Rapper Ranking Project: Rapper #5 - Eminem

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Comments

  • Ear2DaSt
    Ear2DaSt Members Posts: 10,480 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • The Lonious Monk
    The Lonious Monk Members Posts: 26,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    GetoBoy wrote: »
    Now wait so you gave Jay a 34.5 out the gate but Em a 38.5 out the gate??? Smmfh

    Again, I'm not measuring them against each other like you guys. I was just scoring based on the categories and yes I rated Em higher in some categories than Jay.
  • GetoBoy
    GetoBoy Members Posts: 3,879 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2017
    Lyrics (5) - One of the best lyricist gotta give him that much no explanation needed

    Delivery (4) - All them funny voices and yelling take away and bring his delivery down a notch

    Language (4.5) - Only reason it's not a 5 is becuz he does spend a lot of his raps really not saying much but it sounds like he saying alot with his words

    Story telling (3) - Outside of Stan can't really think of much story telling he has done

    Catalog (3.5) - This rating is SOLELY off his first 3 albums...it would be a 4 or higher if the fall off on the actual quality of music wasn't so big

    Subject Matter (4) - He touched on alot of subjects in his career especially personal ones they just don't all appeal to us but I'm tryna look outside of just myself here

    Creativity (4) - His songs might not be the most creative but he is very creative in what he be saying in the songs as far as his bars

    Collaboration (4.5) - Can't think of too many memorable Em collabs I mean there's always Renegade but Em isn't the most collaborating rapper and even then it's very few times he just completely outshines anybody but I'll give him a 4.5 becuz I can't think of times he's been completely outshined either but his resume isn't long enough for a 5

    Impact (4) - Sorry Em hasn't had this great impact on hip hop since most of his fans aren't hip hop fans they're just Em fans doesn't do much in the way of business and Shady records outside of signing 50 ain't really impacted hip hop that greatly either

    Total score (36.5) - With these categories given no way should his total be above any of the other artists given out the gate this is as objective a Em score you gonna get becuz Jay 34.5 but Em 38.5 is just crazy especially when Pac and BIG have lower scores too you highly overrating Em
  • The Lonious Monk
    The Lonious Monk Members Posts: 26,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    GetoBoy wrote: »
    Lyrics (5) - One of the best lyricist gotta give him that much no explanation needed

    Delivery (4) - All them funny voices and yelling take away and bring his delivery down a notch

    Language (4.5) - Only reason it's not a 5 is becuz he does spend a lot of his raps really not saying much but it sounds like he saying alot with his words

    Story telling (3) - Outside of Stan can't really think of much story telling he has done

    Catalog (3.5) - This rating is SOLELY off his first 3 albums...it would be a 4 or higher if the fall off on the actual quality of music wasn't so big

    Subject Matter (4) - He touched on alot of subjects in his career especially personal ones they just don't all appeal to us but I'm tryna look outside of just myself here

    Creativity (4) - His songs might not be the most creative but he is very creative in what he be saying in the songs as far as his bars

    Collaboration (4.5) - Can't think of too many memorable Em collabs I mean there's always Renegade but Em isn't the most collaborating rapper and even then it's very few times he just completely outshines anybody but I'll give him a 4.5 becuz I can't think of times he's been completely outshined either but his resume isn't long enough for a 5

    Impact (4) - Sorry Em hasn't had this great impact on hip hop since most of his fans aren't hip hop fans they're just Em fans doesn't do much in the way of business and Shady records outside of signing 50 ain't really impacted hip hop that greatly either

    Total score (36.5) - With these categories given no way should his total be above any of the other artists given out the gate this is as objective a Em score you gonna get becuz Jay 34.5 but Em 38.5 is just crazy especially when Pac and BIG have lower scores too you highly overrating Em

    lol Your score is fine, but you still don't seem to know what objective means. You can't claim you're being objective and then admit that your scores are influenced by your bias towards other artists.
  • GetoBoy
    GetoBoy Members Posts: 3,879 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2017
    GetoBoy wrote: »
    Lyrics (5) - One of the best lyricist gotta give him that much no explanation needed

    Delivery (4) - All them funny voices and yelling take away and bring his delivery down a notch

    Language (4.5) - Only reason it's not a 5 is becuz he does spend a lot of his raps really not saying much but it sounds like he saying alot with his words

    Story telling (3) - Outside of Stan can't really think of much story telling he has done

    Catalog (3.5) - This rating is SOLELY off his first 3 albums...it would be a 4 or higher if the fall off on the actual quality of music wasn't so big

    Subject Matter (4) - He touched on alot of subjects in his career especially personal ones they just don't all appeal to us but I'm tryna look outside of just myself here

    Creativity (4) - His songs might not be the most creative but he is very creative in what he be saying in the songs as far as his bars

    Collaboration (4.5) - Can't think of too many memorable Em collabs I mean there's always Renegade but Em isn't the most collaborating rapper and even then it's very few times he just completely outshines anybody but I'll give him a 4.5 becuz I can't think of times he's been completely outshined either but his resume isn't long enough for a 5

    Impact (4) - Sorry Em hasn't had this great impact on hip hop since most of his fans aren't hip hop fans they're just Em fans doesn't do much in the way of business and Shady records outside of signing 50 ain't really impacted hip hop that greatly either

    Total score (36.5) - With these categories given no way should his total be above any of the other artists given out the gate this is as objective a Em score you gonna get becuz Jay 34.5 but Em 38.5 is just crazy especially when Pac and BIG have lower scores too you highly overrating Em

    lol Your score is fine, but you still don't seem to know what objective means. You can't claim you're being objective and then admit that your scores are influenced by your bias towards other artists.

    Huh?? It's not based on other artist it's based on his work I'm saying no "objective" person could look at these categories and out the gate say Jay is 34.5 and Em is 38.5 some where in there is a bias... Or that Pac is a 37.5 after adjustments but Em is 38 5 this sounds like a Em biased rating lmao
  • The Lonious Monk
    The Lonious Monk Members Posts: 26,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    GetoBoy wrote: »
    GetoBoy wrote: »
    Lyrics (5) - One of the best lyricist gotta give him that much no explanation needed

    Delivery (4) - All them funny voices and yelling take away and bring his delivery down a notch

    Language (4.5) - Only reason it's not a 5 is becuz he does spend a lot of his raps really not saying much but it sounds like he saying alot with his words

    Story telling (3) - Outside of Stan can't really think of much story telling he has done

    Catalog (3.5) - This rating is SOLELY off his first 3 albums...it would be a 4 or higher if the fall off on the actual quality of music wasn't so big

    Subject Matter (4) - He touched on alot of subjects in his career especially personal ones they just don't all appeal to us but I'm tryna look outside of just myself here

    Creativity (4) - His songs might not be the most creative but he is very creative in what he be saying in the songs as far as his bars

    Collaboration (4.5) - Can't think of too many memorable Em collabs I mean there's always Renegade but Em isn't the most collaborating rapper and even then it's very few times he just completely outshines anybody but I'll give him a 4.5 becuz I can't think of times he's been completely outshined either but his resume isn't long enough for a 5

    Impact (4) - Sorry Em hasn't had this great impact on hip hop since most of his fans aren't hip hop fans they're just Em fans doesn't do much in the way of business and Shady records outside of signing 50 ain't really impacted hip hop that greatly either

    Total score (36.5) - With these categories given no way should his total be above any of the other artists given out the gate this is as objective a Em score you gonna get becuz Jay 34.5 but Em 38.5 is just crazy especially when Pac and BIG have lower scores too you highly overrating Em

    lol Your score is fine, but you still don't seem to know what objective means. You can't claim you're being objective and then admit that your scores are influenced by your bias towards other artists.

    Huh?? It's not based on other artist it's based on his work I'm saying no "objective" person could look at these categories and out the gate say Jay is 34.5 and Em is 38.5 some where in there is a bias... Or that Pac is a 37.5 after adjustments but Em is 38 5 lmao

    I'm not talking about your score. You did it again. Why could an objective person not give Em higher scores than Jay? Only a person biased towards Jay would even make that comment. I scored Jay based on how well I thought he measured up in the categories the same way I did Em. Again, if I was being subjective and just judging things by my opinion, Jay would have had the higher score because I'd much rather listen to a Jay album than an Em album. About the only thing I like more with Em than Jay is his delivery.
  • The Lonious Monk
    The Lonious Monk Members Posts: 26,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Also, nobody is really making any arguments for why the score is too high. You aren't explaining why and where I overrated him. You're just claiming I overrated him and most are you are falling back on the fact that his score is higher than others. That's clearly subjective in nature because you're letting your bias for the other rappers influence how you think he should be scored.
  • GetoBoy
    GetoBoy Members Posts: 3,879 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2017
    GetoBoy wrote: »
    GetoBoy wrote: »
    Lyrics (5) - One of the best lyricist gotta give him that much no explanation needed

    Delivery (4) - All them funny voices and yelling take away and bring his delivery down a notch

    Language (4.5) - Only reason it's not a 5 is becuz he does spend a lot of his raps really not saying much but it sounds like he saying alot with his words

    Story telling (3) - Outside of Stan can't really think of much story telling he has done

    Catalog (3.5) - This rating is SOLELY off his first 3 albums...it would be a 4 or higher if the fall off on the actual quality of music wasn't so big

    Subject Matter (4) - He touched on alot of subjects in his career especially personal ones they just don't all appeal to us but I'm tryna look outside of just myself here

    Creativity (4) - His songs might not be the most creative but he is very creative in what he be saying in the songs as far as his bars

    Collaboration (4.5) - Can't think of too many memorable Em collabs I mean there's always Renegade but Em isn't the most collaborating rapper and even then it's very few times he just completely outshines anybody but I'll give him a 4.5 becuz I can't think of times he's been completely outshined either but his resume isn't long enough for a 5

    Impact (4) - Sorry Em hasn't had this great impact on hip hop since most of his fans aren't hip hop fans they're just Em fans doesn't do much in the way of business and Shady records outside of signing 50 ain't really impacted hip hop that greatly either

    Total score (36.5) - With these categories given no way should his total be above any of the other artists given out the gate this is as objective a Em score you gonna get becuz Jay 34.5 but Em 38.5 is just crazy especially when Pac and BIG have lower scores too you highly overrating Em

    lol Your score is fine, but you still don't seem to know what objective means. You can't claim you're being objective and then admit that your scores are influenced by your bias towards other artists.

    Huh?? It's not based on other artist it's based on his work I'm saying no "objective" person could look at these categories and out the gate say Jay is 34.5 and Em is 38.5 some where in there is a bias... Or that Pac is a 37.5 after adjustments but Em is 38 5 lmao

    I'm not talking about your score. You did it again. Why could an objective person not give Em higher scores than Jay? Only a person biased towards Jay would even make that comment. I scored Jay based on how well I thought he measured up in the categories the same way I did Em. Again, if I was being subjective and just judging things by my opinion, Jay would have had the higher score because I'd much rather listen to a Jay album than an Em album. About the only thing I like more with Em than Jay is his delivery.

    Question are you a Em fan??? I ask that becuz again I'm saying it's not about the person it's about the work and the gap between them you gave you basically have Em second to only Nas when the work don't say that so I call bias and overrating with this one becuz there's no way you can objectivity listen to all of Em Nas Jay Pac and Big works and come away thinking Em is second that screams of bias that's why I'm glad you included the avg score becuz Em being that high is crazy nothing about his work in those categories warrants that score to anybody without a bias towards Em
  • The Lonious Monk
    The Lonious Monk Members Posts: 26,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    GetoBoy wrote: »
    GetoBoy wrote: »
    GetoBoy wrote: »
    Lyrics (5) - One of the best lyricist gotta give him that much no explanation needed

    Delivery (4) - All them funny voices and yelling take away and bring his delivery down a notch

    Language (4.5) - Only reason it's not a 5 is becuz he does spend a lot of his raps really not saying much but it sounds like he saying alot with his words

    Story telling (3) - Outside of Stan can't really think of much story telling he has done

    Catalog (3.5) - This rating is SOLELY off his first 3 albums...it would be a 4 or higher if the fall off on the actual quality of music wasn't so big

    Subject Matter (4) - He touched on alot of subjects in his career especially personal ones they just don't all appeal to us but I'm tryna look outside of just myself here

    Creativity (4) - His songs might not be the most creative but he is very creative in what he be saying in the songs as far as his bars

    Collaboration (4.5) - Can't think of too many memorable Em collabs I mean there's always Renegade but Em isn't the most collaborating rapper and even then it's very few times he just completely outshines anybody but I'll give him a 4.5 becuz I can't think of times he's been completely outshined either but his resume isn't long enough for a 5

    Impact (4) - Sorry Em hasn't had this great impact on hip hop since most of his fans aren't hip hop fans they're just Em fans doesn't do much in the way of business and Shady records outside of signing 50 ain't really impacted hip hop that greatly either

    Total score (36.5) - With these categories given no way should his total be above any of the other artists given out the gate this is as objective a Em score you gonna get becuz Jay 34.5 but Em 38.5 is just crazy especially when Pac and BIG have lower scores too you highly overrating Em

    lol Your score is fine, but you still don't seem to know what objective means. You can't claim you're being objective and then admit that your scores are influenced by your bias towards other artists.

    Huh?? It's not based on other artist it's based on his work I'm saying no "objective" person could look at these categories and out the gate say Jay is 34.5 and Em is 38.5 some where in there is a bias... Or that Pac is a 37.5 after adjustments but Em is 38 5 lmao

    I'm not talking about your score. You did it again. Why could an objective person not give Em higher scores than Jay? Only a person biased towards Jay would even make that comment. I scored Jay based on how well I thought he measured up in the categories the same way I did Em. Again, if I was being subjective and just judging things by my opinion, Jay would have had the higher score because I'd much rather listen to a Jay album than an Em album. About the only thing I like more with Em than Jay is his delivery.

    Question are you a Em fan??? I ask that becuz again I'm saying it's not about the person it's about the work and the gap between them you gave you basically have second to only Nas when the work don't say that so I call bias and overrating with this one

    No, I don't own anything from Em. I had to go to Spotify to listen to his catalog again. When I come up with the scores, I give them based on my honest assessment of each category. For Lyrics and Language, I gave both Jay and Em 5s because they have clearly displayed work at a very high level in both. I scored Em higher for Delivery because to me, he has one of the best flows ever (when he is at his best). I don't feel that Jay's is quite on that level, so he scored lower. There's no bias there. It's just an honest assessment.
  • GetoBoy
    GetoBoy Members Posts: 3,879 ✭✭✭✭✭
    GetoBoy wrote: »
    GetoBoy wrote: »
    GetoBoy wrote: »
    Lyrics (5) - One of the best lyricist gotta give him that much no explanation needed

    Delivery (4) - All them funny voices and yelling take away and bring his delivery down a notch

    Language (4.5) - Only reason it's not a 5 is becuz he does spend a lot of his raps really not saying much but it sounds like he saying alot with his words

    Story telling (3) - Outside of Stan can't really think of much story telling he has done

    Catalog (3.5) - This rating is SOLELY off his first 3 albums...it would be a 4 or higher if the fall off on the actual quality of music wasn't so big

    Subject Matter (4) - He touched on alot of subjects in his career especially personal ones they just don't all appeal to us but I'm tryna look outside of just myself here

    Creativity (4) - His songs might not be the most creative but he is very creative in what he be saying in the songs as far as his bars

    Collaboration (4.5) - Can't think of too many memorable Em collabs I mean there's always Renegade but Em isn't the most collaborating rapper and even then it's very few times he just completely outshines anybody but I'll give him a 4.5 becuz I can't think of times he's been completely outshined either but his resume isn't long enough for a 5

    Impact (4) - Sorry Em hasn't had this great impact on hip hop since most of his fans aren't hip hop fans they're just Em fans doesn't do much in the way of business and Shady records outside of signing 50 ain't really impacted hip hop that greatly either

    Total score (36.5) - With these categories given no way should his total be above any of the other artists given out the gate this is as objective a Em score you gonna get becuz Jay 34.5 but Em 38.5 is just crazy especially when Pac and BIG have lower scores too you highly overrating Em

    lol Your score is fine, but you still don't seem to know what objective means. You can't claim you're being objective and then admit that your scores are influenced by your bias towards other artists.

    Huh?? It's not based on other artist it's based on his work I'm saying no "objective" person could look at these categories and out the gate say Jay is 34.5 and Em is 38.5 some where in there is a bias... Or that Pac is a 37.5 after adjustments but Em is 38 5 lmao

    I'm not talking about your score. You did it again. Why could an objective person not give Em higher scores than Jay? Only a person biased towards Jay would even make that comment. I scored Jay based on how well I thought he measured up in the categories the same way I did Em. Again, if I was being subjective and just judging things by my opinion, Jay would have had the higher score because I'd much rather listen to a Jay album than an Em album. About the only thing I like more with Em than Jay is his delivery.

    Question are you a Em fan??? I ask that becuz again I'm saying it's not about the person it's about the work and the gap between them you gave you basically have second to only Nas when the work don't say that so I call bias and overrating with this one

    No, I don't own anything from Em. I had to go to Spotify to listen to his catalog again. When I come up with the scores, I give them based on my honest assessment of each category. For Lyrics and Language, I gave both Jay and Em 5s because they have clearly displayed work at a very high level in both. I scored Em higher for Delivery because to me, he has one of the best flows ever (when he is at his best). I don't feel that Jay's is quite on that level, so he scored lower. There's no bias there. It's just an honest assessment.

    Well let be the first to tell you that you vastly overrated Em with this one either that or you underrated other rappers becuz Em is not better than those rappers to the point where you gotta adjust their scores just to get close to what you gave Em not pass him just get close to him and that has nothing to do with the names and everything to do with the music....but again that's why I'm glad the avg score is now included
  • CeLLaR-DooR
    CeLLaR-DooR Members Posts: 18,880 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lyrics - 3
    Wudda been a four or five in 01. He been wack for way longer than he was dope.

    Delivery - 5

    Language - 3
    He fills lines with too much rubbish. 'muthafuckin'' all the time. He wouldn't need to do that if he were better. Least he's out of the phase where he'd use random women names to make the line right.

    Storytelling - 3
    Would have been lower if not for Stan, one of hip hop's GOAT songs

    Catalog - 3* (bumped from 2.5)
    SSLP and MMLP are both 4 stars. TES 3.5 but everything else after been wack, sometimes unlistenable

    Subject matter - 3
    He still talkin' about rapin' hoes smh 3 is even too high but I'm a fair dude

    Creativity - 3
    Again, mostly carried by Stan.

    Collaboration - 4
    Wudda given a five a few years ago. Not often he gets merked and usually does the killin'

    Impact - 5
    Helped push rap into the mainstream. Nowhere near the first white rapper but all these cacs look up to him.

    32
  • The Lonious Monk
    The Lonious Monk Members Posts: 26,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    GetoBoy wrote: »

    Well let be the first to tell you that you vastly overrated Em with this one either that or you underrated other rappers becuz Em is not better than those rappers to the point where you gotta adjust their scores just to get close to what you gave Em not pass him just get close to him and that has nothing to do with the names and everything to do with the music....but again that's why I'm glad the avg score is now included

    Again, you're trying to make an argument against the scoring by comparing scores between rappers. That's not how you're supposed to come up with your scores. I scored Em based on his merits. His score is high because he has a lot of 5s not because I was looking at him and thought he was better than the other rappers. If you think I overrated him, fine, but give me reasons for why he doesn't deserve the scores that he has.

    Can you give me examples of unclear or meaningless lyrics that establish a pattern showing he's not that strong in the Lyrics category?

    Can you dispute the fact that he does have a dynamic flow and is able to ride pretty much any beat and at his best delivers better than the majority of rappers out there?

    Do you deny that he does have a history of using impressive wordplay, rhyme schemes, and other rap bells and whistles?

    If people can give legitimate reasons for why his scores should be lowered, I'll lower them and he'll be below the others. But you answer can't just be "He got higher than Jay. He shouldn't be higher than Jay, so his scores should be lower." Like I said, I don't particularly care for Eminem, but it seems some of ya'll are just hating. If my scores are so wildly overrated, you should be able to come up with a myriad of reasons for score changes.
  • AZTG
    AZTG Members Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2017
    I dont get how you cant compare rappers though.

    I mean you did with Nas and Jay, you couldnt give Nas a 5 for impact cause Jay was a 5.

    All these rappers are being rated with the same categories.

    And within these categories, if Nas gets a 5 for catalog, and Jay gets a 4, no way can Em get more than 2.5.

    The same rules that had certain rappers get a 5 cant allow lesser rappers to get a 5 in those categories.

    Cant just weight categories different for each rapper and say you cant compare them.
  • Stew
    Stew Members, Moderators, Writer Posts: 52,234 Regulator
  • GetoBoy
    GetoBoy Members Posts: 3,879 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AZTG wrote: »
    I dont get how you cant compare rappers though.

    I mean you did with Nas and Jay, you couldnt give Nas a 5 for impact cause Jay was a 5.

    All these rappers are being ratwd with the same categories.

    And withing these categories, if Nas gets a 5 for catalog, and Jay gets a 4, no way can Em get more than 2.5.

    The same rules that had certain rappers get a 5 cant allow lesser rappers to get a 5 in those categories.

    Cant just weight categories different for each rapper and say you cant compare them.

    Exactly at sum point there will be comparisons as examples for how high or low you rate another rapper..... I mean hell if you go into other threads comparisons are made all through those but now you can't compare to get ratings smh
  • The Lonious Monk
    The Lonious Monk Members Posts: 26,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AZTG wrote: »
    I dont get how you cant compare rappers though.

    I mean you did with Nas and Jay, you couldnt give Nas a 5 for impact cause Jay was a 5.

    All these rappers are being ratwd with the same categories.

    And withing these categories, if Nas gets a 5 for catalog, and Jay gets a 4, no way can Em get more than 2.5.

    The same rules that had certain rappers get a 5 cant allow lesser rappers to get a 5 in those categories.

    Cant just weight categories different for each rapper and say you cant compare them.

    I didn't give Nas a 5 in Impact because I don't believe he has had the kinda long term industry changing impact that some other big named rappers have had. I didn't not give Nas a 5 specifically because I wanted him to be lower than Jay. That's what people are suggesting here. You should be able to evaluate each character based on what the rapper brings or doesn't bring.

    People have come to a consensus on the Catalog, so I'll lower that to 2.

    Not all 5s are considered equal, but all 5s are at the top of the mountain as far as rappers in general. I might think Nas is a better lyricist than Jay, but Jay is still a 5. If you believe that Eminem is lesser in one of those categories to the point where he shouldn't even be considered a 5, that's fine, make the argument.

    I'm not weighting categories different. Every area I gave Eminem a 5 in is a category where I believe he's among the best ever. Again, it's ok for anyone to disagree, but people have to provide arguments against Eminem's merits not just says he doesn't deserve to be as high as Jay because that's a purely subjective stance.
  • The Lonious Monk
    The Lonious Monk Members Posts: 26,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2017
    GetoBoy wrote: »
    AZTG wrote: »
    I dont get how you cant compare rappers though.

    I mean you did with Nas and Jay, you couldnt give Nas a 5 for impact cause Jay was a 5.

    All these rappers are being ratwd with the same categories.

    And withing these categories, if Nas gets a 5 for catalog, and Jay gets a 4, no way can Em get more than 2.5.

    The same rules that had certain rappers get a 5 cant allow lesser rappers to get a 5 in those categories.

    Cant just weight categories different for each rapper and say you cant compare them.

    Exactly at sum point there will be comparisons as examples for how high or low you rate another rapper..... I mean hell if you go into other threads comparisons are made all through those but now you can't compare to get ratings smh

    It's ok for people to compare scores for discussion purposes, but you shouldn't need to compare the rappers to generate the scores. For example, for Catalog. You don't have to compare Eminem's catalog to Nas' to come up with a score. You can just listen to Eminem's catalog and decide what it deserves.
  • GetoBoy
    GetoBoy Members Posts: 3,879 ✭✭✭✭✭
    GetoBoy wrote: »

    Well let be the first to tell you that you vastly overrated Em with this one either that or you underrated other rappers becuz Em is not better than those rappers to the point where you gotta adjust their scores just to get close to what you gave Em not pass him just get close to him and that has nothing to do with the names and everything to do with the music....but again that's why I'm glad the avg score is now included

    Again, you're trying to make an argument against the scoring by comparing scores between rappers. That's not how you're supposed to come up with your scores. I scored Em based on his merits. His score is high because he has a lot of 5s not because I was looking at him and thought he was better than the other rappers. If you think I overrated him, fine, but give me reasons for why he doesn't deserve the scores that he has.

    Can you give me examples of unclear or meaningless lyrics that establish a pattern showing he's not that strong in the Lyrics category?

    Can you dispute the fact that he does have a dynamic flow and is able to ride pretty much any beat and at his best delivers better than the majority of rappers out there?

    Do you deny that he does have a history of using impressive wordplay, rhyme schemes, and other rap bells and whistles?

    If people can give legitimate reasons for why his scores should be lowered, I'll lower them and he'll be below the others. But you answer can't just be "He got higher than Jay. He shouldn't be higher than Jay, so his scores should be lower." Like I said, I don't particularly care for Eminem, but it seems some of ya'll are just hating. If my scores are so wildly overrated, you should be able to come up with a myriad of reasons for score changes.

    My ? look at my break down I did all that that's what I'm saying I didn't JUST say his score can't be higher becuz of another rapper I gave break downs on why his scores should be lower or why I didn't make them higher.... Again ppl aren't hating you just did a vast overrating of him which is funny becuz when ppl rate another rapper higher then you then they overrating or rating as a stan but now you vastly overrated a rapper and ppl who rate lower than you are hating this is the problem I had with the one person control the ratings set up from jump which again glad you changed that becuz this rating is ridiculous compared to how you rated others it's like you were easier on Em
  • The Lonious Monk
    The Lonious Monk Members Posts: 26,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    GetoBoy wrote: »
    GetoBoy wrote: »

    Well let be the first to tell you that you vastly overrated Em with this one either that or you underrated other rappers becuz Em is not better than those rappers to the point where you gotta adjust their scores just to get close to what you gave Em not pass him just get close to him and that has nothing to do with the names and everything to do with the music....but again that's why I'm glad the avg score is now included

    Again, you're trying to make an argument against the scoring by comparing scores between rappers. That's not how you're supposed to come up with your scores. I scored Em based on his merits. His score is high because he has a lot of 5s not because I was looking at him and thought he was better than the other rappers. If you think I overrated him, fine, but give me reasons for why he doesn't deserve the scores that he has.

    Can you give me examples of unclear or meaningless lyrics that establish a pattern showing he's not that strong in the Lyrics category?

    Can you dispute the fact that he does have a dynamic flow and is able to ride pretty much any beat and at his best delivers better than the majority of rappers out there?

    Do you deny that he does have a history of using impressive wordplay, rhyme schemes, and other rap bells and whistles?

    If people can give legitimate reasons for why his scores should be lowered, I'll lower them and he'll be below the others. But you answer can't just be "He got higher than Jay. He shouldn't be higher than Jay, so his scores should be lower." Like I said, I don't particularly care for Eminem, but it seems some of ya'll are just hating. If my scores are so wildly overrated, you should be able to come up with a myriad of reasons for score changes.

    My ? look at my break down I did all that that's what I'm saying I didn't JUST say his score can't be higher becuz of another rapper I gave break downs on why his scores should be lower or why I didn't make them higher.... Again ppl aren't hating you just did a vast overrating of him which is funny becuz when ppl rate another rapper higher then you then they overrating or rating as a stan but now you vastly overrated a rapper and ppl who rate lower than you are hating this is the problem I had with the one person control the ratings set up from jump which again glad you changed that becuz this rating is ridiculous compared to how you rated others it's like you were easier on Em

    I'm not talking about your breakdowns or scoring. I said those were perfectly fine. I'm talking about your comments that I can't objectively give Em a higher score than Jay. I don't think I was easy on Eminem. There were a couple places I probably could have knocked him more, but didn't (e.g. Catalog), but that same goes for everyone I've done so far. At the end of the day, I scored him the same way I scored everyone. You're just hung up on this because you're biased against him in favor of others. Your statements are proof of that. So you can't question my objectivity while making grossly subjective statements yourself.

    And for the record, I don't have a dog in this race yet. I have albums from Nas, Biggie, Jay, and Pac. I made a lil mixtape with the songs I like from Em. That said, none of them are even close to being my favorite rapper, so I don't have nearly the bias that most of you do. So even if I couldn't be objective like some of you can't, that wouldn't have come into play yet cause I honestly don't care how these 5 are perceived to measure up.
  • 5 Grand
    5 Grand Members Posts: 12,869 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was specifically talking to @5 Grand because he was basing what was fair for Em on the other scores. That's not how this works. You can argue that any of his scores should be changed, but you have to make your argument based on his own merits or lack thereof not on how his score compares to another rapper's score.

    On another note, I guess I'll lower Catalog a point. A lot of people seem to think he doesn't deserve a 5 in Lyrics. Really? We're not talking about what he raps about in that category. We're only talking about how well he is able to deliver whatever message he's speaking on. Em is pretty damn good at that.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I53vWm8dJGk

    If Rakim say the man is nice with it, he's nice with it.[/quote]

    The problem is that interview was from the early 00s when Em was at his pinnacle. In hindsight, he was good at wordplay, similes, metaphors, double entendres, alliteration and slick talk but what good is it if he's rapping in a nasal delivery over a weak beat?

    Even if we accept your, or Rakim's, premise that Eminem is a dope MC he doesn't make the type of music that real Hip Hoppers feel. We'd rather listen to Gang Starr.

    Anyway, here's my ratings

    Lyrics - 4 - Eminem is nice with the wordplay. Or he used to be, I haven't really listened to his new stuff. The reason I don't give him a higher rating is because a lot of times he's just making multis out of words that have nothing to do with each other. I guess Pun and Canibus were the same way. I can think of a lot f rappers that rely less on the use of multis that I'd rather listen to.

    Delivery - 2.5 - I absolutely hate the nasal voice he used at the beginning of his career. Then he switched from the nasal voice to yelling.

    Language - 4- I guess this has to do with lyrics. He's not as creative with the slang as, say, Ghostface but he has some slick lines.

    Catalog - 2 - In all honesty I've never been an Eminem fan so I can't give you a breakdown of each album, but even when he was at his pinnacle from 99-03 I didn't listen to him because I didn't like his music. Not necessarily the beats and rhymes, but the way it all came together.

    Storytelling - 4 - Honestly besides Stan and Guilty Conscious I can't think of any stories he's told. But those two songs were good enough to warrant a 4 rating imo.

    Creativity - 4 - One song I really liked was Sing For The Moment. He was rapping about what it was like to be White and into Hip Hop. There have been many White rappers up to the point that Eminem got put on but they didn't rap about being white, or they tried to avoid the topic, or say that race doesn't matter which it obviously does. If you're a White rapper and you say race doesn't matter you're not fooling anybody.

    Subject Matter - 3.5 - He had a few songs I thought were dope like Stan, Sing For The Moment, Guilty Conscience, White America, Cleaning Out My Closet. He certainly knows how to stay on topic. People say that he raps about killing his wife and mother but honestly I don't know because I haven't listened to every album.

    Collaboration - 0 - Dr Dre discovered him and signed him and he can't put a classic together

    Impact - 5 - He's the highest selling rapper of all time. Everybody knows who he is. I can't front on that.

    Total Score 29
  • The Lonious Monk
    The Lonious Monk Members Posts: 26,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    5 Grand wrote: »

    I was specifically talking to @5 Grand because he was basing what was fair for Em on the other scores. That's not how this works. You can argue that any of his scores should be changed, but you have to make your argument based on his own merits or lack thereof not on how his score compares to another rapper's score.

    On another note, I guess I'll lower Catalog a point. A lot of people seem to think he doesn't deserve a 5 in Lyrics. Really? We're not talking about what he raps about in that category. We're only talking about how well he is able to deliver whatever message he's speaking on. Em is pretty damn good at that.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I53vWm8dJGk

    If Rakim say the man is nice with it, he's nice with it.

    The problem is that interview was from the early 00s when Em was at his pinnacle. In hindsight, he was good at wordplay, similes, metaphors, double entendres, alliteration and slick talk but what good is it if he's rapping in a nasal delivery over a weak beat?

    Even if we accept your, or Rakim's, premise that Eminem is a dope MC he doesn't make the type of music that real Hip Hoppers feel. We'd rather listen to Gang Starr.

    Anyway, here's my ratings

    Lyrics - 4 - Eminem is nice with the wordplay. Or he used to be, I haven't really listened to his new stuff. The reason I don't give him a higher rating is because a lot of times he's just making multis out of words that have nothing to do with each other. I guess Pun and Canibus were the same way. I can think of a lot f rappers that rely less on the use of multis that I'd rather listen to.

    Delivery - 2.5 - I absolutely hate the nasal voice he used at the beginning of his career. Then he switched from the nasal voice to yelling.

    Language - 4- I guess this has to do with lyrics. He's not as creative with the slang as, say, Ghostface but he has some slick lines.

    Catalog - 2 - In all honesty I've never been an Eminem fan so I can't give you a breakdown of each album, but even when he was at his pinnacle from 99-03 I didn't listen to him because I didn't like his music. Not necessarily the beats and rhymes, but the way it all came together.

    Storytelling - 4 - Honestly besides Stan and Guilty Conscious I can't think of any stories he's told. But those two songs were good enough to warrant a 4 rating imo.

    Creativity - 4 - One song I really liked was Sing For The Moment. He was rapping about what it was like to be White and into Hip Hop. There have been many White rappers up to the point that Eminem got put on but they didn't rap about being white, or they tried to avoid the topic, or say that race doesn't matter which it obviously does. If you're a White rapper and you say race doesn't matter you're not fooling anybody.

    Subject Matter - 3.5 - He had a few songs I thought were dope like Stan, Sing For The Moment, Guilty Conscience, White America, Cleaning Out My Closet. He certainly knows how to stay on topic. People say that he raps about killing his wife and mother but honestly I don't know because I haven't listened to every album.

    Collaboration - 0 - Dr Dre discovered him and signed him and he can't put a classic together

    Impact - 5 - He's the highest selling rapper of all time. Everybody knows who he is. I can't front on that.

    Total Score 29[/quote]

    Alright, so I'm a little torn about the Delivery score because I agree with you about his voice. I wouldn't knock it more than .5 or 1 for that because he changes his voice depending on the song and sometimes within a song. The only thing that keeps me from doing that though is that it's purely subjective reasoning. You're knocking him because you don't personally like the voice. If everybody else is cool with his voice, that's not really a good reason to knock him. However, if most of the people in here agree that his voice detracts from his delivery, I'll lower that score.

    I don't really understand you Collaboration score or reasoning. Collaboration is just about how often the rapper works with other high level rappers and how well they measure up beside those rappers when collaborating. You can't possibly think that Em is a 0 in that regard. The fact that many feel he merked Jay alone is enough for his score to not be that absurdly low.
  • Breezy_Kilroy
    Breezy_Kilroy Members Posts: 10,500 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Em delivery has gone to ? . It was good on SSLP but his voice was annoying

    Between MMLP, TES and even Relapse (minus the accents) his delivery and flow was impeccable.
    Right around Recovery and Bad Meets Evil you could tell it was gradually getting worse.

    On MMLP2 it was like he completely forgot how to rap. That whisper ? he be doing, trying to cram every word into a bar and then how he gets gradually louder and starts screaming at the end of a scheme, ? is trash.

    Listening to Em rap today is hard. He even sounds bad a cappella
  • GetoBoy
    GetoBoy Members Posts: 3,879 ✭✭✭✭✭
    GetoBoy wrote: »
    GetoBoy wrote: »

    Well let be the first to tell you that you vastly overrated Em with this one either that or you underrated other rappers becuz Em is not better than those rappers to the point where you gotta adjust their scores just to get close to what you gave Em not pass him just get close to him and that has nothing to do with the names and everything to do with the music....but again that's why I'm glad the avg score is now included

    Again, you're trying to make an argument against the scoring by comparing scores between rappers. That's not how you're supposed to come up with your scores. I scored Em based on his merits. His score is high because he has a lot of 5s not because I was looking at him and thought he was better than the other rappers. If you think I overrated him, fine, but give me reasons for why he doesn't deserve the scores that he has.

    Can you give me examples of unclear or meaningless lyrics that establish a pattern showing he's not that strong in the Lyrics category?

    Can you dispute the fact that he does have a dynamic flow and is able to ride pretty much any beat and at his best delivers better than the majority of rappers out there?

    Do you deny that he does have a history of using impressive wordplay, rhyme schemes, and other rap bells and whistles?

    If people can give legitimate reasons for why his scores should be lowered, I'll lower them and he'll be below the others. But you answer can't just be "He got higher than Jay. He shouldn't be higher than Jay, so his scores should be lower." Like I said, I don't particularly care for Eminem, but it seems some of ya'll are just hating. If my scores are so wildly overrated, you should be able to come up with a myriad of reasons for score changes.

    My ? look at my break down I did all that that's what I'm saying I didn't JUST say his score can't be higher becuz of another rapper I gave break downs on why his scores should be lower or why I didn't make them higher.... Again ppl aren't hating you just did a vast overrating of him which is funny becuz when ppl rate another rapper higher then you then they overrating or rating as a stan but now you vastly overrated a rapper and ppl who rate lower than you are hating this is the problem I had with the one person control the ratings set up from jump which again glad you changed that becuz this rating is ridiculous compared to how you rated others it's like you were easier on Em

    I'm not talking about your breakdowns or scoring. I said those were perfectly fine. I'm talking about your comments that I can't objectively give Em a higher score than Jay. I don't think I was easy on Eminem. There were a couple places I probably could have knocked him more, but didn't (e.g. Catalog), but that same goes for everyone I've done so far. At the end of the day, I scored him the same way I scored everyone. You're just hung up on this because you're biased against him in favor of others. Your statements are proof of that. So you can't question my objectivity while making grossly subjective statements yourself.

    And for the record, I don't have a dog in this race yet. I have albums from Nas, Biggie, Jay, and Pac. I made a lil mixtape with the songs I like from Em. That said, none of them are even close to being my favorite rapper, so I don't have nearly the bias that most of you do. So even if I couldn't be objective like some of you can't, that wouldn't have come into play yet cause I honestly don't care how these 5 are perceived to measure up.

    Aight man I'm not gonna go back and forth over something everybody with ears can see you clearly wrong about that's why I said this should be a avg thing and I'm glad it is it's just funny that when you underrated a rapper and ppl don't agree it's becuz they are stans or aren't objective but when you overate a rapper and ppl don't agree they are haters and not objective basically nobody you don't agree with is objective besides you that statement shows you the bias one becuz that basically says you dismissing what doesn't align with your views as stan, hater, bias, subjective etc... No bruh objectively speaking you wrong and overrated him vastly and it's not a bias towards or for anybody thing it's just a fact thing you keep tryna hide behind nobody is being objective but you cop out is a weak attempt to hide the fact that sum of these ratings you making seem bias as hell and this is one of them sorry that's just the truth
  • The Lonious Monk
    The Lonious Monk Members Posts: 26,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Em delivery has gone to ? . It was good on SSLP but his voice was annoying

    Between MMLP, TES and even Relapse (minus the accents) his delivery and flow was impeccable.
    Right around Recovery and Bad Meets Evil you could tell it was gradually getting worse.

    On MMLP2 it was like he completely forgot how to rap. That whisper ? he be doing, trying to cram every word into a bar and then how he gets gradually louder and starts screaming at the end of a scheme, ? is trash.

    Listening to Em rap today is hard. He even sounds bad a cappella

    So see, now that raises the question on what we prioritize. Are we giving more weight to where a rapper is now or more consideration over their total body of work. Let's say I agree with you that his delivery now is trash, does that invalidate the fact that at one time it was impeccable. Should we be rating the artists according to them at their best or kinda like an average. Damn, maybe I should have had a Consistency category.