Why Does Japan Get it Wrong with the Best Tekken Characters?
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arbitration
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I just finished watching this SF v. Tekken trailer, and shame on these people including Kazuya as the Tekken representative. It's like the Tekken creators honestly believe that Kazuya, Heihachi, and Jin are the marquee characters in the game. Everyone knows that the premier Tekken fighters are Eddy Gordo, Lei Wulong, and Forest Law, in that order.
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arbitration wrote: »I just finished watching this SF v. Tekken trailer, and shame on these people including Kazuya as the Tekken representative. It's like the Tekken creators honestly believe that Kazuya, Heihachi, and Jin are the marquee characters in the game. Everyone knows that the premier Tekken fighters are Eddy Gordo, Lei Wulong, and Forest Law, in that order.
Opinions,opinions,opinions. -
Heihache, Jin, Paul/ Kazuya/Eddy/King
basically Heihache and Jin > all others. its too hard to pick a 3rd rep -
Kazuya has been the face of tekken since tekken1, Jin took over on tekken 3
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arbitration wrote: »I just finished watching this SF v. Tekken trailer, and shame on these people including Kazuya as the Tekken representative. It's like the Tekken creators honestly believe that Kazuya, Heihachi, and Jin are the marquee characters in the game. Everyone knows that the premier Tekken fighters are Eddy Gordo, Lei Wulong, and Forest Law, in that order.
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Yes, because we all know the entire series revolves around the most (in)famous 'button masher-friendly' character in fighting game history (Eddy), a bumbling detective whose role in the series is comic relief/The resident Jackie Chan clone (Lei), and a pointless one-off palette-swap of one of the cheapest characters in the series (Forest Law). Let's also ignore the fact that Tekken is and has always been about/revolved around the Mishima family... -
Kazuya my fave tekken character so i disagree w/ this statement
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Yes, because we all know the entire series revolves around the most (in)famous 'button masher-friendly' character in fighting game history (Eddy), a bumbling detective whose role in the series is comic relief/The resident Jackie Chan clone (Lei), and a pointless one-off palette-swap of one of the cheapest characters in the series (Forest Law). Let's also ignore the fact that Tekken is and has always been about/revolved around the Mishima family...
No one pays attention to Tekken's story. Do you know why? Because its one massive pile of incoherence. If we wanna pick a representative for Tekken based on the hot garbage narrative that comprises the story instead of what makes Tekken truly a standout game, namely its rich in-depth fighting system, than yes, the Mishima family saga should be front and center. But if we want to do this by actual in-game fighting technique, then pick someone else besides Jin.
I'd take Eddy first because he essentially was the Michael Vick in Madden '04 - a character that was superior in everyway in before you learned the actual technique. Once you got his techniques down, he was basically invincible. People would actually make rules to never play him again he was that good. Lei had the most diverse move set in the entire game.
Kazuya was an awesome character. But Jin and Heihachi should definitely not be trumped up the way they are. -
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Yes, because we all know the entire series revolves around the most (in)famous 'button masher-friendly' character in fighting game history (Eddy), a bumbling detective whose role in the series is comic relief/The resident Jackie Chan clone (Lei), and a pointless one-off palette-swap of one of the cheapest characters in the series (Forest Law). Let's also ignore the fact that Tekken is and has always been about/revolved around the Mishima family...
Ether.
........and most def Co-Signed. -
arbitration wrote: »No one pays attention to Tekken's story. Do you know why? Because its one massive pile of incoherence. If we wanna pick a representative for Tekken based on the hot garbage narrative that comprises the story instead of what makes Tekken truly a standout game, namely its rich in-depth fighting system, than yes, the Mishima family saga should be front and center. But if we want to do this by actual in-game fighting technique, then pick someone else besides Jin.
I'd take Eddy first because he essentially was the Michael Vick in Madden '04 - a character that was superior in everyway in before you learned the actual technique. Once you got his techniques down, he was basically invincible. People would actually make rules to never play him again he was that good. Lei had the most diverse move set in the entire game.
Kazuya was an awesome character. But Jin and Heihachi should definitely not be trumped up the way they are.
...Name one 'coherent' fighting game story. Street Fighter's, for example, involves everything from demonic forces to cloning...And Mike Tyson and Billy Blanks thrown in for good measure.
However, no one really pays attention to Street Fighter's story because the gameplay is so good.
As for Tekken, it has one of the more straightforward stories among fighting games. Don't believe me? Check out King of Fighters' story.
But anyway, you could never read anything about Tekken's story and still know the story revolves around the Mishimas, as the games/series make it obvious in various ways... -
What a joke.arbitration wrote: »Everyone knows that the premier Tekken fighters are Eddy Gordo, Lei Wulong, and Forest Law, in that order. -
Was Eddy even top tier in tekken 3? I know he button mash friendly but I would think he had holes in his game
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bcotton2000@yahoo.com wrote: »Was Eddy even top tier in tekken 3? I know he button mash friendly but I would think he had holes in his game
Eddy got a lot of low moves and low parry shut down majority of his arsenal -
...Name one 'coherent' fighting game story. Street Fighter's, for example, involves everything from demonic forces to cloning...And Mike Tyson and Billy Blanks thrown in for good measure.
This is true. However, with SF, Capcom pushes Ryu and Chun-Li as the marquee characters, which are near the top when it comes to best moves sets in the game. Not the best, but they are in the conversation, so the correlation is there. For Tekken, I'll take Kazuya, but one would be hard-pressed to convince others that Heihachi and Kazuya have move sets comparable in speed and efficacy than Eddy, Lei, and Law. For starters, Heihachi and Kazuya's moves sets are a lot choppier, whereas with Lei, transitioning to different styles is relatively smooth. I'd just like to see more developed canon around those characters given that their move sets merit such attention.
Btw, Hworang is even more button masher friendly than Eddy. -
vagrant-718 wrote: »Eddy got a lot of low moves and low parry shut down majority of his arsenal
You're referring to the low triple leg sweeps he does, which most beginners focus on. But his most powerful moves focus on quick leg strikes to the face and mid section which when mixed up can easily dispatch combatants on most levels. As soon as people start mixing with Eddy, that's when he becomes the most dangerous fighter. -
arbitration wrote: »This is true. However, with SF, Capcom pushes Ryu and Chun-Li as the marquee characters, which are near the top when it comes to best moves sets in the game. Not the best, but they are in the conversation, so the correlation is there. For Tekken, I'll take Kazuya, but one would be hard-pressed to convince others that Heihachi and Kazuya have move sets comparable in speed and efficacy than Eddy, Lei, and Law. For starters, Heihachi and Kazuya's moves sets are a lot choppier, whereas with Lei, transitioning to different styles is relatively smooth. I'd just like to see more developed canon around those characters given that their move sets merit such attention.
Btw, Hworang is even more button masher friendly than Eddy.
Ryu and Chun Li have both been low tier in games in the series, ? Ryu was the worst character in the game in Street Fighter 2 world warrior -
arbitration wrote: »This is true. However, with SF, Capcom pushes Ryu and Chun-Li as the marquee characters, which are near the top when it comes to best moves sets in the game. Not the best, but they are in the conversation, so the correlation is there. For Tekken, I'll take Kazuya, but one would be hard-pressed to convince others that Heihachi and Kazuya have move sets comparable in speed and efficacy than Eddy, Lei, and Law. For starters, Heihachi and Kazuya's moves sets are a lot choppier, whereas with Lei, transitioning to different styles is relatively smooth. I'd just like to see more developed canon around those characters given that their move sets merit such attention.
Btw, Hworang is even more button masher friendly than Eddy.
I think Hworang is more complex than Eddy with his transitioning from left and right flamingo stances
T3 Hworang was more mash friendly than current T6 Hworang -
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Lol @ eddy...u gotta be ? kiddin me
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i think the eddy gordo part hurt u more than anything else...
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vagrant-718 wrote: »Kazuya my fave tekken character so i disagree w/ this statement
c/s real talk -
SMGDH @ Eddy
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bcotton2000@yahoo.com wrote: »Was Eddy even top tier in tekken 3? I know he button mash friendly but I would think he had holes in his game
...I've never seen the Tiers for Tekken 3, but I doubt he was near the top--He had a lot of holes in his gameplay in T3 at least.
EDIT: Here's a thread from the Tekken Forums on Tekken 3 Tiers:
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=68339&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
Several Tier Lists are posted, and I don't think any of 'em are official, but notice that Eddy isn't anywhere near the top on any of 'em... LOL -
...I've never seen the Tiers for Tekken 3, but I doubt he was near the top--He had a lot of holes in his gameplay in T3 at least.
EDIT: Here's a thread from the Tekken Forums on Tekken 3 Tiers:
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=68339&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
Several Tier Lists are posted, and I don't think any of 'em are official, but notice that Eddy isn't anywhere near the top on any of 'em... LOL
You can find people that say the exact opposite of this on the internet.
http://www.smashboards.com/news/blogs/92287/2548/tekken-6-bloodline-rebellion-tier-listoctober-06-2009
On this list, Eddy is listed well above Jin and Heihachi. This probably isn't official either, but guess what - neither are the forums you mentioned.
Look, the broader point has largely been lost on most posters here. It's not that somehow any character, be it Heihachi, Eddy, or Jin is the end all be all in the Tekken franchise. Its that in a game with a technique-set as aesthetically complex as Tekken, one would expect that the ambassador of the game would be reflective of said aesthetic. In my opinion, the aesthetic inheres in characters other than those of the Mishima clan. The reason why is because Tekken, as a flagship franchise among fighters, is at its best when the move set of the characters flow in a relatively smooth fashion. While Jin, Heihachi, and to a lesser extent Kazuya have among the most powerful moves in the game, these moves can often feel choppy and disjointed.
Reasonable minds can and should disagree on which character best embodies the smoothness that all fighting games aspire to mimic. But the fixation on lambasting the merits of a character, which has pervaded the previous points, stifles any room for discourse the issue. -
arbitration wrote: »You can find people that say the exact opposite of this on the internet.
http://www.smashboards.com/news/blogs/92287/2548/tekken-6-bloodline-rebellion-tier-listoctober-06-2009
On this list, Eddy is listed well above Jin and Heihachi. This probably isn't official either, but guess what - neither are the forums you mentioned.
...Did I not say that in my post?
Reading Comprehension works.Look, the broader point has largely been lost on most posters here. It's not that somehow any character, be it Heihachi, Eddy, or Jin is the end all be all in the Tekken franchise. Its that in a game with a technique-set as aesthetically complex as Tekken, one would expect that the ambassador of the game would be reflective of said aesthetic. In my opinion, the aesthetic inheres in characters other than those of the Mishima clan. The reason why is because Tekken, as a flagship franchise among fighters, is at its best when the move set of the characters flow in a relatively smooth fashion. While Jin, Heihachi, and to a lesser extent Kazuya have among the most powerful moves in the game, these moves can often feel choppy and disjointed.
Reasonable minds can and should disagree on which character best embodies the smoothness that all fighting games aspire to mimic. But the fixation on lambasting the merits of a character, which has pervaded the previous points, stifles any room for discourse the issue.
...What, besides said characters' backgrounds, was 'lambasted?' Everyone knows that Eddy and Law were cheap characters in T3, and that Lei is a Jackie Chan clone. Your little argument for 'aesthetically complex techniques' can be said about damn near any fighting game, especially other 3D ones.
Also, if Eddy is supposed to be one of the 'ambassadors' for the series, then where was he at before T3, and why is this the first time anyone has ever given him such importance to the series?
Moreover, the fact remains that (storyline-wise, like I and others have said/agreed with) the Tekken series is, has been, and most likely will always revolve around the Mishima family. Speaking of which, they aren't the only characters in the game with 'choppy' and 'disjointed' moves. -
...Did I not say that in my post?
Reading Comprehension works.
Yes, hence the term "either" in the post. Your powers of observation continue to astound, bravo....What, besides said characters' backgrounds, was 'lambasted?' Everyone knows that Eddy and Law were cheap characters in T3, and that Lei is a Jackie Chan clone. Your little argument for 'aesthetically complex techniques' can be said about damn near any fighting game, especially other 3D ones.
Also, if Eddy is supposed to be one of the 'ambassadors' for the series, then where was he at before T3, and why is this the first time anyone has ever given him such importance to the series?
Moreover, the fact remains that (storyline-wise, like I and others have said/agreed with) the Tekken series is, has been, and most likely will always revolve around the Mishima family. Speaking of which, they aren't the only characters in the game with 'choppy' and 'disjointed' moves.
These have nothing to do with what I said. But even more importantly, you're actually supporting my argument. When you say my argument can be said about every fighting game - that's exactly the point. Fighting games, like all video games, live and die on how well they play. This is what separates the next gen Mario's from the next-gen Sonic's, the "Arkham Asylums" from the "Iron Man: The Videogame" of the world. Especially with fighting games, people readily identify and vociferously defend their favorite players. Yes, you're right Shyheim, sometimes the reason you gain an attachment to a character because of his or her storyline. But more often than not, it comes down to a more fundamental and more intimate question. The deciding issue often is "how well do I play with this character?".
When you're with your friends and you say "X character is better than Y character in a fighting videogame", you never hear someone say "I love X's story, even though I get my *ss handed to me all the time when I play with him/her. Instead, you always hear "X is the best - let me beat you and show you". That is the core essence of not only fight gaming, but gaming in general.
As for Eddy not being in T1 or T2, that's irrelevant. Jin wasn't in T1 or T2 either. The point is that story is almost always a secondary consideration to playability.
The Mishimas aren't the only characters with choppy and disjointed play - more irrelevance. No one said that they were the only ones without smooth playability. The point here is that playability ought to be the rubric through which one analyzes who gets the cover, not story.
Look, forget about Eddy, he's not the point anymore. There is more interesting philosophical difference you and I are drawing. You place great weight on story as the aesthetic anchor of gaming, while I place great weight on a playability - a more utilitarian standard. We won't reach a consensus on this because of the divide, but I think its worth pointing out for everyone else to speak on. So IC, which dictates how you enjoy a fighting game character - the character's story or the character's playability? -
arbitration wrote: »Yes, hence the term "either" in the post. Your powers of observation continue to astound, bravo.
...As does your fanboyism for Eddy.
But please, continue on.These have nothing to do with what I said. But even more importantly, you're actually supporting my argument. When you say my argument can be said about every fighting game - that's exactly the point. Fighting games, like all video games, live and die on how well they play. This is what separates the next gen Mario's from the next-gen Sonic's, the "Arkham Asylums" from the "Iron Man: The Videogame" of the world. Especially with fighting games, people readily identify and vociferously defend their favorite players. Yes, you're right Shyheim, sometimes the reason you gain an attachment to a character because of his or her storyline. But more often than not, it comes down to a more fundamental and more intimate question. The deciding issue often is "how well do I play with this character?".
...So then, arbitration, what is your point? That Eddy, Lei, and Law are the best and only proper representation of the Tekken series' gameplay?
Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?When you're with your friends and you say "X character is better than Y character in a fighting videogame", you never hear someone say "I love X's story, even though I get my *ss handed to me all the time when I play with him/her. Instead, you always hear "X is the best - let me beat you and show you". That is the core essence of not only fight gaming, but gaming in general.
Look, forget about Eddy, he's not the point anymore. There is more interesting philosophical difference you and I are drawing. You place great weight on story as the aesthetic anchor of gaming, while I place great weight on a playability - a more utilitarian standard. We won't reach a consensus of this because of the divide, but I think its worth pointing out for everyone else to speak on. So IC, which dictates how you enjoy a fighting game character - the character's story or the character's playability?
...Okay, I see I have to clear something up, since you enjoy constantly bringing it up in an attempt to make a point--I do not place more importance (or 'great weight') on story than playability/gameplay. That, again, is ridiculous, and there would be no need for video games if it were the case. I mentioned those characters' backgrounds in my first post because I thought that's what you were getting at. Since then, I see that that was not the case. Therefore, you need to drop that, as it's not only tired, but an inaccurate assumption.
What I won't drop, however, is my disagreement with your assertion that Eddy, Lei, and Law's movesets & gameplay are the best representation of the series as a whole. Whether that's your opinion (Which is what it seems like, and I respect), or an official fact from Namco/Bandai, I still stand by what I said. So, in other words, we'll have to agree to disagree on this, as everyone has their 'favorites' when it comes to fighting games.As for Eddy not being in T1 or T2, that's irrelevant. Jin wasn't in T1 or T2 either. The point is that story is almost always a secondary consideration to playability.
...You saying that Eddy, Lei, and Law were the best representation of the Tekken series' gameplay was equally irrelevant...
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