Let's End The Debate: Kareem Abdul Jabbar vs Michael Jordan
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NothingButTheTruth wrote: »
But Wilt scored 100 against a 6'1 white center so he's better than Russ -
Kareem Abdul JabbarNothingButTheTruth wrote: »This won't end the debate as Jordan is more popular, so Jordan will win EVERY poll no matter who he's put against. That's why Jordan is considered the GREATEST player, and not the most-skilled or simply the best player ever.
It's like arguing Biggie or Pac vs. a rapper who is a clearly better MC. Those 2 rappers are going to beat out everyone except each other.
Micheal Jackson is also on that level of popularity in his field. Muhammad Ali is the same in the field of boxing. The funny thing is, it's all a product of marketing and promotion, that the average viewer falls victim to.
... With that said, Jordan was extremely skilled, so he's easily the best combination of true skill mixed with a ridiculously amount of marketing and promotion. Jordan is truly better than 99.99% of the competition.
totally agree..
and Billfigger is still an idiot. -
Michael Jeffrey Jordanits....JOHN B wrote: »NothingButTheTruth wrote: »
But Wilt scored 100 against a 6'1 white center so he's better than Russ
Russell played those same white centers and averaged 15 ppg on 44% shooting. -
PanchoYoSancho wrote: »its....JOHN B wrote: »NothingButTheTruth wrote: »
But Wilt scored 100 against a 6'1 white center so he's better than Russ
Russell played those same white centers and averaged 15 ppg on 44% shooting.
You know what those centers averaged against him? -
Kareem Abdul JabbarThere's really no wrong answer
If there was a draft and you could choose Kareem or Jordan, I don't think there's a wrong choice. You could build a team around either player.
I think Kareem did better in his later years because he had that skyhook that was just unstoppable. Then again, MJ had that fade away jump shot. -
He's the most fundamentally sound player to ever play.
? wanna say things about marketing and timing on his part. But Michael Jordan's game stands on its own. The numbers, and his peers speak for themselves.
He did what Kareem did in 7 less years. -
StoneColdMikey wrote: »stop making cheap seats threads
Go watch WWE. -
Michael Jeffrey Jordanits....JOHN B wrote: »PanchoYoSancho wrote: »its....JOHN B wrote: »NothingButTheTruth wrote: »
But Wilt scored 100 against a 6'1 white center so he's better than Russ
Russell played those same white centers and averaged 15 ppg on 44% shooting.
You know what those centers averaged against him?
Nope, do you?
But I do know he played with like 10 Hall of Famers with 7 on one team at a time. -
Can't Compare Eras/Didn't Watch One, The Other, Or Both to Make an Educated GuesBOSSExcellence wrote: »the better player?? Kareem..
the greater player to the game of basketball?? Jordan..
i came to this conclusion and have gotten closure on this issue debating boxing (which im a casual fan of) wit a friend over Mayweather and Ali...
i argued Ali bein greater and better..
but because my boy was a lil bit more knowledgable then me in the sport i conceded.. but Mayweather will never mean as much to the sport of boxing and reach that status of Ali..
same wit basketball..
as dominant as Kareem was on every level.. ? balled since YMCA, lol he'll never mean to basketball what Jordan does..
and also Billfiger sounds like an idiot..
if im not mistaken he's from chicago so i guess its to be expected in a thread like this..
but there is no way to logically argue Jordan bein the better player.. thats jus emotions talking..
i have no comment in this debate im just curious
how do u logically argue kareem being better? -
Kareem Abdul JabbarPeezy_Jenkins wrote: »BOSSExcellence wrote: »the better player?? Kareem..
the greater player to the game of basketball?? Jordan..
i came to this conclusion and have gotten closure on this issue debating boxing (which im a casual fan of) wit a friend over Mayweather and Ali...
i argued Ali bein greater and better..
but because my boy was a lil bit more knowledgable then me in the sport i conceded.. but Mayweather will never mean as much to the sport of boxing and reach that status of Ali..
same wit basketball..
as dominant as Kareem was on every level.. ? balled since YMCA, lol he'll never mean to basketball what Jordan does..
and also Billfiger sounds like an idiot..
if im not mistaken he's from chicago so i guess its to be expected in a thread like this..
but there is no way to logically argue Jordan bein the better player.. thats jus emotions talking..
i have no comment in this debate im just curious
how do u logically argue kareem being better?
first logically argue jordan bein better witout usin media talkin points?? -
Can't Compare Eras/Didn't Watch One, The Other, Or Both to Make an Educated Gueslike i said i have no comment in this debate
ur the one that brought up that it was impossible arguing jordan was better, yet no one has logically argued why kareem is better. -
Kareem Abdul Jabbarhow bout stay out the debate then??
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Can't Compare Eras/Didn't Watch One, The Other, Or Both to Make an Educated Gueslol im not in it
i just asked a question. i dont have a problem if u are unable to answer but dont snap at me cuz u cant lol -
PanchoYoSancho wrote: »its....JOHN B wrote: »PanchoYoSancho wrote: »its....JOHN B wrote: »NothingButTheTruth wrote: »
But Wilt scored 100 against a 6'1 white center so he's better than Russ
Russell played those same white centers and averaged 15 ppg on 44% shooting.
You know what those centers averaged against him?
Nope, do you?
But I do know he played with like 10 Hall of Famers with 7 on one team at a time.
Would TP and Manu be hall of famers without Duncan? -
Can't Compare Eras/Didn't Watch One, The Other, Or Both to Make an Educated GuesIt's a shame people don't bring Kareem up more. The guy most definitely deserves to be brought up when you talk about the best ever NBA players of all time. I caught a few games of his on his retirement season so I can't really say honestly how great he was but I remember him still being effective.
Jordan is the best player I've actually ever seen play the game.
I honestly believe that Kareem doesn't get much love because he mad a lot of enemies within the media and he played when media coverage wasn't so vast. I mean you rarely hear this man mentioned when the best of all time is mentioned -
Only ? you should compare to Mike is Magic. Kareem definitely doesn't get the credit he's due though.
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Mike is the goat period.
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Kareem Abdul Jabbar? always get more love universally
this is america
Magic and Mike = ? .com -
Notice not one person saying kareem has made a case talking basketball skills/dominance that kaj is better than Jordan it's Wheaties,Space Jam,? ,Nike commercials etc that's their go to reply every rip
Is kaj career neck and neck with accolades? no doubt is he better basketball player than Mike? Nah you got dudes saying magic is better than jordan which is laughable when magic said himself mike the Goat -
Michael Jeffrey JordanTommy bilfiger wrote: »Notice not one person saying kareem has made a case talking basketball skills/dominance that kaj is better than Jordan it's Wheaties,Space Jam,? ,Nike commercials etc that's their go to reply every rip
Is kaj career neck and neck with accolades? no doubt is he better basketball player than Mike? Nah you got dudes saying magic is better than jordan which is laughable when magic said himself mike the Goat
Magic also said Kobe's the greatest Laker ever. He says a lot of dumb ? . Don't make it true. -
? always get more love universally
this is america
Magic and Mike = ? .com
Nah, Bill Russell and Wilt didn't even have Kareem in their top 5 ATL when they were interviewed in '97; Magic (and to a degree Oscar) deserves more credit than Kareem does for him winning titles and being on a contender bc Kareem didn't make his teammates better what so ever, the guy was the definition of hollow stats in the 70s post-Oscar/pre-Magic (his Prime years) and his MVPs were suspect, he won an MVP in '76 when his team was below .500 and missed the playoffs.
Im more familiar with his Laker years than Bucks (though i do know Dave Cowens sonnin him in G7 of the Finals in '74 that gets swept under the rug), and to my knowledge if he wasnt missin the playoffs Kareem was gettin bounced in the 1st/2nd round before Magic arrived despite having great players around him in Gail Goodrich, Norm Nixon, Adrian Dantley, Jaamal Wilkes, Lou Hudson etc...
Kareem also didn't even try on defense if he wasn't gettin his shots, point is, Kareem was a dominant offensive player that couldn't lead his team and make them close to a contender w/o two ATG PGs..
In a All Time fantasy draft if i had a team with a bunch of good players but it doesnt have top 15 All Time talent on it, then there's about 8-10 players All Time i would pick to lead my team over Kareem, and if i had a team full of scrubs then I'm not even thinkin about takin Kareem unless you like hollow stats, the 9th/8th seed and your team goin home in 5.
MJ>>>> -
Disclaimer -College and HS careers don't mean ? to me. That doesn't factor into my decision of who is the greater player All Time.
So Let's ignore the eye test... Because if you include that, IMO there isn't much of a case for KAJ.
For all intents and purposes, let's call their career accolades and accomplishments EVEN ... Jordan did a hell of a lot with less time, KAJ did more (in some areas) with longevity.
To me the true points of contention lie in the areas of their supporting casts and their respective dominance - dominance at their position, dominance of their era, and dominance in terms of value to their team.
Both were definitely dominant in their era and at their position - not much debate there.
However, most would argue that KAJ had the better supporting cast ...
(remember they accomplished roughly the same amount, one had a much better team)
But what's most damning is that many would argue that KAJ played with a player that was better than he was and the A1 player on his championship teams in LA.
You simply can't argue that with Jordan.
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Put it to you this way, swap Magic for Pippen on those Bulls and Laker teams.
Honestly ... Between Jordan and Magic, who would be the A1/ best player on the Bulls?...
Ok... How many rings do the Lakers win with Pippen instead of Magic? ...
Just let that marinate for a minute.
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Kareem Abdul JabbarObjectively speaking Kareem is the GOAT.
There are also cases to be made for Magic and Bill Russell being BETTER than Jordan, if not at least as good. The old school OGs of the game are up there as well, but have been forgotten about because the media was barely covering the NBA, let alone worshiping one particular player for an entire decade because it was "good for business."
As a couple of posters before have said, Michael Jordan NEVER won ANYTHING without Scottie Pippen. Jordan absolutely could not beat Larry Bird or Isiah Thomas until both were old and their teams injured. It was the perfect storm that right as the old guard got old and injured, the Bulls got Scottie AND Phil AND the NBA EXPANDED by 6 teams between '89-95, which also diluted the talent pool and the Bulls became more complete just as teams were being spread thin and losing talent.
Also, Jordan's first ring came against a shell of the 80s Lakers. Yeah Magic was there (and BALLED on Jordan when playing one on one BTW), but Cooper, Nixon, Wilkes, Rambis, and Kareem were all gone by then. And Byron Scott and James Worthy were both hurt that series and didn't even play the final game. Jordan did not beat SHOWTIME.
Jordan is Top 5 in my book, but I don't buy into the Disney Hero/ Untouchable/ Stephen A. Smith's ? -like figure that the media makes Jordan out to be. He was the best player of the 1990s and ONE of the greatest ever. That's it.
It's all about the branding of his image...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPn1J07F10E"[/url]
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Jordan ain't never had a supporting cast as strong as LA, Boston, or Detroit in the 80s.
That's why he was going home every year. People seem to ignore this fact. Of course he didn't play Showtime! He didn't have a team good enough to compete with them.
Boston and LA where always in the race because they had historically great teams. That is a fact.
"He didnt start winning til he got Pippen"
That's simply not true.
Pippen was drafted in 87 and its not like he came through and crushed the buildings.
Pippen didn't become the legit second best player til like his 3rd year when he was selected an All-Star.
Bulls didn't win their first ship til 91 so where does that argument come from that Jordan didn't win til Pippen got there? -
Kareem Abdul JabbarBreezy_Kilroy wrote: »Jordan ain't never had a supporting cast as strong as LA, Boston, or Detroit in the 80s.
Yes that's true. But since LeBron gets hated for not thriving with a weak cast, Jordan doesn't deserve a pass either. It's a double standard that only LeBron catches heat for.That's why he was going home every year. People seem to ignore this fact. Of course he didn't play Showtime! He didn't have a team good enough to compete with them.
While you're telling the truth, I've heard so many Jordanites claim he beat Showtime. He did not."He didnt start winning til he got Pippen"
That's simply not true.
Pippen was drafted in 87 and its not like he came through and crushed the buildings.
Pippen didn't become the legit second best player til like his 3rd year when he was selected an All-Star.
Bulls didn't win their first ship til 91 so where does that argument come from that Jordan didn't win til Pippen got there?
The argument that Jordan didn't win until Pippen got there comes from the fact Jordan didn't win until Pippen got there. As I said before, Jordan has never won anything without Scottie Pippen. There's really not much more to say. Pippen had a much better post-season career than Michael.
We can talk about Pippen's Blazers vs. Jordan's bulls, etc. but again, according to the Jordanites and ESPN, Michael's "competitive drive" should have allowed him to "will" the Bulls to victory single-handedly. After all, Michael Jordan "elevated" his teammates and "made everyone around him better," so where does that argument come from considering the numbers don't show that and the Bulls and Wizards never won with him at the helm by himself?
I'm just sayin...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEs4KC4xHE0
