Rapper Ranking Project: Rapper #5 - Eminem
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The Lonious Monk
Members Posts: 26,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
Same rules as before.
Previous Rappers
Nas: Adjusted Score - 42 Average Rating - 42.1
Pac: Adjusted Score - 37.5* Average Rating - 36.8
BIG: Adjusted Score - 37.5* Average Rating - 40.3
Jay: Adjusted Score - 36.5 Average Rating - 38.3
Eminem
Lyrics (5) - From a technical standpoint Em is basically flawless in this area. You might not like or care about what he's talking about, but he's able to deliver the message at hand clearly and often cleverly. He rarely spits anything wack, at least not from a purely lyrical standpoint.
Delivery (5 4) - He has one of the most dynamic flows ever and ride pretty much any beat. He's also makes good use of his voice and emotion to add strength or impact to what he's saying. Very few people can spit it the way he can.
Language (5) - He's demonstrated greatness in about area here. He has shown sick word play at times as well as complex rhyme schemes. He can carry a metaphor well and has a decent vocabulary. He's among the best here.
Storytelling (3.5) - He can tell a great story like most good rappers and due to his lyrical skill, his narratives are always strong. But his body of work in this area is lacking. He's somewhat creative, but at the same time some of those stories are silly bordering on corny.
Catalog (3 2) - He's got 8 solo albums and they are all wildly successful. They aren't that strong though. It's debatable if he has even one classic. Even if you give him one, you'd be hard pressed to say any of the other albums are great.
Subject Matter (3) - On one hand, he does touch quite a few subjects: critics, rivals, family, drugs, stupid white boy ? , etc... So one might think his subject matter is pretty diverse, but it really isn't because he absolutely runs each of these topics into a hole. How many songs does he have whining about his mom or Kim? And it's not like he attacks any of these topics from different angles to increase his depth when discussing them. It's like he says the same ? over and over again. I think he transitioned a little as time went on, but not enough to put him alongside exceptional or GOAT rappers in this area.
Creativity (4) - His songs tend to be outside of the box. I think part of that is due to the fact that he's a white boy, so of course he would stand out in an industry that is largely black. But that shouldn't be held against him. He has quite a few songs that he plays roles very well. And of course there is Stan, which was very creative and very good.
Collaboration (5) - He has worked with some of the greats, maybe not as many as some others, but he hasn't shied away from collaborating with other rappers that are considered strong. What really sets him apart is that he seems to ? the comp a lot. His combination of lyrics and delivery make it hard for most rappers to be on a track with him.
Impact (5) - This is an area where he does get a lot of help from being white. A big reason he's had such high sales is because he's white. He admits that himself. But at the end of the day, he was at one time, one of, if not the biggest names in rap. He basically made his city relevant, and changed HipHop lexicon with Stan. It's hard to argue against his impact even if you don't like it.
Overall Score - 38.5 36.5
It took me a while to do this one. I had to go back and listen to his catalog again. To me, he's one of the best pure MCs ever, but his music aside from some good singles here and there is trash. It's dope when he's going after critics and other rappers. Some of his introspective stuff is cool too, but the constant drug talk, whining about family members, and silly white boy ? gets annoying fast even over the course of one album. Still I tried to be objective, which is why I gave him a 3 in Catalog. Someone likes his albums even if I don't.
Next Rapper: Andre 3000
So the way this works is I'll open each discussion for each rapper by scoring that rapper in the categories listed below. I will provide reasoning for the scores and everyone can discuss. If you believe my score for an area needs to be adjusted, make the argument for it. If you get a lot of support (i.e., cosigns or posts in agreement), I'll adjust the score accordingly and keep it up til there is somewhat of a consensus. If there is no real consensus I'll just make a judgement call. I think anyone whose seen my posts on here will agree I at least try to be objective. I'll do the same here. Each area will be scored from 1 to 5 with 1 being Wack and 5 being Elite. The areas that will be scored are:
Lyrics - The strength of writing. How complex are the rapper's lyrics? How well does he or she deliver a message? Does he or she have a unique style of lacing words or is he or she like everyone else?
Delivery - Flow, voice, ability to ride a variety of beats. Does the rapper consistently sound good when rapping? Can the rapper ride a variety of beats? Can the rapper switch flows easily and regularly between songs or even on the same song?
Language - wordplay, vocabulary, use of figurative language (e.g. metaphors). How clever is the rapper with the way he or she makes a point? Are the rapper's lines slick or are they usually plain in nature?
Storytelling - Ability to deliver a cohesive narrative. Can the rapper tell a story that makes sense? Has the rapper displayed the capability regularly? Do the stories make sense and are they interesting?
Catalog - The rapper's body of work. How many classics does the rapper have? How many trash albums? On average what is the overall quality of the catalog?
Subject Matter - What the rapper raps about. Is the rapper capable of speaking on a variety of topics? Does the rapper regularly mix up different topics? Does the rapper sound out of place when addressing certain topics.
Creativity - What separates the rapper from the pack. Does the rapper have a history for bringing a unique sound? Does the rapper make unique songs or apply unusual concepts? Does the rapper address unique topics or address topics in a unique manner.
Collaboration - Presence when rapping with others. How often has the rapper outshine others on a track? How often has the rapper been owned? Does the rapper collab with other strong rappers and hold his or her own?
Impact - How much the rapper has influenced the game. Has the rapper sold a lot or made well received albums? Has the rapper's work or style changed the culture? Has the rapper's characteristics (e.g., style, flow, persona) been copied or imitated?
Lyrics - The strength of writing. How complex are the rapper's lyrics? How well does he or she deliver a message? Does he or she have a unique style of lacing words or is he or she like everyone else?
Delivery - Flow, voice, ability to ride a variety of beats. Does the rapper consistently sound good when rapping? Can the rapper ride a variety of beats? Can the rapper switch flows easily and regularly between songs or even on the same song?
Language - wordplay, vocabulary, use of figurative language (e.g. metaphors). How clever is the rapper with the way he or she makes a point? Are the rapper's lines slick or are they usually plain in nature?
Storytelling - Ability to deliver a cohesive narrative. Can the rapper tell a story that makes sense? Has the rapper displayed the capability regularly? Do the stories make sense and are they interesting?
Catalog - The rapper's body of work. How many classics does the rapper have? How many trash albums? On average what is the overall quality of the catalog?
Subject Matter - What the rapper raps about. Is the rapper capable of speaking on a variety of topics? Does the rapper regularly mix up different topics? Does the rapper sound out of place when addressing certain topics.
Creativity - What separates the rapper from the pack. Does the rapper have a history for bringing a unique sound? Does the rapper make unique songs or apply unusual concepts? Does the rapper address unique topics or address topics in a unique manner.
Collaboration - Presence when rapping with others. How often has the rapper outshine others on a track? How often has the rapper been owned? Does the rapper collab with other strong rappers and hold his or her own?
Impact - How much the rapper has influenced the game. Has the rapper sold a lot or made well received albums? Has the rapper's work or style changed the culture? Has the rapper's characteristics (e.g., style, flow, persona) been copied or imitated?
Previous Rappers
Nas: Adjusted Score - 42 Average Rating - 42.1
Pac: Adjusted Score - 37.5* Average Rating - 36.8
BIG: Adjusted Score - 37.5* Average Rating - 40.3
Jay: Adjusted Score - 36.5 Average Rating - 38.3
Eminem
Lyrics (5) - From a technical standpoint Em is basically flawless in this area. You might not like or care about what he's talking about, but he's able to deliver the message at hand clearly and often cleverly. He rarely spits anything wack, at least not from a purely lyrical standpoint.
Delivery (5 4) - He has one of the most dynamic flows ever and ride pretty much any beat. He's also makes good use of his voice and emotion to add strength or impact to what he's saying. Very few people can spit it the way he can.
Language (5) - He's demonstrated greatness in about area here. He has shown sick word play at times as well as complex rhyme schemes. He can carry a metaphor well and has a decent vocabulary. He's among the best here.
Storytelling (3.5) - He can tell a great story like most good rappers and due to his lyrical skill, his narratives are always strong. But his body of work in this area is lacking. He's somewhat creative, but at the same time some of those stories are silly bordering on corny.
Catalog (3 2) - He's got 8 solo albums and they are all wildly successful. They aren't that strong though. It's debatable if he has even one classic. Even if you give him one, you'd be hard pressed to say any of the other albums are great.
Subject Matter (3) - On one hand, he does touch quite a few subjects: critics, rivals, family, drugs, stupid white boy ? , etc... So one might think his subject matter is pretty diverse, but it really isn't because he absolutely runs each of these topics into a hole. How many songs does he have whining about his mom or Kim? And it's not like he attacks any of these topics from different angles to increase his depth when discussing them. It's like he says the same ? over and over again. I think he transitioned a little as time went on, but not enough to put him alongside exceptional or GOAT rappers in this area.
Creativity (4) - His songs tend to be outside of the box. I think part of that is due to the fact that he's a white boy, so of course he would stand out in an industry that is largely black. But that shouldn't be held against him. He has quite a few songs that he plays roles very well. And of course there is Stan, which was very creative and very good.
Collaboration (5) - He has worked with some of the greats, maybe not as many as some others, but he hasn't shied away from collaborating with other rappers that are considered strong. What really sets him apart is that he seems to ? the comp a lot. His combination of lyrics and delivery make it hard for most rappers to be on a track with him.
Impact (5) - This is an area where he does get a lot of help from being white. A big reason he's had such high sales is because he's white. He admits that himself. But at the end of the day, he was at one time, one of, if not the biggest names in rap. He basically made his city relevant, and changed HipHop lexicon with Stan. It's hard to argue against his impact even if you don't like it.
Overall Score - 38.5 36.5
It took me a while to do this one. I had to go back and listen to his catalog again. To me, he's one of the best pure MCs ever, but his music aside from some good singles here and there is trash. It's dope when he's going after critics and other rappers. Some of his introspective stuff is cool too, but the constant drug talk, whining about family members, and silly white boy ? gets annoying fast even over the course of one album. Still I tried to be objective, which is why I gave him a 3 in Catalog. Someone likes his albums even if I don't.
Next Rapper: Andre 3000
Comments
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Previous Rappers
Nas: Adjusted Score - 42 Average Rating - 42.1
Pac: Adjusted Score - 37.5 Average Rating - 36.8
BIG: Adjusted Score - 37.5 Average Rating - 40.3
Jay: Adjusted Score - 36.5 Average Rating - 38.3Overall Score - 38.5
So basically you're saying that Eminem is better than Pac and Jay Z? -
Previous Rappers
Nas: Adjusted Score - 42 Average Rating - 42.1
Pac: Adjusted Score - 37.5 Average Rating - 36.8
BIG: Adjusted Score - 37.5 Average Rating - 40.3
Jay: Adjusted Score - 36.5 Average Rating - 38.3Overall Score - 38.5
So basically you're saying that Eminem is better than Pac and Jay Z?
His score is higher. I personally don't like Eminem too much. If I was just going by my personal opinion, I'd put him at the bottom of the list so far. But I think from a technical standpoint he's damn near flawless. If you think I overrated him somewhere, then you know how it goes, post the argument. But also post your scores, cause I'm keeping track of those too by popular demand. -
Trash music
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Lyrics - 5
Delivery - 3 (Em didn't start rapping on beat until his 3rd album)
Language - 5
Storytelling - 3.5
Catalog - 3
Subject Matter - 1.5
Creativity - 4
Collaboration - 3
Impact - 5
Total Score : 33 -
Oh boy lets get into this
Lyrics(3)-Its all over the place with Em. Sometimes he raps about hating his mom other times he makes ? like ? . I'll give him a 3
Delivery(3)-Actually pretty good but I got to give him a 3 since he copied his flow from Masta Ace. Plus his new flow is really wack. It's just him rapping really fast and saying as many words as possible(kinda like Twisted Insane but not nearly as good).
Language(1)- Black people ain't ? with his music. We don't understand him.
Storytelling(4)- I'll give a 4 for this one on the strength of his songs under his Slim Shady alter ego. KIM is also a good story telling song even if its kinda ? up.
Catalog(2)-How yall hate on Insane Clown Posse but praise Em is beyond me? He was decent on his first 3 albums and has been hot garbage since. The MMLP is easily the most overrated rap album of all time.
Subject Matter(2)-When he's not making corny hit singles like my name is or Without me, He makes Corny emotional songs like not afraid. Only a handfull of his songs stand the test the time which is why he does not a classic album.
Creativity(1)- Since you can't give him a 0 I'll give him the absolute lowest score of 1. This dude is the Elvis Presley of hiphop, He copied Masta Ace's flow to an exact T on his first 3 albums, He got multiply personalities from Redman and the Slim Shady alter ego is just a 3rd rate version of Esham.
Collaboration(3)- For the most part decent. His recent collabos have been pretty subpar minus speedom with Tech N9ne. And yes Jigga warriors he killed Jay-z on Renegade
Impact(1)-He made a big splash when he first came out but years removed from the hype his music just doesn't do it anymore.
Overall Score:20
Once you get pass the fact he's white there really isn't much else to him. He was a mediocre rapper that got popular because he was signed by Dr.Dre. Nothing in his catalog stands the test of time and is worth listening to minus the SSLP(and I skip My name is I everytime I listen to it).
And BTW no he did not ? ICP's career. The Amazing Jeckel Brothers came out in 1999 and till this day it is still their highest selling album to day. -
Seriously listen to Esham or Necro. They both do the same thing Eminem does and better. They also don't have corny hit singles or lame skits on their albums either.
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genocidecutter wrote: »Oh boy lets get into this
Language(1)- Black people ain't ? with his music. We don't understand him.
I ain't picking on you genocide, but this is the reason I'm still doing the adjusted baseline score. Cause ya'll ? ain't even trying to rate according to the rules. lol -
I'll be back later -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »genocidecutter wrote: »Oh boy lets get into this
Language(1)- Black people ain't ? with his music. We don't understand him.
I ain't picking on you genocide, but this is the reason I'm still doing the adjusted baseline score. Cause ya'll ? ain't even trying to rate according to the rules. lol
I agree with Genocide. If Jay, Nas, Big and 2Pac got high 30s and low 40s, a 30 is a good score for Eminem.
Eminem should get a 2 for catalog. -
Lyrics: 3.5 He can rap, well at least earlier in his career. In his prime he was cold for the most part. Multis, flow and cadences were on point. Lyrics fell off the cliff post 05. Just rap fast and fools eat it up. But I'll give him props for early career. If it was just early em it would be higher but I balanced the grades of now and it weighted it down.
Delivery: 3. Delivery cool. Some people may like the over the top emphasis he does when he has a one liners. ? is od wack. He's better when he does it more subtle without the extra& screaming it.
Language: 5. He's lyrical miracle
Storytelling: 4.5 he can tell a vivid story. I don't dig the content but it's a strong point of his.
Catalog: 2. Here comes the good part. The albums are wack. Mmlp is good at best, sslp and Eminem show is solid at best. All the other ones are either mediocre or straight up triddash. 75% of the singles is ? billabong hat, jeans with the chain, J.C. Penney Sneaker music. Cheesy and garbage. Couple good singles but majority is cookie cutter garbage. Album cuts are hollow and forgettable.
Subject Matter: 1. Rebel teenage cac music is not the wave. Whatsoever.
Creativity 3.
Collaboration: 3 . Some good guest appearances in his time. A lot of forgetful ones too.
Impact: 2.5. His true impact is solid. Inspired some newer rappers from a skill standpoint. As far as body as work, its been mediocre. Balance it out
Score: 27.5 Dan Marjele of rap. Was an all star, really good in his prime nothing more nothing less. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »genocidecutter wrote: »Oh boy lets get into this
Language(1)- Black people ain't ? with his music. We don't understand him.
I ain't picking on you genocide, but this is the reason I'm still doing the adjusted baseline score. Cause ya'll ? ain't even trying to rate according to the rules. lol
I agree with Genocide. If Jay, Nas, Big and 2Pac got high 30s and low 40s, a 30 is a good score for Eminem.
Eminem should get a 2 for catalog.
A 2 was what I was thinking too. I thought I was being too hard. The problem is you're trying to score him according to what others got. That's specifically not what you should be doing. Your only consideration should be his merits in the categories. If you're short changing him just because you don't want him to be higher than your favorite, you're not being objective. -
Previous Rappers
Nas: Adjusted Score - 42 Average Rating - 42.1
Pac: Adjusted Score - 37.5 Average Rating - 36.8
BIG: Adjusted Score - 37.5 Average Rating - 40.3
Jay: Adjusted Score - 36.5 Average Rating - 38.3Overall Score - 38.5
So basically you're saying that Eminem is better than Pac and Jay Z?
Pac is debatable. -
Preach2Teach wrote: »Previous Rappers
Nas: Adjusted Score - 42 Average Rating - 42.1
Pac: Adjusted Score - 37.5 Average Rating - 36.8
BIG: Adjusted Score - 37.5 Average Rating - 40.3
Jay: Adjusted Score - 36.5 Average Rating - 38.3Overall Score - 38.5
So basically you're saying that Eminem is better than Pac and Jay Z?
Pac is debatable.
GTFOHWTBS -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »genocidecutter wrote: »Oh boy lets get into this
Language(1)- Black people ain't ? with his music. We don't understand him.
I ain't picking on you genocide, but this is the reason I'm still doing the adjusted baseline score. Cause ya'll ? ain't even trying to rate according to the rules. lol
I agree with Genocide. If Jay, Nas, Big and 2Pac got high 30s and low 40s, a 30 is a good score for Eminem.
Eminem should get a 2 for catalog.
A 2 was what I was thinking too. I thought I was being too hard. The problem is you're trying to score him according to what others got. That's specifically not what you should be doing. Your only consideration should be his merits in the categories. If you're short changing him just because you don't want him to be higher than your favorite, you're not being objective.
Has nothing to do with comparisons to the greats. He has three albums that can somewhat withstand the test of time out of 7. There are lesser rappers with better catalogs.
Jeezy, Ross and Kanye have better catalogs and that's not even debatable. Hell, if you count Section 80, even Kendrick has already surpassed Em's catalog. The ? is flimsy as ? for a "GOAT". -
I'd pull his delivery down a notch. Post Encore, his voice is very high-pitched and whiny, lots of yelling and unnecessary fast rapping. Nowhere near as smooth as his old work.
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I actually think monks assessment is 100% accurate this time around.and I'm not an Eminem fan at all
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Where I would dispute Monk's assessment:
Storytelling: 5.
Eminem's storytelling ability is matched by very few and the only MC's I can think of off the top of my head in his league would be Ghostface, Slick Rick, and MC Lyte.
Subject Matter: 2.
Early Eminem had more in the way of subject matter. I'm talking Infinite/SSEP/SSLP Eminem. After that he got all angsty. You could pigeonhole an entire album with the following:
Songs about or at least a verse about his daughter
Mommy issues
Being fatherless
I hate/love Kim.
Homelife was/is terrible
Relationship issues
I hate being a celbrity
and you'd have about 95% of the album. ? like "Rap ? ", "Stan", "Mosh" is few and far between and even when he does it he sometimes manages to slip one or more of the aforementioned subjects into those songs.
aside from that, Monk is pretty much spot on. -
Lyrics - 3.5 - On a technical level, Em is untouchable but a lot of times I feel like hes saying anything just to complete a complex rhyme scheme. There are a lot of rappity rappers and Em is top tier, but sometimes I feel like he sacrifices his message or other parts of lyricism just to have some crazy rhymes. To me lyrics are a equal combo of what you are saying and how you are saying it, and a lot of times Em isnt saying ? .
Delivery - 4 - This is so tough for me. On certain beats, Em has one of the best flows other, but on other beats he has one of the most annoying voices. There are times when his voice on certain beats kills the whole song for me. But when his flow is on its so good that I cant give him less than a 4.
Language - 5 - Em has an undeniable way words. Not much to explain here.
Catalog - 3 - This is very tough. On one hand, most rappers dont have a single good album, lets alone 2-3 really good ones. On the other hand, most rappers that Eminem is compared to dont have 5 albums that are completely garbage. I battled between 2.5 and 3, but ultimately feel like 3 really good albums should get him atleast 3.
Storytelling - 4- I went with story telling ability here. He doesnt have many stories but when he does tell a story its usually good.
Creativity - 3 - While he has some creative songs, he also has been using the same exact formula for years. An Em album consists of a bunch of lyrical songs, a ? my life song, a ? my mom song, an I love my daughter song, a few psuedo ? white humor pop song, and recently his drugs are cool songs have been replaced with uplifting songs where he yells a positivr message. Ive legit just wrote the formula for every single Em album, and thats why he gets a 3.
Subject Matter - 3 - On one hand, his subject matter is different from the average rapper. On the other hand, its been the same handful of subjects for damn near 20 years
Collaboration - 5 - Em can rap his ass off and in collabs he either kills rappers or ties them.
Impact - 5 - Objectively, love him or hate him, you cant deny his impact on pop culture. With that said, I take it a step further, you cant listen to some of the best young new rappers and not hear eminems influence of them. With that said, I think he earns a 5.
Overall score - 35.5
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ban genocide
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Big Pun has a better catalog than Eminem
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Self-admitting Em haters always enter his threads :joy: you all give the word "hating" it's definition.
Dope threads @ TS -
Like Water wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »genocidecutter wrote: »Oh boy lets get into this
Language(1)- Black people ain't ? with his music. We don't understand him.
I ain't picking on you genocide, but this is the reason I'm still doing the adjusted baseline score. Cause ya'll ? ain't even trying to rate according to the rules. lol
I agree with Genocide. If Jay, Nas, Big and 2Pac got high 30s and low 40s, a 30 is a good score for Eminem.
Eminem should get a 2 for catalog.
A 2 was what I was thinking too. I thought I was being too hard. The problem is you're trying to score him according to what others got. That's specifically not what you should be doing. Your only consideration should be his merits in the categories. If you're short changing him just because you don't want him to be higher than your favorite, you're not being objective.
Has nothing to do with comparisons to the greats. He has three albums that can somewhat withstand the test of time out of 7. There are lesser rappers with better catalogs.
Jeezy, Ross and Kanye have better catalogs and that's not even debatable. Hell, if you count Section 80, even Kendrick has already surpassed Em's catalog. The ? is flimsy as ? for a "GOAT".
I was specifically talking to @5 Grand because he was basing what was fair for Em on the other scores. That's not how this works. You can argue that any of his scores should be changed, but you have to make your argument based on his own merits or lack thereof not on how his score compares to another rapper's score.
On another note, I guess I'll lower Catalog a point. A lot of people seem to think he doesn't deserve a 5 in Lyrics. Really? We're not talking about what he raps about in that category. We're only talking about how well he is able to deliver whatever message he's speaking on. Em is pretty damn good at that. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »Like Water wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »genocidecutter wrote: »Oh boy lets get into this
Language(1)- Black people ain't ? with his music. We don't understand him.
I ain't picking on you genocide, but this is the reason I'm still doing the adjusted baseline score. Cause ya'll ? ain't even trying to rate according to the rules. lol
I agree with Genocide. If Jay, Nas, Big and 2Pac got high 30s and low 40s, a 30 is a good score for Eminem.
Eminem should get a 2 for catalog.
A 2 was what I was thinking too. I thought I was being too hard. The problem is you're trying to score him according to what others got. That's specifically not what you should be doing. Your only consideration should be his merits in the categories. If you're short changing him just because you don't want him to be higher than your favorite, you're not being objective.
Has nothing to do with comparisons to the greats. He has three albums that can somewhat withstand the test of time out of 7. There are lesser rappers with better catalogs.
Jeezy, Ross and Kanye have better catalogs and that's not even debatable. Hell, if you count Section 80, even Kendrick has already surpassed Em's catalog. The ? is flimsy as ? for a "GOAT".
I was specifically talking to @5 Grand because he was basing what was fair for Em on the other scores. That's not how this works. You can argue that any of his scores should be changed, but you have to make your argument based on his own merits or lack thereof not on how his score compares to another rapper's score.
On another note, I guess I'll lower Catalog a point. A lot of people seem to think he doesn't deserve a 5 in Lyrics. Really? We're not talking about what he raps about in that category. We're only talking about how well he is able to deliver whatever message he's speaking on. Em is pretty damn good at that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I53vWm8dJGk
If Rakim say the man is nice with it, he's nice with it. -
Shizlansky wrote: »Trash music
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Now wait so you gave Jay a 34.5 out the gate but Em a 38.5 out the gate??? Smmfh
