To those who believe in the power of prayer, does ? or the heavens keep a waiting list?
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BiblicalAtheist wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »BiblicalAtheist wrote: »? only answers prayers asking for understanding.
When you say ? answers prayers for understanding, do you mean for an understanding of our life in general, or an understanding of the situation we may be praying on?
Any understanding. However the answer may not come instantaneously and you have to be open to where it might come from.
Aight that's cool, understanding our lives on a deeper level is always helpful but my friend already understands why her daughter is so sick, asthma lol.....there's not much else for her to understand, her daughter now needs an even more expensive machine to help her breath now. It's gonna be a rough summer for her, her lungs don't look good in X-Rays.....
As far as me, knowledge (true knowledge) from any source is definitely welcome, don't care where it comes from, as long as it benefits me or those around me in some way. Meditating has worked great for me in that regard. Prayer though is the big question mark, not sure if I've ever got understanding from that. -
En-Fuego22 wrote: »Black people has been praying since slavery and what do we have to show for it?
Hmmm great point......not even just slavery, dealing with oppressors on a worldwide level. I remember praying on that in my Christian days, asking and hoping "? " would let me know why it allowed all that ? to happen. Never got an answer lol -
kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »good prayer serves as a way to align yourself with the will of ? not to try and get what your will desires.
you cannot just pray like your are begging a genie for favors and expect to always get what you want.
the reason I believe in the power of prayer is because it works I have seen it work and experienced it working for me
If you really want to hear from ? you have to have a relationship with him
I myself have felt that my prayers have been answered at times, whether it was luck or not, my wishes have come true many times.
As far as building a relationship with ? , that's the weird part, with which ? ? It's why when I do pray, which is rare, I pray to the universe or the heavens. I can't think of any specific ? I should be praying to because while I may sense a higher power, I can't put a face to it. I'm still not 100% convinced the higher powers that may be out there are truly gods, but I'm still open to gods or a ? existing.
Any body can have there prayers answered because what they want maybe what ? is willing to allow.
WHICH ? ??? that you have to learn for yourself and find your faith yourself..... if you ask me the true ? is the ? of Abraham. higher powers??? ? is the highest power, there may be lower powers like demons so maybe they can grant your wishes but that doesn't mean they are gods or that your prayer was answered by ?
Interesting, so you believe other higher powers out there aside from your ? can possibly answer prayers.
Maybe your ? is the "highest" power (doubtful of course), but if other forces out there can answer prayers, I'm sure many would welcome that. My friend's daughter is feeling worse from the asthma today and is now in the hospital smh, I'm sure she would welcome help from any source now.
No. there cannot be a hierarchy of gods, there can only be one true ? because a ? has to be supremely powerful in his capacity. In other words a ? has to be sovereign and all powerful if there are multiple gods then that means neither are sovereign and all powerful.
I believe in other spiritual forces but they are GODS.... THEY DO have power but they are not all powerful so maybe a demon may answer a prayer but keep in mind it's a demon so ultimately nothing positive is going to come out from it's intervention in your life.... so yeah a demon might give you want you want FOR NOW BUT can you then deal with the aftermath of demonic forces being in your life. These things don't just go away because you ask them
As far as I know, she hasn't prayed to any demons and I know I haven't, but I'll be honest and say I prayed to anyone who would listen lol......
I didn't pray to any single ? , she herself prayed to Jesus and does the whole church thing, but her luck hasn't been good lately. If she did pray to a demon though, what's the worst that could happen? If her child ended up healthy and happy, then maybe it would be worth it.
The child may not get better the child may die, perhaps ? wants the mother to learn from that experience... I don't know. As for you I suggest that you don't ever just pray to anything that will answer you... what's the worst than can happen to you for praying to demons??? possession or torment for you and the people you love until you either die or wish you would die.
What can a parent really learn from the loss of a child though, some people never get over the death of a child. Not sure what there is to learn from that, she's losing her faith actually dealing with all this ? .
As far as praying to anyone who will listen, help from any source can't be that bad, have you known people who have been "possessed" by demons? I've heard of that kind of thing but never took it seriously, seems like something that only happens in the movies. I rarely pray but each time I have prayed since turning non-religious, I've never been possessed by anything and my family for the most part is doing fine. Some people are Christian, religious and face torment all the time. Seems you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
this is what I believe
what can you learn from losing your child??? for one thing you can learn that nothing you expect in life nothing that you hope for is promised and that you should be glad for what you have now because it can vanish tomorrow. You can learn how to deal with pain, death and suffering. People often lose their faith when they suffer and then come back to it even stronger, some never lose faith and the pain only makes their faith stronger.
it all depends on the individual and how ? is trying to guide their lives.
I've seen people possessed and it's not good, your conception of things is not how it really works you don't just do something and automatically something happens, remember all these spiritual forces have minds of their own so it's not like you can always predict what they will do. Aren't you Haitian??? doesn't your family know anything about voodoo and possession?? For all spirits you have to call to them and they may not come to you or answer you for there own reasons. ? however will always answer you but if you have no relationship with him you won't hear or understand the answers.
I don't think demons would feel the need to communicate with non-religious people because what would be the point those people already don't have much connection to ? anyway and are doomed anyway -
kingblaze84 wrote: »En-Fuego22 wrote: »Black people has been praying since slavery and what do we have to show for it?
Hmmm great point......not even just slavery, dealing with oppressors on a worldwide level. I remember praying on that in my Christian days, asking and hoping "? " would let me know why it allowed all that ? to happen. Never got an answer lol
study some books and philosophies on theodicy and you will get your answer -
kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »good prayer serves as a way to align yourself with the will of ? not to try and get what your will desires.
you cannot just pray like your are begging a genie for favors and expect to always get what you want.
the reason I believe in the power of prayer is because it works I have seen it work and experienced it working for me
If you really want to hear from ? you have to have a relationship with him
I myself have felt that my prayers have been answered at times, whether it was luck or not, my wishes have come true many times.
As far as building a relationship with ? , that's the weird part, with which ? ? It's why when I do pray, which is rare, I pray to the universe or the heavens. I can't think of any specific ? I should be praying to because while I may sense a higher power, I can't put a face to it. I'm still not 100% convinced the higher powers that may be out there are truly gods, but I'm still open to gods or a ? existing.
Any body can have there prayers answered because what they want maybe what ? is willing to allow.
WHICH ? ??? that you have to learn for yourself and find your faith yourself..... if you ask me the true ? is the ? of Abraham. higher powers??? ? is the highest power, there may be lower powers like demons so maybe they can grant your wishes but that doesn't mean they are gods or that your prayer was answered by ?
Interesting, so you believe other higher powers out there aside from your ? can possibly answer prayers.
Maybe your ? is the "highest" power (doubtful of course), but if other forces out there can answer prayers, I'm sure many would welcome that. My friend's daughter is feeling worse from the asthma today and is now in the hospital smh, I'm sure she would welcome help from any source now.
No. there cannot be a hierarchy of gods, there can only be one true ? because a ? has to be supremely powerful in his capacity. In other words a ? has to be sovereign and all powerful if there are multiple gods then that means neither are sovereign and all powerful.
I believe in other spiritual forces but they are GODS.... THEY DO have power but they are not all powerful so maybe a demon may answer a prayer but keep in mind it's a demon so ultimately nothing positive is going to come out from it's intervention in your life.... so yeah a demon might give you want you want FOR NOW BUT can you then deal with the aftermath of demonic forces being in your life. These things don't just go away because you ask them
As far as I know, she hasn't prayed to any demons and I know I haven't, but I'll be honest and say I prayed to anyone who would listen lol......
I didn't pray to any single ? , she herself prayed to Jesus and does the whole church thing, but her luck hasn't been good lately. If she did pray to a demon though, what's the worst that could happen? If her child ended up healthy and happy, then maybe it would be worth it.
The child may not get better the child may die, perhaps ? wants the mother to learn from that experience... I don't know. As for you I suggest that you don't ever just pray to anything that will answer you... what's the worst than can happen to you for praying to demons??? possession or torment for you and the people you love until you either die or wish you would die.
What can a parent really learn from the loss of a child though, some people never get over the death of a child. Not sure what there is to learn from that, she's losing her faith actually dealing with all this ? .
As far as praying to anyone who will listen, help from any source can't be that bad, have you known people who have been "possessed" by demons? I've heard of that kind of thing but never took it seriously, seems like something that only happens in the movies. I rarely pray but each time I have prayed since turning non-religious, I've never been possessed by anything and my family for the most part is doing fine. Some people are Christian, religious and face torment all the time. Seems you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
this is what I believe
what can you learn from losing your child??? for one thing you can learn that nothing you expect in life nothing that you hope for is promised and that you should be glad for what you have now because it can vanish tomorrow. You can learn how to deal with pain, death and suffering. People often lose their faith when they suffer and then come back to it even stronger, some never lose faith and the pain only makes their faith stronger.
it all depends on the individual and how ? is trying to guide their lives.
I've seen people possessed and it's not good, your conception of things is not how it really works you don't just do something and automatically something happens, remember all these spiritual forces have minds of their own so it's not like you can always predict what they will do. Aren't you Haitian??? doesn't your family know anything about voodoo and possession?? For all spirits you have to call to them and they may not come to you or answer you for there own reasons. ? however will always answer you but if you have no relationship with him you won't hear or understand the answers.
I don't think demons would feel the need to communicate with non-religious people because what would be the point those people already don't have much connection to ? anyway and are doomed anyway
Well it is true that nothing is promised, and one of the few good things about the loss of someone close is that it does make you appreciate what you have. Time will tell how her faith is affected but I more or less have the Buddhist approach when it comes to loss. Buddhist philosophy teaches attachment causes suffering and it's actually a part of the reason I don't want kids (among other reasons).
I'm half Haitian, my father is Panamanian with Jamaican heritage. But on the Haitian side of my family, people are either non-religious or Christian, but they have known people who were into voodoo, none were part of my family though (as far as I know). So I don't have much first hand knowledge of demon possession because it still seems like something from a movie or horror story. I'm skeptical about demon possession, some people might have medical problems that seems like possession but really isn't. But than again, I do believe spirits are a possibility, so anything is possible.
If being non-religious means not dealing with evil demons, good! And you're just assuming non-religious people are doomed, for all you know you will be the one whose damned. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »En-Fuego22 wrote: »Black people has been praying since slavery and what do we have to show for it?
Hmmm great point......not even just slavery, dealing with oppressors on a worldwide level. I remember praying on that in my Christian days, asking and hoping "? " would let me know why it allowed all that ? to happen. Never got an answer lol
study some books and philosophies on theodicy and you will get your answer
I read a few of those, the answers are not exactly satisfying. Doesn't give the full explanation, at least one that makes sense to me. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »BiblicalAtheist wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »BiblicalAtheist wrote: »? only answers prayers asking for understanding.
When you say ? answers prayers for understanding, do you mean for an understanding of our life in general, or an understanding of the situation we may be praying on?
Any understanding. However the answer may not come instantaneously and you have to be open to where it might come from.
Aight that's cool, understanding our lives on a deeper level is always helpful but my friend already understands why her daughter is so sick, asthma lol.....there's not much else for her to understand, her daughter now needs an even more expensive machine to help her breath now. It's gonna be a rough summer for her, her lungs don't look good in X-Rays.....
As far as me, knowledge (true knowledge) from any source is definitely welcome, don't care where it comes from, as long as it benefits me or those around me in some way. Meditating has worked great for me in that regard. Prayer though is the big question mark, not sure if I've ever got understanding from that.kingblaze84 wrote: »BiblicalAtheist wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »BiblicalAtheist wrote: »? only answers prayers asking for understanding.
When you say ? answers prayers for understanding, do you mean for an understanding of our life in general, or an understanding of the situation we may be praying on?
Any understanding. However the answer may not come instantaneously and you have to be open to where it might come from.
Aight that's cool, understanding our lives on a deeper level is always helpful but my friend already understands why her daughter is so sick, asthma lol.....there's not much else for her to understand, her daughter now needs an even more expensive machine to help her breath now. It's gonna be a rough summer for her, her lungs don't look good in X-Rays.....
As far as me, knowledge (true knowledge) from any source is definitely welcome, don't care where it comes from, as long as it benefits me or those around me in some way. Meditating has worked great for me in that regard. Prayer though is the big question mark, not sure if I've ever got understanding from that.
It's hard and ignorant to say what anyone is suppose to learn from anything. The understanding to her plight may not come for years, who knows, it's hard to say when/why/how/all that. It's all personal. But from my experience, that is the only prayers ? answers. Where that understanding takes someone/which doors it opens etc appears to be infinite in possibilities though. And all things can be tied back to desiring understanding imo or not, sometimes we stay ignorant, willfully or not. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »DoUwant2go2Heaven wrote: »I go by what the Bible says and this is what the Bible says about the prayers of those who don't believe in the true and living ? because they refuse to believe His word:
If anyone turns a deaf ear to my instruction, even their prayers are detestable. Proverbs 28:9
"We know that ? does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will." John 9:31
Both the Old and the New testament confirms that ? does not hear the prayers of those who do not believe in Him. Now you can try to finagle and theologize the scriptures all you want, but I go with what's in black and white. Amen.
Now does ? show grace and give mercy to the unrighteous? Of course He does. The sun shines on the just and the unjust. But don't believe for one second that your prayers are being answered by ? . You aren't even calling on His name! You are going against the grain of everything outlined in the scriptures.
You have to call upon the Father asking all things in Jesus name! That is how you pray! But first things first, you must acknowledge that He exists! For without faith it is impossible to please ? ! It's only when you come to Him by faith will He then reward you as you diligently seek Him. Amen.
Why would I call Jesus' name as I pray, my friend has gone to church and prayed for her daughter for a long time now, and meanwhile, her daughter is now in even worse condition as of today.
So if her praying to Jesus isn't bringing much luck, then praying to the universe in general can't be any worse. Calling on "the father" has ironically gotten her daughter in worse and worse condition lol, as a non-religious person, the irony has been breathtaking to me.
? does what ? does. Whatever pleases Him that is what He is going to do. Amen.
If He wills for the daughter to be divinely healed, He will do it.
if He wills for the daughter to be supremely healed (meaning taking her in death), He will do that.
If He wills for the daughter to be healed by natural means over the course of time, He will do that.
Whatever the outcome of that particular situation is, ? will get the glory because He is working out a plan that will benefit the good of everyone involved, including us.
@zombie has been breaking it down. So you can continue your discussion with him. Amen. -
To me, things are either going to happen or their not.
Or sometimes, even though someone may be in the "favor" of their lord, the answer can simply be NO. -
BiblicalAtheist wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »BiblicalAtheist wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »BiblicalAtheist wrote: »? only answers prayers asking for understanding.
When you say ? answers prayers for understanding, do you mean for an understanding of our life in general, or an understanding of the situation we may be praying on?
Any understanding. However the answer may not come instantaneously and you have to be open to where it might come from.
Aight that's cool, understanding our lives on a deeper level is always helpful but my friend already understands why her daughter is so sick, asthma lol.....there's not much else for her to understand, her daughter now needs an even more expensive machine to help her breath now. It's gonna be a rough summer for her, her lungs don't look good in X-Rays.....
As far as me, knowledge (true knowledge) from any source is definitely welcome, don't care where it comes from, as long as it benefits me or those around me in some way. Meditating has worked great for me in that regard. Prayer though is the big question mark, not sure if I've ever got understanding from that.kingblaze84 wrote: »BiblicalAtheist wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »BiblicalAtheist wrote: »? only answers prayers asking for understanding.
When you say ? answers prayers for understanding, do you mean for an understanding of our life in general, or an understanding of the situation we may be praying on?
Any understanding. However the answer may not come instantaneously and you have to be open to where it might come from.
Aight that's cool, understanding our lives on a deeper level is always helpful but my friend already understands why her daughter is so sick, asthma lol.....there's not much else for her to understand, her daughter now needs an even more expensive machine to help her breath now. It's gonna be a rough summer for her, her lungs don't look good in X-Rays.....
As far as me, knowledge (true knowledge) from any source is definitely welcome, don't care where it comes from, as long as it benefits me or those around me in some way. Meditating has worked great for me in that regard. Prayer though is the big question mark, not sure if I've ever got understanding from that.
It's hard and ignorant to say what anyone is suppose to learn from anything. The understanding to her plight may not come for years, who knows, it's hard to say when/why/how/all that. It's all personal. But from my experience, that is the only prayers ? answers. Where that understanding takes someone/which doors it opens etc appears to be infinite in possibilities though. And all things can be tied back to desiring understanding imo or not, sometimes we stay ignorant, willfully or not.
Interesting way of looking at it. -
DoUwant2go2Heaven wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »DoUwant2go2Heaven wrote: »I go by what the Bible says and this is what the Bible says about the prayers of those who don't believe in the true and living ? because they refuse to believe His word:
If anyone turns a deaf ear to my instruction, even their prayers are detestable. Proverbs 28:9
"We know that ? does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will." John 9:31
Both the Old and the New testament confirms that ? does not hear the prayers of those who do not believe in Him. Now you can try to finagle and theologize the scriptures all you want, but I go with what's in black and white. Amen.
Now does ? show grace and give mercy to the unrighteous? Of course He does. The sun shines on the just and the unjust. But don't believe for one second that your prayers are being answered by ? . You aren't even calling on His name! You are going against the grain of everything outlined in the scriptures.
You have to call upon the Father asking all things in Jesus name! That is how you pray! But first things first, you must acknowledge that He exists! For without faith it is impossible to please ? ! It's only when you come to Him by faith will He then reward you as you diligently seek Him. Amen.
Why would I call Jesus' name as I pray, my friend has gone to church and prayed for her daughter for a long time now, and meanwhile, her daughter is now in even worse condition as of today.
So if her praying to Jesus isn't bringing much luck, then praying to the universe in general can't be any worse. Calling on "the father" has ironically gotten her daughter in worse and worse condition lol, as a non-religious person, the irony has been breathtaking to me.
? does what ? does. Whatever pleases Him that is what He is going to do. Amen.
If He wills for the daughter to be divinely healed, He will do it.
if He wills for the daughter to be supremely healed (meaning taking her in death), He will do that.
If He wills for the daughter to be healed by natural means over the course of time, He will do that.
Whatever the outcome of that particular situation is, ? will get the glory because He is working out a plan that will benefit the good of everyone involved, including us.
@zombie has been breaking it down. So you can continue your discussion with him. Amen.
So when really bad things happen to people, like really bad things, you believe your ? always wills those things to purposely happen? Doesn't that mean your ? is, um, evil? What would be the purpose of praying to a ? such as yours, it's going to will and purposely allow ? up ? anyway. -
To me, things are either going to happen or their not.
Or sometimes, even though someone may be in the "favor" of their lord, the answer can simply be NO.
Yeah some things are gonna happen one way or the other. Prayer isn't gonna make a kid born with one arm grow another one.
But it might make someone feel mentally better about their situation. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »DoUwant2go2Heaven wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »DoUwant2go2Heaven wrote: »I go by what the Bible says and this is what the Bible says about the prayers of those who don't believe in the true and living ? because they refuse to believe His word:
If anyone turns a deaf ear to my instruction, even their prayers are detestable. Proverbs 28:9
"We know that ? does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will." John 9:31
Both the Old and the New testament confirms that ? does not hear the prayers of those who do not believe in Him. Now you can try to finagle and theologize the scriptures all you want, but I go with what's in black and white. Amen.
Now does ? show grace and give mercy to the unrighteous? Of course He does. The sun shines on the just and the unjust. But don't believe for one second that your prayers are being answered by ? . You aren't even calling on His name! You are going against the grain of everything outlined in the scriptures.
You have to call upon the Father asking all things in Jesus name! That is how you pray! But first things first, you must acknowledge that He exists! For without faith it is impossible to please ? ! It's only when you come to Him by faith will He then reward you as you diligently seek Him. Amen.
Why would I call Jesus' name as I pray, my friend has gone to church and prayed for her daughter for a long time now, and meanwhile, her daughter is now in even worse condition as of today.
So if her praying to Jesus isn't bringing much luck, then praying to the universe in general can't be any worse. Calling on "the father" has ironically gotten her daughter in worse and worse condition lol, as a non-religious person, the irony has been breathtaking to me.
? does what ? does. Whatever pleases Him that is what He is going to do. Amen.
If He wills for the daughter to be divinely healed, He will do it.
if He wills for the daughter to be supremely healed (meaning taking her in death), He will do that.
If He wills for the daughter to be healed by natural means over the course of time, He will do that.
Whatever the outcome of that particular situation is, ? will get the glory because He is working out a plan that will benefit the good of everyone involved, including us.
@zombie has been breaking it down. So you can continue your discussion with him. Amen.
So when really bad things happen to people, like really bad things, you believe your ? always wills those things to purposely happen? Doesn't that mean your ? is, um, evil? What would be the purpose of praying to a ? such as yours, it's going to will and purposely allow ? up ? anyway.
What do you mean by bad things??? ? does not will human on human violations of his word. Also arbitrarily stopping the will of people to do whatever they wish is evil so ? won't stop human on human violence so easily or stop us from doing anything we want.
FROM my reading and understanding ? only really steps into the universe/human affairs in a major way to stop things when his religion/people are threatened with being removed from the earth. Which is why he protected israel so much during the O.T and allowed them to do certain things and why later on despite all the odds Christianity survived roman persecution. Why??? because his religion, faith in his word is the only way to redeem your soul and it's the only way you can truly be totally spiritually protected. Because remember your life on earth is temporary, it's a small thing compared to the glory of an eternal existence that we my have. -
Yeah ? , just like Santa Claus.
-
kingblaze84 wrote: »DoUwant2go2Heaven wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »DoUwant2go2Heaven wrote: »I go by what the Bible says and this is what the Bible says about the prayers of those who don't believe in the true and living ? because they refuse to believe His word:
If anyone turns a deaf ear to my instruction, even their prayers are detestable. Proverbs 28:9
"We know that ? does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will." John 9:31
Both the Old and the New testament confirms that ? does not hear the prayers of those who do not believe in Him. Now you can try to finagle and theologize the scriptures all you want, but I go with what's in black and white. Amen.
Now does ? show grace and give mercy to the unrighteous? Of course He does. The sun shines on the just and the unjust. But don't believe for one second that your prayers are being answered by ? . You aren't even calling on His name! You are going against the grain of everything outlined in the scriptures.
You have to call upon the Father asking all things in Jesus name! That is how you pray! But first things first, you must acknowledge that He exists! For without faith it is impossible to please ? ! It's only when you come to Him by faith will He then reward you as you diligently seek Him. Amen.
Why would I call Jesus' name as I pray, my friend has gone to church and prayed for her daughter for a long time now, and meanwhile, her daughter is now in even worse condition as of today.
So if her praying to Jesus isn't bringing much luck, then praying to the universe in general can't be any worse. Calling on "the father" has ironically gotten her daughter in worse and worse condition lol, as a non-religious person, the irony has been breathtaking to me.
? does what ? does. Whatever pleases Him that is what He is going to do. Amen.
If He wills for the daughter to be divinely healed, He will do it.
if He wills for the daughter to be supremely healed (meaning taking her in death), He will do that.
If He wills for the daughter to be healed by natural means over the course of time, He will do that.
Whatever the outcome of that particular situation is, ? will get the glory because He is working out a plan that will benefit the good of everyone involved, including us.
@zombie has been breaking it down. So you can continue your discussion with him. Amen.
So when really bad things happen to people, like really bad things, you believe your ? always wills those things to purposely happen? Doesn't that mean your ? is, um, evil? What would be the purpose of praying to a ? such as yours, it's going to will and purposely allow ? up ? anyway.
What do you mean by bad things??? ? does not will human on human violations of his word. Also arbitrarily stopping the will of people to do whatever they wish is evil so ? won't stop human on human violence so easily or stop us from doing anything we want.
FROM my reading and understanding ? only really steps into the universe/human affairs in a major way to stop things when his religion/people are threatened with being removed from the earth. Which is why he protected israel so much during the O.T and allowed them to do certain things and why later on despite all the odds Christianity survived roman persecution. Why??? because his religion, faith in his word is the only way to redeem your soul and it's the only way you can truly be totally spiritually protected. Because remember your life on earth is temporary, it's a small thing compared to the glory of an eternal existence that we my have.
By bad things, I mean anything naturally bad in general, DOU said ? would get the glory no matter what happens to the little girl. So that means if her condition gets way worse and if she suffers even more then she is now, ? basically is making that happen. So it seems like the ? DOU worships or believes in is ? up because some kids have conditions that are extremely painful and according to DOU ? wants all that to happen lol.....sounds evil to me but whatever......
And you said ? steps into human affairs when his religion or people are threatened with being removed from the earth? Many Jews during the Holocaust prayed like crazy for protection but they didn't see any divine intervention. Christianity did survive Roman persecution but there are religions just as old and older then that. And once again you're assuming the ONLY way you can be spiritually protected is by Christianity, that sounds very arrogant. -
the dukester wrote: »Yeah ? , just like Santa Claus.
LOL, according to Creflo Dollar and that white preacher in TX, if people pray enough and are devout enough, "? " can act like Santa Claus. Sounds realistic right?
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kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »DoUwant2go2Heaven wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »DoUwant2go2Heaven wrote: »I go by what the Bible says and this is what the Bible says about the prayers of those who don't believe in the true and living ? because they refuse to believe His word:
If anyone turns a deaf ear to my instruction, even their prayers are detestable. Proverbs 28:9
"We know that ? does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will." John 9:31
Both the Old and the New testament confirms that ? does not hear the prayers of those who do not believe in Him. Now you can try to finagle and theologize the scriptures all you want, but I go with what's in black and white. Amen.
Now does ? show grace and give mercy to the unrighteous? Of course He does. The sun shines on the just and the unjust. But don't believe for one second that your prayers are being answered by ? . You aren't even calling on His name! You are going against the grain of everything outlined in the scriptures.
You have to call upon the Father asking all things in Jesus name! That is how you pray! But first things first, you must acknowledge that He exists! For without faith it is impossible to please ? ! It's only when you come to Him by faith will He then reward you as you diligently seek Him. Amen.
Why would I call Jesus' name as I pray, my friend has gone to church and prayed for her daughter for a long time now, and meanwhile, her daughter is now in even worse condition as of today.
So if her praying to Jesus isn't bringing much luck, then praying to the universe in general can't be any worse. Calling on "the father" has ironically gotten her daughter in worse and worse condition lol, as a non-religious person, the irony has been breathtaking to me.
? does what ? does. Whatever pleases Him that is what He is going to do. Amen.
If He wills for the daughter to be divinely healed, He will do it.
if He wills for the daughter to be supremely healed (meaning taking her in death), He will do that.
If He wills for the daughter to be healed by natural means over the course of time, He will do that.
Whatever the outcome of that particular situation is, ? will get the glory because He is working out a plan that will benefit the good of everyone involved, including us.
@zombie has been breaking it down. So you can continue your discussion with him. Amen.
So when really bad things happen to people, like really bad things, you believe your ? always wills those things to purposely happen? Doesn't that mean your ? is, um, evil? What would be the purpose of praying to a ? such as yours, it's going to will and purposely allow ? up ? anyway.
What do you mean by bad things??? ? does not will human on human violations of his word. Also arbitrarily stopping the will of people to do whatever they wish is evil so ? won't stop human on human violence so easily or stop us from doing anything we want.
FROM my reading and understanding ? only really steps into the universe/human affairs in a major way to stop things when his religion/people are threatened with being removed from the earth. Which is why he protected israel so much during the O.T and allowed them to do certain things and why later on despite all the odds Christianity survived roman persecution. Why??? because his religion, faith in his word is the only way to redeem your soul and it's the only way you can truly be totally spiritually protected. Because remember your life on earth is temporary, it's a small thing compared to the glory of an eternal existence that we my have.
By bad things, I mean anything naturally bad in general, DOU said ? would get the glory no matter what happens to the little girl. So that means if her condition gets way worse and if she suffers even more then she is now, ? basically is making that happen. So it seems like the ? DOU worships or believes in is ? up because some kids have conditions that are extremely painful and according to DOU ? wants all that to happen lol.....sounds evil to me but whatever......
And you said ? steps into human affairs when his religion or people are threatened with being removed from the earth? Many Jews during the Holocaust prayed like crazy for protection but they didn't see any divine intervention. Christianity did survive Roman persecution but there are religions just as old and older then that. And once again you're assuming the ONLY way you can be spiritually protected is by Christianity, that sounds very arrogant.
I don't quite get what you mean by "naturally bad" ??? anyway i doubt dou meant what you think he did, when people say ? gets the glory they usually mean that no matter what happens at the end of the day ? can turn what we feel is a bad/painful situation into something else. That saying " to ? be the glory" when used in referencing painful situations does not mean ? is causing the initial negative situation to happen just that he can ultimately turn any situation into an uplifting situation.
For example while you are correct, MANY jews did die during the holocaust but the jews are still around and more healthy and powerful than ever before, so while may individual jews may leave the earth the religion lives on and has more influence and power than it did before. All the other religions and peoples that have come up against the religion of abraham have pretty much been reduced to either nothingness or are EXTREMELY uninfluential. You don't see too many worshipers of baal or any of the philistine gods around to today. Meanwhile the ? of abraham is everywhere in some form or another and influences everyone in some way or another and i am speaking carnally not just spiritually
YES I AM ARROGANT WHEN it comes to boasting about the power of my ? which is perfectly fine because 1 corinthians 1:31 says " Therefore, as it is written: "Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord."
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kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »DoUwant2go2Heaven wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »DoUwant2go2Heaven wrote: »I go by what the Bible says and this is what the Bible says about the prayers of those who don't believe in the true and living ? because they refuse to believe His word:
If anyone turns a deaf ear to my instruction, even their prayers are detestable. Proverbs 28:9
"We know that ? does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will." John 9:31
Both the Old and the New testament confirms that ? does not hear the prayers of those who do not believe in Him. Now you can try to finagle and theologize the scriptures all you want, but I go with what's in black and white. Amen.
Now does ? show grace and give mercy to the unrighteous? Of course He does. The sun shines on the just and the unjust. But don't believe for one second that your prayers are being answered by ? . You aren't even calling on His name! You are going against the grain of everything outlined in the scriptures.
You have to call upon the Father asking all things in Jesus name! That is how you pray! But first things first, you must acknowledge that He exists! For without faith it is impossible to please ? ! It's only when you come to Him by faith will He then reward you as you diligently seek Him. Amen.
Why would I call Jesus' name as I pray, my friend has gone to church and prayed for her daughter for a long time now, and meanwhile, her daughter is now in even worse condition as of today.
So if her praying to Jesus isn't bringing much luck, then praying to the universe in general can't be any worse. Calling on "the father" has ironically gotten her daughter in worse and worse condition lol, as a non-religious person, the irony has been breathtaking to me.
? does what ? does. Whatever pleases Him that is what He is going to do. Amen.
If He wills for the daughter to be divinely healed, He will do it.
if He wills for the daughter to be supremely healed (meaning taking her in death), He will do that.
If He wills for the daughter to be healed by natural means over the course of time, He will do that.
Whatever the outcome of that particular situation is, ? will get the glory because He is working out a plan that will benefit the good of everyone involved, including us.
@zombie has been breaking it down. So you can continue your discussion with him. Amen.
So when really bad things happen to people, like really bad things, you believe your ? always wills those things to purposely happen? Doesn't that mean your ? is, um, evil? What would be the purpose of praying to a ? such as yours, it's going to will and purposely allow ? up ? anyway.
What do you mean by bad things??? ? does not will human on human violations of his word. Also arbitrarily stopping the will of people to do whatever they wish is evil so ? won't stop human on human violence so easily or stop us from doing anything we want.
FROM my reading and understanding ? only really steps into the universe/human affairs in a major way to stop things when his religion/people are threatened with being removed from the earth. Which is why he protected israel so much during the O.T and allowed them to do certain things and why later on despite all the odds Christianity survived roman persecution. Why??? because his religion, faith in his word is the only way to redeem your soul and it's the only way you can truly be totally spiritually protected. Because remember your life on earth is temporary, it's a small thing compared to the glory of an eternal existence that we my have.
By bad things, I mean anything naturally bad in general, DOU said ? would get the glory no matter what happens to the little girl. So that means if her condition gets way worse and if she suffers even more then she is now, ? basically is making that happen. So it seems like the ? DOU worships or believes in is ? up because some kids have conditions that are extremely painful and according to DOU ? wants all that to happen lol.....sounds evil to me but whatever......
And you said ? steps into human affairs when his religion or people are threatened with being removed from the earth? Many Jews during the Holocaust prayed like crazy for protection but they didn't see any divine intervention. Christianity did survive Roman persecution but there are religions just as old and older then that. And once again you're assuming the ONLY way you can be spiritually protected is by Christianity, that sounds very arrogant.
I don't quite get what you mean by "naturally bad" ??? anyway i doubt dou meant what you think he did, when people say ? gets the glory they usually mean that no matter what happens at the end of the day ? can turn what we feel is a bad/painful situation into something else. That saying " to ? be the glory" when used in referencing painful situations does not mean ? is causing the initial negative situation to happen just that he can ultimately turn any situation into an uplifting situation.
For example while you are correct, MANY jews did die during the holocaust but the jews are still around and more healthy and powerful than ever before, so while may individual jews may leave the earth the religion lives on and has more influence and power than it did before. All the other religions and peoples that have come up against the religion of abraham have pretty much been reduced to either nothingness or are EXTREMELY uninfluential. You don't see too many worshipers of baal or any of the philistine gods around to today. Meanwhile the ? of abraham is everywhere in some form or another and influences everyone in some way or another and i am speaking carnally not just spiritually
YES I AM ARROGANT WHEN it comes to boasting about the power of my ? which is perfectly fine because 1 corinthians 1:31 says " Therefore, as it is written: "Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord."
So if "? gets the glory" when good things happen, who gets the glory when naturally bad things happen to people, like disease, medical conditions, parasites, etc? Who should my homegirl blame if her daughter's asthma gets worse? If she does get better, technically, science and her doctors should get most, if not all the glory.
And while Jews as a whole did survive the Holocaust, their numbers were drastically reduced and ironically Jews are some of the most secular and atheistic people on Earth. Israel's govt is hardline religious but about half of Israelis consider themselves secular. It's even more percentage wise in America, where Jews are at their biggest numbers outside Israel.
By the way, the "? " of Abraham is not influential at all, I don't see it around Earth. The man made books that MENTION the ? of Abraham are influential to some degree, true, but this ? of Abraham is not really found anywhere. A "? " can't be influential if it's not even active and there's zero proof it was ever active minus a few stories, and by the way where is the "power" of this ? you're talking about? Isn't it kind of silly to boast about the power of an absentee ? that's nowhere to be seen or heard from?
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The ? of Abraham is basically a rip off of other religions anyway
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kingblaze84 wrote: »The ? of Abraham is basically a rip off of other religions anyway
No he is not and that theory has been debunked a long time ago -
@kingblaze84
To ? be the Glory does not equal blame or responsibility I JUST WENT OVER THIS WITH YOU, the term "naturally bad" makes no sense to me because good or bad are subjective terms. Is death bad??? is suffering bad??? my answer is it DEPENDS ON the context of the situation. If you are asking me who is responsible for "natural death" meaning DEATH caused by disease or earthquakes and things like that then the answer is simple... HUMANITY IS RESPONSIBLE.
DEATH CAME INTO creation as a result of Sin... if there were no sin in the world there would be no death this was explained in the allegorical story of adam and eve. The death sin connection is one of the messages of that story. I am not saying that the child will die because she or the mother are sinful i am saying that death is a part of our shared reality because of human sin and how death and why death is dished out is mostly random. Your homegirl has no one to blame. She can pray and ask ? to heal the child and maybe he will if it's in his will to do so. Therefore if we submit ourselves to him in faith, to a certain extent ? will bend if not break the rules of the reality mankind has created for ourselves BUT we must submit ourselves to him in faith. HOWEVER sometimes he won't physically heal you because he has other plans.
As for the jews, even back in the O.T there were jews that fell off the path it's a recurring event in the bible so the fact that today there are many atheist jews or people born jewish and then become atheist is not really a shocking event. The ? of abraham is extremely influential why do you think america can never have an openly atheist president?? people won't vote for one why?? because the belief in the ? of abraham is too strong and that belief dictates that atheist are fools and no one is going to elect anyone they think is a fool. The books influence are one of his main methods of influence.
? seems like an absentee to YOU because YOU cannot feel him and don't know HIM BUT to those of us who can feel his presence in our lives we know he is very much real. LIKE I ALWAYS TELL YOU one of your main problems is that you want ? to do what you want him to do. YOU want ? to prove himself to YOU in the way YOU want him to but SORRY but it does not work that way. ? is not going to bow to You.
You want to feel ? then you have to submit You have to BOW and YOU have to surrender YOUR heart, mind, body and soul. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »The ? of Abraham is basically a rip off of other religions anyway
No he is not and that theory has been debunked a long time ago
Are you sure about that? Have you ever heard of Zoroastrianism? It came before Judaism and came from the ancient Persians. Judaism as we know it now is directly influenced from Zoroastrinism, don't act like Judaism is the oldest religion in the world. Judaism acknowledges the presence of other gods and as you already know, the ? of of Abraham acts no different then the other "gods" out there
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism
http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Religions/iranian/Zarathushtrian/z_influence_abrahamic.htm
Zoroastrianism,[n 1] or more natively Mazdayasna,[1] is one of the world's oldest religions, "combining a cosmogonic dualism and eschatological monotheism in a manner unique... among the major religions of the world."[2] Ascribed to the teachings of the Iranian Prophet Zoroaster (or Zarathustra),[3] he exalted their deity of wisdom, Ahura Mazda, (Wise Lord) as its Supreme Being.[4] Leading characteristics, such as messianism, heaven and hell, and free will are said to have influenced other religious systems, including Second Temple Judaism, Gnosticism, Christianity, and Islam.[5
Second Temple Judaism is Judaism between the construction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem, c. 515 BCE, and its destruction by the Romans in 70 CE. The development of the Hebrew Bible canon, the synagogue, Jewish apocalyptic expectations for the future, and Christianity, can all be traced to Second Temple times. -
@kingblaze84
To ? be the Glory does not equal blame or responsibility I JUST WENT OVER THIS WITH YOU, the term "naturally bad" makes no sense to me because good or bad are subjective terms. Is death bad??? is suffering bad??? my answer is it DEPENDS ON the context of the situation. If you are asking me who is responsible for "natural death" meaning DEATH caused by disease or earthquakes and things like that then the answer is simple... HUMANITY IS RESPONSIBLE.
DEATH CAME INTO creation as a result of Sin... if there were no sin in the world there would be no death this was explained in the allegorical story of adam and eve. The death sin connection is one of the messages of that story. I am not saying that the child will die because she or the mother are sinful i am saying that death is a part of our shared reality because of human sin and how death and why death is dished out is mostly random. Your homegirl has no one to blame. She can pray and ask ? to heal the child and maybe he will if it's in his will to do so. Therefore if we submit ourselves to him in faith, to a certain extent ? will bend if not break the rules of the reality mankind has created for ourselves BUT we must submit ourselves to him in faith. HOWEVER sometimes he won't physically heal you because he has other plans.
As for the jews, even back in the O.T there were jews that fell off the path it's a recurring event in the bible so the fact that today there are many atheist jews or people born jewish and then become atheist is not really a shocking event. The ? of abraham is extremely influential why do you think america can never have an openly atheist president?? people won't vote for one why?? because the belief in the ? of abraham is too strong and that belief dictates that atheist are fools and no one is going to elect anyone they think is a fool. The books influence are one of his main methods of influence.
? seems like an absentee to YOU because YOU cannot feel him and don't know HIM BUT to those of us who can feel his presence in our lives we know he is very much real. LIKE I ALWAYS TELL YOU one of your main problems is that you want ? to do what you want him to do. YOU want ? to prove himself to YOU in the way YOU want him to but SORRY but it does not work that way. ? is not going to bow to You.
You want to feel ? then you have to submit You have to BOW and YOU have to surrender YOUR heart, mind, body and soul.
So if so many Jews these days and even back then doubted the Abrahamic ? was real, why should anyone else take it seriously? And the ? of Abraham is not really doing anything, it is people who BELIEVE the Abrahamic ? is real who have some influence in the world (a ton of it bad).
As far as America never having an atheist president, what's your point, there have been several non-religious presidents. Thomas Jefferson talked a lot of ? about Christianity and Judaism, Benjamin Franklin and some other Founding Fathers weren't big fans of Torah and Christian doctrine either. THEIR influence is a big part of the reason there is a separation between church and state, which is one of the greatest things about the Constitution. Nations that have religion dictating their laws often have repressive societies filled with angry people.
And I already did the whole "submitting" to Jesus thing, I actually felt unhappy at those later times being Christian because I felt like I was worshipping a giant, lazy ? who isn't doing anything. As I got more involved with history and science, I actually became more disgusted being Christian and knew I couldn't respect such a lazy being. I never became atheist though, though I came close a few times.
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kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »The ? of Abraham is basically a rip off of other religions anyway
No he is not and that theory has been debunked a long time ago
Are you sure about that? Have you ever heard of Zoroastrianism? It came before Judaism and came from the ancient Persians. Judaism as we know it now is directly influenced from Zoroastrinism, don't act like Judaism is the oldest religion in the world. Judaism acknowledges the presence of other gods and as you already know, the ? of of Abraham acts no different then the other "gods" out there
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism
http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Religions/iranian/Zarathushtrian/z_influence_abrahamic.htm
Zoroastrianism,[n 1] or more natively Mazdayasna,[1] is one of the world's oldest religions, "combining a cosmogonic dualism and eschatological monotheism in a manner unique... among the major religions of the world."[2] Ascribed to the teachings of the Iranian Prophet Zoroaster (or Zarathustra),[3] he exalted their deity of wisdom, Ahura Mazda, (Wise Lord) as its Supreme Being.[4] Leading characteristics, such as messianism, heaven and hell, and free will are said to have influenced other religious systems, including Second Temple Judaism, Gnosticism, Christianity, and Islam.[5
Second Temple Judaism is Judaism between the construction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem, c. 515 BCE, and its destruction by the Romans in 70 CE. The development of the Hebrew Bible canon, the synagogue, Jewish apocalyptic expectations for the future, and Christianity, can all be traced to Second Temple times.
I KNOW ABOUT ZOROASTRIANISM AND IT'S A TOTALLY DIFFERENT BELIEF and judaism does not acknowledge the existence of other gods as being real it acknowledges them as being false -
I think it's disingenuous to say that Judiasm is a total rip and has no influences from other religions. Humans trade ideas when there is trade and commerce.
