have been targeted for deportation since a new immigration policy went into effect in the Bahamas on Nov. 1.

The Bahamian government has called the concerns about the center “overstated and inaccurate.” It did acknowledge, however, that it has a report addressing the conditions at the detention center. The report has not been made public.

McMullen says while he has detected some reticence on the part of Caribbean leaders to criticize the Bahamas for its broken immigration system, they need to be as vocal as they have been about the Dominican Republic. In 2013, Caricom strongly criticized the Dominican Republic after its Constitutional Court revoked citizenship of anyone born to immigrants without proper documentation dating back to 1929. Caricom also put the country’s application to join its 15-member regional bloc on hold until the issue is resolved.

St. Vincent Prime Minister Ralph Gonsalves, who led the criticism of the Dominican Republic on behalf of Caricom, said while he is awaiting an explanation from the Bahamas on how its situation differs from the Dominican Republic, he believes the issues are different. He also believes the Bahamas has shown more sensitivity than the Dominican Republic in trying to address undocumented Haitian migrants in its country of 300,000.

“It’s an absolute outrage and too many governments in the Western Hemisphere are sweeping this matter under the carpet, including a large number of Latin American governments,” Gonsalves said about the Dominican Republic, noting that he receives almost daily reports about the treatment of Haitians in the country.


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Comments

  • Maximus Rex
    Maximus Rex Members Posts: 6,354 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2015
    Yo, these Dominican ? are really out of line. They bring self hate to entirely unacceptable levels. The cold irony is that the Dominicans will come up here illegally (to America,) then have nerve enough to demand ? , when these denial, Tomas, coonin' ass won't even give Haitians the same ? that they're demanding of the U.S. government. Not only that they're getting ready to revoke the citizenship of Haitians born in D.R. to quote Sen Clay Davis, that's some shameless ? .

    What what's up with the rest of these Caribbean nations ? on Haitians? Those island ? treat Haitians worse than Latinos treat Mexicans. Even here in NYC, I notice that island ? look down on Haitians. My boy's mother who's 88 years old doesn't hold Haitians in high esteem, so y'all are going to have to school me on that.

    If anything, Haitians need to be alluded and held in the highest regard because they did something that no other nation has ever did and that is have successful slave revolt. It was our Haitian brothers who were the only ones who got those white folks up off of their ass and if you asked me as a matter of general principle, not only black (but freedom loving people across the world,) should be doing what's needed to help lift Haiti out of it's endemic poverty. The same also holds true for Liberia. However, these Dominican ? need to be shamed of themselves. Ole hoe ass self hatin' house ? .

  • StillFaggyAF
    StillFaggyAF Members Posts: 40,358 ✭✭✭✭✭
    there was alreadya thread about this in GNS
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2015
    If they keep this up there's gonna be serious riots in DR...Haitians don't play

    With that being said, Caribbeans shouldn't be looking down on Haitians, assuming that's true. While other Caribbean peoples were being ? on, whipped and enslaved for generations and got freedom only due to White mercy, Haitians fought and killed for their freedom in 1804, the way real ? is supposed to. Black Haitians got their freedom even before Blacks in America got it. No Caribbean should have the nerve to look down on any Haitian.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2015
    Some may not know this but there's still tension in the region from when Haiti owned Dominican Republic for 22 years, mostly to free the Black slaves White Dominicans owned. If it wasn't for the Spaniards and French and American sanctions against Haiti (causing Haiti to be in massive debt) and mismanagement, DR would probably still be part of Haiti to this day.
  • Maximus Rex
    Maximus Rex Members Posts: 6,354 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If they keep this up there's gonna be serious riots in DR...Haitians don't play

    With that being said, Caribbeans shouldn't be looking down on Haitians, assuming that's true. While other Caribbean peoples were being ? on, whipped and enslaved for generations and got freedom only due to White mercy, Haitians fought and killed for their freedom in 1804, the way real ? is supposed to. Black Haitians got their freedom even before Blacks in America got it. No Caribbean should have the nerve to look down on any Haitian.

    Goated and for the realness of that statement. Like I said, the Haitians were the only ones who got those white folks up off their ass. Black people world wide, (especially those in the Western Hemisphere should be looking to help those brothers, but at the same the avarice, graft, and corruption among Haitian politicians has to come to an end also.

  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2015
    If they keep this up there's gonna be serious riots in DR...Haitians don't play

    With that being said, Caribbeans shouldn't be looking down on Haitians, assuming that's true. While other Caribbean peoples were being ? on, whipped and enslaved for generations and got freedom only due to White mercy, Haitians fought and killed for their freedom in 1804, the way real ? is supposed to. Black Haitians got their freedom even before Blacks in America got it. No Caribbean should have the nerve to look down on any Haitian.

    Goated and for the realness of that statement. Like I said, the Haitians were the only ones who got those white folks up off their ass. Black people world wide, (especially those in the Western Hemisphere should be looking to help those brothers, but at the same the avarice, graft, and corruption among Haitian politicians has to come to an end also.

    Exactly, Black people in the Caribbean had to beg the White man for their freedom, African Americans were lucky that White people were getting tired of the tensions slavery was causing. Nat Turner's revolution lasted, what, a few weeks or months? Haitians beat back the world's most powerful military at the time and one of the top 5 greatest generals of all time, Napoleon. Napoleon spent so much money and resources losing the war in Haiti he decided to sell huge parts of his land in America (the Louisiana Purchase).

    With that being said, yes corruption is a problem in Haiti and that's holding it back. I read somewhere Haiti's economy is getting a little better, and unemployment isn't as high as it was in the late 90s. It takes way too long to start a business in Haiti , too many regulations as well. Hopefully leadership in Haiti does what the ? it needs to do. Same with the people, more responsibility is needed. I have family that actually started a few schools there, and they like the enthusiasm Haitian kids show at learning. Hopefully that continues.
  • StillFaggyAF
    StillFaggyAF Members Posts: 40,358 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If they keep this up there's gonna be serious riots in DR...Haitians don't play

    With that being said, Caribbeans shouldn't be looking down on Haitians, assuming that's true. While other Caribbean peoples were being ? on, whipped and enslaved for generations and got freedom only due to White mercy, Haitians fought and killed for their freedom in 1804, the way real ? is supposed to. Black Haitians got their freedom even before Blacks in America got it. No Caribbean should have the nerve to look down on any Haitian.

    false, there were other rebellions throughout the Caribbean; yall just were the most successful one
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AggyAF wrote: »
    If they keep this up there's gonna be serious riots in DR...Haitians don't play

    With that being said, Caribbeans shouldn't be looking down on Haitians, assuming that's true. While other Caribbean peoples were being ? on, whipped and enslaved for generations and got freedom only due to White mercy, Haitians fought and killed for their freedom in 1804, the way real ? is supposed to. Black Haitians got their freedom even before Blacks in America got it. No Caribbean should have the nerve to look down on any Haitian.

    false, there were other rebellions throughout the Caribbean; yall just were the most successful one

    There were other rebellions but none overthew the slave system in the Caribbean. At best some slaves ran away and formed their own communities. But majorities were still enslaved.
  • Stiff
    Stiff Members Posts: 7,723 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wish more American Blacks would invest in Haiti and develop deeper cultural ties. They should be a beacon of the African Diaspora...but they've been targeted ever since they got their freedom. Western powers had a vested interest in making sure that the nation of Haiti didn't succeed.
  • StillFaggyAF
    StillFaggyAF Members Posts: 40,358 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AggyAF wrote: »
    If they keep this up there's gonna be serious riots in DR...Haitians don't play

    With that being said, Caribbeans shouldn't be looking down on Haitians, assuming that's true. While other Caribbean peoples were being ? on, whipped and enslaved for generations and got freedom only due to White mercy, Haitians fought and killed for their freedom in 1804, the way real ? is supposed to. Black Haitians got their freedom even before Blacks in America got it. No Caribbean should have the nerve to look down on any Haitian.

    false, there were other rebellions throughout the Caribbean; yall just were the most successful one

    There were other rebellions but none overthew the slave system in the Caribbean. At best some slaves ran away and formed their own communities. But majorities were still enslaved.

    You also underestimate how small the other islands are. And conveniently left out blacks enslaving other blacks and the mulatto vs black wars that occurred


    And nobody looks down on haitians in ny anymore
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2015
    AggyAF wrote: »
    AggyAF wrote: »
    If they keep this up there's gonna be serious riots in DR...Haitians don't play

    With that being said, Caribbeans shouldn't be looking down on Haitians, assuming that's true. While other Caribbean peoples were being ? on, whipped and enslaved for generations and got freedom only due to White mercy, Haitians fought and killed for their freedom in 1804, the way real ? is supposed to. Black Haitians got their freedom even before Blacks in America got it. No Caribbean should have the nerve to look down on any Haitian.

    false, there were other rebellions throughout the Caribbean; yall just were the most successful one

    There were other rebellions but none overthew the slave system in the Caribbean. At best some slaves ran away and formed their own communities. But majorities were still enslaved.

    You also underestimate how small the other islands are. And conveniently left out blacks enslaving other blacks and the mulatto vs black wars that occurred


    And nobody looks down on haitians in ny anymore

    Yeah other Caribbean Islands were small and that is a factor in why slave revolts in Jamaica, Barbados and what not failed. But it doesn't tell the whole story, as Blacks usually outnumbered Whites in Caribbean slave nations too. And Cuba had a huge Black population and in fact is the largest island in the Caribbean by far.

    And Haitian Blacks enslaved other Blacks in Haiti? Slavery was outlawed in Haiti after the revolution so please explain, although there was a harsh work quota for people who worked on farmland. But chattel slavery was definitely outlawed in Haiti, unless I missed something.....Haiti's history of mulattoes vs Blacks was shameful yeah, but a lot of that was bad blood from French slave masters many times favoring light skin Blacks over dark skin ones. Dumb ? either way, it didn't help matters.

    We also can agree (from my personal experience) very few, if anyone in NY looks down on Haitians. I'm half-Haitian and some of my best friends in NY have been Dominican.
  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    for the most part there is a friendly rivalry between all the islands so caribbean people don't look down on haitians anymore than we look down on any other island.
  • StillFaggyAF
    StillFaggyAF Members Posts: 40,358 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AggyAF wrote: »
    AggyAF wrote: »
    If they keep this up there's gonna be serious riots in DR...Haitians don't play

    With that being said, Caribbeans shouldn't be looking down on Haitians, assuming that's true. While other Caribbean peoples were being ? on, whipped and enslaved for generations and got freedom only due to White mercy, Haitians fought and killed for their freedom in 1804, the way real ? is supposed to. Black Haitians got their freedom even before Blacks in America got it. No Caribbean should have the nerve to look down on any Haitian.

    false, there were other rebellions throughout the Caribbean; yall just were the most successful one

    There were other rebellions but none overthew the slave system in the Caribbean. At best some slaves ran away and formed their own communities. But majorities were still enslaved.

    You also underestimate how small the other islands are. And conveniently left out blacks enslaving other blacks and the mulatto vs black wars that occurred


    And nobody looks down on haitians in ny anymore

    Yeah other Caribbean Islands were small and that is a factor in why slave revolts in Jamaica, Barbados and what not failed. But it doesn't tell the whole story, as Blacks usually outnumbered Whites in Caribbean slave nations too. And Cuba had a huge Black population and in fact is the largest island in the Caribbean by far.

    And Haitian Blacks enslaved other Blacks in Haiti? Slavery was outlawed in Haiti after the revolution so please explain, although there was a harsh work quota for people who worked on farmland. But chattel slavery was definitely outlawed in Haiti, unless I missed something.....Haiti's history of mulattoes vs Blacks was shameful yeah, but a lot of that was bad blood from French slave masters many times favoring light skin Blacks over dark skin ones. Dumb ? either way, it didn't help matters.

    We also can agree (from my personal experience) very few, if anyone in NY looks down on Haitians. I'm half-Haitian and some of my best friends in NY have been Dominican.

    you had a lot of mulatto slave owners (my maternal ancestors being one of them)+plus the essentially feudal system Dessalines enacted after the revolution

    Jamaica could have been another Haiti after the Baptist War and Morant Bay war. i wish Haiti had tried to free other islands (they instead sent troops to South America and the DR). how dope would it be if Haiti support slave revolts throughout the Caribbean
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2015
    AggyAF wrote: »
    AggyAF wrote: »
    AggyAF wrote: »
    If they keep this up there's gonna be serious riots in DR...Haitians don't play

    With that being said, Caribbeans shouldn't be looking down on Haitians, assuming that's true. While other Caribbean peoples were being ? on, whipped and enslaved for generations and got freedom only due to White mercy, Haitians fought and killed for their freedom in 1804, the way real ? is supposed to. Black Haitians got their freedom even before Blacks in America got it. No Caribbean should have the nerve to look down on any Haitian.

    false, there were other rebellions throughout the Caribbean; yall just were the most successful one

    There were other rebellions but none overthew the slave system in the Caribbean. At best some slaves ran away and formed their own communities. But majorities were still enslaved.

    You also underestimate how small the other islands are. And conveniently left out blacks enslaving other blacks and the mulatto vs black wars that occurred


    And nobody looks down on haitians in ny anymore

    Yeah other Caribbean Islands were small and that is a factor in why slave revolts in Jamaica, Barbados and what not failed. But it doesn't tell the whole story, as Blacks usually outnumbered Whites in Caribbean slave nations too. And Cuba had a huge Black population and in fact is the largest island in the Caribbean by far.

    And Haitian Blacks enslaved other Blacks in Haiti? Slavery was outlawed in Haiti after the revolution so please explain, although there was a harsh work quota for people who worked on farmland. But chattel slavery was definitely outlawed in Haiti, unless I missed something.....Haiti's history of mulattoes vs Blacks was shameful yeah, but a lot of that was bad blood from French slave masters many times favoring light skin Blacks over dark skin ones. Dumb ? either way, it didn't help matters.

    We also can agree (from my personal experience) very few, if anyone in NY looks down on Haitians. I'm half-Haitian and some of my best friends in NY have been Dominican.

    you had a lot of mulatto slave owners (my maternal ancestors being one of them)+plus the essentially feudal system Dessalines enacted after the revolution

    Jamaica could have been another Haiti after the Baptist War and Morant Bay war. i wish Haiti had tried to free other islands (they instead sent troops to South America and the DR). how dope would it be if Haiti support slave revolts throughout the Caribbean

    Yeah before the revolution there were some Black or mulatto slave owners, true. But Toussaint outlawed slavery after freedom was won and went so far as to kick out many churches because many of them refused to give up the "holy slaves" the Catholic Church deemed acceptable. The feudal system was a mistake but leaders were desperate to keep Haiti a working economy and there was a big problem with many former slaves refusing to do any work at all. I guess after slavery ended, they felt they deserved a break for awhile.

    I do wish Haiti did more to help other slave revolts throughout the Caribbean, they had a ton of boats they captured from the French. Frustrating to think about, but I assume Haiti had its hands full killing off the slave owners in DR and helping out South America? And I personally think they were still worried about the French coming back for more war. Had to keep as many soldiers inland as possible.
  • mc317
    mc317 Members Posts: 5,548 ✭✭✭✭✭
    throw wyclef in there and they have my support
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2015
    mc317 wrote: »
    throw wyclef in there and they have my support

    Lol you want Wyclef hung?? Why, The Score is a classic. 3 Haitians made hip-hop's all time best selling group album, sold 17 or 18 million worldwide. It could be the best selling rap album of all time in fact
  • Maximus Rex
    Maximus Rex Members Posts: 6,354 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What happened with Clef running for President of Haiti or was that just a publicity stunt, a la Donald Trump?
  • mc317
    mc317 Members Posts: 5,548 ✭✭✭✭✭
    mc317 wrote: »
    throw wyclef in there and they have my support

    Lol you want Wyclef hung?? Why, The Score is a classic. 3 Haitians made hip-hop's all time best selling group album, sold 17 or 18 million worldwide. It could be the best selling rap album of all time in fact

    ? wyclef and his guitar, ? hatain jack too. and serpent in the rainbow
  • PapaDoc223
    PapaDoc223 Members Posts: 2,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AggyAF wrote: »
    AggyAF wrote: »
    AggyAF wrote: »
    If they keep this up there's gonna be serious riots in DR...Haitians don't play

    With that being said, Caribbeans shouldn't be looking down on Haitians, assuming that's true. While other Caribbean peoples were being ? on, whipped and enslaved for generations and got freedom only due to White mercy, Haitians fought and killed for their freedom in 1804, the way real ? is supposed to. Black Haitians got their freedom even before Blacks in America got it. No Caribbean should have the nerve to look down on any Haitian.

    false, there were other rebellions throughout the Caribbean; yall just were the most successful one

    There were other rebellions but none overthew the slave system in the Caribbean. At best some slaves ran away and formed their own communities. But majorities were still enslaved.

    You also underestimate how small the other islands are. And conveniently left out blacks enslaving other blacks and the mulatto vs black wars that occurred


    And nobody looks down on haitians in ny anymore

    Yeah other Caribbean Islands were small and that is a factor in why slave revolts in Jamaica, Barbados and what not failed. But it doesn't tell the whole story, as Blacks usually outnumbered Whites in Caribbean slave nations too. And Cuba had a huge Black population and in fact is the largest island in the Caribbean by far.

    And Haitian Blacks enslaved other Blacks in Haiti? Slavery was outlawed in Haiti after the revolution so please explain, although there was a harsh work quota for people who worked on farmland. But chattel slavery was definitely outlawed in Haiti, unless I missed something.....Haiti's history of mulattoes vs Blacks was shameful yeah, but a lot of that was bad blood from French slave masters many times favoring light skin Blacks over dark skin ones. Dumb ? either way, it didn't help matters.

    We also can agree (from my personal experience) very few, if anyone in NY looks down on Haitians. I'm half-Haitian and some of my best friends in NY have been Dominican.

    you had a lot of mulatto slave owners (my maternal ancestors being one of them)+plus the essentially feudal system Dessalines enacted after the revolution

    Jamaica could have been another Haiti after the Baptist War and Morant Bay war. i wish Haiti had tried to free other islands (they instead sent troops to South America and the DR). how dope would it be if Haiti support slave revolts throughout the Caribbean

    Toussaint originally planned that after freeing Haiti he would to start in Jamaica and free every slave in ? across the Americas. It wasnt really plan just a vision he had. Who knows what would have happened had he lived.
  • PapaDoc223
    PapaDoc223 Members Posts: 2,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AggyAF wrote: »
    AggyAF wrote: »
    AggyAF wrote: »
    If they keep this up there's gonna be serious riots in DR...Haitians don't play

    With that being said, Caribbeans shouldn't be looking down on Haitians, assuming that's true. While other Caribbean peoples were being ? on, whipped and enslaved for generations and got freedom only due to White mercy, Haitians fought and killed for their freedom in 1804, the way real ? is supposed to. Black Haitians got their freedom even before Blacks in America got it. No Caribbean should have the nerve to look down on any Haitian.

    false, there were other rebellions throughout the Caribbean; yall just were the most successful one

    There were other rebellions but none overthew the slave system in the Caribbean. At best some slaves ran away and formed their own communities. But majorities were still enslaved.

    You also underestimate how small the other islands are. And conveniently left out blacks enslaving other blacks and the mulatto vs black wars that occurred


    And nobody looks down on haitians in ny anymore

    Yeah other Caribbean Islands were small and that is a factor in why slave revolts in Jamaica, Barbados and what not failed. But it doesn't tell the whole story, as Blacks usually outnumbered Whites in Caribbean slave nations too. And Cuba had a huge Black population and in fact is the largest island in the Caribbean by far.

    And Haitian Blacks enslaved other Blacks in Haiti? Slavery was outlawed in Haiti after the revolution so please explain, although there was a harsh work quota for people who worked on farmland. But chattel slavery was definitely outlawed in Haiti, unless I missed something.....Haiti's history of mulattoes vs Blacks was shameful yeah, but a lot of that was bad blood from French slave masters many times favoring light skin Blacks over dark skin ones. Dumb ? either way, it didn't help matters.

    We also can agree (from my personal experience) very few, if anyone in NY looks down on Haitians. I'm half-Haitian and some of my best friends in NY have been Dominican.

    you had a lot of mulatto slave owners (my maternal ancestors being one of them)+plus the essentially feudal system Dessalines enacted after the revolution

    Jamaica could have been another Haiti after the Baptist War and Morant Bay war. i wish Haiti had tried to free other islands (they instead sent troops to South America and the DR). how dope would it be if Haiti support slave revolts throughout the Caribbean

    Yeah before the revolution there were some Black or mulatto slave owners, true. But Toussaint outlawed slavery after freedom was won and went so far as to kick out many churches because many of them refused to give up the "holy slaves" the Catholic Church deemed acceptable. The feudal system was a mistake but leaders were desperate to keep Haiti a working economy and there was a big problem with many former slaves refusing to do any work at all. I guess after slavery ended, they felt they deserved a break for awhile.

    I do wish Haiti did more to help other slave revolts throughout the Caribbean, they had a ton of boats they captured from the French. Frustrating to think about, but I assume Haiti had its hands full killing off the slave owners in DR and helping out South America? And I personally think they were still worried about the French coming back for more war. Had to keep as many soldiers inland as possible.

    When France demanded money for Haitis independence in 1825 they said if Haiti didnt pay they would bombard Port au Prince bay. The mulatto coward Boyer gave in and put in Haiti in poverty paying a debt. The people were ready to fight again but Boyer eanted to be accepted by the whites gave in cowardly. After independence Haiti built hundred of forts with fears that the French coming back. Mind you at the time Haiti was surrounded and isolated by major slave countries in the Western Hemisphere.

    They were is no position to instigate slave revolts cuz they would face a multi front war from Brazil,France,Gran Colombia,Great Britian and the big hypocrite the US.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2015
    PapaDoc223 wrote: »
    AggyAF wrote: »
    AggyAF wrote: »
    AggyAF wrote: »
    If they keep this up there's gonna be serious riots in DR...Haitians don't play

    With that being said, Caribbeans shouldn't be looking down on Haitians, assuming that's true. While other Caribbean peoples were being ? on, whipped and enslaved for generations and got freedom only due to White mercy, Haitians fought and killed for their freedom in 1804, the way real ? is supposed to. Black Haitians got their freedom even before Blacks in America got it. No Caribbean should have the nerve to look down on any Haitian.

    false, there were other rebellions throughout the Caribbean; yall just were the most successful one

    There were other rebellions but none overthew the slave system in the Caribbean. At best some slaves ran away and formed their own communities. But majorities were still enslaved.

    You also underestimate how small the other islands are. And conveniently left out blacks enslaving other blacks and the mulatto vs black wars that occurred


    And nobody looks down on haitians in ny anymore

    Yeah other Caribbean Islands were small and that is a factor in why slave revolts in Jamaica, Barbados and what not failed. But it doesn't tell the whole story, as Blacks usually outnumbered Whites in Caribbean slave nations too. And Cuba had a huge Black population and in fact is the largest island in the Caribbean by far.

    And Haitian Blacks enslaved other Blacks in Haiti? Slavery was outlawed in Haiti after the revolution so please explain, although there was a harsh work quota for people who worked on farmland. But chattel slavery was definitely outlawed in Haiti, unless I missed something.....Haiti's history of mulattoes vs Blacks was shameful yeah, but a lot of that was bad blood from French slave masters many times favoring light skin Blacks over dark skin ones. Dumb ? either way, it didn't help matters.

    We also can agree (from my personal experience) very few, if anyone in NY looks down on Haitians. I'm half-Haitian and some of my best friends in NY have been Dominican.

    you had a lot of mulatto slave owners (my maternal ancestors being one of them)+plus the essentially feudal system Dessalines enacted after the revolution

    Jamaica could have been another Haiti after the Baptist War and Morant Bay war. i wish Haiti had tried to free other islands (they instead sent troops to South America and the DR). how dope would it be if Haiti support slave revolts throughout the Caribbean

    Yeah before the revolution there were some Black or mulatto slave owners, true. But Toussaint outlawed slavery after freedom was won and went so far as to kick out many churches because many of them refused to give up the "holy slaves" the Catholic Church deemed acceptable. The feudal system was a mistake but leaders were desperate to keep Haiti a working economy and there was a big problem with many former slaves refusing to do any work at all. I guess after slavery ended, they felt they deserved a break for awhile.

    I do wish Haiti did more to help other slave revolts throughout the Caribbean, they had a ton of boats they captured from the French. Frustrating to think about, but I assume Haiti had its hands full killing off the slave owners in DR and helping out South America? And I personally think they were still worried about the French coming back for more war. Had to keep as many soldiers inland as possible.

    When France demanded money for Haitis independence in 1825 they said if Haiti didnt pay they would bombard Port au Prince bay. The mulatto coward Boyer gave in and put in Haiti in poverty paying a debt. The people were ready to fight again but Boyer eanted to be accepted by the whites gave in cowardly. After independence Haiti built hundred of forts with fears that the French coming back. Mind you at the time Haiti was surrounded and isolated by major slave countries in the Western Hemisphere.

    They were is no position to instigate slave revolts cuz they would face a multi front war from Brazil,France,Gran Colombia,Great Britian and the big hypocrite the US.

    Yeah you make sense, Haiti had its hands full dealing with Napoleon, one of the top 3 generals of all time probably. And France still had lots of troops in North America and the Caribbean, so with America being friends with France too, Haitians realistically couldn't do much outside the island.
  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    Yeah you make sense, Haiti had its hands full dealing with Napoleon, one of the top 3 generals of all time probably. And France still had lots of troops in North America and the Caribbean, so with America being friends with France too, Haitians realistically couldn't do much outside the island.
    might be overrating that little Corsican a little.
    Haiti's revolution did hit at a time when France was a little overstretched, so it's probably less about what France could do and more about "surrounding nations weren't anti-slavery enough."

  • StillFaggyAF
    StillFaggyAF Members Posts: 40,358 ✭✭✭✭✭
    mc317 wrote: »
    throw wyclef in there and they have my support

    Lol you want Wyclef hung?? Why, The Score is a classic. 3 Haitians made hip-hop's all time best selling group album, sold 17 or 18 million worldwide. It could be the best selling rap album of all time in fact

    just a sidenote, Lauryn Hill wasn't Haitian
    PapaDoc223 wrote: »
    AggyAF wrote: »
    AggyAF wrote: »
    AggyAF wrote: »
    If they keep this up there's gonna be serious riots in DR...Haitians don't play

    With that being said, Caribbeans shouldn't be looking down on Haitians, assuming that's true. While other Caribbean peoples were being ? on, whipped and enslaved for generations and got freedom only due to White mercy, Haitians fought and killed for their freedom in 1804, the way real ? is supposed to. Black Haitians got their freedom even before Blacks in America got it. No Caribbean should have the nerve to look down on any Haitian.

    false, there were other rebellions throughout the Caribbean; yall just were the most successful one

    There were other rebellions but none overthew the slave system in the Caribbean. At best some slaves ran away and formed their own communities. But majorities were still enslaved.

    You also underestimate how small the other islands are. And conveniently left out blacks enslaving other blacks and the mulatto vs black wars that occurred


    And nobody looks down on haitians in ny anymore

    Yeah other Caribbean Islands were small and that is a factor in why slave revolts in Jamaica, Barbados and what not failed. But it doesn't tell the whole story, as Blacks usually outnumbered Whites in Caribbean slave nations too. And Cuba had a huge Black population and in fact is the largest island in the Caribbean by far.

    And Haitian Blacks enslaved other Blacks in Haiti? Slavery was outlawed in Haiti after the revolution so please explain, although there was a harsh work quota for people who worked on farmland. But chattel slavery was definitely outlawed in Haiti, unless I missed something.....Haiti's history of mulattoes vs Blacks was shameful yeah, but a lot of that was bad blood from French slave masters many times favoring light skin Blacks over dark skin ones. Dumb ? either way, it didn't help matters.

    We also can agree (from my personal experience) very few, if anyone in NY looks down on Haitians. I'm half-Haitian and some of my best friends in NY have been Dominican.

    you had a lot of mulatto slave owners (my maternal ancestors being one of them)+plus the essentially feudal system Dessalines enacted after the revolution

    Jamaica could have been another Haiti after the Baptist War and Morant Bay war. i wish Haiti had tried to free other islands (they instead sent troops to South America and the DR). how dope would it be if Haiti support slave revolts throughout the Caribbean

    Yeah before the revolution there were some Black or mulatto slave owners, true. But Toussaint outlawed slavery after freedom was won and went so far as to kick out many churches because many of them refused to give up the "holy slaves" the Catholic Church deemed acceptable. The feudal system was a mistake but leaders were desperate to keep Haiti a working economy and there was a big problem with many former slaves refusing to do any work at all. I guess after slavery ended, they felt they deserved a break for awhile.

    I do wish Haiti did more to help other slave revolts throughout the Caribbean, they had a ton of boats they captured from the French. Frustrating to think about, but I assume Haiti had its hands full killing off the slave owners in DR and helping out South America? And I personally think they were still worried about the French coming back for more war. Had to keep as many soldiers inland as possible.

    When France demanded money for Haitis independence in 1825 they said if Haiti didnt pay they would bombard Port au Prince bay. The mulatto coward Boyer gave in and put in Haiti in poverty paying a debt. The people were ready to fight again but Boyer eanted to be accepted by the whites gave in cowardly. After independence Haiti built hundred of forts with fears that the French coming back. Mind you at the time Haiti was surrounded and isolated by major slave countries in the Western Hemisphere.

    They were is no position to instigate slave revolts cuz they would face a multi front war from Brazil,France,Gran Colombia,Great Britian and the big hypocrite the US.

    Yeah you make sense, Haiti had its hands full dealing with Napoleon, one of the top 3 generals of all time probably. And France still had lots of troops in North America and the Caribbean, so with America being friends with France too, Haitians realistically couldn't do much outside the island.



    Haiti did have time to lend support to the independence movements in Venezuela and Colombia tho
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2015
    janklow wrote: »
    Yeah you make sense, Haiti had its hands full dealing with Napoleon, one of the top 3 generals of all time probably. And France still had lots of troops in North America and the Caribbean, so with America being friends with France too, Haitians realistically couldn't do much outside the island.
    might be overrating that little Corsican a little.
    Haiti's revolution did hit at a time when France was a little overstretched, so it's probably less about what France could do and more about "surrounding nations weren't anti-slavery enough."

    As far as pure power and wide spread influence, I always considered Napoleon possibly a top 3 general but maybe he's top 4 when I think about it

    1) Genghis Khan
    2) Alexander the Great
    3) Julius Caesar
    4) Napoleon

    And you're right in that France was overstretched, but Napoleon still sent a large force into Haiti to put down the slave rebellion, capture Haiti for France and re-instate slavery. And he STILL lost. Napoleon also admitted to his followers that the French could not handle the tropical diseases the way the Haitians could.
  • StillFaggyAF
    StillFaggyAF Members Posts: 40,358 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Martinique and Guadeloupe had revolts too, but they were put down