Cam Newton for MVP? The madness has to stop...
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Shizlansky wrote: »Stewart is averaging less then 4 yards a carry and second in carries behind AP
Stewart is very average
Nobody in the NFL had rush for more 1st downs then Cam
Any back that average less then 4 yards is not good. He's only averaging .3 more yards a carry then Trent Richardson
The Patriots are averaging 3.8 ypc. So Tom has SLIGHTLY less run help.
I don't think that's true. Adrian Peterson (another person I called worthy of wining) leads the league in runs for a first down I think.
So neither of those points works for Cam outdoing them. -
Shizlansky wrote: »New England and Carolina defense is giving up the same amount of points per game.
Points per game is more important then yards.Shizlansky wrote: »New England and Carolina defense is giving up the same amount of points per game.
Points per game is more important then yards.
Pay no attention to the post that was here
Alright let's look at the defenses since y'all think you made a point here....
Panthers ppg allowed 18.8
Patriots ppg allowed 19.3
Slight advantage Panthers
Panthers ypg allowed 312.5
Patriots ypg allowed 349.6
Advantage Panthers
Panthers defensive turnovers 28
Patriots defensive turnovers 15
HUGE advantage Panthers
Panthers defensive TD's - 4
Patriots defensive TD's - 0
Big advantage Panthers
So like we already knew before, the Panthers have a better defense. -
bow to royalty wrote: »En-Fuego22 wrote: »How do you know his team can win without him? Cam hasn't been hurt for an extended period of time. You could have a better argument if you didn't come off as a hater.
He has the 3rd leading rusher, and #2 defense (that has a LB that could be DPOY, and a corner who's playing like one of the best in the league this year). He's not on a team of scrubs. Don't say stupid things.
Those 90s Bulls teams were pretty good too...
What about those 80s Lakers Teams? ...
Legendary Niners teams?
Great argument, breh -
bow to royalty wrote: »En-Fuego22 wrote: »How do you know his team can win without him? Cam hasn't been hurt for an extended period of time. You could have a better argument if you didn't come off as a hater.
He has the 3rd leading rusher, and #2 defense (that has a LB that could be DPOY, and a corner who's playing like one of the best in the league this year). He's not on a team of scrubs. Don't say stupid things.
Those 90s Bulls teams were pretty good too...
What about those 80s Lakers Teams? ...
Legendary Niners teams?
Great argument, breh
Did you just change sports and decades on me, and think you made a point? Stick to football, and elaborate. Or just don't say anything...but don't say random ? . -
Don't deflect...
Sports are sports, how does that not represent the spirit of your argument?
"A great player on the winningest team CANNOT become MVP because their team is too good"
How about Brady's 2010 MVP campaign?
He "carried a garbage team" that year, huh?
Pro Bowlers
QB Tom Brady
G Logan Mankins
T Matt Light
ILB Jerod Mayo
CB Devin McCourty
S Brandon Meriweather
WR Wes Welker
DT Vince Wilfork
AP All-Pros
QB Tom Brady (1st team)
G Logan Mankins (1st team)
ILB Jerod Mayo (1st team)
CB Devin McCourty (2nd team)
T Sebastian Vollmer (2nd team)
DT Vince Wilfork (2nd team)
Or is that too many years ago to be a valid example?
It takes good teams to go undefeated/win titles... Not just one good player.
That is given... Doesn't mean they aren't deserving of individual accolades. -
bow to royalty wrote: »Shizlansky wrote: »New England and Carolina defense is giving up the same amount of points per game.
Points per game is more important then yards.Shizlansky wrote: »New England and Carolina defense is giving up the same amount of points per game.
Points per game is more important then yards.
Pay no attention to the post that was here
Alright let's look at the defenses since y'all think you made a point here....
Panthers ppg allowed 18.8
Patriots ppg allowed 19.3
Slight advantage Panthers
Panthers ypg allowed 312.5
Patriots ypg allowed 349.6
Advantage Panthers
Panthers defensive turnovers 28
Patriots defensive turnovers 15
HUGE advantage Panthers
Panthers defensive TD's - 4
Patriots defensive TD's - 0
Big advantage Panthers
So like we already knew before, the Panthers have a better defense.
What was the point of this post? Because the Panthers defense has been better, NE defense is not even comparable, even though they give up virtually the same amount of point? I can tell you don't watch the games. You're on nfl.com, looking for stats that you believe support your argument. You're a hating ass Bucs fan, talking outta his ass -
Let's talk about dropped ? , and how Carolina has the 4th highest percentage in the league, and that's while ranking 30th in pass attempts. If those 17 drops are converted his completion percentage would be 62%. And above all else when considering Cam for MVP, his team has no losses, 11 weeks into the season. I hope he does win, just so you can stay salty.
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bow to royalty wrote: »Shizlansky wrote: »New England and Carolina defense is giving up the same amount of points per game.
Points per game is more important then yards.Shizlansky wrote: »New England and Carolina defense is giving up the same amount of points per game.
Points per game is more important then yards.
Pay no attention to the post that was here
Alright let's look at the defenses since y'all think you made a point here....
Panthers ppg allowed 18.8
Patriots ppg allowed 19.3
Slight advantage Panthers
Panthers ypg allowed 312.5
Patriots ypg allowed 349.6
Advantage Panthers
Panthers defensive turnovers 28
Patriots defensive turnovers 15
HUGE advantage Panthers
Panthers defensive TD's - 4
Patriots defensive TD's - 0
Big advantage Panthers
So like we already knew before, the Panthers have a better defense.
What was the point of this post? Because the Panthers defense has been better, NE defense is not even comparable, even though they give up virtually the same amount of point? I can tell you don't watch the games. You're on nfl.com, looking for stats that you believe support your argument. You're a hating ass Bucs fan, talking outta his ass
Bruh, you pointed out I didn't reply to a post then ask why I responded to it? I didn't day the defense isn't comparable. I said the Panthers defense is better. It's wild you're calling this hate. I said the Panthers have a great team, and haven't said much negative stuff about Cam. How's that hate? -
Cam deserves to be MVP if they win more than the Patriots.
That's the precedent the league has set. -
Don't deflect...
Sports are sports, how does that not represent the spirit of your argument?
"A great player on the winningest team CANNOT become MVP because their team is too good"
How about Brady's 2010 MVP campaign?
He "carried a garbage team" that year, huh?
Pro Bowlers
QB Tom Brady
G Logan Mankins
T Matt Light
ILB Jerod Mayo
CB Devin McCourty
S Brandon Meriweather
WR Wes Welker
DT Vince Wilfork
AP All-Pros
QB Tom Brady (1st team)
G Logan Mankins (1st team)
ILB Jerod Mayo (1st team)
CB Devin McCourty (2nd team)
T Sebastian Vollmer (2nd team)
DT Vince Wilfork (2nd team)
Or is that too many years ago to be a valid example?
It takes good teams to go undefeated/win titles... Not just one good player.
That is given... Doesn't mean they aren't deserving of individual accolades.
Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say a player on a great team can't win MVP. I said "MVP is usually chosen from 2 categories, and he's not leading in either.
1) Individual stats and level of play
2) How essential you are to team success."
Brady's individual stats were 65.9% completed passes (4th in the league), 36 TD's (1st in the league) 4 INT's (least in the league), and QBR of 111 (highest in the league). Check #1 above. -
I'm not saying Cam is a ? , I'm saying he's not MVP worthy. Doug Martin is having a great year. He's running behind 2 rookie OL, in a new offense, with a rookie at QB, and is putting up over 5 ypc. But he's not MVP worthy. It's not hate, it's reality.
Yall are acting like me saying he shouldn't be getting MVP is saying he's WOAT. -
bow to royalty wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »Shizlansky wrote: »New England and Carolina defense is giving up the same amount of points per game.
Points per game is more important then yards.Shizlansky wrote: »New England and Carolina defense is giving up the same amount of points per game.
Points per game is more important then yards.
Pay no attention to the post that was here
Alright let's look at the defenses since y'all think you made a point here....
Panthers ppg allowed 18.8
Patriots ppg allowed 19.3
Slight advantage Panthers
Panthers ypg allowed 312.5
Patriots ypg allowed 349.6
Advantage Panthers
Panthers defensive turnovers 28
Patriots defensive turnovers 15
HUGE advantage Panthers
Panthers defensive TD's - 4
Patriots defensive TD's - 0
Big advantage Panthers
So like we already knew before, the Panthers have a better defense.
What was the point of this post? Because the Panthers defense has been better, NE defense is not even comparable, even though they give up virtually the same amount of point? I can tell you don't watch the games. You're on nfl.com, looking for stats that you believe support your argument. You're a hating ass Bucs fan, talking outta his ass
Bruh, you pointed out I didn't reply to a post then ask why I responded to it? I didn't day the defense isn't comparable. I said the Panthers defense is better. It's wild you're calling this hate. I said the Panthers have a great team, and haven't said much negative stuff about Cam. How's that hate?
I just don't understand how it's hard to believe he is an MVP candidate. Tom Brady is playing for the defending champions, with plenty of talent around him up until the last couple of weeks. Patriots have had sustained success for the past 14 years, as well as a HOF coach. Cam is the best offensive player on a team that struggled offensively last year, as well as not playing a single down with his #1 receiver from last year. The man scores 3 less touchdowns than Brady, an somehow it's unreasonable for his name to be in the MVP conversation??? Making this thread was clearly an emotional decision, based upon a division rivals success. -
bow to royalty wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »Shizlansky wrote: »New England and Carolina defense is giving up the same amount of points per game.
Points per game is more important then yards.Shizlansky wrote: »New England and Carolina defense is giving up the same amount of points per game.
Points per game is more important then yards.
Pay no attention to the post that was here
Alright let's look at the defenses since y'all think you made a point here....
Panthers ppg allowed 18.8
Patriots ppg allowed 19.3
Slight advantage Panthers
Panthers ypg allowed 312.5
Patriots ypg allowed 349.6
Advantage Panthers
Panthers defensive turnovers 28
Patriots defensive turnovers 15
HUGE advantage Panthers
Panthers defensive TD's - 4
Patriots defensive TD's - 0
Big advantage Panthers
So like we already knew before, the Panthers have a better defense.
What was the point of this post? Because the Panthers defense has been better, NE defense is not even comparable, even though they give up virtually the same amount of point? I can tell you don't watch the games. You're on nfl.com, looking for stats that you believe support your argument. You're a hating ass Bucs fan, talking outta his ass
Bruh, you pointed out I didn't reply to a post then ask why I responded to it? I didn't day the defense isn't comparable. I said the Panthers defense is better. It's wild you're calling this hate. I said the Panthers have a great team, and haven't said much negative stuff about Cam. How's that hate?
I just don't understand how it's hard to believe he is an MVP candidate. Tom Brady is playing for the defending champions, with plenty of talent around him up until the last couple of weeks. Patriots have had sustained success for the past 14 years, as well as a HOF coach. Cam is the best offensive player on a team that struggled offensively last year, as well as not playing a single down with his #1 receiver from last year. The man scores 3 less touchdowns than Brady, an somehow it's unreasonable for his name to be in the MVP conversation??? Making this thread was clearly an emotional decision, based upon a division rivals success.
I've only praised the Panthers so how is this divisional rival hatred? Saying a better player is playing better, only sounds like hate when you stop being objective. He has 3 less TD's, a lot less yards, more turnovers, a much worse completion percentage, and worse QB rating. -
There's a lot of straw man arguments in here. I didn't say Cam was playing bad. I said he doesn't deserve MVP. Saying he's good isn't saying anything, because I didn't say he wasn't. Tell me why he deserves it over Brady and AP. Possibly darke horse Carson Palmer (I doubt he really has a chance though). That's what's being discussed.
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bow to royalty wrote: »There's a lot of straw man arguments in here. I didn't say Cam was playing bad. I said he doesn't deserve MVP. Saying he's good isn't saying anything, because I didn't say he wasn't. Tell me why he deserves it over Brady and AP. Possibly darke horse Carson Palmer (I doubt he really has a chance though). That's what's being discussed.
I've given you several reasons as to why he deserves it over Brady. You keep acting like they're not valid. You're bringing up me calling you a hater, but you won't mention the rest of my argument. And you keep saying the same thing. Pass yards, completion percentage, and qb rating aren't the only stats the NFL keeps. You're not here to debate, because you have no argument. -
Every time a black qb do well and is in the mvp hunt salt come. From mcnair having to share his mvp to cams accomplishments being minimized. U take him from Carolina they are the jets. A defensive team who can't score.
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Every time a black qb do well and is in the mvp hunt salt come. From mcnair having to share his mvp to cams accomplishments being minimized. U take him from Carolina they are the jets. A defensive team who can't score.
they did McNair a favor
He was in the same division as Peyton and lost both games to the Colts that year, so a Co-MVP was warranted in that case
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Every time a black qb do well and is in the mvp hunt salt come. From mcnair having to share his mvp to cams accomplishments being minimized. U take him from Carolina they are the jets. A defensive team who can't score.
I said AP would be worthy of the award. His blackness doesn't count because he's a RB? The Jets are 6-5. Not a ? team. How do you think Vikings do without Peterson, or Pats without Brady? -
bow to royalty wrote: »There's a lot of straw man arguments in here. I didn't say Cam was playing bad. I said he doesn't deserve MVP. Saying he's good isn't saying anything, because I didn't say he wasn't. Tell me why he deserves it over Brady and AP. Possibly darke horse Carson Palmer (I doubt he really has a chance though). That's what's being discussed.
I've given you several reasons as to why he deserves it over Brady. You keep acting like they're not valid. You're bringing up me calling you a hater, but you won't mention the rest of my argument. And you keep saying the same thing. Pass yards, completion percentage, and qb rating aren't the only stats the NFL keeps. You're not here to debate, because you have no argument.
You said silly stuff. Brady is playing for the defending champions...and? And Brady had plenty of talent around him. Who? Dobson, Lafell, Edelman, and Amendola? Or his OL that are on IR? Or his bad running game (which has Lewis on IR)? He has Gronk. And you call me a hater, but you're taking credit away from Brady for MVP because of who his coach is?! THAT'S hater talk. -
bow to royalty wrote: »Every time a black qb do well and is in the mvp hunt salt come. From mcnair having to share his mvp to cams accomplishments being minimized. U take him from Carolina they are the jets. A defensive team who can't score.
I said AP would be worthy of the award. His blackness doesn't count because he's a RB? The Jets are 6-5. Not a ? team. How do you think Vikings do without Peterson, or Pats without Brady?
08, Matt Cassel led the Patriots to 11-5 record.
Today he is a backup QB...
You saw what he did this year
I'm going to go or on a limb and say they have a pretty good coach and system, bruh.
Brady is a Hall of Famer, but let's not act like the Pats are bums without him.
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bow to royalty wrote: »Every time a black qb do well and is in the mvp hunt salt come. From mcnair having to share his mvp to cams accomplishments being minimized. U take him from Carolina they are the jets. A defensive team who can't score.
I said AP would be worthy of the award. His blackness doesn't count because he's a RB? The Jets are 6-5. Not a ? team. How do you think Vikings do without Peterson, or Pats without Brady?
08, Matt Cassel led the Patriots to 11-5 record.
Today he is a backup QB...
You saw what he did this year
I'm going to go or on a limb and say they have a pretty good coach and system, bruh.
Brady is a Hall of Famer, but let's not act like the Pats are bums without him.
The Patriots were 16-0 the year before. That team was stacked when Cassell came in.
But this year? Bruh, you know damn well that's a mediocre team if he's out the game. -
But that don't mean Brady deserves MVP over Cam. If Cam finishes with a better record, he's done everything that an MVP is required to do. I'd like to see him win and dab on them folks while collecting the trophy
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bow to royalty wrote: »Every time a black qb do well and is in the mvp hunt salt come. From mcnair having to share his mvp to cams accomplishments being minimized. U take him from Carolina they are the jets. A defensive team who can't score.
I said AP would be worthy of the award. His blackness doesn't count because he's a RB? The Jets are 6-5. Not a ? team. How do you think Vikings do without Peterson, or Pats without Brady?
08, Matt Cassel led the Patriots to 11-5 record.
Today he is a backup QB...
You saw what he did this year
I'm going to go or on a limb and say they have a pretty good coach and system, bruh.
Brady is a Hall of Famer, but let's not act like the Pats are bums without him.
Another history lesson...
Ya, the 2015 Patriots are good without Brady because the 08 Patriots won without Brady. -
fightforolddc wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »Every time a black qb do well and is in the mvp hunt salt come. From mcnair having to share his mvp to cams accomplishments being minimized. U take him from Carolina they are the jets. A defensive team who can't score.
I said AP would be worthy of the award. His blackness doesn't count because he's a RB? The Jets are 6-5. Not a ? team. How do you think Vikings do without Peterson, or Pats without Brady?
08, Matt Cassel led the Patriots to 11-5 record.
Today he is a backup QB...
You saw what he did this year
I'm going to go or on a limb and say they have a pretty good coach and system, bruh.
Brady is a Hall of Famer, but let's not act like the Pats are bums without him.
The Patriots were 16-0 the year before. That team was stacked when Cassell came in.
But this year? Bruh, you know damn well that's a mediocre team if he's out the game.
Agreed. Clearly Brady is better than Cassell ... Clearly.
The bolded is what I was getting at...
Is this Panthers roster better than that Patriots roster???
What if the Panthers go 16-0 ...
But... But Cam doesent deserve MVP...
Why?
Well, you know... Because...
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fightforolddc wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »Every time a black qb do well and is in the mvp hunt salt come. From mcnair having to share his mvp to cams accomplishments being minimized. U take him from Carolina they are the jets. A defensive team who can't score.
I said AP would be worthy of the award. His blackness doesn't count because he's a RB? The Jets are 6-5. Not a ? team. How do you think Vikings do without Peterson, or Pats without Brady?
08, Matt Cassel led the Patriots to 11-5 record.
Today he is a backup QB...
You saw what he did this year
I'm going to go or on a limb and say they have a pretty good coach and system, bruh.
Brady is a Hall of Famer, but let's not act like the Pats are bums without him.
The Patriots were 16-0 the year before. That team was stacked when Cassell came in.
But this year? Bruh, you know damn well that's a mediocre team if he's out the game.
They all know that, but they can't say it because they won't admit Brady is working with limited weapons just like Cam is. That's a huge part of the Cam support system...he has to do so much with so little. But Brady...he's on a stacked offense.
