Why do people call the devil a "thief, liar, and murderer"?

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  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zzombie wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    It's funny how the same people indoctrinated by biblical lore are unable to point to one instance in which the supposed Father of Lies has ever actually lied.

    A thief? The same people who sing "what ? has for me, it is for me" and mindlessly exclaim "? giveth ? taketh away" can't explain how the devil could ever possibly steal anything.

    Murderer? Which immortal being has control over life and death and inspires nations to go to war?

    You Christians are horribly confused. You give glory to your ? for your success and blame the devil for your failures, all the while claiming to have free will.

    The devil lies in the garden.

    thereby causing sin to be cast into man thereby creating the potential for murder, ? and all sort of evil.

    and any christian that blames the devil for them participating in those sins is in error.


    family-feud-x.jpg

    **Buzzer sound**

    WROOOOONG. The Bible ? admits to creating evil/calamity. TRY AGAIN

    Calamity is not evil. I've had this discussion with you at least twice already you hard headed idiot.

    There is a significant difference between evil and calamity. Evil is wickedness for wickedness sake it's pain and suffering created for no other intention other than to destroy while bringing pleasure to the one who creates it.

    Calamity is still evil fool! Misfortune and horror are all bad things ? . ? and genocides are all evil things but that's all a part of calamity too. Why create calamity if the Bible ? , who is all knowing and seeing allegedly, knows what was gonna happen with that.

    Don't get me started on what humans have done with "calamity", why create it in the first place. A ? like yours that creates misfortune and all the horrible things that calamity bring has to be evil, and for your Bible ? to admit that is beyond ridiculous.

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/calamity

    calamity

    noun ca·lam·i·ty \kə-ˈla-mə-tē\

    : an event that causes great harm and suffering

    You are the fool my friend, you gave the dictionary definition of EVIL but we are talking about religion and the religious definition of evil is not quite the same thing as we use in common language. IN your ignorant mind and i call you ignorant respectfully, you seem to think that pain, death and dying are evil you think that because something is bad or painful then it's evil but strictly religiously speaking this is not so.

    To you A beneficent ? maximizes pleasure and minimizes suffering. But any good parent or for that matter any bodybuilder will tell you that sometimes you have to maximize suffering and minimize pleasure to attain a beneficent outcome.

    let me say it again death,pain, suffering etc etc etc are not necessarily Evil.

    I actually gave you the definition of calamity in that post......see how similar it is to evil? You even confused it for the word evil lol

    And what parent would maximize suffering while raising a child? Only an abusive parent would do some ? like that. Bodybuilders need pain to get stronger, I know this as a weightlifter but I don't create misery for myself and others as I weightlift. You gave some terrible examples. If I want to punish my child, I won't amputate his arm off, for example.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2015
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    Good to see you still misquoting ? @kingblaze84 .

    How did I misquote anything...? Did I make anything up?

    Isaiah 45:7
    "7 I form the light and create darkness,
    I make peace and create calamity (evil in most Bibles);
    I, the LORD, do all these things.’"

    ALL THESE THINGS.....more proof the Bible ? is a demon. No coincidence it orders wholesale murders of many just for believing in other gods. As Christians did very well worldwide for a long time.



  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2015
    zzombie wrote: »
    And by the way ? never commands ? .

    That's debatable but the Bible ? clearly orders massive genocides for those who believe in other gods. The Bible ? claims it created calamity, so it more or less admits to creating ? or the idea of it.

    It's fascinating that Satan never once orders such massive destruction and wholesale murders. Also, it's very fascinating the Bible ? admits to deceiving and thereby LYING when it has to. Read thread title to get the irony.
  • zzombie
    zzombie Members Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zzombie wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    It's funny how the same people indoctrinated by biblical lore are unable to point to one instance in which the supposed Father of Lies has ever actually lied.

    A thief? The same people who sing "what ? has for me, it is for me" and mindlessly exclaim "? giveth ? taketh away" can't explain how the devil could ever possibly steal anything.

    Murderer? Which immortal being has control over life and death and inspires nations to go to war?

    You Christians are horribly confused. You give glory to your ? for your success and blame the devil for your failures, all the while claiming to have free will.

    The devil lies in the garden.

    thereby causing sin to be cast into man thereby creating the potential for murder, ? and all sort of evil.

    and any christian that blames the devil for them participating in those sins is in error.


    family-feud-x.jpg

    **Buzzer sound**

    WROOOOONG. The Bible ? admits to creating evil/calamity. TRY AGAIN

    Calamity is not evil. I've had this discussion with you at least twice already you hard headed idiot.

    There is a significant difference between evil and calamity. Evil is wickedness for wickedness sake it's pain and suffering created for no other intention other than to destroy while bringing pleasure to the one who creates it.

    Calamity is still evil fool! Misfortune and horror are all bad things ? . ? and genocides are all evil things but that's all a part of calamity too. Why create calamity if the Bible ? , who is all knowing and seeing allegedly, knows what was gonna happen with that.

    Don't get me started on what humans have done with "calamity", why create it in the first place. A ? like yours that creates misfortune and all the horrible things that calamity bring has to be evil, and for your Bible ? to admit that is beyond ridiculous.

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/calamity

    calamity

    noun ca·lam·i·ty \kə-ˈla-mə-tē\

    : an event that causes great harm and suffering

    You are the fool my friend, you gave the dictionary definition of EVIL but we are talking about religion and the religious definition of evil is not quite the same thing as we use in common language. IN your ignorant mind and i call you ignorant respectfully, you seem to think that pain, death and dying are evil you think that because something is bad or painful then it's evil but strictly religiously speaking this is not so.

    To you A beneficent ? maximizes pleasure and minimizes suffering. But any good parent or for that matter any bodybuilder will tell you that sometimes you have to maximize suffering and minimize pleasure to attain a beneficent outcome.

    let me say it again death,pain, suffering etc etc etc are not necessarily Evil.

    I actually gave you the definition of calamity in that post......see how similar it is to evil? You even confused it for the word evil lol

    And what parent would maximize suffering while raising a child? Only an abusive parent would do some ? like that. Bodybuilders need pain to get stronger, I know this as a weightlifter but I don't create misery for myself and others as I weightlift. You gave some terrible examples. If I want to punish my child, I won't amputate his arm off, for example.

    negrow it's not similar there is a difference, a major one between the meanings of those two words you are ignoring this because it would discredit your false points

    A parent that wants to strengthen his children sometimes has to make things hard for them so that they can grow you don't have children ( thank ? ) nor do you want any so i don't expect you to understand that. You are only about 157 pounds take more pain more misery of denial and you would get bigger and stronger.

    If you have to amputate your childs arm to save his head would you do it????
  • zzombie
    zzombie Members Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zzombie wrote: »
    And by the way ? never commands ? .

    That's debatable but the Bible ? clearly orders massive genocides for those who believe in other gods. The Bible ? claims it created calamity, so it more or less admits to creating ? or the idea of it.

    It's fascinating that Satan never once orders such massive destruction and wholesale murders. Also, it's very fascinating the Bible ? admits to deceiving and thereby LYING when it has to. Read thread title to get the irony.

    Yes genocide is ordered and for good reason , reasons that i have told you about many times before.

    Satan never has to order a ? thing or really do anything because just like a horrible parent he does not care about what his children do he does not seek to discipline them or teach them what they should know to keep themselves from harm.

    ? did not create ? do you know how ? stupid that sounds??? in the first place ? creating a calamity does not mean he creates all pain and suffering.
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ? is a manipulater, plain and simple

    if he knows all, does all, and everything is already "set in stone" because it's his, again, HIS , will.. Then it is him who moves the pawns on the chess board..

    I don't get how something positive is always "gods gift/will" but anything negative isn't, nah, you cannot pick and choose..

    Gods characteristics are easy to read. Take the story of Moses and the Pharoah. ? told Moses to ask Pharoah for the release of his people, but ? kept interfering and "hardening his heart", essentially, controlling him to not give the release.

    That's straight up ? .

    That in itself speaks volumes about what kind of being ? is.
  • zzombie
    zzombie Members Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    VIBE wrote: »
    ? is a manipulater, plain and simple

    if he knows all, does all, and everything is already "set in stone" because it's his, again, HIS , will.. Then it is him who moves the pawns on the chess board..

    I don't get how something positive is always "gods gift/will" but anything negative isn't, nah, you cannot pick and choose..

    Gods characteristics are easy to read. Take the story of Moses and the Pharoah. ? told Moses to ask Pharoah for the release of his people, but ? kept interfering and "hardening his heart", essentially, controlling him to not give the release.

    That's straight up ? .

    That in itself speaks volumes about what kind of being ? is.

    Everything is not set in stone @vibe ? hardened pharaohs heart to prove his glory to the rest of the world. And that's why hundreds of years after that was supposed to have happened we are still talking about it..

    But you are right ? is a manipulator but not of everything.
  • soul rattler
    soul rattler Members Posts: 18,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zzombie wrote: »
    you gave the dictionary definition of EVIL but we are talking about religion and the religious definition of evil is not quite the same thing as we use in common language.

    Christians stay doing this when it's convenient.
    zzombie wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    What lie was told in the garden of Eden?

    He told eve that if she at the fruit she would not certainly die and that she I.e we would know the difference between good and evil. This first statememt was a total lie and the second a half truth.

    1. Not only did she not immediately physically die, but, even as you have admitted , nobody ever really dies because of their souls and ? going to a different plane of existence.

    2. Eating the fruit enabled them to see their nakedness and ultimately empower their descendants to know right from wrong. The mental instability of men is completely the doing of G-d.

    3. Now that everyone has struck down your first example of the devil lying, what else you got?

    you really are of your father satan.

    1. In other threads i have said no one ever really dies BUT I WAS SPEAKING from ? 's perspective on mortal "death" but yes from our perspective people really do die. SO WHEN the devil told eve she would not die he clearly lied.

    2. Adam and eve already knew right from wrong

    3. you have struck down nothing and once again you show your ignorance.

    1. How do you the snake wasn't talking about spiritual death? So you can presume toknow your ? 's perspective on death but be oblivious to the snake's perspective?

    2. Adam and Eve knew to obey, the way a computer does. You tell it to do something, and it does so without question. G-d gave them a set of commands to follow, again, like a computer. But when they knowingly deviated from those commands, it was like ? Terminator: Rise of the Machines... Or iRobot... Or something.
  • soul rattler
    soul rattler Members Posts: 18,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zzombie wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    And by the way ? never commands ? .

    That's debatable but the Bible ? clearly orders massive genocides for those who believe in other gods. The Bible ? claims it created calamity, so it more or less admits to creating ? or the idea of it.

    It's fascinating that Satan never once orders such massive destruction and wholesale murders. Also, it's very fascinating the Bible ? admits to deceiving and thereby LYING when it has to. Read thread title to get the irony.

    Yes genocide is ordered and for good reason , reasons that i have told you about many times before.

    Satan never has to order a ? thing or really do anything because just like a horrible parent he does not care about what his children do he does not seek to discipline them or teach them what they should know to keep themselves from harm.

    ? did not create ? do you know how ? stupid that sounds??? in the first place ? creating a calamity does not mean he creates all pain and suffering.
    Let's say Satan WAS A father, which Satan isn't because the only immortal capable of creation in this imaginary set piece is G-d... Who should Satan take fathering advice from?

    The one who put an unnecessary temptation in front of the first humans ever, knowing they would fall for it, and consequently punish all of humanity to sin and physical death?

    The one who went through the trouble of creating Earth and allowing humans to populate it, only to wipe them all out by flooding the planet out of misplaced disappointment?

    The one who plans on wiping out the planet again in a series of sadistic and horrible events, as if the last two things listed weren't punishment enough?

    Yeah...if I had a choice between a dad who let me find my own way and a dad who beat the living ? outta me and had a convoluted plan to ? me years from now, I'd choose the former.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2015
    zzombie wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    And by the way ? never commands ? .

    That's debatable but the Bible ? clearly orders massive genocides for those who believe in other gods. The Bible ? claims it created calamity, so it more or less admits to creating ? or the idea of it.

    It's fascinating that Satan never once orders such massive destruction and wholesale murders. Also, it's very fascinating the Bible ? admits to deceiving and thereby LYING when it has to. Read thread title to get the irony.

    Yes genocide is ordered and for good reason , reasons that i have told you about many times before.

    Satan never has to order a ? thing or really do anything because just like a horrible parent he does not care about what his children do he does not seek to discipline them or teach them what they should know to keep themselves from harm.

    ? did not create ? do you know how ? stupid that sounds??? in the first place ? creating a calamity does not mean he creates all pain and suffering.

    Yes I know the pathetic reasons the Bible ? supported genocide in so many cases, many times for the simple reason people in a land worshipped other gods. There are a few stories in the Bible that ? supported slaughtering men, women and children because some people worshipped gods who demanded human sacrifices but why slaughter all of them? If the Bible ? was real, it would have not been a lazy ? and just shown itself and convince people to stop doing that.

    Instead, like the lazy ? it is, it ordered the wholesale slaughter of people who worshipped "incorrectly".

    You admit Satan never ordered such horrible actions, which is good. So why isn't your Bible ? considered the murderer and liar? It clearly is, anyone with a conscience and eyes can see that. Do you see why Americans are losing respect for your Bible and don't take it seriously anymore?
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2015
    VIBE wrote: »
    ? is a manipulater, plain and simple

    if he knows all, does all, and everything is already "set in stone" because it's his, again, HIS , will.. Then it is him who moves the pawns on the chess board..

    I don't get how something positive is always "gods gift/will" but anything negative isn't, nah, you cannot pick and choose..

    Gods characteristics are easy to read. Take the story of Moses and the Pharoah. ? told Moses to ask Pharoah for the release of his people, but ? kept interfering and "hardening his heart", essentially, controlling him to not give the release.

    That's straight up ? .

    That in itself speaks volumes about what kind of being ? is.

    Yeah, it's ridiculous. Everything is set in stone allegedly because ? knows what is going to happen before it happens, and at the same time does nothing about it while claiming it would protect its people. But tragedies happen anyway.

    It's why I've said for a long time now that if the Bible ? is real, it's an extremely evil being and lazy beyond belief. Not worthy of being called a ? , but a demonic beast, in all forms. I would say this to its face if it was real, but luckily for us all, the Bible/Abrahamic ? is make believe. Why harden the heart of an enemy lol, was the Bible ? playing both sides of the fence all along? Then it truly is a deceiver.
  • zzombie
    zzombie Members Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zzombie wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    And by the way ? never commands ? .

    That's debatable but the Bible ? clearly orders massive genocides for those who believe in other gods. The Bible ? claims it created calamity, so it more or less admits to creating ? or the idea of it.

    It's fascinating that Satan never once orders such massive destruction and wholesale murders. Also, it's very fascinating the Bible ? admits to deceiving and thereby LYING when it has to. Read thread title to get the irony.

    Yes genocide is ordered and for good reason , reasons that i have told you about many times before.

    Satan never has to order a ? thing or really do anything because just like a horrible parent he does not care about what his children do he does not seek to discipline them or teach them what they should know to keep themselves from harm.

    ? did not create ? do you know how ? stupid that sounds??? in the first place ? creating a calamity does not mean he creates all pain and suffering.

    Yes I know the pathetic reasons the Bible ? supported genocide in so many cases, many times for the simple reason people in a land worshipped other gods. There are a few stories in the Bible that ? supported slaughtering men, women and children because some people worshipped gods who demanded human sacrifices but why slaughter all of them? If the Bible ? was real, it would have not been a lazy ? and just shown itself and convince people to stop doing that.

    Instead, like the lazy ? it is, it ordered the wholesale slaughter of people who worshipped "incorrectly".

    You admit Satan never ordered such horrible actions, which is good. So why isn't your Bible ? considered the murderer and liar? It clearly is, anyone with a conscience and eyes can see that. Do you see why Americans are losing respect for your Bible and don't take it seriously anymore?

    I am on a phone so I won't go tear into all the ? you wrote in this post so I'll just answer say this ? actually did warn the people of Canaan before he used the Israelites to destroy them.

    ? is a killer not a murderer. As for Americans losing respect for Christianity that's just your delusions tomorrow there will by millions of Americans in church and most will have some level of faith
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zzombie wrote: »
    VIBE wrote: »
    ? is a manipulater, plain and simple

    if he knows all, does all, and everything is already "set in stone" because it's his, again, HIS , will.. Then it is him who moves the pawns on the chess board..

    I don't get how something positive is always "gods gift/will" but anything negative isn't, nah, you cannot pick and choose..

    Gods characteristics are easy to read. Take the story of Moses and the Pharoah. ? told Moses to ask Pharoah for the release of his people, but ? kept interfering and "hardening his heart", essentially, controlling him to not give the release.

    That's straight up ? .

    That in itself speaks volumes about what kind of being ? is.

    Everything is not set in stone @vibe ? hardened pharaohs heart to prove his glory to the rest of the world. And that's why hundreds of years after that was supposed to have happened we are still talking about it..

    But you are right ? is a manipulator but not of everything.

    Couldn't he show his glory afterwards? Moses and his people wandered the desert for 40 years, couldn't he have brought them rain (fresh water to drink and grow crops)? That's true glory over manipulating a situation that was clearly going ? 's way (asking for cooperation in the release of his people).

    I hate the cop out everyone gives to ? .

    If ? does it, it's his glory.

    If Satan does it, it's evil.

    If Satan had hardened the pharoahs heart, it would be used to show you how manipulative and easy it is for him to do such a thing to a believer.

    If ? does it, it's amazing. They never give thought to as if ? did it once to the Pharoah, what makes you think he wouldn't do it to others, including yourself?

    You're against certain things being pushed on people, such as ? marriage, but okay with ? pushing someone to do what they do not want to do?
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    VIBE wrote: »
    ? is a manipulater, plain and simple

    if he knows all, does all, and everything is already "set in stone" because it's his, again, HIS , will.. Then it is him who moves the pawns on the chess board..

    I don't get how something positive is always "gods gift/will" but anything negative isn't, nah, you cannot pick and choose..

    Gods characteristics are easy to read. Take the story of Moses and the Pharoah. ? told Moses to ask Pharoah for the release of his people, but ? kept interfering and "hardening his heart", essentially, controlling him to not give the release.

    That's straight up ? .

    That in itself speaks volumes about what kind of being ? is.

    Yeah, it's ridiculous. Everything is set in stone allegedly because ? knows what is going to happen before it happens, and at the same time does nothing about it while claiming it would protect its people. But tragedies happen anyway.

    It's why I've said for a long time now that if the Bible ? is real, it's an extremely evil being and lazy beyond belief. Not worthy of being called a ? , but a demonic beast, in all forms. I would say this to its face if it was real, but luckily for us all, the Bible/Abrahamic ? is make believe. Why harden the heart of an enemy lol, was the Bible ? playing both sides of the fence all along? Then it truly is a deceiver.

    Another decieving moment was when Moses was on the mountain praying/talking to ? and he had left Aaron in charge of watching over the people.

    In that time, Aaron had asked for everyone's gold and they smelted their gold to form a golden calf.

    Moses comes back and Aaron lies and says he tried to stop them. Moses goes back to discuss this with ? and ? commands him and Aaron to slaughter 3,000 of them for doing this.

    How in the ? is Aaron's wrongdoing, creating the false idol and lying, not even acknowledge by the all knowing being?

    ? like that is bothersome. But I'll leave it to these guys to scramble up some random explanation.
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zzombie wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    And by the way ? never commands ? .

    That's debatable but the Bible ? clearly orders massive genocides for those who believe in other gods. The Bible ? claims it created calamity, so it more or less admits to creating ? or the idea of it.

    It's fascinating that Satan never once orders such massive destruction and wholesale murders. Also, it's very fascinating the Bible ? admits to deceiving and thereby LYING when it has to. Read thread title to get the irony.

    Yes genocide is ordered and for good reason , reasons that i have told you about many times before.

    Satan never has to order a ? thing or really do anything because just like a horrible parent he does not care about what his children do he does not seek to discipline them or teach them what they should know to keep themselves from harm.

    ? did not create ? do you know how ? stupid that sounds??? in the first place ? creating a calamity does not mean he creates all pain and suffering.

    Yes I know the pathetic reasons the Bible ? supported genocide in so many cases, many times for the simple reason people in a land worshipped other gods. There are a few stories in the Bible that ? supported slaughtering men, women and children because some people worshipped gods who demanded human sacrifices but why slaughter all of them? If the Bible ? was real, it would have not been a lazy ? and just shown itself and convince people to stop doing that.

    Instead, like the lazy ? it is, it ordered the wholesale slaughter of people who worshipped "incorrectly".

    You admit Satan never ordered such horrible actions, which is good. So why isn't your Bible ? considered the murderer and liar? It clearly is, anyone with a conscience and eyes can see that. Do you see why Americans are losing respect for your Bible and don't take it seriously anymore?

    I am on a phone so I won't go tear into all the ? you wrote in this post so I'll just answer say this ? actually did warn the people of Canaan before he used the Israelites to destroy them.

    ? is a killer not a murderer. As for Americans losing respect for Christianity that's just your delusions tomorrow there will by millions of Americans in church and most will have some level of faith

    Imagine stripping away titles from the characters in the bible, mainly ? , Jesus and Satan.

    Imagine feeding people their characteristics.

    Then having a choice to choose between good, neutral and evil.

    Where do you think each character would fall under?

    ? would be labeled as evil.

    Satan as neutral.

    Jesus as good.

    The delusion is on the believer.
  • zzombie
    zzombie Members Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    VIBE wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    VIBE wrote: »
    ? is a manipulater, plain and simple

    if he knows all, does all, and everything is already "set in stone" because it's his, again, HIS , will.. Then it is him who moves the pawns on the chess board..

    I don't get how something positive is always "gods gift/will" but anything negative isn't, nah, you cannot pick and choose..

    Gods characteristics are easy to read. Take the story of Moses and the Pharoah. ? told Moses to ask Pharoah for the release of his people, but ? kept interfering and "hardening his heart", essentially, controlling him to not give the release.

    That's straight up ? .

    That in itself speaks volumes about what kind of being ? is.

    Everything is not set in stone @vibe ? hardened pharaohs heart to prove his glory to the rest of the world. And that's why hundreds of years after that was supposed to have happened we are still talking about it..

    But you are right ? is a manipulator but not of everything.

    Couldn't he show his glory afterwards? Moses and his people wandered the desert for 40 years, couldn't he have brought them rain (fresh water to drink and grow crops)? That's true glory over manipulating a situation that was clearly going ? 's way (asking for cooperation in the release of his people).

    I hate the cop out everyone gives to ? .

    If ? does it, it's his glory.

    If Satan does it, it's evil.

    If Satan had hardened the pharoahs heart, it would be used to show you how manipulative and easy it is for him to do such a thing to a believer.

    If ? does it, it's amazing. They never give thought to as if ? did it once to the Pharoah, what makes you think he wouldn't do it to others, including yourself?

    You're against certain things being pushed on people, such as ? marriage, but okay with ? pushing someone to do what they do not want to do?

    You really need to pick up a bible and read it.

    ? did give them water while they were lost he also gave them manna but instead of being humble and thankful they whined and complained like ? and despite all ? had done for them they still did a lot of nonsense so ? kept them in the wild until a few generations died off.

    What is good or what is evil is a question of intent not result. ? will cause you pain but his intent is not to cause you harm just for his sake or for his own pleasure. In a way i consider ? to be the ultimate utilitarian he does what is needed for the greater good.

    satan does what he does for selfish reasons ? is not doing anything he does just for him he's doing it for our good.
  • zzombie
    zzombie Members Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    VIBE wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    And by the way ? never commands ? .

    That's debatable but the Bible ? clearly orders massive genocides for those who believe in other gods. The Bible ? claims it created calamity, so it more or less admits to creating ? or the idea of it.

    It's fascinating that Satan never once orders such massive destruction and wholesale murders. Also, it's very fascinating the Bible ? admits to deceiving and thereby LYING when it has to. Read thread title to get the irony.

    Yes genocide is ordered and for good reason , reasons that i have told you about many times before.

    Satan never has to order a ? thing or really do anything because just like a horrible parent he does not care about what his children do he does not seek to discipline them or teach them what they should know to keep themselves from harm.

    ? did not create ? do you know how ? stupid that sounds??? in the first place ? creating a calamity does not mean he creates all pain and suffering.

    Yes I know the pathetic reasons the Bible ? supported genocide in so many cases, many times for the simple reason people in a land worshipped other gods. There are a few stories in the Bible that ? supported slaughtering men, women and children because some people worshipped gods who demanded human sacrifices but why slaughter all of them? If the Bible ? was real, it would have not been a lazy ? and just shown itself and convince people to stop doing that.

    Instead, like the lazy ? it is, it ordered the wholesale slaughter of people who worshipped "incorrectly".

    You admit Satan never ordered such horrible actions, which is good. So why isn't your Bible ? considered the murderer and liar? It clearly is, anyone with a conscience and eyes can see that. Do you see why Americans are losing respect for your Bible and don't take it seriously anymore?

    I am on a phone so I won't go tear into all the ? you wrote in this post so I'll just answer say this ? actually did warn the people of Canaan before he used the Israelites to destroy them.

    ? is a killer not a murderer. As for Americans losing respect for Christianity that's just your delusions tomorrow there will by millions of Americans in church and most will have some level of faith

    Imagine stripping away titles from the characters in the bible, mainly ? , Jesus and Satan.

    Imagine feeding people their characteristics.

    Then having a choice to choose between good, neutral and evil.

    Where do you think each character would fall under?

    ? would be labeled as evil.

    Satan as neutral.

    Jesus as good.

    The delusion is on the believer.

    You say ? would be labeled as evil because you don't understand what evil is.
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I know he gave them water and manna. I just mean for crop growing, to be self sustainable
  • zzombie
    zzombie Members Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    VIBE wrote: »
    I know he gave them water and manna. I just mean for crop growing, to be self sustainable

    If they became self sustainable because ? gave them crops to grow in the wild then they would not have wanted to move into the area ? promised to their forefathers.
  • zzombie
    zzombie Members Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ? also wanted israel in a particular area as a punishment for the Canaanites
  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    VIBE wrote: »
    They didn't know right from wrong. They just knew what was said.

    "Do not eat from this tree"

    Her response was more of a confused response to the serpent.

    It's like a child. They know what they're told but they don't truly have a grasp on what's really "right and wrong".

    If I tell my child not to do something but someone else convinces them otherwise because of certain "perks", then it sounds more enticing. They don't fully understand what the consequences are.

    ? was explicit, "do not eat from the tree or you will certainly die" but death doesn't exist at this point, right? Death only entered the world after Adam and Eve sinned, right? So how did Adam understand what death was?

    A child doesn't know what a fire does to you. A two year old will reach out for it only to get burnt/hurt, and will then understand what it is.

    It doesn't seem like anything was explained, just told.

    Right and wrong do not exist at this point. It may to ? , but to his creation it doesn't.

    I don't believe that the issue is really with whether Adam and Eve knew the difference between right and wrong. I believe the issue is whether or not Adam and Eve trusted ? . They have never had their faith challenged before because there wasn't any one before Satan to come along to tell them something other than what ? had said. They didn't know if they could take ? at His Word.
  • soul rattler
    soul rattler Members Posts: 18,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    alissowack wrote: »
    VIBE wrote: »
    They didn't know right from wrong. They just knew what was said.

    "Do not eat from this tree"

    Her response was more of a confused response to the serpent.

    It's like a child. They know what they're told but they don't truly have a grasp on what's really "right and wrong".

    If I tell my child not to do something but someone else convinces them otherwise because of certain "perks", then it sounds more enticing. They don't fully understand what the consequences are.

    ? was explicit, "do not eat from the tree or you will certainly die" but death doesn't exist at this point, right? Death only entered the world after Adam and Eve sinned, right? So how did Adam understand what death was?

    A child doesn't know what a fire does to you. A two year old will reach out for it only to get burnt/hurt, and will then understand what it is.

    It doesn't seem like anything was explained, just told.

    Right and wrong do not exist at this point. It may to ? , but to his creation it doesn't.

    I don't believe that the issue is really with whether Adam and Eve knew the difference between right and wrong. I believe the issue is whether or not Adam and Eve trusted ? . They have never had their faith challenged before because there wasn't any one before Satan to come along to tell them something other than what ? had said. They didn't know if they could take ? at His Word.

    Trust wasn't a factor, obedience was. They had no reason to trust G-d because there was no alternative to the reality provided for them.
  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    alissowack wrote: »
    VIBE wrote: »
    They didn't know right from wrong. They just knew what was said.

    "Do not eat from this tree"

    Her response was more of a confused response to the serpent.

    It's like a child. They know what they're told but they don't truly have a grasp on what's really "right and wrong".

    If I tell my child not to do something but someone else convinces them otherwise because of certain "perks", then it sounds more enticing. They don't fully understand what the consequences are.

    ? was explicit, "do not eat from the tree or you will certainly die" but death doesn't exist at this point, right? Death only entered the world after Adam and Eve sinned, right? So how did Adam understand what death was?

    A child doesn't know what a fire does to you. A two year old will reach out for it only to get burnt/hurt, and will then understand what it is.

    It doesn't seem like anything was explained, just told.

    Right and wrong do not exist at this point. It may to ? , but to his creation it doesn't.

    I don't believe that the issue is really with whether Adam and Eve knew the difference between right and wrong. I believe the issue is whether or not Adam and Eve trusted ? . They have never had their faith challenged before because there wasn't any one before Satan to come along to tell them something other than what ? had said. They didn't know if they could take ? at His Word.

    Trust wasn't a factor, obedience was. They had no reason to trust G-d because there was no alternative to the reality provided for them.

    Obedience involves trust in the one who gives the command. People don't just obey just because. After Satan convinced them otherwise, Adam and Eve didn't find ? trustworthy so they disobeyed.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2015
    zzombie wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    And by the way ? never commands ? .

    That's debatable but the Bible ? clearly orders massive genocides for those who believe in other gods. The Bible ? claims it created calamity, so it more or less admits to creating ? or the idea of it.

    It's fascinating that Satan never once orders such massive destruction and wholesale murders. Also, it's very fascinating the Bible ? admits to deceiving and thereby LYING when it has to. Read thread title to get the irony.

    Yes genocide is ordered and for good reason , reasons that i have told you about many times before.

    Satan never has to order a ? thing or really do anything because just like a horrible parent he does not care about what his children do he does not seek to discipline them or teach them what they should know to keep themselves from harm.

    ? did not create ? do you know how ? stupid that sounds??? in the first place ? creating a calamity does not mean he creates all pain and suffering.

    Yes I know the pathetic reasons the Bible ? supported genocide in so many cases, many times for the simple reason people in a land worshipped other gods. There are a few stories in the Bible that ? supported slaughtering men, women and children because some people worshipped gods who demanded human sacrifices but why slaughter all of them? If the Bible ? was real, it would have not been a lazy ? and just shown itself and convince people to stop doing that.

    Instead, like the lazy ? it is, it ordered the wholesale slaughter of people who worshipped "incorrectly".

    You admit Satan never ordered such horrible actions, which is good. So why isn't your Bible ? considered the murderer and liar? It clearly is, anyone with a conscience and eyes can see that. Do you see why Americans are losing respect for your Bible and don't take it seriously anymore?

    I am on a phone so I won't go tear into all the ? you wrote in this post so I'll just answer say this ? actually did warn the people of Canaan before he used the Israelites to destroy them.

    ? is a killer not a murderer. As for Americans losing respect for Christianity that's just your delusions tomorrow there will by millions of Americans in church and most will have some level of faith

    The Bible ? is not a murderer? It claims to have killed many people for the silliest reasons. For worshipping different gods, ordering the murder of children for the simple crime of disrespecting a parent, to even killing some people for complaining about how bread tastes. The Bible ? influenced other legendary murderers and genocidal maniacs like Columbus and Queen Isabella for a good reason, they all loved the Bible ? 's murderous, lying, and bloodthirsty ways.

    You want me to bring up Bible passages PROVING everything I am saying? I can make the Bible ? look even more evil then I am now. Remember that Bible passage in which the Bible ? killed 24K people just for worshipping Baal and having sex with Moabite women? HAHAHA, come on man, give me a ? challenge. The Bible ? is a SICK and twisted ? . If real, it is clearly a ? and NUTS.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2015
    VIBE wrote: »
    VIBE wrote: »
    ? is a manipulater, plain and simple

    if he knows all, does all, and everything is already "set in stone" because it's his, again, HIS , will.. Then it is him who moves the pawns on the chess board..

    I don't get how something positive is always "gods gift/will" but anything negative isn't, nah, you cannot pick and choose..

    Gods characteristics are easy to read. Take the story of Moses and the Pharoah. ? told Moses to ask Pharoah for the release of his people, but ? kept interfering and "hardening his heart", essentially, controlling him to not give the release.

    That's straight up ? .

    That in itself speaks volumes about what kind of being ? is.

    Yeah, it's ridiculous. Everything is set in stone allegedly because ? knows what is going to happen before it happens, and at the same time does nothing about it while claiming it would protect its people. But tragedies happen anyway.

    It's why I've said for a long time now that if the Bible ? is real, it's an extremely evil being and lazy beyond belief. Not worthy of being called a ? , but a demonic beast, in all forms. I would say this to its face if it was real, but luckily for us all, the Bible/Abrahamic ? is make believe. Why harden the heart of an enemy lol, was the Bible ? playing both sides of the fence all along? Then it truly is a deceiver.

    Another decieving moment was when Moses was on the mountain praying/talking to ? and he had left Aaron in charge of watching over the people.

    In that time, Aaron had asked for everyone's gold and they smelted their gold to form a golden calf.

    Moses comes back and Aaron lies and says he tried to stop them. Moses goes back to discuss this with ? and ? commands him and Aaron to slaughter 3,000 of them for doing this.

    How in the ? is Aaron's wrongdoing, creating the false idol and lying, not even acknowledge by the all knowing being?

    ? like that is bothersome. But I'll leave it to these guys to scramble up some random explanation.

    Exactly, the Bible ? is a hypocrite and full of ? . Why leave Aaron alive??? But 3,000 people have to be stabbed to death with swords to prove a point? All this for worshipping differently?

    I can see why American Christians felt it was perfectly fine to commit genocide against 100 million Native Americans, many Native Americans didn't believe in the Bible ? !!! I can also see why Christians committed genocide in Tazmania, many people there weren't Christian or believed in the Abrahamic ? .

    What a wonderful legacy the demonic Bible ? and his writings have left the world.