Better Overall Wrestler Vol. 2: HBK vs Stone Cold Steve Austin

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  • blu197
    blu197 Members Posts: 6,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HBK
    Watch Stings early WCW career. He was constantly putting guys over. The best definition. The Rock is probably the best thing example in the WWE as far as super main event status. Even Orton put over Mark Henry clean at times. Cena with Owens.

    ? Foley put over more guys in the E than Rock to me.. Cena didn't put over Owens, he let Owens beat him clean once (when it wasn't for the Title) then Cena beat him clean 3 times in a row and made him tap
  • DOPEdweebz
    DOPEdweebz Members, Moderators, Writer Posts: 29,364 Regulator
    Stone Cold Steve Austin
    blu197 wrote: »
    Watch Stings early WCW career. He was constantly putting guys over. The best definition. The Rock is probably the best thing example in the WWE as far as super main event status. Even Orton put over Mark Henry clean at times. Cena with Owens.

    ? Foley put over more guys in the E than Rock to me.. Cena didn't put over Owens, he let Owens beat him clean once (when it wasn't for the Title) then Cena beat him clean 3 times in a row and made him tap

    ? Foley is a good choice. I can see your point with Owens vs Cena. But I gotta agree with Peezy about HHH vs The Rock during the IC days. They were both about the same status, and The Rock kinda skyrocketed pass HHH a bit. I felt in 2000 that The Rock was putting over HHH actually. Alot of guys weee putting HHH over b4 he could put anyone over. You cant be an IC level and "put guys over" unless you been a clear IC level talent for years and is putting new talent over. HHH was on and off IC level b4 he became the DX leader by default after HBKs retirement.

    HHH and the Rock were kinda like the Cena and Orton b4 Cena and Orton, except by the time they feuded at the main event, one was already firmly established in the Rock, by the time HHH was starting his heel run with Chyna into Stephanie McMahon.
  • jono
    jono Members Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2015
    HBK
    blu197 wrote: »
    jono wrote: »
    Flair? This ? just said RIC FLAIR don't put people over? The stylin and profilin, limousine ridin, jet flyin, WOOOOOOOOO Nature Boy?

    GTFOH

    You don't reach 16 World Titles but at the same time put over talent, that doesn't even make sense.. Flair in his older Ruthless Aggression WWE days put people over but not in his NWA,WWF and especially his WCW Four Horsemen days

    He lost the title 16 times too.
    Sting
    Kerry Von Erich
    Ricky Steamboat
    Giant
    Vader

    Not to mention wresting long matches and draws with the ? Red Rooster (Terry Taylor), Barry Windham, Scott Steiner and Ricky Morton.

    Again who?

    Putting guys over isnt just losing its making them look on par with you. He wrestled 45 minutes with Terry Taylor, 45 ? minutes with that pos. C'mon B stop it
  • blu197
    blu197 Members Posts: 6,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2015
    HBK
    blu197 wrote: »
    Watch Stings early WCW career. He was constantly putting guys over. The best definition. The Rock is probably the best thing example in the WWE as far as super main event status. Even Orton put over Mark Henry clean at times. Cena with Owens.

    ? Foley put over more guys in the E than Rock to me.. Cena didn't put over Owens, he let Owens beat him clean once (when it wasn't for the Title) then Cena beat him clean 3 times in a row and made him tap

    ? Foley is a good choice. I can see your point with Owens vs Cena. But I gotta agree with Peezy about HHH vs The Rock during the IC days. They were both about the same status, and The Rock kinda skyrocketed pass HHH a bit. I felt in 2000 that The Rock was putting over HHH actually. Alot of guys weee putting HHH over b4 he could put anyone over. You cant be an IC level and "put guys over" unless you been a clear IC level talent for years and is putting new talent over.HHH was on and off IC level b4 he became the DX leader by default after HBKs retirement.

    HHH and the Rock were kinda like the Cena and Orton b4 Cena and Orton, except by the time they feuded at the main event, one was already firmly established in the Rock, by the time HHH was starting his heel run with Chyna into Stephanie McMahon.

    And Rock was right there still in NOD and in the IC mix with him, Rock and HHH were the top of the mid card at that time and would have ladder matches and i quit matches for the IC Belt...

    HBK officially retired in March 1998, Rock got his first World title in November 98 and HHH got his first World title in August 1999 (while still with Chyna) and Foley put over both to give them their first run, Rock was only ahead of HHH in terms of rank on the card for a few months, but Rock and HHH both put eachother over, HHH more so when they were in the mid card and Rock more so when they became Main Eventers
  • blu197
    blu197 Members Posts: 6,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2015
    HBK
    jono wrote: »
    blu197 wrote: »
    jono wrote: »
    Flair? This ? just said RIC FLAIR don't put people over? The stylin and profilin, limousine ridin, jet flyin, WOOOOOOOOO Nature Boy?

    GTFOH

    You don't reach 16 World Titles but at the same time put over talent, that doesn't even make sense.. Flair in his older Ruthless Aggression WWE days put people over but not in his NWA,WWF and especially his WCW Four Horsemen days

    He lost the title 16 times too.
    Sting
    Kerry Von Erich
    Ricky Steamboat
    Giant
    Vader

    Not to mention wresting long matches and draws with the ? Red Rooster (Terry Taylor), Barry Windham, Scott Steiner and Ricky Morton.

    Again who?

    Putting guys over isnt just losing its making them look on par with you. He wrestled 45 minutes with Terry Taylor, 45 ? minutes with that pos. C'mon B stop it

    I'm not sayin he didn't have good to great matches with household guys (some not), and im not sayin Flair completly buried talent (even though he's buried his share more in the politic game than in the ring) I'm sayin he didn't really put guys over until he was washed up..

    And the Wins far outweigh the Losses in 16 World Title runs, unless every Title run you're being booked like Seth Rollins..
  • Peezy_Jenkins
    Peezy_Jenkins Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 33,205 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HBK
    I already said Hogan, lol at flair he definitely put people over, cena has his time of not doing it at the right time but not as much as hhh. Once again blu is the dumbest ? on earth
  • blu197
    blu197 Members Posts: 6,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2015
    HBK
    I already said Hogan, lol at flair he definitely put people over, cena has his time of not doing it at the right time but not as much as hhh. Once again blu is the dumbest ? on earth

    Rusev, Sandow, Ryder, Miz, Wyatt, Barrett, Ziggler ect All guys that were buried or had their momentum killed after feuding with Cena, guys like Edge and Orton survived bc they kept pushing them and CM Punk got lucky bc he's great on the mic..

    Cena has multiple squash matches a year. Outside of Booker who has HHH buried or slowed down a guys momentum after a feud?

    I know you love Cena bc you're a fruit but you can't sit here and try to say Cena has a shorter burial list than H and puts over more talent without lookin dumb af
  • Already Home_17
    Already Home_17 Members Posts: 14,572 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2015
    blu197 wrote: »
    I already said Hogan, lol at flair he definitely put people over, cena has his time of not doing it at the right time but not as much as hhh. Once again blu is the dumbest ? on earth

    Rusev, Sandow, Ryder, Miz, Wyatt, Barrett, Ziggler ect All guys that were buried or had their momentum killed after feuding with Cena, guys like Edge and Orton survived bc they kept pushing them and CM Punk got lucky bc he's great on the mic..

    Cena has multiple squash matches a year. Outside of Booker who has HHH buried or slowed down a guys momentum after a feud?

    I know you love Cena bc you're a fruit but you can't sit here and try to say Cena has a shorter burial list than H and puts over more talent without lookin dumb af

    jeff hardy - 2008
    RVD - 2002
    kane - 2002
    Goldberg - 2003 (Goldberg won the title a month later but it was too late)
    Steiner - 2003
    jericho - in damn near every match they had
    orton - WM25 (see goldberg)
    cm punk - 2011

    none of these guys were buried but their momentum was def. slowed down
  • blu197
    blu197 Members Posts: 6,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2015
    HBK
    blu197 wrote: »
    I already said Hogan, lol at flair he definitely put people over, cena has his time of not doing it at the right time but not as much as hhh. Once again blu is the dumbest ? on earth

    Rusev, Sandow, Ryder, Miz, Wyatt, Barrett, Ziggler ect All guys that were buried or had their momentum killed after feuding with Cena, guys like Edge and Orton survived bc they kept pushing them and CM Punk got lucky bc he's great on the mic..

    Cena has multiple squash matches a year. Outside of Booker who has HHH buried or slowed down a guys momentum after a feud?

    I know you love Cena bc you're a fruit but you can't sit here and try to say Cena has a shorter burial list than H and puts over more talent without lookin dumb af

    jeff hardy - 2008
    RVD - 2002
    kane - 2002
    Goldberg - 2003 (Goldberg won the title a month later but it was too late)
    Steiner - 2003
    jericho - in damn near every match they had
    orton - WM25 (see goldberg)
    cm punk - 2011

    none of these guys were buried but their momentum was def. slowed down

    Hell no on RVD, you forced tf outta Goldberg and Orton, Steiner was never getting a push, Jeff momentum slowed down due to substance abuse, Kane gained momentum after he first took the mask off...

    So only Punk and Jericho, one will be in the WWE Hall of Fame the other won't bc of his beef with Vince and the buisness, so HHH didn't slow their momentum down nearly as bad as Cena did with the guys I've named....
  • Already Home_17
    Already Home_17 Members Posts: 14,572 ✭✭✭✭✭
    there are times where you have the strike when the iron is hot

    Goldberg had the whole arena behind him at that sunmerslam PPV. he ran through everyone in the chamber with ease
    hhh beat him with one offensive move

    momentum slowed

    orton took out the entire McMahon family heading into WM25. one of the best build ups to a wwe title match in recent memory. he should've beat hhh at mania for the title. not only did he lose, the match was boring af and didn't produce one memorable moment. orton winning could've been that moment

    momentum slowed

    you bringing up Kane taking off his mask to gain momentum...8 months after hhh slowed his momentum

    stiener was never getting that push? ? he faced hhh for the title at back to back ppvs. is that not a push? he lost both matches and didn't do ? noteworthy afterwards

    momentum slowed

    Hardy was the hottest wrestler in fall 2008 and HHH wouldn't lose to him for 3 straight ppvs. had edge not returned to drop the title to Hardy he probably would've never won it. I don't want to hear about hardys substance abuse issue because that didn't stop hhh from dropping the belt to orton

    Booker T - we don't need to go there

    cena would at least tell an opponent he respects them or takes them seriously. hhh would literally tell damn near every hot act "you're not even in my league" then prove it by beating them

    put the cape away. hhh isn't perfect
  • blu197
    blu197 Members Posts: 6,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HBK
    What is the Heel suppose to say, some "you're better than me" ? ?? Steiner had a fake push, Vince never thought about giving that ? the title, he was just a body for HHH to collect, same for Booker, it was just wack how they played Booker by basically rubbing it in with shootish promos that he wasn't gonna win since the feud first started....

    Goldberg momentum never slowed at all ? was still just as hyped when he beat HHH, same for Orton...

    Smh at you really tryin to say the ? HHH did for two years is on par with the ? Cena has done close to over a decade..
  • Peezy_Jenkins
    Peezy_Jenkins Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 33,205 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HBK
    The proof is right there in front of u u bafoon, spit hhh ? out
  • Peezy_Jenkins
    Peezy_Jenkins Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 33,205 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HBK
    The fact u deny the Goldberg one which is probably the most egregious behind Booker tells us all we need to know
  • Recaptimus_Prime360
    Recaptimus_Prime360 Members Posts: 64,801 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So Shawn is the consensus goat on the ic? Foh Vince said it himself Austin is the greatest superstar of all time, he "changed" wrestling, was responsible for the greatest era in wwe history, was the biggest reason wwe survived the Monday night wars, and just took it to new levels from its struggletastic years when Shawn was on top

    This.

  • DOPEdweebz
    DOPEdweebz Members, Moderators, Writer Posts: 29,364 Regulator
    Stone Cold Steve Austin
    So Shawn is the consensus goat on the ic? Foh Vince said it himself Austin is the greatest superstar of all time, he "changed" wrestling, was responsible for the greatest era in wwe history, was the biggest reason wwe survived the Monday night wars, and just took it to new levels from its struggletastic years when Shawn was on top

    This.

    Facts.
  • genocidecutter
    genocidecutter Members Posts: 17,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HBK
    Bret Hart put over more people as champion than anybody
  • Peezy_Jenkins
    Peezy_Jenkins Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 33,205 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HBK
    i can see how owens losing to cena 3 times afterwards looks bad, but i say cena definitely put owens over, clean.

    key word clean here, but he's done that 3 times in the last 3 years, and tbh with you thats 3 more times than i would have expected 3 years ago.
  • blu197
    blu197 Members Posts: 6,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HBK
    i can see how owens losing to cena 3 times afterwards looks bad, but i say cena definitely put owens over, clean.

    key word clean here, but he's done that 3 times in the last 3 years, and tbh with you thats 3 more times than i would have expected 3 years ago.

    He lost to Owens clean, losing to somebody and putting someone over are two completely different things, the entire idea of putting over i'snt losing, its taking someone to a new level of credibility which cant happen simply in the course of one match, its not that Benoit just beat HHH, its that he did it continuously and was booked strong in the process, HHH did the same for Batista and Orton....

    The only reason Owens beat Cena is bc it's apart of Cenas gimmick to "overcome the odds" bc the E always wants him to be portrayed as the underdog when he's the exact opposite, Cena will lose one match (clean on rare occasion) in damn near every fued only to come back and squash the Heel in a Superman type fashion, then the Heel (especially if he's not a veteran) is lucky to come out of the feud with a crumb of credibility left, Cenas been doing the same ? since 2005
  • Peezy_Jenkins
    Peezy_Jenkins Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 33,205 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HBK
    i like how u change the meanings constantly to fit your agenda for hhh or against cena. apply the same narrative in that post to hhh and 85% of the ? u say hhh "put over" and your argument is gone. FOH
  • Peezy_Jenkins
    Peezy_Jenkins Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 33,205 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HBK
    apply that narrative to flair and ur ridiculous argument that he put no one over in his prime is also done
  • blu197
    blu197 Members Posts: 6,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HBK
    apply that narrative to flair and ur ridiculous argument that he put no one over in his prime is also done

    I stand by my Flair comments, yea Flair lost feuds (it's expected being Heel) and since he lost feuds you can say he made guys look good obviously, but he didn't make guys look good enough to carry the ball and be The guy..

    Flair in his prime (NWA days) isn't much different from Hogan, both would at times help elevate people for business but they would typically do that with wrestlers they knew wouldn't be a threat to them and that would return the favor (and more) down the road. Hogan just took it to another level but it's expected bc he was a greater Superstar than Flair, tbh if it wasn't for HHH and HBKs major love for Flair his legacy wouldn't be as overrated as it is today by the E...
  • Peezy_Jenkins
    Peezy_Jenkins Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 33,205 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2015
  • DOPEdweebz
    DOPEdweebz Members, Moderators, Writer Posts: 29,364 Regulator
    Stone Cold Steve Austin
    People forget the littke ? that put characters over. The inbetween segments that werent in the ring but at random areas. Stone Cold has a hilarious highlight reel of ? people forgot.
  • Mdizzle9000
    Mdizzle9000 Members, Writer Posts: 8,319 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stone Cold Steve Austin
    Stone Cold dominated the Attitude Era
    HBK dominated the ? era beforehand that lead to WCW becoming the top brand.

    Austin 3:16 says this thread is full of ?
  • PanchoYoSancho
    PanchoYoSancho Members Posts: 13,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HBK
    blu197 wrote: »
    jono wrote: »
    Flair? This ? just said RIC FLAIR don't put people over? The stylin and profilin, limousine ridin, jet flyin, WOOOOOOOOO Nature Boy?

    GTFOH

    You don't reach 16 World Titles but at the same time put over talent, that doesn't even make sense.. Flair in his older Ruthless Aggression WWE days put people over but not in his NWA,WWF and especially his WCW Four Horsemen days

    You don't lose a world title 16 Times by not putting people over.