Off-duty NYPD pig kills a Blk man in front of his GF & 3 kids in a road rage incident. Update: Vid +

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Comments

  • 5th Letter
    5th Letter Members, Moderators, Writer Posts: 37,068 Regulator
    Isn't new York a fLee first state? Like all possible options of escape have to have failed before using deadly force.

    That don't apply to cops.
  • white sympathizer
    white sympathizer Members Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭✭
    Plutarch wrote: »
    Kwan Dai wrote: »
    This dumb ? just start attacking me out the blue id shoot his ass too, five-o was in the right

    lol... and what do u think would happen to your non-cop ass if u shot an unarmed man in NY?

    Itd be called self defense and id walk

    It most certainly wouldn't. You'd be doing 3-5 just for having the fire arm.

    he dont live in reality with the rest of us...


    you are talking to someone that rationalizes things like an angsty teenager that doesn't realize his own mortality.

    For a minute, I had mixed you two up and merged you into one person. Why do you have matching names? ? looks weird.

    cause the ? lacks a mentor obviously.

    How sway, you little midget ? , you look up to me literally.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Regulator
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • D. Morgan
    D. Morgan Members Posts: 11,662 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Plutarch wrote: »
    D. Morgan wrote: »
    Of course its reasonable and that argument has to happen no question about that.

    Huh? Ok, but when you said, "Can't get into an argument with someone walk up on start beating them up and then cry foul when said person shoots their attacker," it didn't sound like what you're saying now. Kind of sounds the opposite.
    D. Morgan wrote: »
    Thing is I don't believe for a second these people are really fearing for their lives. IMO the gun is just the quickest way for them to end a situation where they are on the losing in end of. Its also a way to cover up their wrongs because usually with the other persons death only one person left who was involved can tell their side of the story.

    Agreed.

    Even with me saying this "Can't get into an argument with someone walk up on start beating them up and then cry foul when said person shoots their attacker" never meant its not other variables involved and no dialogue to be had about the situation. I just mean by that statement for folks to not act like the person who got shot for punching someone in the face is an innocent angel and they got shot for no reason at all.
  • Copper
    Copper Members Posts: 49,532 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I want a witness statement
  • D. Morgan
    D. Morgan Members Posts: 11,662 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Kwan Dai wrote: »
    D. Morgan wrote: »
    Kwan Dai wrote: »
    D. Morgan wrote: »
    Kwan Dai wrote: »
    D. Morgan wrote: »
    I don't know about this one. Can't get into an argument with someone walk up on start beating them up and then cry foul when said person shoots their attacker.

    Neither do I but that is the police's account of what happened.

    Perhaps you missed this.

    “Delrawn and the cop’s car almost hit each other. And Delrawn got out of the car and the cop just jumped out and started screaming. He just shot (Small) right there on the street,” said construction worker Lloyd Banks. 43. “(He) was unarmed. His (girlfriend) and kids were still in the car. They saw everything.”

    We gonna see how it plays out.

    I think I know how it will play out. As it's already the same wash, rinse and repeat process. They have already sowed the idea that the officer was attacked randomly and feared for his life. Text book. Open and shut.

    That is a given.

    I meant more from a witnesses stand point and what is going to be said. There will be witnesses who might say that man had every right to punch dude in the face a few times based on what the officer may have said to the other guy.

    That is really the reason why I said "I don't know about this one". A lot ? to still be put into play. At least for my own personal belief of how it may have went down. With who is right and who is wrong.

    If, we are just going to go off of our own belief then the cop is wrong in addition to being a coward. He had a firearm the deceased didn't. A trained officer not being able to ward off a would be attacker is a big problem from where I sit.

    I 100% agree with the bold but thing is it seems that these officers trained or not don't want to ward off a so called attacker their plan is to ? these people and go home cause they know they going to get away with. So they have no reason to use any deescalation techniques.
  • LcnsdbyROYALTY
    LcnsdbyROYALTY Members Posts: 13,763 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Copper wrote: »
    I want a witness statement

    It's a witness statement in the OP
  • Copper
    Copper Members Posts: 49,532 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I mean a witness statement not from a g-unit member


    “Delrawn and the cop’s car almost hit each other. And Delrawn got out of the car and the cop just jumped out and started screaming. He just shot (Small) right there on the street,” said construction worker Lloyd Banks.
  • iron man1
    iron man1 Members Posts: 29,989 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't buy this story until I hear the families view on what happened.
  • Dazzling
    Dazzling Members Posts: 410 ✭✭✭
  • deadeye
    deadeye Members Posts: 22,884 ✭✭✭✭✭
    D. Morgan wrote: »
    I don't know about this one. Can't get into an argument with someone walk up on start beating them up and then cry foul when said person shoots their attacker.


    True.



    Notice the family didn't say one word about how this could've been avoided if dude didn't attack the officer.



    Everything was.........the officer could've done this, the officer could've done that........he was such a good man, he didn't deserve this.



    I understand the family's grieving and everything.......but that doesn't absolve him of his role in what happened.



    If you're such a great family man, why are walking over to somebody else's car and punching them in the face through the window?



    Hate to say it, but it might be a blessing in disguise that his kids saw this so that they'll have an idea of what can happen to you when you act like you don't have any sense.
  • deadeye
    deadeye Members Posts: 22,884 ✭✭✭✭✭
    deadeye wrote: »
    D. Morgan wrote: »
    I don't know about this one. Can't get into an argument with someone walk up on start beating them up and then cry foul when said person shoots their attacker.


    True.



    Notice the family didn't say one word about how this could've been avoided if dude didn't attack the officer.



    Everything was.........the officer could've done this, the officer could've done that........he was such a good man, he didn't deserve this.



    I understand the family's grieving and everything.......but that doesn't absolve him of his role in what happened.



    If you're such a great family man, why are walking over to somebody else's car and punching them in the face through the window?



    Hate to say it, but it might be a blessing in disguise that his kids saw this so that they'll have an idea of what can happen to you when you act like you don't have any sense.


    This is, of course, assuming what I read in the o/p is an accurate account of what happened.


    Otherwise, R.I.P.
  • the dukester
    the dukester Members Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Anytime ambiguity surrounds an officer-involved, shooting & killing a black man. I ALWAYS give the benefit of the doubt to the non-cop, before "eye-test" facts roll in.

    Fool me once (Walter Scott shooting before the video evidence was released) shame on you, fool me twice, shame on all of us.
  • Stiff
    Stiff Members Posts: 7,723 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2016


    “He could have rolled up his window, he could have driven away,” Wareham said. “He did not have to shoot him.”

    “Take off. Roll up your window. Avoid any kind of confrontation,” Barron said of the off-duty cop, comments echoed by the family’s attorney. “For him to discharge his weapon three times and take one’s life over some kind of verbal confrontation is outrageous. We are demanding justice.”

    I dont know...this the part that makes it seem like what the police are saying is true. Like they wanted dude to be able to just walk up to him and start swinging on him and traffic and the pig should've just took the L and drove off. Sad situation either way and speaks even more to the mentality of cops ...get punched a few times and then immediately fear that you're on the verge of death (so you claim) and start firing off shots.
  • semi-auto-mato
    semi-auto-mato Members Posts: 2,833 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They have to stop the fear for my life as a justified excuse. ? cut me off the other day and the first thing I thought was that ? could have killed me. Now if I shot the dude they would have charged me with murder.

  • deadeye
    deadeye Members Posts: 22,884 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stiff wrote: »


    “He could have rolled up his window, he could have driven away,” Wareham said. “He did not have to shoot him.”

    “Take off. Roll up your window. Avoid any kind of confrontation,” Barron said of the off-duty cop, comments echoed by the family’s attorney. “For him to discharge his weapon three times and take one’s life over some kind of verbal confrontation is outrageous. We are demanding justice.”

    I dont know...this the part that makes it seem like what the police are saying is true. Like they wanted dude to be able to just walk up to him and start swinging on him and traffic and the pig should've just took the L and drove off. Sad situation either way and speaks even more to the mentality of cops ...get punched a few times and then immediately fear that you're on the verge of death (so you claim) and start firing off shots.


    Exactly.


    The fact that the family isn't disputing that he was punching the cop through the window leads me to believe that ........well........he was indeed punching the cop through the window.


    In which case, this shooting shouldn't be lumped in with situations in which cops have shot and killed black people unprovoked.
  • 7figz
    7figz Members Posts: 15,294 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In the current environment, anybody who buys a cop's story, against probability and witness accounts, is useless to the movement.
  • Tyree23
    Tyree23 Members Posts: 13
    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/07/04/brooklyn-police-road-rage-shooting/
    Police: Off-Duty Cop Fatally Shoots Man In Brooklyn Road Rage Incident

    NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — An apparent road rage incident involving an off-duty NYPD officer turned deadly early Monday morning.

    The officer was stopped at a red light after a traffic dispute when a 38-year-old driver attacked the officer, who was seated in his personal car, by repeatedly punching him in the head through an open window, police said.

    The officer pulled out his gun and shot three times at the other driver, striking him in the head. He was shot in front of his wife and two children. The man was pronounced dead at the scene, WCBS 880’s Kelly Waldron reported.

    Family members identified the victim to CBS2’s Magdalena Doris as Delrawn Small. They said he wasn’t armed and should still be alive today.

    “His wife was in the car with him. His two kids were there,” said Victor Dempsey, the victim’s brother. “They were going to see fireworks up by whatever park is in the neighborhood.

    “It has to stop. It’s not right that they just get a gun and a badge and they can do what they want to do,” Victor Dempsey continued.

    CBS2’s Christine Sloan reported the incident happened just before midnight on Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn where Small was visiting childhood friends at a barbershop to celebrate the holiday weekend.

    Small’s friend said the officer was “out of control.”

    “My brother was a loving, kind father. He was out here working trying to provide for his family and he was killed in front of his family by a cop out here out of control,” Keith said.

    Dempsey’s family, their lawyer Roger Wareham and New York City Councilman Charles Barron returned to the scene later Monday morning for a news conference, 1010 WINS’ Glenn Schuck reported.

    “He could have rolled up his window, he could have driven away,” Wareham said. “He did not have to shoot him.”

    “Take off. Roll up your window. Avoid any kind of confrontation,” Barron said of the off-duty cop, comments echoed by the family’s attorney. “For him to discharge his weapon three times and take one’s life over some kind of verbal confrontation is outrageous. We are demanding justice.”

    The officer, whose name has not been released, claims his life was in danger, police said.

    “I’m here, and I’m distraught because I know he’s a great man,” Victor Dempsey said of his brother. “This is somebody that I looked up to. This is somebody that pushed me to do better, the same way I pushed him to do better. It hurts to see them going so far and doing so much to just get stopped dead in your tracks, literally.”

    The family said they’re concerned they may not get all of the answers they are looking for.

    “It hurts more when it is by the hands of someone that’s supposed to be protecting us,” Victor Dempsey said. “Now all I’m seeing is them protecting themselves.”


    The New York State Attorney General’s office said it is actively reviewing the case.

    “Members of the Attorney Genera’s Special Investigations and Prosecutions Unit are in contact with the NYPD, the victim’s family, and community leaders. SIPU has a search warrant for the officer’s car and is actively reviewing the case,” Eric Soufer, spokesman for New York State Attorney General Eric Schneiderman, said in a statement.

    The off-duty officer, a three-year veteran assigned to the 79th Precinct in Bedford-Stuyvesant, is recovering at Jamaica Hospital from cuts and bruises to his head and face. There have been no charges filed.

    Police Commissioner Bill Bratton said Monday afternoon that the cop had just finished a shift and was likely headed home at the time of the incident. Police believe he used his service weapon in the shooting.

    “It’s much, much too early to draw any conclusions at this time,” Bratton said. “It is a protocol that our Force Investigation Division will do a very comprehensive initial investigation. We’re gathering a lot of video from the area, cameras that we were able to identify. We have talked with the officer.”

    Police won’t say what the original dispute was that led to the confrontation. Police are not releasing anymore information until the NYPD’s Force Investigation Division determines exactly what happened.


    Was a cac?
  • Swiffness!
    Swiffness! Members Posts: 10,128 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i mean the legal standard for on duty officers using self-defense is ridiculously low obviously......this guy wasn't on duty tho.

    I bolded the key phrases:

    "How does self-defense work in New York?"

    "In New York, the law of justification is codified in Penal Code Article 35. The key to understanding justification is to recognize that it is all about proportionality and reasonableness. Your response to an attack has to be proportional to the attack that you are defending yourself from. For example, if a person comes up to you and starts to punch you in the face, you may be justified in punching him back to defend yourself. However, in that same hypothetical, you would not be justified in taking out a gun and shooting your attacker dead. However, if your attacker pulled out a knife you may be justified in shooting him. It all depends. The attack or threat of attack must also be imminent. So if a local mafioso comes to your store and says he wants weekly payments or he’ll break your legs, you can’t use justification in this context. You also can’t use justification if you are the initial aggressor.

    The key issue in determining whether you are legally entitled to defend yourself is whether you subjectively believe that you must use physical force to defend yourself AND whether your belief is objectively reasonable. In other words, not only do you need to actually believe that you need to use physical force, but a neutral and average person looking at the situation from your perspective must have come to the same conclusion. It is the existence of this second prong that usually allows prosecutors to defeat a claim of justification. For example, if a person truly believes that he is about be robbed by a panhandler who is asking him for change, he may still not be justified in shooting him dead if a neutral observer would conclude that his belief was not objectively reasonable.

    As confusing as all of this is, when you are dealing with what the law calls “deadly physical force,” it gets even more confusing. You are allowed to attack your attacker as long as you are only using physical force. However, the law is different if you are going to use “deadly physical force.” Deadly physical force is defined as “physical force which, under the circumstances in which it is used, is readily capable of causing death or other serious physical injury.” There are two main differences between when you are allowed to use physical force and when you’re allowed to use deadly physical force. First, you can only use deadly physical force when you subjectively believe (and the belief is objectively reasonable) that deadly physical force is being used on you. Second, you CANNOT use deadly physical force if you can retreat to complete safety (hence no stand your ground). So if you are in a situation in which your attacker is running after you with a knife, but you are in a car, under New York law, you are guilty of murder if you get out of your car and ? your attacker if you could have safely driven away. The duty to retreat, however, does not apply in a situation in which you are in your home. This is called the “castle doctrine.” The doctrine stems from the idea that your home is your castle and you should be able to defend it if necessary without having to run away."

    http://www.nycriminallawyerblog.com/2014/05/20/self-defense-work-new-york/
  • blacktux
    blacktux Members Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If the story is true then the officer was justified.

    At the end of the day they are just men in uniforms.

    If a dude run up on me and start swinging its over for him, not worried about his wife and kids.
  • gns
    gns Members Posts: 21,285 ✭✭✭✭✭
    blacktux wrote: »
    If the story is true then the officer was justified.

    At the end of the day they are just men in uniforms.

    If a dude run up on me and start swinging its over for him, not worried about his wife and kids.

    How?
    Literally days ago there was a cracka driving in front of me but in the right lane, he was a younger white guy. He slammed on his brakes whipped open his car door in the middle of ongoing traffic(leaving me to have to swerve to avoid him and his door) and he tried to fight a cac behind him. Cac 2 had his windows up and wouldnt engage and dude just yelled and left.

    You telling me cac 2 that had his window up had a right to pop young cac who threatened him? Cause the only difference is in the "alleged" story being told is one guy was a cop and one wasnt.

    These road rage ? happen all the time. Sometimes its just yelling sometimes it gets physical dont nobody be dying over them ? like that. The ? actually trained to handle situations more n anybody tho be going to extremes the most.

    And I dont believe the cop.
  • MistyKnight
    MistyKnight Members Posts: 7,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I can't believe how stupid people can be these days. Do these idiots not know that the media is one of white supremacists biggest tools? And that they purposely fabricate false facts and always try to make suspects/victims look guilty when they are BLACK?

    Look at how the article is written. They made sure to mention that the victim was an ex-con and they made sure to mention that the cop was a veteran. They purposely try to paint a picture of black men being violent, an ex con, a thug, etc.

    Yall need to wake your ? up and stop believing everything you see and read in the news.

    I bet when this video comes out its gonna be a whole different story.
  • stringer bell
    stringer bell Members Posts: 26,212 ✭✭✭✭✭
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWi0jG1fTBE
    On Friday, video footage was released showing the moments leading up to Small’s death. The surveillance footage taken at the intersection is grainy, yet shows Small exit his vehicle and walk up to the officer’s driver’s side window before shots were fired. From the footage, which admiringly is grainy, it appears Small never attacked the officer. Within seconds you see Small attempt to flee as the officer fires at him. The officer then gets out of his car, checks on Small, then goes back to his car before the video cuts off. ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
    ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
    The officer has been identified as Officer #WayneIsaacs of NYPD. Not only did the newly released footage contradict Issacs' claims, it also contradicts claims of the owner of a nearby building who insisted the "angry motorist" could be seen “punching the sh*t” out of Isaacs.

    Another pig caught lying again...
  • optimistic
    optimistic Members Posts: 659 ✭✭✭✭✭
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWi0jG1fTBE
    On Friday, video footage was released showing the moments leading up to Small’s death. The surveillance footage taken at the intersection is grainy, yet shows Small exit his vehicle and walk up to the officer’s driver’s side window before shots were fired. From the footage, which admiringly is grainy, it appears Small never attacked the officer. Within seconds you see Small attempt to flee as the officer fires at him. The officer then gets out of his car, checks on Small, then goes back to his car before the video cuts off. ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
    ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
    The officer has been identified as Officer #WayneIsaacs of NYPD. Not only did the newly released footage contradict Issacs' claims, it also contradicts claims of the owner of a nearby building who insisted the "angry motorist" could be seen “punching the sh*t” out of Isaacs.

    Another pig caught lying again...

    On that note, when these cops make official statements that are found to be blatant lies, why are perjury charges never brought against them?
  • Trillfate
    Trillfate Members Posts: 24,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This one is OFF my radar, sorry