To those who believe in a kind and merciful ? ....why is the world so hostile to life?
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b1grobtheking wrote: »i hope this helps somebody peep the knowledge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQNT6ZHryyk
Seems like an interesting video, I'll be checking it out soon, thanks -
kingblaze84 wrote: »alissowack wrote: »@kingblaze84
Jesus unable to live up to expectations according to whom...? or man? When Jesus came, the OT scholars...as well as his disciples...was expecting him to establish a kingdom of political significance; a headquarters of sorts, but was mistaken to think that this kingdom was physical. Jesus said he was going to destroy the temple and "build it in 3 days". It was understood as something that was physical...not spiritual. When Jesus said you must eat his flesh and drink his blood to have eternal life, the people of his time took it to be physical...not spiritual...saying in John 6:52, "Then the Jews argue sharply among themselves,"How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"". Jesus tells Nicodemus you must be "born again" and he thought it meant "crawling back into the ? " and coming back out.
I'm basing my answer on those who call themselves the Messiah of the Bible. If some claims to be Buddha, wouldn't you want to base their claims to be associated with Buddhism? You wouldn't reference a different religion.
Let's just say I'm wrong...which I don't mind being...then as the saying goes in my circle...Jesus lied and we are all still in sin. We still have to deal with our selfish tendancies apart from spiritual guidance. We will create a Hell disguised as Heaven by our own shortcomings to live and die in because ? 's Gift to the world did not deliver. And anyone with physical power and influence will get their utopia.
That's the thing about those OT scholars and modern day OT scholars, they were and are right about Jesus not living up to the expectations of the Old Testament. The OT prophecies were mostly about EARTH being saved (world peace)and united into worshipping one single ? , and that hasn't happened after all this time. This is why Christianity isn't taken seriously in most parts of the world, and people generally have no reason to believe he was a messiah or savior. Jesus may have meant his "kingdom" to be spiritual but the OT prophecies made clear action was supposed to happen on Earth as well. Therefore, Jesus is not much more impressive then David Shayler or Inri Christo. Jesus was more charismatic then David Shayler (most likely), but world peace is still not here. Neither are "The One".
And assuming you are wrong on Jesus being messiah (you are according to your own holy book), the question of sin is still a debatable one. What is sin, and what isn't? Some cultures have different versions of what is bad behavior and what is good behavior. Humans were born to be selfish for the most part, look at the debts governments run up and all the pollution we create for the world. So to judge humans for being "sinful" and selfish, when we were DESIGNED to be those things, is extremely hypocritical for the ? you believe in.
Humans, for the most part, will not change much. They will still murder, steal for land, and do worse. Ironically, Christian nations have some of the worst murder and ? rates in the world. Israel, part of the "holy land", is famous worldwide for the atrocities and war crimes it inflicts upon the Palestinians. Deep, deep irony.
The earth thing is a little bit of a stretch. If I got this right, you believe that Jesus is suppose to save "the planet" Earth...instead of the people of Earth. I like to think that when someone says they are going to change the world or shock the world...they don't mean they are going to labor in forming a different kind of planet. They plan to bring an ideology or perspective that will alter how people see the world. The OT scholars are wrong in thinking that Jesus came for that "earthly" purpose.
I really don't understand the "body count" card that people play. Whether it's one or one million, murder is wrong. Whether someone says they have killed in ? 's Name or they killed because someone had on the wrong color shirt, neither one is acceptable. This ought to tell you something...it doesn't take believing in ? to ? a person so why do we murder? It's like the only reason people should pay attention to murder if it is religious based. And those who do ? in the name of ? , they didn't do so to please ? . They did it to please themselves. And just so you know, in the Bible, Israel had enemies. It wasn't this conquest that you wanted to be. ? has given His People over to His Enemies (Egypt as an example) for not believing in Him. -
alissowack wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »alissowack wrote: »@kingblaze84
Jesus unable to live up to expectations according to whom...? or man? When Jesus came, the OT scholars...as well as his disciples...was expecting him to establish a kingdom of political significance; a headquarters of sorts, but was mistaken to think that this kingdom was physical. Jesus said he was going to destroy the temple and "build it in 3 days". It was understood as something that was physical...not spiritual. When Jesus said you must eat his flesh and drink his blood to have eternal life, the people of his time took it to be physical...not spiritual...saying in John 6:52, "Then the Jews argue sharply among themselves,"How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"". Jesus tells Nicodemus you must be "born again" and he thought it meant "crawling back into the ? " and coming back out.
I'm basing my answer on those who call themselves the Messiah of the Bible. If some claims to be Buddha, wouldn't you want to base their claims to be associated with Buddhism? You wouldn't reference a different religion.
Let's just say I'm wrong...which I don't mind being...then as the saying goes in my circle...Jesus lied and we are all still in sin. We still have to deal with our selfish tendancies apart from spiritual guidance. We will create a Hell disguised as Heaven by our own shortcomings to live and die in because ? 's Gift to the world did not deliver. And anyone with physical power and influence will get their utopia.
That's the thing about those OT scholars and modern day OT scholars, they were and are right about Jesus not living up to the expectations of the Old Testament. The OT prophecies were mostly about EARTH being saved (world peace)and united into worshipping one single ? , and that hasn't happened after all this time. This is why Christianity isn't taken seriously in most parts of the world, and people generally have no reason to believe he was a messiah or savior. Jesus may have meant his "kingdom" to be spiritual but the OT prophecies made clear action was supposed to happen on Earth as well. Therefore, Jesus is not much more impressive then David Shayler or Inri Christo. Jesus was more charismatic then David Shayler (most likely), but world peace is still not here. Neither are "The One".
And assuming you are wrong on Jesus being messiah (you are according to your own holy book), the question of sin is still a debatable one. What is sin, and what isn't? Some cultures have different versions of what is bad behavior and what is good behavior. Humans were born to be selfish for the most part, look at the debts governments run up and all the pollution we create for the world. So to judge humans for being "sinful" and selfish, when we were DESIGNED to be those things, is extremely hypocritical for the ? you believe in.
Humans, for the most part, will not change much. They will still murder, steal for land, and do worse. Ironically, Christian nations have some of the worst murder and ? rates in the world. Israel, part of the "holy land", is famous worldwide for the atrocities and war crimes it inflicts upon the Palestinians. Deep, deep irony.
The earth thing is a little bit of a stretch. If I got this right, you believe that Jesus is suppose to save "the planet" Earth...instead of the people of Earth. I like to think that when someone says they are going to change the world or shock the world...they don't mean they are going to labor in forming a different kind of planet. They plan to bring an ideology or perspective that will alter how people see the world. The OT scholars are wrong in thinking that Jesus came for that "earthly" purpose.
I really don't understand the "body count" card that people play. Whether it's one or one million, murder is wrong. Whether someone says they have killed in ? 's Name or they killed because someone had on the wrong color shirt, neither one is acceptable. This ought to tell you something...it doesn't take believing in ? to ? a person so why do we murder? It's like the only reason people should pay attention to murder if it is religious based. And those who do ? in the name of ? , they didn't do so to please ? . They did it to please themselves. And just so you know, in the Bible, Israel had enemies. It wasn't this conquest that you wanted to be. ? has given His People over to His Enemies (Egypt as an example) for not believing in Him.
Well in your opinion, what is Jesus doing right now? Did he create the Zika virus in your opinion, since you believe he is ? ? The OT says the messiah will re-make the physical Earth into a peaceful one. Did the Old Testament overestimate the messiah's abilities?
And I agree people MOST of the time don't ? for their ? or to please a ? . But don't you find it ironic that in many Christian majority nations, violence and ? are often quite high? So it's debatable if Jesus really made people look at the world much differently. People did bad things before Jesus, and in many Christian nations, people are still doing bad and horrible things. I dare say the Buddha did more for world peace than Jesus, Buddhist majority nations tend to be WAAAAAAAY more peaceful than Christian majority ones. -
@kingblaze84
There was a time when I felt it was unfortunate that we have to deal with the diseases of the world because I believed a lot of times we came across them by accidental exposure. But lately, I am seeing that we (mankind) may be victims of our own doing; that we have manufactured diseases...or at least the environment for diseases to thrive...and trying to make it seem accidental. The Zika virus is thriving because...people of great influence are allowing it to. "They" want us to think that some unfortunate host (not saying this person volunteered) came across diseases and they are doing everything in their power to contain it. They want Americans to think we have a democracy, that our money is worth something, and that they will give us peace and security when the time arises.
Making a peaceful planet doesn't mean that man will be at peace. Because of sin, it won't matter if the environment changes for the better. We will continue to do what we've always done. If the OT scholars understood this, they would agree Jesus came to save mankind.
I've mentioned that you don't need to believe in ? to ? a man. Yet, you are still pulling the body count card. Anybody who does something bad or wrong are doing it for their own selfish reasons. The fact that they are looking for an excuse to justify their wrongs say more about them than the things they are using to justify themselves. ? ...or that red or blue shirt...is separate from who they are. -
alissowack wrote: »@kingblaze84
There was a time when I felt it was unfortunate that we have to deal with the diseases of the world because I believed a lot of times we came across them by accidental exposure. But lately, I am seeing that we (mankind) may be victims of our own doing; that we have manufactured diseases...or at least the environment for diseases to thrive...and trying to make it seem accidental. The Zika virus is thriving because...people of great influence are allowing it to. "They" want us to think that some unfortunate host (not saying this person volunteered) came across diseases and they are doing everything in their power to contain it. They want Americans to think we have a democracy, that our money is worth something, and that they will give us peace and security when the time arises.
Making a peaceful planet doesn't mean that man will be at peace. Because of sin, it won't matter if the environment changes for the better. We will continue to do what we've always done. If the OT scholars understood this, they would agree Jesus came to save mankind.
I've mentioned that you don't need to believe in ? to ? a man. Yet, you are still pulling the body count card. Anybody who does something bad or wrong are doing it for their own selfish reasons. The fact that they are looking for an excuse to justify their wrongs say more about them than the things they are using to justify themselves. ? ...or that red or blue shirt...is separate from who they are.
I've heard some people say the Zika virus is manufactured but there are diseases worst then the Zika virus that are definitely natural. Most birth defects have no known cause and parasites are definitely natural too. But let's say people of great influence are "allowing" the Zika virus to thrive, where is the so called messiah in this, as this horrible disease is allowed to run wild and ruin millions of families lives? I guess my version of messiah is different then yours, as I expect a messiah to be active, not lazy and always hiding all the time.
I think a peaceful planet where natural disasters and parasites are not allowed to run wild would make man a lot more peaceful. Less angry people would be running around, less poverty from cleaning up after natural disasters that make people desperate and angry at the world. If a parent loses a child to leprosy or parasites for example, he or she might become bitter people and take their anger on someone else, spreading the cycle of misery or violence going on out there. Natural disasters of the world are probably the biggest reasons I lost faith in all powerful gods, though I remain open to a higher force being out there. -
Birth defects can be manufactured too. Jesus is exactly where people want him...out of their lives. People want a miracles but when Jesus exposes what is the truth about mankind through the Bible...we don't want to hear it. We want something that makes us feel good about following Jesus until we don't need him anymore.
Getting rid of the disease of the world isn't going to keep somebody from being self centered. It's not going to stop people from hating one another. And, because of sin, it is not going to make people seek ? . -
alissowack wrote: »Birth defects can be manufactured too. Jesus is exactly where people want him...out of their lives. People want a miracles but when Jesus exposes what is the truth about mankind through the Bible...we don't want to hear it. We want something that makes us feel good about following Jesus until we don't need him anymore.
Getting rid of the disease of the world isn't going to keep somebody from being self centered. It's not going to stop people from hating one another. And, because of sin, it is not going to make people seek ? .
Birth defects can be manufactured, but most happen for natural reasons, parasites and viruses are other reasons among many others. Scientists have noted the human body wasn't designed very well to fight off many germs or parasites.
As far as the Bible "exposing" the truth, didn't the angel Gabriel or some other angel reveal himself to the prophet Mohammed, and state the new truth is the Koran? According to the prophet Mohammed, the Bible is an incomplete truth filled with scientific errors and lies, because the angel Gabriel came from heaven to proclaim the new, updated truth. Maybe the Bible ? wanted the Bible replaced with the Koran? Any theories on why the Biblical angel Gabriel would visit Mohammed and tell him directly the Bible is an incomplete lie?
So with so much conflicting information being out there, a book being a book isn't necessarily gonna prove something to anyone. I guess Jesus has given up on humanity and is trying to convert alien species out there, cuz he seems to have abandoned Earth completely. As the other gods have. -
let eddie griffin break it down yall do know life is just big big illusion right????we are already eternal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PFs9c-MNbo -
b1grobtheking wrote: »let eddie griffin break it down yall do know life is just big big illusion right????we are already eternalhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PFs9c-MNbo
Nice video, I agree with most of what he said. I do believe there is or was some kind of higher designer out there. And religions can explain a lot about human kind and the world in general, but not everything as he said. It's why it's good to ask questions, even ones that probably have no universal answer at the moment.
I do have some conclusions about the world, but I'm still willing to keep my mind open (to an extent) -
kingblaze84 wrote: »alissowack wrote: »Birth defects can be manufactured too. Jesus is exactly where people want him...out of their lives. People want a miracles but when Jesus exposes what is the truth about mankind through the Bible...we don't want to hear it. We want something that makes us feel good about following Jesus until we don't need him anymore.
Getting rid of the disease of the world isn't going to keep somebody from being self centered. It's not going to stop people from hating one another. And, because of sin, it is not going to make people seek ? .
Birth defects can be manufactured, but most happen for natural reasons, parasites and viruses are other reasons among many others. Scientists have noted the human body wasn't designed very well to fight off many germs or parasites.
As far as the Bible "exposing" the truth, didn't the angel Gabriel or some other angel reveal himself to the prophet Mohammed, and state the new truth is the Koran? According to the prophet Mohammed, the Bible is an incomplete truth filled with scientific errors and lies, because the angel Gabriel came from heaven to proclaim the new, updated truth. Maybe the Bible ? wanted the Bible replaced with the Koran? Any theories on why the Biblical angel Gabriel would visit Mohammed and tell him directly the Bible is an incomplete lie?
So with so much conflicting information being out there, a book being a book isn't necessarily gonna prove something to anyone. I guess Jesus has given up on humanity and is trying to convert alien species out there, cuz he seems to have abandoned Earth completely. As the other gods have.
Mankind poorly treated is more like it. Like I've mentioned, we've created an environment for our demise. The foods we eat are not the same as it use to be. They are more prone to ? us than keep us healthy. Medicines intended to cure one problem has multiple side effects. And I'm sure the stresses of life add to our degradation. And scientists seem to not know what stance to take on what is good for you and what is bad for you. One moment coffee or dark chocolate is good for you and another it isn't.
Maybe I should have clarified that truth that is being expose...but you already know what I'm going to post...that we are sinners in need of a savior. Islam doesn't expose anything. It just more or less says that Allah is the one true ? and Mohammed is his messenger. It doesn't have anything significant to say about mankind's condition. It says we are all Muslims and that we just simply turned away. There is nothing redemptive about Islam. Anybody who is not Muslim must die according to Islam. And there is nothing that suggest that even their martyrdom will be rewarded in spite of the "virgins" Islam say awaits them in their heaven. -
alissowack wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »alissowack wrote: »Birth defects can be manufactured too. Jesus is exactly where people want him...out of their lives. People want a miracles but when Jesus exposes what is the truth about mankind through the Bible...we don't want to hear it. We want something that makes us feel good about following Jesus until we don't need him anymore.
Getting rid of the disease of the world isn't going to keep somebody from being self centered. It's not going to stop people from hating one another. And, because of sin, it is not going to make people seek ? .
Birth defects can be manufactured, but most happen for natural reasons, parasites and viruses are other reasons among many others. Scientists have noted the human body wasn't designed very well to fight off many germs or parasites.
As far as the Bible "exposing" the truth, didn't the angel Gabriel or some other angel reveal himself to the prophet Mohammed, and state the new truth is the Koran? According to the prophet Mohammed, the Bible is an incomplete truth filled with scientific errors and lies, because the angel Gabriel came from heaven to proclaim the new, updated truth. Maybe the Bible ? wanted the Bible replaced with the Koran? Any theories on why the Biblical angel Gabriel would visit Mohammed and tell him directly the Bible is an incomplete lie?
So with so much conflicting information being out there, a book being a book isn't necessarily gonna prove something to anyone. I guess Jesus has given up on humanity and is trying to convert alien species out there, cuz he seems to have abandoned Earth completely. As the other gods have.
Mankind poorly treated is more like it. Like I've mentioned, we've created an environment for our demise. The foods we eat are not the same as it use to be. They are more prone to ? us than keep us healthy. Medicines intended to cure one problem has multiple side effects. And I'm sure the stresses of life add to our degradation. And scientists seem to not know what stance to take on what is good for you and what is bad for you. One moment coffee or dark chocolate is good for you and another it isn't.
Maybe I should have clarified that truth that is being expose...but you already know what I'm going to post...that we are sinners in need of a savior. Islam doesn't expose anything. It just more or less says that Allah is the one true ? and Mohammed is his messenger. It doesn't have anything significant to say about mankind's condition. It says we are all Muslims and that we just simply turned away. There is nothing redemptive about Islam. Anybody who is not Muslim must die according to Islam. And there is nothing that suggest that even their martyrdom will be rewarded in spite of the "virgins" Islam say awaits them in their heaven.
Well mankind doesn't have perfect medicines, but people are also living longer then ever too. So that means modern medicine is doing a lot of positives and people are also healthier then ever as well. The problem is that nature constantly comes up with clever ways to go around modern medicine and even parasites such as bed bugs and ticks are becoming resistant to human weapons. I do agree the stresses of modern society, especially financially, are freaking many people out. I've seen it in NYC, people as young as 20 homeless and begging for change. And I notice that savior is doing almost nothing to help solve the human and natural problems of the world.
As far as Islam, the Koran itself claims Islam is the only way to achieve purity from sin. The angel Gabriel read a series of lines to the prophet Mohammed and said Jesus is a false savior because HE did not expose the realities of sin lol.....and as of right now, Islam is still one of the fastest growing religions in the world, one billion strong and going. And Christianity is very harsh to non-believers too, those who don't believe will burn or suffer for all eternity according to the Bible. DOU says non-Christians will burn in flames in the afterlife, so isn't that pretty violent? Regardless, if the angel Gabriel came to Mohammed and told him all this stuff, then maybe the Bible ? wanted an update to his religion. Other Muslim clerics have claimed the angel Garbriel vouched for Mohammed lol, so who is telling the truth? -
Also, the Koran does claim to expose mankind's condition. It has many laws for human behavior and claims to be able to correct them. It outlaws debt with interest for example, because it believes it is a form of financial slavery. The Koran even advises nations to stay away from debt because it leads up to war.
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kingblaze84 wrote: »alissowack wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »alissowack wrote: »Birth defects can be manufactured too. Jesus is exactly where people want him...out of their lives. People want a miracles but when Jesus exposes what is the truth about mankind through the Bible...we don't want to hear it. We want something that makes us feel good about following Jesus until we don't need him anymore.
Getting rid of the disease of the world isn't going to keep somebody from being self centered. It's not going to stop people from hating one another. And, because of sin, it is not going to make people seek ? .
Birth defects can be manufactured, but most happen for natural reasons, parasites and viruses are other reasons among many others. Scientists have noted the human body wasn't designed very well to fight off many germs or parasites.
As far as the Bible "exposing" the truth, didn't the angel Gabriel or some other angel reveal himself to the prophet Mohammed, and state the new truth is the Koran? According to the prophet Mohammed, the Bible is an incomplete truth filled with scientific errors and lies, because the angel Gabriel came from heaven to proclaim the new, updated truth. Maybe the Bible ? wanted the Bible replaced with the Koran? Any theories on why the Biblical angel Gabriel would visit Mohammed and tell him directly the Bible is an incomplete lie?
So with so much conflicting information being out there, a book being a book isn't necessarily gonna prove something to anyone. I guess Jesus has given up on humanity and is trying to convert alien species out there, cuz he seems to have abandoned Earth completely. As the other gods have.
Mankind poorly treated is more like it. Like I've mentioned, we've created an environment for our demise. The foods we eat are not the same as it use to be. They are more prone to ? us than keep us healthy. Medicines intended to cure one problem has multiple side effects. And I'm sure the stresses of life add to our degradation. And scientists seem to not know what stance to take on what is good for you and what is bad for you. One moment coffee or dark chocolate is good for you and another it isn't.
Maybe I should have clarified that truth that is being expose...but you already know what I'm going to post...that we are sinners in need of a savior. Islam doesn't expose anything. It just more or less says that Allah is the one true ? and Mohammed is his messenger. It doesn't have anything significant to say about mankind's condition. It says we are all Muslims and that we just simply turned away. There is nothing redemptive about Islam. Anybody who is not Muslim must die according to Islam. And there is nothing that suggest that even their martyrdom will be rewarded in spite of the "virgins" Islam say awaits them in their heaven.
Well mankind doesn't have perfect medicines, but people are also living longer then ever too. So that means modern medicine is doing a lot of positives and people are also healthier then ever as well. The problem is that nature constantly comes up with clever ways to go around modern medicine and even parasites such as bed bugs and ticks are becoming resistant to human weapons. I do agree the stresses of modern society, especially financially, are freaking many people out. I've seen it in NYC, people as young as 20 homeless and begging for change. And I notice that savior is doing almost nothing to help solve the human and natural problems of the world.
As far as Islam, the Koran itself claims Islam is the only way to achieve purity from sin. The angel Gabriel read a series of lines to the prophet Mohammed and said Jesus is a false savior because HE did not expose the realities of sin lol.....and as of right now, Islam is still one of the fastest growing religions in the world, one billion strong and going. And Christianity is very harsh to non-believers too, those who don't believe will burn or suffer for all eternity according to the Bible. DOU says non-Christians will burn in flames in the afterlife, so isn't that pretty violent? Regardless, if the angel Gabriel came to Mohammed and told him all this stuff, then maybe the Bible ? wanted an update to his religion. Other Muslim clerics have claimed the angel Garbriel vouched for Mohammed lol, so who is telling the truth?
Let me but a little spin on the medicine thing. What if the issue is not whether medicines can be perfected...but whether the pharmaceutical companies "want" to perfect medicines. I'm not saying all medicines are bad, but the motives behind finding cures are more profit base; just do just enough to temporarily fix the problem but not so much to stop making money. And if any amateur researcher comes across some super cure for something and tries to go public, there is a chance they will either get shutdown or killed. There was a guy who found the links and cure for autism and they slammed his claims and was said he committed suicide...and in turn raided his home. Now it happens too that "bugs" can develop resistance so I don't want to dismiss it. But it is to say we are doing this to ourselves.
It's one thing to be told what is wrong to do and the right way to do it...and another to be told you are broken and only ? can fix you. Islam says it is something you can do to attain "purity". Christianity says there is nothing you can do. Islam tells you what to do for the body and does absolutely nothing about the soul...which is at the heart of our problem. Islam is "appealing" because it gives people a reason to think they can do this all by themselves. Christianity takes that away.
I believe Hell is not something that is imposed by ? . Those who are in Hell choose it. Their "fire" is to continue in that choice forever apart from ? . They are not stepping back and realizing they have done something wrong and should have listened...or even wanting to get out of Hell. They are caught up in this never ending cycle of repeating the same things they got away with over and over again like a machine...from bad actions to bad emotions.
If...Jesus not saving people from sin...is what people believe, ? will let them have their wish. -
@alissowack
There could be some people who have made cures for modern world problems, and maybe pharmaceutical companies and others don't want total cures. Let's say you are correct....what about things that humans DEFINITELY can't eradicate or cure, such as parasites and natural disasters like earthquakes and extreme cold?
You have acknowledged that parasites are difficult to eradicate, mosquitoes and bedbugs have been around since the beginning of time. For nature to constantly help parasites and diseases mutate is very contrary to the ? you believe in, I thought the Bible ? loves humans?? It gives me the impression the ? you believe in is somewhat heartless and uncaring if it knows homeless people sleep outside and yet it still allows severe cold, freezing people to death in a horrible and cruel way. Earthquakes ? thousands of people a year and leave many children in orphanages, often in nations that don't have much funding for them because of the past natural disasters they had to deal with. Once again, no action on your messiah's part. Why the laziness, it's been 2,000 years. Why should people follow a lazy ? ? People aren't going to change, so there should be no hold up.
As far as Islam and the soul, it says that you have to be a Muslim to be allowed passage in heaven. So it does deal with the soul. The punishment for non-Muslim souls in the afterlife is EXTREMELY unpleasant. So according to the Biblical angel Gabriel, who switched sides to Islam, being a Christian (or non-Muslim) leads to this.....
“Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Scalding water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall be lashed with rods of iron.
“Whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape from Hell, back they shall be dragged, and will be told: ‘Taste the torment of the Conflagration!'” Quran 22:19-20
--So both the Koran and Bible threaten people's souls when we die. I hope you're ready for that hot water to burn your head after you die lol -
@kingblaze84
...you also have this passage from the Koran
Sura 19:71-72
There will be no one of you who will not enter it (Hell).
This was an inevitable decree of your Lord.
Afterwards he may save some of the pious, ? -fearing Muslims out of the burning fire.
Again...all Islam boils down to is making a person believe there is something they can do to earn Allah's favor. Allah does not care about the soul. Everybody is going to Hell according to that passage. Even Mohammed was not sure he was going to Heaven.
If you don't believe that ? has done anything through Jesus, then it doesn't matter the state of the world. The issue is spiritual. -
alissowack wrote: »@kingblaze84
...you also have this passage from the Koran
Sura 19:71-72
There will be no one of you who will not enter it (Hell).
This was an inevitable decree of your Lord.
Afterwards he may save some of the pious, ? -fearing Muslims out of the burning fire.
Again...all Islam boils down to is making a person believe there is something they can do to earn Allah's favor. Allah does not care about the soul. Everybody is going to Hell according to that passage. Even Mohammed was not sure he was going to Heaven.
If you don't believe that ? has done anything through Jesus, then it doesn't matter the state of the world. The issue is spiritual.
That passage is interesting but from what I have read and studied, the Koran still says only righteous Muslims can escape the hell fire. Non-Muslims have no shot at escaping from hell, and according to Muslim scholars, the prophet Mohammed eventually went into heaven with angels by his side. I think Gabriel accompanied him up there too.
Now as far as Jesus and our spiritual salvation, it would seem more fair if Jesus had a meeting with our "souls" and to try to convince us then (since he won't bother to do so on Earth). Cuz to send people to hell for not believing kind of proves my point that the Bible ? is a giant meanie.
Would you at least acknowledge that your ? can appear harsh and mean to the non-religious? Maybe even sadistic, considering how cruel nature is to living things? -
I almost became atheist watching this video years ago.....footage of a pregnant animal being eaten alive by hyenas. Notice the hyenas literally tearing the baby fetus out of the living wildebeest!!!!!!! Also notice how the animal is eaten alive breathing as its fetus is hanging out. Nature in general is very cruel to living things, and savage behavior is the norm. The Abrahamic ? makes almost zero sense after watching this video.
Warning: extremely disturbing and horrifying
https://youtu.be/WpuFoid8J_Q
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But bruh, nature is objective. Nature isn't bad or good. It just is.
And I'd think that many theists would not compare the lives of animals to humans. And I'd think that many theists value (or should value) the afterlife much more than life on earth.
Thread title sounds like the old age question of "if ? exists, then why do bad things happen?" ? shouldn't be blamed for evil. Evil comes from humankind.
Imo, ? has made us free beings, and freedom is double-edged sword. If ? made us obedient robots, then yes, there probably wouldn't be evil, but we wouldn't be us. And if no evil existed, then what we know as good wouldn't exist or matter. You need yin to have yang, right? Binary oppositions create meaning for us.
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kingblaze84 wrote: »alissowack wrote: »@kingblaze84
...you also have this passage from the Koran
Sura 19:71-72
There will be no one of you who will not enter it (Hell).
This was an inevitable decree of your Lord.
Afterwards he may save some of the pious, ? -fearing Muslims out of the burning fire.
Again...all Islam boils down to is making a person believe there is something they can do to earn Allah's favor. Allah does not care about the soul. Everybody is going to Hell according to that passage. Even Mohammed was not sure he was going to Heaven.
If you don't believe that ? has done anything through Jesus, then it doesn't matter the state of the world. The issue is spiritual.
That passage is interesting but from what I have read and studied, the Koran still says only righteous Muslims can escape the hell fire. Non-Muslims have no shot at escaping from hell, and according to Muslim scholars, the prophet Mohammed eventually went into heaven with angels by his side. I think Gabriel accompanied him up there too.
Now as far as Jesus and our spiritual salvation, it would seem more fair if Jesus had a meeting with our "souls" and to try to convince us then (since he won't bother to do so on Earth). Cuz to send people to hell for not believing kind of proves my point that the Bible ? is a giant meanie.
Would you at least acknowledge that your ? can appear harsh and mean to the non-religious? Maybe even sadistic, considering how cruel nature is to living things?
But it's either one or the other. That passage even suggests that we all have to go there so it's not like in death the Muslim get a pass.
Again...I don't believe Hell is something ? imposes on mankind. We choose it ourselves. They don't see it as a "consequence" where they are. There is the impression that those in Hell are down there realizing they had made a mistake and they want out. -
But bruh, nature is objective. Nature isn't bad or good. It just is.
And I'd think that many theists would not compare the lives of animals to humans. And I'd think that many theists value (or should value) the afterlife much more than life on earth.
Thread title sounds like the old age question of "if ? exists, then why do bad things happen?" ? shouldn't be blamed for evil. Evil comes from humankind.
Imo, ? has made us free beings, and freedom is double-edged sword. If ? made us obedient robots, then yes, there probably wouldn't be evil, but we wouldn't be us. And if no evil existed, then what we know as good wouldn't exist or matter. You need yin to have yang, right? Binary oppositions create meaning for us.
I'm assuming you're speaking from a Christian perspective? Because I'm not even speaking of evil, I'm speaking of the world we live in being hostile to life in general, from mother nature's extremely harsh and cruel predator/prey system to natural parasites and diseases.
And I get nature is objective, but when animals cry and scream as they're being eaten alive, it means nature co-signs suffering and brutality. And if nature co-signs brutality and suffering, then what the hell kind of ? made this system, assuming a being who made this system is even worthy of being called a ? ?? Cuz it seems more like a demon or several demons made the world the way it is lol.....
By the way, humans are not truly free beings. Not everyone has free or good choices. Some people have to choose between bad choices and more bad choices, that's not free will at all. What free will exists for a baby born paralyzed and ? , what kind of ? choices does that poor baby have? In my opinion, the extremely harsh nature of the world makes many people look at religion as something of a joke, and legitimizes atheism or non-belief. Your "? " has made a truly sick and twisted world, it's not clear if your ? deserves the honor of being called a ? . -
alissowack wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »alissowack wrote: »@kingblaze84
...you also have this passage from the Koran
Sura 19:71-72
There will be no one of you who will not enter it (Hell).
This was an inevitable decree of your Lord.
Afterwards he may save some of the pious, ? -fearing Muslims out of the burning fire.
Again...all Islam boils down to is making a person believe there is something they can do to earn Allah's favor. Allah does not care about the soul. Everybody is going to Hell according to that passage. Even Mohammed was not sure he was going to Heaven.
If you don't believe that ? has done anything through Jesus, then it doesn't matter the state of the world. The issue is spiritual.
That passage is interesting but from what I have read and studied, the Koran still says only righteous Muslims can escape the hell fire. Non-Muslims have no shot at escaping from hell, and according to Muslim scholars, the prophet Mohammed eventually went into heaven with angels by his side. I think Gabriel accompanied him up there too.
Now as far as Jesus and our spiritual salvation, it would seem more fair if Jesus had a meeting with our "souls" and to try to convince us then (since he won't bother to do so on Earth). Cuz to send people to hell for not believing kind of proves my point that the Bible ? is a giant meanie.
Would you at least acknowledge that your ? can appear harsh and mean to the non-religious? Maybe even sadistic, considering how cruel nature is to living things?
But it's either one or the other. That passage even suggests that we all have to go there so it's not like in death the Muslim get a pass.
Again...I don't believe Hell is something ? imposes on mankind. We choose it ourselves. They don't see it as a "consequence" where they are. There is the impression that those in Hell are down there realizing they had made a mistake and they want out.
I don't think anyone CHOOSES to go to hell, who wants to burn in eternal hellfire? It's more like people need more proof before they believe. You claim those who don't believe in Jesus will go to hell, but yet a full 4 billion people in the world don't believe in Jesus!!!! 4 billion!!! 70% of the world at least.
Are you saying the Bible ? is so HARSH and MEAN that it will burn the souls of 4 billion people??? Isn't that sadistic and solid proof that your ? does NOT love most of humanity? Why does your ? have to be so close minded, why can't it be accepting of other beliefs and philosophies, especially those that are peaceful?
If it is willing to burn the souls of 4 billion people on Earth for all of eternity, then technically, the Bible ? is worse then ? . I say that because ? killed millions, but even he didn't torture billions of people. -
@kingblaze84
There is this saying that goes...if you are worshipping ? for fear of Hell, you are only turning up the flames.
The issue isn't whether people are choosing to burn or stay cool. The issue is whether people choose to be tormented by their own selfishness they've created or trust ? with self. The "fire" is to continue to live in our selfishness forever, unable to see that we've lived a life contrary to ? 's Will; to let our bad behaviors and perspectives rule us for eternity. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »I'm assuming you're speaking from a Christian perspective? Because I'm not even speaking of evil, I'm speaking of the world we live in being hostile to life in general, from mother nature's extremely harsh and cruel predator/prey system to natural parasites and diseases.
Yes, I'm speaking from a Christian perspective. Ok, I misinterpreted you, but I got you now. But I still think that that's only a small part of nature, and even then, nature isn't being cruel - that's just a meaning we assign to it based on our moral perspectives. We also have a hand in this "cruelty" via nurture, from creating? or worsening diseases to poking holes in the Ozone layer.kingblaze84 wrote: »And I get nature is objective, but when animals cry and scream as they're being eaten alive, it means nature co-signs suffering and brutality. And if nature co-signs brutality and suffering, then what the hell kind of ? made this system, assuming a being who made this system is even worthy of being called a ? ?? Cuz it seems more like a demon or several demons made the world the way it is lol.....
I disagree. I don't think that's nature cosigning suffering and brutality. I think that's nature just happening. Nature doesn't care about anything of that. It just exists, and then we do what we want or need to do and deal with the consequences. With respect to your apparent atheistic or agnostic beliefs, I think that when people judge ? , they're already starting off with an error. I don't think that it makes sense to judge ? based on standards that humans have created and adhere to. And yes, ? is merciful, but he's also wrathful (and people tend to forget that, wanting to focus only on the nice things), but how can humans judge ? ? It's supposed to be the other way around.kingblaze84 wrote: »By the way, humans are not truly free beings. Not everyone has free or good choices. Some people have to choose between bad choices and more bad choices, that's not free will at all. What free will exists for a baby born paralyzed and ? , what kind of ? choices does that poor baby have? In my opinion, the extremely harsh nature of the world makes many people look at religion as something of a joke, and legitimizes atheism or non-belief. Your "? " has made a truly sick and twisted world, it's not clear if your ? deserves the honor of being called a ? .
Imo, it doesn't matter what fate hands you. You still have choices, even if those choices are not desirable. You will always have a choice. I still consider that free will. Also, religion has much to say about "harsh" realities, so I wouldn't necessarily say that the harsh natures of the world makes religion look like a joke. I personally think my ? has made a beautiful world, and we have made it truly sick and twisted, but instead of taking responsibility, we blame other things like religion, money, guns, etc. After all, hubris/pride/ego is our original sin. -
where is the dude do u want to go to heaven????i saw a video on abortion,i never thought about.it showed the fetus fighting and moving away from the scalpel while the doctor was trying to ? it.thats crazy and sick to do babies like that.then it said black women abort 1 million babies a year.we all have to start making better decisions in reality with my life,your life all of our lives.
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alissowack wrote: »@kingblaze84
There is this saying that goes...if you are worshipping ? for fear of Hell, you are only turning up the flames.
The issue isn't whether people are choosing to burn or stay cool. The issue is whether people choose to be tormented by their own selfishness they've created or trust ? with self. The "fire" is to continue to live in our selfishness forever, unable to see that we've lived a life contrary to ? 's Will; to let our bad behaviors and perspectives rule us for eternity.
But why should the relationship between your ? and humanity be so one-sided? You say ? 's will, but there are many gods. Some gods are happy with pre-marital sex and drinking crazy. Some gods want people to do whatever they want. So your ? should do a better job or at least a more convincing job proving he is THE ? among gods. I don't see any evidence your ? is powerful anymore. Maybe at one point it was, but nowadays, it's in hiding.
It's like loving a father who was never there for you, not impossible but very difficult. In my case, it's close to impossible, as you can see lol. Like @Ether44mag said in another thread, how can I believe in something if it isn't doing anything. This is why I sometimes think if a ? existed, it died of old age or some other ? .
