Denzel Washington: Don't Blame The Prison System, 'It Starts At The Home'
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So we are at the mercy of our oppressors?
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Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »why are these discussions always so binary
i'd agree character is formed in the home, formed by your environment, by your family. but when those building blocks of character were destroyed/crippled by poverty, chronic unemployment, racism and bad government policy for hundreds of years .... what you get is broken homes for generations
and when you have a justice system that tends to disproportionately police, harass, arrest, punish one segment of the population more than another, you are going to create more broken homes and perpetuate more systemic inequalities
would things be better if parents could do more and ppl made better decisions? yes. obviously. but it's unrealistic to argue the average person can overcome the effects of racism; living in a poor neighborhoods with ? schools and high crime rates; a poor diet..... especially when working class/ poor parents generally lack the time, money and education required to parent efficiently in america
stawp
living in america means appeasing some white folk is required, considering we have to live among quite a few
and don't act like with one false report you couldn't be thrown in prison, or for decades well into the late 40s, after slavery supposedly ended, blk ppl by the thousands arrested and thrown into prison or labor camps for "crimes" such as homelessness or loitering
it's about holding the systems and ppl responsible for the creation and outcome of these systems accountable
So it's unrealistic to expect people to be strong??? and not fall to the traps of their environment. History is what it is and that won't change so we cannot keep using history as an excuse. If a parent cannot effectively disciple their children then it's their fault not the systems and when those children grow up if they continue to ? up then it's their fault not the systems.
THE SYSTEM is unfair but life has never been fair and never will be.
if the system is helping to create and perpetuate broken homes, poverty, etc which produces at risk youth...how can you absolve the system of any blame????
you're oversimplifying the complexities of human agency....failing to properly acknowledge the social forces, relationships, institutions and elements of social structure that work together to shape the thought, behavior and experiences, choices and overall life experiences of ppl
ppl need to be strong, but they also need advocates
I don't believe the system is doing that..... broken homes are the results of adults making choices that pull them apart. Which then increases the odds of their children growing up in poverty.
I THINK you are undervaluing the personal responsibility of black people you are treating us like children. Only children have their thoughts shaped adults make their lives what they want them to be. There are hurdles in life but you don't blame a hurdle for being a hurdle you simply jump over it and if you fall you get up and jump again.
i want blk ppl treated like human beings first...and blk americans treated like american citizens second
same as youth, bio chemistry, genetics, diet, intelligence, upbringing etc can impact what decisions we make
what can limit or strongly influence the opportunities, decisions we are presented with?
government policy .... factors (such as social class, race, gender, ethnicity, subculture, etc.)
civilized human beings take responsibility for themselves and their environments, we are all born with a uniqueness of genetics, intelligence ,history etc etc etc................ BUT we make the best of whatever we are given black people in america are not making the best of ourselves exactly because attitudes like yours seem to predominate.
obviously we have limited opportunities that's part of life no one is born equal and there will never be equality between people.
foh. like slavery, the social advantages and disparities that affect different races and social classes we see in america are not natural. it is a product of crony capitalism, institutionalized racism and inherited privilege. and it’s all held together by a set of rules designed by men. meaning it can be rectified by the actions of men, same as we have to do more to take advantage of the opportunities that are presented to us
these are not mutually exclusive ideas...and naturally if we ignore one facet of the problem it will persist
like others i choose to focus primarily on institutionalized racism because it has been the most consistent and overpowering impediment to blk success in america throughout history...
to say otherwise yes you'd have to argue blk ppl, for whatever reason, are lazier, not as smart, or not as motivated to strive for a better life then our non blk counterparts ....which has not been my experience at all....nor is it supported by any credible evidence
Slavery ended a long time ago, the income disparities we have today are not caused by slavery no Black american born to today was a slave. LEARN TO ACCEPT REALITY . You cannot keep blaming slavery for everything..... Humans divide ourselves into social class
We did so before capitalism
we did so during communism
we do so during socialism
And if a system that is better than capitalism is ever invented we will still have social classes EVEN then. People inherit privileges from their parents that's how life work. LEARN TO ACCEPT REALITY, Nothing you can do will change it. MEN BY NATURE don't change rules to disadvantage themselves. We have to build our own so that our children can enjoy the privileges we leave them but we cannot do that by begging those racist institutions to stop doing what they have always done nor should we continue to engage in unnecessary behavior that gives those institutions more of a justification to harm us. -
@Madame_CJSkywalker
you can cry and stamp your feminist leftist liberal feet all you want nothing is changing, or do you think white people are going to willingly give up the privileges their ancestors conquered to world to give to them??? what are you going to do march and beg whites to stop racism.... how has that been working??? trump got elected.
Your whole way of thinking is flawed and useless. -
^^^^
I dont think anyone is saying "dont try, wait on the white man, blame them and do nothing else."
There are ppl in the hood and projects that go to work everyday.
There are more black ppl who are productive citizens than there are black criminals.
The point is we shouldnt ignore the conditions that have a heavy influence on the negative outcome of impoverished black ppl and something must be done to change or improve it. -
^^^^
I dont think anyone is saying "dont try, wait on the white man, blame them and do nothing else."
There are ppl in the hood and projects that go to work everyday.
There are more black ppl who are productive citizens than there are black criminals.
The point is we shouldnt ignore the conditions that have a heavy influence on the negative outcome of impoverished black ppl and something must be done to change or improve it.
POOR people are not who i am talking about it's the fools who turn to crime because of their relative poverty that are helping fueling the jail system and the oppression of blacks.
SORRY but i don't see america as ignoring the problems of the less fortunate there are countless social programs for those people. How you deal with being less fortunate is an indication of you character and morals and those things are born within the family. -
Damn... I just realized something...
? is in this muthafucka arguing to the SAME point!
On one hand... ? is sayin that the system is ever-powerful and omnipresent and pretty much forces ? to "do what they gotta do" (i.e. live a life of crime and violence due to limited opportunities)...
And on the other hand... ? is sayin that ? just do what they WANT to do and mask it as what they "gotta do" cuz they too stupid to figure out any other way...
So by option 1, if we not STRONG enough to overcome...or by option 2, if we not SMART enough to overcome......BOTH stances would go to say....................We ain't ? as a people...
We's doomed y'all... -
Damn... I just realized something...
? is in this muthafucka arguing to the SAME point!
On one hand... ? is sayin that the system is ever-powerful and omnipresent and pretty much forces ? to "do what they gotta do" (i.e. live a life of crime and violence due to limited opportunities)...
And on the other hand... ? is sayin that ? just do what they WANT to do and mask it as what they "gotta do" cuz they too stupid to figure out any other way...
So by option 1, if we not STRONG enough to overcome...or by option 2, if we not SMART enough to overcome......BOTH stances would go to say....................We ain't ? as a people...
We's doomed y'all...
Don’t forget the highly favored option 3. Wait for the system to change and then we’ll work on ourselves.
-
Damn... I just realized something...
? is in this muthafucka arguing to the SAME point!
On one hand... ? is sayin that the system is ever-powerful and omnipresent and pretty much forces ? to "do what they gotta do" (i.e. live a life of crime and violence due to limited opportunities)...
And on the other hand... ? is sayin that ? just do what they WANT to do and mask it as what they "gotta do" cuz they too stupid to figure out any other way...
So by option 1, if we not STRONG enough to overcome...or by option 2, if we not SMART enough to overcome......BOTH stances would go to say....................We ain't ? as a people...
We's doomed y'all...
Nope, that's what you're saying. -
Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »why are these discussions always so binary
i'd agree character is formed in the home, formed by your environment, by your family. but when those building blocks of character were destroyed/crippled by poverty, chronic unemployment, racism and bad government policy for hundreds of years .... what you get is broken homes for generations
and when you have a justice system that tends to disproportionately police, harass, arrest, punish one segment of the population more than another, you are going to create more broken homes and perpetuate more systemic inequalities
would things be better if parents could do more and ppl made better decisions? yes. obviously. but it's unrealistic to argue the average person can overcome the effects of racism; living in a poor neighborhoods with ? schools and high crime rates; a poor diet..... especially when working class/ poor parents generally lack the time, money and education required to parent efficiently in america
stawp
living in america means appeasing some white folk is required, considering we have to live among quite a few
and don't act like with one false report you couldn't be thrown in prison, or for decades well into the late 40s, after slavery supposedly ended, blk ppl by the thousands arrested and thrown into prison or labor camps for "crimes" such as homelessness or loitering
it's about holding the systems and ppl responsible for the creation and outcome of these systems accountable
So it's unrealistic to expect people to be strong??? and not fall to the traps of their environment. History is what it is and that won't change so we cannot keep using history as an excuse. If a parent cannot effectively disciple their children then it's their fault not the systems and when those children grow up if they continue to ? up then it's their fault not the systems.
THE SYSTEM is unfair but life has never been fair and never will be.
if the system is helping to create and perpetuate broken homes, poverty, etc which produces at risk youth...how can you absolve the system of any blame????
you're oversimplifying the complexities of human agency....failing to properly acknowledge the social forces, relationships, institutions and elements of social structure that work together to shape the thought, behavior and experiences, choices and overall life experiences of ppl
ppl need to be strong, but they also need advocates
I don't believe the system is doing that..... broken homes are the results of adults making choices that pull them apart. Which then increases the odds of their children growing up in poverty.
I THINK you are undervaluing the personal responsibility of black people you are treating us like children. Only children have their thoughts shaped adults make their lives what they want them to be. There are hurdles in life but you don't blame a hurdle for being a hurdle you simply jump over it and if you fall you get up and jump again.
i want blk ppl treated like human beings first...and blk americans treated like american citizens second
same as youth, bio chemistry, genetics, diet, intelligence, upbringing etc can impact what decisions we make
what can limit or strongly influence the opportunities, decisions we are presented with?
government policy .... factors (such as social class, race, gender, ethnicity, subculture, etc.)
civilized human beings take responsibility for themselves and their environments, we are all born with a uniqueness of genetics, intelligence ,history etc etc etc................ BUT we make the best of whatever we are given black people in america are not making the best of ourselves exactly because attitudes like yours seem to predominate.
obviously we have limited opportunities that's part of life no one is born equal and there will never be equality between people.
foh. like slavery, the social advantages and disparities that affect different races and social classes we see in america are not natural. it is a product of crony capitalism, institutionalized racism and inherited privilege. and it’s all held together by a set of rules designed by men. meaning it can be rectified by the actions of men, same as we have to do more to take advantage of the opportunities that are presented to us
these are not mutually exclusive ideas...and naturally if we ignore one facet of the problem it will persist
like others i choose to focus primarily on institutionalized racism because it has been the most consistent and overpowering impediment to blk success in america throughout history...
to say otherwise yes you'd have to argue blk ppl, for whatever reason, are lazier, not as smart, or not as motivated to strive for a better life then our non blk counterparts ....which has not been my experience at all....nor is it supported by any credible evidence
Slavery ended a long time ago, the income disparities we have today are not caused by slavery no Black american born to today was a slave. LEARN TO ACCEPT REALITY . You cannot keep blaming slavery for everything..... Humans divide ourselves into social class
We did so before capitalism
we did so during communism
we do so during socialism
And if a system that is better than capitalism is ever invented we will still have social classes EVEN then. People inherit privileges from their parents that's how life work. LEARN TO ACCEPT REALITY, Nothing you can do will change it. MEN BY NATURE don't change rules to disadvantage themselves. We have to build our own so that our children can enjoy the privileges we leave them but we cannot do that by begging those racist institutions to stop doing what they have always done nor should we continue to engage in unnecessary behavior that gives those institutions more of a justification to harm us.
men change rules when pressured to...
never put all the blame on slavery. there was redlining, racial steering, discrimination in the labor market, discrimination in the lending industry, etc
and we've tried to build our own only to have is sabotaged or destroyed
not to mention how our government has basically built and kept the white middle class afloat
but ok...
i'm down for demanding self accountability from blk ppl... not sure how that would seriously address things like discrimination in the housing market and the over policing of our communities when most blk ppl are hard working, responsible and law abiding citizens.... and i'm not sure how self accountability can reverse the ways poverty, poor nutrition, witnessing violence,etc impacts brain function
how do you account for the aforementioned? -
Damn... I just realized something...
? is in this muthafucka arguing to the SAME point!
On one hand... ? is sayin that the system is ever-powerful and omnipresent and pretty much forces ? to "do what they gotta do" (i.e. live a life of crime and violence due to limited opportunities)...
And on the other hand... ? is sayin that ? just do what they WANT to do and mask it as what they "gotta do" cuz they too stupid to figure out any other way...
So by option 1, if we not STRONG enough to overcome...or by option 2, if we not SMART enough to overcome......BOTH stances would go to say....................We ain't ? as a people...
We's doomed y'all...
Nope, that's what you're saying.
exactly. lmmfao -
@Madame_CJSkywalker
How the ? are black people going to pressure anything on a macro-level ??? we are 13% of the population and on top of that we are not living up to our economic potential because we keep blaming ? on slavery and "the white man".
I don't buy the redlining excuse because even if blacks were forced into less desirable areas of major cities we did not have to turn those areas into violent slums. WE NEED MORE SELF ACCOUNTABILITY.
IF BLACK women would stop feeding their ? children MacDonald and learn how to COOK black kids would have less nutritional issues. once again WE NEED MORE SELF ACCOUNTABILITY.
If we want to stop the over policing of black people we have to stop doing crime and especially violence because it attracts police attention, once again WE NEED MORE SELF ACCOUNTABILITY.
Black people have addressed discrimination about as much as we can already. DISCRIMINATION WILL HAPPEN in the private sector because people are free to chose who that want to hire or not. LEARN TO DEAL WITH REALITY. You have no moral right to tell a business who they and cannot hire.
If black people would start practicing more self accountability the effect of things like housing discrimination would be minimal. I don't want to hear about the good black people right now they are not the problem the problem is the ain't ? ? and the black liberal intellectuals who defend their degeneracy.
yes black have built great communities in the past and had them destroyed.... but you know what if you burn down my house next time i will build a ? castle. STOP MAKING EXCUSES. -
I think we all agree, it starts at home...
-
It's ironic that a black feminist like @Madame_CJSkywalker and a low-life ? bag ain't worth a squirrel ? ? like that ? ass ? capital b agree with each other???? @Madame_CJSkywalker YOU DON'T see how your line of thinking is supporting the real oppression of black women
? like him partly exist because of people like you if people like me had it my way ? like him would be in prison where he belongs. -
It's ironic that a black feminist like @Madame_CJSkywalker and a low-life ? bag ain't worth a squirrel ? ? like that ? ass ? capital b agree with each other???? @Madame_CJSkywalker YOU DON'T see how your line of thinking is supporting the real oppression of black women
? like him partly exist because of people like you if people like me had it my way ? like him would be in prison where he belongs.
you believe prostitution should be kept illegal? -
Damn... I just realized something...
? is in this muthafucka arguing to the SAME point!
On one hand... ? is sayin that the system is ever-powerful and omnipresent and pretty much forces ? to "do what they gotta do" (i.e. live a life of crime and violence due to limited opportunities)...
And on the other hand... ? is sayin that ? just do what they WANT to do and mask it as what they "gotta do" cuz they too stupid to figure out any other way...
So by option 1, if we not STRONG enough to overcome...or by option 2, if we not SMART enough to overcome......BOTH stances would go to say....................We ain't ? as a people...
We's doomed y'all...
Nope, that's what you're saying.
Nah... The underlying implications of what's being stated in this thread is saying exactly that...
And don't you dare tell me about puttin ? in proper context...because those who are saying Denzel was flat-out wrong for what he said and how he said it didn't bother to contextualize his comments... -
Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »It's ironic that a black feminist like @Madame_CJSkywalker and a low-life ? bag ain't worth a squirrel ? ? like that ? ass ? capital b agree with each other???? @Madame_CJSkywalker YOU DON'T see how your line of thinking is supporting the real oppression of black women
? like him partly exist because of people like you if people like me had it my way ? like him would be in prison where he belongs.
you believe prostitution should be kept illegal?
from a legal standpoint it's not the prostitution i have a problem with it's the pimping i despise...... hoe money should be long to hoes not pimps. -
Damn... I just realized something...
? is in this muthafucka arguing to the SAME point!
On one hand... ? is sayin that the system is ever-powerful and omnipresent and pretty much forces ? to "do what they gotta do" (i.e. live a life of crime and violence due to limited opportunities)...
And on the other hand... ? is sayin that ? just do what they WANT to do and mask it as what they "gotta do" cuz they too stupid to figure out any other way...
So by option 1, if we not STRONG enough to overcome...or by option 2, if we not SMART enough to overcome......BOTH stances would go to say....................We ain't ? as a people...
We's doomed y'all...
Nope, that's what you're saying.
Nah... The underlying implications of what's being stated in this thread is saying exactly that...
And don't you dare tell me about puttin ? in proper context...because those who are saying Denzel was flat-out wrong for what he said and how he said it didn't bother to contextualize his comments...
Your interpretation is wrong, as is your assumption of believing that people didn't contextualize what Denzel said. If you read some of these posts / tweets, you'll see an acknowledgement of where people agreed with part of what he said and disagreed with other parts of what he said.
Unfortunately, in this day and age, a lot of people seem to believe that if you disagree with something somebody says (especially their heroes), then you're automatically disagreeing with them as a person, everything they ever said, ever stood for, their middle name and some more ? .
Y'all g'ahead tho - it's interesting watching the assumptions y'all making. -
Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »It's ironic that a black feminist like @Madame_CJSkywalker and a low-life ? bag ain't worth a squirrel ? ? like that ? ass ? capital b agree with each other???? @Madame_CJSkywalker YOU DON'T see how your line of thinking is supporting the real oppression of black women
? like him partly exist because of people like you if people like me had it my way ? like him would be in prison where he belongs.
you believe prostitution should be kept illegal?
from a legal standpoint it's not the prostitution i have a problem with it's the pimping i despise...... hoe money should be long to hoes not pimps.
the sex trade is always going to be around
criminalizing the sex industry is why there is rampant exploitation and abuse
another government policy that makes problems worst -
Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »It's ironic that a black feminist like @Madame_CJSkywalker and a low-life ? bag ain't worth a squirrel ? ? like that ? ass ? capital b agree with each other???? @Madame_CJSkywalker YOU DON'T see how your line of thinking is supporting the real oppression of black women
? like him partly exist because of people like you if people like me had it my way ? like him would be in prison where he belongs.
you believe prostitution should be kept illegal?
from a legal standpoint it's not the prostitution i have a problem with it's the pimping i despise...... hoe money should be long to hoes not pimps.
the sex trade is always going to be around
criminalizing the sex industry is why there is rampant exploitation and abuse
another government policy that makes problems worst
You are cool with pimping always being around but have an issue with racial discrimination in housing being around?? -
Damn... I just realized something...
? is in this muthafucka arguing to the SAME point!
On one hand... ? is sayin that the system is ever-powerful and omnipresent and pretty much forces ? to "do what they gotta do" (i.e. live a life of crime and violence due to limited opportunities)...
And on the other hand... ? is sayin that ? just do what they WANT to do and mask it as what they "gotta do" cuz they too stupid to figure out any other way...
So by option 1, if we not STRONG enough to overcome...or by option 2, if we not SMART enough to overcome......BOTH stances would go to say....................We ain't ? as a people...
We's doomed y'all...
Nope, that's what you're saying.
Nah... The underlying implications of what's being stated in this thread is saying exactly that...
And don't you dare tell me about puttin ? in proper context...because those who are saying Denzel was flat-out wrong for what he said and how he said it didn't bother to contextualize his comments...
Don’t bother, it’s to late. Dumb ? linked up, they’ll overwhelm you!
