Has organized religion held human advancement back?

PILL_COSBY

I've noticed a disturbing trend all throughout history. Whenever something goes beyond or against religious beliefs. It gets ignored or eliminated. Problem with this is that a lot of advancements, knowledge, and breakthroughs have fallen victim to this. It's done more harm than good. A lot of great thinkers and geniuses in history weren't really religious or not religious at all. These are the people who advanced society, Not the church/organize religion. Were these people looked at as gods/prophets etc etc? NOPE!!!! They were demons!!!!!!!(according to religion). Or they were being contacted by something evil smh. I find it funny that this was always the case. but when they see the good it does or find a use for it themselves. All of a sudden it's not evil no more and is OK. Kind of like how our government does with certain things today, like weed for one example. But this is always done in the wake of paranoia, uproar, control, and destruction that religion has caused. Now we're just left with the broken pieces to work with if you feel what I'm saying.

If you really look at what it has done in the case of human advancement, it has clearly held us back. Do you know how many "witches", "wizards", and "demons"(AKA SCIENTIST/DOCTORS/INVENTORS/FOREWORD THINKERS) Have been killed, locked up, and cast out of society all because of religion? I mean just imagine if they would have let all those people cook. We would be living like the jetsons right about now lol. A lot of the discoveries and breakthroughs we have today. Somebody was already on to it in the past and got shut down. The pyramids are one of the greatest mystery's/accomplishments in history. Something that we can't even mimic to this day. Not even the most strong lifting equipment we have now can lift the smallest stone from them. Do you know how many of these massive stones make up a ? pyramid? Think on that for a second lol. During the many invasions. Folks from outside of africa came in and destroyed all of this great ancient knowledge in the name of their "religion". Somewhere among that ancient knowledge was the key. That is just one case of MANY!!!

I mean damn, all of these geniuses and inventors had to go underground or work with what they could. All because organized religion forced them underground, kept getting in their way, or cut off their funding etc etc. Just looking at these facts, religion has put humanity in a sleep, docile, sheepish complacent place. It basically says "Lets stop looking, lets stop expanding our minds. Everything we need to know is in these man made twisted up holy books". People who break away from this seem to be the ones advancing things.

zzombie

YES & NO

The first universities and hospitials were basically created by organized religious states

PILL_COSBY

YES

zzombie wrote: »

The first universities and hospitials were basically created by organized religious states

No they weren't. They were created after they got over their paranoia. Lets not change history now. They would have been created if it weren't for religions shutting them down and stopping them from organizing. Everybody talking that ? ? until they need a knowledgeable human to heal them. Then it's off to the hospital, not the church. Do you know how many times advancements in the study of the human body have been shut down? Do you know how many people died because of this?

The Catholic church has the worlds most powerful telescope. Not too long ago that was the work of the devil.......... ... ..What are they doing with the work of the devil in one of their most holiest of places? Muslims walk around in a ? circle around a piece of ? space rock. But shunned the study of them......? People have tried to study that piece rock but aren't allowed lol. Does any of this ? make any sense?

zzombie

YES & NO

BARON_$AMEDI wrote: »

zzombie wrote: »

The first universities and hospitials were basically created by organized religious states

No they weren't. They were created after they got over their paranoia. Lets not change history now. They would have been created if it weren't for religions shutting them down and stopping them from organizing. Everybody talking that ? ? until they need a knowledgeable human to heal them. Then it's off to the hospital, not the church.

The Catholic church has the worlds most powerful telescope. Not too long ago that was the work of the devil.......... ... ..What are they doing with the work of the devil in one of their most holiest of places? Muslims walk around in a ? circle around a piece of ? space rock. But shunned the study of them......? People have tried to study thats pace rock but aren't allowed lol. Does any of this ? make any sense?

You are the one changing history and clearly you don't know what the ? you are talking about, in the west the university system did not start during the enlightenment or even the renaissance it started in the middle ages.

and all that ? you wrote i put in bold is despite the point people can have religious belief and reason it's a modern misconception and idea that the two are mutually exclusive

zzombie

YES & NO

I am no catholic and believe that they are a corrupted church however historically the church did support science and the spread of knowledge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03KXFMyru8E&list=PL7HxXw2uoFLC2NV6txCvHFd17EiXHJu-m

zzombie

YES & NO

Also outside of the west there was nalanda university it also was supported by religious people and started by hindus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7UR9UEY79k

zzombie

YES & NO

and timbuktu was also a religious institution

soul rattler

YES

There is a distinct difference between early civilizations' spiritual institutions and what we know now to be religious institutions.

At one point, science was an extension of man's curiosity of how the universe worked and that translated into building new ways to live.

Then came religion, which introduced an unhealthy fear of the unknown and would threaten punishment against those who sought to learn more. For how dare we better educate ourselves on things only a benevolent ? is supposed to have knowledge of?

The_Jackal

BARON_$AMEDI wrote: »

zzombie wrote: »

The first universities and hospitials were basically created by organized religious states

No they weren't. They were created after they got over their paranoia. Lets not change history now. They would have been created if it weren't for religions shutting them down and stopping them from organizing. Everybody talking that ? ? until they need a knowledgeable human to heal them. Then it's off to the hospital, not the church. Do you know how many times advancements in the study of the human body have been shut down? Do you know how many people died because of this?

The Catholic church has the worlds most powerful telescope. Not too long ago that was the work of the devil.......... ... ..What are they doing with the work of the devil in one of their most holiest of places? Muslims walk around in a ? circle around a piece of ? space rock. But shunned the study of them......? People have tried to study thats pace rock but aren't allowed lol. Does any of this ? make any sense?

The university system that was created started durine the midle age by Charlemagne the great first empire of the HRE. There was no paranoia just survival was overall more important then knowledge something we take for granted. That's how I know the rest of your points are most likely uninformed ? . Let me guess there was a dark ages too.

The_Jackal

soul rattler wrote: »

There is a distinct difference between early civilizations' spiritual institutions and what we know now to be religious institutions.

At one point, science was an extension of man's curiosity of how the universe worked and that translated into building new ways to live.

Then came religion, which introduced an unhealthy fear of the unknown and would threaten punishment against those who sought to learn more. For how dare we better educate ourselves on things only a benevolent ? is supposed to have knowledge of?

Fudmentally wrong. The first great thinkers in society were religious.

soul rattler

YES

The_Jackal wrote: »

soul rattler wrote: »

There is a distinct difference between early civilizations' spiritual institutions and what we know now to be religious institutions.

At one point, science was an extension of man's curiosity of how the universe worked and that translated into building new ways to live.

Then came religion, which introduced an unhealthy fear of the unknown and would threaten punishment against those who sought to learn more. For how dare we better educate ourselves on things only a benevolent ? is supposed to have knowledge of?

Fudmentally wrong. The first great thinkers in society were religious.

Again, there's spirituality and there's religion.

I just ? said that in the very ? post you just ? quoted.

The_Jackal

soul rattler wrote: »

The_Jackal wrote: »

soul rattler wrote: »

There is a distinct difference between early civilizations' spiritual institutions and what we know now to be religious institutions.

At one point, science was an extension of man's curiosity of how the universe worked and that translated into building new ways to live.

Then came religion, which introduced an unhealthy fear of the unknown and would threaten punishment against those who sought to learn more. For how dare we better educate ourselves on things only a benevolent ? is supposed to have knowledge of?

Fudmentally wrong. The first great thinkers in society were religious.

Again, there's spirituality and there's religion.

I just ? said that in the very ? post you just ? quoted.

And I just ? said your wrong because you are. The first philosophers of society were religious

And_So_It_Burns

well one can argue from both sides on this one. Faith by definition, is the antithesis of reason. Some religions do advance science but they only advance science that doesn't conflict with their religious narrative often. Just look at the opposition to heliocentrism by the church.

PILL_COSBY

YES

PILL_COSBY

YES

SMH, the treatment of women is horrible when it comes to most religions. They treat women like 2nd class citizens, property, and limits their lives. Just think of how many great female minds who made great advancements were shut down. All because of sexist religious beliefs. Sadly we will never know because they were more than likely "SILENCED" and erased from history. What's up with all the misogyny in religion? I mean sometimes I be reading these stories from these holy books and "do the ? " pops up in my mind(no ? ). I swear, either a woman is slutting it up, not getting any ? at all, starting wars, getting ? /took advantage of, house wife, docile, or is just crazy. I can't ever remember any of them placing women in a good light. Where's the female prophets? Where's the female inventors? Where's the holy females who aint some mans back up? The strong bright beautiful women who healed the world? ? only talks to men, gives them powers, but only rapes the women? There's always some ? ? involved if there is any women who aren't stereotyped.

And_So_It_Burns wrote: »

well one can argue from both sides on this one. Faith by definition, is the antithesis of reason. Some religions do advance science but they only advance science that doesn't conflict with their religious narrative often. Just look at the opposition to heliocentrism by the church.

Exactly what I said in my post. But they don't seem to want to speak on none of this though..........wonder why? religious folk always get quiet whenever you hit them with 100% facts. They always "try" to justify the ? ? or act like it didn't happen(kinda like with white folks and all of their evil).

@soul rattler

lol, he knew what you meant, that's a classic religious dodge. They never speak on the bad parts of organized religion. It's very rare to run into these so called "saved people"(saved from what? lol) and get them to focus on all the tragedy organized religion has caused.

@zzombie

You vote yes and no. I see nothing but your "no" points of view. What are your yes point of views?

@The_Jackal

Would you stop being a blind religious sheep for once in your fake life and actually read my post. It's a whole lot of facts in there. I love how you so called religious folk love to duck and dodge whenever what you put your "faith" in gets questioned. Why did you completely ignore the thread and only go straight to my response to zombie?

I NEED ANSWERS.

And please stop with the foul language and the hateful E tone. I thought you christians were not supposed to use those "cursed" words smh. I swear, religious folk do a lot more sinning than none religious folks. Don't even try to refute this because people like me know people like you. We see all the ? ? y'all do and then hide behind the religion you half ass believe in every day B. 90% break damn near every rule your religion has on a daily basis. SO PLEASE SAVE ALL THE "I'M MORE INFORMED/ENLIGHTENED THAN YOU" talk. Bring it down a little bruh, bring it down a notch.

The_Jackal

You made broad generalization and expect it to be accepted as fact. Name the great minds who were held back by religion. Never claimed I was more enlighten at all just that the time period that your whole thread premise refers to (Dark Ages) didn't actually exist and is stupid as ? to even refer to it as such especially since it was literally caused by the vashgoths.

zzombie

YES & NO

i freely admit that there have been times especially in the west where the church has held back scientific inquiry but this was done for political more than religious reason

Your grand generalizations are stupid because religious people and organizations have also helped expand human reason and understanding. THE WHOLE premise of this thread is stupid and runs contrary to documented historical reality. Nalanda,timbuktu ,all the schools and hospitals the catholic church started is proof that religious organizations have helped humanity attain knowledge.

alissowack

NO

It is how organized religions are used that holds us back. Organized religions suppose to give us better access to what particular religions believe and why they believe it; that there are "experts" that can give us a run down on how these religions go. However, it is used by those with selfish intentions to profit off of them. Understandably, organizations have to be able to fund the cause for this kind of access, but you have people who take ideologies about life, that suppose to be free, and sell it to us. It gets to the point where organized religions are viewed like competing brands of the same product; that one is better than the other...instead of religions being unique to one another. And if they are desperate, they will compromise the message or dilute the truth about their religions so to gain more "paying" followers.

janklow

NO

problem with this poll is it will simply who's ANGRY ABOUT RELIGION ON THE INTERNET

PILL_COSBY

YES

The_Jackal wrote: »

You made broad generalization and expect it to be accepted as fact. Name the great minds who were held back by religion. Never claimed I was more enlighten at all just that the time period that your whole thread premise refers to (Dark Ages) didn't actually exist and is stupid as ? to even refer to it as such especially since it was literally caused by the vashgoths.

BRUH!!!!!!!!!! don't be afraid, read the post. There is no generalizations at all in my post. It's cold hard facts! Something you guys seem to have issues with whenever your faith gets questioned. The ? are you talking about with this dark ages ? ? When were the dark ages? Because religion acting all weird around anything that conflicts what's in their holy books has been happening for a very long time. It still happens today, are you blind to these facts? Or you see them but act like you don't.

Yo, what are your thoughts on Constantine? Please try to answer my question without all the dodges.

zzombie wrote: »

i freely admit that there have been times especially in the west where the church has held back scientific inquiry but this was done for political more than religious reason

Your grand generalizations are stupid because religious people and organizations have also helped expand human reason and understanding. THE WHOLE premise of this thread is stupid and runs contrary to documented historical reality. Nalanda,timbuktu ,all the schools and hospitals the catholic church started is proof that religious organizations have helped humanity attain knowledge.

Some slave owners helped slaves learn to read and allowed them freedom. What does this have to do with the many lives and minds that were lost?

So what about the times that they didn't? What about the many known and unknown people slaughtered, locked away, and destroyed. How is that a generalization? You saying none of this happened(this is a yes or no question). Yeah religion helps. But nowhere near what it has destroyed, held back, blocked, etc etc.

Peep game:

Lets say 20 years ago. You're(ZZombie) on the verge of discovering anti gravity or a cure for aids/cancer. But you need help so you can fully get the hang of it and figure it out completely. You need money and resources. You go to people that have what you need and ask for help. They all say, "this is not what the religion wants us human beings to be doing, this goes against ? !!!!!". Or they ? you, silence you, or destroy all of your work(or all of the above).

That right there is a huge loss for mankind don't cha think? Get where I'm going with this now? THAT'S THE WHOLE PREMISE OF MY THREAD!

PILL_COSBY

YES

alissowack wrote: »

It is how organized religions are used that holds us back. Organized religions suppose to give us better access to what particular religions believe and why they believe it; that there are "experts" that can give us a run down on how these religions go. However, it is used by those with selfish intentions to profit off of them. Understandably, organizations have to be able to fund the cause for this kind of access, but you have people who take ideologies about life, that suppose to be free, and sell it to us. It gets to the point where organized religions are viewed like competing brands of the same product; that one is better than the other...instead of religions being unique to one another. And if they are desperate, they will compromise the message or dilute the truth about their religions so to gain more "paying" followers.

Exactly what I'm saying. It's a powerful tool that has been corrupted. There's plenty examples of this all throughout history. Shot out to that young smart Muslim girl who took a bullet just so she could get an education. She's a ? G!!! She still talking ? to this very day lol. That little girl will probably grow up and find a cure for all diseases on the planet or some ? .

Organized religion is just like the police force. The arguments on the religious side are sounding just like the cops when they, or their fellow officers ? up.

zzombie

YES & NO

BARON_$AMEDI wrote: »

The_Jackal wrote: »

You made broad generalization and expect it to be accepted as fact. Name the great minds who were held back by religion. Never claimed I was more enlighten at all just that the time period that your whole thread premise refers to (Dark Ages) didn't actually exist and is stupid as ? to even refer to it as such especially since it was literally caused by the vashgoths.

BRUH!!!!!!!!!! don't be afraid, read the post. There is no generalizations at all in my post. It's cold hard facts! Something you guys seem to have issues with whenever your faith gets questioned. The ? are you talking about with this dark ages ? ? When were the dark ages? Because religion acting all weird around anything that conflicts what's in their holy books has been happening for a very long time. It still happens today, are you blind to these facts? Or you see them but act like you don't.

Yo, what are your thoughts on Constantine? Please try to answer my question without all the dodges.

zzombie wrote: »

i freely admit that there have been times especially in the west where the church has held back scientific inquiry but this was done for political more than religious reason

Your grand generalizations are stupid because religious people and organizations have also helped expand human reason and understanding. THE WHOLE premise of this thread is stupid and runs contrary to documented historical reality. Nalanda,timbuktu ,all the schools and hospitals the catholic church started is proof that religious organizations have helped humanity attain knowledge.

Some slave owners helped slaves learn to read and allowed them freedom. What does this have to do with the many lives and minds that were lost?

So what about the times that they didn't? What about the many known and unknown people slaughtered, locked away, and destroyed. How is that a generalization? You saying none of this happened(this is a yes or no question). Yeah religion helps. But nowhere near what it has destroyed, held back, blocked, etc etc.

Peep game:

Lets say 20 years ago. You're(ZZombie) on the verge of discovering anti gravity or a cure for aids/cancer. But you need help so you can fully get the hang of it and figure it out completely. You need money and resources. You go to people that have what you need and ask for help. They all say, "this is not what the religion wants us human beings to be doing, this goes against ? !!!!!". Or they ? you, silence you, or destroy all of your work(or all of the above).

That right there is a huge loss for mankind don't cha think? Get where I'm going with this now? THAT'S THE WHOLE PREMISE OF MY THREAD!

If something is unknown then it's unknown, your perspective is that religion is bad so you are highlighting all the bad things religious organizations have done by talking about all the unknown people that got slaughtered but what about all the unknown countless people that religious organizations have helped in so many different ways? YOU don't talk about that at all because doing so would violate your anti-religious agenda.

The situation in your second paragraph also makes no sense because 20 years ago there was almost no place on the globe were religious institutions had such power and in any case creating a hypothetical scenario when talking about history is useless unless you are writing an alternate history book

the premise of your thread is that religion held mankind back but that is historically a grand and foolish over generalization hell the creation of cathedrals alone helped push the architectural and engineering abilities of man to great heights not to mention the arts

zzombie

YES & NO

religions in there many forms are responsible for the most beatiful things on earth if you have never been to a cathedral I encourage you to go to one If you even visit india go check out ARKSHADAM and the lotus temple. religions has inspired countless millions of people to do both bad and good things and i contend that is has been mostly good.

zzombie

YES & NO

zzombie wrote: »

religions in there many forms are responsible for the most beatiful things on earth if you have never been to a cathedral I encourage you to go to one If you even visit india go check out ARKSHADAM and the lotus temple. religions has inspired countless millions of people to do both bad and good things and i contend that is has been mostly good.

what is the lol for??? clearly you have never traveled anyplace the skill and engineering ability to build something like this only exist because of religion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiq82y_0ruA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69PIMDGv4Bg

The_Jackal

Lol you a lil dancing ass ? that csn never provide a straight answer. Leonard was never oppressed by the church there is evidence that he was even commissioned by them. There isn't even any proof at all of Herbert being held back by the church. Simply answer the question and making generalization. Who was held back by the church that if they weren't we would be years ahead of where we currently are. When did this happen and why?

The Iconoclast

And_So_It_Burns wrote: »

well one can argue from both sides on this one. Faith by definition, is the antithesis of reason. Some religions do advance science but they only advance science that doesn't conflict with their religious narrative often. Just look at the opposition to heliocentrism by the church.

Agreed. It's really a complex question that one could reasonably argue from both sides.

All sides of the argument would be premised on quite a few assumptions though.

For instance, it's difficult to quantify the direct and indirect impact (both positive and negative) organized religion has had on all who've contributed to the advancement of humanity. Just as it's difficult to quantify how far human civilizations would've advanced (relative to our current levels globally) if organized religion and its dogma didn't exist, consequently having its direct and indirect transmission of obscurantism wiped from reality.