Feminist Now Trying to Come After King Kendrick!!!
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5th Letter wrote: »We all know these feminists and white supremacists females 95% of the time go after black men for demestic violence.
No one is more racist than liberal white men or feminist white women. -
No one is more racist than liberal white men or feminist white women.
opinion not fact.
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »konceptjones wrote: »If it achieved its goal a long time ago then you wouldn't have ? like politicians saying ? like there's a difference between ? and "legitimate ? "...you wouldn't have states like Texas passing laws saying doctors can outright lie to pregnant women about the condition of the fetus/child growing inside them to prevent the chance of the woman wanting to terminate the pregnancy. There's a bunch more examples but those are just a couple of ones going on in the present. Look I'm definitely not saying I agree with those on the extreme end of things but to say that the goal has been achieved when there are literally laws being made restricting what women can and can't do...when you got rapists getting off with probation when they confess to the crime...when you got people in power saying a stay at home mother should be illegal that's an issue or women of color being penalized harder in the legal system than their white counterparts that's a part of their fight as well. The stuff you're saying your wife and friends believe in that's actually part of feminism too. The right for a woman to feel that way free of judgment. Its up to you to see the extreme for what it is and then sift through and see the true point which really ain't that hard to pinpoint. Its just easier to point out the extremists and use them to dismiss everything instead of actually seeing the real point being made with the issues that affect women directly.
So... you used an extremist to try to make a point? Seriously bruh???
Look... Every human being has free will and are able to choose what they want to believe and, much to your chagrin, they are able to say what they want whether it's socially acceptable or not. This is why you have extremists believing in ? like "legitimate ? " just as you still have white folks that believe Africans have tails and Black folks that believe whites were a genetic experiment by the Annunaki.
What you fail to understand is that the lawmakers in Texas are supported by women. There are women that are staunch anti-abortionists because they hold the belief that life begins at conception and that all life is sacred. Those women have a right to their beliefs just as much as women who believe in abortion as a woman's choice do. People like you fail to understand that while a person's belief may be distasteful to you, they're still entitled to it in a free society. Anything less is thought-control, and is a step towards a Big Brother-like society where anything outside of what those in power tell you to believe is a crime against the state.
Let me pull out something you just wrote...when you got rapists getting off with probation when they confess to the crime...
Fam... You know the several thousand female teachers that have been caught in the last few years committing statutory ? ? Do you know that most of them have received far lighter sentences than their male counterparts. Many of those women got off with probation while the convicted men sit in protective custody in prison for being "chomos". Relatively few of those women convicted have to register as a sex offender while the men that have committed the same crime will always have to. In fact...
https://www.law.umich.edu/newsandinfo/features/Pages/starr_gender_disparities.aspxIf you're a criminal defendant, it may help—a lot—to be a woman. At least, that's what Prof. Sonja Starr's research on federal criminal cases suggests. Prof. Starr's recent paper, "Estimating Gender Disparities in Federal Criminal Cases," looks closely at a large dataset of federal cases, and reveals some significant findings. After controlling for the arrest offense, criminal history, and other prior characteristics, "men receive 63% longer sentences on average than women do," and "[w]omen are…twice as likely to avoid incarceration if convicted." This gender gap is about six times as large as the racial disparity that Prof. Starr found in another recent paper.
So while you try to make an example out of one guy that got off with probation for a ? , there are thousands of women that did the same. Dude that got probation got that one-in-a-million lucky break; he needs to play Powerball. The average cat that was convicted of the same crime is going straight to prison, then forced to register as a sex offender, likely for life. What's worse about this whole tangent is that you genuinely know that dude is an out-lier and bringing his case up is as intellectually dishonest as you claim I'm trying to be.
Generally speaking a man doesn't even have to be convicted of ? to have his life destroyed.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-surrey-11676804
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/yes-false-accusations-destroy-lives/article/2557145
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/25/local/la-me-? -dismiss-20120525
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/29/mother-of-son-who-hanged-himself--after-being-accused-of/
Meanwhile women who falsely accuse men of ? walk away free in the vast majority of cases and, even worse, they're able to do so with complete anonymity because they're rarely ever named in the media.
You say women of color are sentenced harsher than their white counterparts? I offer that PEOPLE OF COLOR are sentenced harsher than their white counterparts and Black men, specifically, are ALWAYS on the ? up end of the stick when it comes down to it. There has been study after study done that show that Black men are many times more likely to receive a harsher sentence than EVERYONE for the same crime so why are you even bothering with just Black women when Black PEOPLE always get a raw deal?
Feminism, in this country has the mindset of "you're with us or against us". This means that women that want to be stay at home moms are the enemy of feminism, Muslim women that genuinely want to wear a hijab and dress modestly as taught by their belief system are the enemy of feminism, women that believe men are better suited to some tasks are the enemy of feminism, women that don't believe in abortion are the enemy of feminism. This is how they think.
Good post. Another point is that the so-called normal feminists never condemn the extremists. Just look at @Madame_CJSkywalker.
That's the biggest problem right there.
The extremists seem to be the voice of the feminist movement, and the "normal" ones won't speak out for fear of being ostracized and/or accused of not presenting a united front.
Very similar to how conventional republicans rarely speak out against the tea party/freedom caucus republicans. -
The main thing you failed to point out is that those feminist extremists you are caught up in allowing to define an entire movement aren't in the position to make and enforce laws such as politicians and judges. I never said people aren't entitled to their own beliefs. I don't take issue with people holding different opinions than me. I take issue with people using weak supporting arguments to prop up said opinions. I also simply said to allow those who you know and admit hold extreme views that don't align with the majority is lazy on your part because it gives an easy out to dismiss everything instead of actually seeing the points being made.
The extremists are the group that got "regret" turned into "? " and the laws have been drafted around that premise.To your point on female teachers being sentenced lighter than male teachers...well truthfully that goes back to how men paint sex. How often do those stories come out and the first reaction is "Damn where were those teachers when I was in school" or "That kid is stupid for telling"...As men we don't take sexual assault on young boys seriously regardless of who its committed by so that's not something you really should use to support your point.
Doesn't matter how we feel about it, the law is clear: Having sex or sexual contact with a child below the age of consent is a criminal act. There are no provisions for the sex of the child or the sex of the offender anywhere in this country. As such a female teacher caught having sex with a 15 year old male student should face the exact same punishment as a male teacher and 15 year old female student but in practice this is not the case.I spoke specifically to black women in terms of sentencing because this topic is about women and there issues specific to black women that other women do not have to deal with. And there is more than 1 example of of a rapists getting off with a light sentence. I wasn't specifically talking about the example with the Stanford case because theres been more than 1 recently where there has been a very light sentence in a case where the person has been guilty.
Those are still outliers. Thats like pointing to Soon Ja Du's probation and community service after murdering Latasha Harlins as something that happens often. Again, it's intellectually dishonest to point to fringe cases as if they're somehow a symptom of a larger problem when the overwhelming majority of similar cases are adjudicated in stark contrast to those few.All the ? you said their movement in this country is against is actually what they're fighting for. The right for them to do those things free of judgement. The mere fact that this information is out there yet you choose to ignore it because it doesn't fit the narrative you want to rail against is lazy. I acknowledged there's extremists...you acknowledge there's extremists only difference is youre admittedly allowing that small group to define the whole instead of doing the smart thing and seeing that they're the outliers and the average person doesn't follow that line of thinking. The fact that a great number of women of color of all backgrounds don't even refer to themselves as feminists but use another term instead should be enough to let you know they don't follow the train of thought you're trying to box them into
Nothing in this world is free from judgment. There is no right for anyone to do something and be free from judgment; that's some fairy tale ? . If that were the case, then a 40-something year old balding white man with a handlebar mustache would be able to get a job as a babysitter without everyone assuming he's a ? looking to ? your child.
As I said earlier, the small group has the mic, they have control over the narrative, they're the loudest, most outspoken group. They have the media presence no one else has ergo they are the current face of feminism.
If they are a mis-characterization of feminism, then feminists that don't subscribe to their ideologies need to speak up loudly to denounce the extremists in the same way Muslims that are being mis-characterized by the likes of Al Qaeda, ISIS, and the like and need to.
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Its crazy because I look back in the past & a lot of chicks would've looked better today if they didn't play with their face & features
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Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »Essentially they have a problem with men having preferences. So they go looking for something to get upset about
If somebody has a problem with your preference it's usually because they don't fit said preference...in other words it's somebody who is insecure and would find a problem with anything and you shouldn't even bother to pay attention to them.
i agree
the issue isn't with him stating his preferences though
truth is is that having a certain look comes with social benefits and privileges for women. instead of challenging that system of value, he is prioritizing his preferences in it
that's the issue
Human beings have eyes and human civilizations are hierarchical so looks and physical features will always have a value.
It's not even a gender specific thing like feminists try to paint because both male and female have idealized versions of themselves. Those who fit that ideal are valued higher.
For example taller men are preferred over short men. Fitter men are respected more than fat men. Dark skin men are seen as more masculine and more dangerous.
Preferences are natural. Hierarchies are natural you don't have successful examples of multicultural societies.
while looks matter....evolution and ?
what's considered attractive is also subjective...
if one thinks about the things we find attractive or unattractive and compares them to the things that truly indicate genetic health or youth 5 times out of 10 they don't overlap
some cultures like fat ppl over skinny ppl
but I digress
we live in a male dominated society that depicts women as commodities ....and places more value in a woman's attractiveness over her intelligence and character
opposed to men who are more so valued for their minds, athleticism, leadership skills and career orientated endeavors ....being we also live in a capitalistic society, men subsequently have more avenues to move up the social/economic ladder which helps to perpetuate the power imbalances favoring men
even in the movies or tv, the most unattractive men ends up with the attractive girl because he won her over with his mind, athleticism, bank account, etc
that said, at the moment looking like lira galore and kim kardashian comes with very real social benefits and privileges
so if your agenda is to empower women, why than bash and shame them for wanting to look like these women opposed to challenging the cultural forces that places a kim k on a pedestal?
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »Essentially they have a problem with men having preferences. So they go looking for something to get upset about
If somebody has a problem with your preference it's usually because they don't fit said preference...in other words it's somebody who is insecure and would find a problem with anything and you shouldn't even bother to pay attention to them.
i agree
the issue isn't with him stating his preferences though
truth is is that having a certain look comes with social benefits and privileges for women. instead of challenging that system of value, he is prioritizing his preferences in it
that's the issue
Human beings have eyes and human civilizations are hierarchical so looks and physical features will always have a value.
It's not even a gender specific thing like feminists try to paint because both male and female have idealized versions of themselves. Those who fit that ideal are valued higher.
For example taller men are preferred over short men. Fitter men are respected more than fat men. Dark skin men are seen as more masculine and more dangerous.
Preferences are natural. Hierarchies are natural you don't have successful examples of multicultural societies.
The bold is false. Most great empires were multicultural societies. You're perpetuating the lies white nationalists use to push their ? .
Not a multicultural power structure.
A multicultural plebian class yea but they were all suborned to a more powerful unified class -
They're in the minority.
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »konceptjones wrote: »If it achieved its goal a long time ago then you wouldn't have ? like politicians saying ? like there's a difference between ? and "legitimate ? "...you wouldn't have states like Texas passing laws saying doctors can outright lie to pregnant women about the condition of the fetus/child growing inside them to prevent the chance of the woman wanting to terminate the pregnancy. There's a bunch more examples but those are just a couple of ones going on in the present. Look I'm definitely not saying I agree with those on the extreme end of things but to say that the goal has been achieved when there are literally laws being made restricting what women can and can't do...when you got rapists getting off with probation when they confess to the crime...when you got people in power saying a stay at home mother should be illegal that's an issue or women of color being penalized harder in the legal system than their white counterparts that's a part of their fight as well. The stuff you're saying your wife and friends believe in that's actually part of feminism too. The right for a woman to feel that way free of judgment. Its up to you to see the extreme for what it is and then sift through and see the true point which really ain't that hard to pinpoint. Its just easier to point out the extremists and use them to dismiss everything instead of actually seeing the real point being made with the issues that affect women directly.
So... you used an extremist to try to make a point? Seriously bruh???
Look... Every human being has free will and are able to choose what they want to believe and, much to your chagrin, they are able to say what they want whether it's socially acceptable or not. This is why you have extremists believing in ? like "legitimate ? " just as you still have white folks that believe Africans have tails and Black folks that believe whites were a genetic experiment by the Annunaki.
What you fail to understand is that the lawmakers in Texas are supported by women. There are women that are staunch anti-abortionists because they hold the belief that life begins at conception and that all life is sacred. Those women have a right to their beliefs just as much as women who believe in abortion as a woman's choice do. People like you fail to understand that while a person's belief may be distasteful to you, they're still entitled to it in a free society. Anything less is thought-control, and is a step towards a Big Brother-like society where anything outside of what those in power tell you to believe is a crime against the state.
Let me pull out something you just wrote...when you got rapists getting off with probation when they confess to the crime...
Fam... You know the several thousand female teachers that have been caught in the last few years committing statutory ? ? Do you know that most of them have received far lighter sentences than their male counterparts. Many of those women got off with probation while the convicted men sit in protective custody in prison for being "chomos". Relatively few of those women convicted have to register as a sex offender while the men that have committed the same crime will always have to. In fact...
https://www.law.umich.edu/newsandinfo/features/Pages/starr_gender_disparities.aspxIf you're a criminal defendant, it may help—a lot—to be a woman. At least, that's what Prof. Sonja Starr's research on federal criminal cases suggests. Prof. Starr's recent paper, "Estimating Gender Disparities in Federal Criminal Cases," looks closely at a large dataset of federal cases, and reveals some significant findings. After controlling for the arrest offense, criminal history, and other prior characteristics, "men receive 63% longer sentences on average than women do," and "[w]omen are…twice as likely to avoid incarceration if convicted." This gender gap is about six times as large as the racial disparity that Prof. Starr found in another recent paper.
So while you try to make an example out of one guy that got off with probation for a ? , there are thousands of women that did the same. Dude that got probation got that one-in-a-million lucky break; he needs to play Powerball. The average cat that was convicted of the same crime is going straight to prison, then forced to register as a sex offender, likely for life. What's worse about this whole tangent is that you genuinely know that dude is an out-lier and bringing his case up is as intellectually dishonest as you claim I'm trying to be.
Generally speaking a man doesn't even have to be convicted of ? to have his life destroyed.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-surrey-11676804
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/yes-false-accusations-destroy-lives/article/2557145
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/25/local/la-me-? -dismiss-20120525
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/29/mother-of-son-who-hanged-himself--after-being-accused-of/
Meanwhile women who falsely accuse men of ? walk away free in the vast majority of cases and, even worse, they're able to do so with complete anonymity because they're rarely ever named in the media.
You say women of color are sentenced harsher than their white counterparts? I offer that PEOPLE OF COLOR are sentenced harsher than their white counterparts and Black men, specifically, are ALWAYS on the ? up end of the stick when it comes down to it. There has been study after study done that show that Black men are many times more likely to receive a harsher sentence than EVERYONE for the same crime so why are you even bothering with just Black women when Black PEOPLE always get a raw deal?
Feminism, in this country has the mindset of "you're with us or against us". This means that women that want to be stay at home moms are the enemy of feminism, Muslim women that genuinely want to wear a hijab and dress modestly as taught by their belief system are the enemy of feminism, women that believe men are better suited to some tasks are the enemy of feminism, women that don't believe in abortion are the enemy of feminism. This is how they think.
Good post. Another point is that the so-called normal feminists never condemn the extremists. Just look at @Madame_CJSkywalker. I don't think she's extreme even though I don't always agree with her. And she will say when something is overblown but then she'll defend it just like she did in this topic. If you're going to argue that a point has merit, you can't call it extreme.
i call out the extremist and the ignorance all the time when it's appropriate and or necessary
with the kdot situation, if you wade through the ? some of his critics raised some valid points... that is not me contradicting myself
extremists can have legitimate grievances
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Not a multicultural power structure.
A multicultural plebian class yea but they were all suborned to a more powerful unified class
That's not really true. Take the Roman empire for instance. Of course, the Romans controlled it, but people among those they conquered also had power and more importantly those cultures affected Rome and the Roman culture. It's pretty much the same with all great empires many of which were around a lot longer than modern empires/powers.Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »
i call out the extremist and the ignorance all the time when it's appropriate and or necessary
with the kdot situation, if you wade through the ? some of his critics raised some valid points... that is not me contradicting myself
extremists can have legitimate grievances
I've never seen you do that. I'm not saying you haven't. I haven't seen it. And I don't really see any valid points in this situation. At the end of the day, you guys are bashing this man for giving his perspective on what he finds attractive and what he'd like to see from women. Since when were men not allowed to have preferences and make those preferences known?
Why is it that black women feel like they can get on TV, the radio, basically anywhere they get a voice and criticize black men, but if a black man uses his voice to simply give his perspective, he deserves to be attacked?
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »Not a multicultural power structure.
A multicultural plebian class yea but they were all suborned to a more powerful unified class
That's not really true. Take the Roman empire for instance. Of course, the Romans controlled it, but people among those they conquered also had power and more importantly those cultures affected Rome and the Roman culture. It's pretty much the same with all great empires many of which were around a lot longer than modern empires/powers.Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »
i call out the extremist and the ignorance all the time when it's appropriate and or necessary
with the kdot situation, if you wade through the ? some of his critics raised some valid points... that is not me contradicting myself
extremists can have legitimate grievances
I've never seen you do that. I'm not saying you haven't. I haven't seen it. And I don't really see any valid points in this situation. At the end of the day, you guys are bashing this man for giving his perspective on what he finds attractive and what he'd like to see from women. Since when were men not allowed to have preferences and make those preferences known?
Why is it that black women feel like they can get on TV, the radio, basically anywhere they get a voice and criticize black men, but if a black man uses his voice to simply give his perspective, he deserves to be attacked?
i've never seen you do a lot of ? but i 'm not going to automatically presume that do or don't do something because it doesn't fit my narrative
you're going to have to just trust me
otherwise i really don't believe i've just been out here defending just any ol ? ....you disagree ....cool...
and here we go with the 'well he was stating his preferences'....'why is that so wrong"
again the issue isn't with him simply stating his preferences though. at least from what i gathered. as i stated before, looking like lira galore opposed to india arie comes with social benefits and privileges for women. instead of challenging that system of value, he is prioritizing his preferences in it
i don't how else to explain it
you think it's all dumb or whatever ...cool... let's agree to disagree ...if that makes you think less of me ...dope lol
and let me get this straight...
so when a blk woman uses a public platform to criticize blk man she isn't also "attacked", regardless of whether she makes valid points???? lol i've observed this ...it happens...and is there is nothing wrong with it- discussing our grievances and differences.... checking ppl when they need to checked...it can be a learning experience.....lol
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konceptjones wrote: »
As I said earlier, the small group has the mic, they have control over the narrative, they're the loudest, most outspoken group. They have the media presence no one else has ergo they are the current face of feminism.
If they are a mis-characterization of feminism, then feminists that don't subscribe to their ideologies need to speak up loudly to denounce the extremists. -
Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Not a multicultural power structure.
A multicultural plebian class yea but they were all suborned to a more powerful unified class
That's not really true. Take the Roman empire for instance. Of course, the Romans controlled it, but people among those they conquered also had power and more importantly those cultures affected Rome and the Roman culture. It's pretty much the same with all great empires many of which were around a lot longer than modern empires/powers.Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »
i call out the extremist and the ignorance all the time when it's appropriate and or necessary
with the kdot situation, if you wade through the ? some of his critics raised some valid points... that is not me contradicting myself
extremists can have legitimate grievances
I've never seen you do that. I'm not saying you haven't. I haven't seen it. And I don't really see any valid points in this situation. At the end of the day, you guys are bashing this man for giving his perspective on what he finds attractive and what he'd like to see from women. Since when were men not allowed to have preferences and make those preferences known?
Why is it that black women feel like they can get on TV, the radio, basically anywhere they get a voice and criticize black men, but if a black man uses his voice to simply give his perspective, he deserves to be attacked?
i've never seen you do a lot of ? but i 'm not going to automatically presume that do or don't do something because it doesn't fit my narrative
you're going to have to just trust me
otherwise i really don't believe i've just been out here defending just any ol ? ....you disagree ....cool...
and here we go with the 'well he was stating his preferences'....'why is that so wrong"
again the issue isn't with him simply stating his preferences though. at least from what i gathered. as i stated before, looking like lira galore opposed to india arie comes with social benefits and privileges for women. instead of challenging that system of value, he is prioritizing his preferences in it
i don't how else to explain it
you think it's all dumb or whatever ...cool... let's agree to disagree ...if that makes you think less of me ...dope lol
and let me get this straight...
so when a blk woman uses a public platform to criticize blk man she isn't also "attacked", regardless of whether she makes valid points???? lol i've observed this ...it happens...and is there is nothing wrong with it- discussing our grievances and differences.... checking ppl when they need to checked...it can be a learning experience.....lol
not one black woman has lost her platform or even her job for criticizing black men. Can't say the same vice versa. -
Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »Essentially they have a problem with men having preferences. So they go looking for something to get upset about
If somebody has a problem with your preference it's usually because they don't fit said preference...in other words it's somebody who is insecure and would find a problem with anything and you shouldn't even bother to pay attention to them.
i agree
the issue isn't with him stating his preferences though
truth is is that having a certain look comes with social benefits and privileges for women. instead of challenging that system of value, he is prioritizing his preferences in it
that's the issue
Human beings have eyes and human civilizations are hierarchical so looks and physical features will always have a value.
It's not even a gender specific thing like feminists try to paint because both male and female have idealized versions of themselves. Those who fit that ideal are valued higher.
For example taller men are preferred over short men. Fitter men are respected more than fat men. Dark skin men are seen as more masculine and more dangerous.
Preferences are natural. Hierarchies are natural you don't have successful examples of multicultural societies.
so if your agenda is to empower women, why than bash and shame them for wanting to look like these women opposed to challenging the cultural forces that places a kim k on a pedestal?
Bashing and shaming huh?
You really believe that's what Kendrick was doing too don't you?
Why couldn't his comments have been perceived as constructive criticism?
Are you suggesting that women shouldn't be subject to any criticism at all?
If we're all supposed to be equal.......which would mean that no one is exempt from criticism......then your comments don't reflect that belief because you seem to be implying that women shouldn't be criticized for anything.
In your mind there's doesn't appear to be any difference between criticism and bashing/shaming. -
Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »
i call out the extremist and the ignorance all the time when it's appropriate and or necessary
with the kdot situation, if you wade through the ? some of his critics raised some valid points... that is not me contradicting myself
extremists can have legitimate grievances
Unbelievable.
Well, not really.
The bolded is what you do all the time.
You never outright condemn anything these radical feminists do.
You always have to throw in some caveat or disclaimer to justify their actions.
Basically, all of your "calling out" of radical feminists results in nothing more than saying............."yeah, but" -
Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »
i've never seen you do a lot of ? but i 'm not going to automatically presume that do or don't do something because it doesn't fit my narrative
you're going to have to just trust me
otherwise i really don't believe i've just been out here defending just any ol ? ....you disagree ....cool...
and here we go with the 'well he was stating his preferences'....'why is that so wrong"
again the issue isn't with him simply stating his preferences though. at least from what i gathered. as i stated before, looking like lira galore opposed to india arie comes with social benefits and privileges for women. instead of challenging that system of value, he is prioritizing his preferences in it
i don't how else to explain it
you think it's all dumb or whatever ...cool... let's agree to disagree ...if that makes you think less of me ...dope lol
and let me get this straight...
so when a blk woman uses a public platform to criticize blk man she isn't also "attacked", regardless of whether she makes valid points???? lol i've observed this ...it happens...and is there is nothing wrong with it- discussing our grievances and differences.... checking ppl when they need to checked...it can be a learning experience.....lol
Look I don't know what else to say. What's the point of feminism? To gain equal treatment, equal respect, and equal rights for women. Find me a man that isn't an extreme misogynist or sexist that doesn't want all those same things for women. Do all men agree with all feminists on all matters? Of course not. That will never happen because we don't think the same and we never will. However, does it help to attack a person every time he expresses a personal opinion, desire, or preference that differs from your own?
Does looking like Lira Galore offer more benefits in this society than looking like India Arie? Probably, but what does that have to do with anything? He wasn't addressing that problem. So based on what you're saying, they are going at him because he made a statement that was true to his own views instead of making the statement they feel he should have made. If you don't see the problem, I don't know what to tell you.
I will say that's why this "extremist" argument ya'll always try to use is ? . I freely give you credit for not being an extremist, yet you are fighting tooth and nail to defend the ? . Discussing grievances and differences is fine. Checking people that need to be checked is too. But from what I've seen, there's like 10 different reasons floating around for why Kendrick was wrong in this situation and none of them make any sense. Feminists are just attacking him to attack him. That ? is divisive. If you feel like division helps your cause, then fine, ya'll keep doing what you're doing. But I personally can't understand how going out of your way to find fault with any and everything that any black man does at any time can possibly serve your purpose...unless of course if you're one of those man hating extremists whose purpose is separation from the black man. -
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Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »
i call out the extremist and the ignorance all the time when it's appropriate and or necessary
with the kdot situation, if you wade through the ? some of his critics raised some valid points... that is not me contradicting myself
extremists can have legitimate grievances
Unbelievable.
Well, not really.
The bolded is what you do all the time.
You never outright condemn anything these radical feminists do.
You always have to throw in some caveat or disclaimer to justify their actions.
Basically, all of your "calling out" of radical feminists results in nothing more than saying............."yeah, but"
women, feminist
we are individuals, not a monolith
that said, the video featured a lot of controversial imagery so naturally it garnered a lot of attention and opinions from different people
most the tweets, blogs I read about the video from men and women were just ppl seeking attention, which they got.....like the complaints about the girl in his video being light skinned... some ppl didn't like he was dressed as the pope at one point
still some of the critiques I believe were valid
*shrugs*
and what you may consider extreme, I may not
so there's that
also when someone posted the video of the ladies at the breakfast club I acknowledged they got things wrong and it was problematic
and I do believe there are feminist who conflate bad behavior with criminal behavior when discussing ? culture which is highly problematic
I believe the family court system is broken and a man should have the opportunity to sign away his financial responsibilities for a child within a certain time frame
? some feminist strongly disagree with
things I've discussed on numerous of times
-
Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »
i call out the extremist and the ignorance all the time when it's appropriate and or necessary
with the kdot situation, if you wade through the ? some of his critics raised some valid points... that is not me contradicting myself
extremists can have legitimate grievances
Unbelievable.
Well, not really.
The bolded is what you do all the time.
You never outright condemn anything these radical feminists do.
You always have to throw in some caveat or disclaimer to justify their actions.
Basically, all of your "calling out" of radical feminists results in nothing more than saying............."yeah, but"
women, feminist
we are individuals, not a monolith
that said, the video featured a lot of controversial imagery so naturally it garnered a lot of attention and opinions from different people
most the tweets, blogs I read about the video from men and women were just ppl seeking attention, which they got.....like the complaints about the girl in his video being light skinned... some ppl didn't like he was dressed as the pope at one point
still some of the critiques I believe were valid
*shrugs*
and what you may consider extreme, I may not
so there's that
also when someone posted the video of the ladies at the breakfast club I acknowledged they got things wrong and it was problematic
and I do believe there are feminist who conflate bad behavior with criminal behavior when discussing ? culture which is highly problematic
Do you remember what you said? I didn't see you comment on it. I'm not calling you a liar. I'm just curious about your perspective.
Those chicks annoyed the ? out of me, but like I said, I don't think they were extremists. I don't think they were bad or many of their points were bad. But they are a good reason why I think feminism is dangerous and should be dismissed. Like the example I gave in this topic. When they got on there and said that black men are the number one cause of death for black women, that's an egregious lie. The only people other than them that I've seen say ? like that is members of White Supremacist groups. When they say it, it's almost harmless, because no one believes anything a KKK member says about blacks except other KKK members/white supremacists. However, if a black woman says it, people will take it as truth because they feel black women would have no reason to lie about that. Even Charlemagne bought into it. Now, if I say that on the whole, those two chicks might be examples of reasonable feminists, what does it say about feminism, in general, if even the reasonable ones are out their using dishonesty or speaking in ignorance in a way that can harm the community? -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »
i've never seen you do a lot of ? but i 'm not going to automatically presume that do or don't do something because it doesn't fit my narrative
you're going to have to just trust me
otherwise i really don't believe i've just been out here defending just any ol ? ....you disagree ....cool...
and here we go with the 'well he was stating his preferences'....'why is that so wrong"
again the issue isn't with him simply stating his preferences though. at least from what i gathered. as i stated before, looking like lira galore opposed to india arie comes with social benefits and privileges for women. instead of challenging that system of value, he is prioritizing his preferences in it
i don't how else to explain it
you think it's all dumb or whatever ...cool... let's agree to disagree ...if that makes you think less of me ...dope lol
and let me get this straight...
so when a blk woman uses a public platform to criticize blk man she isn't also "attacked", regardless of whether she makes valid points???? lol i've observed this ...it happens...and is there is nothing wrong with it- discussing our grievances and differences.... checking ppl when they need to checked...it can be a learning experience.....lol
Look I don't know what else to say. What's the point of feminism? To gain equal treatment, equal respect, and equal rights for women. Find me a man that isn't an extreme misogynist or sexist that doesn't want all those same things for women. Do all men agree with all feminists on all matters? Of course not. That will never happen because we don't think the same and we never will. However, does it help to attack a person every time he expresses a personal opinion, desire, or preference that differs from your own?
Does looking like Lira Galore offer more benefits in this society than looking like India Arie? Probably, but what does that have to do with anything? He wasn't addressing that problem. So based on what you're saying, they are going at him because he made a statement that was true to his own views instead of making the statement they feel he should have made. If you don't see the problem, I don't know what to tell you.
I will say that's why this "extremist" argument ya'll always try to use is ? . I freely give you credit for not being an extremist, yet you are fighting tooth and nail to defend the ? . Discussing grievances and differences is fine. Checking people that need to be checked is too. But from what I've seen, there's like 10 different reasons floating around for why Kendrick was wrong in this situation and none of them make any sense. Feminists are just attacking him to attack him. That ? is divisive. If you feel like division helps your cause, then fine, ya'll keep doing what you're doing. But I personally can't understand how going out of your way to find fault with any and everything that any black man does at any time can possibly serve your purpose...unless of course if you're one of those man hating extremists whose purpose is separation from the black man.
your knowledge of feminism is very limited, so all I can suggest is try reading angela davis...
they aren't necessarily the most moderate, bell hooks in particular...but if you care enough to get a better understanding of what you are criticizing start there
that said, it's hard growing up as a hip hop fan if you are somewhat conscious, especially if you are a somewhat conscious blk woman
especially when you get alittle older and start to reallly absorb what you are consuming
the industry caters to men...and they don't really push a lot of female artists
most the lyric are sexist at best, misgonistic at worst...even a lot of the underground
we can just stop listening to hip hop, but it's hard when that's what you grew up with ...and you can still relate and/or appreciate the other aspects of the music like the bravado and production
plus it's everywhere
then when we get someone who is somewhat conscious and pro blk like a kendrick we begin to expect or at least hope for that artist not do and say certain things or to just 'get it'...when they don't it's disappointing ....and they are expressing their disappointment
and can we stop pretending as though he is just stating what he likes and didn't have an agenda when he says he is tired of 'photo shop' and 'he wants to see stretch marks' ....he is clearly joining in on the recent "movement" to end the use of IG filters and other means to enhance a woman's beauty
dope idea on the surface, but again the execution is lacking
it's going to be hard for you to understand ...but at least I wish yall would emphasize and stop seeing every criticism as an "attack"
-
here's an article from a young lady that serves good insight into some of the backlash
Our Unreasonable And Arbitrarily Critical Standards For Women Making An Effort To Enhance Their Beauty
There’s a lot of huff made these days about social media and an alleged rise in vanity and narcissism (despite neither being all that quantifiable). People bemoan Snapchat filters, Facetune, and the heavily glammed up ladies that employ their visual enhancing features. Not surprisingly, this huff is usually directed at women; most of whom are often accused of being both vapid and dubious. Obviously filters can be made to beautify; they smooth skin, slim faces, and brighten teeth. Waists can be snatched, hips curved, ? can be plumped, noses can be nipped, all with the swipe of a screen or touch of a button. We are indeed living in a much more visual world, and a lot of us are much more image savvy than our generational predecessors. That being said, it doesn’t necessarily explain the vitriol sometimes directed at women who people accuse of “faking” or “cheating” at being beautiful and are deemed unworthy of such acclaim.
We’ve all seen the shock and dismay at “before & after” pictures of women who have undergone a dramatic transformation with the help of a skilled makeup artist. Peruse the comments under any such image on Facebook, IG, or Twitter and what you’ll often see is a range of shock, awe, and disgust baked into commentary characterized as harmless jokes.
Men will exclaim “? like this is why I have trust issues” and even other women will chime in to agree that this type of ‘transformation’ is both deceitful and unnecessary. The overall reaction seems to imply that people get very disturbed when the women they deem naturally unattractive can be thought to be attractive even in a passing moment. You can see the same elements regarding imagery of women who’ve had surgical enhancements often prompting the cry “What is the world coming to? What happened to [real] natural beauty?”
Beauty is a complicated thing; some folks say its subjective or political. Some folks try to measure it with the golden ratio and assemble a list of white actresses who allegedly embody its perfection. However, what’s indisputable is that beauty is a commodity and treated as such. These days, the everyday woman has unprecedented access to plastic surgery procedures, make up techniques, advanced weave & lace front technology and photo enhancing methods that were once only available to starlets. Consequently, as with anything in this world, once something becomes more accessible, people begin to elect themselves arbiters, gatekeepers, and protectors of its purer, “realer” form. If beauty is no longer as exclusive, how do we then value it? If any ole woman can become “beautiful” then what other metric can a woman’s value can women be judged by? Something trivial like her personality or character?! Who wants that? Who can be trusted?!
That seems to be at the root of the panic found in men who express feeling violated for having been attracted to a complete stranger that benefits greatly from skillfully applied makeup or clever camera angles, and women who find themselves competing for male attention with other women who might have purchased the coveted physical features they were born with. The floodgates are open, and now anyone with about $5-8k and a ticket to the Dominican Republic, can become desirable. Is this really some sort of social anarchy that merits panic? A significant indicator of moral decay?
Now, there might be some arguable valid concerns in all of this. As there is a rise in plastic surgery that a AAFRPS survey associates with social media, and while that in itself is not necessarily a morally “bad” thing, it can translate to more opportunity for unscrupulous and bootleg plastic surgeons, and invasive procedures do involve risk. Several people have died from non-FDA approved butt shots, in an attempt to obtain the homogeneous body shape of prized IG models. And there is always that margin of people who go for unfathomable body proportions, and charlatans who tout their new BBL (Brazilian Butt Lift) as the result of the new Flat Tummy Tea and workout regimen they’re selling. One can argue that it contributes to unrealistic expectations for women, but has ‘natural beauty’ ever been more attainable? So often people couch facile critiques of women’s choices in regards to their appearance, in feigned concern for their health and well being, it’s hard to discern what’s what. Reinforcement of beauty standards is so often about obedience, not health and certainly not the benefit of women.
Humans have always been image conscious, and it’s likely since the first black obsidian glass mirrors were made in Antonia we’ve found ways to beautify and improve the reflections staring back at us. And while we have more advanced smoke & mirrors at our disposal, the average woman is not that skilled at drastic transformations. Sometimes a professionally beat face can be a treat, self expression, or a cathartic indulgence. Sometimes you just wanna conceal a hormonal breakout, sometimes dog ears are just fun, sometimes you decide you’re finally gonna go through with that ‘mommy makeover’ because it’s time do something for yourself. Hell, sometimes you just wanna look like the prototypical ‘bad ? .’ Maybe you are feeling a little insecure about your appearance, is that ok? These motivations however, are not always tell-tell signs of low self esteem, intent to deceive or shame or an omen of a doomed generation.
The difference between repulsive vanity and celebration of beauty seems to depend on who’s holding the lens. It’s acceptable when a woman’s beauty is celebrated by observers, but not when she’s leading the parade herself. Despite that meme (you know the one) depicting a woman on her knees giving ? to various ? shaped social media platforms that your MCM crush posts on IG with a ‘Food 4 thought’ caption, social media is not corrupting masses of wimmenz. Nor is it leading them down a path of wayward digital ? ? in an attempt for validation.
We’ve always lived in a world where beauty is demanded of women, and those who cannot or are disinterested in producing it are ignored, mocked and /or scorned, those who try to conform are mocked and scorned, and those who fit within its relative parameters while celebrated are also treated like possessions. It’s a difficult maze that we all struggle in navigating while trying to maintain some semblance of sanity and positive self image, and the world as we know it is not in danger because a few of us engage in a little more pageantry and self aggrandizing along the way.
P.S – You will have to pry the blue hued SC filter from my cold dead hands, my phone’s front facing camera makes me look like a skeptical potato
http://verysmartbrothas.com/our-unreasonable-and-arbitrarily-critical-standards-for-women-making-an-effort-to-enhance-their-beauty/ -
Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »
your knowledge of feminism is very limited, so all I can suggest is try reading angela davis...
they aren't necessarily the most moderate, bell hooks in particular...but if you care enough to get a better understanding of what you are criticizing start there
that said, it's hard growing up as a hip hop fan if you are somewhat conscious, especially if you are a somewhat conscious blk woman
especially when you get alittle older and start to reallly absorb what you are consuming
the industry caters to men...and they don't really push a lot of female artists
most the lyric are sexist at best, misgonistic at worst...even a lot of the underground
we can just stop listening to hip hop, but it's hard when that's what you grew up with ...and you can still relate and/or appreciate the other aspects of the music like the bravado and production
plus it's everywhere
then when we get someone who is somewhat conscious and pro blk like a kendrick we begin to expect or at least hope for that artist not do and say certain things or to just 'get it'...when they don't it's disappointing ....and they are expressing their disappointment
and can we stop pretending as though he is just stating what he likes and didn't have an agenda when he says he is tired of 'photo shop' and 'he wants to see stretch marks' ....he is clearly joining in on the recent "movement" to end the use of IG filters and other means to enhance a woman's beauty
dope idea on the surface, but again the execution is lacking
it's going to be hard for you to understand ...but at least I wish yall would emphasize and stop seeing every criticism as an "attack"
Maybe you need to go back and look at some of those comments, but they were not worded the way you just put things. Most of them were of the "Kendrick is is a fake. I won't be supporting him anymore" variety. How is that not an attack? If it was just a bunch of comments from women saying they were disappointed that he didn't really get how they felt, we would not be talking about this because that wouldn't be deemed a "controversy." The reason we're talking about this is because the general tone of the criticisms were hostile.
And I get what you're saying about Hip Hop. Sometimes I wonder how females can even be Hip Hop fans. I don't necessarily think it's as bad as you just portrayed it, but it is rarely flattering, I think we can agree on that.
I also think you're making assumptions that are unfounded. You're saying he's joining on some movement to end IG filters. That would make sense I guess if he said something about IG, but he didn't. He mentioned photoshop, and the backlash against the use of photoshop to create a false perception of beauty has been around since before IG even existed.
Ya'll really need to take what he said for what it is and stop adding to it. Then maybe you'd understand why many people (male and female) think you're being ridiculous with these criticisms.
On another note, I don't know why you keep trying to act like I know nothing about feminism just because I don't agree with it. I've never read Angela Davis, but I've heard her and others that are considered prominent speak. I'm not the expert on feminism that you are, but I'm not so ignorant to it and many of the concerns it raises that my viewpoint on it can just be dismissed. At the end of the day, we've been down this road. I've presented claims made by feminists that were false and showed they were false. What more do I need to know if at a fundamental level may of the things you guys are pushing nowadays are simply untrue? -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »
i call out the extremist and the ignorance all the time when it's appropriate and or necessary
with the kdot situation, if you wade through the ? some of his critics raised some valid points... that is not me contradicting myself
extremists can have legitimate grievances
Unbelievable.
Well, not really.
The bolded is what you do all the time.
You never outright condemn anything these radical feminists do.
You always have to throw in some caveat or disclaimer to justify their actions.
Basically, all of your "calling out" of radical feminists results in nothing more than saying............."yeah, but"
women, feminist
we are individuals, not a monolith
that said, the video featured a lot of controversial imagery so naturally it garnered a lot of attention and opinions from different people
most the tweets, blogs I read about the video from men and women were just ppl seeking attention, which they got.....like the complaints about the girl in his video being light skinned... some ppl didn't like he was dressed as the pope at one point
still some of the critiques I believe were valid
*shrugs*
and what you may consider extreme, I may not
so there's that
also when someone posted the video of the ladies at the breakfast club I acknowledged they got things wrong and it was problematic
and I do believe there are feminist who conflate bad behavior with criminal behavior when discussing ? culture which is highly problematic
Do you remember what you said? I didn't see you comment on it. I'm not calling you a liar. I'm just curious about your perspective.
Those chicks annoyed the ? out of me, but like I said, I don't think they were extremists. I don't think they were bad or many of their points were bad. But they are a good reason why I think feminism is dangerous and should be dismissed. Like the example I gave in this topic. When they got on there and said that black men are the number one cause of death for black women, that's an egregious lie. The only people other than them that I've seen say ? like that is members of White Supremacist groups. When they say it, it's almost harmless, because no one believes anything a KKK member says about blacks except other KKK members/white supremacists. However, if a black woman says it, people will take it as truth because they feel black women would have no reason to lie about that. Even Charlemagne bought into it. Now, if I say that on the whole, those two chicks might be examples of reasonable feminists, what does it say about feminism, in general, if even the reasonable ones are out their using dishonesty or speaking in ignorance in a way that can harm the community?
I posted some critiques in the breakfast club thread
feminism needs to continue because we still live in a world that largely undermines and devalues women....
though spreading misinformation can be dangerous, the actions of these two women are not representative of the reasonable, knowledgeable feminists that are out here doing work
they had their stats wrong.... but women are more likely to be killed by an intimate partner than men ...and a significant number of young women, particularly blk women, have died at the hands of an intimate partner of the opposite sex...enough to the point where it needs to addressed
I don't believe its a race thing ...and where I differ with the ladies, is that domestic violence is as one sided as some make it seem
-
Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Not a multicultural power structure.
A multicultural plebian class yea but they were all suborned to a more powerful unified class
That's not really true. Take the Roman empire for instance. Of course, the Romans controlled it, but people among those they conquered also had power and more importantly those cultures affected Rome and the Roman culture. It's pretty much the same with all great empires many of which were around a lot longer than modern empires/powers.Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »
i call out the extremist and the ignorance all the time when it's appropriate and or necessary
with the kdot situation, if you wade through the ? some of his critics raised some valid points... that is not me contradicting myself
extremists can have legitimate grievances
I've never seen you do that. I'm not saying you haven't. I haven't seen it. And I don't really see any valid points in this situation. At the end of the day, you guys are bashing this man for giving his perspective on what he finds attractive and what he'd like to see from women. Since when were men not allowed to have preferences and make those preferences known?
Why is it that black women feel like they can get on TV, the radio, basically anywhere they get a voice and criticize black men, but if a black man uses his voice to simply give his perspective, he deserves to be attacked?
i've never seen you do a lot of ? but i 'm not going to automatically presume that do or don't do something because it doesn't fit my narrative
you're going to have to just trust me
otherwise i really don't believe i've just been out here defending just any ol ? ....you disagree ....cool...
and here we go with the 'well he was stating his preferences'....'why is that so wrong"
again the issue isn't with him simply stating his preferences though. at least from what i gathered. as i stated before, looking like lira galore opposed to india arie comes with social benefits and privileges for women. instead of challenging that system of value, he is prioritizing his preferences in it
i don't how else to explain it
you think it's all dumb or whatever ...cool... let's agree to disagree ...if that makes you think less of me ...dope lol
and let me get this straight...
so when a blk woman uses a public platform to criticize blk man she isn't also "attacked", regardless of whether she makes valid points???? lol i've observed this ...it happens...and is there is nothing wrong with it- discussing our grievances and differences.... checking ppl when they need to checked...it can be a learning experience.....lol
not one black woman has lost her platform or even her job for criticizing black men. Can't say the same vice versa.
i need receipts bruh -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »
your knowledge of feminism is very limited, so all I can suggest is try reading angela davis...
they aren't necessarily the most moderate, bell hooks in particular...but if you care enough to get a better understanding of what you are criticizing start there
that said, it's hard growing up as a hip hop fan if you are somewhat conscious, especially if you are a somewhat conscious blk woman
especially when you get alittle older and start to reallly absorb what you are consuming
the industry caters to men...and they don't really push a lot of female artists
most the lyric are sexist at best, misgonistic at worst...even a lot of the underground
we can just stop listening to hip hop, but it's hard when that's what you grew up with ...and you can still relate and/or appreciate the other aspects of the music like the bravado and production
plus it's everywhere
then when we get someone who is somewhat conscious and pro blk like a kendrick we begin to expect or at least hope for that artist not do and say certain things or to just 'get it'...when they don't it's disappointing ....and they are expressing their disappointment
and can we stop pretending as though he is just stating what he likes and didn't have an agenda when he says he is tired of 'photo shop' and 'he wants to see stretch marks' ....he is clearly joining in on the recent "movement" to end the use of IG filters and other means to enhance a woman's beauty
dope idea on the surface, but again the execution is lacking
it's going to be hard for you to understand ...but at least I wish yall would emphasize and stop seeing every criticism as an "attack"
Maybe you need to go back and look at some of those comments, but they were not worded the way you just put things. Most of them were of the "Kendrick is is a fake. I won't be supporting him anymore" variety. How is that not an attack? If it was just a bunch of comments from women saying they were disappointed that he didn't really get how they felt, we would not be talking about this because that wouldn't be deemed a "controversy." The reason we're talking about this is because the general tone of the criticisms were hostile.
And I get what you're saying about Hip Hop. Sometimes I wonder how females can even be Hip Hop fans. I don't necessarily think it's as bad as you just portrayed it, but it is rarely flattering, I think we can agree on that.
I also think you're making assumptions that are unfounded. You're saying he's joining on some movement to end IG filters. That would make sense I guess if he said something about IG, but he didn't. He mentioned photoshop, and the backlash against the use of photoshop to create a false perception of beauty has been around since before IG even existed.
Ya'll really need to take what he said for what it is and stop adding to it. Then maybe you'd understand why many people (male and female) think you're being ridiculous with these criticisms.
On another note, I don't know why you keep trying to act like I know nothing about feminism just because I don't agree with it. I've never read Angela Davis, but I've heard her and others that are considered prominent speak. I'm not the expert on feminism that you are, but I'm not so ignorant to it and many of the concerns it raises that my viewpoint on it can just be dismissed. At the end of the day, we've been down this road. I've presented claims made by feminists that were false and showed they were false. What more do I need to know if at a fundamental level may of the things you guys are pushing nowadays are simply untrue?
just from reading ur posts it seems as though you only have a very basic understanding of feminism ... and then you ask what is the point of feminism as if the work is over
it also seems as though most of impressions of feminism comes from mainstream media sources and social media...I'd have a bad impression of feminism too if I believed every thing I read or seen on the internet were representative of most feminists
and i didn't really see too many commenters threatening to stop supporting his music
but yea when ppl are disappointed with the actions or words of someone, they sometimes will choose not to support that person, and usually don't have kind words for that person... not that that makes it right
and everything nowadays is deemed a "controversy." especially when a celebrity is involved. just more ? to get clicks and fill the 24 hr news cycle
This discussion has been closed.