To those who believe in a kind and merciful ? ....why is the world so hostile to life?
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The_Jackal wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »The_Jackal wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »The_Jackal wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »The_Jackal wrote: »I don't understand how you went to a Catholic school but you honestly know and understand so little of the bible. So I'll help you out. First let's rephrase your question and get a little philosophical is the world and nature truly hostile to life? No of course not nature and Earth neither approve or are hostile towards humans and animals. So what then does it come down to? Man. Why is man in a constant conflict with each other and why does the ? of the bible not interfere and correct the horrible path of destruction man is going down? The fundamental and only answer is free will.
Let's think about it and not to judge you but when you were thinking of this thread of ? lacking mercy did you stop to think of your own action. You could have brought them to your home, you could have gave them money to go to a shelter, you could have went home ? old coats you had and gave them it but most likely you didn't. Nothing wrong with it you don't know them if they were dangerous or not maybe you were in a date with ol girl and didn't have the money and decided to be on your way. What you and others who think like this suggest is that ? directly influences are life and there by taking away are own ability to chose are action which negates truly being just or unjust in society eyes
I stopped taking the Bible seriously in my sophomore year of Catholic high school lol, so the idea of original sin doesn't make sense to me. Didn't your ? know ahead of time humans would sin?
You can't say man is responsible for all the world's problems, there are many problems in the world that have nothing to do with man, disease, birth defects (most of whom don't have a known cause), hostile parasites that hurt many around the world, droughts, earthquakes, etc. These are things man hasn't created, and of course you can't explain that away.
And why is man in constant conflict with others? The biggest reasons are greed, resources and religion ironically. And as far as free will, we don't have total free will over our lives, some people have much worse choices compared to others. Think of someone born ? or mentally slow, how many options does that person have in much of the world compared to many others? Their choices are limited and many times desperate.
To your first paragraph like I said you have so little understanding and knowledge of the bible that you don't understand because you refuse to.
I didn't say they were responsible for all I said just that it ultimately comes down to man. I said nature and Earth just are they don't approve or disapprove they just happen it's not hostile or friendly in anyway.
Again try to shape it as much as you want and list as many reasons no matter how correct and incorrect your are it's still man. As far as you trying to pass off free will because of mentally retardation or financial difficulties it doesn't change the fact. At anytime at any mintue anyone can do anything they want wither it positively or negatively affect their life. It's as simple as that to say otherwise is to denounce all freewill
When you keep blaming man for the natural problems of the world, such as cancer, extreme cold, disease and earthquakes, are you speaking of original sin? Because that's a terrible excuse for the world being hostile to life, especially if the ? you believe in made humans faulty to begin with. Wouldn't a "merciful" ? completely forgive humans for original sin? Earth is very hostile to life, 99% of life that has ever existed has gone extinct.
And free will is an illusion because once again, not all choices are equal. Some people have the choice of making good choices and bad choices, while others have the choice between bad choices and more bad choices. Someone born in a nation that doesn't have health services or clean drinking water isn't gonna have the same choices in life as someone whose parents are well off and live in a stable environment.
I'm not blaming men I'm refuting your claim of nature being hostile. Diseases, exterme weather are not evil nor or they hostile. Nature cannot be hostile towards man. Diseases cannot be hostile towards men. At most they are indifferent which is why the whole premise of nature being hostile is wrong.
Free Will
The ability to act at one's own discretion.
No matter what choice is put in front of it you ultimately decided how to proceed. This isn't a debate about the difference of choices or they kind of choices that different people are given just that ultimately human can make there own choice and do whatever they want to in their life. At any time in anybody life you cam choice to leave your country, to abandon your family, to start a new life, to murder or rob or be a upstanding citizen. This is undeniably and you should take a good hard look at yourself if you think otherwise
You have GOT to be kidding me, diseases and extreme weather are not hostile to life????? So when diseases and tsunamis attack and ruin a person's body, causing suffering, that's not a hostile act??
Trying to survive and sleep in the freezing cold or rain isn't hostile on the body?? Come on man. I'm not saying mother nature is PURPOSELY trying to wipe out all life on Earth, but it damn well isn't welcoming to most of it either.
If I rented a home to someone and purposely put land mines and trap floors in it, people would say I'm being hostile to my tenant. Let's be real here.
What your saying now is completly different from what you said earlier
First you said why is the world and nature so hostile
I said it's not it's indifferent to everything on the planet.
Now your saying why is nature so hostile to our bodies. You always have to move the goalposts smh.
But to counter this majority of animals survive in exterme conditions and men have and continue to live in exterme conditions. Man continues to live longer and longer with the advancement of medicine to the point it might become a determinate. So how exactly is the world this dark merciless place you imagine it as
Many animals and humans do survive in extreme conditions, but it's often not a very pleasant life for things that live in those conditions. Penguins have tough lives, dealing not only with cold water that freezes their young to death many times, but also dealing with so many parasites that live and thrive in the water.
Yes many people are living longer then ever before, but many people are STILL living very brutal lives because of the harsh conditions of the planet, extreme heat which causes droughts and starvation for example. Look at all the people worldwide who don't have enough water to drink, because of nature putting forth droughts that wipe out many animals and humans all the time. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »There are literally hundreds maybe thousands of books by theologians who have answered this question already, Who have explained what the bible says is the answer to this question....Who have given great analysis on this topic
The earth is marred the whole of existence has been altered from what ? originally intended. Therefore suffering exists among man and in nature.
The Bible doesn't give a good answer to my question though. It gives horrible and contradictory ones. On one hand, Jesus "forgave" our sins but on the other hand, humans and others still suffer from what Adam and Eve did. Either your ? forgave the sins or he didn't. If your Bible ? is real, it would have made a clean slate after Jesus supposedly "died for our sins". In reality, nothing changed after his death, and it's why I can't take the Bible answers seriously, too many contradictions.
If my son breaks the tv I can forgive him but the tv is still broken. Christ opened a door to save your soul but your ass is still here it's not until he returns that the world will be different.
LMAO!!! So the Bible ? holds grudges for thousands and thousands of years?? Would you punish your son's great great grandchildren because your son ? up a TV set?
The Bible example is probably worse because Adam and Eve didn't even break anything, they ate a ? apple. The example you gave shows just how harsh and unforgiving the Bible ? is. After thousands and thousands of years, the mufucka can't forgive a few naked people eating a damn apple? SMH, that makes the Bible ? sound petty and silly. -
environment seems hostile to man because the nature of reality has changed
this whole argument is self centered and prideful because it come down to a belief that because the world does not work the way I want it to then there must be a problem with ? . there is death and there is suffering built into the current reality why should there not be??? -
kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »There are literally hundreds maybe thousands of books by theologians who have answered this question already, Who have explained what the bible says is the answer to this question....Who have given great analysis on this topic
The earth is marred the whole of existence has been altered from what ? originally intended. Therefore suffering exists among man and in nature.
The Bible doesn't give a good answer to my question though. It gives horrible and contradictory ones. On one hand, Jesus "forgave" our sins but on the other hand, humans and others still suffer from what Adam and Eve did. Either your ? forgave the sins or he didn't. If your Bible ? is real, it would have made a clean slate after Jesus supposedly "died for our sins". In reality, nothing changed after his death, and it's why I can't take the Bible answers seriously, too many contradictions.
If my son breaks the tv I can forgive him but the tv is still broken. Christ opened a door to save your soul but your ass is still here it's not until he returns that the world will be different.
LMAO!!! So the Bible ? holds grudges for thousands and thousands of years?? Would you punish your son's grandchildren because your son ? up a TV set?
The Bible example is probably worse because Adam and Eve didn't even break anything, they ate a ? apple. The example you gave shows just how harsh and unforgiving the Bible ? is. After thousands and thousands of years, the mufucka can't forgive a few naked people eating a damn apple? SMH, that makes the Bible ? sound petty and silly.
he is not holding a grudge but " we" through our sins have marred his perfect creation but he loves us enough to provide a saving mechanism and still allows us to stay in a world that's livable. however we have already marred reality. ? is not a genie he's not going to come down and easily fix everything after we have already messed things up.
the story is allegory it wasn't an actual apple. -
environment seems hostile to man because the nature of reality has changed
this whole argument is self centered and prideful because it come down to a belief that because the world does not work the way I want it to then there must be a problem with ? . there is death and there is suffering built into the current reality why should there not be???
The environment doesn't "seem" hostile, it IS hostile. Go hang outside Times Square in 5 degree weather outside and tell me how nice that feels. Go back in time, tell your parents to reject all the vaccinations they helped give you, and tell me how pleasant the environment would feel to you then.
And it's not that there is a problem with ? , hey, maybe the being or beings that created this world MEANT for it to be hostile to animals and others. But it goes to show Neil Tyson and others that if there IS a creator, it probably is not a loving or merciful one. If our creator is merciful, then I simply don't see the evidence or proof that it is. And people for obvious reasons don't like death or suffering, don't be silly.
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kingblaze84 wrote: »environment seems hostile to man because the nature of reality has changed
this whole argument is self centered and prideful because it come down to a belief that because the world does not work the way I want it to then there must be a problem with ? . there is death and there is suffering built into the current reality why should there not be???
The environment doesn't "seem" hostile, it IS hostile. Go hang outside Times Square in 5 degree weather outside and tell me how nice that feels. Go back in time, tell your parents to reject all the vaccinations they helped give you, and tell me how pleasant the environment would feel to you then.
And it's not that there is a problem with ? , hey, maybe the being or beings that created this world MEANT for it to be hostile to animals and others. But it goes to show Neil Tyson and others that if there IS a creator, it probably is not a loving or merciful one. If our creator is merciful, then I simply don't see the evidence or proof that it is. And people for obvious reasons don't like death or suffering, don't be silly.
you are the silly one because honestly death in a sinful world is a mercy would you rather live a in prison forever knowing that you are immortal??? if ? did not allow mortal death we would all live forever in what would basically be hell.
? in his mercy give mankind the brains needed to survive every environment on this ruined earth.
Without a certain amount of suffering would we fight to make this world better??? probably not -
And_So_It_Burns wrote: »The_Jackal wrote: »And_So_It_Burns wrote: »The_Jackal wrote: »Is the world and nature truly hostile to life? No of course not nature and Earth neither approve or are hostile towards humans and animals.
This statement is non-sense. Over 99% off all the species to ever exist on this earth are now extinct. The rapid an unexpected climatic changes on earth contributes significantly.The_Jackal wrote: »So what then does it come down to? Man. Why is man in a constant conflict with each other and why does the ? of the bible not interfere and correct the horrible path of destruction man is going down? The fundamental and only answer is free will.
? either intervenes or he doesn't. I think all of the monotheistic holy books make the case that he does interfer to a great extent. He even takes sides in wars.The_Jackal wrote: »Let's think about it and not to judge you but when you were thinking of this thread of ? lacking mercy did you stop to think of your own action. You could have brought them to your home, you could have gave them money to go to a shelter, you could have went home ? old coats you had and gave them it but most likely you didn't. Nothing wrong with it you don't know them if they were dangerous or not maybe you were in a date with ol girl and didn't have the money and decided to be on your way. What you and others who think like this suggest is that ? directly influences are life and there by taking away are own ability to chose are action which negates truly being just or unjust in society eyes
There's some truth to this. We can't rely on a silent ? to answer our prayers. We have to help each other out.
To the first statement isn't nonsense at all especially in the way he phrased the question. Like I said Earth and nature just is. Nature doesn't conspire against anyway so how could it fundamentally be hostile? I never said that creatures haven't been killed just that nature in itself isn't hostile. Better way to state it is that nature and the world is completly indifferent to every creature on it.
To the second part read the bible. He intervenes very little. I'm personal am a deist. He created the world to delivar his message and left us to our own devices.
And as far as Blaze goes I don't get why he pretends to be open about the possibility of a ? or atleast ? of the bible existing. It's very clearly he refuses to learn and has general scorn towards the whole religion.
I think you're mischaracterizing his question. You're responding as if he asked "is nature evil." or "does nature intend to do us harm" Of course not, it's pointless to personify nature. I don't think you can really dodge the question based on the way it was phrase. A better way would be asking is if the apparent hostility in nature is compatible with a merciful ? .
the story that ties all monotheistic religions together is based on ? intervening. In the story of Abraham. Then we have the floods in which ? obliterates all human and animal life . I'm not sure how consider murdering all life on earth with the exception of a lucky few as "intervenes very little" ? 's intervention is salient in the bible
Exactly, how can a world with so much outright hostility to human and animal life also be compatible with a merciful ? . Especially when these monotheistic religions constantly say that ? used to intervene with humankind, but when I was in Manhattan and saw all those people freezing in the cold, I didn't see anything from the heavens trying to help them.
It's not like most people have an extra home to give these people, so where is this merciful ? some people speak of. Didn't see it when the earthquakes killed 300,000 people in Haiti either.
*Waits for someone to say Haitians deserved it because some are into voodoo* -
kingblaze84 wrote: »environment seems hostile to man because the nature of reality has changed
this whole argument is self centered and prideful because it come down to a belief that because the world does not work the way I want it to then there must be a problem with ? . there is death and there is suffering built into the current reality why should there not be???
The environment doesn't "seem" hostile, it IS hostile. Go hang outside Times Square in 5 degree weather outside and tell me how nice that feels. Go back in time, tell your parents to reject all the vaccinations they helped give you, and tell me how pleasant the environment would feel to you then.
And it's not that there is a problem with ? , hey, maybe the being or beings that created this world MEANT for it to be hostile to animals and others. But it goes to show Neil Tyson and others that if there IS a creator, it probably is not a loving or merciful one. If our creator is merciful, then I simply don't see the evidence or proof that it is. And people for obvious reasons don't like death or suffering, don't be silly.
you are the silly one because honestly death in a sinful world is a mercy would you rather live a in prison forever knowing that you are immortal??? if ? did not allow mortal death we would all live forever in what would basically be hell.
? in his mercy give mankind the brains needed to survive every environment on this ruined earth.
Without a certain amount of suffering would we fight to make this world better??? probably not
It is a mercy for many to die, but it's not death itself that bothers most, it's HOW people and animals on Earth die. And before the death, the suffering many have to go through. And while some suffering is probably necessary to improve as a species, the AMOUNT of suffering throughout the world is unnecessary and almost pointless.
There is no point to an infant in Brazil or the Caribbean being born with tiny head syndrome because a damn mosquito gave its mother a brutal disease, especially if that infant is gonna die suffering a horrible death. That's just ? up and if you believe your ? made all that disease on purpose, then damn it's a ? up being. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »alissowack wrote: »Like DoU said...sin.
? wants us to see that His Kindness and Mercy is not based in the material...but the spiritual. Because of sin, we see the opposite. We think ? needs to meet our material needs in order to fill us spiritually. Mankind's hostility towards each other is because we are seeking something spiritual that we can't find in ourselves...so we lie, cheat, steal and ? .
This is the HUGE contradiction I'm talking about with Bible believers, if your boy Jesus "forgave" our sins, then why the hell are humans and animals still suffering from the "sins" of Adam and Eve? Are you trying to say Jesus and the Bible ? never truly forgave the sins of Adam and Eve?
And as far as mankind's hostility to each other, a lot of this was by design, because humans by nature are very aggressive and territorial. It's in our DNA, and plus humans have limited resources to deal with, because of NATURE being generally hostile to life.
Again...the issue is spiritual. What you want is things to appear at peace and no one physically hurt each other. But if we are not spiritually at peace with ourselves, it won't matter if ? allows for a non-violent world. Because of sin, we will find ways to ? the spirit of mankind without even lifting a finger.
? wants a personal relationship with mankind...not a business transaction. Jesus's forgiveness of sin was done out of love for mankind...not as some contract agreement which is what you are suggesting. What you want is the benefits of being in ? 's Favor instead of getting to know Him who grants favor. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »environment seems hostile to man because the nature of reality has changed
this whole argument is self centered and prideful because it come down to a belief that because the world does not work the way I want it to then there must be a problem with ? . there is death and there is suffering built into the current reality why should there not be???
The environment doesn't "seem" hostile, it IS hostile. Go hang outside Times Square in 5 degree weather outside and tell me how nice that feels. Go back in time, tell your parents to reject all the vaccinations they helped give you, and tell me how pleasant the environment would feel to you then.
And it's not that there is a problem with ? , hey, maybe the being or beings that created this world MEANT for it to be hostile to animals and others. But it goes to show Neil Tyson and others that if there IS a creator, it probably is not a loving or merciful one. If our creator is merciful, then I simply don't see the evidence or proof that it is. And people for obvious reasons don't like death or suffering, don't be silly.
you are the silly one because honestly death in a sinful world is a mercy would you rather live a in prison forever knowing that you are immortal??? if ? did not allow mortal death we would all live forever in what would basically be hell.
? in his mercy give mankind the brains needed to survive every environment on this ruined earth.
Without a certain amount of suffering would we fight to make this world better??? probably not
It is a mercy for many to die, but it's not death itself that bothers most, it's HOW people and animals on Earth die. And before the death, the suffering many have to go through. And while some suffering is probably necessary to improve as a species, the AMOUNT of suffering throughout the world is unnecessary and almost pointless.
There is no point to an infant in Brazil or the Caribbean being born with tiny head syndrome because a damn mosquito gave its mother a brutal disease, especially if that infant is gonna die suffering a horrible death. That's just ? up and if you believe your ? made all that disease on purpose, then damn it's a ? up being.
most human suffering is caused by man if we would actually treat each other better there would basically be no human suffering on earth except when cause by necessary natural death.
suffering is not point less suffering serves to teach mankind very important lessons and force us to invent ways to reduce that suffering. -
So many religious threads?
Why Yahweh doesn't come and save you ? is because only the strong are deserving of Yahweh's mercy and love. Look at David, this ? fought armies with 30 or 3 people at some given times, this ? was on his dynasty warrior ? , but you ain't, so why would he help you out. You and 2 other ? need to go out and wipe out an army beforehand. -
Ajackson17 wrote: »So many religious threads?
Why Yahweh doesn't come and save you ? is because only the strong are deserving of Yahweh's mercy and love. Look at David, this ? fought armies with 30 or 3 people at some given times, this ? was on his dynasty warrior ? , but you ain't, so why would he help you out. You and 2 other ? need to go out and wipe out an army beforehand.
As sarcastic as your post is I unironically agree. Nice job throwing shade on Blaze -
If ? steps in and does something does that negate freewill*?
*as in we are free to do as we do**
**which is ridiculous and false but w/e -
BiblicalAtheist wrote: »If ? steps in and does something does that negate freewill*?
*as in we are free to do as we do**
**which is ridiculous and false but w/e
In the premise of the thread it does. From a theological and philosophical stand point the second that he forces men to be merciful it automatically would negate the choice of you choosing to be merciful. Example being what I wrote in the first post about blaze walking past the homeless people. -
The_Jackal wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »So many religious threads?
Why Yahweh doesn't come and save you ? is because only the strong are deserving of Yahweh's mercy and love. Look at David, this ? fought armies with 30 or 3 people at some given times, this ? was on his dynasty warrior ? , but you ain't, so why would he help you out. You and 2 other ? need to go out and wipe out an army beforehand.
As sarcastic as your post is I unironically agree. Nice job throwing shade on Blaze
I'm really past what cats really believed in, if you are black then you need to be helping your people in the best way you can. Marcus Garvey, MLK JR, Frederick Douglass, Nat Turner, and etc were christians, Menelik I was a christian and whooped the Italian army.
Then you had Bookman and Hatians revolutionaries except Toussaint who was Catholic beat the French, English, and Spanish who were Voodun men.
Then you had Islamic men like Malcolm X, Elijah Muhummad, Noble Drew Ali and etc who worked with Christians, atheists, naturalists and etc for bettering the conditions of our people.
Any evangelists whether you are a believer or non believer is idiotic, now you want to teach that's fine. If you want to force down then you are ? wrong. Show by example and be a shining star, not a dying star needing new blood all the time. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »DoUwant2go2Heaven wrote: »Sin
I thought you said Jesus forgave and died for our sins? Are you trying to say him dying for our sins didn't make a difference in the long term?
1. For the believer, Yes, the death and Resurrection of Yeshua granted victory for all those who trust in what He did and in who He is.
2. But for the unbeliever, like yourself, the wrath of ? still abides on you because you are still condemned by the unconfessed and unrepentant sin in your life.
3. That is why you are trying to find loop holes on how to get out from under the judgment to come without dealing with the sin in your life.
4. Try as you may, even till you have wearied yourself with argumentation, ? will always get the last word because He has the ACE card in the hole.
5. That ACE card is death, and once ? requires your soul, you will give an account to Him about why you refused to believe. Amen.
6. And if that terrible fate falls upon you, there will be no arguments, no 2nd chances, no tears, no pleading, no mercy, no forgiveness, and no love for you on that day. Only wailing and gnashing of teeth will forever be your lot because you refused to humble yourself and admit that you were wrong and that ? is always right while living on this side of eternity. Amen.
[img]http://www.rubberontheroad.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/a-But-? .jpg[/img]
7. ...who is rich in mercy, for his great love where with he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, has quickened us together with Christ. For by grace we are saved! And has raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus! That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace we are saved through faith; and that is not of ourselves: it is the gift of ? : Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which ? hath before ordained that we should walk in them! Hallelujah!
But the question is do you want be raised up to sit in heavenly places or cast down to the bottom of the pit where the smoke of your torment will ascend up forever and ever? Yes, that is the question!
Amen.
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BiblicalAtheist wrote: »If ? steps in and does something does that negate freewill*?
*as in we are free to do as we do**
**which is ridiculous and false but w/e
1. No, because ? has already declared that He is going "step in and do something" when He executes judgment upon a Christ rejecting world.
2. Even during the tribulation period when ? steps in to judge a world that has rejected Him, mankind will still refuse to worship Yeshua with their own free will. Just look at the reaction of man after the 6th trumpet is completed:
"20And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: 21Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts." Revelation 9:20-21
3. Mankind will still refuse to repent from their wicked ways; even after 1/3 of whats left of humanity at the time of the 6th trumpet is killed by that judgment.
4. You see @BiblicalAtheist Even when ? intervenes with worldwide shaking judgments the sin of man will still cause man to rebel against his/her Creator.
5. The sin of man is embedded in our very nature and without the new birth from above, mankind will never learn righteousness. That is why ? says that we must be born again if we are to ever experience the joy of the LORD and the fellowship of His communion! Hallelujah! -
alissowack wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »alissowack wrote: »Like DoU said...sin.
? wants us to see that His Kindness and Mercy is not based in the material...but the spiritual. Because of sin, we see the opposite. We think ? needs to meet our material needs in order to fill us spiritually. Mankind's hostility towards each other is because we are seeking something spiritual that we can't find in ourselves...so we lie, cheat, steal and ? .
This is the HUGE contradiction I'm talking about with Bible believers, if your boy Jesus "forgave" our sins, then why the hell are humans and animals still suffering from the "sins" of Adam and Eve? Are you trying to say Jesus and the Bible ? never truly forgave the sins of Adam and Eve?
And as far as mankind's hostility to each other, a lot of this was by design, because humans by nature are very aggressive and territorial. It's in our DNA, and plus humans have limited resources to deal with, because of NATURE being generally hostile to life.
Again...the issue is spiritual. What you want is things to appear at peace and no one physically hurt each other. But if we are not spiritually at peace with ourselves, it won't matter if ? allows for a non-violent world. Because of sin, we will find ways to ? the spirit of mankind without even lifting a finger.
? wants a personal relationship with mankind...not a business transaction. Jesus's forgiveness of sin was done out of love for mankind...not as some contract agreement which is what you are suggesting. What you want is the benefits of being in ? 's Favor instead of getting to know Him who grants favor.
How are people as a whole supposed to get right spiritually? Unless a ? comes down and proves himself or herself to people worldwide, no one will have the same view. People will have their differences and resources and other animals will still compete for them.
If the environment wasn't so harsh to animals and humans worldwide, you would have a point. Many spiritual or religious places suffer from tsunamis, hurricanes, floods and everything else. There are cases of churches being hit with tornadoes during Christmas. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »environment seems hostile to man because the nature of reality has changed
this whole argument is self centered and prideful because it come down to a belief that because the world does not work the way I want it to then there must be a problem with ? . there is death and there is suffering built into the current reality why should there not be???
The environment doesn't "seem" hostile, it IS hostile. Go hang outside Times Square in 5 degree weather outside and tell me how nice that feels. Go back in time, tell your parents to reject all the vaccinations they helped give you, and tell me how pleasant the environment would feel to you then.
And it's not that there is a problem with ? , hey, maybe the being or beings that created this world MEANT for it to be hostile to animals and others. But it goes to show Neil Tyson and others that if there IS a creator, it probably is not a loving or merciful one. If our creator is merciful, then I simply don't see the evidence or proof that it is. And people for obvious reasons don't like death or suffering, don't be silly.
you are the silly one because honestly death in a sinful world is a mercy would you rather live a in prison forever knowing that you are immortal??? if ? did not allow mortal death we would all live forever in what would basically be hell.
? in his mercy give mankind the brains needed to survive every environment on this ruined earth.
Without a certain amount of suffering would we fight to make this world better??? probably not
It is a mercy for many to die, but it's not death itself that bothers most, it's HOW people and animals on Earth die. And before the death, the suffering many have to go through. And while some suffering is probably necessary to improve as a species, the AMOUNT of suffering throughout the world is unnecessary and almost pointless.
There is no point to an infant in Brazil or the Caribbean being born with tiny head syndrome because a damn mosquito gave its mother a brutal disease, especially if that infant is gonna die suffering a horrible death. That's just ? up and if you believe your ? made all that disease on purpose, then damn it's a ? up being.
most human suffering is caused by man if we would actually treat each other better there would basically be no human suffering on earth except when cause by necessary natural death.
suffering is not point less suffering serves to teach mankind very important lessons and force us to invent ways to reduce that suffering.
Necessary and natural death has to include flesh eating bacteria though? A lot of that ? can't be solved right now, so people just have to suffer and suffer from that until they find a way to cure it?
This is why the Biblical answers here aren't answering the question, it defies the Biblical idea of an "all powerful and loving ? ".
The real answer seems that if there is a ? , it is very distant and probably lost control of a lot of its functions or maybe other gods are competing with it for whatever reason. But of course, no one, so far has proof of anything.... -
Ajackson17 wrote: »So many religious threads?
Why Yahweh doesn't come and save you ? is because only the strong are deserving of Yahweh's mercy and love. Look at David, this ? fought armies with 30 or 3 people at some given times, this ? was on his dynasty warrior ? , but you ain't, so why would he help you out. You and 2 other ? need to go out and wipe out an army beforehand.
Only the strong deserve his love? LOL aight well I'm doing good then. A shame about many others though. -
DoUwant2go2Heaven wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »DoUwant2go2Heaven wrote: »Sin
I thought you said Jesus forgave and died for our sins? Are you trying to say him dying for our sins didn't make a difference in the long term?
1. For the believer, Yes, the death and Resurrection of Yeshua granted victory for all those who trust in what He did and in who He is.
2. But for the unbeliever, like yourself, the wrath of ? still abides on you because you are still condemned by the unconfessed and unrepentant sin in your life.
3. That is why you are trying to find loop holes on how to get out from under the judgment to come without dealing with the sin in your life.
4. Try as you may, even till you have wearied yourself with argumentation, ? will always get the last word because He has the ACE card in the hole.
5. That ACE card is death, and once ? requires your soul, you will give an account to Him about why you refused to believe. Amen.
6. And if that terrible fate falls upon you, there will be no arguments, no 2nd chances, no tears, no pleading, no mercy, no forgiveness, and no love for you on that day. Only wailing and gnashing of teeth will forever be your lot because you refused to humble yourself and admit that you were wrong and that ? is always right while living on this side of eternity. Amen.
[img]http://www.rubberontheroad.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/a-But-? .jpg[/img]
7. ...who is rich in mercy, for his great love where with he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, has quickened us together with Christ. For by grace we are saved! And has raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus! That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace we are saved through faith; and that is not of ourselves: it is the gift of ? : Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which ? hath before ordained that we should walk in them! Hallelujah!
But the question is do you want be raised up to sit in heavenly places or cast down to the bottom of the pit where the smoke of your torment will ascend up forever and ever? Yes, that is the question!
Amen.
I haven't been threatened online like that in a long time. Very scary stuff but let's say your Bible ? is real....
Why should I "believe" when it hasn't proven himself yet? When the savior comes according to the Old Testament, natural disasters would end. But we still have them after Jesus died and "forgave" our sins. So why do we still have earthquakes and tornadoes 2,000 years later? Somebody lied to you. -
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kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »environment seems hostile to man because the nature of reality has changed
this whole argument is self centered and prideful because it come down to a belief that because the world does not work the way I want it to then there must be a problem with ? . there is death and there is suffering built into the current reality why should there not be???
The environment doesn't "seem" hostile, it IS hostile. Go hang outside Times Square in 5 degree weather outside and tell me how nice that feels. Go back in time, tell your parents to reject all the vaccinations they helped give you, and tell me how pleasant the environment would feel to you then.
And it's not that there is a problem with ? , hey, maybe the being or beings that created this world MEANT for it to be hostile to animals and others. But it goes to show Neil Tyson and others that if there IS a creator, it probably is not a loving or merciful one. If our creator is merciful, then I simply don't see the evidence or proof that it is. And people for obvious reasons don't like death or suffering, don't be silly.
you are the silly one because honestly death in a sinful world is a mercy would you rather live a in prison forever knowing that you are immortal??? if ? did not allow mortal death we would all live forever in what would basically be hell.
? in his mercy give mankind the brains needed to survive every environment on this ruined earth.
Without a certain amount of suffering would we fight to make this world better??? probably not
It is a mercy for many to die, but it's not death itself that bothers most, it's HOW people and animals on Earth die. And before the death, the suffering many have to go through. And while some suffering is probably necessary to improve as a species, the AMOUNT of suffering throughout the world is unnecessary and almost pointless.
There is no point to an infant in Brazil or the Caribbean being born with tiny head syndrome because a damn mosquito gave its mother a brutal disease, especially if that infant is gonna die suffering a horrible death. That's just ? up and if you believe your ? made all that disease on purpose, then damn it's a ? up being.
most human suffering is caused by man if we would actually treat each other better there would basically be no human suffering on earth except when cause by necessary natural death.
suffering is not point less suffering serves to teach mankind very important lessons and force us to invent ways to reduce that suffering.
Necessary and natural death has to include flesh eating bacteria though? A lot of that ? can't be solved right now, so people just have to suffer and suffer from that until they find a way to cure it?
This is why the Biblical answers here aren't answering the question, it defies the Biblical idea of an "all powerful and loving ? ".
The real answer seems that if there is a ? , it is very distant and probably lost control of a lot of its functions or maybe other gods are competing with it for whatever reason. But of course, no one, so far has proof of anything....
Our definition on love and ? 's understanding of love are two different things you seem to forget that this is the same ? of the cross. Pain and suffering in life is not something that he has promised that he will always prevent humans from having to go through. In fact the closer you are to ? the greater chances of you suffering in the first place.
The scope and meaning of gods love and mercy are defined by the teachings of ? not by you, ? has not lost control of nature but he does not micromanage it either the laws of nature and physics are set in place and ? simply does not always interrupt them just cause they could cause us pain.
like I always say, it always comes back to the pride and self centeredness of man you want things to go the way you think they should go and when they don't go that way you either blame ? or reject him. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »alissowack wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »alissowack wrote: »Like DoU said...sin.
? wants us to see that His Kindness and Mercy is not based in the material...but the spiritual. Because of sin, we see the opposite. We think ? needs to meet our material needs in order to fill us spiritually. Mankind's hostility towards each other is because we are seeking something spiritual that we can't find in ourselves...so we lie, cheat, steal and ? .
This is the HUGE contradiction I'm talking about with Bible believers, if your boy Jesus "forgave" our sins, then why the hell are humans and animals still suffering from the "sins" of Adam and Eve? Are you trying to say Jesus and the Bible ? never truly forgave the sins of Adam and Eve?
And as far as mankind's hostility to each other, a lot of this was by design, because humans by nature are very aggressive and territorial. It's in our DNA, and plus humans have limited resources to deal with, because of NATURE being generally hostile to life.
Again...the issue is spiritual. What you want is things to appear at peace and no one physically hurt each other. But if we are not spiritually at peace with ourselves, it won't matter if ? allows for a non-violent world. Because of sin, we will find ways to ? the spirit of mankind without even lifting a finger.
? wants a personal relationship with mankind...not a business transaction. Jesus's forgiveness of sin was done out of love for mankind...not as some contract agreement which is what you are suggesting. What you want is the benefits of being in ? 's Favor instead of getting to know Him who grants favor.
How are people as a whole supposed to get right spiritually? Unless a ? comes down and proves himself or herself to people worldwide, no one will have the same view. People will have their differences and resources and other animals will still compete for them.
If the environment wasn't so harsh to animals and humans worldwide, you would have a point. Many spiritual or religious places suffer from tsunamis, hurricanes, floods and everything else. There are cases of churches being hit with tornadoes during Christmas.
You are supposed to build your own personal relationship with ? because even if he did reveal himself to the whole world people still would not believe in him especially if he does not do what they want him to do.
jesus walked the earth and basically did magic for people and still some would not believe -
kingblaze84 wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »So many religious threads?
Why Yahweh doesn't come and save you ? is because only the strong are deserving of Yahweh's mercy and love. Look at David, this ? fought armies with 30 or 3 people at some given times, this ? was on his dynasty warrior ? , but you ain't, so why would he help you out. You and 2 other ? need to go out and wipe out an army beforehand.
Only the strong deserve his love? LOL aight well I'm doing good then. A shame about many others though.
Lol, I was ? with folks, but apparently though...
