The "angel" Sammael and the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil
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soul rattler wrote: »Again, this confuses two completely different individuals.
The individual who fell from grace, the devil, didn't fall until after the universe was created. That includes man.
You want to suggest that Satan also fell from grace but reasonably understood the consequences of its actions? Problem with that is that Satan, being the logical entity that it is, would have rightly declined to further an unnecessary sequence of events which would lead to man's salvation. Either Satan had enmity with man or it didn't.
Either way, I see no mention of the serpent being anything more than a cunning creature existing in nature. The retcon in Revelations is just that, retcon.
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/pseudepigrapha/adamnev.htm
And she cried out and said: 'Woe unto thee, thou devil. Why dost thou attack us for no cause? What hast thou to do with us? What have we done to thee? for thou pursuest us with craft? Or why doth thy malice
3 assail us? Have we taken away thy glory and caused thee to be without honour? Why dost thou harry us, thou enemy (and persecute us) to the death in wickedness and envy?'
xii 1 And with a heavy sigh, the devil spake: 'O Adam! all my hostility, envy, and sorrow is for thee, since it is for thee that I have been expelled from my glory, which I possessed in the heavens
2 in the midst of the angels and for thee was I cast out in the earth.' Adam answered, 'What dost
3 thou tell me? What have I done to thee or what is my fault against thee? Seeing that thou hast received no harm or injury from us, why dost thou pursue us?'
xiii 1 The devil replied, 'Adam, what dost thou tell me? It is for thy sake that I have been hurled
2 from that place. When thou wast formed. I was hurled out of the presence of ? and banished from the company of the angels. When ? blew into thee the breath of life and thy face and likeness was made in the image of ? , Michael also brought thee and made (us) worship thee in the sight of ? ; and ? the Lord spake: Here is Adam. I have made thee in our image and likeness.'
xiv 1 And Michael went out and called all the angels saying:
'Worship the image of ? as the Lord ? hath commanded.'
And Michael himself worshipped first; then he called me and said: 'Worship the image of ?
3 the Lord.' And I answered, 'I have no (need) to worship Adam.' And since Michael kept urging me to worship, I said to him, 'Why dost thou urge me? I will not worship an inferior and younger being (than I). I am his senior in the Creation, before he was made was I already made. It is his duty to worship me.'
xv 1,2 When the angels, who were under me, heard this, they refused to worship him. And Michael saith, 'Worship the image of ? , but if thou wilt not worship him, the Lord ? will be wrath
3 with thee.' And I said, 'If He be wrath with me, I will set my seat above the stars of heaven and will be like the Highest.'
xvi 1 And ? the Lord was wrath with me and banished me and my angels from our glory; and on
2 thy account were we expelled from our abodes into this world and hurled on the earth. And
3 straightway we were overcome with grief, since we had been spoiled of so great glory. And we
4 were grieved when we saw thee in such joy and luxury. And with guile I cheated thy wife and caused thee to be expelled through her (doing) from thy joy and luxury, as I have been driven out of my glory.
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waterproof wrote: »Judge_Judah wrote: »waterproof wrote: »The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is not actually a tree it's satan........Tree also meansor described a Person in hebrew, Hebrew Strong is a great tool and learning and understanding Hebrew helps also
If this is going where I think you are...then that sounds like a Kabbalah lesson....
So if the tree isn't actually a tree and is Satan....what does this mean?...
5 For ? doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Gen 3:5-6
@Judge_Judah
Nowhere in ? 's Word does it say that Adam and Eve ate an apple!
Simply eating an apple does not do this to anyone! Fruit does not make one aware or conscious of whether they have clothes on or not.
8 And they heard the voice of the LORD ? walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD ? amongst the trees of the garden.
9 And the LORD ? called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
13 And the LORD ? said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled*1 me, and I did eat. (KJV)
In Strong's, #398 the term "eat" means to eat, also to lay. The term "touch" in Strong's is #5060 which means naga, to touch, also to have sexual intercourse. Both terms had and have sexual connotations to them.
Beguiled used in this text is the same as "seduced." Furthermore, Scripture says Cain "was of that wicked one" he was a son of Satan's through the seduction of Eve. The term "of" is the same that means offspring. Neither is Cain listed anywhere in the descendents of Adam which strongly indicates Cain was not his son. The official beginning of the wheat and the tares began with Eve. The wheat AND the tares.
The tree of knowledge was the means to sexual knowledge they received from Lucifer. Knowledge is to "know." Knowing means to perceive, experience, learn. It is also used as an euphemism of "to know someone" sexually as when Adam "knew" his wife. The terms eat, touch, and know are often used in Biblical lingo for sexual relations. Lucifer was the way of knowing good and evil. He was the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil because through him they would learn evil, they would perceive evil, and they would experience it.
Who was the tree of life in the Garden of Eden? Christ was. Who was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? Lucifer. How do we 'eat of the tree of life?" We commune with Him. We are never to commune with Lucifer, and in this instance he seduced Eve, impregnated her, and began his own genealogical offspring and seedline on this earth that is part of us today.
I agree with most of what you posted here except the underlined is a problem because scripture indicates that adam and eve already knew about sex before eve met the snake
28 And ? blessed them, and ? said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Now ? told them to multiply how do humans do that??? we have sex so the knowledge of sex could not have been what caused the fall. The line of cain was removed from the earth by the flood and in any case according to eve cain was given to her from the lord SO the whole cain being from lucifer thing does contradict scripture
4 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.
perhaps cain is not mentioned as being a generation of adam because the line of cain was removed and cain was basically banished. -
Most church pastors today will pull out Genesis 4:1 which reads, "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord."
There are many omissions and translation errors throughout the Bible. The Dead Sea Scrolls confirm that Genesis 4:1 was tampered with. In fact the passage should read:
And Adam knew his wife Eve, who was pregnant by Sammael (Satan), and she conceived and bare Cain, and he was like the heavenly beings, and not like the earthly beings, and she said, I have gotten a man from the angel of the Lord.
In the Aramaic Targum, pseudo-Jonathan, which shows us that Genesis 4:1 has obviously been tampered with at some point by these evil infiltrators. It should actually be read as follows;
And Adam knew his wife Eve, who was pregnant by Sammael (Satan), and she conceived and bare Cain, and he was like the heavenly beings, and not like the earthly beings, and she said, I have gotten a man from the angel of the Lord.
Lest there be any doubt in the readers mind as to the identity of Sammael in this passage, we read in The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, according to Jewish theology…the destroyer or angel of death appears under the name Sammael (i.e. the poison of ? ), who was once an arch-angel before the throne of ? , and who caused the serpent to tempt Eve. According to Weber, he is not to be distinguished from Satan.
Now we know that anything of the Lord is confirmed elsewhere. IF Cain was indeed Satan's son, we wouldn't have to count on just one passage to prove it.
In fact there are many:
I John 3:12 "Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his (half) brother.." Here the word "of" in Greek is #1537 in the Strong's Concordance. When used implying a person, it means "a son of or offspring."
Compare this with other translations:
The New Testament in Modern English: "We are none of us to have the spirit of Cain, who was a son of the devil.."
Living Bible: "We are not to be like Cain, who belonged to Satan.."
New English Bible: "..unlike Cain who was a child of the evil one.."
New Century Bible: "Do not be like Cain who belonged to the Evil One."
New Jerusalem Bible: "..not to be like Cain, who was from the Evil One.."
And the popular commentaries confirm the same thing:
The Wycliffe Bible Commentary page 1473: "He (Cain) is said to have belonged to the family of the wicked one."
Matthew Poole's Commentary on the Holy Bible, volume 3, page 936. "Which showed him (Cain) to be of that wicked one, of the serpent's seed: so early was such seed sown, and so ancient the enmity between seed and seed."
Matthew Henry's Commentary, volume 6 page 1077: "It showed that he (Cain) was as the firstborn of the serpent's seed.."
In John 8:44 Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees and proclaimed, 'Ye are of your father the devil.." The term "of" meaning generation, offspring. They were of the physical seed of their father the devil.
Trees are often used as metaphors in regards to people. Jesus was the "tree of life."
We also find:
Mat 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit. -
waterproof wrote: »Most church pastors today will pull out Genesis 4:1 which reads, "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord."
There are many omissions and translation errors throughout the Bible. The Dead Sea Scrolls confirm that Genesis 4:1 was tampered with. In fact the passage should read:
And Adam knew his wife Eve, who was pregnant by Sammael (Satan), and she conceived and bare Cain, and he was like the heavenly beings, and not like the earthly beings, and she said, I have gotten a man from the angel of the Lord.
In the Aramaic Targum, pseudo-Jonathan, which shows us that Genesis 4:1 has obviously been tampered with at some point by these evil infiltrators. It should actually be read as follows;
And Adam knew his wife Eve, who was pregnant by Sammael (Satan), and she conceived and bare Cain, and he was like the heavenly beings, and not like the earthly beings, and she said, I have gotten a man from the angel of the Lord.
Lest there be any doubt in the readers mind as to the identity of Sammael in this passage, we read in The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, according to Jewish theology…the destroyer or angel of death appears under the name Sammael (i.e. the poison of ? ), who was once an arch-angel before the throne of ? , and who caused the serpent to tempt Eve. According to Weber, he is not to be distinguished from Satan.
Now we know that anything of the Lord is confirmed elsewhere. IF Cain was indeed Satan's son, we wouldn't have to count on just one passage to prove it.
In fact there are many:
I John 3:12 "Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his (half) brother.." Here the word "of" in Greek is #1537 in the Strong's Concordance. When used implying a person, it means "a son of or offspring."
Compare this with other translations:
The New Testament in Modern English: "We are none of us to have the spirit of Cain, who was a son of the devil.."
Living Bible: "We are not to be like Cain, who belonged to Satan.."
New English Bible: "..unlike Cain who was a child of the evil one.."
New Century Bible: "Do not be like Cain who belonged to the Evil One."
New Jerusalem Bible: "..not to be like Cain, who was from the Evil One.."
And the popular commentaries confirm the same thing:
The Wycliffe Bible Commentary page 1473: "He (Cain) is said to have belonged to the family of the wicked one."
Matthew Poole's Commentary on the Holy Bible, volume 3, page 936. "Which showed him (Cain) to be of that wicked one, of the serpent's seed: so early was such seed sown, and so ancient the enmity between seed and seed."
Matthew Henry's Commentary, volume 6 page 1077: "It showed that he (Cain) was as the firstborn of the serpent's seed.."
In John 8:44 Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees and proclaimed, 'Ye are of your father the devil.." The term "of" meaning generation, offspring. They were of the physical seed of their father the devil.
Trees are often used as metaphors in regards to people. Jesus was the "tree of life."
We also find:
Mat 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit.
Can you kindly quote from the Aramaic targum to back your theory??? never mind I found it
GENESIS 4 (ONKELOS) — 1 And Adam knew Hava his wife, and she conceived, and gave birth to Kain; and she said, I have acquired the man from before the Lord. 2 And she added to give birth to his brother, Habel
GENESIS 4 (PAL) — 1 And Adam knew Hava his wife, who had desired the Angel; and she conceived, and bare Kain; and she said, I have acquired a man, the Angel of the Lord. 2 And she added to bear from her husband Adam his twin, even Habel.
Now in the (PAL) targum it says adam knew his wife and that she desired the angel it does not say they actually ? .
and it really does not matter if you are going to accept the targum you might as well accept the Talmud because they in essence were written by the same people.
Now if you put 1 john 3:12 in context with I think you'll get a different conculsion than cain being the literal physical son of the serpent
1John 3:10-12 (kjv)
10 In this the children of ? are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of ? , neither he that loveth not his brother.11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother.
The verse before 1 john 3:12 when read in context clearly indicates that the writer was speaking spiritually not genetically/physically. He is saying that cain was of the wicked one because he did unrighteousness which is a contrast to the children of ? being sons of ? because of our righteousness OTHER translations make this even more clear.
1 john 3: 10-12 (niv)
10 This is how we know who the children of ? are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not ? ’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.11 For this is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. 12 Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous.
This whole concept of there being A "seed" of the devil also seems to be out of line with scripture. Jesus does call the Pharisees children of the devil but was he speaking about their physical descent or spiritual??? he was speaking spiritually
37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to ? me, because you have no room for my word. 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.” 39 “Abraham is our father,” they answered. “If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do what Abraham did........
42 Jesus said to them, “If ? were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from ? . I have not come on my own; ? sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
in verse 37 jesus clearly indicates that the Pharisees are descendants of Abraham not the serpent, but in verse 38 and onward he calls them children on the devil and goes on tell them and us what makes you a child of Abraham vs a child of the devil and it's what you do in life and how you live it not your genetics. -
I don't accept the Talmud because it's not Hebrew, it was written by the Serpent Seed those that sit in Moses seat those who mixed with the descendant of Cain known as the Pharisee's and Sadduces so this is going to answer your John Questions.
Yes they are also Abraham Descendants also for Scripture says Abraham is gong to be Father of Many Nations, And they mixed in with Abraham children, Abraham had 8 son's and only Issac was the Promise seeds in which Israel came from and the Serpent seed intermingled with lived around the Hebrews also
this is all in Scripture in matter of fact Scriptures tells you about them and their genealogy also how they lived side by side with the hebrews how they learned Hebrew and the Torah and who they intermingled with, it's all in the scriptures.
when I get the chance i post scriptures that tells you, it's in my notes put up in a box -
look, i would never advise anyone to take everything in the OT literally, but if a talking snake is "a cunning creature existing in nature," well, hey, i want to know where this nature is.soul rattler wrote: »Either way, I see no mention of the serpent being anything more than a cunning creature existing in nature. The retcon in Revelations is just that, retcon.
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look, i would never advise anyone to take everything in the OT literally, but if a talking snake is "a cunning creature existing in nature," well, hey, i want to know where this nature is.soul rattler wrote: »Either way, I see no mention of the serpent being anything more than a cunning creature existing in nature. The retcon in Revelations is just that, retcon.
Are you really going to argue this? Genesis says the serpent was just a naturally cunning creature. Revelations implies it was the devil in disguise. -
So @cain is half angel or what?
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well, for starters, i don't care what Revelation (remember, no S) says because i'm not talking about that?soul rattler wrote: »Are you really going to argue this? Genesis says the serpent was just a naturally cunning creature. Revelations implies it was the devil in disguise.
second, did you miss this part?i would never advise anyone to take everything in the OT literally
third, so if you want to do that, Genesis says things like "the serpent said unto the woman" all the time. so either you shouldn't claim it's exactly like a snake in nature (because of the talking) or, better, yet, you should maybe not take Genesis literally.
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waterproof wrote: »I don't accept the Talmud because it's not Hebrew, it was written by the Serpent Seed those that sit in Moses seat those who mixed with the descendant of Cain known as the Pharisee's and Sadduces so this is going to answer your John Questions.
Yes they are also Abraham Descendants also for Scripture says Abraham is gong to be Father of Many Nations, And they mixed in with Abraham children, Abraham had 8 son's and only Issac was the Promise seeds in which Israel came from and the Serpent seed intermingled with lived around the Hebrews also
this is all in Scripture in matter of fact Scriptures tells you about them and their genealogy also how they lived side by side with the hebrews how they learned Hebrew and the Torah and who they intermingled with, it's all in the scriptures.
when I get the chance i post scriptures that tells you, it's in my notes put up in a box
the people who wrote the targum were also Pharisees and the line of cain was washed from the earth before the birth of Abraham who was a descendant of seth. -
well, for starters, i don't care what Revelation (remember, no S) says because i'm not talking about that?soul rattler wrote: »Are you really going to argue this? Genesis says the serpent was just a naturally cunning creature. Revelations implies it was the devil in disguise.
second, did you miss this part?i would never advise anyone to take everything in the OT literally
third, so if you want to do that, Genesis says things like "the serpent said unto the woman" all the time. so either you shouldn't claim it's exactly like a snake in nature (because of the talking) or, better, yet, you should maybe not take Genesis literally.
You are entirely missing my point, so much that you don't seem to have one yourself. Now that I think about it, we've come to this impasse before. You came into a discussion already underway about things described in the bible and start suggesting that it not be taken literally.
If that's you're view, then there's nothing else for you to say here because whether it's Genesis or Revelations (Yes, it's relevant because that mention of the "ancient serpent" is the reason why people believe the devil and the serpent in Eden to be one and the same), the bottom line is that SOMETHING happened involving SOMEONE.
The question I pose is, was the serpent in the garden the devil, Lucifer, Satan, or just a plain old serpent? Literally or metaphorically, the question still stands. -
Judge_Judah wrote: »soul rattler wrote: »Again, this confuses two completely different individuals.
The individual who fell from grace, the devil, didn't fall until after the universe was created. That includes man.
You want to suggest that Satan also fell from grace but reasonably understood the consequences of its actions? Problem with that is that Satan, being the logical entity that it is, would have rightly declined to further an unnecessary sequence of events which would lead to man's salvation. Either Satan had enmity with man or it didn't.
Either way, I see no mention of the serpent being anything more than a cunning creature existing in nature. The retcon in Revelations is just that, retcon.
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/pseudepigrapha/adamnev.htm
And she cried out and said: 'Woe unto thee, thou devil. Why dost thou attack us for no cause? What hast thou to do with us? What have we done to thee? for thou pursuest us with craft? Or why doth thy malice
3 assail us? Have we taken away thy glory and caused thee to be without honour? Why dost thou harry us, thou enemy (and persecute us) to the death in wickedness and envy?'
xii 1 And with a heavy sigh, the devil spake: 'O Adam! all my hostility, envy, and sorrow is for thee, since it is for thee that I have been expelled from my glory, which I possessed in the heavens
2 in the midst of the angels and for thee was I cast out in the earth.' Adam answered, 'What dost
3 thou tell me? What have I done to thee or what is my fault against thee? Seeing that thou hast received no harm or injury from us, why dost thou pursue us?'
xiii 1 The devil replied, 'Adam, what dost thou tell me? It is for thy sake that I have been hurled
2 from that place. When thou wast formed. I was hurled out of the presence of ? and banished from the company of the angels. When ? blew into thee the breath of life and thy face and likeness was made in the image of ? , Michael also brought thee and made (us) worship thee in the sight of ? ; and ? the Lord spake: Here is Adam. I have made thee in our image and likeness.'
xiv 1 And Michael went out and called all the angels saying:
'Worship the image of ? as the Lord ? hath commanded.'
And Michael himself worshipped first; then he called me and said: 'Worship the image of ?
3 the Lord.' And I answered, 'I have no (need) to worship Adam.' And since Michael kept urging me to worship, I said to him, 'Why dost thou urge me? I will not worship an inferior and younger being (than I). I am his senior in the Creation, before he was made was I already made. It is his duty to worship me.'
xv 1,2 When the angels, who were under me, heard this, they refused to worship him. And Michael saith, 'Worship the image of ? , but if thou wilt not worship him, the Lord ? will be wrath
3 with thee.' And I said, 'If He be wrath with me, I will set my seat above the stars of heaven and will be like the Highest.'
xvi 1 And ? the Lord was wrath with me and banished me and my angels from our glory; and on
2 thy account were we expelled from our abodes into this world and hurled on the earth. And
3 straightway we were overcome with grief, since we had been spoiled of so great glory. And we
4 were grieved when we saw thee in such joy and luxury. And with guile I cheated thy wife and caused thee to be expelled through her (doing) from thy joy and luxury, as I have been driven out of my glory.
Wow. Let the Devil tell it, He got kicked out for keeping ? 's 1st and 2nd commandment. Based on His story could any of us say that we would have done differently...?
Back to the op, Are you saying that the Sammael's works are the beginning of the "wheat and tares"? and also he's the gaurdian of "esau"?
Spoken plainly, are you suggesting that white people are protected by one of the chief satanic angels? -
perhaps i have but one point and one point alone: why must everyone insist on taking the OT so literally.soul rattler wrote: »You are entirely missing my point, so much that you don't seem to have one yourself.
not sure why you bolded the S, since the Book of Revelation is not plural. if you're going to lecture people on the fine points of Biblical knowledge, well...soul rattler wrote: »If that's you're view, then there's nothing else for you to say here because whether it's Genesis or Revelations
well, it's not a plain old serpent if it's talking and you're taking it literally. and if it's a metaphor, it seems like "it's just a plain old serpent" wouldn't truly answer what it is. looks like that's the part i am talking about?soul rattler wrote: »The question I pose is, was the serpent in the garden the devil, Lucifer, Satan, or just a plain old serpent? Literally or metaphorically, the question still stands. -
NeighborhoodNomad. wrote: »Judge_Judah wrote: »soul rattler wrote: »Again, this confuses two completely different individuals.
The individual who fell from grace, the devil, didn't fall until after the universe was created. That includes man.
You want to suggest that Satan also fell from grace but reasonably understood the consequences of its actions? Problem with that is that Satan, being the logical entity that it is, would have rightly declined to further an unnecessary sequence of events which would lead to man's salvation. Either Satan had enmity with man or it didn't.
Either way, I see no mention of the serpent being anything more than a cunning creature existing in nature. The retcon in Revelations is just that, retcon.
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/pseudepigrapha/adamnev.htm
And she cried out and said: 'Woe unto thee, thou devil. Why dost thou attack us for no cause? What hast thou to do with us? What have we done to thee? for thou pursuest us with craft? Or why doth thy malice
3 assail us? Have we taken away thy glory and caused thee to be without honour? Why dost thou harry us, thou enemy (and persecute us) to the death in wickedness and envy?'
xii 1 And with a heavy sigh, the devil spake: 'O Adam! all my hostility, envy, and sorrow is for thee, since it is for thee that I have been expelled from my glory, which I possessed in the heavens
2 in the midst of the angels and for thee was I cast out in the earth.' Adam answered, 'What dost
3 thou tell me? What have I done to thee or what is my fault against thee? Seeing that thou hast received no harm or injury from us, why dost thou pursue us?'
xiii 1 The devil replied, 'Adam, what dost thou tell me? It is for thy sake that I have been hurled
2 from that place. When thou wast formed. I was hurled out of the presence of ? and banished from the company of the angels. When ? blew into thee the breath of life and thy face and likeness was made in the image of ? , Michael also brought thee and made (us) worship thee in the sight of ? ; and ? the Lord spake: Here is Adam. I have made thee in our image and likeness.'
xiv 1 And Michael went out and called all the angels saying:
'Worship the image of ? as the Lord ? hath commanded.'
And Michael himself worshipped first; then he called me and said: 'Worship the image of ?
3 the Lord.' And I answered, 'I have no (need) to worship Adam.' And since Michael kept urging me to worship, I said to him, 'Why dost thou urge me? I will not worship an inferior and younger being (than I). I am his senior in the Creation, before he was made was I already made. It is his duty to worship me.'
xv 1,2 When the angels, who were under me, heard this, they refused to worship him. And Michael saith, 'Worship the image of ? , but if thou wilt not worship him, the Lord ? will be wrath
3 with thee.' And I said, 'If He be wrath with me, I will set my seat above the stars of heaven and will be like the Highest.'
xvi 1 And ? the Lord was wrath with me and banished me and my angels from our glory; and on
2 thy account were we expelled from our abodes into this world and hurled on the earth. And
3 straightway we were overcome with grief, since we had been spoiled of so great glory. And we
4 were grieved when we saw thee in such joy and luxury. And with guile I cheated thy wife and caused thee to be expelled through her (doing) from thy joy and luxury, as I have been driven out of my glory.
Wow. Let the Devil tell it, He got kicked out for keeping ? 's 1st and 2nd commandment. Based on His story could any of us say that we would have done differently...?
Back to the op, Are you saying that the Sammael's works are the beginning of the "wheat and tares"? and also he's the gaurdian of "esau"?
Spoken plainly, are you suggesting that white people are protected by one of the chief satanic angels?
Some of there "apocryphal" books are interesting.....
I made this thread to show the reach that evil has. If the story is correct in 4 Baruch, then these fallen have a lot more power than we have been lead to believe.
And as far as Esau being protected, yes. But I don't look at it as a black/white thing deep down. On the surface, there is a bloodline being preserved on this earth for a reason. The way the so called "royal families" of the earth practice that is not by coincidence. This is important when you start examining the moves certain groups of people make. So basically, a remnant of the seed of Esau has been fighting against the descendants of his brother Jacob because he is jealous of the birthright and blessings he got from him. Its all in Genesis 27.
I dont believe that some white people come from Edom. But there are some that may not be apart of that fold. Just like all black people are not the descendants of Jacob. You are what your father is.
Everyone has a chance at redemption however. And that is the most important point. I just bring up things like this in the hopes of tearing down some of the lies told. But with the state of the world and who is and has been in control for a good while now, these make a lot more sense.....
-
^^^
2 Esdras 6:7-9[7] I answered and said, "What will be the dividing of the times? Or when will be the end of the first age and the beginning of the age that follows?"
[8] He said to me, "From Abraham to Isaac, because from him were born Jacob and Esau, for Jacob's hand held Esau's heel from the beginning.
[9] For Esau is the end of this age, and Jacob is the beginning of the age that follows
Revelation 2:9I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Obadiah 1:1-8
1 The vision of Obadiah. Thus saith the Lord ? concerning Edom; We have heard a rumour from the Lord, and an ambassador is sent among the heathen, Arise ye, and let us rise up against her in battle. 2 Behold, I have made thee small among the heathen: thou art greatly despised. 3 The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high; that saith in his heart, Who shall bring me down to the ground? 4 Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest among the stars, thence will I bring thee down, saith the Lord. 5 If thieves came to thee, if robbers by night, (how art thou cut off!) would they not have stolen till they had enough? if the grapegatherers came to thee, would they not leave some grapes? 6 How are the things of Esau searched out! how are his hidden things sought up! 7 All the men of thy confederacy have brought thee even to the border: the men that were at peace with thee have deceived thee, and prevailed against thee; they that eat thy bread have laid a wound under thee: there is none understanding in him. 8 Shall I not in that day, saith the Lord, even destroy the wise men out of Edom, and understanding out of the mount of Esau?
Amos 9:1-158 Behold, the eyes of the Lord ? are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the Lord. 9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth. 10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us. 11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old: 12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the Lord that doeth this. 13 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt. 14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. 15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the Lord thy ? . -
Judge_Judah wrote: »NeighborhoodNomad. wrote: »Judge_Judah wrote: »soul rattler wrote: »Again, this confuses two completely different individuals.
The individual who fell from grace, the devil, didn't fall until after the universe was created. That includes man.
You want to suggest that Satan also fell from grace but reasonably understood the consequences of its actions? Problem with that is that Satan, being the logical entity that it is, would have rightly declined to further an unnecessary sequence of events which would lead to man's salvation. Either Satan had enmity with man or it didn't.
Either way, I see no mention of the serpent being anything more than a cunning creature existing in nature. The retcon in Revelations is just that, retcon.
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/pseudepigrapha/adamnev.htm
And she cried out and said: 'Woe unto thee, thou devil. Why dost thou attack us for no cause? What hast thou to do with us? What have we done to thee? for thou pursuest us with craft? Or why doth thy malice
3 assail us? Have we taken away thy glory and caused thee to be without honour? Why dost thou harry us, thou enemy (and persecute us) to the death in wickedness and envy?'
xii 1 And with a heavy sigh, the devil spake: 'O Adam! all my hostility, envy, and sorrow is for thee, since it is for thee that I have been expelled from my glory, which I possessed in the heavens
2 in the midst of the angels and for thee was I cast out in the earth.' Adam answered, 'What dost
3 thou tell me? What have I done to thee or what is my fault against thee? Seeing that thou hast received no harm or injury from us, why dost thou pursue us?'
xiii 1 The devil replied, 'Adam, what dost thou tell me? It is for thy sake that I have been hurled
2 from that place. When thou wast formed. I was hurled out of the presence of ? and banished from the company of the angels. When ? blew into thee the breath of life and thy face and likeness was made in the image of ? , Michael also brought thee and made (us) worship thee in the sight of ? ; and ? the Lord spake: Here is Adam. I have made thee in our image and likeness.'
xiv 1 And Michael went out and called all the angels saying:
'Worship the image of ? as the Lord ? hath commanded.'
And Michael himself worshipped first; then he called me and said: 'Worship the image of ?
3 the Lord.' And I answered, 'I have no (need) to worship Adam.' And since Michael kept urging me to worship, I said to him, 'Why dost thou urge me? I will not worship an inferior and younger being (than I). I am his senior in the Creation, before he was made was I already made. It is his duty to worship me.'
xv 1,2 When the angels, who were under me, heard this, they refused to worship him. And Michael saith, 'Worship the image of ? , but if thou wilt not worship him, the Lord ? will be wrath
3 with thee.' And I said, 'If He be wrath with me, I will set my seat above the stars of heaven and will be like the Highest.'
xvi 1 And ? the Lord was wrath with me and banished me and my angels from our glory; and on
2 thy account were we expelled from our abodes into this world and hurled on the earth. And
3 straightway we were overcome with grief, since we had been spoiled of so great glory. And we
4 were grieved when we saw thee in such joy and luxury. And with guile I cheated thy wife and caused thee to be expelled through her (doing) from thy joy and luxury, as I have been driven out of my glory.
Wow. Let the Devil tell it, He got kicked out for keeping ? 's 1st and 2nd commandment. Based on His story could any of us say that we would have done differently...?
Back to the op, Are you saying that the Sammael's works are the beginning of the "wheat and tares"? and also he's the gaurdian of "esau"?
Spoken plainly, are you suggesting that white people are protected by one of the chief satanic angels?
Some of there "apocryphal" books are interesting.....
I made this thread to show the reach that evil has. If the story is correct in 4 Baruch, then these fallen have a lot more power than we have been lead to believe.
And as far as Esau being protected, yes. But I don't look at it as a black/white thing deep down. On the surface, there is a bloodline being preserved on this earth for a reason. The way the so called "royal families" of the earth practice that is not by coincidence. This is important when you start examining the moves certain groups of people make. So basically, a remnant of the seed of Esau has been fighting against the descendants of his brother Jacob because he is jealous of the birthright and blessings he got from him. Its all in Genesis 27.
I dont believe that some white people come from Edom. But there are some that may not be apart of that fold. Just like all black people are not the descendants of Jacob. You are what your father is.
Everyone has a chance at redemption however. And that is the most important point. I just bring up things like this in the hopes of tearing down some of the lies told. But with the state of the world and who is and has been in control for a good while now, these make a lot more sense.....
This is what I was attempting to showcase with the "Across cultures" thread, but you articulated it better in here.
-
Judge_Judah wrote: »NeighborhoodNomad. wrote: »Judge_Judah wrote: »soul rattler wrote: »Again, this confuses two completely different individuals.
The individual who fell from grace, the devil, didn't fall until after the universe was created. That includes man.
You want to suggest that Satan also fell from grace but reasonably understood the consequences of its actions? Problem with that is that Satan, being the logical entity that it is, would have rightly declined to further an unnecessary sequence of events which would lead to man's salvation. Either Satan had enmity with man or it didn't.
Either way, I see no mention of the serpent being anything more than a cunning creature existing in nature. The retcon in Revelations is just that, retcon.
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/pseudepigrapha/adamnev.htm
And she cried out and said: 'Woe unto thee, thou devil. Why dost thou attack us for no cause? What hast thou to do with us? What have we done to thee? for thou pursuest us with craft? Or why doth thy malice
3 assail us? Have we taken away thy glory and caused thee to be without honour? Why dost thou harry us, thou enemy (and persecute us) to the death in wickedness and envy?'
xii 1 And with a heavy sigh, the devil spake: 'O Adam! all my hostility, envy, and sorrow is for thee, since it is for thee that I have been expelled from my glory, which I possessed in the heavens
2 in the midst of the angels and for thee was I cast out in the earth.' Adam answered, 'What dost
3 thou tell me? What have I done to thee or what is my fault against thee? Seeing that thou hast received no harm or injury from us, why dost thou pursue us?'
xiii 1 The devil replied, 'Adam, what dost thou tell me? It is for thy sake that I have been hurled
2 from that place. When thou wast formed. I was hurled out of the presence of ? and banished from the company of the angels. When ? blew into thee the breath of life and thy face and likeness was made in the image of ? , Michael also brought thee and made (us) worship thee in the sight of ? ; and ? the Lord spake: Here is Adam. I have made thee in our image and likeness.'
xiv 1 And Michael went out and called all the angels saying:
'Worship the image of ? as the Lord ? hath commanded.'
And Michael himself worshipped first; then he called me and said: 'Worship the image of ?
3 the Lord.' And I answered, 'I have no (need) to worship Adam.' And since Michael kept urging me to worship, I said to him, 'Why dost thou urge me? I will not worship an inferior and younger being (than I). I am his senior in the Creation, before he was made was I already made. It is his duty to worship me.'
xv 1,2 When the angels, who were under me, heard this, they refused to worship him. And Michael saith, 'Worship the image of ? , but if thou wilt not worship him, the Lord ? will be wrath
3 with thee.' And I said, 'If He be wrath with me, I will set my seat above the stars of heaven and will be like the Highest.'
xvi 1 And ? the Lord was wrath with me and banished me and my angels from our glory; and on
2 thy account were we expelled from our abodes into this world and hurled on the earth. And
3 straightway we were overcome with grief, since we had been spoiled of so great glory. And we
4 were grieved when we saw thee in such joy and luxury. And with guile I cheated thy wife and caused thee to be expelled through her (doing) from thy joy and luxury, as I have been driven out of my glory.
Wow. Let the Devil tell it, He got kicked out for keeping ? 's 1st and 2nd commandment. Based on His story could any of us say that we would have done differently...?
Back to the op, Are you saying that the Sammael's works are the beginning of the "wheat and tares"? and also he's the gaurdian of "esau"?
Spoken plainly, are you suggesting that white people are protected by one of the chief satanic angels?
Some of there "apocryphal" books are interesting.....
I made this thread to show the reach that evil has. If the story is correct in 4 Baruch, then these fallen have a lot more power than we have been lead to believe.
And as far as Esau being protected, yes. But I don't look at it as a black/white thing deep down. On the surface, there is a bloodline being preserved on this earth for a reason. The way the so called "royal families" of the earth practice that is not by coincidence. This is important when you start examining the moves certain groups of people make. So basically, a remnant of the seed of Esau has been fighting against the descendants of his brother Jacob because he is jealous of the birthright and blessings he got from him. Its all in Genesis 27.
I dont believe that some white people come from Edom. But there are some that may not be apart of that fold. Just like all black people are not the descendants of Jacob. You are what your father is.
Everyone has a chance at redemption however. And that is the most important point. I just bring up things like this in the hopes of tearing down some of the lies told. But with the state of the world and who is and has been in control for a good while now, these make a lot more sense.....
This is what I was attempting to showcase with the "Across cultures" thread, but you articulated it better in here.
I think I missed that thread. Do you have a link? -
Judge_Judah wrote: »Judge_Judah wrote: »NeighborhoodNomad. wrote: »Judge_Judah wrote: »soul rattler wrote: »Again, this confuses two completely different individuals.
The individual who fell from grace, the devil, didn't fall until after the universe was created. That includes man.
You want to suggest that Satan also fell from grace but reasonably understood the consequences of its actions? Problem with that is that Satan, being the logical entity that it is, would have rightly declined to further an unnecessary sequence of events which would lead to man's salvation. Either Satan had enmity with man or it didn't.
Either way, I see no mention of the serpent being anything more than a cunning creature existing in nature. The retcon in Revelations is just that, retcon.
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/pseudepigrapha/adamnev.htm
And she cried out and said: 'Woe unto thee, thou devil. Why dost thou attack us for no cause? What hast thou to do with us? What have we done to thee? for thou pursuest us with craft? Or why doth thy malice
3 assail us? Have we taken away thy glory and caused thee to be without honour? Why dost thou harry us, thou enemy (and persecute us) to the death in wickedness and envy?'
xii 1 And with a heavy sigh, the devil spake: 'O Adam! all my hostility, envy, and sorrow is for thee, since it is for thee that I have been expelled from my glory, which I possessed in the heavens
2 in the midst of the angels and for thee was I cast out in the earth.' Adam answered, 'What dost
3 thou tell me? What have I done to thee or what is my fault against thee? Seeing that thou hast received no harm or injury from us, why dost thou pursue us?'
xiii 1 The devil replied, 'Adam, what dost thou tell me? It is for thy sake that I have been hurled
2 from that place. When thou wast formed. I was hurled out of the presence of ? and banished from the company of the angels. When ? blew into thee the breath of life and thy face and likeness was made in the image of ? , Michael also brought thee and made (us) worship thee in the sight of ? ; and ? the Lord spake: Here is Adam. I have made thee in our image and likeness.'
xiv 1 And Michael went out and called all the angels saying:
'Worship the image of ? as the Lord ? hath commanded.'
And Michael himself worshipped first; then he called me and said: 'Worship the image of ?
3 the Lord.' And I answered, 'I have no (need) to worship Adam.' And since Michael kept urging me to worship, I said to him, 'Why dost thou urge me? I will not worship an inferior and younger being (than I). I am his senior in the Creation, before he was made was I already made. It is his duty to worship me.'
xv 1,2 When the angels, who were under me, heard this, they refused to worship him. And Michael saith, 'Worship the image of ? , but if thou wilt not worship him, the Lord ? will be wrath
3 with thee.' And I said, 'If He be wrath with me, I will set my seat above the stars of heaven and will be like the Highest.'
xvi 1 And ? the Lord was wrath with me and banished me and my angels from our glory; and on
2 thy account were we expelled from our abodes into this world and hurled on the earth. And
3 straightway we were overcome with grief, since we had been spoiled of so great glory. And we
4 were grieved when we saw thee in such joy and luxury. And with guile I cheated thy wife and caused thee to be expelled through her (doing) from thy joy and luxury, as I have been driven out of my glory.
Wow. Let the Devil tell it, He got kicked out for keeping ? 's 1st and 2nd commandment. Based on His story could any of us say that we would have done differently...?
Back to the op, Are you saying that the Sammael's works are the beginning of the "wheat and tares"? and also he's the gaurdian of "esau"?
Spoken plainly, are you suggesting that white people are protected by one of the chief satanic angels?
Some of there "apocryphal" books are interesting.....
I made this thread to show the reach that evil has. If the story is correct in 4 Baruch, then these fallen have a lot more power than we have been lead to believe.
And as far as Esau being protected, yes. But I don't look at it as a black/white thing deep down. On the surface, there is a bloodline being preserved on this earth for a reason. The way the so called "royal families" of the earth practice that is not by coincidence. This is important when you start examining the moves certain groups of people make. So basically, a remnant of the seed of Esau has been fighting against the descendants of his brother Jacob because he is jealous of the birthright and blessings he got from him. Its all in Genesis 27.
I dont believe that some white people come from Edom. But there are some that may not be apart of that fold. Just like all black people are not the descendants of Jacob. You are what your father is.
Everyone has a chance at redemption however. And that is the most important point. I just bring up things like this in the hopes of tearing down some of the lies told. But with the state of the world and who is and has been in control for a good while now, these make a lot more sense.....
This is what I was attempting to showcase with the "Across cultures" thread, but you articulated it better in here.
I think I missed that thread. Do you have a link?
http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/533093/across-cultures-darker-people-suffer-most-why#latest -
Judge_Judah wrote: »Judge_Judah wrote: »NeighborhoodNomad. wrote: »Judge_Judah wrote: »soul rattler wrote: »Again, this confuses two completely different individuals.
The individual who fell from grace, the devil, didn't fall until after the universe was created. That includes man.
You want to suggest that Satan also fell from grace but reasonably understood the consequences of its actions? Problem with that is that Satan, being the logical entity that it is, would have rightly declined to further an unnecessary sequence of events which would lead to man's salvation. Either Satan had enmity with man or it didn't.
Either way, I see no mention of the serpent being anything more than a cunning creature existing in nature. The retcon in Revelations is just that, retcon.
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/pseudepigrapha/adamnev.htm
And she cried out and said: 'Woe unto thee, thou devil. Why dost thou attack us for no cause? What hast thou to do with us? What have we done to thee? for thou pursuest us with craft? Or why doth thy malice
3 assail us? Have we taken away thy glory and caused thee to be without honour? Why dost thou harry us, thou enemy (and persecute us) to the death in wickedness and envy?'
xii 1 And with a heavy sigh, the devil spake: 'O Adam! all my hostility, envy, and sorrow is for thee, since it is for thee that I have been expelled from my glory, which I possessed in the heavens
2 in the midst of the angels and for thee was I cast out in the earth.' Adam answered, 'What dost
3 thou tell me? What have I done to thee or what is my fault against thee? Seeing that thou hast received no harm or injury from us, why dost thou pursue us?'
xiii 1 The devil replied, 'Adam, what dost thou tell me? It is for thy sake that I have been hurled
2 from that place. When thou wast formed. I was hurled out of the presence of ? and banished from the company of the angels. When ? blew into thee the breath of life and thy face and likeness was made in the image of ? , Michael also brought thee and made (us) worship thee in the sight of ? ; and ? the Lord spake: Here is Adam. I have made thee in our image and likeness.'
xiv 1 And Michael went out and called all the angels saying:
'Worship the image of ? as the Lord ? hath commanded.'
And Michael himself worshipped first; then he called me and said: 'Worship the image of ?
3 the Lord.' And I answered, 'I have no (need) to worship Adam.' And since Michael kept urging me to worship, I said to him, 'Why dost thou urge me? I will not worship an inferior and younger being (than I). I am his senior in the Creation, before he was made was I already made. It is his duty to worship me.'
xv 1,2 When the angels, who were under me, heard this, they refused to worship him. And Michael saith, 'Worship the image of ? , but if thou wilt not worship him, the Lord ? will be wrath
3 with thee.' And I said, 'If He be wrath with me, I will set my seat above the stars of heaven and will be like the Highest.'
xvi 1 And ? the Lord was wrath with me and banished me and my angels from our glory; and on
2 thy account were we expelled from our abodes into this world and hurled on the earth. And
3 straightway we were overcome with grief, since we had been spoiled of so great glory. And we
4 were grieved when we saw thee in such joy and luxury. And with guile I cheated thy wife and caused thee to be expelled through her (doing) from thy joy and luxury, as I have been driven out of my glory.
Wow. Let the Devil tell it, He got kicked out for keeping ? 's 1st and 2nd commandment. Based on His story could any of us say that we would have done differently...?
Back to the op, Are you saying that the Sammael's works are the beginning of the "wheat and tares"? and also he's the gaurdian of "esau"?
Spoken plainly, are you suggesting that white people are protected by one of the chief satanic angels?
Some of there "apocryphal" books are interesting.....
I made this thread to show the reach that evil has. If the story is correct in 4 Baruch, then these fallen have a lot more power than we have been lead to believe.
And as far as Esau being protected, yes. But I don't look at it as a black/white thing deep down. On the surface, there is a bloodline being preserved on this earth for a reason. The way the so called "royal families" of the earth practice that is not by coincidence. This is important when you start examining the moves certain groups of people make. So basically, a remnant of the seed of Esau has been fighting against the descendants of his brother Jacob because he is jealous of the birthright and blessings he got from him. Its all in Genesis 27.
I dont believe that some white people come from Edom. But there are some that may not be apart of that fold. Just like all black people are not the descendants of Jacob. You are what your father is.
Everyone has a chance at redemption however. And that is the most important point. I just bring up things like this in the hopes of tearing down some of the lies told. But with the state of the world and who is and has been in control for a good while now, these make a lot more sense.....
This is what I was attempting to showcase with the "Across cultures" thread, but you articulated it better in here.
I think I missed that thread. Do you have a link?
http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/533093/across-cultures-darker-people-suffer-most-why#latest
Ain't no way that thread should have died.... -
Good thread and informative.
-
Ajackson17 wrote: »Good thread and informative.
Thawadah Ahki. There is a more in depth discussion that can be had on this topic. When I have some time ill add on.
-
For the record........... The "apple" was the fruit used in the newer bible. The fruit in the older version of the bible is a fig.
Scriptures?
I'm not asking because I dont believe you. I'm asking because I've never seen either mentioned. I posted verses that describes is as a fruit coming from a vine (like grapes). Just curious. -
-
Judge_Judah wrote: »For the record........... The "apple" was the fruit used in the newer bible. The fruit in the older version of the bible is a fig.
Scriptures?
I'm not asking because I dont believe you. I'm asking because I've never seen either mentioned. I posted verses that describes is as a fruit coming from a vine (like grapes). Just curious.
I heard that somewhere. I'm not absolutely certain it was a fig, but it definitely wasn't an apple. In the KJV it just says "fruit". The apple I think is some Greek/Roman symbolism that the powers that be just snuck in the mass consciousness, hence the "adam's apple", the apple in most modern Adam and Eve paintings, the apple in Snow White, etc. -
Judge_Judah wrote: »For the record........... The "apple" was the fruit used in the newer bible. The fruit in the older version of the bible is a fig.
Scriptures?
I'm not asking because I dont believe you. I'm asking because I've never seen either mentioned. I posted verses that describes is as a fruit coming from a vine (like grapes). Just curious.
I heard that somewhere. I'm not absolutely certain it was a fig, but it definitely wasn't an apple. In the KJV it just says "fruit". The apple I think is some Greek/Roman symbolism that the powers that be just snuck in the mass consciousness, hence the "adam's apple", the apple in most modern Adam and Eve paintings, the apple in Snow White, etc.
I have been making a mistake that I just realized. This is the fourth chapter of 3rd Baruch, which is apart of the pseudopigrapha....i have been saying 4rd Baruch...my apologies. But here is the verse pertaining to the "fruit"
3 Baruch 4:
8 all are Alphias, Abyrus, and the Gericus; and because of these the sea does not sink. And I said, I pray thee show me which is the tree which led Adam astray. And the angel said to me, It is the vine, which the angel Sammael planted, whereat the Lord ? was angry, and He cursed him and his plant, while also on this account He did not permit Adam to touch it, and therefore 9 the devil being envious deceived him through his vine.
Then down at the 15 verse it explains how the "fruit" lasted after the flood. It even gives insight as to what the fruit was....
15 he said: Lord, I entreat thee to reveal to me what I shall do concerning this plant. But ? sent his angel Sarasael, and said to him, Arise, Noah, and plant the shoot of the vine, for thus saith the Lord : Its bitterness shall be changed into sweetness, and its curse shall become a blessing, and that which is produced from it shall become the blood of ? ; and as through it the human race obtained condemnation, so again through Jesus Christ the Immanuel will they receive in Him
Here is another precept
20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper. 21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. 22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of ? , and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. 23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
1 Cor 11:20-25
